#but then again they’re a midleven

[midnightmoon27]

No but why am I seeing this shit in my suggestions?? 😫

[eightfifteen]

Yet again, the thing about the 'ily', the 'you never say it', the 'i say it' and the 'i didn't say it' and the most infamous 'you didn't have to' is the fact that [Whateven] is always unnecessarily flashy, loud, and for the audience (their friends) to watch it happen. While Mike and Will's *friend*ship is about the moments they have by themselves, the bubble they create around each other with Mike's infamous little voice and all. It's for them not for an audience, and that'a why they don't have to say anything, the rules were already established between them, they underatand each other in a deeper level. That's why i believe in them.

I’ve always liked midleven in s3 not because I enjoy the ship, but because I enjoy how it’s such a valid and real representation of 14yos in their first relationship. Where it’s all fun and dramatic and unserious. Like the way Eleven breaks up with Mike is such a fun and silly moment - neither really cares all that much because they’re barely teenagers and it’s not that deep.

And it’s HUGELY performative - teenagers in their first relationship don’t know any better; they’re just following a script that’s been written for them by whatever teen romcoms are popular at the time. They’re told that they’re in love so they are, and when they break up they’re upset and whiny because they’re supposed to be. Mike laying on that couch is so dramatic and so Mike (bc bby Mike is very dramatic) but he doesn’t actually seem to care all that much about the feelings involved- it’s all very mechanical.

Mike’s interactions with Will, as you said, are the complete opposite. Will is the way that Mike actually learns what love is, beyond first crushes and middle school drama. It’s how he learns that love isn’t how it’s portrayed in media, isn’t what you think it will be. It’s not grand gestures and Say Anything - it’s the little things like taking care of each other and feeling comfortable in each other’s space. It’s forgiveness and acceptance and focusing on every little detail. It’s not about making out or ‘you-and-me-vs-everyone-else’ - it’s about talking about anything, sitting in comfortable silence, meeting in the middle, caring about something just because they do, etc

And I think it’s just such a beautiful story and interpretation and I can’t wait to see more.

Sorry about going on a rant but you’re just so right

[nances]

i am rearticulating myself once again.

midleven!! served!! as!! a prop!! to make the general audience empathize with will and feel bad for him!

not the other way around! i am very much convinced that this is a conscious narrative choice and we’ll see the implications of that in the next season!

His arc is NOT finished. There is a reason they introduced this plot line with Will being in love with Mike and it is NOT resolved yet. They’re not leaving it here.

There’s a reason why midleven felt artificial and anticlimactic.

Because s4 released in 2 parts, we backed ourselves into a corner theorizing about mike’s conformity and midleven’s fate when it was clearly too early for that.

This is where the plot line was headed all along, we just misunderstood the set up. This is groundwork for Will’s arc in regards to Mike and it definitely would’ve seemed rushed, especially to the GA, if we had gotten canon byler by vol.2.

[blueeandyellowmakesgreen]

Thinking about how Mike kind of sees his romantic relationship with El like an exchange. Like, if he kisses her then she’ll stay her girlfriend, if he says he love you then she won’t leave him, and if he forces out an apology, then at least they’ll stay together, even if he doesn’t mean it. It’s like the fucking m&m’s apology in s3, he doesn’t apologizes because of himself really, he blames it on hopper, he gives her the candy and now they’re back again, it’s not genuine both of get something of it, and that’s how their love works. And then, then there’s Will, who is so so selfless, and you could say doesn’t get nothing of it, he didn’t got nothing of lying about the painting, or just being Midleven’s own couple counselor, but he loves Mike, even if he thinks he doesn’t love him back. I love you and you don’t pay me. And when Mike finds out that someone, just someone, loves him without wanting anything back, then it’s over for him.

holy shit this didnt even occur to me. the contrasts just keep handing themselves like a silver platter. how mike's love for el seems to be an exchange, while will's is completely unconditional . youre a genius

[wakeupthemembersofbylernation]

There are so many things wrong with this post, I don’t even know where to begin.

“It’s like you actively want him to be a terrible person… it’s like you actually think Will is petty enough to be jealous about Mike’s love confession to El”

This is such a strange thing to say because what are they even attacking here? They’re not attacking the concept of canon reciprocated Byler; they’re attacking the literal text of the show- Will being in love with Mike- and twisting it so that it’s somehow “petty” for Will to be a real human being- a real human teenage boy, mind you- with genuine feelings. Is he supposed to feel no emotion at all? Loving Mike and feeling heartbroken doesn’t make him a terrible person? What are they even saying? And to call it “petty” when Will did nothing but show how selfless he was all season? When Will is the one who repeatedly pushed Mike Huckabee together and encouraged Mike to keep monologuing even as it dug his own romantic grave and visibly killed him inside? You don’t have to ship Byler if you don’t want to- it will still be endgame tho, lmao- but why can’t everyone unite on feeling empathetic and compassionate towards Will and the impossible situation he finds himself in? Why is there such a Mad Libs instinct to downplay Will’s CANON feelings for his lifelong best friend?

“… when it literally saved her life.”

It literally didn’t? I’m not saying it played NO role in the battle at all- that’s a separate debate- but I guarantee you the thing that gave El the strength to fight on was NOT Mike finally saying I Love You in an incoherent monologue where he said nothing specific about her, repeatedly emphasized her superpowers, and also talked about the Benny’s Burgers T-Shirt that almost swallowed her whole when they met. If any aspect of Mike’s monologue inspired her, it was the “Fight! Fight!” portion as she looked to her best friend Max and gained courage to continue fighting for her. Her true love. Not Mike’s “love confession,” motivated by Will’s painting, which they didn’t even talk about after. This isn’t a Disney movie. The cosmic Midleven love didn’t save the world. The gates opened. Max fell into a coma. The heroes lost. Hawkins fell.

“You think Will is such a bad person that his sister is dying and he’s thinking “gosh, I wish Mike loved me instead”?

Will contains multitudes. He can both deeply love his sister and want her to live, which is why he’s pushing Mike to continue monologuing, while also wishing Mike loved him instead. Which again, is a CANON, central aspect of Will’s character, not something Bylers are just making up just to ship two characters together. Of course, Will wishes Mike loved him. Will Byers adores Mike Wheeler, AND he adores him enough to attempt to rip the bandaid off so that your rapidly sinking ship can see one more day and his bestie can be happy even though he’s clearly not. That was like the entire point of their S4 storyline and why Will was so emotional every time Mike talked to him.

“According to your theories, [Mike] has been stringing Will’s sister along for over a year while actually being in love with someone else”

According to what theories? That’s such a weird oversimplification and exaggeration of Byler theories. It’s a straw man argument. No one, not even those who place Mike the furthest possible point on the Kinsey scale, believes that “stringing Will’s sister along for over a year” is an accurate description of what Mike has been doing. Do they have no compassion for the complexity of the situation that a queer Mike would find himself in: the possible internalized homophobia, the definite confusion, the likely terror and uncertainty, the guilt and self-hatred, the butterflies that probably feel like pterodactyls? The two people he’s closest to abruptly move away across the country- his lifelong best friend who he might feel something more for and the girl with superpowers he’s literally dating and trauma-bonded to and whose dad just died?

“If Will got together with that theoretical Mike that would make him an asshole”

Good thing you’re right, in a roundabout way. That theoretical Mike doesn’t exist and is based on a strawman you made up. Mike literally can’t be “stringing El along” since neither Will nor El have been present in Hawkins. But even if they had been, and even if he had consciously chosen to lie to El about his feelings, and even if Mike has made mistakes- which he obviously has: he’s fourteen and a human being - it still wouldn’t make him an “asshole.” He’s just a scared and confused queer kid trying desperately to stay normal, trying desperately to stay afloat. Somehow our theories make Mike seem like an asshole to you, but Mike being rude and weird to Will for no reason (not even being able to hug him!), Mike not being able to tell his girlfriend he loves her and openly gaslighting her about it, and Mike crumpling up romantic letters from El with no explanation all make him perfectly valid???

“This is specifically about the “canon Byler trutherism crowd” that insists Byler is gonna happen in season 5.”

Well, I mean, of course there are Byler enjoyers out there who don’t believe it’ll be canon or who lost faith after volume II and never regained it (we welcome back all prodigal children at any time), but yeah… one of the central aspects of our ship especially following season 4’s pretty transparent Byler plotline is the belief that it will be canon, not because of any arbitrary or “delusional” reason but literally because the narrative is setting it up and televising it. But you got me, I guess?

“Mike just suddenly ditches El and gets with Will”

Strawman. Stop it, you know no one is arguing that’s what will happen. We believe there’s a nuanced and beautiful storyline being set up. And most of us believe El will break up with Mike first. But regardless, there’s nothing sudden about Byler in season 5 when Mike has always looked like he wants to risk it all and kiss Will.

“This is only directed at the one’s I’ve seen bashing I Can't Believe It's Not Butter! constantly and harassing Mulan II blogs and just overall bad fandom etiquette.”

Says the ship that constantly sends out insane, unhinged homophobic asks and openly trash talks Will, wishing death on him and calling him slurs? You won’t catch any misogynistic anti-El asks sliding into your DMs. Look- I’m not denying there are toxic Bylers out there. No fandom is composed of saints. But when you survey where the vast majority of the “bad fandom etiquette” comes from, it’s pretty lopsided lmao.

[bylertruther]

bylers: maybe u Shouldn’t compare mike to all of eleven’s parental figures like it’s a cute and romantic thing that supports your, again, romantic ship lol

midlevens: WOW… bylers are sooooo toxic i remember when the fandom wasn’t like this they’re all so mean and hateful and basically just told me to kms :(

[nances]

With the way vol.2 was constructed and most loose ends were left untied, there’s still the fact that Will lied about El commissioning the painting, and he was essentially spilling his own guts during his speech about El. Narratively, this is an unfinished plot point that still requires resolving. It still needs to be addressed. Now I really don’t know if they actually plan on doing that. After the release of vol.2 the Duffers lost all of their credibility as meticulous writers. I really thought they were going to address Eddie not knowing about Mike’s gf being the girl with superpowers. And the fact that Nancy never even exchanged a word with El makes her vecna-moment very lackluster. There’s tons of other, genuinely poor narrative choices, that ended up being cheaply tossed aside by pulling the earthquake situation.

If I was in their shoes, I’d go about it by bringing it up next season. There would have to be a lot of buildup, and Will, along with Mike would essentially have to be on the forefront of the story. Part of me wants the juxtaposition of season 2 back, part of me is afraid Will’s only job is going to be looking frightened and touching his neck again. It looks like there’s a SLIGHT chance they’re setting it up like this, Will is a target of the supernatural again and Mike won’t leave his side. Unless they really flushed his character down the toilet. I wouldn’t be surprised if at this point we’ll never see them go back to how they were pre-season 3.

It would essentially have to be something leading up to a real confession. In an ideal world, we’d see their development, and they’d probably progress much like season 2 jancy. We’d have to see Mike struggling to figure things out at first. It would all lead up to a moment of clarity for Mike. What you said about El - you weren’t really talking about how she felt, were you? This would most likely have to happen before the third act, during which we could possibly finally see whether there’s going to be reciprocity. And all this would require them to put a very huge strain on Mike and El’s relationship, once again. And this is where it gets particularly hopeless; this would be the third damn time, and it’s highly unlikely that they’d go through with it yet again. That is why I at least, wasn’t so devastated with the fact that there was no explicit byler lead-up, but more so that they ended up rekindling midleven once again.

Then there’s the stancy stuff. Part of me wants to believe this is something they’ll touch on next time, because they left it quite unresolved here. It didn’t make any sense narratively to throw that in there for no reason, and shrug it off later.

Now we shouldn’t by any means put trust in Noah Schnapp’s words, but he did say “They just can’t end it there.” I presume they’re talking about the outcome of vol.2 and where it left Mike and Will. He also said it’s going to be very special and real when he actually comes out, this was a particularly irritably-charged response to a tiktok that was criticizing the aspect of using Will’s feelings as a prop, so at least they’re aware. Still, I’m not going to put a lot of importance in his words since we did end up getting trolled big time.

Then again, I have no faith whatsoever left, and I wouldn’t get my hopes too high up, since we’ve been let down twice now. These people literally don’t rewatch their show and they’ve forgotten numerous important details. Wouldn’t be surprised at all if they just left the storyline unresolved altogether. I just thought this was something to consider.