#dabi is a monument to endeavour's sins

[justatalkingface]

Do you also think that the image of the crying child impoverishes the story ?

The fact that the MC wants to save that crying child inside "his" villain bothers me. It is a form of infantilization which seems to only benefit to the heroic figure and prevents the villain from being a great villain. The past symbolized by the crying child echoes to the MC's own past and is adressed to our nostalgic feeling, the reader remembering Izuku who cried in chapter 1 when he was told that he cannot be a hero. Izuku will enable Tomura/Tenko to act like a hero too by making him side with him, but what do we do with the villain Tomura Shigaraki himself ? What about the feeling of awe ?

Same for Dabi : the crying child is always inside him (little Toya appears when Shoto "beats" Dabi, he wore the same clothes he wore while he waited for his dad who never came), but it is only significative for Enji : it means that he has to atone for his sins by being there for his child. Endeavor isn't even scared when he sees the horrific and alarming state of Dabi, he just has to be the dad who didn't come to see his little boy who was always crying (where is the tension between life and death?)

So... instead of being fascinating threats who force a society (in which the individuals define their own self by the nature of their quirk) to face its most harmful consequences, the villains' infantilization turn them into tools so that the heroic figure can shine by saving an innocent child. It's just what I think, and in general I find it quite problematic that this symbol of the crying child seems to mean - in the story - that one can be saved only on condition of crying, but it's another issue

Oh yeah.

I've said it before, but my biggest frustration with Shigaraki's story (once they finally started it properly, anyways) is the way they pivoted from his fascinating growth as a villain for that.

For so much of the story, Shigaraki stagnated, being built up, theoretically, as the future ultimate villain, but shown as this ineffectual man-child too incompetent to really be a threat for Izuku the way he was supposed to be. Then, finally, he actually, genuinely starts to grow as a villain, as a threat. He suprasses his fading mentor, mirroring Izuku again with how he took on All Might's torch, only twisted villainously with Shigaraki actively rejecting his old mentor for his old views.

Then AFO just... turned it around on him, after Shigaraki explictly rejects/destroys his influence/presence in his mind, and it's capped off by Deku, the MC, seeing the crying child.

The last couple of arcs before that had all had a major focus in building up Shigaraki, like I said, not only as a villain and a threat, but as a character in his own right, finally showing his independent ability to stand on his own as a threat, and just like that Hori destroyed all that work like a child toppling a tower of blocks.

Suddenly, Shigaraki wasn't a threat, wasn't a man out to destroy the world, wasn't Izuku's equal and opposite. All of a sudden, Tenko was just a crying little boy, helpless to do anything to stop Mean Old AFO from using his body to perform his dastardly deeds. It turned him, as you said, into a victim, against all his development, against everything Hori had been building towards.

It was part of a shift Hori had thrown at us suddenly, taking the story from a story of shades of grey to simple black and white: Izuku, Deku, was good, simply, primitively good, without any other motive or characterization than native goodness. AFO, who throughout the entire story had been a mystery turducken hinting at depth and excitement, suddenly was revealed to be perhaps the most one dimensional character in the story, who was evil... just because.

And Shigaraki turned into nothing more than a victim, sadly abused, too helpless to actually do anything to decide his own fate, and thus being viable to save. And yes, I know that Hori did another turns table twist on us, and Shigaraki has suddenly revealed to be the 'true villain' yet again, but since one-dimensional Deku keeps insisting he needs to be saved, it's only a matter of time before Shigaraki is revealed to only be Tenko, only a victim, once again, and everybody's hate will be reserved only for AFO, thus robbing Shigaraki of all the agency he had been building up throughout the series, taking away the depth and serious of all the crimes he has committed, of all the lives he has killed, because he's no longer allowed to be responsible for them.

And it's almost worse what's happening to Dabi, for all that Shigarki's change is far more sudden and drastic on the face of it.

You see, I'm angry at Shigaraki because Hori did this sudden U-turn and undid all the work he did on the man; Shigaraki's story could have been spun as a, 'poor brainwashed sap' kind of thing, is the problem, but Hori decided to build him up as the villain ascendant in his own right instead. Then, suddenly, he switched it almost violently into the role of victim out of nowhere and ruining all Shigaraki's hard fought growth. Shigaraki spent almost his entire life under AFO's thumb, ignorant of so much of the real world, so isolated that he didn't even know how to be a real person, which made his actual choice to be a villain so big, and Hori taking that away from him so shitty.

Dabi, though? Before the story had even started, Dabi had already made his choice. Shigaraki stumbled there blindly, while Dabi walked there with eyes wide open. He blames Endeavour, but he doesn't excuse himself, he doesn't say he should be rescued; he admits freely that he is a terrible person, a villain, a monster, even. Dabi has no illusions about who or what he is. He doesn't want to go back. He doesn't want to be saved.

And the fact the story is going through so much to set him up to be saved, no matter what he actually thinks about, is honestly tragic.

Dabi is, fundamentally, Endeavour's wrong doing made manifest, the monument to his sins. He's the dark mirror to Shoto's story, if Izuku hadn't saved him, the twisted reflection of Hawks; all of these characters and more are orbiting around Endeavour, and all of them sinking as the SSS Endeavour's Original Story sinks into the sea, dragging them down with it.

It gets even worse because if Hori infantilizes Dabi like he did Shigaraki, like he's shaping up to do... who is he going to blame? The entire point of doing that is throw the blame, the karmic burden of what that person has done, onto someone else to make to make them seem better. It makes sense for Shigaraki because AFO is bad, is supposed to be, and there was a way that could have made sense awhile ago, but Dabi? If Dabi's crimes were going to be blamed on someone else, it would naturally be Endeavour (even though Dabi's firmly insistent that he's doing this of his own will), but Hori has made it clear he doesn't want to blame Endeavour for anything. So who is going to take the blame so Shoto can have soba with his big brother, without having to subject anyone to any complicated questions of things like, 'should Shoto forgive him?', or 'does Shoto's insistence on saving his brother just because he's his brother actually damage his growth and/or make the world they live in worse?' or anything like that?

AFO, I guess. He's already been randomly inserted into Debi's back story, so that's the natural option, to blame AFO for what Dabi did just like they're trying to blame him for what Shigaraki did. That way Endeavour can be redeemed without issue, Dabi can be 'saved', somehow, and Shoto can have that soba at last.

Sigh. Hori's sudden and almost bizarre insistence in trying to redeem all the fan favorites instead of just letting them be bad people is one of the biggest flaws of the story, and turning them into pure, helpless children is just an insult to them, as characters and as people.

[justatalkingface]

Do you consider analyzing the villains one day (the main trio or in general) ? It seems that I saw somewhere that you wanted to. If that's the case, I would like to read your thoughts. This manga does not bring me joy anymore (it's quite funny for a story which is supposed to be optimistic to a fault), but I keep a close eye on the villain trio's evolution who are the only characters who make me stay, even if I have some problems with the way the mangaka wrote them recently.

Hmm. I did this big post on Shigaraki awhile ago, so let's ignore him, but let's talk about.... Himiko, Dabi, which are the rest of the big villain trio of the series, and then a bit about AFO and how the villains in general lately. I did a LOV post awhile ago, but that was more focused on how Hori was showing them, so there's still something to talk about.

So... Himiko. I've said this before, but I think there's wasted potential in how her character could have been spun, not as someone totally crazy but someone in dire straights being actively corrupted by her situation, but, it's not like the crazy serial killer archetype is bad.

The problem with Himiko isn't that she kills people, the problem isn't even that she likes it, the problem is she, by the time we meet her, is fully into it, fully living in a world all her own where things work different for her than everyone else, and this is never really... explored satisfyingly.

If we met her someplace before that, where she's, maybe, addicted to the killing, but not committed to it, there would be this interesting contrast where we see her morals, her old morals, conflicting with her finally unleashed desires, and they eat away at who she was over time, like we see in Tokyo Ghoul with Kankei.

But there still plenty of ways to work off a truly crazy character; I think what Himiko could use is a couple of good conversations. It's too late now, but what her character could have really used is a conversation, or better yet multiple conversations, about what she thinks about the world, with people who don't share her viewpoint. And she does that, but... she actually doesn't. A conversation, you see, is two sides talking to each other, and that never seems to happen with Himiko.

One side is always stonewalling the other, either the hero just blanket labeling her as a villain, without really acknowledging the depth of the issues there, or that there's a method to her madness, or that she has some good points mixed in with her crazy, or with Toga ignoring everything that doesn't fit with her world views with all the energy of a child going, 'La la, I'm not listening!' One sides shouts 'Killing is wrong', and the other shouts something about love, or how she wants to live with her friends, and nothing is happening.

The manga wants for this to happen, and acts like it has occurred sometimes, but it never follows through: Toga is stunned that a hero will kill, and that she could die? Where the hero pointing out that she has killed their friends?

Hori has been setting up this dynamic with her and Ochako as this sort of light and dark versions of each other, off the fact they both love Izuku? (And for the purposes of this, let's ignore that, A, that reduces their relationship to a giant chick fight over a guy, and B, we don't even know if Ochako actually still has a crush on Izuku anymore.) Fine. Then talk about it. Have them talk about what love means to them, compare and contrast their views, develop it. Hell, delve more into what Izuku thinks about it, even, that this child who has been stomped down on his entire life has someone who wants to be with him now, even if it's a crazed villain.

All of this and more could have been interesting things to talk about, develop, but it never happens. Himiko is made out of this wasted potential, a theoretically interesting character that never got to live up to what she could have been.

Dabi, meanwhile, is almost the opposite: Dabi, character wise, is good. He has depth to him, but fundamentally he's a simple character with simple goals, narratively and as a person, and he's meeting them.

Dabi wants revenge. Dabi wants to destroy his father, everything he's built and everything he's ever loved. Dabi is a hollow shell of a human being who lives for a single purpose, and defines himself by his abuser. He knows this this fact, and accepts this; there's no illusions with him about who he is. Dabi is a monument to Endeavor's sins, nothing more, and that's all he really wants to be.

There's more to him to that, of course; he cares for his friends, and mourns Twice's death, even if he is physically incapable of crying, even if he refuses to admit it, but Dabi, as a person, has been made for that one single purpose. Literally, by both the writer and the character himself, his entire life is designed to revolve around vengeance.

And on that point, he's doing exactly what he's supposed to. Dabi's problem is that, at some point between the original plan and now, the world he lived in has changed, and Endeavour's story is different now, cleaner, than it should have been. Everything about him is a testament to Endeavour and what he's done, and it's just... no one seems to care. The way the characters talk about him now is either, A, 'God damn it stop burning everything', or B, 'Touya, stop whining about how hard your life was and have some soba with Shoto already'.

Dabi is a monument to Endeavour's sins, but when no one cares about those sins, his entire purpose starts falling flat. He's doing the right things, he's saying the right words, but it doesn't matter if Hori won't allow him to have a point.

And finally, let's wrap up with something about the villains in general; this is something I touched on when I talked about Shigaraki (although ironically it was about how he got past that point at the time), that a good villain is one you're afraid of. A villain drives the plot, in many ways is the plot. You can think they're cool or stan them, but to really sell them as a character, there needs to be one simple ingredient: fear.

When a villain does something, you should be afraid of them, even if only the tiniest of amounts. It needs to make you tense, concerned, make you wonder what are they going to do next? What is their next move? What damage will they cause? Is someone going to die?

The patron saint of showing how much Hori has dropped with this ball is AFO: think back to Kamino. Remember how the students risked their lives to go and rescue their classmate, remember when this man in a mask appears and his mere presence is enough to make them freeze in place. It was tense, gripping, because we didn't know what was going to happen. We didn't know if everyone would make it out of there.

We didn't know if All Might would win.

All For One's simple, gloating speech in Kaminio was enough to fill the manga with more uncertainty than there ever has been.

Let's look at AFO now. He... he plots. He schemes. He chortles, constantly, about how brilliant his plans are, even as they fall apart around him, only to pull out yet another plan to be toppled.

I'm not afraid of him. I'm not worried about him, or what he's going to do. I don't doubt for a minute that Deku is going to beat him, and honestly I'm not concerned he's going to kill anyone we're supposed to care about. I'm just pissed off that he won't shut up for five minutes and actually do something. AFO, as of this manga chapter, is technically a lot stronger than he was in Kamino. He's whole and healthy, for the moment, while in Kaminio he was literally on life support, yet it was only in Kamino that I was truly worried.

This is what has been happening for awhile now, and that's why the villains seem to be worse than they used to be. And I think I can see why: Hori wants to make his heroes seem better, so he's putting them against stronger villains, but he seems to be operating under a misunderstanding.

You don't make heroes great by making their villains pathetic, true. But you don't make them great by making them strong, either; at the end of the day this is a story that is trying to be sold to us, and all the power levels in world don't make a story. You make heroes great by making their villains great. When a villain is great, threatening, gaining victory over them is triumphant. The hero has earned that victory, and that's what we yearn to see: the struggle. That is what we want, that is what we cheer for. Izuku has more genuinely struggled more training for UA than he has fighting against the power of AFO; beating up SFO doesn't make him great, just over powered. Hori makes great fight scenes, but it's more than just fight scenes, is the thing. It's a thousand smaller pieces before, during, and after the conflict, supporting reality of both sides, what they've done and what they're doing, and all of them adding up to make an atmosphere that draws us in, that makes the story seem real. And that's just not there anymore.