#but this one has 2 much lore. I’ll die if it breaches containment. u understand.

[ssruis]

Responding ⬇️

@shiraishi--kanade You've phrased it much more eloquently than I could tbh (and, just telling: you absolutely do have a voice even if your disability doesn't impact your life as badly as some other peoples', if anything I find your perspective extremely interesting and needed). I think this discussion boils down to "yes canonically Saki is behaving in this way however this is a conscious decision on the writers part and it's Bad and we're allowed to dislike it"

I think fandom spaces in general have an issue with like... For lack of a better word, which is sorely needed here, anthropomorphising characters to the point where critising writing choices and the way they react to some thing is taken as a personal attack as if you're critiquing a real breathing human being with baggage and trauma and not a 2d drawing with voice acting;

And I see this in particular *a lot* with portrayal of disability and also mental illness in media. Which is ??? So backwards? How are we supposed to get better rep if we're going to put "doing the bare minimum" characters on a podium?

Yeah anyway. May I offer you a sympathetic nod. I feel like I'm even less impacted than you are tbh (in large parts because my arthritis doesn't hold a candle to RHD which I've had since childhood) but this has been an insightful read.

Thank you I’m glad my perspective is informative… I prefer to always give a disclaimer when talking abt saki & disability, because developing RA later in life & not requiring hospitalization means I can’t speak from a place of experience wrt the severity of her illness and the impact it had on her as a child. RA was very eye opening for me in that I’ve always supported accessibility and have long time friends/acquaintances with disabilities but there are so many things you just… don’t notice until they’re staring you in the face even if you’re involved in advocacy.

My first college’s campus and dorms aren’t accessible at all (dorm w a bunk bed with no bottom bunk (climbing that thing sucked), campus built on a hill with a “disability friendly��� route to get around that went through like 3 buildings and was 3x as long as the regular route), my current college has a building that requires stairs to get to the elevator, the train stop closest to where I live & several other stops don’t have elevators or even escalators. Loved ones who go “ofc I support those with disabilities” reveal themselves to be far less supportive than you’d expect when your disability impacts your life & they’re mad about it impacting theirs. Etc. All that to say: I’m very cognizant of the fact that there is still things I just wouldn’t get that someone who relates more to saki would.

& yeah this fanbase gets so angry about any criticism towards the characters like. They’re not real. There’s a team of writers behind them. People are allowed to criticize the writing choices. “Stop saying saki should be mad it’s ooc” idc. Make it in character. Consider why you’re more defensive over a fictional character than you are willing to listen to those with disabilities.

Sympathetic nod to you as well I always enjoy hearing your takes (related or unrelated to pjsk’s treatment of disability) they’re very informative.

@starfilledsky2810 There's nothing of note that I could add, and it's put so amazingly already, I just want to tell you personally that yeah. this is a discussion that needs to be had and you put it amazingly

Thank u 🫶🫶

@wxsmiku completely agree. i really wish her view of “i’m a burden to my family/of course honashiho didn’t visit! the hospital is so far and it would be awkward anyway” wasn’t just passed over. it’s so so so unfair to her, & it’s not ok. not even mentioning how past Stella there’s not really any big mention of her illness affecting her goals. i can’t imagine how much more frustrating it is to someone who’s actually experienced it, thank you for sharing your thoughts so eloquently

Thank uu & yeah it’s so irritating to me that like. Her views are never challenged. To an extent I get why they don’t want to focus too hard on her illness to avoid having her story center entirely around it, but I wish they’d at least try to find a happy medium where she’s still impacted even if she’s doing better now. Just coming from my own personal experience, sometimes the disability *does* impact your goals pretty severely and that should be normalized.

Going into graphic design/having art as a hobby/enjoying the miku tap tap game (all things that involve a lot of hand/finger movements) with the “every time i do a lot repetitive motions or put stress on my joints or even just bend them a lot my immune system goes ‘die die die’ at my joints and I’m in pain” disease is a bummer.

I took a print making class for a required art credit and carving the linoleum for linocuts/filing down the metal edges & carving into the metal for etching and aquatints was. So incredibly painful and difficult. I remember posting on the RA forum on reddit at my wits end like “please help is there a way to do this that won’t hurt me so I can keep up with the assignments” & receiving a response that started with “unfortunately, sometimes we have to face our limitations and have patience with ourselves — it’s not that we can’t, but that it may just take us longer so we don’t hurt ourselves.” Which made me ugly cry because it was the first time I’d ever heard anything like that. All that to say: it’s unfortunate that colopale went the route they did instead of showing saki struggling but still finding a way to pursue her goals in a healthy manner that accommodates her limitations, which is a something I think would be far more helpful to see for those with disabilities than “if you can dream it you can do it <3”. Idk saki1(?) kinda covered that but it didn’t really feel satisfactory given that it was a cold & solved with bed rest.

Also I wish they’d let her be upset and feel things beyond “I’m so grateful for what I have now.” Me @ saki: (insert where is your rage RISE RISE RISE meme that will lag the app horribly if I try to actually put it in here).

@sakitenmaenjoyer yeah. i can see what the writers are going for (her wanting to experience life to the fullest/not wanting to feel any negative way) but it realllyy feels like inspiration porn sometimes.....and her illness doesnt rlly physcially affect her at all atp. i mean it affects her fomo, and we get the occasional "dont push yourself", but thats it.

saki's character was built to be the positive genki girl, and i think that was intentional. if she Wasnt one, then the writers would have to write her angry, and frustrated, and bitter. but they decided "oh no she just thinks she's a burden/she forgives her friends for ditching her/she just wants to enjoy life". they crafted this positive girl whos felt sad but Its Okay Now

which i can imagine can be inspiring for some, but deeply frustrating as disability rep for others/most people. ty for making a post like this 👍

Thank u thank u… glad to hear this from a saki scholar (said by someone who has read most of her events on eng but has bad memory & needs to catch up/do some rereading)

I like saki being very positive and happy, & a part of me is glad that she’s not super bitter/a character that has a story that just focuses around her chronic illness, but I so desperately want colopale to let her have negative feelings about the things she’s experienced. @ colopale Do something like you did w Emu where she’s confronted on hiding her negative feelings and told that it’s ok to be upset…

Watsonian take: Saki’s character of hiding when she’s unwell and feeling like a burden so she puts on a “I’m happy and everything is fine” act so nobody worries makes her attitude wrt her illness understandable.

Of course she doesn’t express any anger at honami or shiho for cutting contact with her while she was in the hospital - coming all that way was probably such a bother for them, it’s her fault for inconveniencing them. She should just be grateful they’re all friends again & they’re willing to put up with her! If she was angry about it they might get mad, because it’s not their problem she had to be hospitalized & they didn’t do anything wrong, and if they get mad they might leave again! She doesn’t have the right to be upset about them not wanting to deal with her burdens. Now that she’s better they can just put it all behind them. That was ages ago anyways, why dredge up old things that they clearly don’t care about anymore. It’s all water under the bridge!

⬆️ her mindset, not mine obviously, although I will say that’s literally the exact same mindset I had wrt my friends with the whole “are you seriously asking us to take covid precautions whatever just don’t come to the party/hangout/etc if you’re going to be like that”/“welcome to college we will not be hanging out with you because you’re no fun anymore & don’t wanna go out because it hurts to move” -> I transferred and got better friends & proper meds & had to be told by other people “no actually that was shitty you should be mad about that” -> “hey you’re back in town let’s hang out you’re our friend and we love you a lot (not addressing anything bc they don’t think they did anything wrong & if I did bring it up it would be a whole fight where I’m in the wrong)” thing happened. People you love and who love you in return are capable of hurting you immensely sometimes life just sucks etc etc. boring but unfortunately extremely relevant lore dump because it backs up my point that yeah saki being like this makes a lot of sense imo and it’s very realistic.

Doylist take: saki isn’t real and her views are the result of a team of writers. While they’re pretty realistic from my experience I think it’s ridiculous that these views are never challenged and instead basically affirmed as true. The writers *can* address that saki deserves to be upset and that honami/shiho kinda sucked for that, and it can be done in a way that is in line with her established characterization, but they’re *choosing* not to, and it’s valid to criticize that choice. Because it sucks. It’s not a healthy message to send.

Literally just have saki realize that she deserves to be upset -> struggle to bring it up because she’s afraid of abandonment/they’ll be upset at her for blaming them and she still thinks she should be over it + since honami/shiho didn’t mean to hurt her she’d be making them feel guilty for no reason -> canon typical deus ex vocaloid moment where Luka is like “actually I think you should bring this up for closure’s sake” -> she finally brings it up and shiho/honami apologize and all is forgiven. go friendship. Ichika voice im glad you brought this up we really Leo/needed to have this discussion (ichika asked to leave L/N for making the worst joke ever). Or something along those lines.

Idk the treatment of saki’s disability by the writers just irritates me bc like (& full disclosure this is written by someone who’s chronically ill but able to live w/o major symptoms) there’s so little thought put into how her disability specifically intersects with her mental health & overall life beyond a general Inspirational Look At Her Go She Can Overcome Anything type of take.

I dislike fully articulating my thoughts but to sum it up my experience with my own chronic illness was manifestation at 18 -> horrifically managed for 2 years bc doctors/parents did not take it seriously -> in so much pain that I couldn’t really move until i was put on immunosuppressants during peak covid and I watched close friends treat me like a burden for wanting the group to take covid precautions/abandon me because I couldn’t Party Hard anymore (to the point where one friend brought me somewhere where her friend fucking had Covid and sat next to me & then she texted me the next day like whoops heehee) -> severe depression & life ruining ensued. My family had to deny a good insurance opportunity bc my RA was an existing condition & they wouldn’t pay for my meds for two years and I had the fun side effect of my mom implying it was my fault/it was a burden over it. Etc etc. I don’t want to get into the full story because it’s unfun and also lengthy but I want to provide context for why saki’s treatment bugs me.

Her not really caring about honami/shiho not visiting bugs me. I get that life gets in the way but them going (semi?) no contact is a little shitty. Being disabled & not being allowed to be upset about the treatment you receive from your loved ones because you know they don’t see it as a big deal is. So frustrating. She deserves to be upset with them for that and have a conversation about it. There’s so much pressure on people w disabilities to essentially go “yeah I am a burden it’s my fault so I’m grateful you’re even spending time with me” that’s reflected in saki’s story and never challenged.

I’m too tired to articulate the complexity of her dynamic w tsukasa but it also frustrates me that it’s only touched upon that saki feels like she inconveniences him by being sick/she thinks him going out of his way for her is a burden. I love tsukasa and I’m obsessed w how much he cares about his sister but I also think saki deserves to be frustrated with how neurotic he is about an illness that isn’t his own.

So much abt being disabled (especially for those who are more affected than I am - I want to make that clear) is being told by society that you are a burden for needing accommodations/costing your family money/struggling with things able bodied people can do/etc. & saki very clearly feels a lot of that but it never gets challenged. Something that’s always stuck with me was seeing a tiktok where someone was like “actually I AM a burden bc I cost my parents money for antidepressants/adhd meds” which was so…. Buddy as someone on those meds and also 4/5 other drugs to manage the chronic illness I don’t want to hear shit from you abt being a burden. Imagine having panic attacks over career choices & fucking up your schooling permanently because you’re petrified of not having stable insurance to pay for the overpriced meds that keep you from being in agony and your friends/family don’t take it seriously because you look fine even though you can barely move without extreme pain and nobody in your life understands it or attempts to do so and you feel like the doctors don’t care because they give you meds & no diagnosis and you’re still in a pain that defies description. And your disability gets in the way of your passions and you can’t just muscle through it because doing so would fuck your body up even more. & then get back to me. Whatever. Doesn’t matter. Moving on.

I don’t know if the colopale writing team has anyone w a disability but I feel like saki’s chronic illness essentially being a thing of the past & she’s just like “I’m fine now” is shitty. Ig it fits with her character but also she’s a fictional character and the writers are capable of addressing this. and they’re not. I want to see saki being told that she’s allowed to be mad and she’s allowed to feel unwell and she’s allowed to not be inspiration porn and she’s allowed to have ugly feelings and address those & that she’s not a burden and it’s ok to rely on others when you’re struggling.