#chatlog: back to the future is bullshit

[multiverseofmiracleshq]

THIS POST CONTAINS SPOILERS FOR AVENGERS: ENDGAME !!

STAGE I | PART VIII ( back to the future is bullshit? ) → with tony and clint now in attendance, things are able to heat up for real as the group tests their time travel to see if the new quantum suits will work. aka, this is a make or break moment for the time heist.

THIS IS THE OFFICIAL COMPLETE CHAT LOG COVERAGE OF THE IC

TONY: Tony strutted through the facility, dragging pieces of equipment that went from over his shoulder onto the floor. He passed Thor, giving him a wink, and then continued on over to the talking furball. “Ratchet!” He shouted as he got closer. “How’s it going?”

ROCKET:  “it’s rocket!” he corrected him, mildly threatening him with the wrench in his hands. “and take it easy, you’re only a genius on earth pal!”

RHODES: The whole thing was a little crazy. Sure, Rhodey wore a suit of armor and flew around like  a living laser tag machine, but it was for a reason. Then again, the time travel was too. It was just a little hard to swallow. Seeing Lang in the mockup of the Quantum Suit with a Hulk on one side and a cybernetic alien on the other wasn’t as surprising as it once had been. “Time travel suit not bad.” He remarked as he entered the room.

SCOTT: Scott scrambled to take the Pym particles from Bruce's large green hands, "Hey hey hey! Easy-- easy!"

BRUCE: Bruce’s aggravatingly large thumbs were pushing the pym particles into Scott’s suit as if they were trying to fit an elephant into a dumbwaiter. “I’m being very careful,” he said with non-assuring confidence.

SCOTT: “No you’re being very hulky!”

BRUCE: He reared back, his voice rising defensively. “I am being careful!”

SCOTT: “These are Pym particles, alright?” he held up the vial for emphasis, “—and ever since Hank Pym got snapped out of existence, this is it! This is what we have. We’re not making any more!”

RHODES:  For a little man who was sometimes a regular sized man, Lang was flashing a lot of attitude. With his hands up in the symbolic ‘simmer’ gesture, Rhodey kept his voice even as he said, “Scott, calm down.”

SCOTT: “Sorry, we’ve got enough for one round trip each. That’s it, no do-overs— plus, two test runs,” he explained, placing the particles back in his own suit before accidentally activating the shrinking mechanism. Letting out a yell, he immediately returned to normal size, “One— test run." Hesitating another moment, Scott squeezed his eyes shut, fear coursing through his veins, "I'm not ready for this..."

RHODES: Rhodey just hung his head in an exasperated defeat.

CLINT: "I'm game," Clint responded, reclining against the doorway, "--I'll do it."

BRUCE: “Clint, now you're gonna feel a little discombobulated from the chronoshift. Don't worry about it.”

RHODES: Wait wait wait. Lemme ask you something.” Rhodey cut in partly as a thought crossed his mind. “If we can do this, y’know,” he gestured with his hands. “go back in time -- why don’t we just find baby Thanos, y’know and...” Unable to actually say it, Rhodey pantomimed tying a knot around a neck and pulling before holding his hands up in a what if?gesture.

BRUCE: Bruce got where Rhodes was coming from, but his charade was a little gruesome. “First of all, that’s horrible.”

RHODES: “It’s Thanos.” He rolled his eyes.

BRUCE:  “And secondly,” he ran right over Rhodes’ rebuttal. “time doesn’t work that way. Changing the past doesn’t change the future.” He said so pointedly, as if it were obvious information.

SCOTT: “Look we go back, we get the stones before Thanos gets them, Thanos doesn’t have the stones—” Scott said matter of factly.

RHODES: Lang got it. Rhodey held out a hand in his direction to drive the point home.

SCOTT: "Problem solved."

CLINT: "Bingo--" Clint muttered, nonplussed.

NEBULA: “That’s not how it works.” Nebula interjected as she worked on calibrating the suit. She had been listening and let them ramble on and on, but they were stuck in a concept that was completely false.

CLINT: “Well, that’s what I heard.”

BRUCE: “Wh-what by who? Who told you that?”

RHODES: “Star Trek, Terminator, TimeCop, Time After Time -” Rhodey began ticking off the films on each finger.

SCOTT: "Quantum Leap?"

RHODES: The list went on. He continued: “A Wrinkle in Time, Somewhere in Time -” 

SCOTT: "Hot Tub Time Machine...?" Scott added.

RHODES: “Hot tub time machine!” He piggy backed off of Lang. “Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure.” There were a lot of options and Rhodey was growing more assured in his argument with hand motions to prove it. “Basically, any movie that deals with time travel.”

SCOTT:  "Die Hard?" He continued, before immediately revoking his suggestion, "--no, that's not one of them."

RHODES: ...And their streak was over. That was getting ignored. “This is known.”

BRUCE: He splayed his arms out behind him, “I don’t know why everyone believes that, but it isn’t true. Think about it. If you travel to the past-“ he animated his words with his hands. “That past becomes your future. And your former present becomes the past. Which can’t now be changed by your new future.” His words were laden with passion and points.

NEBULA: “Exactly.” Nebula nodded. Bruce was the only one making complete sense.

SCOTT: “So Back to the Future’s a bunch of bullshit—?” Scott blinked, incredulous.

BRUCE: They were all standing around the platform now, eagerly anticipating the results of Tony’s additions. Clint was at the forefront, more than ready to take a mission that could end with him stuck in no man's land, or dead. “Okay Clint, we’re going in 3…2…1!”

CLINT: Bruce’s countdown ended, the Quantum tunnel whirred to life and Clint jumped— his body shrinking to sizes incomprehensible to the average human. What seemed like seconds later, the archer reappeared, breathing heavily and visibly shaken.9:01 PM

NATASHA: The second the machine stopped whirring and it was safe Natasha was leading the group as she ran up the ramp onto the - for lack of a better word - time machine. Her friend was on his knees and none of the sounds he was making sounded pleasant so she instantly dropped to his level and grabbed the quantum suit covered shoulders of Clint. “heyheyhey, look at me.” she took his face with her hands as the both stood. “Are you okay?” One hand tapped at his chest to try and center him.

Clint: He waved the baseball glove at Natasha mumbling, "It worked," before turning to the others, more confident now, "It worked."

[galaxyacerodoesart]

As I promised, more Sanderstuck Panel edits, this time featuring Remy, Emile and Dolian (AKA. Deceit) 

More about my Sanderstuck AU can be find under my sanderstuck tag HERE! And under read more, is the dialogue of the situation going on in the panel, in case anyone is interested in knowing what would be going on behind it, and a little more about some of the events in the AU! :o

If anyone seeing this would like to be tagged in any future Sanderstuck art, please let me know! 

DOLIAN: Let’s face it Princey, despite going around saying how strong and great you are, you are one of the weakest people in this team, and that’s just facts~ ROMAN: WHY YOU- DOLIAN: I mean, if we want to talk about power, Remy would be the most powerful being in this team, seeing he LITERALLY ascended to god status already and not only has ACTUAL powers, but is also pretty much immortal at this point. REMY: idk if you can call me powerful tho, i mean, i literally have no idea how i even reached god-tier gurl REMY: … I literally have no idea, one moment I was good old me, the other i was in a stone bed bleeding to death, and in one more I was back to life with this clothes and wind going wild all around me. REMY: so yeah, i don’t think i can take much credit? i don’t feel like a worked to reach this status or anything so- DOLIAN: Why, see?! Remy doesn’t even KNOW how he did it, and yet, there he is. Started from zero, all the way to hero. DOLIAN: While you are still aaaall the way down here. No powers, no powerful weapon, just the old pathetic Roman.  DOLIAN: I know you are trying to reach the god-tier status, don’t think no one noticed.  DOLIAN: you struggle and struggle, but still, at this rate you will probably be the last one to get any power. IF you even get it DOLIAN: You might just die before it, after all :) EMILE: NOW NOW EVERYONE! Let’s not say things like that, okay? Dol, we talked about this right? Everyone has their time! We can still do great despite not have ascended to god-tier, no problem! EMILE: There is no need to fight, we are ALL working together after all! And I know we will reach god-tier whenever we need to! The fact Remy had ascended already just means it was his time, even if he isn’t sure how he did it, and yet, it doesn’t mean he doesn’t have work to improvement, right?! Remy, you aren’t even entirely sure how you powers work, isn’t that true? REMY: i sure don’t. All I know is how to fly and i’m pretty sure that’s like, basic to literally any god-tier, not just because my aspect is breath.  EMILE: See? The fact he has ascended already, doesn’t put him in a pedestal! We can always improve, Remy surely still will, and who knows, perhaps he still won’t be sure how his powers work by the time Roman ascends. EMILE: But still, who says we even need to? I’m sure as long as we work our hardest and give our best, we can beat this game and reach peace! God-tier or not!  REMY: also i’m pretty sure i can still die? like, there is certain conditions, but i remember one of the lil carapace guys mentioning something REMY: i don’t really remember all they said tho, lil guy was talking pretty fast, like he had to get away from there quick, he just mentioned a clock and something like REMY: “Heroic” or “Just” death being the only way to get rid of me??? so yeah, i don’t really understand it, but there clearly is a way to get rid of someone even if they reached god-tier status REMY: so yeah. I definitely can stil die lol EMILE: See Dolian? Everyone still got to work hard to beat this, but most importantly, we have to stay together! We are a team, like it or not. DOLIAN: *sigh* Yes, yes… I get it. DOLIAN: … Doesn’t mean I am entirely wrong in what I said though…  DOLIAN: I still haven’t ascended to God-tier, but let’s not forget who was able to pull dear Virgil out of the void in the first place, hmm~? DOLIAN: Say Roman, where where you when Virgil was almost being consumed by the void? Crying in a corner faced with the reality of not being able to save him, or still trying to hold onto the idea you are the “leader” of this team? Because trying to get him out of there, you certainly were not.  DOLIAN: So really, do us all a favor, and stop trying so hard to be a leader for this team, you are far from one. ROMAN: … EMILE: Dolian, ple- DOLIAN: I’m sure Patton would be a better leader, and he literally doesn’t have the heart to even kill a single Imp, despite his life being at risk. EMILE: Dolian- DOLIAN: And I mean, Logan? That’s someone who knows what he is doing. I’m sure if anyone saw our team without knowing us before hand, they would be sure he was in charge here, because let’s be real…he is, Isn’t he~ EMILE: DOLIAN. THAT’S ENOUGH.  DOLIAN: I’m just- EMILE: PLEASE… Just…Please… I’M asking you to stop. You already made your point. DOLIAN: … DOLIAN: Sure. You are right Emile. There is no reason for me to keep beating a dead horse.  EMILE: Dol- DOLIAN: I’ll just go back to my room, like you said, I DID Make my point already. So, I’ll take my leave. See you all around~

—DOLIAN Left the conversation— 

EMILE: …I…I’m sorry Roman. It wasn’t right of him to say such things. I have been talking to him, I promise! He seems to be making progress every now and then, but suddenly out of nowhere he just- EMILE: …does things like that. ROMAN: …It’s not your fault Emile, it’s mine… He isn’t wrong after all. EMILE: Roman, no! Don’t let what he says get to you, it’s what he wants after all. And it is partly my fault, i’m his therapist after all… Got to take responsability for when he acts like this.  ROMAN: BUT STILL! What he said wasn’t a lie… I am not a leader, I act like one, but anyone in this place has more leadership than I could even dream of! And I HAVE been trying to reach God-tier, I thought- I think that perhaps then, I will be able to do more? I’m suppose to be the Space player of this team, one of the most important parts of the game, but all I do is mess things up! ROMAN: We almost lost the crucial part, that was our time player, but most importantly, OUR FRIEND because I was just thinking about me and trying to make ME be the big hero in this! ROMAN: The universe and everything we knew is GONE, and i keep acting like this is just any other game. If we fail, it’s game over forever. Everything is done for. And it will be all because I couldn’t stop to look around me. REMY: …Dude. REMY: even I know that is all bullshit REMY: pardon my potty mouth, btw REMY: but seriously. You? Not caring about others?? Stop believing Old Dolly lies, gurl REMY: you are putting yourself in the front to make sure no one you care about gets hurt REMY: sure, you messed up with V, but no one is saying you need to be perfect, nobody is perfect. Don’t let Hannah lie to you, she is full of lies.  REMY: you tried so much to get V away from the void, and kept keeping everyone spirits up when they started to think there was no way of doing it REMY: no joke, i’m almost sure even Pat was starting to give up on seeing Virgil again REMY: sure, in the end Dolly was the one to successfully bring Virgil back to us, but let’s be real. he have no idea how he did it, and probably only got as far as he did because of the natural connection with the void that he has for being both, a void player and a derse dreamer REMY: so yeah, don’t be so hard on yourself man, you might be making mistakes, but you are learning from them and improving every day REMY: you are doing pretty great, if we didn’t think so, someone would have said something already REMY: ya’know, someone that isn’t Dolly, lol  EMILE: I couldn’t have said better myself, Remy! ROMAN: I… Thank you guys. The support is appreciated… REMY: no worries R-man, we’re here for you~!  EMILE: Just keep believing in yourself Roman! You are a great leader! We are sure to beat this game and save everything! REMY: heck yeah, my man. ROMAN: I’ll make sure to remember that… Really, thank you, both of you… EMILE: You can count with us! 

—END OF CHATLOG.—

[simaethae]

That alien au is fantastic! it's so great and I want to know more of the plot

ldgblgb you’re assuming there is a plot and not, like, a series of bad excuses but thank you

anyway here’s the chatlog where we came up with it, warning for some nsfw and @yavieriel and i being nerds at length ^_^

simaethae: so what’s YOUR worst modern AU

[20:07] simaethae: i think i’ve read coffeeshop AUs in otherfandoms which talked about baking, which was their one redeeming feature

[20:10] Yavieriel: Coffeeshop AUs do have that redeemingfuture

[20:10] Yavieriel: (well, sometimes)

[20:10] simaethae: occasionally!

[20:10] Yavieriel: man there’s so many awful modern AUs tochoose from

[20:10] simaethae: oooh, sports AU. i know nothing aboutsports but i’m sure they have to exist

[20:12] Yavieriel: I’m not sure if it still counts as amodern AU, but for most what-the-fuck fandom trends, “the characters aremerpeople who are kept in captivity and forced to breed to produce mer-caviar,which is considered a culinary delicacy” has to win some kind of prize

[20:12] simaethae: oh my god

[20:12] Yavieriel: I’m trying to think how that would evenwork with Sauron and Tyelpe

[20:12] Yavieriel: suddenly Sauron is a lot moresympathetic?

[20:13] simaethae: i mean i would not exactly be AGAINSTsome xeno dubcon but the problem with AUs for the Silm is that without thecontext it’s really hard to get the characterisation remotely similar?

[20:13] Yavieriel: right, I was trying to think of some kindof.. parallels and

[20:13] Yavieriel: it very quickly turns into a completelydifferent dynamic

[20:14] simaethae: ….Sauron as the unethical scientistexperimenting on mer-Tyelpe. sexy bad experimentation. but that makesTyelpe…. kind of boringly passive?

[20:14] Yavieriel: Sauron as a traitor mer who’s beenselling other mers into captivity, maybe?

[20:14] simaethae: lmao

[20:15] simaethae: i still feel like that would be kind of adifferent dynamic tho

[20:15] Yavieriel: man one of the things that was reallystriking in the Strife of Truth with Art was how similar Sauron and Celebrimborstart sounding once you summarize too much and lose the context/details

[20:15] simaethae: bc External Threat?

[20:16] simaethae: yeah!!

[20:16] simaethae: i commented on how all the “whobetrayed whom” and “who stole knowledge/rings from whom” stuffwas getting super confused

[20:17] simaethae: which makes sense! especially when it’sbeen filtered through humans who’ve also been getting Sauron’s side of thestory

[20:17] Yavieriel: otoh in less-weird modern AUs, I feellike some kind of holiday-retail employment setting would be the meanest/mostinsulting to the characters

[20:17] simaethae: ahaha omg

[20:17] simaethae: but Sauron as the world’s worst managerwould be great. especially because he thinks he’s the best and has theflowcharts to prove it

[20:17] Yavieriel: at least in high school there’s the weirdsocial stuff where Sauron and/or Celebrimbor can have extravagant degrees ofinfluence over others

[20:18] Yavieriel: oh lord, yeah Sauron would be

[20:19] Yavieriel: although then I feel like Tyelpe has tobe, like, the other manager?  Or hisboss?  Everyone is baffled why theirgenuinely good boss decided to hire this asshole and thinks he’s so great

[20:19] simaethae: Tyelpe does a work placement with AngbandLLP, accidentally invents a way to improve [productivity metric] by 80%inbetween Sauron trying to do the good corporate mentor thing which, uh, doesnot exactly /not/ look like sexual harassment but Tyelpe isn’t sure he. minds?

[20:19] Yavieriel: [snorts]

[20:20] simaethae: it’s still not exactly getting theEregion dynamic tho is it

[20:20] Yavieriel: “is it sexual harassment if you’reinto it?”  "yes, but for thepeople around you instead"

[20:20] simaethae: lol yep

[20:20] Yavieriel: no, they’d need to be like…Tony-Stark-type genius inventor CEOs and Annatar is in disguise doing corporateespionage

[20:21] simaethae: oooh, yep

[20:22] simaethae: Tyelpe’s the Stark-type CEO and Annataris his terrifying PA, popular rumour has it that they’re sleeping together,Annatar started the rumour out of sexual frustration

[20:22] Yavieriel: the degree of influence and independenceand power they both have is just too high to really translate into being anysort of average person

[20:22] Yavieriel: [chokes]

[20:22] Yavieriel: does Tyelpe even notice that everyonethinks they’re sleeping together?

[20:23] Yavieriel: Annatar as secretly-evil!Pepper Potts,flame powers and all

[20:23] simaethae: yeah also realistically Annatar - doesn’twork for me very well as a human? because the bullshit he pulls is interestingif he’s a powerful alien who doesn’t get it, but would just be ordinarilyboring and shitty from a human :/

[20:23] simaethae: YEAH

[20:23] Yavieriel: right, if he’s human it’s just regularassholish-ness

[20:23] Yavieriel: shapeshifting alien Annatar?

[20:23] simaethae: …how would “secretly evil”even look in Marvel, all their governments are dying to be dictatorships anyway

[20:23] simaethae: yeah!!

[20:24] simaethae: i think you fixed it

[20:24] Yavieriel: if you go with an actual comic-book-typesetting that’s totally within bounds of plausible/normal

[20:24] simaethae: i think i’ve actually read fic along/vaguely/ similar lines involving Tony Stark and Loki, tho i might just befree-associating

[20:25] Yavieriel: keep the industrial espionage angleexcept Annatar was formerly like, Dr. Doom’s chief henchman?  Only he decided Tyelpe makes a much betterboss so Doom can go fuck himslef

[20:25] simaethae: shapeshifting evil alien Annatar decidesto work his way into a position of trust with Tyelpe, powerful CEO doing cleanenergy stuff, to get access to world leaders and work out how to work thesystem in advance of his bid for power

[20:25] Yavieriel: no I think I have too

[20:26] Yavieriel: or possibly we’re both free-associatingLise’s Steve/Loki series + all the Tony/Loki fic out there

[20:27] simaethae: Annatar is unavoidably distracted fromworld conquest because a) he kind of likes running a multinational company,it’s genuinely well-suited to his talents, and b) significant amounts of timewondering why Tyelperinquar won’t take the hint and importune his assistantalready

[20:27] simaethae: i think i actually still have thatbookmarked to read? but yeah

[20:28] Yavieriel: right, can’t Tyelpe at least be immoralenough to take some of the really blatant cues Annatar has been giving him

[…]

[20:44] simaethae: yeah, i was going to say Annatar would bereally great at running a big company, albeit partly by terrorising otherpeople into doing a good job and relentless delight in bureaucracy, so he’saccidentally damaged his prospects by making Tyelpe terrified he’ll quit

[20:44] Yavieriel: right, that time Annatar was running hishands of Tyelpe’s latest prototype and super into Tyelpe’s explanation of[obscure technical aspect of it] was honestly the closest he got to actuallypersuading Tyelpe to make a move

[20:44] simaethae: Tyelpe really likes being able to trustsomeone else to do the paperwork! what if he hits on Annatar and Annatarresigns and then he has to go back to filling in Form 33.C in triplicatehimself again!

[20:45] simaethae: :D Tyelpe is uncomfortably aware that hisfantasies about Annatar touching his engineering work are getting kind ofinappropriate

[20:45] Yavieriel: spend all that time actually managing hiscompany instead of inventing stuff and letting Annatar handle thelogistics?  The horror

[20:46] Yavieriel: (the potential for incredibly high-techbdsm sex toys in this scenario :smile: :smile: :D)

[20:46] simaethae: everyone else assumes they’re definitelyfucking and Tyelpe’s protests about how he would Never Do That are just areputation thing

[20:46] simaethae: (ohh, yes, excellent point!!)

[20:48] Yavieriel: people would be more concerned about thisin the general “unethical behavior from my employer” way except thatTyelpe has never even hinted at interest in anyone else, so everyone sort ofshrugs at it

[20:49] simaethae: also people who have actually met Annatartend to form a pretty accurate opinion of who would REALLY be more likely tosexually exploit who >_>

[20:49] Yavieriel: RIGHT

[20:49] Yavieriel: the handful of people who have consideredbringing this up with Annatar very quickly end up disabused of the notion thatAnnatar is being coerced in any way

[20:50] Yavieriel: if anyone’s getting coerced it’s them,they will be very happy to never be in the same room with Annatar again, thankyou

[20:51] Yavieriel: (obviously none of them had actually metAnnatar before, beyond possibly a polite handshake)

[20:51] simaethae: ….probably slightly more worried aboutTyelpe tho! Galadriel is one of the few people to be mostly sure they’re reallynot fucking, but it took some really embarrassingly conversations with Tyelpeto get there

[20:51] simaethae: yeah, or not in more than smileycorporate assistant persona :>

[20:53] Yavieriel: Galadriel is actually sure they’re notfucking and not entirely sure how she should feel about this, because on theone hand Annatar seems like a terrible choice, but on the other hand… Tyelpedoes need someone to take care of him, actually seems rather attached toAnnatar, and Annatar bizarrely enough seems to have some genuine feeling forTyelpe?

[20:53] simaethae: presumably it actually works out onceEvil Shapeshifting Alien invasion happens and Annatar changes sides orsomething because this was Not The Plan, he’s increasingly unsure what the planwas but it was Not This, but with some dramatic interludes in which no oneincluding Annatar is completely sure which side he’s on

[20:53] Yavieriel: why couldn’t her favorite cousin havebetter taste, she asks

[20:53] simaethae: yeah, Galadriel can’t stand Annatar butTyelpe seems…. happier?

[20:54] Yavieriel: right, like he’s definitely not on TeamSave The World, but he is on Team How Dare You Make My Boyfriend Unhappy andThreaten My Corporate Empire

[20:55] simaethae: or at least, happier when he’s aroundAnnatar, he gets this wistful look somtimes and she grits her teeth and tellsherself that bastard had better look after her cousin

[20:55] simaethae: yeah!

[20:55] simaethae: team How Dare You Touch What’s Mine :)

[20:56] simaethae: Annatar eventually gets fired, mayberehired, but also finally laid in the space of about an hour

[20:56] Yavieriel: tbh I think I read something like thatwith Superman and Lex Luthor, where Luthor ends up using his powers for goodbecause no one else is allowed to kill Superman and destroy Earth, how darethey

[20:56] simaethae: didn’t astolat maybe write some stuffalong those lines?

[20:56] Yavieriel: very probably

[20:57] Yavieriel: that would explain why I was reading it,usually I’m strictly team Superman/Batman

[20:57] simaethae: (so if Annatar’s actually a shapeshiftingalien I assume Tyelpe is. curious about the biology involved. he doesn’t wantto make Annatar feel as if Tyelpe’s not into his real form - if he has a realform, obviously this is purely in a spirit of scientific enquiry - )

[20:58] Yavieriel: yesssss

[20:59] Yavieriel: possibly there are tentacles involved:heart:

[21:03] Yavieriel: but definitely Weird Alien Biology,Tyelpe is very into this, Annatar finds it all fascinating and they mutuallyfind it really sexy when Annatar shows off his assorted alien features toTyelpe

[21:03] simaethae: yeah!

[21:04] simaethae: also Annatar being kind of - genuinelymoved by how into him Tyelpe is

[21:05] simaethae: turns out Tyelpe actually likes Annatarfor himself even when he forgets to constantly fake a more amenable persona??

[21:05] Yavieriel: right, and being surprised how much itmatters to him that Tyelpe does care about his not-human aspects

[21:05] simaethae: yesssss

[21:05] simaethae: Annatar wouldn’t have expected himself tocare!

[21:06] Yavieriel: right! He’s a shapeshifter by nature, it shouldn’t matter which form[s] hislover is attracted to they’re all his technically

[21:06] Yavieriel: but. Tyelpe is just into him, as a person, regardless

[21:06] simaethae: probably they go through kind of a weirdphase where Annatar’s like “so what would you like me to look liketonight” before they both work out that’s…. not really doing it foreither of them

[21:07] simaethae: (well, for Annatar maybe a /little/, but)

[21:07] Yavieriel: maybe Annatar’s native species is somekind of hyper-evolved octopus

[21:07] simaethae: ….i mean on the one hand excuse fortentacles, but on the other hand cephalopods ARE really good at camouflage??

[21:08] Yavieriel: it does a little for Annatar but he sortof realizes that it’s more “letting Tyelpe decide what he looks like/setrules” than the shapeshifting per se

[21:08] Yavieriel: right, like I was trying to think of whatwould be a good shapeshifty-species and also a native form that’s still atleast sorta appealing by human standards?

[21:10] Yavieriel: Annatar as something sort of like thishttps://i.pinimg.com/736x/83/61/49/836149daf9187173d766a3076eb762f9–octopus-mermaid-a-mermaid.jpg

[21:10] Yavieriel: but with golden hair-tentacles

[21:10] simaethae: YEAH

[21:10] simaethae: sharp teeth :)

[21:11] Yavieriel: and like, extrasensory stuff going on viaidk, telepathic tentacles or something?

[21:11] Yavieriel: RIGHT

[21:11] simaethae: some sort of electromagnetic ESP stuff?

[21:12] simaethae: because i’m p sure some fish can actuallydo that, idk about cephalopods but it wouldn’t surprise me

[21:12] Yavieriel:https://i.pinimg.com/736x/dd/6a/9b/dd6a9b56efa1308938dd8f9eee4cc4a4–elf-warrior-fantasy-warrior.jpgooooh, there we go, the hair-tentacles like I was thinking

[21:13] Yavieriel: yeah, and also now Tyelpe knows whyAnnatar always had perfect hair

[21:13] simaethae: NICE

[21:14] simaethae: also Annatar getting turned on by Tyelpebeing an alien to /him/?

[21:15] Yavieriel: Annatar’s native form isn’t actually verywell adapted for surviving on land, but they have a great deal of fun figuringout a sort of hybrid state that’s a bit more humanoid and handles being on land(or at least, in bed) better

[21:15] simaethae: (“your spinal vertebrae are in thesame place /all the time/?” “yes, uh, please don’t try to rearrangethem - ”)

[21:16] Yavieriel: the oxygen-deprivation can be fun, butthey’d rather not have to work around it every time they feel like getting thetentacles out

[21:17] simaethae: yeah, and also presumably Annatarwouldn’t actually be super comfortable in unsalted chlorinated water withoutany adaptations, so the bath wouldn’t be a great solution

[21:18] Yavieriel: right, like, sure Tyelpe can afford tohave a large saltwater tank installed but that has it’s own disadvantages, andAnnatar really enjoys the more decadent lifestyle possible when everythingisn’t underwater

[21:18] simaethae: …Tyelpe kind of pausing and blushingwhen Annatar gets comfortable enough to start, like, picking things up with hishair :)

[21:18] Yavieriel: yesss

[21:19] simaethae: yeah, or at least when the localtechnology isn’t well-adapted for underwater and your boyfriend can’t breathewithout air

[21:19] Yavieriel: also really fascinated by the variousneurotoxins and whatnot that Annatar is capable of producing

[21:19] Yavieriel: that too

[21:20] Yavieriel: hypothermia tends to be an issue as well

[21:20] simaethae: oooh, accidents with chemicals

[21:21] Yavieriel: Annatar’s completely resistant to allsorts of chemicals that are poisonous to humans, but turns out [totally commonhuman food] is a potent aphrodisiac for his species

[21:21] simaethae: Annatar’s species totally produce a wholerange of neurochemicals for reproduction/bonding with a mate and they’re not…totally incompatible with human physiology, although it’s a slightlydistressing interval before Tyelpe reassures him this is the GOOD kind of pupildilation

[21:21] Yavieriel: oooh, yes

[21:22] simaethae: or gets him drunk! :)

[21:22] simaethae: that one time Annatar walked out of ameeting where they had [snacks with ingredient in] now suddenly makes a lotmore sense

[21:23] Yavieriel: right! And another common food is extremely poisonous and there’s a ratherworrying incident where Tyelpe has to desperately hope that his understandingof alien biology is sufficient for him to appropriately treat it

[21:24] Yavieriel: also, Annatar now has an entirely newrange of options for terrorizing his subordinates

[21:24] simaethae: mm, and/or Annatar being like “don’tworry, I’m used to dealing with toxic chemicals, let me just do some quickinternal surgery” while Tyelpe’s like “what”

[21:25] simaethae: (i kind of think Annatar would be veryneedy and demand to have his brow mopped in response to minor injuries butdisturbingly blase about more major ones)

[21:26] Yavieriel: true, Annatar basically reaching in andrearranging his own internal organs in a very disturbing fashion

[21:27] Yavieriel: well, I was going for “actually foronce genuinely incapacitated”

[21:28] simaethae: aw, yeah. Annatar being like “youidiot I’ll be fine I just need to - ” [drops unconscious] :/

[21:28] Yavieriel: of course possibly Annatar doescavalierly rearrange his own organs and then passes out, all “I’ll be fineI just need to sleep this off now” but Tyelpe is understandably (andcorrectly) Very Concerned about this

[21:29] simaethae: right, also someone going bonelesslyunconscious when they literally do not have any actual bones is a surprisinglytricky logistical challenge

[21:30] Yavieriel: akldfj;sdk yeah, Tyelpe trying to figureout how the hell to move an unconscious octopus that’s basically twice the sizeof an adult human once you factor in all the tentacles

[21:32] simaethae: right, and kind of hoping he doesn’ttouch anything that triggers a reflexive sting while Annatar’s unconscious>_>

[21:33] simaethae: aslfn wait let me make it worse. Annatartotally does sting on reflex while unconscious, but his body recognises Tyelpeas his mate and decides now is definitely the time to shoot him up witheuphorics

[21:33] Yavieriel: ooooh

[21:33] Yavieriel: yeah that would be extremely not helpful

[21:34] Yavieriel: mmm, and leading in tonot-really-conscious Annatar trying to mate with Tyelpe like he’s another ofthe same species

[21:34] Yavieriel: which

[21:34] simaethae: which doesn’t make Tyelpe exactlynot-worried, because getting high isn’t the same as not having emotionsanymore, but does make him kind of poorly coordinated and probably prone toending up with both of them half-in the bathtub with Annatar on an improvisedIV line, while Tyelpe gives in and snuggles

[21:34] simaethae: omg

[21:35] Yavieriel: Does Not Work, but in ways that are…decidedly interesting

[21:37] Yavieriel: Tyelpe snuggling Annatar in the bathtuband waking up to tentacles doing something that is… not exactly pleasant butstill rather sexy

[21:38] simaethae: Annatar being groggily affectionatebecause mate! here! everything is correct and good! while Tyelpe is kind ofworried he’s taking advantage of Annatar in an altered state of consciousnessbut also a) that feels really good if extremely weird and b) it’s a good jobTyelpe’s into this because Annatar’s pretty determined to snuggle >_>

[21:38] Yavieriel: yessss

[21:39] simaethae: right, he’s kind of worried this is goingto end with eggs being laid in /someone/ but not enough to actually stop :)

[21:40] Yavieriel: warm salt-water because Tyelpe did havethe foresight to put together an emergency kit of sorts to make the bathwatermore appropriate for Annatar’s natural state, but that’s also encouraging, ah,mating behavior

[21:40] simaethae: yep!!

[21:40] Yavieriel: la;dkfjs;lkafj YES >.>

[21:41] simaethae: Annatar’s biology being like, “ah,clearly this is a warm tidal rock-pool, the perfect place to spawn”>_>

[21:41] Yavieriel: he’s pretty sure the thought ofegg-laying shouldn’t be turning him on either but he did decide to bang anoctopus-alien, soooo

[21:41] simaethae: alfgblgn

[21:43] Yavieriel:https://thattoychick.wordpress.com/2014/07/12/weird-sex-toys-o-the-week-the-what-dildo-edition/it is a thing

[21:43] simaethae: Annatar’s been great about exploringhuman sex, Tyelpe doesn’t want to make him feel as if his natural behaviour isunwelcome! Tyelpe can totally try out whatever Annatar’s into for once! no,really. he’s ready to explore this any time now

[21:44] Yavieriel: hilariously I once ran across someoneusing one of those to do jello shots, because you make the “eggs” outof gelatin

[21:44] simaethae: oh my god

[21:44] simaethae: what do you know you really can findeverything on the internet

[21:45] Yavieriel: you can! It’s amazing

[21:48] Yavieriel: [sighs]

[21:48] Yavieriel: alright, it’s quarter to five, and if Iwant to finish sweeping the driveway before it gets dark, I need to go do that

[21:49] simaethae: yeah i’m getting sleepy again

[21:49] Yavieriel: go sleep, that’s important if you’regoing to feel better

[21:49] simaethae: good luck with the driveway in that case!i’m glad we managed to get from “really bad modern AUs” tooviposition kink in a single conversation :>

[roxilalonde]

[S]:Collapse

mayhaps im just repeating what someone else has already said and said better but [S]:Collide needed to be way smarter than it was 

like. i genuinely think hussie wrote the scene and its prior framing around the striders, terezi, vriska, and john and/or roxy, and then tossed in the rest w/o regard to what could reasonably be deemed a satisfying ending to their arcs.

here’s what could have been tighter:

jake and karkat

so we get jake and karkat in what is ostensibly the most disappointing of all possible ends to their character arcs as people who idolize & emulate their cultures’ respective cults of war - neither a) recognizing that said cult is bullshit, a la the infamous Dave vs. Heteronormativity pesterlog, or b) fulfilling the ideal, i.e., actually doing something heroic requiring combative/physical strength. they take out the Felt. which, ok, sure, but there’s a narrative misstep in pitting your two characters with most aspirations to prove themselves in the field of battle against your weakest enemy for their final portrayed conflict.

put it this way: when karkat talks to meenah he’s clearly still putting a lot of onus on being The One, the guy who fights the big bad, so he can justify his own existence to himself. this is a big problem for karkat - he perceives himself as weak, because of alternia’s unreasonable standards of strength and bravery, so to face LE is to prove his dead planet wrong. he makes a point of it. and then, right before he’s supposed to - nope! he’s fighting a bratty green smuppet. or jake: built up as ultimate superclasspect, in the game-over timeline the big powerhouse in the session: also fighting a bunch of green smuppets! 

and yeah, you could blame it on vriska, but her rant was never narratively treated as bad strategy. even though your most powerful classpect is hitting your least powerful enemy. 

vriska

first of all, see previous: vriska isn’t a good strategist. she puts her weak players (which is vriska. vriska is a weak player, compared to the other people on the battlefield) against the strongest enemies, and her strongest players against the weakest. her arrogance gets in the way of critical thinking. nobody has a problem with this. 

she and terezi don’t get a resolution. vriska isn’t held accountable for the shit that she’s done to the other members of her party. she’s not held accountable for her relationship with terezi (how did that evolve? what changed about them? is she less reactionary? the wonders of a retcon that makes defunct three years of character development) the only place she gets closure is in a dream bubble, and even then, that’s (vriska).

finally: vriska deploying the weapon against lord english is interesting. it fits her, as the person who’s always trying to shove herself into plot developments headfirst. on the other hand: vriska shouldn’t have succeeded. it validates her previous efforts to shove herself into the action - it’s like the narrative is saying, “yes, vriska is so good at this, look at how successful she is when she tries to be the protagonist.” ignoring that a critical part of vriska’s character is that whenever she tries to do something like that, people get hurt. because vriska’s mistake is assuming her importance comes prior to others’ safety. throughout the story we’ve been told “vriska should under no circumstances be allowed to play protag,” and here she is, successfully playing protag.

jane

i would probably have written some pretty scathing analysis here if there was anything involving jane to fucking critique

in all seriousness: jane is sidelined (big surprise) and gets a brief, decent moment with Nannasprite about her issues adjudicating how passive/active to be in her own life. it’s a good moment for the Jane Collective. 

but she doesn’t kill the condesce. i can see why - she’s needed to run around healing people. but if nannasprite can do the exact same thing, there’s no reason that jane, who has the best reason to resent the condesce, shouldn’t be the one to fight her. and yet here we are. jane is the “main” of the alpha session. why is her “big moment” having another version of herself telling her how much cooler she is and then going off to be a passive aid? shouldn’t jane’s conclusion be, “wow, I should involve myself in battles that have personal value to me,” and go off to fight up the condesce?

then dad comes back. which, for a story about growing up - the point is that the kids are learning to live without their parents. there are a lot of allusions in homestuck to the game accelerating maturity: forcing them to “parent” a new world, develop extraordinary skills, growing as a person in accordance with the demands of their classpect. dad coming back alleviates jane of the need to do that: every other parent in homestuck dies. let that sink in. jane’s dad is the only parent who survives, and it’s not clear why. jane should be allowed to mature with the rest of her friends. it’s a feel-good moment, of course, but it’s a regression. what’s driving jane is no longer her dad’s welfare (we should hope); it’s the fate of the new universe. jane’s father should not be her reward. jane’s reward should be her friends’ safety, and the ability to progress as a person - i.e., leave the game. 

kanaya

the thing about strife animations is that we don’t have much time to actually see what’s going on. so for all i know, kanaya and rose were really critical to that battle. and it was really lucky they were there. but for the most part, they were side characters in an animation that concluded with roxy’s triumph. 

kanaya is interesting because the bounds of her mortality are not established. she survives eridan’s blast to the torso but not an incinerating laserbeam, so where does that line fall? pitting her against the condesce is on the one hand, a good decision, narratively (condesce comes from kanaya’s planet, kanaya’s problem; also, it’s clearly established that the condesce is capable of killing kanaya, raising the stakes); on the other hand, it’s hampered by the format. the GO timeline was told mostly in panels. that way, we felt the emotional impact. in [S]:Collide, kanaya could have come close to dying multiple times! as could rose have! our only definitive moments are her pausing in the middle of a battle to apply lipstick or read a book. which is, y’know, pretty funny, i admit! but also not conclusive.

meh, but not critical flaws:

rose: rose’s main power has always been as a strategist, informant, and manipulator of outcomes, and even though she’s formidable in battle, her time to shine should’ve been negotiating how things worked out. which is why i’m baffled that of everyone on that meteor, neither of the seers was the one managing strategy. amazing

terezi: her one-sided pesterlog with vriska was good in the same way the striders’ was good, but unlike the striders’, it’s never resolved, because it’s one-sided. the subject of her idealization is not there to disconfirm her idealizations. she also should have taken over strategy, she is far better than vriska at it

jade: i wish jade had a better-built arc. i’m not saying jade is unlikable or even a bad character it’s just that she does not have notable internal conflict or any struggle against societal norms to motivate her. her main problem is loneliness. but does she discuss that? does she get a resolution?? does she have personal problems derived from loneliness as a child that make her struggle to interact with people in person??? who knows, not the reader

here’s what did work:

roxy vs. the condesce. the condesce is the one who screwed up roxy’s planet; the condesce fucked with roxy’s friends in the GO universe, which only roxy remembers; the condesce subsequently killed rose, right before roxy’s eyes. roxy has reason to be in this fight. we establish early on in her story that roxy and the condesce are direct antagonists to each other and here we close that arc. good writing!

the striders. their chatlog was a detailed and satisfying ending to the strider brothers’ struggle with heteronormativity and flawed role models. “fuck being too cool for that” is a beautiful line in the context of their stories and their affirmation of being awesome without being ‘cool’ is fantastic. the way they work together in the last battle is touching and nice to watch. good writing! could have used more of it.

john. john’s role all along has been to be a friendleader, not a warrior. his minor role in the fighting coupled with his (debatably successful) speech prior makes for a decent finale. (later then we get john ft. Depression in the credits, but i’m not tackling the credits). i have no objections, but maybe that’s because the audience is never supposed to care about john’s development in the same way we care about the strilondes’ and the patron trolls’.

does it matter?

there’s an answer to all this that goes along the lines of “homestuck always defies convention, that’s why it’s lovable,” and while i can see the argument, a) this is really just me outlining why i, personally, am annoyed as fuck, which is to say that i, personally, do not always find it lovable, and b) convention exists for a reason. “convention” isn’t always an antiquated set of constraints aiming to to weigh down fresh creative thinkers; it can be a useful framework for building a good story. and if you reject that framework without maintaining some of the fundamental parts, you get a sloppy narrative. parallels, story cycles, foreshadowing: all of these things should be used conjunctively to set the stage for your conclusion. the stage was not properly set for [S]:Collide. i’m all for subverting obvious foreshadowing, but there’s a difference between “maybe this character will do X in the future, the text alludes to that possibility” and “it would make logical sense, given this character’s current development, for them to do X in the future.” subverting the former is fine. subverting the latter is messy.

and:

claiming dramatic realism does not alleviate you from the restraints of narrative structure and general good writing you shit

then the writer tries to subvert/avoid critique by giving dave’s spiel on “we aren’t characters, rose, we’re people, we don’t have arcs.” but. i’m sorry, but yes, they are characters. yes, they do have arcs. dave’s declaration of “we’re people” is made obsolete by the blatant falsity of what he’s saying - it’s more darkly funny than a legitimate response to criticism. so, yes, the author has a responsibility to tell a coherent narrative within the confines of his chosen medium. which means that yeah, maybe it’s “realistic” to leave their development dangling somewhere in the middle of Act 6, but that doesn’t mean it’s good.