#council of trent

[apenitentialprayer]

i've read that mormons and JWs are considered heretics because they don't affirm the trinity, so i was wondering what the sort-of 'cut off' point is. like would the ACOE be considered heretics because they say mary isn't the mother of God, only the mother of christ, for example

Alrighty, this is a big one. So, as far as the Jehovah's Witnesses and the (mainstream) Latter Day Saints movement go, things are.... a little more complicated in terms of whether their doctrine is "heresy" or if they are just plain non-Christian (and thus wouldn't count as heretical).

The crux of the argument that they are not Christian is that they do not affirm the Nicene Creed, which was articulated during the Councils of Nicaea (325 AD) and Constantinople (381 AD). While Mormons and JWs can affirm the most primitive of Christian creeds ("Christ is Lord"), the Nicene Creed very quickly took on the status of the σύμβολον, or symbolum in Latin; the "symbol of faith," the creed whose affirmation is itself a verification of one's Christian identity. That's why during the Council of Trent, for example, the Tridentine Fathers invited Protestants to participate in the Council on the condition that they could still affirm the Creed.

Of course, Mormons and JWs do not see it that way. They self-identify as Christians; and each group doesn't see themselves just as Christians, but as restorers of a purer, more original Christianity that had existed before the creation of that Creed.

But, anyway, if the conclusion of this argument is accepted, and members of the (mainstream) Latter Day Saints movement and Jehovah's Witnesses are not considered Christian, they by definition cannot be considered heretics; per the Baltimore Catechism, heretics are "baptized Christians, but do not believe all the articles of faith" (Q 1170).

The Assyrian Church of the East affirms the Nicene Creed, have Apostolic Succession, and have limited intercommunion with the Catholic Church. And, Christologically, they have an interesting situation going on. The Assyrian Church has not formally accepted the dogmatic Christological definitions of the Council of Ephesus (431). And, on that alone, the ACoE would seem to fit into the Baltimore Catechism's definition of heretic.

But over 1550 years after that split, the leaders of both the Assyrian Church of the East and the Catholic Church signed a document that affirmed that both Churches saw the other's Christological doctrines as valid, and that both theologies were expressions of the same Apostolic faith. You can read the full document, which is not very long, here.

But to abstract the discussion of heresy for a moment (bold of me to do, admittedly, after saying the last ask was a little vague); we need to make a distinction between formal heresy and material heresy. As Pope Benedict noted in 1993, which itself was an echo of the 1912 Catholic Encyclopedia's description of heresy, the defining characteristic of formal heresy is pertinacia, which can be translated as "stubbornness." What makes a person a "heretic" in a condemnable sense is this pertinacia, this holding fast to falsehoods in defiance of correction by proper authority.

So while the first generations of Protestants may be considered formal heretics, Pope Benedict noted that this does not reflect the actual social and religious conditions of Protestants living today, who are simply living out their Christian faith in the traditions that have arisen since the Reformation. They may be material heretics, and the doctrines of Protestantism may be considered heretical from the Catholic viewpoint, but being a Protestant does not automatically incur the guilt of heresy.

And, in all honesty, most Christians alive today (and most Christians in all ages) have in all probability been material heretics - i.e., they hold some wrong or incorrect opinions concerning the faith, but simply out of ignorance and not in defiance of proper authority. And that is not a sin.

[spiritualdirections]

No, in confession you aren't talking directly to Jesus, nor is He to you

A friend asked me to comment on the following sentence that she had come across:

"When the priest declares our sins are forgiven, it is Jesus speaking his words of love through the priest."

I fgured I would share my response:

"St. Thomas Aquinas is the source of the distinction that in confession and other sacraments, the words said by the priest are the priest's, but in the mass at the consecration the words of the priest are Jesus'.  

"Aquinas' distinction is: At the consecration, the priest acts in persona Christi. In all other sacraments, the priest acts ex persona ministri (see Summa Theologia III.78.1). Vatican II introduced the phrase "in persona Christi capitis" to refer to the priest or bishop insofar as he is exercising his Holy Orders (see Presbyterorum Ordinis 2).

"St. Thomas never expected that his choice of terms would later become canonical, and used by people who otherwise would not read the Summa Theologiae. But since they did, and because the two expressions are so similar, people are sometimes confused about the teaching regarding the other sacraments, particularly confession.

"You can tell that the words in confession come from the priest, since in the formula of absolution, the priest says, "I absolve you in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." If the words came from Jesus, he wouldn't be acting "in the name of" anybody else. 

"So the text above is incorrect. The priest is not possessed by Jesus when he talks to the penitent, nor is the priest prophesying, nor must he use Jesus' words in Scripture. Those are pretty much the ways for Jesus to put his words in the priest's mouth as the text suggests, and none of them happen regularly. What happens is that the priest uses his intellect and judgment. Hopefully, he's open to any promptings from the Holy Spirit, but the action is fully his. Some Protestants tried to deny this before the Council of Trent, but Trent condemned anyone who thought the priest was not acting as a judge using his own prudence."

[thepastisalreadywritten]

SAINT OF THE DAY (November 4)

No age of the Catholic Church's history is without its share of confusion and corruption.

Still, even in moments when disorder may seem overwhelming, individuals and movements eventually arise to propose the faith with clarity and demonstrate it in action.

St. Charles Borromeo, a central figure in the Council of Trent, is remembered on November 4 as a model of such leadership in difficult times.

The circumstances of Charles' birth on 2 October 1538 could have easily allowed him to join the ranks of corrupt Renaissance-era clergy.

He was born into luxury, the son of noble parents, with a guaranteed income comparable to modern “trust funds.”

The Borromeo family was one of the most ancient and wealthy families in Lombardy, made famous by several notable men, both in the church and state.

His father Gilbert was Count of Arona. His mother Margaret was a member of the Milan branch of the House of Medici.

Early on, however, the young man signaled his intention to go against the cultural grain.

He announced his desire to serve the Church with sincerity, asking his father to give away the majority of the fund's money to the poor.

Charles could not escape a certain degree of wealth and prestige, which were expected due to his social class, but he insisted on using these forms of leverage to benefit the Church, rather than himself.

When he was 22, his opportunity came: the young lawyer and canonist's uncle was elected as Pope Pius IV.

Charles soon assumed staggering responsibilities, serving as a papal diplomat and supervisor of major religious orders.

The young man relaxed from these tasks through literature and music, taking no interest in the temptations abounding in Rome during the late Renaissance.

He considered renouncing even this temperate lifestyle for the strict observance of a monastery — but found himself more urgently needed in the work of concluding the Council of Trent.

The Church's nineteenth Ecumenical Council had begun in late 1545 but experienced many delays.

Its twofold mission was to clarify Catholic doctrine against Protestant objections and reform the Church internally against many longstanding problems.

As a papal representative, Charles participated in the council's conclusion in 1563, when he was only 25.

He also played a leading role in assembling its comprehensive summary, the Roman Catechism or 'Catechism of the Council of Trent.'

In reward for his labors, Charles received even greater responsibilities. Ordained a priest during the Council, he was named as archbishop and cardinal only months later.

He found his diocese of Milan in a state of disintegration, after two generations of virtually no local administration or leadership.

The new bishop got straight to work establishing schools, seminaries, and centers for religious life.

His reforms of the diocese, in accordance with the decrees of the council, were dramatic and effective, so much so that a group of disgruntled monks attempted to kill him. His survival was called miraculous.

The new archbishop's efforts for catechesis and the instruction of youth were especially fruitful, initiating the work of the Confraternity for Christian Doctrine and the first “Sunday School” classes.

He also gave important pastoral attention to English Catholics who fled to Italy to escape new laws against the Catholic faith.

St. Charles Borromeo's amazing diligence, frequent travel and ascetic living eventually took their toll.

The once young prodigy of the Papal Court also died young at the age of 46 on 3 November 1584.

He was beatified by Clement VIII on 12 May 1602. He was canonized by Paul V 26 years later, on 1 November 1610.

He is the patron of bishops, cardinals, seminarians, spiritual leaders, catechists, and catechumens.

[otterscaletta]

ESP “Habiendo la Iglesia católica, instruida por el Espíritu Santo, según la doctrina de la sagrada Escritura y de la antigua tradición de los Padres, enseñado en los sagrados concilios, y últimamente en este general de Trento, que hay Purgatorio; y que las almas detenidas en él reciben alivio con los sufragios de los fieles, y en especial con el aceptable sacrificio de la misa; manda el santo Concilio a los Obispos que cuiden con suma diligencia que la sana doctrina del Purgatorio, recibida de los santos Padres y sagrados concilios, se enseñe y predique en todas partes, y se crea y conserve por los fieles cristianos. Exclúyanse empero de los sermones, predicados en lengua vulgar a la ruda plebe, las cuestiones muy difíciles y sutiles que nada conducen a la edificación, y con las que rara vez se aumenta la piedad. Tampoco permitan que se divulguen, y traten cosas inciertas, o que tienen vislumbres o indicios de falsedad. Prohíban como escandalosas y que sirven de tropiezo a los fieles las que tocan en cierta curiosidad, o superstición, o tienen resabios de interés o sórdida ganancia. Mas cuiden los Obispos que los sufragios de los fieles, es a saber, los sacrificios de las misas, las oraciones, las limosnas y otras obras de piedad, que se acostumbran hacer por otros fieles difuntos, se ejecuten piadosa y devotamente según lo establecido por la Iglesia; y que se satisfaga con diligencia y exactitud cuánto se debe hacer por los difuntos, según exijan las fundaciones de los testadores, u otras razones, no superficialmente, sino por sacerdotes y ministros de la Iglesia y otros que tienen esta obligación”

Concilio de Trento (1545-1563)

ENG

"Since the Catholic Church, instructed by the Holy Spirit, according to the doctrine of sacred Scripture and the ancient tradition of the Fathers, has taught in the sacred councils, and lately in this general of Trent, that there is Purgatory; and that the souls detained in it receive relief with the suffrages of the faithful, and especially with the acceptable sacrifice of the Mass; the Holy Council commands the Bishops to take great care that the sound doctrine of Purgatory, received from the holy Fathers and sacred councils, is taught and preached everywhere, and is created and preserved by the Christian faithful. However, be excluded from sermons, preached in the vulgar tongue to the rude plebs, the very difficult and subtle questions that lead nothing to edification, and with which piety is rarely increased. Also do not allow things that are uncertain, or that have glimpses or indications of falsehood, to be divulged and dealt with. Forbid as scandalous and a stumbling block to the faithful those that touch on a certain curiosity, or superstition, or have traces of interest or sordid gain. But let the Bishops take care that the suffrages of the faithful, that is to say, the sacrifices of Masses, prayers, alms-offerings and other works of piety, which they are accustomed to do for other faithful departed, are carried out piously and devoutly as established by the Church; and that it be fulfilled with diligence and exactitude how much should be done for the deceased, according to the foundations of the testators, or other reasons, not superficially, but by priests and ministers of the Church and others who have this obligation.”

Council of Trent (1545-1563)

purgatory

[world-v-you-blog]

The Tapestry of History, 13 – The Rise of the West, 8 – The Reformation, 4 – Outcomes

(Image credit – Canadian Mennonite Magazine – The birth of Anabaptism in fire and water) The Protestant Reformation changed Europe, and hence the West, forever. As we’ve previously noted in this series, the monopoly of religious faith held by the Roman Catholic Church ended. The Protestant Reformers had not intended to form a whole new, third major branch of Christianity, the first two being…

[dontcallittimetravel]

On This Day: the final session of the 18-year council of trent begins, finishing off the longest. Staff meeting. Ever.

It was so long, the catholic church didn't hold one again for another 300 years

[snarkleharkle]

It's a page. It's a bit convoluted, and honestly I'm not sure if it actually says anything other than antisemitism bad, there's more antisemitism, that is bad.

Also...at the end there is this that basically says. Antisemitism bad, but also free speech good and also the secretary of education is not allowed to play with us.

SEC. 6. OTHER RULES OF CONSTRUCTION.

(a) General Rule Of Construction.—Nothing in this Act shall be construed—

(1) to expand the authority of the Secretary of Education;

(2) to alter the standards pursuant to which the Department of Education makes a determination that harassing conduct amounts to actionable discrimination; or

(3) to diminish or infringe upon the rights protected under any other provision of law that is in effect as of the date of enactment of this Act.

(b) Constitutional Protections.—Nothing in this Act shall be construed to diminish or infringe upon any right protected under the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.

So no. Saying Jews killed Jesus isn't becoming illegal. It's just tacky and wrong.

Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, the Georgia Republican who has been criticized in the past for her dalliances with antisemitic tropes and influencers, explained her vote against a bill defining antisemitism by saying that the bill it rejects the “gospel” that “the Jews” handed Jesus over to his crucifiers.

But Greene, posting on X, formerly Twitter, laid out a different concern: that the bill threatened Christian expression. “Antisemitism is wrong, but I will not be voting for the Antisemitism Awareness Act of 2023 (H.R. 6090) today that could convict Christians of antisemitism for believing the Gospel that says Jesus was handed over to Herod to be crucified by the Jews,” she said. “Read the bill text and contemporary examples of antisemitism like #9.”

In her tweet, Greene posts two photos: One focuses on the portion of the bill that adopts as part of its definition of antisemitism the 11 “contemporary examples of antisemitism” in the definition of antisemitism composed by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance. The second photo highlights the ninth example, “using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.”

Her fellow far-right Republican, Rep. Matt Gaetz of Florida, explained his no vote in similar terms on the same platform. “The Gospel itself would meet the definition of antisemitism under the terms of this bill!” Gaetz writes, and gores on to quote New Testament scripture that collectively blames Jews for Jesus’s killing

[ultrachoppedpenguinbouquet]

Apocrypha

[vulnerasti-cor-meum]

reading the council of trent texts and honestly there’s a lot of good stuff in there

[apenitentialprayer]

Credo of the People of God

This Creed was promulgated by Pope Saint Paul VI, on the 30th of June, 1968. This Creed, "without being strictly speaking a dogmatic definition," was meant to repeat "in substance . . . the creed of Nicaea" while also elaborating upon the dogmas of the Church "to a high degree complete and explicit" (§3, 7). Pronounced at the end of the Year of Faith, it was meant as a gift to "all those in the world, to whatever spiritual family they belong, who are in search of the Truth" (§7). Bolded emphases are added to better separate the articles of the Creed for convenience of reading.

We believe in one only God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, Creator of things visible such as this world in which our transient life passes, of things invisible such as the pure spirits which are also called angels, and Creator of each man of his spiritual and immortal soul.

We believe that this only God is absolutely One in His infinitely holy essence as also in all His perfections, in His omnipotence, His infinite knowledge, His providence, His will, and His love. He is He who is, as He revealed to Moses; and He is love, as the Apostle John teaches us: so that these two names, being and love, express ineffably the same divine Reality of Him who has wished to make Himself known to us, and who, "dwelling in light inaccessible," is in Himself above every name, above every thing, and above every created intellect. God alone can give us right and full knowledge of this Reality by revealing Himself as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, in whose eternal life we are by grace called to share, here below in the obscurity of faith and after death in eternal light. The mutual bonds which eternally constitute the Three Persons, who are each one and the same divine Being, are the blessed inmost life of God thrice-holy, infinitely beyond all that we can conceive in human measure. We give thanks, however, to the divine goodness that very many believers can testify with us before men to the unity of God, even though they know not the mystery of the Holy Trinity.

We believe then in the Father who eternally begets the Son; in the Son, the Word of God, who is eternally begotten; in the Holy Spirit, the uncreated Person who proceeds from the Father and the Son as their eternal love. Thus in the Three Divine Persons, coaeternae sibi et coaeuales, the life and beatitude of God perfectly superabound and are consummated in the supreme excellence and glory proper to uncreated Being, and always "there should be venerated unity in the Trinity and Trinity in the unity."

We believe in our Lord Jesus Christ, who is the Son of God. He is the Eternal Word, born of the Father before time began, and one in substance with the Father, homoousios to Patri, and through Him all things were made. He was incarnate of the Virgin Mary by the power of the Holy Spirit, and was made Man: equal therefore to the Father according to His divinity, and inferior to the Father according to His humanity; and Himself one, not by some impossible confusion of His natures, but by the unity of His Person.

He dwelt among us, full of grace and truth. He proclaimed and established the Kingdom of God and made us know in Himself the Father. He gave us His new commandment to love one another as He loved us. He taught us the way of the beatitudes of the Gospel: poverty in spirit, meekness, suffering borne with patience, thirst after justice, mercy, purity of heart, will for peace, persecution suffered for justice sake. Under Pontius Pilate He suffered — the Lamb of God bearing on Himself the sins of the world, and He died for us on the cross, saving us by His redeeming Blood. He was buried, and, of His own power, rose on the third day, raising us by His Resurrection to that sharing in the divine life which is the life of grace. He ascended to heaven, and He will come again, this time in glory, to judge the living and the dead, each according to his merits — those who have responded to love and piety of God going to eternal life, those who have refused them to the end going to the fire that is not extinguished.

And His Kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, who is the Lord and Giver of life, who is adored and glorified together with the Father and the Son. He spoke to us by the prophets; He was sent by Christ after His Resurrection and His Ascension to the Father; He illuminates, vivifies, protects, and guides the Church; He purifies the Church's members if they do not shun His grace. His action, which penetrates to the inmost of the soul, enables man to respond to the call of Jesus; "Be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect." We believe that Mary is the Mother, who remained ever a Virgin, of the Incarnate Word, our God and Savior Jesus Christ, and that by reason of this singular election, she was, in consideration of the merits of her Son, redeemed in a more eminent manner, preserved from all stain of Original Sin, and filled with the grace more than all other creatures. Joined by a close and indissoluble bond to the mysteries of the Incarnation and Redemption, the Blessed Virgin, the Immaculate, was at the end of her earthly life raised body and soul to heavenly glory and likened to her risen Son in anticipation of the future lot of all the just; and we believe that the Blessed Mother of God, the New Eve, Mother of the Church, continues in heaven her maternal role with regard to Christ's members, cooperating with the birth and growth of divine life in the souls of the redeemed.

We believe that in Adam all have sinned, which means that the original offense committed by him caused human nature, common to all men, to fall to a state in which it bears the consequences of that offense, and which is not the state in which it was at first in our first parents — established as they were in holiness and justice, and in which man knew neither evil nor death. It is human nature so fallen, stripped of the grace that clothed it, injured in its own natural powers and subjected to the dominion of death, that is transmitted to all men, and it is in this sense that every man is born in sin. We therefore hold, with the Council of Trent, that original sin is transmitted with human nature, "not by imitation, but by propagation," and that it is thus "proper to everyone."

We believe that our Lord Jesus Christ, by the sacrifice of the Cross, redeemed us from Original Sin and all the personal sins committed by each one of us, so that, in accordance with the word of the Apostle, "where sin abounded, grace did more abound."

We believe in one Baptism instituted by our Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. Baptism should be administered even to little children who have not yet been able to be guilty of any personal sin, in order that, though born deprived of supernatural grace, they may be reborn "of water and the Holy Spirit" to the divine life in Christ Jesus.

We believe in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, built by Jesus Christ on that rock which is Peter. She is the Mystical Body of Christ; at the same time a visible society instituted with hierarchical organs, and a spiritual community; the Church on earth, the pilgrim people of God here below, and the Church filled with heavenly blessings; the germ and the first fruits of the Kingdom of God, through which the work and the sufferings of Redemption are continued throughout human history, and which looks for its perfect accomplishment beyond time in glory. In the course of time, the Lord Jesus forms His Church by means of the sacraments emanating from His plenitude. By these She makes Her members participants in the Mystery of the Death and Resurrection of Christ, in the grace of the Holy Spirit who gives Her life and movement. She therefore is holy, though She has sinners in Her bosom, because She Herself has no other life but that of grace: it is by living by Her life that Her members are sanctified; it is by removing themselves from Her life that they fall into sins and disorders that prevent the radiation of Her sanctity. This is why She suffers and does penance for these offenses, of which She has the power to heal Her children through the Blood of Christ and the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Heiress of the divine promises and daughter of Abraham according to the Spirit, through that Israel whose Scriptures She lovingly guards, and whose patriarchs and prophets She venerates; founded upon the Apostles and handing on from century to century their ever-living word and their powers as pastors in the successor of Peter and the bishops in communion with him; perpetually assisted by the Holy Spirit she has the charge of guarding, teaching, explaining, and spreading the Truth which God revealed in a then-veiled manner by the prophets, and fully by the Lord Jesus. We believe all that is contained in the word of God written or handed down, and that the Church proposes for belief as divinely revealed, whether by solemn judgment or by the ordinary and universal Magisterium. We believe in the infallibility enjoyed by the successor of Peter when he teaches ex cathedra as pastor and teacher of all the faithful, and which is assured also to the episcopal body when it exercises with him the supreme Magisterium.

We believe that the Church founded by Jesus Christ and for which He prayed is indefectibly one in faith, worship, and the bond of hierarchical communion. In the bosom of this Church, the rich variety of liturgical rites and the legitimate diversity of theological and spiritual heritages and special disciplines, far from injuring Her unity, make it more manifest.

Recognizing also the existence, outside the organism of the Church of Christ, of numerous elements of truth and sanctification which belong to Her as Her own and tend to Catholic unity, and believing in the action of the Holy Spirit who stirs up in the heart of the disciples of Christ love for this unity, we entertain the hope that the Christians who are not yet in full communion of the one only Church will one day be reunited in one flock with one only Shepherd.

We believe that the Church is necessary for salvation, because Christ, who is the sole Mediator and way of salvation, renders Himself present for us in His Body which is the Church. But the divine design of salvation embraces all men; and those who without fault on their part do not know the Gospel of Christ and His Church, but seek God sincerely, and under the influence of grace endeavor to do His will as recognized through the promptings of their conscience, they, in number known only to God, can obtain salvation.

We believe that the Mass, celebrated by the priest representing the Person of Christ by virtue of the power received through the sacrament of Orders, and offered by him in the Name of Christ and the members of His Mystical Body, is the sacrifice of Calvary rendered sacramentally present on our altars. We believe that as the bread and wine consecrated by the Lord at the Last Supper were changed into His Body and His Blood which were to be offered for us on the Cross, likewise the bread and wine consecrated by the priest are changed into the Body and Blood of Christ enthroned gloriously in heaven, and we believe that the mysterious Presence of the Lord, under what continues to appear to our senses as before, is true, real, and substantial Presence.

Christ cannot thus be present in this sacrament except by the change into His Body of the reality itself of the bread and the change into His Blood of the reality itself of the wine, leaving unchanged only the properties of the bread and wine which our senses perceive. This mysterious change is very appropriately called by the Church transubstantiation. Every theological explanation which seeks some understanding of thus mystery must, in order to be in accord with the Catholic faith, maintain that in the reality itself, independently of our mind, the bread and wine have ceased to exist after the Consecration, so that it is the adorable Body and Blood of the Lord Jesus that from then on are really before us under the sacramental species of bread and wine, as the Lord willed it, in order to give Himself to us as food and to associate us with the unity of His Mystical Body.

The unique and indivisible existence of the Lord, glorious in heaven, is not multiplied, but is rendered present by the sacrament in the many places on earth where Mass is celebrated. And this existence remains present, after the sacrifice, in the Blessed Sacrament which is, in the tabernacle, the living heart of each of our churches. And it is our very sweet duty to honor and adore in the blessed Host which our eyes see, the Incarnate Word whom they cannot see, and who, without leaving heaven, is made present before us.

We confess that the Kingdom of God begun here below in the Church of Christ is not of this world whose form is passing, and that its proper growth cannot be confounded with the progress of civilization, of science, or of human technology, but that it consists in an ever more profound knowledge of the unfathomable riches of Christ, an ever stronger hope in eternal blessings, an ever more ardent response to the love of God, and an ever more generous bestowal of grace and holiness among men. But it is this same love which induces the Church to concern Herself constantly about the true temporal welfare of men. Without ceasing to recall to Her children that they have not here a lasting dwelling, She also urges them to contribute, each according to his vocation and his means, to the welfare of their earthly city, to promote justice, peace, and brotherhood among men, to give their aid freely to their brothers, especially to the poorest and most unfortunate. The deep solicitude of the Church, the Spouse of Christ, for the needs of men, for their joys and hopes, their griefs and efforts, is therefore nothing other than Her great desire to be present to them, in order to illuminate them with the light of Christ and to gather them all in Him, their only Savior. This solicitude can never mean that the Church conform Herself to the things of this world, or that She lessen the ardor of Her expectation of Her Lord and of the eternal Kingdom. We believe in life eternal. We believe that the souls of all those who die in the grace of Christ, whether they must still be purified in purgatory, or whether from the moment they leave their bodies Jesus takes them to paradise as He did for the Good Thief, are the people of God in the eternity beyond death, which will finally be conquered on the day of the Resurrection when these souls will be reunited to their bodies.

We believe that the multitude of those gathered around Jesus and Mary in paradise forms the Church of Heaven where in eternal beatitude they see God as He is, and where they also, in different degrees, are associated with the holy angels in the divine rule exercised by Christ in glory, interceding for us and helping our weakness by their brotherly care.

We believe in the communion of all the faithful of Christ, those who are pilgrims on earth, the dead who are attaining their purification, and the blessed in heaven, all together forming one Church; and we believe that in this communion the merciful love of God and His saints is ever listening to our prayers, as Jesus told us: "Ask, and you will receive." Thus it is with faith and in hope that we look forward to the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.

Blessed be God thrice-holy. Amen.

[snarkleharkle]

If anon isn't Christian then why do they care if Jews killed Jesus or not?

The answer is not, by the way, we all killed Christ. But like you said, I'm going to guess anon was raised some flavour of Protestant in America.

Jewish does not equal isr**l. It’s a religion and not a country. So no isr**l has not existed for thousands of years, conflating the two is the issue. Isr**l was created by a colonial entity of England after the holocaust. It has only existed since 1948. Judaism and Jews have existed for thousands of years, however isr**l has not.

Also not Christian but the fact you are disputing the fact that Jews killed Christ yet believe because your book says you’re the chosen people isr**l has a right to exist and genocide Palestinian…

Religion is a disease truly.

See here's your problem. I am telling you very clearly, as are many others, that Jews are an ethnic group. Judaism is the religion practiced by the Jewish people. We are connected by a common heritage and culture, part of the culture is the religion but that is not the exclusive connector. If you can't get your head around that, what's the point in having a conversation? You deny the right of my people the the same dignity other peoples are granted - why is that?

"religion truly is a disease". I assume you were bought up religious and left the religion? That's your call and belief system. Luckily for me, being Jewish isn't exclusively about a religion so I can be Jewish whatever my feelings about the existence of a god or not.

Yisrael as referred to by the Egyptians was a people, a nation. Not a religion, because this predates the notion of modern day religion. It was a reference to the tribes in the Levant, including things like the kingdom of Judah - from which the name Jew was chosen by non-Jews to describe us. This was a name thrust upon us by others.

Do not put words into my mouth. I said that modern day (Christian) antisemitism in europe is to do with the idea that the Jews killed jesus. I'm agnostic myself, I don't really have feelings either way about the existence of God or if they had a son.

In terms of "God's chosen people", I've made my feelings on God known in the last paragraph but if you knew anything about Jews - which clearly you don't, so please pay attention - you would know that "chosen" is not "favourite", but rather "chosen to do the chores this week". The Jewish relationship with God has nothing to do with non-Jews. In fact, non Jews can pray to whomever they want, that's between them and their deity if they believe in one! I fully am of the believe that should there be a God, there is no reason why there can't be more than one and other people just pray to other Gods, and I'll back that up with quotes from scripture if needed. If God exists, their covenant with the Jews has nothing to do with non-Jews so non-Jews are not bound by the same rules that Jews are regarding said covenant.

Israel does have a right to exist. The UN said so. (Just like Pakistan, north and south Korea, the Czech republic, Slovakia, Sudan and South Sudan - all countries created through partition plans. Israel isn't special)

If the ICJ rules what's going on a genocide, then I will call it that. Until that moment, or I actively see Bibi sending people to hunt down every palestinian they can find to try and wipe them out (like Hamas did to the Israelis on October 7th), then I will not call it a genocide. Genocide has a legal definition, and definitions are exist for a reason. The ongoing war is catastrophic and horrific and I've seen shit I'll never unsee. Something bad however does not immidiately mean it's a genocide, that's just not how it works.

[castielsupernatural]

hey guys so i know supernatural has been off the air for 2 years and 4 months but i’m interested in using my professional background in community organizing to establish a unionized council in charge of posthumously determining select deleted scenes as official canon while simultaneously selecting certain scenes to decanonize despite having been on air. i believe this conference ought to be equitably comprised of our long-divided factions in order to ofjajdkaladjfhaosnfna d cjzzmnxbdbdbwb nxjxucicwieif faifxnz cnzoxiwur

[fanfic-lover-girl]

the warblers being comedy kings for 9 minutes *straight*

I wish we had more of the Warblers!!! What comedic kings! Always entertaining when they were on screen. I need a Warbler spin-off show :’(

[navree]

under the weather and re-reading his dark materials, never gonna understand how tf certain religious people get so mad at the critique of the organizations of religion in certain fictional works

[apenitentialprayer]

I'm not sure if "idea that ha[s] achieved wide support without substantial condemnation among Roman Catholics are doctrine" is referring to the idea that Purgatory is a secret third place, or the idea that Purgatory has elements of punitive justice. If you're talking about the former, thank you for understanding that this is simply an error. If you're talking about the latter, then to be absolutely fair to you, it has to be admitted that this is a position that the Catholic Church has emphasized in the past. Purgatory as a place of passive punishment has Thomistic origins, and there have been times where the Thomistic view has been the dominant viewpoint of the Church. A Ukrainian Catholic deacon and professor of religious studies, Fr. Anthony Dragani, as said that in recent years "Roman Catholic theology has (thankfully) moved beyond this approach, to a more Patristic understanding of Purgatory." And that's part of why I'm curious about what you would find disagreeable about the definitions given to the "intermediate state" provided above. And I think that it should be pointed out that Catholics actually agree that what the soul experiences after their particular judgment is only a taste of what is to come at the Final Judgment; whereas you seem to have different words for the state before the Final Judgment, we simply call the foretaste "heaven" and "hell" as well; Catholics agree that we experience the fullness of those realities once we have experienced the Resurrection. While I will admit that the name "Purgatory" and some of its more colorful interpretations (which the Council of Trent actually tries to crackdown on, declaring that "subtle" and "uncertain" premises that "tend to a kind of curiosity or superstition" should be "excluded from popular discourses") lack antiquity, but I think the core of the doctrine as elucidated in the above definitions go all the way back to the earliest expression of the Church. But, as I've said, I am open to hearing what you think is defective about the above definitions.

Why Orthodox Disagree With Purgatory

It creates a "third place" between Heaven and Hell - if not in theology, certainly in the minds of some laity, as demonstrated by the division of the Church Militant, Penitent and Triumphant. Since Orthodox have a strong belief in lex orandi, lex credendi, many of us hear that kind of language and assume that Roman Catholics literally believe that Purgatory is something as distinct from Heaven as Hell is from Heaven.

It redirects people's focus from the Final Judgement to the Particular Judgement. Both of the scriptural instances of prayer for the repose of the soul (2 Maccabees 12:39-45, 2 Timothy 1:16-18) are concerned with the Resurrection and the Day of Judgement respectively, as is 1 Corinthians 3:15, a common prooftext for Purgatory (see :13). But Purgatory casts them as being about the Particular Judgement.

While we don't oppose the idea of post-mortem purification of the soul from sin (indeed, it was one of the pronouncements of the 1672 Council of Jerusalem, our equivalent of the Council of Trent), we do oppose the concept historically popular among Roman Catholics, of a realm where people are punished for their sins before graduating to Heaven, because we believe that there is no punishment in that sense with God - with God, there is only difficult purification (penances), rearranging the world (divine judgement) or being with Him in an impure and hence painful state (Hell).

These aren't the only reasons, but these are ones that I find compelling and that are popular with Orthodox Christians.

Any Roman Catholics reading this, I'd like to hear your thoughts. Tagging @paula-of-christ, @apenitentialprayer and @cactusflowerfemme for that purpose.

[chicago-geniza]

From Cecylia's (one of the probably-gay Catholic reformers mentioned earlier) diaries: "My conscience told me that if I wanted to be an instrument in the Lord's hand, to be of use building His kingdom on earth, I would need to remain pure* & free**. The purer the instrument, the more effective its work." GIRL

*virginal

**unmarried