#chainsaw man discussion

[kafukaselect-blog]

No, Power Hasn't Been Forgotten

I saw someone on twitter the other day say that Fujimoto had forgotten about Power, they genuinely tried to argue that he has dropped the Blood Devil storyline in Part 2. Obviously I know that most chainsaw man fans aren’t this dense, but the post did get me thinking about the fact that some people aren't really aware of how the Blood Devil storyline is being setup in Part 2, which is crazy because Power has been referenced in every single arc of Part 2 so far.

In the Justice Devil arc, Denji's literal first scene is him saving a cat that is clearly modelled after Power's blood devil form (Not to mention the fact that cats are a motif strongly associated with Power). The idea of Denji ignoring a choice put in front of him to instead save a cat (Power) is definitely some sort of symbolic foreshadowing for future events, though it's too soon to predict exactly how.

In the Endless Aquarium arc, Denji refers directly to Power, clearly showing that he still thinks about her, and In the Falling Devil arc, we literally see Power, manifesting in Denji's flashback. I know it's easy to sort of disregard this as a wink-wink nudge-nudge bit of fanservice to bring back memories of Part 1, but that sort of thing is honestly pretty uncommon with Fujimoto.

Every instance of a side character returning to Part 2 from Part 1 has been preceded by basically no direct references to the character ahead of time. Both Quanxi and Katana Man appear out of nowhere, and Kishibe – who given recent events is almost certainly making a comeback – has similarly received no direct mentions or even allusions yet.

I think the fact that Fujimoto is setting up Power / The Blood Devil so early clearly shows that she is going to be an important part of the narrative.

And finally, in the current arc, when Denji is talking to Pochita in the toilet, Meowy enters and then the scene ends. Meowy is clearly symbolically representing Power here (Meowy has only ever been relevant to the plot in their relation to Power), and is being presented as a clear counterpoint to Denji's assertion that he no longer needs to fight. Not only are there consistent references to Power, but this one – even more obviously than "Save the Cat" – positions her as a crucial narrative piece of Denji's dilemma going forward.

I hope this hasn't all been a bit too obvious, it's definitely possible that most fans have noticed this already, but honestly I just want everyone to be on the same page regarding Power's involvement in Part 2. Not only will the Blood Devil be a major plot point in Part 2 in the future, she already is one now.

[theseventhstar]

Time to bring the -Makima is literally the perfect Mishanks love child- agenda on tumblr

[savedgame]

fujimoto: yeah denji gets manipulated and assaulted by many women older than him

us: ohhh that’s such a great commentary on grooming!

fujimoto: *hiding his boner* yeah what

[giveamadeuschohisownmovie]

Anime comparisons to non-anime content that I’ve seen:

Konosuba —> It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia

Spy x Family —> Mr. and Mrs. Smith / True Lies

One Piece —> Looney Tunes

Chainsaw Man —> Scott Pilgrim

Monster —> Hannibal

Attack on Titan —> Dune

Black Clover / Mashle —> Harry Potter

Code Geass —> Game of Thrones

The Promised Neverland —> Chicken Run

DanDaDan —> Regular Show

(Feel free to add any other comparisons you’ve seen)

[euphreana]

I'm not done yet, I can't get over Yoru's pose when she calls to Tank and Gun, like a parent reaching for their young child.

Except, y'know. She just killed them.

[sugar-grigri]

GOOD! I'll now explain a little more about my absence on Tumblr, not that I think it was dramatic, but I did get a few reactions to it (why no analysis of the last chapter? Asks still unanswered).

I wanted to test on Twitter, in fact I was already expecting the conclusions I was going to draw from this experiment, but it all started with a discussion with my twin sister who told me that I had to test to see how my analyses in particular (there's no difference in the way fanarts are received) would be received.

Honestly, my posts went down well and I think it shows that on any platform many people are interested in digging into a manga, but unlike here where people will want to look for opinions on a chapter, posts on Twitter drift towards people who aren't interested (and they have the right).

But the insulting, even misogynistic part, the repeated meme, the often private RT quoted, it's anxiety-provoking.

And even when I wasn't posting, the arguments, the drama, the anxiety-provoking news loops, the nonsense all contributed to my bad mood.

Anyway !!!! I'm going into exam period, so I won't be as productive as usual right away, but I'm going to stay on Tumblr.

Not that I wanted to leave, but I didn't know if I'd be posting on Tumblr AND Twitter

Already time-wise, it's impossible, especially for someone who's trying to limit her addiction to networks.

And one last clarification: all my threads on Twitter were reflections I'd already written here, so you haven't lost any "content".

See you soon <3

Addendum: if I haven't made myself clear I'll probably quit Twitter and only stay on Tumblr!!!!

Another addition: CSM doesn't have the audience the work deserves, not because people don't like the work enough (I don't care about that) but because people refuse to believe that Fujimoto thinks his work, coherently and deeply

[mugmegan]

So there was actually another community I submitted but never heard back from so I am guessing: rejected. It was called Makima's Dogs and I made the icon image myself

Guess it wasnt good enough for staff 😥

[dweefydweefington]

i feel like a lot of people misunderstand chainsawman and a lot of important moments in it. in chapter ten of the manga we see Denji fight with the leech devil and talk about his dream to feel up a woman, and when everyone is grossed out about it he then challenges the devil to a “dream battle” to prove how important his dream is. he then immediately loses the fight and only survives because of aki. later power let’s denji feel her up and it does nothing for him. a lot of people see this as a haha funny moment where denji is just obsessed with sex, but it’s far from it. fujimoto has a history of complex characters and denji is no different. denji at this point does not understand what love is or what a fulfilling relationship is. A theme of chainsaw man part 1 & 2 is just because you want something doesn’t mean it’s good for you. Chapter 10 is arguably the earliest chapter this theme shows up in and no one talks about it.

[musical-chick-13]

So I guess ultimately my question is why are we assuming that Nayuta specifically meant “Denji belongs to me definitively, and you are trying to take his attention away from me?”

Aside from the fact that narrative misdirection is a thing and that I think it would completely contradict all the themes of the story thus far to just have her be Makima 2.0 and inherently evil...

We don’t actually know if she and Yoru recognize each other or not? Even on a subconscious level. If she does recognize Yoru (and, reasonably, knows how her powers work) calling Yoru a thief could have meant that “You are trying to steal Denji’s spinal cord to make a weapon” or even “You have stolen this random girl’s body to use for yourself.” (Even if she doesn’t know specifically that Yoru is sharing Asa’s body, she might still be able to tell that something weird is going on?)

She’s still a child, she might have just impulsively said the smallest amount of words that would sort-of convey what she was feeling.

I’m not worried yet.

Yet.

[ivaeow]

✚　ᛪ༙ VISCERAPARTY’S HALLOW’S EVE EVENT 　༏ྀ𑇒

— Day 4 : Open Bar! +4 [ @visceraparty ] (ノ _ <,, ) . . .

? ! Makima . . .

day 4 . . . PROMPT :: Edit a character who’s commonly associated with alcohol! If you can’t think of one, you can also edit a character associated with… any drugs!

. . . Doll was gunna do kishibe but doll didn’t wanna

f2u ◟ credits required ╱ do not remove kyuki’s watermark

no recolors ⠀⎯⎯⎯⠀or reposts w/o credits ,, tnk kyu !! ദ്ദി(｡•̀ ,<)~

↳ REBLOGS , ᡣ𐭩‘s , && FLLWS ARE APPRECIATED 𐂯⠀⤹

[lesbica-virtual]

i think asaden shippers should also find a deeply romantic song from the 80s that describes their situation just like how akiangel shippers did with 'out of touch' by hall & oates

[gainaxvel3o]

I don't think fans understand the "Batman beats up poor people' and "Batman could improve the infrastructure of Gotham through money than fighting crime" criticisms. Hell, I don't think people who spout those arguments understand the criticisms themselves.

See, fans take that criticism literally. They'll cite a hundred stories where Bruce Wayne gives money to charities and public funding, or how Batman tries to sympathize with the villains, and how that criticism disregards the actual stories written. Which is true, if taken completely at face value.

However, I feel the criticism is aimed more at a meta-narrative level. Why is the most popular superhero in the world right now- marketed toward children and treated insultingly well by DC and Warner Bros- a rich billionaire who's stories are tailored made toward him beating on people of lower incomes or suffering from exaggerated depictions of mental health problems? With the help of the police? Batman's story is constructed around such ideas, and aspects of his world like Jim Gordon are too fundamental to the character's history to be removed cleanly. It's not something any one Batman writer can solve, and let's be honest, most people would and have rightfully rolled their eyes at the idea of fundamentally altering the character in such a drastic way since he's their escapist entertainment. But- assuming someone actually wants to engage with the idea- it is a topic worth discussing.

To be fair here, I should talk about a more extreme case regarding one of my personal favorite characters. There's been a recent discourse on Twitter regarding to the Captain America. Or rather, the Chainsaw Man artist's rendition of Captain America, a grotesque demon that one user interpreted as a condemnation of America itself. Fans of Cap got defensive, pointing out the Steve Rogers character isn't really like that. Which is true, but misses the point entirely in regards to OP's observation and what a lot of people are saying. The character of Captain America might challenge for progressive values in his actual stories, and he was admittedly created by jewish men who fought Nazis. That's all cool, but consider: why is one of Marvel's flagship characters- one defined by pretty much by his mortal virtue in fact- draped in America's flag? We rightfully condemned when Israel tried to make its own patriotic superhero, but we sort of give Cap a pass no? For a lot of people, America has done a shit ton of harm and view the flag as part of a cynical, corrupt empire that enables their suffering. That's what the OP noticed in the Chainsaw Man mangaka's depiction of Captain America, and one can understand how someone- namely a non-american- wouldn't exactly be swayed by the "he has the IDEALS, doesn't serve the country man" argument.

These criticisms are not at all about the characters, not really. They're more of a broader, societal critique of what those characters represent. It requires a level of nuance and complexity that goes beyond the literal level, disregarding the page to focus on ideas, something that most casual people aren't going to be into. It's tedious as all hell honestly if you're not in the mood! I think the more fans and people understand this, the more we can have a greater understanding and get productive discussion.

[ultimateinferno]

You know. I think it kind of flattens Makima's character to presume the limits of her manipulation begin and end with sex appeal. Like even if it's not through the lens of Denji's impressionable teen sexuality, there is in some expectation that those she preys upon are in some manner attracted to her. Within the limits of the narrative that's fine enough since the themes largely involve sex and intimacy in some way. I think the nature of Makima as the Devil of Conquest/Control actually broadens her toolkit when it comes to relationships.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think so long as some form of positive relationship with her is initiated--be it sexual, romantic, familial, platonic or whatever--she has a foothold in a person's psyche enough to influence and subjugate them given enough time. Because the thing is, to her all relationships is a power dynamic in some way, and she's always trying to put herself on top. While a lot of her characterization is indicative of succubi, her nature encompasses all forms of control.

She's the manager who impairs working conditions, pinning it all on corporate and painting herself as just another worker standing her ground. She's the best friend fighting the whole world for you, while always subtly pitting you against it. She's the parental figure, just trying her damnedest to keep you afloat, but you keep wasting it.

Ultimately, I think the only true consistency with Makima's relationships is the end goal. Fostering total dependency.

[animehouse-moe]

For the life of me I can't remember the name of the person I saw that pointed this out (I'm sorry!), but it's a fun little piece that really reminds me of the differences in English and Japanese as a language. Asa using the Kanji for 'die', while Denji only uses the hiragana for it. It's a really great throwaway piece that gives Denji an impressive amount of character, and makes full use of the written medium. I might just end up grabbing a full Japanese set because of stuff like this.

[misplacedgamer]

Just want to point out that, once again, Yoshida has used his powers without us seeing him make any kind of payment.

I’M ONTO YOU FUJIMOTO

[byekuma]

[Character Analysis] Denji's Abuse and Growth, and Coming to Understand Who Never Loved Him.

*This character analysis is a translation of this post by Q BE of the Chinese fandom, with the author's permission. (Translated by Sachithes on Reddit)

WARNING: Contains spoilers for chapter 97

The way Fujimoto discussed Denji's mental issues in his interview was brilliantly said.

Denji's "fearlessness," although very useful in battle, is not "cool" in any way, but rather a very pitiful thing. Denji does not actually lack fear or emotions. Instead, he simply never had a chance to develop a proper, healthy understanding of emotions. He cannot identify his own feelings; his own fear and sadness fail to reach his own consciousness the way they would for a normal person. This was very apparent during the gun-fiend Aki arc. Denji was scared of the reality of Aki's death, so he didn't want to open the door; Denji was sad about Aki, so despite how he normally finds everything delicious, he threw up eating ice cream.

Denji is only like this because he was never treated like a human being since his own childhood. Nobody was there to hold him as a kid and tell him that he's a human being too, that he's worth something too, that he matters too. Yet despite this, he had a strong desire to survive. He was scared of his father's continued physical abuse, so he killed him. He was scared of being killed by the debt-collectors, so he worked his ass off for them.

And so Makima actually paved the path to her own downfall by creating her own killer. When Aki and Power were still around, Denji was incapable of defeating Makima. That time period was when Denji was most like a human - he was no powerful devil hunter then. Humans are social creatures, and "purely personal" feelings do not exist. All personal feelings exist under the premise of some kind of social relationship. Even if Denji cannot become a normal, healthy person through learning, he can still form relationships with others, and he can still experience love. It can be said that, under these conditions, Denji was able to indirectly or vicariously experience human-like emotions of fear, happiness, and unease. For example, when Power first moved into the Hayakawa household, Denji immediately took Aki's side when Power didn't flush the toilet.

That was a moment of Denji being social - through Aki as a medium, he experienced second-hand anger towards a roommate being unhygienic. Aki having these emotions is because Aki was loved before - he remembers what a normal family is supposed to be like. He knows that humans have value, so he gets angry when disrespected. And so little-by-little, Denji indirectly experienced many important things. However second-hand those emotions were, they were very much real.

Humans are only able to exist in the relationships between people after all.

And so Makima actually paved the path to her own downfall by creating her own killer. When Aki and Power were still around, Denji was incapable of defeating Makima. That time period was when Denji was most like a human - he was no powerful devil hunter then. Humans are social creatures, and "purely personal" feelings do not exist. All personal feelings exist under the premise of some kind of social relationship. Even if Denji cannot become a normal, healthy person through learning, he can still form relationships with others, and he can still experience love. It can be said that, under these conditions, Denji was able to indirectly or vicariously experience human-like emotions of fear, happiness, and unease. For example, when Power first moved into the Hayakawa household, Denji immediately took Aki's side when Power didn't flush the toilet.

That was a moment of Denji being social - through Aki as a medium, he experienced second-hand anger towards a roommate being unhygienic. Aki having these emotions is because Aki was loved before - he remembers what a normal family is supposed to be like. He knows that humans have value, so he gets angry when disrespected. And so little-by-little, Denji indirectly experienced many important things. However second-hand those emotions were, they were very much real.

Humans are only able to exist in the relationships between people after all.

Then Makima tore all of this apart with her own hands, which resulted in such an effect: Denji lost the people he could experience humanity through, but he did not lose his memories of the humanity he experienced. Denji now understood that, if a person treats another person like a human being, then they look at that person in a certain way. After having this comparison, and after experiencing both the absence of and existence of emotions, he was finally able to gain the ability to analyze things, to compare and contrast, and came to the conclusion that Makima never looked at him even once. Because the Denji we know now has experienced the gaze of many different people who actually loved him, he understood from the bottom of his heart what it felt like to be really looked at. And Makima never did.