#cw butchphobia

[aoifereal]

Don't like venting about this stuff normally but I'm very frustrated by this, so. I saw a transfem butch complaining online about how being misgendered for being butch and the comments were sucks and the comments are full of people effectively saying "that's just how it is for butches, what did you expect?".

That's so rude on so many levels. Do you think this trans butch doesn't know that people assumptions about gender? It's the same condescension that happens whenever a trans woman talks about women's issues, the same deep-rooted cissexism. People don't view trans women's womanhoods to be as real as cis womens womanhoods so they assume we can't possibly understand what it's like to have an experience a (in this case, butch) woman would have. It's the same logic that leads people to say "welcome to being a woman" as if a trans woman is not aware of misogyny and has not faced any real examples of it, despite trans women facing misogyny and transmisogny well before people start to acknowledge us as women.

Additionally, why do you think any trans person would need it explained to them that strangers will make gendered assumptions about you. That's our whole lives! I'm sure most trans butches had a more feminine phase (in the same way many cis butches conform to femininity for some time due to the extreme pressures placed on all women to) and even in those phases we are very aware of gendered assumptions! Because we have to be to stay safe in public!

In this same forum there's a post from a day ago where a (presumably cis, but what matters is that people will assume that because she didn't say) butch complains about the exact same thing and everyone in the comments is being nice to her and saying they understand and they're sorry that it sucks she's being misgendered. It's such naked transmisogny to immediately dismiss and condescend to a trans woman in a way that you do not do when you're talking to cis women.

One cis woman was going on and on about how some trans women find it nice when people are misogynistic towards them because it affirms their gender and why doesnt op just take a similar approach to butchphobia :). Now I do get the latter part of this a bit because I will say "it is because of my masculine lesbian swag" in my head when I get misgendered but it pisses me off when people suggest trans women like experiencing misogyny. Sometimes particularly early transition women joke about it because if you don't laugh you'll cry but facing misogyny isn't fun for anyone. Cis people fucking love this stuff though because it allows them to continue thinking of trans women as acceptable targets for misogyny.

Also full of people saying "you should just assert your womanhood when you get misgendered" which is crazy to me because it's dangerous for cis butches let alone transfem butches! That's insane advice to give someone and just shows you're checked out of reality. Women get killed over this shit dude. Or people not getting how misgendering is used as a patriarchal tool of control. Not understanding that a misgendering has a threat of violence behind it a significant portion of the time when you're a trans woman.

It's just all wild, and no listening to the several trans women trying to explain why the things they were saying were lacking in understanding. Very disappointing to see lesbians say this stuff.

[trans-androgyne]

Genuinely getting the feeling that people think it’s less hurtful to be called a dyke than to be called a faggot. And that it’s less violent to misgender a trans man/masc than to misgender a trans woman/fem. Feels like shit, I’m tired of butch and transmasc struggles being downplayed.

[punkeropercyjackson]

'Problematic things were considered good in the past so you're puritan for critizing them!'Oh yeah,by WHICH people were they considered good?Quickly🧍🏽‍♀️

[ghoul-butch]

oh my god twitter is currently doing wide-scale transmasc lesbian he/him lesbian and boydyke discourse again and i do not know why i came back to it lol.

and saying "i'm only saying these things cause it takes away from real butch struggle"? yeah, not how that works surprisingly enough! a transmasc butch's life is a butch life no matter if they go "too far" in their transition and you start calling them a man to invalidate them. how about i kill you.

[butchspace]

Can we talk about how dangerous it can be be a butch that's a minor, whose mom is only 20 years older than you? That's the boat I'm in. My mom tries to force femininity on me, buying me dresses and skirts and patterned shirts, none of which I'll ever wear and if I ask why girls have to do anything that society tells girls they have to do, her answer is "because we're girls" every time. I feel like I have to suppress my masculinity that makes me feel comfortable and myself. Idk what to do.

I am so sorry you are that situation Anon, it sounds extremely dangerous and with all my heart I wish I could help you out of it. I’ve been racking my brain for awhile with advice to give you but all I can think of is that wearing things like boxers/briefs, using “mens” deodorants, and subtler things that you can do under your clothing may help. Followers, do you have any better advice to help this baby butch survive? -Mod T 

[punkeropercyjackson]

Terfs are so funny because they'll be like 'femininity is a prison and shackles women are brainwashed into and can never truly be empowering or enjoyable for anyone other than men' but then aren't even butch and freak out at actual butches.The fabled butchest girls society can handle before they start getting scared

@thisismisogynoir

[tworocks]

always a surprise to see a trans woman who runs that traitor grift against her siblings but never a surprise to see she’s rich, white, and butchphobic

[daddy-doms-are-gross]

CW: questions about being stone, please delete if you're uncomfortable! I'm not completely stone but there are definitely times (days or weeks at a time) when I just don't want to be touched sexually and/or want to keep my clothes on during sex. I don't mind it and my gf is supportive but I sometimes worry that this could be unhealthy, like I'm reinforcing this aversion by not engaging in it. Do you ever get this worry? Is it legit, or is it some sort of internalized homophobia/butchphobia?

i’m basically at the point where it’s very, very rare for me to even take off my shirt during sex and even rarer to invite sexual touching of any kind. i can tell you that the reasons behind that vary from person to person, but for me personally it’s not at all about having bad self-esteem or any kind of issue with my self-worth. i struggle with intense dysphoria from day to day and the reframing of my sexuality and sexual expression assists with alleviating that. my vulnerability doesn’t come from employing my body in expected ways, but from giving all that i can to my partner and making sure her needs are completely met. i tend to conceptualize my hands/shoulders/hips as more relevant to my sexuality than my genitals and i’m completely satisfied with that. 

people are allowed to have different opinions and understandings of their own bodies, and different people are going to be averse to different things. mainstream sex ed tends to give us a very limited set of expectations for sex (i.e. we should expect penetration, we should like oral sex, we should want these very specific areas of our body touched in specific ways, etc). Discomfort with your body or with sexual touching can come from an unhealthy place or be rooted in trauma, and it’s important to acknowledge that, but if you are comfortable and satisfied with how you engage with your own sexuality then it’s likely just how you experience sexual expression. some people are just going to be geared towards giving and derive most of their pleasure from it, and that’s good so long as they have a partner who understands and embraces that.

[punkeropercyjackson]

Really the victimhood behind terfism is just that and it's motivation along with transmisogyny.Victimhood.'Sex based oppression' is the logic but they fall silent when you point out white women have systematic privilege over moc,especially black men and always have.'Misogyny is universal'but so's literally every bigotry-Allistic women have privilege over autistic women,nonblack women have privilege over black women,etc.Lack of intersectionality is their forte because their strength is victimhood,gender isn't real so it's all they have!The jealousy terfitas have towards trans women goes crazy,because trans women are always forced to be men but they're actually women and not allowed to be and that's the ultimate form of misogyny!It happens to butches and black women too for the same reason-We're seen as 'too male' under white supremacy.Yet even with that,we create and pull off womanhood infinitely better and in a more revolutionary way that gets us wayyyyy more persecuted by the patriarchy than terfies and that's why they hate us,transfems most of all!Discrimination is all they all want and that's very sad because they're doing exactly what society and The Man™️ wants them too and it's so comfortable for them they feel like they're rebels without challenging or standing up to anything.Las punkeras lo hacen mejor,lo siento Karens!!!!

[punkeropercyjackson]

Guys i just saw someone say 'How in the hell is Annabeth 'lesbian-coded' other than not being the height of femininity' and they had a Bakugou icon and Miraculous Ladybug as their top posts,

[butchspace]

I feel like I'm too fat and ugly to get a girlfriend. I know part of the feelings are dye to internalized butchphobia, but I don't know how to make myself feel worthy of being loved.

**Cw internalized fatphobia** I know how that feels, my main advice to find other fat butch folks that you find attractive and think hard about why you find them attractive.It’s really really hard though to overcome that though, and so many folks struggle in similar ways. Followers, do you have any advice? -Mod T —Opps sorry for the mistagging folks! I think I was reading another ask when doing that part! 

[butchspace]

hey, I'm butch af and I'm told that I can be intimidating and I don't want to scare people, I love people so much!! and I want to make more friends!! how can I be less intimidating? I smile at people but I don't know what else to do - I am tall and wear baggy clothing and stuff but I can't really change any of that! do you have any recommendations?

Oh boy do I feel this! This is like... my entire life experience tbh. Humor is the key in my experience. Play yourself off as sort of a “goof” at first. One thing that can also help is by centering the conversation on other people by asking them questions and follow up questions afterwards. I dunno if this is true in your case but let me tell you, ADHD makes it SO MUCH harder to not be seen as intimidating. :/ There a lot of butchphobia at play in the situations you’re dealing with and I am so sorry that you’ve also had to deal with this flavor of it. -Mod T