#character: punz

[dsmp-for-kink]

ctechno is pretty into Gold and everything Golden. If you're Blonde or use Gold jewlery he's attracted to You inmediatly. Seeing cdream, cphil and cpunz in one room would make him pass out and probably get hard but first pass out

!

[sumwan]

Unfortunately, DSMP transcripts stopped transcribing lore streams after February 11, 2022. Their transcriptions have been an invaluable resource for many in the DSMP community. As for the remaining lore streams, I transcribed the parts of the streams that feature c!Dream and/or c!Punz. Any parts of the streams that did not feature either of those two characters have not been transcribed.

The links can be found below:

Dream encounters Tommy and Wilbur in Pandora's Vault

Dream visits Foolish at his summer home

Dream and Purpled get revenge on Quackity

Punz hears about Dream's death

Dream and Punz tell Tommy and Tubbo about their plans

Dream and Punz get confronted by Tommy in Pandora's Vault

Anyone can use these transcriptions however they want, it isn't really necessary to give explicit credit to me. I just hope they will be useful to people!

[llitchilitchi]

so long

[aromumbo]

Careful what you wish for, power always has a price

(finally finished these they took so damn long and are easily some of the most detailed digital art ive done yet)

[victoriacoffee]

Since I've been drawing Punz' chain a lot (and redesigning it a lot) I figured this was a good time to write down some c!Staged Duo headcanons I have about c!Punz' chain

[bleue-flora]

It's very interesting... how despite efforts to remain an objective overseer of the whole story, it seems the point of view of the streamer always seems to taint the facts. It's like the foundational lore streams are muddied in the innate bias of the streamer's character and no matter how much comparison to the wider picture or other characters, their perception still colors the truth.

For example, why is it that we believe Dream in the second to last finale stream? We know he's a liar. We know the things he's lied about and why. We know he put's on a show before, specifically for Tommy and Tubbo. And yet, we believe him? We believe them. They reveal that the disc finale was all staged, in a sinisterly over the top room. And we believe every word they say. They make fun of clingy duo like a couple of movie bad guys, malicious cackle and all. And yet, still we believe them. In the very next stream, we see Dream's motivation change, like we knew it would, and yet we still believe what they said before, even when we now know part of it wasn't real. That's not to say everything they say is a lie, we know for sure some of it is true. Still, every convincing lie is born of some form of truth and we know Dream uses this method of lying. We have every reason to doubt anything they say to anyone but eachother because we know they play their parts just like their enemies designate them. And yet, we still believe them. Why?

Maybe because clingy duo does.

And because they believe it's fact, it becomes fact to the viewer.

Not to say it isn't, or that there isn't truth in it, or that anyone is wrong for taking what they said and making assumptions, or that their assumptions are wrong... But I had someone tell me recently about how some of the Enderboo community dismissed the brainwash comment as a lie because it didn't align with Ranboo lore and ever since then, I realized you know it would be reasonable to say they lied, which begs the question, what else did they lie or exaggerate or give partial truth about?...

[chjroptera]

it’s so sad how little everyone cares for cksq or even csapnap and ckarl :-(

[misty-doodles]

I really liked this post from @bubble-popping so I just had to write some dead Dream myself, testing out a different writing style

Read Here on ao3 or on Tumblr below.

There’s an unmarked grave in the Arctic Commune.

Houses wrap around in a half circle, one house farther back than the others. Next to the two-story cabin sits an unmarked grave nestled among rocks and farm buildings. The only proof there is a body beneath the frozen soil is the bundle of purple crocus growing. The man who houses the shallow grave once adored flowers in their color and beauty.

In his dying breaths, once vibrant eyes dull, all he’d wanted was to see the sky and plants. With blood staining his teeth and wounds crying, he’d forced his mouth into a faint smile as soon as a lone crocus pressed into his twisted hands.

There’s an unmarked grave in the Arctic Commune, and there’s no hope of it ever being marked. The man who houses the shallow grave shall remain unnamed in his final resting place, mourned by only two and hated by many. Should anyone find the grave hidden under the snow, they will not be satisfied with the dignified end. The fear that his body may be dug up and desecrated was not unfounded.

The man who lives in the cabin bloodied his own hands as he cradled the body of his friend and watched, helpless to save his life. The man, one of two to ever care, stood in the bitter, biting cold and dug. He dug until his fingers numbed and tears dried to his face. He dug until there sat a shallow grave nestled between rocks and farm buildings.

The second man, of blond hair and blue eyes, of care for their fallen third, had not yet arrived. So the man in the cabin wrapped his friend in his finest blanket, careful as he laid him in his new home.

The man had never had a home before.

The second man, who would soon come to live with the fire, dug away snow and soil with his bare hands until they stiffened and paled. He buried the purple crocus just a few feet above the buried man’s corpse, a golden chain nestled beneath the delicate roots. Its only now, many weeks since the unmarked grave had been made, that he weeps. He crawls into the bed of the man who owns the cabin, tears in his eyes as he mourns their third.

No one else seems to mourn. Only the man of blond hair and blue eyes, and the man who owns the cabin. The ones who kneel at the unmarked grave, who whisper words of love and regret into the empty air. To the man of green eyes and freckled cheeks in the shallow grave nestled between rocks and farm buildings.

There’s an unmarked grave in the Arctic Commune, and it belongs to Dream.

[bubble-popping]

day 47! start your day right with more angst :D (this is all I have written for the au atm bc someone gave me too many ideas and now im working on ANOTHER au.....)

Punz slumped, stared unseeing at their untouched cup. Their heart ached at the new information, mind spinning from the insinuation. Eventually, their gaze wandered to the vibrant bouquet. "Where is he now?" They asked quietly. "I buried him at the flower forest. I figured he'd like it there." "Could you take me to him? Please?" "Of course."

They stood up when Techno did, tea forgotten as the two went to the front door. Punz waited while Techno donned all his winter gear, anxiously fiddling with the straps of the mask. The second the door opened, a harsh wind whipped against their faces.

"This won't be easy. It's a decent ways away from here," Techno grunted, as if that could deter them.

Although they shivered, Punz stood strong. "I don't care. I need to see him."

Techno watched them with something very sad in his gaze, something melancholic. Callahan had done the same thing when he gave them the book from Dream. It was starting to piss him off.

"Suit yourself," he finally said after a long silence. A silence that returned as they began their journey through the snowy fields.

No words were exchanged for the entire first leg of the trip. The quiet followed them past the tundra, past the spruce trees, past the oak and the birch and the wide open plains. Punz had nothing to say, rarely did if they were honest. The last three or so weeks made it crystal clear he was no people person. Having to speak to every single member ended up more taxing than they could possibly imagine, especially when they got the same goddamn answer every time.

"Yer the only one, ya know."

The blond glanced to him, giving a confused hum in response.

"No one else has come to ask about 'em. Doesn't seem like anyone cares."

"They don't," Punz spat. Their fists clenched under the cloak, trembling as they glared at the innocent grass he trampled. "They threw a fucking party."

"Wait, seriously?"

"Yeah. Practically held a fucking parade. Cheering and chanting up and down the Prime Path about his death."

"Who?"

"Who do ya think? All those L'Manberg assholes. Tommy and Tubbo, Fundy and Quackity, and Ranboo? For some reason? Yeah, they all celebrated like Christmas had come early. Fuckin' fireworks and all. Could hear 'em from the top of my tower."

"What about Dream's other friends?"

"What other friends? If you mean George and Sapnap, they're worse. Not a single word from them since Dream's death. I wouldn't be surprised if they had a party of their own."

Though it seemed he had more to ask, Techno wisely dropped the conversation from there. Once more, silence blanketed the pair. This time, it persisted until they arrived at the sea of vivid colors and sprawling shrubbery.

It looked so wrong. Stuck out like a sore thumb amongst all the vibrant life surrounding them. Punz slowly trudged closer, each step harder than the last. As he approached, he could see the faint outline of a smile carved into the wood.

They spotted it instantly, the headstone: a plank of dark oak wood stuck into a patch of disturbed earth.

"This is what he wanted?" They asked quietly, stopping just a foot from the edge of uncovered dirt.

"Best I could do for 'em. Didn't ask for anythin' else."

None of this matched what Punz knew. It didn't make any goddamn sense. Dream wouldn't just... give up.

"So, his body is really down there?"

Out of the corner of his eye, he saw Techno raise a brow at him. "Uh, yeah. No where else to really put it."

Finally. Without warning, Punz dropped to their knees and started digging at the grave. He finally found what he needed and now all he had to do-

"Woah, what are ya doin'??" Techno lowered as well, grabbing their wrists to stop them.

"I need to see him! I can bring him back!" They growled, only realizing what they'd said when Techno's gaze went wide.

"What?"

His mouth hung open, slightly labored breaths passing through from the sudden burst of energy. "I... Just, trust me. I can revive him."

[dsmp-for-kink]

c!punz with objectification and worshipping kick. Parther can be whatever but c!dream it's a good suitor

!

[catsandgoodbooks]

I’ve been thinking about the first part of the DSMP finale quite a lot recently, so let me ramble about it and, more specifically, the decisions c!Punz makes there, and why they might of done that.

So far, I’ve seen three main theories about why c!Punz decided to revive c!Dream in front of c!Tommy and c!Tubbo, thereby destroying their cover. The first is that c!Punz just panicked and wanted to bring c!Dream back as fast as possible, damn the consequences. The second is that c!Punz and c!Dream already planned all of this out and they decided together that c!Punz didn’t have to stay in the shadows any longer. The third is that c!Punz decided that they were just going to betray the plan if one more thing went wrong out of spite and concern for both themself and c!Dream, and this was the last straw. I like all three of these for different reasons, so let’s go through them one by one.

Option One: Desperation and panic. c!Punz freaked out and revived c!Dream as soon as they found out. The second c!Dream’s back, he’s also panicking, so they’re both freaking out while trying to seem calm and collected. c!Tommy and c!Tubbo are completely oblivious to this because of course they are.

Perks/Evidence:

It’s fun (and a little angsty, but that’s not the main thing)

There’s plenty of silly little headcanons for this (including the one post that I can’t find anymore about c!Dream falling down the stairs because he was disoriented)

c!Dream would probably go along with it and pretend it was completely fine/supposed to happen

It’s the simplest solution, and the one easiest inferred from the stream

Cons:

Would c!Punz really do that, knowing how much they’ve given up for this and how level-headed they are?

Why wouldn’t c!Punz just send c!Tommy and c!Tubbo on their way instead of telling them that c!Punz had something to show them?

Option Two: Calm, calculated planning. c!Dream and c!Punz planned everything out, including the reveal of c!Punz’s true allegiances and c!Dream’s revival (and potentially his death as well). Neither of them are panicking (or, at least, they’re not panicking as much as they would in option 1). Presumably, c!Punz doesn’t need their cover anymore, perhaps because the plan is almost at the end. c!Tommy and c!Tubbo are still oblivious to everything going on, because they always are.

Perks/Evidence:

c!Dream and c!Punz getting exactly what they wanted despite making extremely questionable decisions and essentially losing, which always felt suspicious to me

Staged duo’s whole thing being staging things and making victories feel like crushing defeats

c!Punz having the revival book set up and ready to spring, as well as essentially having a whole speech planned

c!Dream has before (and would again) sacrifice a life or two for a plan

It could of been a rainy day plan for if c!Dream lost his last life, which would make the whole theory make more sense

Cons:

Why would they do this? What’s the reasoning behind this? What are they trying to accomplish (besides maybe blowing up the world, fixing whatever is wrong with it, or having previously figured out that the nukes would somehow erase people’s memories and trying to get that to happen)?

The logistics. All of them. What else do I have to say?

Option Three: Spite. It’s the last straw for c!Punz, who has had to go along with c!Dream’s plans and self-destructiveness (especially after what happened with Las Nevadas), and they decide that, damn it all, they’re going to blow their cover to force c!Dream into going along with this. c!Punz knows what’s going on but no one else is, including c!Dream. (I don’t think I explained this very well, so go read this canon-compliant oneshot setting this up if you want more context. It’s really good)

Perks/Evidence:

It gives c!Punz more agency, which is always a good thing

It has c!Punz and c!Dream be on different pages and adds conflict between them, which is interesting and angsty

c!Dream would definitely go along with it and pretend this was all part of his plan

It gives c!Punz a reason to revive c!Dream in front of Clingy Duo instead of just waiting until they were gone

As above: It gives c!Punz a relatively plausable reason to blow their cover

It incorporates c!Punz’s internal conflicts and besetting sin of anger, which neither of the others do

Cons:

There’s literally no evidence for this, I just think it’s interesting and angsty

I personally like all three of these, but I think the first makes the most sense, even though c!Dream getting what he wanted despite being outsmarted and killed and having one of his allies outed seems really suspicious. However, I think that the other two are very interesting to explore and I want to use them in fanfiction now, so I’m probably going to do that sometime and you’re not going to see me for three months.

[somerandomcryptid]

ah no no sorry i confused the words bc i was asking of You wanted to talk more about the cpunz and cquackity and c!cryptid stuff related to your recent art post but i got confused if it was part of You previous au or a new one and got confused, sorry 😓

-cleo

Ah yeah that makes more sense. No problem! actually kinda good you got confused cause I think I may have cooked something kinda fire so before I absolutely lore dump on you have some sketches of an au where Punz is a big doggo I just did

Man’s best friend :)

Anyway onto such less wholsome stuff because yeah those sketches were for Dreaming of death

also tw for implied child abuse and one mention of a child being hit (not contiunasly just twice with different people behind it each time), and one other mention of a child being harmed in a relatively minor way

I really should have clarified this is almost directly after the other Cryptid and Quackity in formal wear arts I’ve done. which I don’t think I’ve ever really explained? because honest i haven’t decided all the details. i just know that a fancy event is held at las nevadas and afterwards the las nevadas crew kinda like, goes around the server? like bar hopping but without the bars? they’re still all deunk though. it’s very chaotic.

They just so happen to run into staged duo (not directly but staged duo can see them, if they actually had awareness they’d probably be able to see them too)

and uhhhhhhh welll Cryptid and Q aren’t exactly.. obeying quaritoine rules?/platonic this pisses both Dream and Punz off. amd wellll Punz is kinda the more confrotational of the two?(he feels like he should fight dream’s battles because he wasn’t there for him in prison)

so he uhhh yoinks his child cryptid. They do not appreiate this. Q also, does not appreiate this. but Punz kept Quackity in his basement for 2 weeks and experiemented on him, safe to say he has the intimadation points. and the height advantage.

Anyway yeah that’s all the context I SHOULD have given. But brain was wprking a mile a minute because dod!Punz is walking contrictions if they were good at pvp. and I love him for it.

to elaborate on that. the guy is one, trying to gaslight himself imto thinking he doesnt want to make out with Dream, two trying to gaslight himself into think he doesn’t care about Cryptid.

which like…. wrong but also he does truly hate Cryptid a bit and is hella jealous of them. He also has tucked them into bed and condsidered for a brief second staying with them when they request him to.

And that’s not even touching how Cryptid feels about him. because he is the reason for aproximately a 4th of their issues. and also their idol a bit.

and they just hate each other but also care about each other in such an interesting mix.

Punz genuinely thinks they are a brat and that they are incredibly dramatic about how bad their lofe is because they have it ”good” in his eyes. but he also genuinely would never want to see them hurt and seeing them with Quackity makes him seeth because their risking their safety and also that their wasting their potential which he begrudgingly admits they have.

But also. he is the only person on the server to have scarred Cryptid(physically I mean), when they first met properly he held a dagger to their throat. they were fine, it’s just a little scar but it was still signifagant. He is also one of the only people to have hit them, the only other person being Quackity, was only once. still happened though.

Sorry this kinda just spiralled to me rambling about dod!punz with no real end point but he’s one of my favorites for just how convoluted he is. i would ramble more. but also it’s 6:30 am and I should go to bed lol.

(Since I’m main tagging I’m going to put the big ol’ Dreaming of death is an au of the fic penpal by @calamari-minecraft-corner :3)

[cdroloisms]

dr3's attempted serious of c!dream duo rankings based on lore importance (note: probably wrong, definitely argue)

c!Dream and c!Tommy: This is kinda undeniable. Like, in terms of their story, in terms of the Dream SMP, they are absolutely the heart and soul of the server. The c!Dream and c!Tommy show was such a thing that it has been like intentionally referenced and parodied within the story itself a million times. The story literally hinged on the idea of their opposing each other, c!Tommy-as-hero and c!Dream-as-villain, to the point where their whole you know finale and the closure for both characters involved realizing that they actually wanted the same thing and intentionally stepping out of the roles given them. Nothing really compares, sorry c!Discduo for the poll (but the heart wants what it wants XD)

c!Dream and c!Wilbur: I cannot believe they ended up ranking so low like I'm actually appalled. SLASH JAY but like . guys. Guys Please. c!Dream and c!Tommy's whole schtick forms the beating heart of this server because the story c!Wilbur wrote about them was its backbone. Like it's incredibly difficult to actually overstate how much c!Wilbur actually influences how c!Dream ends up--the paranoid spiral he ends up on is a direct influence of the increasing isolation he lived up until November 16th--this is why c!Quackity is so confident when he states c!Dream has no one left during dethronement and this is why c!Wilbur knows that c!Dream has no one in inconsolable differences. c!Dream doesn't exist in a vacuum and the whole, L'manburg narrative tyrant-villain-monster idea that originates from Wilbur ends up culminating in the identity that c!Dream ends up assuming to accomplish what he wants like hoooly shit he quotes "unfinished symphony" in Doomsday and he expects c!Wilbur to save him from the prison to the point of calling on him as his savior before basically Anyone and he lists c!Wilbur's name with c!Sam and c!Quackity post-prison like. Shit's fucked. Anyway.

c!Dream and c!Sam: Look I warned you guys I was going to be a little selfish. A Tad. Though, you know, it's kinda hard to compare in terms of like, you know, the fact that they literally spent a fuckin year together with almost no one else--sure there were visitors, sure Quackity happened, but like so much about them is very much isolated to. Them. (Also the ccs very clearly got a little carried away w/ these two and this reflects onto their like, Everything XD). With c!Sam and c!Dream it's less about well, straightforward comparisons and more about the Multitudes--c!Sam as the Plan, and c!Sam as part of the time and part of the server that c!Dream idealizes, and c!Sam as the cage for the monster the punishment for the evil the one that holds the villain away. And obviously while c!Dream doesn't um redefine his whole identity to base it on c!Sam the way that c!Sam does with c!Dream, the power of the trauma bond established over a year of Nothing Else does makes c!Dream noticeably more comfortable, almost, with c!Sam compared to like quite literally everyone else post-prison. Which is. Y'know.

c!Dteam (emphasis on c!Dnf): Admittedly, I'm not the biggest c!dnfer around by a long shot, so I don't really have as much to say here--but you know, considering c!Dteam very literally symbolize what c!Dream desires like. They're an extremely important part of who he is, what he wants, and why he does what he does. There's a reason why dethronement (and the cutting ties with c!Sapnap and c!George) is such a defining moment in terms of showing when he's fully burned bridges with the rest of the server, when he totally stands alone, etc. Obviously c!George is the originator of the "big happy family" line and well his mutual interests line up with c!Dream's quite a bit more than c!Sapnap's do, but as far as c!Dream is concerned both relationships are very much important to him and symbolic of happier times (and he's quite convinced that well. Both of them kinda want him dead, for reasonable reasons. So.)

c!Techno and c!Dream: This is where numbers get finicky, admittedly. As much as I love c!Rivals, and I love them a lot, I struggle a bit to put them on a definitive ranking. Because...well, on one hand, c!Techno is absolutely very high on c!Dream's priority list like as a character. I have said before and I'll say again that some of the most like outstanding displays of loyalty on the server come from c!Dream coming in c!Techno's defense at GREAT risk of personal harm--this guy literally stares down and denies both of his fucking torturers for c!Techno, like holy shit. c!Dream really fucking likes the guy like. So damn much. At the same time though, we're talking more...narrative importance versus importance to the character from a character's perspective--which is part of why c!Dteam is as high as they are, imo--while they're extremely important in terms of c!Dream's motivations and how he defines the whole "happy family" ideal around the idea of them living peacefully as a family, as far as actually looking at character interactions...especially post-dethronement they mostly just. Exist as figures that c!Dream yearns for but is also really fucking scared of. There's not as much consistent character interaction and frankly when we're talking about a character that's actively suppressing what he actually wants, they're not exactly high on his mental priority list either. All this being said, c!Techno definitely gets points by being one of the main vehicles by which we see c!Dream's like, humanity--being one of the few characters not to treat him as just a monster to be defeated and having similar ideals and therefore being an obvious comparison to make. Which is obviously important when we're talking about c!Dream, who was keeping himself rather in the dark.

c!Dream and c!Punz: Another real struggle to rank--I'd understand putting them up higher, but what really holds me back is well. c!Dream and c!Punz is the same as c!Dream and the Plan. And don't get me wrong, the Plan is extremely important to c!Dream as a character and like defines a lot of his actions especially post-revive book onwards, but what complicates this is like...well c!Punz as a character in terms of c!Dream? Like, he's just. He's just the Plan. That is his purpose, that's who he is supposed to be, and of course the Plan is important and of course c!Punz's like motivations here end up playing a big part in the tangled mess of what c!Dream ends up doing when we're talking what he starts ranting about in the third finale stream, but like. Well it's really not about c!Punz, innit, it's about what they're working together towards. c!Punz is secondary to the plan in a way that you really can't say the same for when you're talking about, say, c!Wilbur + the L'manburg narrative, or c!Sam and the prison. I can see an argument for them being higher just because like, if we're talking major c!Dream arcs, it's reasonable to have c!Dream and c!Tommy as being like a presence as the "main characters" in Wilbur's story starting the revolutionary war and ending at the genuine finale with c!Dream's main character development being split between the previously-named season finales--c!Wilbur being the main influence leading up to November 16th as c!Dream takes on the villain mantle, The Plan (and therefore c!Punz) driving him until Staged Finale, and the c!Sam and the Prison being the main force until the prison break...but well. There's just not enough of c!Punz and c!Dream actually acting together as a duo in terms of give and take in this dynamic to really make me put them higher--what's really important about c!Punz and c!Dream is just. The Plan and the Plan alone. Anyway, I'm decently flexible about this, but eeeeeeeh.

[rutadales]

they fucking killed him before he got to see if sonic 3 (coming to theaters December 20, 2024) was a faithful adaptation of Sonic Adventure 2 (available on steam right now for 9.99) ....

[dingbatnix]

Aight question

If I make Punz yellow, who's pink and who's big red?

And if yellow is not Punz, who should the trio be?

(I wanna draw someone other than dream btw) (OH maybe purpled and Punz? But who'd big red be?)

[bleue-flora]

Hate to intervene on the discussion about the genuine finale, but Tommy did apologize previously to the nuke going off and he did it before Dream even killed him, Im not sure if it was intended for him to say the apology so early on if at all but it did make me a little confused when the reaction to the apology was dream focusing on tommy dismissing the revival book and then killing him. Its not that out of character or anything, it made sense for Dream to be paranoid and lash out especially considering Tommy accused him of being the same person the whole time within his apology, but it did make me feel bad for tommy, as well as the fact he didn't get a sorry in return but then again had the nuke not dropped and no reset, Dream probably would of apologized for his own actions once he really processed what was going on which is rlly the only issues i had with that final convo

Regardless on my opinion on that part of the stream, you've definietly highlighted why many dislike it and I completely agree. Dream and Tommy had closure, while pretty much no one else in the server really did, not sure if punz even did, many character arcs didn't rlly end, stuff was left ambigious, ranboo had their ending on twitter, we got nothing about dreamxd. killing staged duo off is just a repeat of everything before and it just makes the moral that violence is the answer to trauma and multiple characters in dsmp use violence as revenge and the ending having that would just be like saying that was okay. But the fact it instead took this understanding morally grey approach and ended that destructive cycle gave it a much better moral. Solid essay btw.

[context]

Always feel free to intervene, just know you’ll probably get an essay in response lol. ;D <3

In regards, to Tommy’s apology [clip] I am of the opinion that anything Tommy said before he died was not really genuine because he was stalling for time. He only asks Dream what his point of view is the server because he needed to stall. And even when Dream is explaining his side [clip], instead of really understanding it or even having remorse he mutes and says “Come on, Tubbo.” He’s not really listening, and his apology shortly after isn’t really sincere. He keeps repeating how Dream was always like this, so if he was apologizing it wasn’t because he realizes he actually hurt Dream. He even questions how Dream can be upset about burning down George’s house “it wasn’t even your house.” Language like “you could’ve got over that” tells me he isn’t seeing the point. He does not see how he might be in the wrong nor how much he hurt Dream.

So honestly, I think this apology is really just manipulation, trying to get Dream to stay. And honestly, that makes sense, because if you want someone to stay you’re not going to keep pissing then off, or at least he learned this because that was his first strategy. But that was only making them want to leave or kill him, so he changes tactics, getting Dream to talk [clip] “take as long as you need.” So yea, it doesn’t really count in my mind, just as Dream’s “I’m sorry” in prison doesn’t necessarily count.

If however the nuke hadn’t happened, and Tommy had actually apologized, now beginning to understand Dream more, then perhaps Dream would also. But to be honest that would be pretty out of character for both. Character growth can only go so far in one stream.

And I think Dream doesn’t feel sorry, not really. I think he regrets things getting out of hand and going further than they should have, but I think he’s so hurt by Tommy that he feels justified in his lashing out. And unless, Tommy were to express actual remorse for his actions and see them as wrong vs the “that was just me having fun with my friends” we got, then I don’t think Dream would apologize.

If the nuke hadn’t happened, I don’t necessarily see Tommy changing his behavior, only his view of Dream. I see him still being Tommy and pissing Dream off, just not viewing Dream as this evil devil out to get him. So honestly the reset was probably good because might as well go out on this nice moment when they understand where the audience can be optimistic about what could’ve happened vs seeing what the actual aftermath would have been. Certainly better and different but I don’t think things would change as much as we’d like to think.

Certainly Dream and Tommy had a satisfying wrap up where some other characters did not, but I would say it is pretty fitting that they would have a more dramatic actual resolution considering they have been the center of a lot of conflicts from the very start.

I do think though Punz did complete his character arc, perhaps not as satisfying as we’d like but still. Throughout the whole thing he has been in the background and more secretly Dream’s ally, but finally he was able to stand beside Dream and speak his truth, and be openly his friend, openly defend him and have his back. That was a good ending for him. Instead of being a bystander like in the disc confrontation this time he got to speak up and be heard. He finally got to die alongside Dream, instead of watching Dream die for him. He finally got to be included. It’s not perfect or as well thought out, but it works.

Have another essay I guess lol, glad you liked the other. <3 <3 and yea for sure sending a good message to the audience is super important (again something that Supernatural failed at) and to say let’s talk it out and try and see each others point of views instead of just continuing the cycle of violence is certainly a very important message to highlight. :)