#clonophobia

[aikoiya]

DPxDC Rant - Superman Isn't A Clonophobe

Hey, this is basically just a compilation of all my thoughts in regards to the subject of Clark being a clonophobe & a bad person from @nelkcats & @wolfeyedwitch's posts on the subject.

A lot of this is just retreading old ground, but I realized that I don't have a post of my own on the subject. I thought I did, but I don't. So, this is just me putting it all out there in one spot. I might add onto it later, but right now, this is good enough.

---

I think Supes is a genuinely nice guy & if someone were to actually try & talk to him about it, he could get to a point where he realizes that he was wrong about Kon & be genuinely apologetic.

Like, everyone's so busy demonizing him over the clone thing that a lot of people don't look at the situation from his perspective.

I just... I guess that I see it as victim-blaming. Not that Connor isn't also a victim, but Lex stole Clark's DNA without his permission & used it to create another person who he wanted to use against Superman. That's basically baby-trapping which is a thing that legit happens & it isn't right.

Woman who impregnated self with stolen semen from billionaire wins child support battle (vanguardngr.com)

So, yes! If you're pro-choice, but also think that the man should pay child support even if he never wanted the kid or you think that Supes shouldn't be allowed to say that he doesn't want Connor in his life, then that is both hypocritical, sexist, & misandristic.

At the same time, Supes' situation could also be considered analogous to a rape victim being forced to keep the baby & raise it despite having been so thoroughly traumatized by the experience.

Like, women these days can freely get abortions or give their kids up for adoption when the abortion doesn't work & it's considered brave & even merciful, but when Clark is put in the exact same position & he doesn't want anything to do with Connor, he's a horrible clonophobe?? Yes, it's horrible, but there is a definite double standard there.

Hell, there are even people these days debating if it's moral for a woman to tell the doctors not to aide the baby when the abortion does fail! And in California, a bill was suggested that would make it perfectly legal for a woman to just up & decide to let her child, one alive outside the womb & no longer attached to the mother, to starve to death if she decides she doesn't want to be a mother anymore despite her life in no way being in danger from the child & adoption being an option! It's just... frivolous!!

And that's perfectly fine, apparently!

Yet, a man who doesn't want to be a father is forced to provide child support? There are even situations where a woman knows that the baby isn't his, but tricks him into thinking it is in order to get that sweet, sweet child support.

(4) How common is it for a woman to intentionally get pregnant to trap a man? Do you know anyone this has happened to? - Quora

You can't deny that it happens! Yet, *nasally voice* oh, the man's responsible. He shouldn't have had sex with her if he didn't want a kid. He did that to her! He got her pregnant! Nyeh-nyeh-nyeh-nyeh-nyeh!

*normal voice* Good grief, why the double standards?

If the man is responsible because if he didn't want a baby, he shouldn't have been having sex, then the same is true of women. If they didn't want kids, then they shouldn't have been having sex either! Period!

Like, don't get me wrong, Clark is absolutely wrong for the way he treated Connor, but it's still understandable why he reacted that way. He was hurt!

Again, it's by no means a good reason to act that way, but it is a reason & an understandable one at that.

Clark is a down home, salt of the earth, good ol' boy & I just think that if the JL had informed Ma & Pa of the situation, then things would've been sorted out much sooner. They'd straighten their boy out quick! And if Clark is still determined to be stubborn & hard-headed about it, then if nothing else, I can see Ma & Pa taking Connor in & giving him all the love he deserves.

To me, this is the Superman I know:

And this is why I think that people are too hard on Supes:

All-in-all, I don't think that he'd be opposed to all clones. Rather, I feel like he has a problem with Kon, specifically, for a very misguided reason.

Besides, Danny has no room to criticize because even though he reacted differently to the revelation of Dani's existence, he is also canonically known to misplace his aggressions. It's even made into a joke in the show. Like, they verbally address it!

One such instance is in the Fright Before Christmas episode where he says that he hates Christmas, but by seeing his reasoning, you realize that it isn't actually Christmas itself that he's angry at, but his parents who argue constantly during Christmas & allow said arguing to ruin the Christmases of those around them.

And, you can pretend that this wasn't a situation of misplaced aggression, but keep in mind that he went to the Ghost Zone to destroy a bunch of Christmas items to take out his aggression on the holiday even though it's just the background for the source of his anger. Then, upon learning that the book he'd destroyed was a Christmas one, his apology turned to satisfaction! He also said so himself!

That's a form of misplaced aggression.

Displaced aggression is defined as "occurs when an animal or human is fearful or agitated by external stimuli, a provocation, or perception, but is unable or unwilling to direct their aggression toward the stimulus. The aggressor may direct aggression toward whoever is nearest." That's exactly what's happening here!

I theorize that he subconsciously feels like it's preferable to hate Christmas than to actually confront his parents' negligence & be angry at them.

Keep in mind, he never blames his parents for their unsafe practices that lead to him half dying.

Danny points his frustrations towards those who aren't at fault all the time. Maybe not in the case of Dani, but definitely in other situations.

---

Furthermore, I also feel like I have to clarify that I grew up watching Smallville, which is sort of a prequel to the Superman saga.

And, in it, (spoiler warning) for a lot of the earlier seasons, Clark & Lex are friends. Like, legit good friends.

So, that probably colors my perspective as, from my point of view, being betrayed so severely by someone who was once your friend hurts a whole hell of a lot worse than someone who's always been your enemy. Especially when you've got as big of a heart with as much love in it as Clark. When you love so freely, it's easy to get hurt & in a lot of ways, it hurts worse when those you trust most betray you.

Also, Smallville? Fun show, ya'll should totally check it out.

Now, anyway, I admit that this probably isn't the case with most iterations of Superman, but I can't help that this was one of my primary sources on the characters' personalities growing up & as a result, I do tend to operate under the assumption that this is his backstory.

Because of this, I might be a little biased & in some way think that Clark might've been experiencing that betrayal by Lex all over again &, to be fair, knowing that he hurt Supes so bad, even if it's only on an emotional level, would absolutely thrill Lex & Clark probably knows that.

Like, I wouldn't be surprised if Clark had mostly gotten over the betrayal, but then this shit happens & it's like the wound is fresh all over again.

So, in this situation, Clark has nowhere to really put all that anger than on Connor, which is wrong, but also understandable.

Because, he can't even let Lex know he's upset because it'd just make the other man happy. Why would Superman give him that satisfaction? In other words, he can't really hurt Lex beyond some annoyance which sucks.

On the other hand, Danny & Vlad were never friends, the millionaire's dumbass monologue about killing Jack & marrying Maddie nipped that prospect in the bud in the literal first episode that he appeared in. So discovering that the guy cloned him didn't hurt Danny practically at all other than the violation itself because he'd already dismissed Vlad as a creepy frootloop.

Meanwhile, from the very start, Vlad wanted Danny as his son, so in some form or fashion, he does care & place value on him. It might be a selfish sort of value, but it is value nonetheless. He obviously has zero idea how to show that care & when he tries, it comes out very toxic & harmful, but he does care. Thus, when Danny rejects him, it hurts. And, somewhere, Danny probably knows this.

Which is why he's free to point his anger at Vlad rather than Dani. To point all that anger & frustration at exactly the person that was responsible. Clark doesn't get to do that. At least, not to the extent that he probably wants to.

Whereas in the case of the Christmas debacle, Danny doesn't want to hate his parents, so he finds it easier to take that frustration out on Christmas because Christmas has never made him happy & won't have the same emotional fallout to it that confronting the fact that his parents are selfish & self-absorbed & negligent would.

Because of this, having Danny lecture Superman on not misplacing his anger actually makes him come across as a bit of a hypocrite & it isn't fair because I have yet to see this point brought up in fics. Instead, Danny is portrayed as completely in the right! Like, it'd be one thing if their version of Danny had grown out of displacing his anger & was even trying to actually move on from it.

Hell, they could even make it so Danny is lecturing Supes from the perspective of someone who used to do it himself & is working on getting better at it. But they don't & instead protray him as holier than thou.

At the end of the day, I just don't think that a lot of fic writers, at least, none of the ones I've read about, give the situation the nuance it deserves, instead going the easy route & turning Superman into an irredeemable asshole when he really isn't. Not usually anyway.

In this situation, yeah, he was kinda a dick, but there's a reason & I feel like people either ignore that fact completely or just say "not good enough."

Hell, they don't even take into account the fact that even in Young Justice, where he's an ass, he doesn't stay that way! He eventually accepts Connor, so why harp on him about it!?

Edit: Someone seemed to be under the impression that I thought Superman had it worse. To the contrary, he has it way better.

This isn't a victim contest, it's about understanding why the characters might've reacted the way they did & that has nothing to do with who has it worse.

You don't have to have a bad life to react badly to things. It's all in how you process information & experiences.

Clark just processed the situation in a very bad way in this particular instance.

The point was to show how the 2 aren't all that different. I can easily see the 2's reactions being switched in the right circumstances.

The thing is, I don't understand why not knowing that Connor was also genetically created from Lex would somehow stop Superman from reacting the way he did towards Connor because didn't he know that he himself was Connor's genetic template from pretty much the beginning?

Plenty of people react badly to having a kid regardless of who the other parent was.

DP Character HC Masterlist

[orangesideirrational]

my clonophobia is acting up. :/

[estellardreams]

Heyo New Tachophobia AU Just Dropped

Meet J.D. Nick, or Junior Doctor Nicholas Peterson. The assistant to Doctor Aster Starline.

Basically Tachophobia up to the point where Starline decides to turn Sonic into his personal assistant rather than just an ordinary Mobian.

And unintentionally make one of the most unhealthy mobians in existence:

Follows orders to a fault

Uses Warp Topaz pocket watch to hypnotize others. It's also used to keep him from slipping out of his own programming.

Repressed his speed. Got retractable rollerblades instead.

Addicted to coffee. Like, EXTREMELY.

The worst sleep schedule ever. Even worse than Starline's and Tails', and that's saying a LOT.

Usually does paperwork while Starline is on the field.

Has a very firey temper. You tick him off, he goes nuclear on you.

Needs glasses.

Wears makeup he does himself.

Got bangs that look snazzy. Also likes curling them.

Got manipulated into thinking Sonic is his twin brother whom he grew jealous of and chose to side with Starline to overtake him. Only to discover that Sonic the Hedgehog is "dead".

Extremely persistent. Will stop at NOTHING until he finishes his work.

[boyheros]

ok here's a poll I will do. in my OC story there's clones blah blah so there's anti-clone bias (and also straight up fear of being cloned unwillingly) SO I'm inventing a phobia word bc there doesn't really seem to be one ? also I do what I want.

OPTION 1: "CLONOPHOBIA". cuz they're called clones. you understand. although the word clone originates in botany and means twig which is fine but. whatever. this is also like the only thing that pops up if you try searching the fear of clones lol

OPTION 2: "SIMILIPHOBIA". based on the word "facsimile" which means "make (facere) same/like (similis)". Also in-universe the project that resulted in clones being real was called "project similis," so I feel it could be likely that the hate/fear word was based on that (technically in-universe 'clones' and 'human facsimiles' are different things but the general public does not know that so. ignore.)

[noodlepai]

I am once again thinking of Beta eteled

But this time I'm thinking of him and eteled singing Diagraphephobia together

But no no it's not actually called Diagraphephobia but is instead called Clonophobia now

And that really slow bit in the somewhat mid section of the song, where it shows The Hallway? I like to imagine that at that part, they're both falling in a black void, with the background occasionally showing moments that eteled has been in/scenes from the animatic, in a sort of fly by credit style as the both of them just continue to fall past them, all moments that eteled has had, not Beta eteled, because he was forgotten and nobody cares about him, so it's kind of a reflection of the revenge he wants to inflict

[aikoiya]

DPxDC Rant - Superman Isn't A Clonophobe

Hey, this is basically just a compilation of all my thoughts in regards to the subject of Clark being a clonophobe & a bad person from @nelkcats & @wolfeyedwitch posts on the subject.

A lot of this is just retreading old ground, but I realized that I don't have a post of my own on the subject. I thought I did, but I don't. So, this is just me putting it all out there in one spot. I might add onto it later, but right now, this is good enough.

---

I think Supes is a genuinely good man & if someone were to actually try & talk to him about it, he could get to a point where he realizes that he was wrong about Kon & be genuinely apologetic.

Like, everyone's so busy demonizing him over the clone thing that a lot of people don't look at the situation from his perspective.

I just... I guess that I see it as victim-blaming. Not that Connor isn't also a victim, but Lex stole Clark's DNA without his permission & used it to create another person who he wanted to use against Superman. That's basically baby-trapping which is a thing that legit happens & it isn't right.

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2019/11/woman-who-impregnated-self-with-stolen-semen-from-billionaire-wins-child-support-battle/

At the same time, Supes' situation could also be considered analogous to a rape victim being forced to keep the baby & raise it despite having been so thoroughly traumatized by the experience.

Like, women these days can freely get abortions or give their kids up for adoption when the abortion doesn't work & it's considered brave & even merciful, but when Clark is put in that exact same situation & he wants nothing to do with the kid, he's a horrible clonophobe??

And that's perfectly fine, apparently!

Hell, there are even people these days debating if it's moral for a woman to tell the doctors not to aid the baby when the abortion does fail! And in California, a bill was suggested that would make it perfectly legal for a woman to just up & decide to let her child starve to death if she decides she doesn't want to be a mother anymore!

FYI, if a woman aborts her baby & if fails. Guess what? That isn't her baby anymore because she basically just washed her hands of the kid. My body, my choice, right? Well, that baby is no longer part of her body, therefore she has no damn say in the matter.

Yet, a man who doesn't want to be a father, is forced to provide child support? There are even situations where a woman knows that the baby isn't his, but tricks him into thinking it is in order to get that sweet, sweet child support.

You can't deny that it happens! Yet, *nasally voice* oh, the man's responsible. He shouldn't have had sex with her if he didn't want a kid. He did that to her! He got her pregnant! Nyeh-nyeh-nyeh-nyeh-nyeh!

*normal voice* Good grief, why the double standards?

If the man is responsible because if he didn't want a baby, he shouldn't have been having sex, then the same is true of women. Doubly so, in fact! Whether or not you like it, women are the gatekeepers of their bodies. If it isn't rape, then the consequences of sex mostly falls on her! If she didn't want kids, then she shouldn't have been having sex either!

Like, don't get me wrong, Clark is absolutely wrong for the way he treated Connor, but it's still understandable why he reacted that way. He was hurt!

Again, it's by no means a good reason to act that way, but it is a reason & an understandable one at that.

I just think that if the JL had informed Ma & Pa of the situation, then things would've been sorted out much sooner. They'd straighten their boy out quick! And if Clark is still determined to be stubborn & hard-headed about it, then if nothing else, I can see Ma & Pa taking Connor in & giving him all the love he deserves.

To me, this is the Superman I know:

And this is why I think that people are too hard on Supes:

All-in-all, I don't think that he'd be opposed to all clones. Rather, I feel like he has a problem with Kon, specifically, for a very misguided reason.

Besides, Danny has no room to criticize because even though he reacted differently to the revelation of Dani's existence, he is also canonically known to misplace his aggressions. It's even made into a joke.

One such instance is in the Fright Before Christmas episode where he says that he hates Christmas, but by seeing his reasoning, you realize that it isn't actually Christmas itself that he's angry at, but his parents who argue constantly during Christmas & allow said arguing to ruin the Christmases of those around them.

And, you can pretend that this wasn't a situation of misplaced aggression, but keep in mind that he went to the Ghost Zone to destroy a bunch of Christmas items to take out his aggression on the holiday even though it's just the background for the source of his anger. Then, upon learning that the book he'd destroyed was a Christmas one, his apology turned to satisfaction! He also said so himself!

That's a form of misplaced aggression.

Displaced aggression is defined as "occurs when an animal or human is fearful or agitated by external stimuli, a provocation, or perception, but is unable or unwilling to direct their aggression toward the stimulus. The aggressor may direct aggression toward whoever is nearest." That's exactly what's happening here!

I theorize that he subconsciously feels like it's preferable to hate Christmas than to actually confront his parents' negligence & be angry at them.

Keep in mind, he never blames his parents for their unsafe practices that lead to him half dying.

Danny points his frustrations towards those who aren't at fault all the time. Maybe not in the case of Dani, but definitely in other situations.

---

Furthermore, I also feel like I have to clarify that I grew up watching Smallville, which is sort of a prequel to the Superman saga.

And, in it, (spoiler warning) for a lot of the earlier seasons, Clark & Lex are friends. Like, legit good friends.

So, that probably colors my perspective as, from my point of view, being betrayed so severely by someone who was once your friend hurts a whole hell of a lot worse than someone who's always been your enemy. Especially when you've got as big of a heart with as much love in it as Clark. When you love so freely, it's easy to get hurt & in a lot of ways, it hurts worse when those you trust most betray you.

Also, Smallville? Fun show, ya'll should totally check it out. (Also, Tom Wellings is super hot in it. <3)

Now, anyway, I admit that this probably isn't the case with most iterations of Superman, but I can't help that this was one of my primary sources on the characters' personalities growing up.

Because of this, I might be a little biased & in some way think that Clark might've been experiencing that betrayal by Lex all over again &, to be fair, knowing that he hurt Supes so bad, even if it's only on an emotional level, would absolutely thrill Lex & Clark probably knows that.

Like, I wouldn't be surprised if Clark had mostly gotten over the betrayal, but then this shit happens & it's like the wound is fresh all over again.

So, in this situation, Clark has nowhere to really put all that anger than on Connor, which is wrong, but also understandable.

Because, he can't even let Lex know he's upset because it'd just make the other man happy. Why would Superman give him that satisfaction? In other words, he can't really hurt Lex beyond some annoyance which sucks.

On the other hand, Danny & Vlad were never friends, the millionaire's dumbass monologue about killing Jack & marrying Maddie nipped that prospect in the bud in the literal first episode that he appeared in. So, discovering that the guy cloned him didn't hurt Danny practically at all other than the violation itself because he'd already dismissed Vlad as a creepy frootloop.

Meanwhile, from the very start, Vlad wanted Danny as his son, so in some form or fashion, he does care about him. He obviously has zero idea how to show that care & when he tries, it comes out very toxic & harmful, but he does care. Thus, when Danny rejects him, it hurts. And, somewhere, Danny probably knows this.

Which is why he's free to point his anger at Vlad rather than Dani. To point all that anger & frustration at exactly the person that was responsible. Clark doesn't get to do that. At least, not to the extent that he probably wants to.

Whereas in the case of the Christmas debacle, Danny doesn't want to hate his parents, so he finds it easier to take that frustration out on Christmas because Christmas has never made him happy & won't have the same emotional fallout to it that confronting the fact that his parents are selfish & self-absorbed & negligent would.

Because of this, having Danny lecture Superman on not misplacing his anger actually makes him come across as a bit of a hypocrite & it isn't fair because I have yet to see this point brought up in fics. Instead, Danny is portrayed as completely in the right! Like, it'd be one thing if their version of Danny had grown out of displacing his anger & was even trying to actually move on from it.

Hell, they could even make it so Danny is lecturing Supes from the perspective of someone who used to do it himself & is working on getting better at it. But they don't & instead portray him as holier than thou.

At the end of the day, I just don't think that a lot of fic writers, at least, none of the ones I've read about, give the situation the nuance it deserves, instead going the easy route & turning Superman into an asshole when he really isn't. Not usually anyway.

In this situation, yeah, he was kinda a dick, but there's a reason & I feel like people either ignore that fact completely or just say "not good enough."

Hell, they don't even take into account the fact that even in Young Justice where he's an ass, he doesn't stay that way! He eventually accepts Connor, so why harp on him about it!?

Edit: Someone seemed to be under the impression that I thought Superman had it worse. To the contrary, he has it way better.

This isn't a victim contest, it's about understanding why the characters might've reacted the way they did & that has nothing to do with who has it worse.

You don't have to have a bad life to react badly to things. It's all in how you process information & experiences.

Clark just processed the situation in a very bad way in this particular instance.

The point was to show how the 2 aren't all that different. I can easily see the 2's reactions being switched in the right circumstances.

DP Character HC Masterlist

---

Re-Post: My original post of this was suddenly taken down without any warning as to why.

Like, there was no notification whatsoever! Just gone! No explanation!

Re-Post Edit: The original is back, but it's still suspicious that it just suddenly effed off, so I'm putting a link to it here, just in case:

[the-sky-queen]

I LOVE HIM SO MUCH OH MY GOODNESS XD XD XD

Heyo New Tachophobia AU Just Dropped

Meet J.D. Nick, or Junior Doctor Nicholas Peterson. The assistant to Doctor Aster Starline.

Basically Tachophobia up to the point where Starline decides to turn Sonic into his personal assistant rather than just an ordinary Mobian.

And unintentionally make one of the most unhealthy mobians in existence:

Follows orders to a fault

Uses Warp Topaz pocket watch to hypnotize others. It's also used to keep him from slipping out of his own programming.

Repressed his speed. Got retractable rollerblades instead.

Addicted to coffee. Like, EXTREMELY.

The worst sleep schedule ever. Even worse than Starline's and Tails', and that's saying a LOT.

Usually does paperwork while Starline is on the field.

Has a very firey temper. You tick him off, he goes nuclear on you.

Needs glasses.

Wears makeup he does himself.

Got bangs that look snazzy. Also likes curling them.

Got manipulated into thinking Sonic is his twin brother whom he grew jealous of and chose to side with Starline to overtake him. Only to discover that Sonic the Hedgehog is "dead".

Extremely persistent. Will stop at NOTHING until he finishes his work.

[boom-fanfic-a-latta]

Is Clonophobia even a real term? I don't know, and I don't care, this AU is epic

Heyo New Tachophobia AU Just Dropped

Meet J.D. Nick, or Junior Doctor Nicholas Peterson. The assistant to Doctor Aster Starline.

Basically Tachophobia up to the point where Starline decides to turn Sonic into his personal assistant rather than just an ordinary Mobian.

And unintentionally make one of the most unhealthy mobians in existence:

Follows orders to a fault

Uses Warp Topaz pocket watch to hypnotize others. It's also used to keep him from slipping out of his own programming.

Repressed his speed. Got retractable rollerblades instead.

Addicted to coffee. Like, EXTREMELY.

The worst sleep schedule ever. Even worse than Starline's and Tails', and that's saying a LOT.

Usually does paperwork while Starline is on the field.

Has a very firey temper. You tick him off, he goes nuclear on you.

Needs glasses.

Wears makeup he does himself.

Got bangs that look snazzy. Also likes curling them.

Got manipulated into thinking Sonic is his twin brother whom he grew jealous of and chose to side with Starline to overtake him. Only to discover that Sonic the Hedgehog is "dead".

Extremely persistent. Will stop at NOTHING until he finishes his work.