#canto 6 if it direct by don quixote

[sleepyminty]

All heathcliffs must….die..?

[caerbannogmochi]

I'm pretty sure everyone remembers how Dante's clock has been moving over time. BUT, there is now an identifiable pattern to its movements, and its associated with the development of the sinners!

During Cantos 1-3, Dante's role in events is one of a passive observer. Gregor, Rodion, and Sinclair all made it through their cantos without much (if any) advice from Dante, the events of which mostly served to establish where they stood as characters/why they behave in the ways that they do.

Canto 4 was where this formula started to change. Yi Sang needed more out of Dante than the previous sinners; There was a Big Issue from his past that was controlling his future (namely, his entrapment in the past caused by the Hot Mess Involving T-Corp And The Mirror), forcing Dante to take on the role of Emotional Support Clockhead to guide him through the Canto. And at the end of the Canto, two things happened:

Vergilius commented on "the look on [Dante's] face"...

... and the clock moved for the first time.

The next 2 Cantos maintained this level of involvement from Dante: Ishmael needed Dante to help guide her away from her self-destructive obsession (I.E, to find "[her] compass [which] was swallowed by the sea" and choose to start "piercing through the rope that strangled [Captain Ahab] and [Ishmael]", freeing her to move toward the future), and Heathcliff needed Dante to help guide him through effectively communicating how much he loved Catherine/engaging in healthy relationship dynamics. (Seriously: the real antagonist of Canto 6 is communication issues.)

Effectively: Cantos 1, 2, and 3 had Dante doing the equivalent of talking with their respective Sinners as they drove their car down an empty street. Pretty casual, nothing major happened. Cantos 4, 5 and 6 required Dante to give directions, help them figure out where they got lost, convince them to pull over, calm down, and eat SOMETHING to get their blood sugar up before continuing toward their destination. More work, but these Sinners received greater rewards.

With Canto 7, the car was inside an IKEA.

Sinclair had to get the doors open. Faust had to find the car, awkwardly wedged in one of the shortcuts between display sections. Gregor, Rodion, Ishmael, Yi Sang, and Heathcliff had to pull Sancho out of the bunk bed in a completely different section of the store, with Ryoshu and Outis bringing their spoils from the marvelously-priced IKEA food court. Hong Lu had to help guide Sancho through getting the car out of the place it was awkwardly wedged, and Mersault held back the crowd. Dante's task wasn't just emotional support, but guidance. Sancho/Don Quixote needed someone to reassure her that there was a way forward, a something worth pursuing. And Dante did wonderfully.

So, is it a surprise that this canto is where the clock moved again?

Don Quixote (Who, as we learned in this canto, is a bloodfiend, like Vergilius) commented on Dante's expression.

And the clock moved.

BUT BETWEEN THESE TWO EVENTS, DANTE MADE THE CHOICE TO SMILE. "like Don Quixote asked me to".

THEREFORE, it is my conclusion that, between the commentary of lu-is-not-okay on Hong Lu's impending mental breakdown (SPECIFICALLY this post, which is the reason for my diatribe) AND the existence of this pattern of increasingly intensive Sinner rehabilitation efforts, Canto 8 will be the mental health equivalent of trying to get Hong Lu off of the car, which is precariously balanced upside down on a fountain, on the third floor of a shopping mall, while being chased by mall security (read: his family).

And it's going to be awesome.

[hongluboobs]

tumblr user hong lu boobs have you played any of the new canto yet im very interested in your thoughts

Yes I do!!! I don't want to make a big post on Some Of The Stuff til the whole canto is up (if you are aware of this account and some of my recent postings it may become aware of what i am talking about) but ohhghghgh. This shit Re Awakened the naive cyanism in me!! I thought it was gone. I thought I was over Hong Lu! I haven't even been doing my dailies and weeklies as of late that's how out of it i've been. but NOPE!! We are sooooo limback babey!!

(i apologize for yapping about hong lu right off the bat. its not that guy's turn yet. it's don's world and we are all just living it, but with the way don's character is structured my brain goes more towards a "wait and see" approach for her. I know it'll be awesome and i Am invested but like. this is hong lu boobs dot tumblr dot com. I'm sorry women)

I'll put some basic stuff above the cut and then some more spoiler-y stuff below.

HUGE fan of the presentation this canto. PJM continues to get crazier with this stuff every canto and this is no exception.

In the light of that previous bullet, I am fully expecting some meta fuckery here. They've pulled some cool stuff at the ends of cantos 5 and 6 but. this is the sinner about delusion/unreality! I Live In Fear of whatever pm is cooking.

The setting is also REALLY fun. whenever I saw a new battle bg i was cheering and clapping. they're all so fun and whimsical and there's so much potential for interesting things

I really like seeing how people dress in the north of the city! We've had so many new factions/branches of factions thrown at us so far and I love a lot of the outfits! Will this still hold true when I try to draw them and get upset at the level of detail after drawing standard formalwear on pm characters for so long? Maybe!

The CGs have been really clean so far? As an artist I get worried about this stuff sometimes because it's a lot of work to get done but all the ones I've seen so far are really nice :)

If you aren't reading passives and status effects this canto. do that. my brain might be a little too small atm to comprehend some of the gimmicks w the main enemy type but some of the wording in the enemies passives may be hinting at things. Also some of them are really funny

this Might be my favorite direction they've taken the OST? Honestly it's so hard to pick because this ost NEVER misses but I've been typing this whole thing to that one boss's theme (you know the one)

If you've played through the first part of the canto, feel free to click through the read more for some of my thoughts that delve more into spoiler territory

I am so intimidated anytime the screen goes black and I have to deal with various colored text and Scary Voiceover. I cannot say much on it aside from just how scared i get whenever it happens. I'm pretty bad at identifying voices (especially if i don't understand the language) but these lines just get. so interesting

Here they are all together for my convenience (and potentially yours :) )

I don't have a ton to say on it especially because anything I say can be proven wrong Very Quickly and I am not a don quixote scholar but I think the "Please, please! I don't want an adventure, stop! Please!" line from (who i assume to me) second kindred don is VERY interesting. much to think about regardless!

UPDATE: while I was writing this my buddy lu-is-not-ok (follow him. if you like what I do you'll like what he does.) sent me this image.

Yep, we've got identity stuff going on. Yellow seems to be Our Don Quixote (It's her text color, at least, but back then she'd be the bloodfiend second kindred, hence being able to obliterate that bear immediately, and acting less in line with the DQ we know and love) while red is... maybe the original don quixote? The original owner of rocinate at least,("Your running shoes look like they could fetch a nice price...") who seems obsessed with justice and fixers like ours. I haven't read the book so I don't feel like I can add a ton more to this aside from flat speculation but I am very interested in how this develops.

Ok now I want to talk about Hong Lu stuff. Let's ignore the elephant in the room for just a second :)

I'm a big fan of the exchange between Dante, Verg, and Hong Lu. THERE IS SO MUCH CONCERNING FORESHADOWING IN HERE!!!!! OH MY GOG. I can't handle it.

the specific wording of "the most lucid one" is SO interesting to me. fully expecting these cantos to be a True Combo. I was already anticipating it because they both have so much to do with rules and the boundary of reality and delusion but with the familial hierarchy theme present in bloodfiends its Definitely happening. And the light in Hong Lu's left eye going dimmer??? with the water theming being used??? Gloom/sinking themed distortion Please Please Please. you're nothing. Theres some water connections from the book irt the land of illusion (near the end bao-yu's enlightenment is seen as realizing that everything is akin to moonlight mirrored in the water- it ultimately doesn't matter and everything predestined to happen will occur regardless) and this water theming is present in Hong Lu as well (base ego) but it's really interesting to see it Like This.\

And now. there's probably some other stuff I can talk about but I wanna say things about The Elephant In The Room. If you follow my stuff and are caught up on this canto you know what I'm talking about.

I have been compiling a diagram with every mention of Hong Lu's family across all his dialogue. (which you can see here if interested, though it's now outdated for obvious reasons) We only really get vague mentions, the only direct family appearance is Jia Huan, who shows up to say one line and then fucks off.

I was not expecting to get stuff on Hong Lu This Early. They've been giving us mostly crumbs and I was NOT expecting to get hit by All This. I have been surviving on scraps and I just had the Hong Lu lore equivalent of a rotisserie chicken thrown to me. I'm kind of rusty on DOTRC because I haven't touched up on it in a while and as such I cannot give too many details but it's very interesting to see Xichun.

I'm going to check up on Xichun's characterization in the source later because there's so many characters in that book and she wasn't really one I had that close an eye on during my read. From what I remember, she's one of Bao-yu's cousins who lives in the garden with him, and eventually runs away to become a nun when the family starts falling into decline. (mirroring Bao-yu running away to become a monk for the same reasons.) I'm probably missing stuff I'll catch when I go out to reread the book, but based on how she's depicted here it gives me more of an idea about what themes of dotrc they're pushing for canto 8.

They're for sure emphasizing the familial abuse and how fucked up the jia family is. It almost reads like all of the siblings are in competition with each other (building "factions"). and Hong Lu has said his siblings have attempted to kill him before.

Hong Lu has been like this, which lines up with his book equivalent of Bao-yu, who is notorious for being childish/naive and not necessarily working within the pre established rules and conventions set up by his family. I'm curious how he's managed to survive this long with the jias a lot more willing to Kill Eachother.

"My most amicable sibling" fucks me up so much. what the hell is this family's deal man. I'm really curious about this line, because xichun is not a sibling but a cousin in the book. I'm curious what's gonna happen with Bao-chai and Dai-yu in Limbus because it's very challenging to adapt this story without those two. Dai-yu in Dotrc is one of the characters Bao-yu feels most comfortable being himself around. Generally, the female characters in DOTRC are better people than the male ones, and Bao-yu spends most of his time with the girls as a result. I'm curious how/if they'll adapt this because it's a pretty big thing in the book and they serve as an escape for Bao-yu from dealing with the nightmare that is people like his father. I feel if it was happening, they'd probably write Xichun a little kinder, but I don't know nearly enough to make any sort of call yet. Absolutely TERRIFIED (positive. this is a good thing) for what PM is cooking.

I'm gonna have to cut this off here because i have A Lot of thoughts but i also have many assignments to finish and have been typing this for way too long! Thank you for asking the question anon I hope you enjoyed reading some of my thoughts :) !!

[sheepgirlwizard]

for those not in the know this is how each limbus canto has gone in terms of both 7 deadlies and inferno layers (spoilers for the cantos obviously):

canto 1 (Gregor) - Sloth (Represented by the sinners just moving along and not even really processing Gregor's issues fully and various other actions taken in-canto), Anteinferno & Limbo (Punishment for the Opportunists and the Indecisive, and where Virtuous Pagans and those who did no wrong beyond not knowing of Christianity lie)

canto 2 (Rodya) - Despair (Represented by how any plan is immediately derailed and the fact that it takes place in a casino, representing both the despairing losses of those playing and how Despair replaced Greed in the Limbus wheel of seven deadlies) Layer 9 of Treachery (Specifically treachery against one's neighbors.)

canto 3 (Sinclair) - Lust (Well... quite obvious on this one actually. Kinda more Kromer's sin, but she does basically overtake Sinclair's dungeon) Layer 8 of Fraud, Bolgia 7 for Thieves (Evidence for this one: The major bosses fought are not only corroded humans (or humans turned into primal, more beast-like forms) but also use a snake and an abnormality who quite literally steals the forms of others.)

Canto 4 - Gluttony (Again kinda Dongrangs sin but also Yi Sang does embody it with the empty hole he cannot fill, the only difference is he accepts it) Layer 7 Area 2 - Violence against the Self (Despite imagery representing Gluttony's layer, it makes more sense that Yi Sang would represent those who direct violence to the self. Additionally, theres Dongbaek who literally partially turns into a tree, and Dongrang could represent the profligate who self-harm by expending all their resources.)

Canto 5 (Ishmael) - Pride (Not wrath; She views herself as capable of killing a Whale of the great lakes without assistance, and all of the sinners similarly act prideful in a lot of regards) Layer 5 - Wrath (Confusing right? The distinction in this is that the canto features a TON of water, tying into the layer of wrath. additionally, each abnormality can represent the punishment for Wrath in purgatorio - The smoke produced from fires in Skin Prophet, the blindness of DD Siltcurrent. The swampiness of Pearl seems similar to the Inferno punishment. Notably, I think Ishmael is more sullen wrath than outright; she's buried it deep and didn't prior want to inflict it on her crewmates)

Canto 6 - Envy, Layer 2 of Lust (There's... a lot going on in Canto 6, but I think you can divide it neatly. Our Heathcliff's sin is Lust; that's why he's so associated with stormy weather. Erlking's is Violence against God/Nature/Art; you can argue lightning is a kind of burning rain and it makes sense since his presence is kind of a perversion against nature. Cathy's sin is Heresy; hence why she's trapped in a coffin the entire canto, and why the basement features similar coffin-like apparatus melting people into dough.)

Canto 7 (Don Quixote) - Wrath (The entire canto focuses on the hatred against Bloodfiends and filial impiety and other such things. Now for the least surprising part...) Layer 7 Part 1 - Violence against Others (Technically, La Manchaland represents all the areas of Violence; The first is the blatant violence against others as a 'river of blood' in the form of Bloodbags and such bursts forth. Area 2 represents self violence, both literally having a noose in the very first image of the area and is the area where bloodfiends still feast on Hemobars. Area 3 is Violence against God/Nature/Art. If you take a bit of liberty and imagine the confetti as a torturous rain, you have the Bloodfiends who are Violent against Nature running about endlessly.)

now that we've completed a cycle of the deadly sins im so scared to see whats in hong lus canto

[caerbannogmochi]

Limbus Company: Canto 7 Theorycrafting

FIRSTLY: I will be assuming you (the reader) have completed Murder on the Warp Express (MotWE), as well as Time Killing Time (TKT), and are at least vaguely capable of remembering the events of each. This post will discuss spoilers for these intervellos.

Still here? Good. Note that I will refer to the version of Don that we meet at the end of MotWE as "Cervantes"; Even though Project Moon is fairly likely to have a separate character named Cervantes show up at some point, I feel that clarity in the present should take priority (so any time travelers, please try your best to divorce that character from the ideas mentioned in this discussion).

Now, even though this is not the first time there have been two intervello events between Cantos, I believe there is a critical difference between Christmas in District 20/Yield my flesh to claim their bones and TKT/MotWE. With the former two, the first focused on Heathcliff and Don (the former of whom was central to Canto 6) with the second focused on T-corp and how it shaped its associated sinners (Yi-Sang and Heathcliff). However, TKT spends more of its time focused on Rodion, with Don being used almost as a side character (who, granted, gives the main investigative trio supplies for their investigation, which does provide some characterization). MotWE continues this focus on Rodion and how she's doing, even as it establishes Bloodfiend lore, introduces us to Cervantes, and gives Don Quixote fans several smoking guns to be fired at some point.

It is for this reason that I believe this canto will use Rodion as a foil for Don Quixote, in order to characterize both.

Even though this is fundamentally Don Quixote's Canto, Project moon has been putting too much focus on Rodion's personal struggle for the latter to be thrown out into the cold. Besides: using a formerly self-righteous sinner whose literary counterpart grew to regret it as contrast for a currently self-righteous sinner who is downright delusional? Why, it's like adding espresso powder to a chocolate cake. I will even go so far as to theorize that it won't be Don who distorts during this Canto, but Rodion.

Cervantes will almost certainly be forced to reveal herself to the sinners at some point during this Canto, but how this internal reveal will interact with Rodion's mental state is obviously unknown at this time -- but I do believe they will be connected. Don Quixote and Rodion are very likely to fight if this theory is true, and it will likely be a bloody one, although the why and when are also unknown at current. I do suspect that Ryoshu ('artist' as she is) will be the one to comfort Cervantes when this happens, at least in part due to Hong Lu being preoccupied with the impossible task of trying to keep Rodion from distorting. Sinclair's reaction at this point will be indicative of exactly what direction Project Moon wants to take his character (psychic powers, hiding in the closet, or both).

Another thing I'm going to take note of is the contrast between Hubert and Cassetti: although both are placed in positions of power, Hubert starts TKT in a state of apathy (which is eventually dimmed as he travels with Dante before he is revealed to have power) and Cassetti starts MotWE as an overconfident bastard (whose last words are spent begging Cervantes for his life, immediately before she killed him). I seriously doubt that Project Moon threw these two in willy nilly, especially since Hong Lu mentioned Hubert during the intro to MotWE. Rather, I believe that this theme of power and how it is used will continue into Canto 7 proper, although what exactly Project Moon will do with it, once again, remains unknown. All I have are two examples of leaders: one of whom seeks good for others, burned out, and chose to hide his position of power from us; and the other who flaunted his power, reveled in its abuse, and had it taken away.