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fate-magical-girls · 1 year ago

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Hal Jordan

1. The character everyone gets wrong

Hal isn’t just a carefree high-flying horndog daredevil dumb attention-seeker. He’s traumatized, he’s sad, he’s guilt-ridden, and his life is often a complete and utter mess, but he’s always working to power through that and try to find some semblance of normalcy. He’s flirty, but he respects when people tell him to back off. He chafes at having to be strictly professional when his girlfriend gets promoted over him, but he’s also perfectly domestic and if Carol allows him, or the Guardians give him the spare time, would happily settle into being a househusband. He seeks thrills and he can’t help it, but there’s times when chasing the next big mission becomes a way for him to drown out his pain over how bad his personal life has gotten. Sometimes, also, the recklessness is actual self-destructiveness, and he sees himself as expendable compared to other GLs. He hasn’t been conservative since the 70s and his road trip with Ollie. In fact, he’s one of the more open-minded, empathetic, and compassionate of the JLers. He wields more powers and has been to more planets and cultures than most of his teammates, but when they lecture him about something he overlooked, he has the humility to shut up and listen. And despite the grief Batman gives him over the years for being a hotheaded loose cannon who thinks with his heart over his head, Hal always goes out of his way to help Batman deal with his lingering grief over his dead parents. As a GL, he’s also going to a lot of planets with a lot of social mores, but rarely does he ever judge.

But also, Hal’s mom doesn’t get a fair shake. Yes, he’s his father’s son, but his mom raised him for most of his life. Just because they were estranged for a period doesn’t mean their relationship was always horrible. It doesn’t mean he doesn’t love her, and over the years, might have understood why she was against his dreams of flight.

3. Screenshot or description of the worst take you’ve seen on tumblr

The idea that Hal Jordan needs Barry Allen to continue functioning. He doesn’t. When he keeps in touch with his friends, Hal’s support network is big enough that he doesn’t need to hang out with Barry. He's still a bit of a mess, but he can stave off those self-destructive urges. Barry is one of his best friends, but he’s ultimately a good times friend. Hal feels free to goof off around him, but is ultimately ashamed to show Barry his actual dark thoughts. Kilowog, Ollie, Dinah, and Tom Kalmaku ultimately have a better idea of who Hal is under his facade of being a cheerful free spirit than Barry Allen does.

7. What character did you begin to hate not because of canon but because how how the fandom acts about them?

Barry Allen. Or rather it’s a case of not liking him all that much to begin with and the HalBarry ship being by far the majority of Hal-related fanart and fanfic. I’ve since grown to not hate Barry, but I just really want to see Hal’s other relationships getting focus.

8. Common fandom opinion that everyone is wrong about

Fans and sometimes writers act like Hal Jordan is everything wrong with American masculinity. Hal isn’t the shining example of feminist ally, but he isn’t a dumb chauvinist horndog who only exists to be rejected by women proving they’re no-nonsense. Like I said, he’s perfectly okay with being the domestic one when he’s with Carol. He can be kind and nurturing, especially as Spectre. He also has nothing but respect for Dinah Lance after their initial meeting (which differs depending on which reset of DC continuity you follow). She’s the big sister he never had. And his flirting doesn't get on everyone's nerves. Plenty of the women around him are glad to have him as a booty call. He and Ollie do fight a lot, but that’s just because he’s not so radically liberal as Ollie. This is a man who spends 3/4 of the time being homeless and half of the other 1/2 in space encountering other cultures. You really think he would be close-minded?

9. Worst part of canon

Absolving Hal of his sins by making Parallax a malevolent force possessing him rather than a natural culmination of his anger and grief after suffering the worst trauma of his life and being denied even the chance to try and come to terms with it by the Guardians, who often treated Hal as more of a tool than a person with his own needs and wants. It removes agency and complexity from the character. Flaws, especially flaws acknowledged in-universe are a crucial part of characters for me, and there's something very appealing about Hal having gone from hero to scourge and back to hero.

The Arisia thing is a very close second, simply for the pure squick that her sudden maturation for the sake of romance involved.

10. Worst part of fanon

How everyone tends to overlook Hal’s relationship with his family and friends not named Barry Allen. But also focusing on Hal as the himbo of the Justice League and forgetting that he is very traumatized. Nobody hates Hal Jordan like Hal hates himself.

Also, forget about the Hawkeye initiative. Hal Jordan was bending himself into impossible poses long before that poseur Clint Barton.

12. The unpopular character that you actually like and why more people should like them

I demand Tomar-Re and his son, “how dare you automatically assume I am Tomar-Re’s son because we have the same name and all Xudarans look the same” Tomar-Tu, get the love they deserve. Tomar Tu has been a staunch background character for ages. And yet despite being sector neighbors with Hal, despite Hal almost killing him during Parallax’s rampage, despite his sector formerly hosting Krypton, he doesn’t get very many stories centered around him or Xudar.

Also Hal Jordan has a cousin named Hal Jordan who looks like Hal Jordan but has the power to turn into electric waves. Someone needs to pay attention to poor little Air Wave. He should be showing up for Jordan family reunions. Maybe he can even hang out with Jason Todd or Vanessa Kapatelis as a forgotten sidekicks squad.

18. It’s absolutely criminal that the fandom has been sleeping on…

Hal Jordan’s love of classic literature, jazz, and nature hikes. Back in the Silver Age, he could quote Shakespeare and Norman Mailer. He also refined the translation of the GL Oath in English to make it rhyme. Nobody expects him to be well-read or sophisticated, but he can be in the right circumstances. He also loves being out in nature, especially alongside Ollie. It ties into his image as a lonely drifter.

They’re also sleeping on his pansexuality. Hal should be pansexual to an extent that his fellow humans wouldn’t understand. He’s been attracted to beings that wouldn’t fit a human definition of attractiveness. He’s probably slept with John Constantine (and regretted it). Hal’s pansexuality should be more than just a joke about his extreme horniness. It should be an examination of how he can enter into an intimate romantic relationship with someone his friends wouldn’t expect.

22. Your favorite part of canon that everyone else ignores

The Marv Wolfman run of Green Lantern. For me, that was the best writing Hal ever had. It showed him as a multifaceted character juggling problems both as a person and a hero, and somehow making it work through a combo of determination and ingenuity, and both the main story and the backup spotlighting the sheer diversity found in the GL Corps.

Also I love Hal’s friendship with Tom Kalmaku, with the exception of the racist nickname Tom had in the Silver Age. The story where Tom used Hal’s ring to resurrect Kilowog was one of the best GL stories.

25. Common fandom complaint that you’re sick of hearing

Hal Jordan is boring. He’s really only bland when Silver Age fanboys like Geoff Johns write him. If you look at his cumulative history, he has his share of legit flaws acknowledged in-story and his share of tragedy and/or failure. He’s one of DC’s most prominent heroes, but is regularly homeless and unemployed when he’s not off in space. Just that should be some food for thought. I personally think one can make a case for him having chronic depression, as a lot of his behavior would fit the symptoms. Acknowledging that his recklessness, his self-destructiveness, his inability to prioritize work or relationships as needed, and his mood swings from time to time are an actual issue instead of just personality quirks would actually add to the character and make him less of a bland Silver Age archetype.

Like Hank Pym, I think Hal Jordan deserves a chance to address his issues and get the help he actually needs, instead of doing as he does in canon and bottling the pain up until he starts lashing out and attempting homicide or even self-harm.

For the choose violence ask game. (1, 3, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 18, 22, 25) for Hank Pym and Hal Jordan.

There's so much I want to say about both these characters that I'm gonna do answers for Hank, and then answers for Hal later.

Warning: potential fandom-enraging takes ahead.

Hank Pym

The character everyone gets wrong

Domestic abuser is not the be-all end-all of Hank Pym's character, but it can't be discounted either, because he's not just the sweet, sad, relatable guy most of his fandom find him to be. Hank is the sum of all his parts. Partly because of the writers' divided interpretations of him, Hank is a person who will realize his mistake, work very hard to ensure they never happen again, make a lot of progress, but then hits a point where he stops watching himself and backslides. His compassion, courage, and patience are real, but so is his insecurity, jealousy, and occasional moments of self-centeredness or self-destructiveness. Once he gets too comfortable in a romantic relationship, everything starts being about his needs and his comfort level, with him not noticing whether or not he could make his partners uncomfortable. To his credit, if they point this out, he usually does apologize. (For example, proposing marriage to Jan on the date of their original anniversary) He's also capable of being toxic and spreading his misery to others, especially during a depressed episode, such as his attempt to destroy almost all AI in Rage of Ultron. There's moments when he feels entitled to acceptance in the superhero community, if not also to forgiveness. He also built a prison where shrunken supervillain inmates are terrorized by ants serving as guards, and named it Lang Memorial Penitentiary, presumably because he and Jan found it funny. That said, understanding and dealing with his own flaws makes him very forgiving and empathetic toward others, even those his fellow heroes would consider lost causes.

3. Screenshot or description of the worst take you’ve seen on tumblr

Anything that considers Janet Van Dyne responsible for the marital abuse she suffered, or that considers her as THE toxic one in her marriage with Hank Pym. Just during the marriage itself, Jan was as supportive as she could be, given the constraints of being written during the 80s. It was Hank who was too prideful to admit he had problems as their marriage decayed. Both of them made mistakes and mistreated each other here and there, but it's ultimately Hank who did worse.

7. What character did you begin to hate not because of canon but because how how the fandom acts about them?

Hank Pym, but it's more of a love-hate-obsession for him. Most of the Hank Pym fandom tends to defend him and use him as mental health advocacy. They're right that Hank is struggling, and he is relatable, but he's also a grown man with his own agency and flaws that don't stem from his bipolar disorder. Also, just because of the changing times, characters in his same position, such as Moon Knight and Hank's own daughter, are shown seeking out therapy and a support network to handle their conditions responsibly. Hank is consistently portrayed as someone who, due to both pride and bad experiences with SHIELD handlers, refuses to do that. I hope that when Marvel does bring him back, they'll address that point. I like Hank Pym for both his virtues and his flaws, and if Marvel lets him deal with his condition responsibly, I'll probably stop emphasizing his flaws.

8. Common fandom opinion that everyone is wrong about

Hank doesn't want to be an Avenger and/or Jan is always dragging him into superheroics when he's more comfortable in a lab. Hank does want to be an Avenger. Moreover, he wants to fit in as an Avenger. He wants to be as impressive and as powerful as the rest of this cool crowd, or at least, he wants to find a niche and be useful. Hank is a person who expresses affection through practical measures, like nursing people when they're sick, or providing them with the info and tech they need to get something done. Tied into this is his low self-esteem where he thinks that if he stops being useful, his friends will no longer want to be around him. That's why finding out Iron Man is Tony Stark proves to be so devastating for him -- he's no longer sure why his cooler and better friends keep him around. It's also why he keeps on redefining himself -- he's trying to be accepted and fit in. It's true Hank has taken physical and mental health sabbaticals, but the Avengers, as strange and stressful as they are, are his only friends outside of colleagues like Bill Foster. Hank needs the Avengers to be his support system, and he definitely wants them in his life, even though he's nervous about how he can keep up with their pace.

Another opinion is that Hank is bad about expressing affection and attraction. Like I said, he expresses affection through practical measures. He is bad about doing emotional labor and remembering comfort zones, more than even Marvel's other geniuses, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a love language. He's not a smooth talker and he's an introvert, but he can be deeply romantic. He lets Maria Trovaya's memory as well as Jan's memory cast shadows over his heart long after their presumed deaths. He remembers special dates and anniversaries and always tries to do something special for his loved ones to commemorate the occasion. He does spend a lot of time in his lab, and his passions are primarily that of the mind and not the body, but he has no problem initiating intimacy with either Jan or Tigra, or even seeking out one-night-stands. I actually think there's moments when he's more uninhibited than his teammates, especially if he's swinging toward a manic episode, and he's demanding some intimacy from his significant other even though they're in a public place (in the worst case scenario, they can just shrink down and hide in plain sight).

9. Worst part of canon

How Janet was killed off and Hank was essentially rewarded with Tigra's love in the wake of Secret Wars. Sorry to the Tigerant shippers out there, I have some issues with that plot development. For me, it feels skeevy that Hank Pym is essentially given a fresh start because Jan isn't around to make him feel guilty about his mistakes anymore. It gets worse because Tigra was originally a second-wave feminist character. Even before her transformation into a weretiger, she was strong, determined, and refused to be put down or infantilized by the men around her. Her original character arc in West Coast Avengers was about her reconciling the two sides of her soul and realizing that her Greer side wasn't a weak little woman who needed men like Hank to comfort and protect her. Her Avengers Academy years were alright, since she was a good teacher and a good mother, but she also didn't feel like the way Tigra should be. All her edges were filed off and she became an accessory for Hank Pym's happiness. However, I do concede that they seem happy together and fans want their favs to be happy.

As it pertains to Hank himself, his not-quite death in Rage of Ultron. He died almost as an afterthought, and he's only ambiguously dead because Ultron fused into his body. If Marvel really wanted to retire him, they could've chosen a better way to do it.

10. Worst part of fanon

Anything that posits that Hank, Greer, William, and Nadia should form a happy little family without Janet being involved. Jan is Nadia's mother in everything besides biology. Just because Hank is Nadia's biological father and Nadia wants to meet him doesn't mean she should be cut off from Jan. And Jan being Jan probably means she has a split custody agreement set up and ready to go just to prepare for eventualities.

Also, the opinion that Hank, Greer, and William would continue to have a happy, drama-free relationship as time went on. Personally, I think that Hank's insecurities need to be taken into account. His original conflict with Jan leading into his manic episodes was that she was richer, more successful, and performed better in battle than he did. Even if he's gotten past most of his toxic masculinity by now, he still needs to be careful about backsliding. In a way, Greer really is perfect for him because of her lack of employment or respect from the hero community at large means she never triggers his insecurities. He doesn't feel an obligation to respect her or compete with her the way he would with Jan. Greer, being the free spirit and semi-loner she is, also doesn't need Hank's attention or emotional labor to keep loving him. She can just drift in and out of his life as needed. Of course, she might have some strong opinions if she thinks Hank doesn't respect her. There's also the issue that Hank and Greer are from two different worlds, even more so than him and Jan. Sooner or later, as William begins dealing with his cat soul and cat instincts, Hank will want to impose some sort of discipline while Greer wants to give him space to figure it out on his own like she did back in the day. And that would lead to conflict. On the other hand, Hank and Jan would mostly agree as to how to coparent Nadia. I also think that William is mostly his mother's son, so while he would always love Hank as his dad, there would be a gulf between them where they don't share very many interests and thus can't really understand each other. If you factor in Moon Knight, William might vibe more with him as they both understand the thrill of the hunt, and Hank would really start feeling competitive.

12. The unpopular character that you actually like and why more people should like them

Hank is a niche character in and of himself, and I wish more people would love him with all his flaws attached. He's a bit of a paradox, both an ant of a man and someone who casts a long shadow. There's a lot to hate about him, for obvious reasons, like being selfish and insecure. But there's also a lot to love about him, like his curiosity and idealism and his compassion for even the smallest creatures, such as his ants. You can't call him a good person, but he's still a well-rounded character. I also like Eric O'Grady and find him a very distinct character. Like Hank, he's heavily flawed, maybe even more than his predecessor, but he still tries to better himself. He still learns something about letting go of his selfishness and being a hero. Eric's original death was being crushed to death like an ant while protecting a child. Regardless of Remender's writing quality, I can appreciate that he did find the courage to step up and sacrifice himself when cowardice is something he struggled with for his entire existence.

18. It’s absolutely criminal that the fandom has been sleeping on…

Both of the other Pym-Van Dyne kids. There's William Grant Nelson, Hank and Tigra's son, of course, but there's also Katie Summers, Jan's daughter with Alex Summers. There's a lot of stories you could get out of them. Katie was stolen from her father's arms by Kang the Conqueror when the Avengers needed to go back in time and erase the bad future that she was born in. Kang's child-rearing methods leave a lot to be desired because he typically dumps children in specifically selected bad future timelines that traumatize them into hating everyone they used to love, like Black Bolt's son Ahura being made to slaughter his own ancestors across time or Archangel's twins being thrown into a mutant concentration camp. How would Hank, Jan, and Nadia deal with Jan's daughter as Kang's angry and traumatized lieutenant? And for William, I've already talked about how I think he and his father might not always understand each other, but there's also the issue of his dad not just being his dad anymore. In a blended family scenario, Hank is also Nadia's dad and Katie's stepdad of sorts. How would William handle not being able to monopolize his father anymore, especially when Nadia shares more of his interests? And for that matter, how does Nadia deal with Jan having a daughter of her own, a daughter that she deeply missed for a long time?

Also, Marvel should hurry up and let Jan design a toyline with Hank's help. She can design the dolls' looks and Hank can help build the miniature accessories.

22. Your favorite part of canon that everyone else ignores

Hank Pym has hobbies that aren't just science! He plays the piano, snaps candid photos, watches anime, enjoys junk food, and he and Jan both collect stamps. And for the record, back in the Tales to Astonish era, Jan was always trying her hand at stand-up comedy by telling ironic horror stories to people she hung out with. Her performances rarely went over well, especially not with Hank. I like the idea that he and Jan held open mic nights for the Avengers or attended fandom conventions together, because couples need to share some hobbies. He's also good at barbecue, so I imagine he cooked for Greer sometimes.

And neither here nor there, but Hank, Jan and Greer are all characters with horror roots. Hank starts out as a sci-fi horror protagonist, an arrogant scientist whose experiment backfires. He then becomes the psycho-horror villain of Jan's story in the lead-in to their divorce. Tigra was modified from standard superhero The Cat into a horror B-movie style weretiger that was at once attractive, exotic, and dangerous. Someday, these three should deal with some horror story tropes...

25. Common fandom complaint that you’re sick of hearing

Hank deserves to forgiven for his mistakes with no strings attached because the likes of Carol Danvers and Tony Stark have done worse and been accepted back into the fold with a slap on the wrist. If anything, Hank was forgiven and accepted back with no boundaries attached way too easily during the Stern-Englehart era. By the end of Trial of Yellowjacket, he does have a moment of clarity where he apologizes to Jan, but his other teammates like Cap were trying to apologize to him for not doing more to help him. He was then quickly invited back to be the Avengers West Coast's tech support, and while he still felt guilt and self-hatred, most of his friends, his ex-wife included, forgave him for his misbehavior as Yellowjacket. It got to the point that trying to finally hold him accountable and give him harsher consequences 20 years down the road instead looked jarring and out of character. Carol and Tony, for their parts, were let off easily, but Tony, at least, went on an apology tour and deal with some animosity from his friends for a while. To date, the only Avenger who made a big mistake and still gets overshadowed by it, but deals with it responsibly by accepting her own guilt in the matter and accepting that people are right to view her with suspicion until she proves that she has well and truly changed is Scarlet Witch. Hank always falls short of that final part, because there are moments when he thinks he has indeed done enough to deserve unconditional forgiveness.

I do think Hank deserves a chance to be forgiven for his mistakes, but I also think that he needs to accept responsibility for himself, mostly by getting himself the right sort of treatment to make sure his manic or depressive episodes won't overpower him again.

#Hal Jordan #ask game

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