#buuut it could also be a bpd thing Maybe?

[avpdgirlfriend]

girl who probably has avoidant personality disorder it's fine

[solipsistful]

do you have any info/posts/thoughts about system members with entirely different neurology rather than experiencing the same disorders through different lenses? imo it makes sense to me that the brain can't entirely differ in neuroses across system members, just presentation— but we know of a diagnosed DID system whose psych confirmed only one alter has bipolar disorder, and in my system we can't quite yet reconcile how our highly differing symptoms fit together. mostly curious tbh

We can’t really give Research-Backed Information, if that’s what you’re asking, because there iiiisn’t really research there, as far as we’re aware, beyond the occasional reference to alters potentially presenting with specific issues as a result of being a “limited part” (e.g., depressed because they’re dissociated from any good feelings; personality disordered because they contain only a few extreme behavior patterns). that’s kind of the extent of any Expertise we’ve seen.

Buuut we do have plenty of thoughts, and you asked when we’re as talkative as we have been, so here we go :V

We’re actually kinda in that situation: Serpent has BPD (therapist-acknowledged!) and various trauma-related stuff, structural dissociation, etc. which y’know is meant to have some basis in something neurological. but it’s all related to exotrauma and so sorta by definition can’t be affecting “our” neurology. his mood episodes are sorta different, too – and seem to be on a cycle unrelated to Thomas’ and mine.

(S- “yes yes we know I’m a mess” look there aren’t many other places to point to in this system, ok)

I mean, I’m very much materialist, so theoretically this should all be neurons, but, hm. I guess the big issue to me is treating disorders as distinct neurologies – that A Bipolar Brain is a certain delineated type, and looks the same as all other Bipolar Brains. That’s just not something we can sign onto, not yet. Probably, with a lot of these subjective aspects of multiplicity – identities, whatever makes system members different people, including different disorders – “it’s neurons” explains it only marginally better than “it’s molecules”. like, yes, but where do we go from there.

Like, what are we gonna count as “the same disorders through different lenses” then? Me+Thomas vs. Serpent have very different mood episodes, where we tend atypical and Serpent tends melancholic and possibly psychotic? (there’s overlap with BPD/dissociative psychosis there; like goood the BPD v. bipolar stuff is its own damn mess, if you want to talk mental health categories). Atypical v. melancholic seem to respond differently to medication, and psychosis bumps one into either bipolar I or schizoaffective territory. So, does that all get captured as “makes sense because bipolar”, or is that Supposedly Impossible?

I guess the point I’m getting at is that we’re suspicious of anything that claims too solidly that all the features of X disorder can be boiled down to neural mechanisms (and are therefore either fully absent or present across a system). And most takes on mental illness don’t! Disorders are just as often talked about as maladaptive thought patterns or as having a cognitive causal “step” in between neuron and symptom: PTSD isn’t “just” an overactive amygdala (it isn’t identified “just” in the amygdala, but I’m simplifying); it’s taking various maladaptive steps to avoid that anxiety (avoidance symptoms), possible behaviorist-model trained responses, etc. Bipolar is treated with the same sorts of CBT that people throw against more environmental depressions.

You can probably get at the same result from all sorts of different underlying neurologies, possibly via similar cognitive mechanisms (otherwise, comorbidity would not make sense – how could both bipolar and OCD, imagined as separate things, be influencing the same brain?). You can probably get at lots of different results from the same underlying neurological structures (in whatever way you want to take two brains and compare them). That’s sorta a nature vs. nurture question, I think – to what extent does external context influence symptoms? But also, to what extent does internal context influence symptoms?

If that makes sense? That is, maybe there’s something where “the same neurological structure”, working through the sociocognitive structure we call “Ace”, results in a depressive mood episode and whatever else you want to say about me; through Serpent and his specific set of memories and tendencies, it’s depersonalization.

… i feel like im making a category mistake there, but this whole thing is just mind-body dualism fuckery, isn’t it.

anyway, im not really that skilled on the neuroscience side of things, so take that aspect of things with a grain of salt ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ still, i’m always struck by the idea that it should “make sense” that Serpent and me are both bipolar, even when i look at his depression and go “wtf are these symptoms, pathological guilt?? immense self-loathing??” that it’s weirder that Serpent considers himself allistic, than the fact that we once had a headmate with such a different set of autistic traits that it was kinda hard to communicate with him at times. And that “different mental illnesses” is more striking, more in need of explanation than “different ages; different genders (aren’t people trying to find the neurological basis of that?); different MBTI profiles; whatever.”

- Ace