#crazy that the whole gf thing wasnt even mentioned in s2

[demadogs]

Today I tried rewatching season 4 from the perspective of an audience member who had zero clue about Will’s sexuality before starting the season. I tried stripping my mind of any outside information and just watching the show unfold. And I realized that without context, especially if I was a straight audience member who didn’t easily pick up on queerness, there’s nothing in volume 1 that explicitly televises Byler or Will’s sexuality if you aren’t looking for it. There’s little details and some blink and you’ll miss it vaguely coded convos. But if you had no idea about Byler previously, I feel like it can easily go over your head. Even the painting is a detail that can easily be forgotten. I feel like the first explicit sign is volume 2 and the painting confession but without knowing Will is gay and in love with Mike previously, even that might be somewhat confusing. Thoughts?

i feel like they did show enough of wills feelings this season but i do find it kinda fascinating how much it has to be completely spelled out for most the straight audience. when s3 came out and mike said “its not my fault you dont like girls” i completely took that as them confirming hes gay especially with the destroying castle byers scene after. i remember watching that for the first time and being like “oh shit its official” and then i went on twitter and saw so many people arguing about it and saying thats not what he meant and i was so surprised. people who would make harmless gay memes about will would get so much hate from people who claim he just “hasnt matured yet”.

my straight 25 year old brother and his gf watched the whole show for the first time recently and i watched that episode from s3 with them and when it got to that line i was curious what their reaction would be and my brother just kinda made a noise like “oh shit” but didnt say anything else and his gf didnt really react. when i first saw it my jaw dropped.

then when they started s4 he facetimed me after he finished volume one and we talked about the whole thing and he didnt mention wills feelings at all. it was the painting scene and the scene with will and jonathan that actually made him realize will loves mike. he said he kinda thought maybe he liked him but wasnt positive until the painting scene. but i was talking with his gf’s bi sister after volume one first came out and she already picked up on wills feelings. it was so obvious in my opinion but i guess queer people just pick up on gay subtext quicker.

i mean i picked up on it way back in s2. i didnt think theyd actually go through with it then, but i did notice mike treated will a lot differently than lucas and dustin. it wasnt even the crazy together scene that made me first notice it, it was the one right before it when mike was super protective of will and asked him if hes hurt and then put his arm around him and took him to his house. that was the first time i was like “hmm 🤔”. i remember finishing the season and thinking “im not crazy right?? theres something there? im not just shipping it bc i love gay fiction?” and then i went on here and found people talking about and i was like ok good its not just me.

anyways, i do think they did enough to reveal wills feelings even tho he didnt fully come out and i think after the painting scene anybody who rewatched s4 would notice other things like the “cool, cool” scene and when hes telling mike its scary to open up to people.

mike on the other hand i really wish they did more for, mostly by breaking up mlvn for good. that alone, would have made people wonder if he’d like will back bc he would be single. and they’d wonder why exactly he couldnt say he loved el and then think about all the other clues, especially the very last shot of all the couples very spaced out and paired together including mike and will. i told my brother that i think mikes gay and he literally just thought i misspoke and said “you mean will?”. its that oblivious to the straight audience. theres only one more season left they REALLY should have done more for mike if byler is actually endgame. i will never stop saying it, i think it was such a mistake to have that monologue if bylers truly endgame.

[rachel-bloom]

Can I ask why you dislike Nathaniel so much? Before him I was also a HUGE grebecca shipper but Nathaniel seemed like a better match for her in Greg’s absence. And I was surprised actually once Greg came back I didn’t love him the same way I did before for some reason.

prepare for a rant because im tired of this fandom’s obsession with him 

very negative so don’t even read this if you’re a n*thaniel stan and don’t even bother to argue with me because you know i’m right

but he wasn't a better match, i don't wanna say you in particular but most of the fandom is just blinded by his good looks. like he isn't a good person? he gets a pass for everything he does bc "bohoo he had a bad childhood and his dad doesn't give a fuck about him" like who the fuck cares? i know crazy ex gf is a comedy but r/n songs are like...... weird bc he either fatshames her for comedic value which is like... gross? or the line "it wasnt technically hitler's fault hitler's brother died and that made him super sad" and rebecca is..... jewish. like thats a big yikes from me bro. 

point of their whole relationship is that it's always been about being bad and feeding into her darkness that she wanted to experience at the beginning of s3 like "hey im a bad girl im gonna ruin josh chan's life" i think point of the show is also like that all 3 relationships were never at any point healthy but people excusing nathaniel's behavior after s4 is like.... whelp

he has like....... zero personality out of his relationship with rebecca it's always just about rebecca about being with her and getting in her pants like look.. i didn't really care about him in s2/s3 sure it hurt a lot when greg left and he was right there and it was easy to transfer my love for greg onto him just because he was there and rebecca's new love interest but even now when i look back he wasn't like a good person?  i don't wanna be nitpicky and mention the smallest things but like he was willing to commit murder to have sex with her and that's like.. messed up lmao. i did start hating him hardcore in s4 though. like he literally never respected any of her wishes she says "nathaniel leave me alone we're not good together" and then he manipulates her brother (a literal minor) into giving him rebecca's diary so he could manipulate her and be like "omg look i know this and this maybe we are soulmates after all" the moment he said "everytime we're happy you try to ruin it" it was literally over for me lmao idk how yall can ship this. like 80% of the excuses r/n shippers have is that he's hot and "greg hates waterparks so he's a bad person" when we all know rebecca's mind portrayal of songs and people is not always accurate to reality.

ALSO, he's been on the show for 2 seasons and he hasn't developed for one single fucking second and then he gets ONE day dream episode and suddenly hes a changed man??????? lmao. i admit the turning maya into rebecca at the end and the "let me go" was beautiful i cried not for shipping purposes but because of how rachel acted the scene out and how heartbroken he was BUT it was literally for nothingggg lmao. the second grebecca breaks up he's all up her ass again.

i don't know how much you know about bts stuff but aline (the co-show runner or whatever she is) is OBSESSED with nathaniel it's not even funny anymore, there's been this interview but i can't find it) anyways she was so hell bent on redeeming his worthless ass that it was rushed in the final episode (i admit the zoo thing was cute but i think they only did that because it was you know ~meta~ bc of his zoo song and they had zero idea what to actually do with him bc apparentely there was lots of i don't wanna say discourse but arguments between rachel and aline when it came to what to do with his character in general)

also the BeCauSe iM nIcE noW was so fucking annoying like it wasnt even comedic anymore it was just bad writing

sorry if you like him lmao i just get really worked up about this subject