#cudgel cormac

[cippicat]

What happened to Shay after Rogue ?

Disclaimer: I don't like AC Rogue because the game was supposed to show the point of view of the Templars but, and I am sorry to say, it Failed. Rogue showed that there isn't black and white but different grey areas and that the Templars are devious people who took advantage of a traumatised man in order to destroy the Assassins (yes also Colonel Monro)

Let's go back to our protagonist.

After the events of Rogue, and the prelude of Unity, a lot of people wanted to know what was going to happen with Shay Patric Cormac.

Do you think that Ubisoft gave us answers? Absolutely not (or as I say "Ma manco per il xazzo").

This is my personal theory

After the murder of Charles Dorian, Shay recovered the Precursor Box and probably returned it to the Templars in the USA.

After Charles made fun of him because Connor was wiping out the Templars in the colonies, it seemed that Shay suggested that the Templars should start a Revolution of their own.

That's quite hypocritical for a man who wanted to protect people. This declaration led me to think that probably his mental health wasn't at the highest. However in the AC Unity's game there wasn't any evidence that Shay was involved with the French Revolution or with Germain.

I think that Arno knew that it was Shay who killed his father but he didn't try to find him because revenge only led to a bad path.

And

Between a young man of 30 years old, with a sword of Eden, and an old man of 60/65 year old who will win? That's a very stupid question.

I think that after the murder of Charles, Shay come back to the USA and lived with his wife (??) and teenage son, and helped the Templars of New York to gain their power back. But he no longer went on missions because he developed arthritis thanks to his travel to Antarctic 😅.

He didn't try to hunt down Connor in order to avenge Haytham, because he respected the boy, and probably because the Assassins were the majority when he came back from France.

I think that he already had a teenage son for this reasons:

In the novel "The Last Descendants", his grandson Cudgel Cormac said that he has been trained by his grandfather. Shay was 47 at the end of Rogue, the novel took place during the American Civil War (1861-65) and Cudgel is described as a young man. Unless Shay lived to be 100 years old, the only way he could have trained Cudgel is that his own son was already a teenager at the end of AC Rogue.

Was he a good father? Probably not. Maybe he was a good grandfather for Cudgel.

I came up to this theory thanks to Jacob and Lydia Frye. Jacob became a grandfather when he was 46 years old, and took care and trained his granddaughter with the help of Evie. Of course his son was a teenager during the events of JTR DLC. Shay probably became a grandfather when he turned 50 years old.

I think that Shay died peacefully surrounded by his family. He never abandoned the Templar's cause even though the Templars were racists towards him because he was Irish and they were English.

Have he ever regretted his actions during AC Rogue? Absolutely yes, but he never admitted it to himself.

[seven07graces]

[skylinerd]

imagine_being_named_cudgel_lol_couldnt_be_me.png took @raccoonattack ‘s sketch of the bar boi and added on a lil! (and no i wasn’t inspired by renfield 2023 sHUT)

[cippicat]

The fandom named Shay's son "Liam Monro Cormac", after his best friend and his mentor.

That's a real stupid name

tbh I kept crying that whole morning when I woke up and heard the news from my friend. My precious Shay became a grandpa. However since the story took place in 1863,  I guess he didn’t have much time with his grandson Cudgel Cormac.

But hey, how about a father and his son?

[blackflash9]

Whatever happened to the Davenport Homestead?

Eseosa arriving for training at the Davenport Homestead (c.1804) "Once Connor came along, it flourished again for several decades, even surpassing its former glory. Then, it suddenly vanished early in the 19th century. Any manor that can suddenly vanish is both interesting and unsettling in the same measure, though probably not a great investment." - Shaun Hastings, (c. 2012) [Database: Davenport Homestead]

The mystery of the Davenport Homestead remains one of the most perplexing enigmas within the AC universe, primarily due to the myriad factors that could account for its disappearance. A community and establishment like the Homestead doesn't simply vanish without a significant cause. According to the Initiates website, Connor's last recorded activity took place in 1804, when he trained Eseosa, the grandson of Adewale. Given that the Homestead was still in existence then, its disappearance likely occurred after that date.

The factors leading to the Homestead’s decline may also mirror the complicated legacies of its last known guardians, Connor and Shay. Their parallel narratives set the stage for the tumultuous events during the American Civil War. Shay Cormac, as detailed in the "Last Descendants" novelization, eventually returned to America, living long enough to train his descendants as Assassin Hunters. The ending of Rogue hints at a possible future confrontation between Connor and Shay, which could have contributed to the even decline of the (previously named Colonial) American Brotherhood within New York.

Shay's grandson, Cudgel Cormac (c.1863) | Art by: SunsetAgain

This decline is starkly illustrated by the rise of Varius, one of the few Assassins who survived there into the Civil War era, even with Connor—who revitalized the Brotherhood—at the helm. In contemplating their legacies, one might deduce that Connor and Shay forged a truce between the Assassins and Templars that endured for a significant time before their respective deaths. This possibility aligns with Connor’s rare willingness to seek peace with the Templars, a notion few Assassins entertained before him. Shay, while critical of the flawed ideologies of the Brotherhood under Achilles, would have recognized that Connor’s vision surpassed his mentor’s in prioritizing the welfare of people over rigid allegiances.

Both men shared a deep commitment to doing what was right, irrespective of their differing ideologies. Their interactions may have been marked by meaningful debates about the merits and shortcomings of their respective orders, echoing the possibility of cooperative endeavors throughout history. In Unity, we see hints of such interactions, and even William Miles acknowledges the existence of attempted truces between the Assassins and Templars when questioned by Desmond. This raises the question: could Connor and Shay’s alliance have been one of those fleeting moments of cooperation? However, this perspective does not fully explain the Homestead’s disappearance. Other historical events, such as the War of 1812, Tecumseh's Rebellion, and the earliest form of Manifest Destiny, also loom large in this period, potentially influencing the fate of the Brotherhood and its stronghold. It’s plausible that Connor, much like Altair before him, recognized that the Homestead had become a liability—a beacon that exposed them to their enemies. This awareness might have prompted him to relocate the Colonial Brotherhood to various hidden enclaves across America.

As the notion of Manifest Destiny gained traction, different sects of the American Brotherhood likely experienced varying degrees of success, especially after Connor’s passing left them without an influential leader to guide them amidst the resurgence of Templar influence through members such as William Magear "Boss" Tweed, a powerful business tycoon and politician, and Shay’s descendants. Thus, the interwoven fates of Connor, Shay, and the Davenport Homestead present a complex tapestry of alliances, conflicts, and historical forces that shaped the Brotherhood's legacy during a tumultuous period in American history.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Davenport Homestead: An Assassin Fake Out? Other sources, such as from former Ubisoft writer James Nadiger, as well as the fourth illustration of the Assassin's Creed Reflections comic, do give the implication that the entire "disappearance" of the Homestead was supposed to be an orchestrated trick from Connor and the Assassins to throw off the scent of the Templars.

James Nadiger: "Connor would have had his family and friends, and the American Assassins would have played pivotal roles in stuff like the War of 1812. And the idea that the Davenport homestead vanished or that he died alone would all be a fake out to throw the Templars off their scent."

Retcons (?) aside, it’s important to note that the Homestead had still vanished by 2012 when Desmond discovered the precursor key left behind by Connor. This only raises several questions to ponder about: 1.) Why the Fake-Out? – If the Homestead’s disappearance was staged, what prompted the Assassins to resort to such drastic measures? Was it a strategic move to protect a (precursor) key asset?

2.) Impact of Historical Events – How did events like Tecumseh’s Rebellion, the War of 1812, or Manifest Destiny possibly influence the decision to abandon or conceal the Homestead?

3.) Connor’s Legacy – Did Connor anticipate the need to decentralize the Brotherhood, moving away from a single stronghold like the Homestead to ensure its survival? On that note, what the hell even happened to Connor?

4.) Templar Influence – How involved were the Templars in the Homestead’s fate? Did Shay, his descendants, or other Templar factions play a role in its disappearance? If not, why does the sudden move happen, as Shaun implies?

5.) Effectiveness of the Ruse – If the disappearance was a ruse, how effective was it? Did it successfully deceive the Templars, or was it only a temporary measure? --------------------------------------------------------------------------

In conclusion, the mystery of the Davenport Homestead's disappearance leaves us with more questions than answers. Whether its vanishing was part of a strategic ruse by the Assassins or influenced by external historical events, the Homestead’s fate remains a key enigma within Assassin's Creed history. As we explore the possible connections between Connor’s legacy, Templar schemes, and the broader forces of Manifest Destiny, it’s clear that the Homestead’s story is intertwined with the survival and evolution of the American Brotherhood during a pivotal time.

[teecupangel]

The way Numbskull feels like shay in regards of going "okay shit, the fraction I'm with ain't great and this conflicts with my moral code" in most headcannons has got to be my favorite thing, cause while yes Numbskull does agree to be a templar in cannon it feels like they do so very reluctantly in a act of self preservation.

Wanna make this all the more crazy? What if somehow Numbskull is a very distant relative or their friends with a direct descendant of the cormac bloodline who isn't involved with Abstergo

I mean… I can’t blame Numbskull for becoming a Templar considering Berg did this:

There was never really a choice for Numbskull and that’s the kind of bullshit that stays with a person. Numbskull never had a choice and it all started with Shay Cormac’s memories so I like to portray them as having complicated feelings for Shay. Their time in his memories made them ‘care’ for Shay but, at the same time, they also can’t help but blame Shay as the reason they’re stuck with the Templars right now.

So, given a chance, they’d definitely go ‘rogue’ because, hey, that’s what Shay did, right? And Shay should agree with their actions since they were fighting against an organization that would not listen to them, that would only use them to further their own agenda without any remorse on the collateral damage their actions would make.

If we really want to dig into Shay how joining the Templars would pan out centuries from his time, just make Numbskull say:

“I’m just following your footsteps, Mister Cormac.”

Also…

There is a way for Numbskull to be friends with a direct descendant of the Cormac Bloodline and we have two options.

Option 1: Javier Mondragón of the Assassin Brotherhood

He’s one of the main characters of Assassin's Creed: Last Descendants but he’s a teenager by the time of Rogue so he and Numbskull (who is most definitely around their 20s or more) wouldn’t necessarily be friends. What would be interesting is if Numbskull was one of the Abstergo employees who were ordered to retrieve the prongs of the Trident of Eden and their paths (and blades) crossed with Javier bleeding as Shay’s grandson, Cudgel. We can even have a reluctant bitter grandfather and a rebelling grandson thing going on with them.

Option 2: Alannah Ryan of the Assassin Brotherhood

It was implied in Odyssey that Alannah, one of Layla’s teammates, was Shay’s descendant:

So, in this scenario, Numbskull would be older than Alannah but their relationship would be more on an equal footing type of scenario. Numbskull might even feel protective of her as Shay’s bleed might be reminded of someone Shay cared about. If you want it to be romantic, it could be Shay’s wife. If you want it to be more like a case of found family, Alannah might remind them of Shay’s child (the eldest daughter perhaps?).

Either option could also work to give Numbskull the chance (and the courage) to finally defect as well if you want to go down that route.

.

.

.

.

Sidenote to the OC-centric AC idea I had:

Atoli was meant to serve as a red herring for Numbskull’s identity and the plot twist was that Numbskull left Abstergo but didn’t exactly join the Assassins. However, it was Atoli who helped them leave. In exchange, Numbskull helps Atoli in secret, taking the codename ‘Johnny’ and they know that they’re receiving each other’s call/message when they hear the sea shanty ‘Leave her, Johnny’.

[eisforeidolon]

"Honestly, I'm surprised they aren't trying to turn Jenny/Beau into another supposed "parallel" to D/C or trying to get Misha a job as a new love interest on the show."

They are doing that with another woman called Cassie (it was bad enough when did that shit with the one from SPN, now with this one - both are WoC, speaks volumes about their supposed respect for women AND PoC)

I knew that they tried to make a big deal about one of the main gals being named Cassie way back at the beginning when the show/show runner were still teasing Beau/Everybody. I thought maybe they'd have dropped it when Cassie and Cormac clearly became a thing, but yeah, it's not like what's actually happening in a show has ever stopped them before.

Ugh, yes, of all their stupid? Trying to make SPN Cassie nothing more than a Castiel expy is so fucking gross. They only care about representation when they can use it as a cudgel to try and force their ship and it's so damn obvious.

[corvus-the-trickster]

Grandpa Frye

So kinda, Deirdre was a templar when the pair net but I'm thinking over the course of their relationship she slowly shifted away from the templars and closer to being an assassin herself. In my head she poses herself as a non combatant so if she were all that inclined in either direction she'd be more of an informant.

I'm thinking Jackson and Deirdre met in New York. Jackson, our resident idiot (as is any Frye man in love) didn't realise she was a templar until a spat with Cudgel perhaps.

I mean its not like he'd particularly know about the Cormacs as much cause he's english

Call me Jacob Frye because I do whatever I want because I can

[raccoonattack]

Cudgel Cormac, I imagined🥺

[absolxguardian]

I’ve probably posted about this before, but what Cudgel does in Last Descendants for the Templars is so tragic and against everything Shay stood for. The Templars during the Civil War fanned the tensions between the North and the South and controlled both sides (using the same tactics as Germain in the French Rev), all to weaken the country enough for the Templars to sweep in and rebuild the world how they wanted. One of the things that bothered Shay about the Assassins were how, by supporting the French in the 7 years war, they were complicit in slavery. Well now his grandson is helping the people who are trying to prolong a war, while one of the sides support slavery. Innocents die in wars in countless numbers, and that’s what the Templars are counting on! And the Piece of Eden Cudgel is hunting is a third of the piece that can DESTROY THE ENTIRE WORLD!

[cippicat]

Arno, Connor & Shay

Some of the main topics in AC Unity fandom are:

Did Arno knew that it was Shay who killed his father?

Why didn't Arno hunt Shay?

Did Arno and Ratonhnhaké:ton/Connor Kenway met each other?

I think that these are very stupid questions, and I will explain you why IMHO.

I think that Arno, at some point of his life, discoverd about Shay Cormac, and that he was the murder of his father Charles Dorian.

Arno was a Master Assassin, and probably a future mentor, and can have access to many resources.

But he never hunted him down. Why ? It's quite easy, and the math will give us answers.

At the end of AC Rogue, Shay is 45 years old, while Arno is only 8 years old.

At the beginning of AC Unity, in 1789, Arno is 21 years old (it's the eve of the French Revolution). At the end of AC Unity, in 1794 (during the Thermidorian Reaction) and during the events of the DLC Dead Kings, Arno is 26 years old.

If Shay Cormac was still alive he would be 63 years old, in 1794. I think that Shay was still alive because of his nephew Cudgel Cormac who he trained to be a Templar spy.

I don't think that Arno found out about Shay so soon...

But if he discovered his identity so soon: how could a man of 63 fight against a young man of 26 (who has a sword of Eden by the way) ?

Shay wasn't like Connor, or Altair or Ezio. He hadn't so much ISU blood inside him.

Arno probably found out about Shay years later the end of Dead Kings, probably during the Napoleonic era. He decided to not hunt him down because he thought that Shay was already dead (which is extremely possible).

Last question.

Did Arno and Connor met each other?

No.

Why?

It's easy. After the end of AC Unity and Dead Kings, Connor was 38 years old, and had a wife and three children. Knowing him, I don't think he would have embarked for France, leaving his family, and the brotherhood, alone in America.

I think that perhaps they exchanged letters because Connor's name was well known in Europe.

[dailyaclore]

Lore 9/16

The Aztec Club, a gentlemen’s society of veterans of the Mexican-American war possessed the Faith Prong until the Draft Riots of 1863, although they didn’t understand the extent of its power. In the chaos of the riots, the Templar Cudgel Cormac and the Assassin Varius both tried to obtain the Prong. With the help of Eliza, a servant girl with Assassin heritage, Varius was able to gain possession of the Prong. Eliza took it to Ulysses S Grant, the only surviving member of the club, and at that time an Assassin ally. The artifact is the reason for his skill as a politician and military commander.

[especiallyhaytham]

SPEAKING OF Cudgel Cormac... are we ever gonna talk about that? Mf Cudgel? Lil Cudge? Cudgy? God I hate it so much who authorized this

[rogaire-a]

Dad Shay be like

[akecrow]

SHAY’S GRANDSON BEING A TEMPLAR UNDER MF BOSS TWEED LMAOOOOO CLOWNS

[raccoonattack]

cudgel cormac ＆ shay cormac