#but that would require the writers actually putting him in said episodes to begin with

[notmoreflippingelves]

Wardrobe Appreciation

↳ Esteban Flores (Elena of Avalor)

[gayofthefae]

"The van scene is just for Will's plotline it doesn't affect Mike" what if I said the opposite was true. What if I said it did not serve as a climax for Will because he had already demonstrated an ability for honesty, vulnerability, and the self-assurance required in his confrontation of Mike in episode 2. What if I said that it only served his story as an inciting incident for the Jonathan coming out scene - a scene which, as I've said before, was the actual climax of his season arc, which was about his queerness, not Mike.

It is a setup for Mike, we know that, but it also doesn't really directly serve Will's arc at all. It is a self sabotage - setup for season 5, but something we already know him to do. It is a transition point for Mike. And it is the straw that breaks the camel's back for Jonathan. Besides that, it speaks directly to the audience at best. But it does not serve Will. He gets nothing truly off his chest because he is not unburdened - if anything worse off because he gave up his hope, he doesn't teach us things we couldn't otherwise deduce, and it moves him no internally closer to closure.

The speech only serves for Mike to react to and Jonathan to witness (and the cinematography reflects that). The following scenes reflect that too. The only scenes of importance in either plot following that are Will's scene with Jonathan and Mike telling El he loves her. Both directly tied to the speech, Mike's more textually, and no independently actionable resolution for Will.

This was the post but I had more thoughts, per usual

Will has a theme of unactionable resolutions. In episode 2 he is honest and from there the ball is in Mike's court. His most actionable plot is the painting, which he has demonstrated the vulnerability for already but the self-prioritization required is not a line he as a character is willing to cross, something that isn't a character flaw in need of resolution given what he logically believes the effects would be. The ball is in Mike's court from the beginning and remains there. And will remain there. Will had no arc necessity to confess because not confessing exposed no character flaws (shoutout to the writers for not presenting choosing to remain in the closet as a character flaw!!!). He was put in a helpless position of heartbreak and sadness and, like all of us wanted for him, wanted to do something about it, wanted to be able to do something about it, so he tried, but ultimately realized that the risk outweighed the reward, and the cost of the reward (El) would outweigh it anyways. That is logical. He is logical. He does everything logically. He is helpless this season. And he wants to believe he isn't, and we want to believe he isn't, but he is. Because the ball is in Mike's court. It was then and it is now. And it has been since the Snow Ball, really.

Because in December, 1984, after Will's perpetual but logical inaction towards a relationship, Mike took action against one. And since, it has been his job to undo, and his job to communicate contradictory to his actions that he wants one. Inaction does not require a solution unless it is representative of a problem to be solved. Will's is not. Mike's problem is he takes protective action impulsively when he gets scared that ultimately traps and harms him and others. Mike's problem is not inaction either. If they had stayed silently pining 13 year olds forever it would not have been a character flaw on either of their parts. But Mike took unnecessary - understandable, but unnecessary - action in the eyes of the plot. One can debate whether he did it in December 1983. Or whether he did it in July 1985. Or whether he did it in March 1986 when he ignored Will, because silence is not inaction if it as an active change. But no matter when it became an unnecessary choice,

The ball is in his court because it was never in anyone else's. The ball is in his court because Will never stepped foot on a court. Will isn't playing the game, he didn't pick up a ball. He sat in the stands and watched. In March 1986, he moved to the bench and Jonathan saw him but still, he never stepped foot on the court. He was never playing the game. (Apologies. This isn't a stupid sports game)/ref.

The ball is in Mike's court because as far as actionable plotlines reflecting internal growth go, Mike and Will's relationship is and always has been Mike's plot. Will's is allowing himself to take up space; he's getting closer, and allowing himself to have Mike will be the ultimate demonstration of that, just not its purpose. But Mike's is Will.

[mariaofdoranelle]

ik that was the last flashback but do you think we could get some insight on what’s going through rowan’s bird brain during this time 😭 like i refuse to believe he really believed what he said to aelin.

Nonnie, that’s cheating. You know I can’t interfere with your interpretation of the fic. And you also know every writer’s favorite activity is to talk about their own work hehehe 😆, so let’s do a

Deep analysis of the “breakup”, and how Rowan’s mental health shapes his relationship with Aelin throughout LAUN.

Warnings: Major Depressive Disorder (MDD) and Postpartum Depression (PPD)

Words: 1,4k

The whole point of this is to explain Rowan’s side. I know he’s wrong, this is just a deep dive into his head.

Let’s begin at the beginning: Aelin and Rowan had very different childhoods. Aelin lost both her parents at 8yo, was raised by two men who never planned to have kids and had no idea what to do with one—even if Orlon and Darrow love her very much—spent her whole life in and out of therapists’ offices and got diagnosed with depression at a very young age.

Meanwhile, Rowan was raised in a big family, with his biological parents who were very much in love.

With that being said, we can understand why he had bigger expectations about his family than she did.

While Aelin had no expectations about Rowan stepping up when the pregnancy was revealed, he wondered if they should marry. While Aelin just wanted to get her own house to raise the baby and not be a bigger burden to Orlon, Rowan was asking her to move in with him.

A broken home with lots of unhappiness and disappointment? Another day in the life of Aelin Galathynius. But not in Rowan’s. He’s clueless about Aelin’s MDD, and he’s subconsciously desperate to get that picture-perfect family he grew up in. When his baby mama tells him she’s tired, it doesn’t even cross his mind that it’s the kind of tiredness that requires a psychiatrist.

In other words: he was sunshine, she was midnight rain 🥲 at least in this aspect. moving on.

And Aelin… she was recovering from giving birth. That’s the reason she wouldn’t get out of bed. […] Rowan would pour his heart out, put a ring on her finger, and have as many children as she wanted. He’d do it when the time was right.

The excerpt above from ch. 13 is a good sum up of where his mind was at during those two months, but it all comes crashing down on the last flashback.

“You’re not,” he repeated with dazed eyes, as if he was saying that to himself. “We’re happy. You’re just a little overwhelmed, but we’re a small, happy family.”

The whole thing was so brutal, but Rowan didn’t mean to be a jerk, that’s actually a typical response when someone’s being pulled out of denial. It was a big moment for Rowan, but it wasn’t about him.

Aelin was right there in front of him, and she needed him. She’s the one who’s vulnerable. She’s the one struggling. It’s not her job to convince Rowan to support her.

So. Rowan’s dumb and clueless, but he would’ve supported her if he wasn’t in such deep denial. Still, that’s not enough for Aelin.

At that moment, he didn’t have what it took to support her the way she needed, and she wasn’t in the condition to accept that.

Because, if we think about it, that was a big moment for Aelin too.

She was exhausted, she was in the middle of a PPD episode, and she was telling someone about her mental illness for the first time. It was terrible timing for both of them, but that was a crucial moment for Aelin and she was the one who needed support the most.

Aelin can’t just sit there and watch her entire world crumble while her baby daddy comes to terms with the picture-perfect family he created in his own head.

Besides, Aelin’s always been guarded about her illness. If she was afraid of the stigma surrounding regular depression, the one about PPD can get a lot worse. We know that Rowan would have supported her, but Aelin doesn’t when he looks deep into her eyes and tells her she doesn’t need antidepressants.

Dorian only found out about her PPD because he had previous knowledge of her history with mental illness, connected the dots and offered help. When he tried to ask her about it, her only answer was Maisy Daisy and I have some girl time together because that’s Aelin’s nature.

Even when she’s hunting demons, being chased by entire governments and being played by the gods as if she was a The Sims character, she doesn’t complain. So she wouldn’t complain about PPD either unless she was on her breaking point because we need to get the plot going lol

But there’s another thing: Rowan also doesn’t see what’s going on. He’s not at home most of the day, but when he is, he takes over so Aelin can rest. She’s never overworked when he’s present. The problem lies on when she’s alone, so he doesn’t witness the worst of her PPD because he’s a helpful dad.

We can see this on ch. 14 when he says, “Every day I come home and you tell me everything went fine, but today we need a sitter all of a sudden.”

And she replies, “[…] You wouldn’t know that because I’m your extra pair of hands when you’re with her, but what about me?”

To sum things up, Rowan didn’t know much and was in denial about the little he knew.

Again, I’m not defending him. In denial or not, this wasn’t about him, and he wasn’t there when she needed him the most.

Now, let’s see

How things are looking now

Taking a look at the present time, things are still a mess.

Rowan starts the fic still out of touch with the mental health topic. He’s not aware it’s the main reason that got him kicked out of Aelin’s house, so he moved on with his life without giving it a second thought. We saw it on ch. 5, when he expressed his thoughts on family therapy:

“Of course Elide would think that. She's a psychiatrist. These people think anything can be cured with a few hours of counseling.”

But the thing is: Rowan isn’t psychophobic, he just doesn’t realize how much he and Aelin need it. For him, meds and therapy are very far away concepts, a last resort for people who really need it. Not his family. Duh. [yeah ik he’s dumb lol]

And when you’re detached from an issue, when you think it’s nothing more than a far away concept for other people to deal with, you forget how close it could be to your own life.

Rowan never dealt with mental health issues in his childhood. He’s an engineer. He’s in the military, but Doranelle’s a peaceful country, which means there’s no invading countries left and right to cause a PTSD epidemic within the armed forces. The closest thing from the mental health topic he has is Lorcan, a psychiatrist’s husband.

So he isn’t intentionally hurting Aelin, but lack of awareness is a very powerful weapon to hurt the people we love without us realizing it.

But this isn’t just about Aelin anymore, is it?

Rowan’s taking care of a little terror alone half the time, and it took a toll on his mental health too.

He had a panic attack so bad it made him run to the hospital on ch. 3, after he found out Maisie’s teacher was verbally abusing her. However, he completely discarded that episode when the doctor (Sam 💀) made it clear it wasn’t a heart attack. The only thing he had to say about it, two chapters later, was:

He blamed Cortland for implying that Rowan had anxiety in front of Aelin. The doctor was just bitter after things ended with her, and said that to make him look bad. That was the only explanation.

Rowan doesn’t have a disorder. He’s just a concerned father who had an erratic heartbeat after a stressful moment. It’s merely being human.

And while Rowan still hasn’t acknowledged his own need for help, he acknowledged Aelin’s. Its start was very bumpy, on ch. 6 when he learned she sees a therapist:

“Still! Since when do you do therapy? What’s wrong with you? […] Respectfully. I’m respectfully asking what’s wrong with you.”

We saw some progress on ch. 9:

Rowan didn’t miss the part about her being depressed during her teenage years, especially how she tried to laugh it off. The same way she downplayed her going to therapy weeks ago.

“So…” Rowan cleared his throat. “How are you now? With the… Yrene stuff.”

And on ch. 12 we learn he now accompanies her to Yrene’s office when he’s off work!

Now that we took this trip down memory lane, we see that while their process of falling in love was relatively quick, they can’t make it work without proper communication, understanding, and awareness of each other’s issues—especially their own.

Nowadays, Rowan doesn’t know exactly what’s going on with Aelin, but now he’s aware she has issues that require professional help, and he seems to be a lot more ready to deal with this matter than he was five years ago.

On the other side, he’s still dumb enough to fuck up again. I don’t know! We’ll see what happens next chapter 😆 what do y’all think?

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[ravenya003]

Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Angel, S01E07

Remember in The Goonies when Sean Austin whispered: “it all starts here…”? That’s what this episode is for so much of what’s to come. It’s when the writers finally settle on who and what Angel is, and lay down the groundwork for the entirety of his story – not only in the next three seasons of Buffy, but in his own future spin-off. (Making it apt that the episode is simply called “Angel”).

As it marks such a turning point in the show, it’s fitting that it comes precisely halfway through this season, and it’s rather dizzying to watch while bearing in mind where all its main players (Buffy, Angel, Darla) will eventually end up. Heck, it’s even funny to consider that Cordelia is little more than a bit character here, given her later history with Angel.

Like Sean Austin said – it all starts here.

We begin in the Master’s underground lair, where some standard bad guy plotting is going on. He wants the Slayer dead, Darla is forbidden from interfering due to her personal interest in a certain someone who is close to Buffy, and the Anointed One says some generically evil stuff.

I was mildly interested to note that the Master calls him “Collin” (and he’s credited as this in the end credits) which once again makes me wonder what this kid’s life was like before he got vamped.

The Master decides to send a trio of warrior vampires known as the Three after Buffy, and they get a dramatic entrance with their game-faces already on, scattering a bunch of street thugs as they strut their stuff. Also, they wear armour. You’d think more vampires would think to wear armour. It instantly takes death-by-staking off the table.

Over at the Bronze, they’re celebrating the Fumigation Party, a supposedly annual event which (as far as I can recall) never occurs again during the entire run of the show. It’s so oddly specific and so utterly removed from any of this episode’s themes, that I have to believe one of the writers actually attended a real Fumigation Party at some point.

Buffy is moping about Angel and so decides to go home, only to run into the Three on the way. They attack her, and put up a surprisingly good fight (remember when vampires were an honest threat and not something that Buffy could dust without breaking her stride?) before Angel swoops to her rescue.

They make a break for the Summers’ house, and although Buffy does call out a quick “get in, c’mon” to Angel (I guess that constitutes an invitation) some hands of their pursuers manage to get past the frame in order to claw at the door and walls. As later episodes will demonstrate, the lack of an invitation will completely prevent any part of a vampire from crossing the threshold, almost like a force-field is in place.

So... continuity error. Though, I do like the theory I read years ago that the hands of the Three managed to breach the threshold because Angel had just passed through the door, and they briefly piggy-backed on the magic residue of his invitation. Or whatever, it’s not that big a deal.

The most important thing all this establishes is the invitation lore! A vampire has to be invited into a home before they can enter, though the nuances of this rule remain a bit iffy. For example, a building like a school or a mall can be breached since nobody actually lives there. But what constitutes a house, exactly? A place where you sleep? That you own? Where you keep your stuff? What if someone who doesn’t live in the house issues an invitation? Does that count? And how specific do you have to be in your wording? If a vampire asked: “can I come in?” and you said: “sure,” would that be enough to let them in?

Because I vaguely recall that vampires are able to breach dorm rooms when Buffy gets to college – or am I misremembering that?

Again, it doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things, but who is and is not invited into Buffy’s house is an important plot-point for this episode, so we’ll keep track.

Angel is wounded, which requires a shirtless scene, during which Buffy gets an eyeful of his back tattoo, something else that is rather nebulous in its application. I’m pretty sure we’ll see him shirtless again without the makeup artists having applied this particular detail to his back. The wiki tells me it’s a winged lion with the letter A beneath it, which is never stated in the show itself (I’d always assumed it was a bird of some kind) and never elaborated on again.

Honestly, we get the origin story of Jack’s tattoos on LOST, but not Angel’s? Was it there before or after he got vamped? Why a winged lion? What’s the story behind it? Unclear.

Their flirting is interrupted by the arrival of Joyce, who apparently didn’t notice any giant armoured vampires in her driveway. She doesn’t realize Angel is in the house until he deliberately steps forward to awkwardly make Buffy introduce him and – okay, I’ll say this for Spike: he handled Joyce better. I will give him that point.

Joyce goes upstairs and Buffy pulls the old “call goodbye out the door before smuggling the boy into your room” trick, though the pair of them should really be whispering once they’re in there. Pretty sure Joyce isn’t asleep yet, guys.

Buffy prods him for a little backstory as to why Angel does what he does, and he tells her that his family were all killed by vampires. For a second I wondered whether he was referring to his “family” of Darla, Drusilla and Spike (who were technically killed by vampires and currently lost to him) but it’s pretty clear by the end of the episode he’s talking about his human family. Which was comprised of... his father and a little sister? I’m surprised my memories are so fuzzy, but don’t tell me – I’ll find out all over again when we reach the flashbacks next season.

In any case Buffy accepts that it’s a vengeance thing (it’s not though) and the two of them have some cute banter when they settle down to sleep – Buffy in the bed and Angel on the floor.

The following day, Buffy is in the library, having told the rest of the team what went down the night before. (Sadly we don’t get to see how Angel handled waking up in a sunlit room. Did he just hide in the closet or under the bed or something? How’d he explain that?) Willow is melting, Xander is jealous, and Giles is unimpressed. He’s been researching all night and has identified the Three.

Another question: let’s say hypothetically that Buffy had managed to kill the Three the night before. Presumably Giles would have recorded this in his Watcher’s journal... but would he have contacted the Council so that they could update their records? I only ask because he shows Buffy a large tome with a picture of the Three inside it, which becomes obsolete by the end of the episode.

Because down in the underground church, the Master is having the Three staked by Darla for having failed him. This seems incredibly wasteful, since they were a formidable threat to Buffy during the one and only opportunity they got to confront her, and as far as I know, the Scoobies never actually find out what happened to them. For all they know for the rest of the show’s duration, they’re still out there somewhere.

(And yes I know that Giles tells the others that they’ll offer their lives to the Master as penance, but they never really know that for certain).

Which is why they actually shut down the library (complete with a keep out sign) so that Buffy can do some training. Plenty of Slayer training will go on in this library in the years to come, but I think this is the only time they take measures to actually keep people out while it’s happening.

Pedantic nitpick: Buffy is given a quarterstaff and makes a joke that she won’t be fighting Friar Tuck, even though it was Little John who is renowned for using that particular weapon. Sorry, I’m a Robin Hood fangirl, I can’t help it. This whole scene feels a bit like filler, though I suppose it’s to ensure that Buffy doesn’t get home until after dark and so avoid noticing that Angel can’t step out into direct sunlight. They’re gonna hang onto that reveal until the most dramatic possible moment.

Which is... the very next scene. Buffy gets home and Angel tells her he’s been hiding in her closet all day. There’s an awkward moment of misunderstanding when Buffy thinks he’s read her diary, which all plays out in a rather stilted manner... but then it leads into their first kiss, and I’d totally forgotten how good David Boreanaz and Sarah Michelle Gellar were at this.

Apparently, they’re too good at this, as Angel is so overcome that he vamps out. Buffy screams her head off, he dives through the open window, and Joyce rushes in to see what’s wrong. I have to admit, there was never a time in which I didn’t know that Angel was a vampire, so I never really got the full impact of this reveal.

Buffy tells Joyce she saw “a shadow” which is pretty weaksauce, but Joyce is still in her mostly-ditzy stage of characterization and accepts it.

At school the next day, Giles is delivering some important exposition on vampires: “A vampire isn't a person at all. It may have the movements, the memories, even the personality of the person it takes over, but it is a demon at the core. There's no halfway.”

This is important, because later on none of it will make any sense whatsoever when it comes to Spike.

Buffy is trying to rationalize the fact that Angel hasn’t tried to hurt her before last night, while elsewhere, Angel is also trying to grapple with this new development in their relationship. That’s Darla’s cue to break into his apartment and mess with his head.

As with the reveal that Angel is a vampire, the original audience back in the nineties would have had no idea of the history between these two characters (it probably hadn’t even been mapped out in the writers’ room yet) and so it’s amazing how much of their casual dialogue ends up matching what we’ll see in future flashbacks of their time together: kimonos, Budapest, an earthquake – all this is eventually dramatized.

And given the huge presence Darla will have in this show’s backstory (and in the spin-off) it’s almost hilarious that she dies in this, her second episode. Given the huge history and promise this character had, it’s not surprising they found a way to bring her back.

In any case, Darla’s goal is to try and bring Angel back to the fold, and taunt him over the fact that Buffy will never accept him for who he is. I’ve said it before, but I like that they deliberately make Buffy and Darla look physically similar (especially with the latter in a school uniform).

Giles has found information about Angel, also called Angelus (“the one with the angelic face”) in an old Watcher’s journal. I am immediately less interested in Angel’s backstory than in the implication that suggests Angel went up against a Slayer at one point. Unfortunately, this isn’t elaborated on, and we get the Spark Notes version of Angel’s history: two hundred and forty years old, originated in Ireland, cut a swathe of misery and bloodshed across Europe, then came to America about eighty years ago, where he shuns other vampires and lives alone.

The plot thickens.

Down in the Master’s lair, Darla is begging the Master for the chance to go up against the Slayer, and in doing so, bring Angel back into the fold. This is mostly expository dialogue, but it does reveal plenty about the characters involved – not only Darla’s manipulative streak (she plans to have Angel kill Buffy by sowing conflict between them) and that the Master really wants Angel back on his team.

We only get a few glimpses of the history between Angel and the Master throughout the show (I think it comes down to a single flashback on Angel) but I like that he sees him as an asset and not a threat. That he also has this line to Collin: “You see how we all work together for the common good? That's how a family is supposed to function,” and will later shed tears over Darla is a fascinating facet to his character: not only a deliberate wrinkle in Giles’s assertion that vampires are demons at the core (yet who apparently retain enough of their humanity to form and retain bonds with others) but also a deliberate comparison to the reveal that Angel killed his mortal family (though that said, the Master DID order the deaths of the Three, so it’s not a great family).

Willow and Buffy are studying in the library, but the talk soon turns to Angel. Unbeknownst to the girls, Darla is eavesdropping on their conversation and you can tell from the expression on her face that she’s pegged Buffy as a legitimate romantic threat. Willow is already poking holes in the impossibility of any future relationship, which Buffy tries to take on board given that staking Angel seems inevitable at this point.

Darla’s plan is certainly very fiendish: she goes to Buffy’s house, introduces herself to Joyce as a study buddy, and then gets herself invited inside. I’m pretty sure Darla didn’t account for Angel turning up at that precise moment (she probably just planned to drain Joyce and then hope Buffy would simply assume Angel was the culprit) but things work out incredibly well for her when he rushes inside to see her with a bloody, unconscious Joyce in her arms, who she then throws at him just as Buffy walks through the door.  This could not have been timed more perfectly.

Buffy gets an eyeful of Angel holding her half-dead mother, having unfortunately missed the part where he’s tempted and then refuses to drink her blood, and throws him out the house. Like, literally throws him through the front window onto the lawn. How she explains that to her mother later on is never explained.

But the next scene not only gives us our first look inside Sunnydale General Hospital but contains the first official meeting of Joyce and Giles! Joyce is a little bemused that Willow, Xander AND the school librarian have all turned up at her bedside, but we’ll blame her lack of serious questioning on the drugs.

Buffy grabs a crossbow, while Darla taunts Angel at his house about how the Slayer coming to kill him and will never accept his “true face,” to the point where he seemingly snaps and is ready for it to be “finished.” They don’t delve into the implications of this, and they don’t really explain what Angel is attempting to achieve at the Bronze, but it all seems to be hinting that Angel is ready to commit suicide-by-Slayer. The psychological seeds are sown for the events of “Amends.”

Giles is talking to a woozy Joyce, and her mention of Darla brings the truth to light – now the remaining Scoobies rush out to find Buffy and stop her from killing Angel. Somehow all parties spontaneously decide to converge on the Bronze (hey, it’s a pre-existing set, so it makes as much sense as anywhere else) and Buffy fights Angel to a stand-off. She can’t bring herself to kill him though, which is another fairly pertinent bit of foreshadowing.

Angel tries to goad her into it by revealing that he killed his entire family and enjoyed it... only for his self-preservation to kick in a little when he goes on to tell her about the curse: he fed on a gypsy girl, and her people took their revenge by cursing him with a soul. Now he has to live with the horror of what he inflicted on the world for nearly two hundred years.

Ah, that gypsy girl. I think we get a brief glimpse of her in a future flashback episode, but she has got to be the greatest example of Small Role, Big Impact of ALL TIME. I don’t think she even gets a name, and we never really learn anything about her or why Angel targeted her, yet she’s the reason half this show AND the spin-off exist at all.

He admits he didn’t attack Joyce, and the pair of them lower their weapons – only for Darla to appear, having brought guns to the crossbow fight. Darla manages to tell Buffy that she and Angel were involved for several generations and that she sired him (so much consistent backstory in this episode!) though it hardly matters: after some gunfighting and hiding behind pool tables and the Scoobies trying to create a distraction, Angel sneaks up behind Darla and stakes her in the back.

Again, if you’re watching this for the first time, you cannot grasp the weight of her shocked little: “Angel?” before she dissolves into dust. That he kills her is a much bigger deal than we – or Buffy – knew at the time, occurring well before the two shows delve into the depths of their past relationship. So kudos to Julie Benz for infusing her (first) death scene with so much pathos, without even knowing the full extent of her character’s history.

The final scene is the post-fumigation party at the Bronze, in which Buffy and Angel try to call things off between them, and end up kissing instead. It concludes with yet another iconic moment between them: as Buffy heads off, we can see that the cross around her neck has left a burn-mark on the skin. Classic those two.

Oh, and did I mention that the song playing over this scene includes the lyrics: “and I remember [you]?” What a song choice, three whole seasons before the episode “I Will Remember You”!

This is the episode in which everyone sat up straighter and thought – wow, this is a great show. In figuring out Angel’s character, the writers also figure out an important component to the show’s mythos and its subsequent themes: the pain of love, the cost of fighting the good fight, the idea that the distinctions between good and evil aren’t that simple, and of course – making amends. Allying himself with Buffy is the start of Angel’s redemption quest.

The concept of “a vampire with a soul” is perhaps the centrepiece of this entire franchise, one that blurs the line between good and evil, and defines so much of these characters’ lives (even the ones that are only peripherally involved at this point, like Cordelia). And we haven’t even gotten to the all-important happiness clause yet!

Throw in some pondering over what exactly a vampire is and what they’re capable of experiencing in the emotional sense, and you’ve got an instant classic Buffy episode. One the one hand, Angel was an unrepentant killer who destroyed hundreds of innocent lives. On the other, a monstrous creature like the Master can refer to his minions as “family” and shed tears over Darla’s death. Likewise, Darla clearly had feelings for Angel and was shocked that he would kill her, while Angel doesn’t look remotely pleased or triumphant about doing the deed.

Shit is complicated.

There’s going to be plenty more exploration of this grey area when it comes to vampires and what they’re capable of feeling in future episodes, and the amount of setup “Angel” does in regards to this particular strand of the show’s mythology is pretty impressive.

Miscellaneous Observations:

Watching this episode, the thing that stuck out the most was that all the Narrative Filigree the script sprinkles throughout the story remains consistent throughout the show – the Master’s feelings on Angelus, Angel’s comment that he last saw Darla in a kimono, that they spent time together in Budapest, that Angel killed his family, that Darla was the one to bring him the gypsy girl – this all gets picked up again in later episodes and elaborated on.

They obviously didn’t know the finer details at this point, but a lesser show would have retconned half these comments.

This episode was written by David Greenwalt, but Joss Whedon clearly liked the mysterious comment regarding what Angel and Darla got up to in Budapest so much that he borrowed it for a similar Noodle Incident comment between Black Widow and Hawkeye in The Avengers.

On my DVD set at least, we get our first “previously on” and it’s still narrated by some random guy instead of Giles.

Cordelia only gets two scenes this episode (one of which involves Xander slut-shaming her, urgh) which is kind of funny, as in four or so years, she’s going to be neck-deep in this Angel/Darla drama.

Buffy refers to the Three as “the Fang Gang,” which is also funny as this ends up being the Fan Nickname for Angel’s circle of allies in L.A.

Interesting that both Darla and the Master refer to Angel as “Angel” and not “Angelus.” Obviously this was because the writers had not yet decided to use these names to denote the different parts of his dual-personality (that doesn't start until season four of Angel, as even in season two of Buffy, the Scoobies keep calling him Angel after his reversion) but it’s still an interesting choice for them.

In hindsight, it’s a little creepy to watch Buffy try and figure out why Angel was helpful towards her even though he was a vampire the whole time. These sort of mind games are precisely Angelus’s M.O., she just doesn’t know it yet.

In time, Darla’s comment that Buffy will reject Angel’s “true face” will be proved incorrect, but we’ll get there...

It’s a bit surprising that Giles takes Angel’s true identity in his stride the way he does – not just that he’s a vampire, but that he’s a good vampire. This is a guy that’s presumably been raised since childhood on the fact that vampires are bad and need to be killed... yet acts quickly the moment he realizes it was Darla and not Angel who attacked Joyce in order to stop Buffy from killing him. It’s unclear how exactly he views Angel at this point – valuable asset, perhaps?

It's also unclear where Angel is living at this point, though it seems to be some sort of basement apartment. Wherever it is, it’s certainly not the mansion that he’s ensconced in by season three.

Reading the shooting script, there are a lot of scenes that got cut – some pretty inconsequential (like Xander asking Giles why it’s called “tweed” at the hospital) but some that I wish had been kept in, like Joyce and Buffy talking about Angel at the dinner table (if not simply because Joyce mentions an “Aunt Lolly” who I like to assume was Celia’s mother, but we also get a little context to Joyce’s relationship with Hank) and one that shows Joyce at home after her stint in the hospital, with Buffy trying to get her to eat some vegetables. It was cute, and a necessary wrap-up to Joyce’s injuries.

I’ve often thought about the potential strangeness of Angel’s brooding guilt over what he did as Angelus, as according to the show’s own mythology, becoming a vampire is akin to being brainwashed or possessed. The human is dead, the demon is in charge, and an individual is simply not what they were as a human. You can’t technically blame someone for what they do if their soul or free will or brain chemicals have been messed with (especially if it’s done without their permission).

And yet, it’s more complicated than that. You cannot deny that something of the human self remains when an individual comes back as a vampire, or insist that someone like Harmony could ever come back as an Angelus. Even as a demon, she’s not capable of that kind of depravity. Nobody but the mortal who was once Liam could have become the vampire known as Angelus – that cruelty and sadism was always a part of him; that potential was always there.

Heck, it kind of reminds me of how red kryptonite takes away Clark’s inhibitions. He’s not acting how he usually would, but it’s still technically him. (Speaking of, Smallville’s idea of having Lana wear a kryptonite necklace so that Clark can’t get near her kind of reminds me of the cross burning into Angel’s chest after Buffy kisses him). As such, Angel feels that burden of guilt despite the argument that it wasn’t really “him”... because a part of Angelus was him – and of course, he remembers all of it.

Best Line: Buffy: “Do you snore?” Angel: “I don't know, it's been a long time since anyone was in a position to let me know.” It’s cheesy but it’s cute.

Worst Line: Not trusting the audience to get the fact that Joyce explicitly said “come in,” we also have to hear Darla tell her: “it's very nice of you for inviting me into your home.” Yes show, the vampire has been invited in – we GET IT.

Best Shot: Together but apart, thinking about all the sex they're not having:

Best Scene: As mentioned, I do love Darla’s shocked little “Angel?” when she realizes he’s staked her, especially as it’s given added depth and poignancy in later seasons, after we’re able to grasp the full extent of their relationship. Angel killing her is a Big Deal, but we don’t have the context to fully realize it yet.

Best Subversion: It’s subtle, but any other show would have had the Master specifically forbid Darla from going after Angel (only for her to flout his orders and get killed as a result) but here she operates under his express permission. His comment at the end, about how Angel was meant to sit at his right hand, makes me disappointed that the show never really delved further into their relationship (technically, he is Angel’s grand-sire!)

Most Random Scene: Still trying to wrap my head around the Bronze Fumigation Party, in which you get a free drink if you catch a cockroach. Is it meant to symbolize that the cockroaches who survive it are stronger for having gone through the ordeal? Or something? I’m just trying to make it fit!

Death Toll: A vampire called Zachary, killed off-screen by Buffy so I won’t count him. The Three, staked by Darla. Darla, staked by Angel.

Grand Total: Twelve civilians, twelve villains.

[miraculouscontent]

It’s heeeeere! Another summasalt, this time with nearly twice the length of the first one!

(Turns out that not having caffeine doesn’t help me talk any slower.)

Script below:

Anonymous asked:

Thoughts on Rocketear?

Can you Rocketear the newest episode apart with your salt, my beloved Salt Queen?

Penny for your thoughts on Rocketear?

Aw, anon! You can have that for free! I'm a generous goddess.

"Rocketear" begins with Chat Noir and Carapace - just Carapace, really - holding back a pack of what I presume to be the physical manifestation of the writing staff's age, or at least a representation of how behind the times the writing seems.

Just as the dinosaurs break through Shellter. Ladybug shows up with the scientist who revived the dinosaurs in the first place and said scientist uses a whistle to calm the dinosaurs down. There's also a line from Bob Roth about putting the dinosaurs in a theme park to make money and I know what it's referencing but it's so incredibly random that it doesn't really come off as a proper joke.

Carapace was notably sad right after battle, but insisted that he was fine when Ladybug asked. Rena, sporting a... - I would like to say "new design" but it's a recolor in every sense of the word - is hiding behind part of a building and smiles after the heroes before walking off. Ladybug takes Nino's miraculous back but sees that he's still upset and asks him again what's wrong. Nino asks where Alya was and Ladybug claims that she only needed Carapace for the job, which cheers him up but only until Ladybug is already gone.

Mm, I guess Nino and Adrien relate in heroism not being enough for them unless they have their respective love interest to flirt with.

Also, I know this is an obvious set-up, but the show can't tell me that Ladybug just always brought Nino and Alya whenever she needed one of them. Season 3 required her to go to Master Fu to get the miraculouses, and unless she already knew that Nino and Alya would be in the same location - which, okay, the show does basically shove the two of them together whenever Nino is onscreen, fair, if two characters are in a relationship in this show then it's weird for them to NOT be with that person - but it just seems like a gamble, not to mention proof to Shadow Moth that the two are close if Ladybug constantly brings both of them.

Anyway, Ladybug goes into the sewer and asks Rena if she's seen any sign of Shadow Moth or his traps. Rena didn't see anything and they de-transform. Marinette is about to leave when she thinks of something, but Alya assumes it's about her new look, which was apparently not voluntary on her part and the suit automatically adapted to Alya's new role as Rena Furtive, which she has now named it as.

Marinette reminds her that this is supposed to be a secret and that they agreed that the fox has no owner. When Alya is evasive about whether she told Nino that she won't be Rena anymore, Marinette stresses that everyone needs to believe that Alya won't be using a miraculous anymore so that she can remain an undercover spy.

What's the point in changing the look if you're not going to show yourself anyway? I mean, insurance, I guess, but still.

Alya, exasperated, parrots what Marinette has apparently told her before: that she helps Ladybug with Mirage in case Shadow Moth tries to follow her so Rena can follow him instead. Marinette stresses the situation again and Alya tries to get Marinette to agree on her telling Nino that she's Rena Furtive, but Marinette refuses.

At Marinette's house, Alya talks further and explains that she doesn't know if she can lie to Nino since they don't keep any secrets--Alya, babe, you kept Rena Rouge from him and didn't tell him that you knew he was Carapace until Ladybug was forced to give you your miraculouses at the same time. I don't wanna hear it.

Marinette states that it's too late for that and also not technically a lie, but Alya gets upset and says that Nino will never trust her again if he finds out that she kept something from him. Marinette brings up how she had to keep secrets from Alya too, but they're interrupted by Tom appearing and wanting to play games with them. Marinette makes an excuse about homework that she's repeated many times, as Tom comments that the teachers give her too much. After Tom is kicked out - hang on, lemme just... - Marinette uses the moment to show Alya that she's lied to her family a lot and hasn't played games with her father in months. She states that there's no other option as they have to protect their identities, and Alya agrees to talk to Nino.

In Alya's room - I just presume at this point that Nino's house doesn't exist and Chris is an illusion - Alya tells Nino that they need to talk, but stammers and states that it's hard to talk about. Nino thinks that she wants to break up with him, but Alya assures that she loves him. She finally gets to the cover story that Rena herself made up in "Sentibubbler" and Nino understands, sad that she won't be around anymore but agreeing if it's what Ladybug thinks is best.

Is it weird that Nino respects Ladybug's wishes more than Alya does?

Nino hugs her and is confused by why Alya was nervous to tell him, as she can tell him anything and nothing will change their relationship. Alya feels guilty and hugs back, murmuring about how they don't have any secrets; that's not what Nino said, but sure, push this plot to its already predictable conclusion. I mean, I thought it was vaguely sweet that Nino switched to seriousness immediately when Alya said that she wanted to talk, but how am I supposed to be invested in this couple when their dynamic boils down to "STRONG, INDEPENDANT WOMAN who wears the pants in the relationship because her boyfriend is portrayed as a wimpy coward"? Like, the show constantly dragged Nino down to make Alya look "powerful" by comparison, and then when it comes to characters like Marinette, we get a girl who works very well outside of her relationship with her endgame love interest.

It's the fakest form of "girl power," dragging guys down to raise girls up or actually making a strong girl character but having her love interest be a weakness that creates flaws in her that weren't there originally and having that love interest be who she's "destined for."

I'm rambling, sorry.

In class, Marinette assures Alya that she did the right thing and Alya agrees. As they're leaving school, Marinette talks about how their "night walks" start soon, and Alya non-subtly talks about how Rena Furtive will be on the lookout while Ladybug and Chat Noir patrol. She stops, however, as gets excited about some pictures she took of herself as Rena Furtive, which has a lot of details that Marinette hasn't seen. I don't know whether to groan at what I just heard or remind everyone that Rena Furtive is literally just a recolor and therefore this is the writers patting themselves on the back for this design, so let's just move on.

Alya then shows Marinette her phone--AUGH, MY EYES--and suggests making a poll on her Ladyblog so people can vote for their favorite Rena design. Marinette has to stress again that Rena Furtive is supposed to be a spy and thus invisible, which Alya admits that she forgot about.

Okay, I've been holding off on talking about this, but now seems like the best time to bring it up. Alya has been a trash friend as well as a trash confidant, and her role as Rena Rouge boiled down to, "it was convenient for her to be the fox at the time it was needed." She's not particularly stealthy like one would expect of a fox, and she was easily one of the worst candidates to be told Marinette's big secret. I'll get more into this later, but I have to stress that Alya has treated Marinette no differently since learning of Marinette's identity and has already gone against Marinette's orders once before at the time of this episode airing. Episodes are constantly torn between validating their decision to have Marinette tell Alya, having Marinette be worried about the decision while the show considers her to be ridiculous for it, and then having Alya either consider or make choices that clearly don't gel well with what's good for her role. Much like Marinette, she lacks a sense of self-control and--wow, a female character who's impulsive, never seen that stereotype before.

Point being, "Sentibubbler" stressed over and over that Alya was the right choice and deserved to be both the permanent fox and the understudy for guardian, but then we have "Rocketear" here where Alya is making basic emotionally-driven errors that I'm not even remotely sympathetic to when Marinette has gone through so much worse over the course of three+ seasons.

*sigh*

Alya laments that it's hard to find new content for the Ladyblog - ah, yes, tell me more about your struggles, Alya - but figures that at least she can post stuff about Chat Noir instead of--I don't know--making fake Ladybug theories to lead people off Marinette's trail. Marinette says that it's a great idea, though Alya still doesn't look too happy. The scene then rewinds to a little bit to show a different point of view, this time with Adrien and Nino. Wait, this feels familiar, wasn't there another episode that did something like--ohhhh no, this is going to hurt.

After saying good-bye to Adrien - something I wish I could do every time he's mentioned or on-screen - Nino catches the bit of conversation where Alya talks about the Ladyblog. Nino talks as if Marinette isn't there and asks Alya out to the movies because Marinette is chopped liver and this is about Alya and how sad she is, guys.

Wow, she's turning into Adrien faster and faster.

Alya hesitates, but Marinette assures her that there's still time. Alya excitedly runs off with Nino and they watch what I presume are previews given the narrator, featuring recycled footage from the Ladybug PV. Nino is upset because Rena is mentioned but not Carapace, and the preview features Rena telling Chat Noir to forget Ladybug because it's Chat and Rena herself who are trulu made for each other.

I don't know what's funnier; the complete lack of self-awareness or the suggestion that a biracial couple would exist in this show outside of a special that gives them maybe a minute of screentime and acts more like suggestive canon anyway. I think I might've been too generous with that line about dinosaurs.

Nino is offended by the preview and Alya brushes off his comments, stating that it's just a cartoon and it's made to entertain people, though Nino himself is certainly not entertained. Can't say I entirely blame him considering that Alya doesn't really try to say anything substantial or even agree with him. No cuddling or reassuring kisses, she just gets slightly sad and turns to her phone for a bit.

After the movie, Nino is cheered back up again until he catches Alya on her phone once more. He offers to take her home, but she's distracted, and he comments that what she showed to Marinette looked pretty nice; I don't know because they didn't show it. Nino asks what it was and Alya evades the question, stating that her battery is running out. Nino is suspicious, but spots Andre's ice cream cart and the two head over there. Andre calls them his favorite couple and asks what they want, but Alya sees Ladybug gesturing for her and has to run off, giving Nino a cheek kiss as she goes which feels like too little too late at this point.

Nino catches some conveniently-placed kids arguing over who Chat Noir loves, but they settle on the fact that girls in general love Chat Noir. Nino is then seen at the Seine watching the Ladyblog's latest video, where Alya is talking up how amazing Chat Noir is. I hate to stop every five seconds to complain - okay, actually I don't - but I presume this video must've been made after the movie since Nino seems like the type who would actively follow his girlfriend's blog, yet not only is this video perfectly set up to echo the kids and the movie preview, but Alya - despite apparently caring about her boyfriend soooo much that she kept trying to convince Marinette to bend the rules - didn't even try to warn Nino or text him so he doesn't take it too seriously. It's like "Sentibubbler" with the conflicting messages about identity rules; Alya cares about her boyfriend but both isn't thinking about how he'll take the things she says and apparently doesn't know him well enough to realize that he wouldn't be mad over her keeping a secret that she was told to keep. I already talked about how they play up Nino to be the emotionally weaker one of the relationship, but then they don't have Alya try to cover or make up for that. She's been acting very much not like Alya - you know, the one who in "Sapotis" practically bragged about how great she'd be at covering for Ladybug - with her stutters and weak excuses, so I can't completely blame Nino for being upset after everything that's happened when he sees the writers projecting onto Alya as she talks about how Chat Noir is brave and funny and cute and showing all these images of him as well. I don't agree with all of his actions, but--oh yeah, speaking of which--

Nino calls Adrien and is talking to him about how Alya must be in love with someone else. Adrien dismisses the idea, as Alya and Nino are together basically all the time, and asks who she could possibly be in love with. When Nino suggests that it's Chat Noir, Adrien laughs and jokes about it being Fang instead. Nino points out the video but Adrien did see it but is overall unphased and convinced that it means nothing. Nino says that he'll find proof and hangs up, but Adrien is certain he'll find nothing. Plagg comments that Nino will find someone because Plagg's charisma has definitely contaminated Adrien.

Ugh.

Adrien expresses concern that he put on the cat's charm too much and accidentally made Alya fall for him, and decides to visit Alya as Chat Noir to be sure.

Meanwhile, we get a reference to film noirs as Nino narrates. That's the second blatant reference this episode and now I feel like they wrote this script while doing a movie marathon.

Chat Noir arrives at Alya's house and Trixx hides before Alya opens the curtains to reveal her surprise guest. Nino is nearby watching the scene with his phone as Alya wonders aloud if something's wrong. Chat assures that everything's fine, but brings up the video she posted. He insists that it made him happy, but points out that she's been following him and Ladybug since the beginning and that they know each other much better due to everything that's happened. He has some conveniently-worded dialog as he starts to say that he hopes something's just an illusion and Alya gets worried that he's about to bring up Rena. Chat continues and clarifies that he wonders if she started to feel something for him, though adds that he understands because just look at him.

UGGGGH.

Chat clarifies by making a heart with his hands, which Nino sees. Alya laughs at this gesture and states that she has a boyfriend, doing the same heart gesture and suggesting that her love for Nino is even more than that. Chat Noir apologizes - hm, I didn't know he had the capacity to do that - and hugs Alya, saying that he was just confused.

An absolutely unnecessary hug for two people who, at least in terms of their current selves, have had very little screentime together, but this is also the show where making eye contact basically means your friends and it's all just to push the plot along so Nino inteprets that Alya is in love with Chat Noir, so whatever I guess.

Alya states that Nino is far more irresistable than Chat, then adds that she doesn't even know his secret identity, and she'd never fall in love with someone she doesn't know. Nino then runs away upset and the scene cuts away to the next day where--

Wait, wait, wait, hang on a second. Two things right off the bat there.

First off, we're just gonna sidle past that "wouldn't fall in love with someone you don't know the identity of" while ignoring the existence of the love square? Not even Chat thinking about how he doesn't know Ladybug's identity and trying to excuse that he doesn't have to? This guy is that certain of their relationship?

Secondly, Nino is practically sobbing and Shadow Moth doesn't take this as his opportunity? Same guy who akumatized Mr. Pigeon 72 times and has akumatized Gigantitan more than once? What is this pacing???

But--alright, so Adrien comes into school and sees Nino, still dressed up in his detective gear, which gets ignored completely as Adrien goes to tell him about Chat Noir and Alya. Because the show doesn't know how Adrien would convey this within reason, Nino interrupts him, taking him down into the lower part of the school where he has a desk and chairs set up. Adrien goes to ask when Nino had time to do this, but Nino slams his hand on the desk to cut him off. Nino presents the evidence he took and they go back and forth, likewise with Adrien turning off the background music while Nino turns it back on. Adrien insists that it's a misunderstanding, but pleads innocent when Nino asks how he knows. Adrien states that Alya is just a superhero fan and that she and Chat Noir have nothing in common.

Again, the complete lack of self-awareness is astonishing.

Adrien repeats what Alya said about secret identities and how she wouldn't fall for someone she doesn't know - they're really ignoring this, aren't they? - and continues hitting Nino's soft spots about how unlikely it is until Nino decides to tell Adrien something he's not supposed to.

He tells Adrien, not only that Alya is Rena Rouge, but that he's Carapace. Adrien goes through a range of emotions beyond sAD for once, shocked at the fact that they know each other's identities. Nino states that they don't keep secrets from each other, except now Alya is with Chat Noir. Adrien still doesn't understand and brings up how secret identities have to be protected, or else Nino wouldn't have told him because Ladybug wouldn't agree to it.

Oh, here we go. So that's why they waited.

Nino states that it was Ladybug herself who gave them their miraculouses at the same time; not giving the reason why, of course, nor pointing out that they're temporary heroes so there's understandably some leeway. Adrien is having a moment, but manages to bring the subject back to Alya and Chat Noir, who he still doesn't think are a thing. Nino argues that it's because Adrien doesn't know Chat Noir, but he does because he's Carapace and knows how Chat Noir acts. He says that it's all flowers and confessions when Ladybug appears, but he gets rejected because Ladybug thinks that he's annoying, and she's right. He adds that Chat flirts with Rena Rouge and that's all that needs to happen, with Chat stepping in on the first mission Carapace lost in. Nino laments the loss of the love of his life and wishes to shut Chat Noir up forever; we all do, Nino, we all do. Shadow Moth finally steps in with - oh, less than eight minutes left in the episode, yikes - and Nino is akumatized into Rocketear.

Rocketear rejects Adrien's pleas to stop, insisting that Chat Noir is who he's after, not Adrien, and Adrien transforms in sad fashion despite Plagg's reminder of who Rocketear is after. Alya, meanwhile, is in the art club with Marinette - wait, since when was Alya in the art club - telling Marinette about how Chat Noir thought she was into him due to the video, which Marinette groans at. There's an earthquake and they peek outside to see Rocketear firing his tears at Chat Noir, shouting that he stole Alya from him. Chat Noir tries to tell him otherwise, but Rocketear won't listen.

Alya groans at Nino doing this, then she and Marinette set off to find a place to transform. They conveniently go to the same place Adrien and Nino were, so they see the desk that Nino had set up.

Genuine question, how seriously does this episode want me to take itself, because now when I recount all the unnecessary love square drama in my head - because you know that's where this is going - I'm going to have to think, "Nino, dressed in a detective outfit, ripped off his fake mustache and told Adrien both his and Rena's identities, and also that Ladybug was totally cool with it and thinks that Chat Noir is annoying."

Gettin' two completely different vibes here. The episode clearly wants to be important but it doesn't take itself seriously either, which it totally could while including enough jokes to keep things light. Instead, I'm just left scratching my head and wondering what tone they're going for.

Marinette finds Nino's phone on the desk - I'm calling continuity error on that one because he at no point put it on the desk, at least not on-screen - and she questions Alya on the video she sees. Alya insists that nothing happened, apparently completely unphased by her boyfriend having spied on her, and says that he wouldn't have misunderstood if he'd heard the actual conversation.

The two transform and Ladybug immediately uses Lucky Charm, receiving a projector. Ladybug is clueless and Rena Furtive suggests creating an imaginary movie like Nino. Ladybug gets an idea, remembering Alya's earlier comments, and Rena confirms that she remembers every word of it.

Aaaaand, just like that, all of the tension has been completely sucked away. You know, "Backwarder" was a trash episode, but at least when Ladybug was showing every step of her plan, she didn't tell us what it was.

Meanwhile, Rocketear and Chat Noir are still arguing--I started zoning out at hearing the same thing over and over again at this point, so I just presume they were fighting over who does stuff behind their love interest's backs better; I don't think they came to an agreement but they're both losers anyway.

Chat Noir says that he'll prove his innocence, tossing his baton aside to show him giving up, but Rocketear points out that it proves nothing and strikes Chat Noir with his tears.

Our endgame love interest, everyone. Straight As yet about as smart as a sack of bricks, and that at least won't flirt with anyone non-consensually.

Chat Noir makes a point that he doesn't want to hurt Rocketear, and Shadow Moth tells Rocketear to take his miraculous before finishing him. Chat Noir can only weakly tell him not to before Ladybug snags Rocketear's wrist and diverts the shot. Ladybug explains to Rocketear about the projector and how it'll let him hear the audio of the recording he took. She adds that she doesn't know what Chat said, but she trusts him.

Marinette, I'm sorry, I feel so bad for you.

Ladybug turns on the projector and Rocketear relaxes at actually hearing what was going on. Rena then de-transforms and hurries out to meet with Rocketear, hugging him as Rocketear apologizes for doubting her. Alya also kinda sorta apologizes in a way I don't understand and Rocketear then breaks his akumatization, very casually, all on his own.

Yeah, just--casually, in a matter of seconds in fact. You know, it's really sad when people resisting akumatizations are more tense and emotionally compelling than them breaking them. This is twice in one season now and has zero impact considering that Nino's reason for being akumatized was already taken care of so he had no reason to stay akumatized anyway. Him breaking his own object to release the akuma would've at least been different, but instead it's just a repeat of what Alya went through with even less tension considering that Alya's wasn't even that good in the first place, relying on her relationship to Ladybug rather than who she knew to be her best friend.

Moving on, Ladybug captures the akuma and uses Miraculous Ladybug to bring everything back to normal. Shadow Moth monologues about how love and secrets don't go well together and he's sure that she has a lot and I'll talk about this later.

Ladybug hands over the magical charm, which Nino takes but insists that he won't need it, as he'll never let Shadow Moth use his love to manipulate him again. Plenty of other things to get akumatized over, but they gave the supposedly ace character a robot to help him stick out and also gave the supposedly aro character a miraculous back in season one to give her more importance. If characters aren't in love then they need something to ceompensate for it.

Nino apologizes to Chat Noir for being wrong and Chat Noir assures him that everyone has doubts, even him. He gets sad and Ladybug asks him what's wrong, but he insists that he's fine - officially throwing away his right to be upset at her later as far as I'm concerned - and they do their usual fist buuuuu--

...Really?

Everyone then splits up and Chat Noir sulks by himself instead of--you know, talking to Ladybug, or asking her anything, or making any sort of excuse for her because that would mean he actually has faith in her and understands that their partnership is different from temporary heroes, even if the excuse was as basic as her wanting to protect him more than the others because he would be that egotistical if they didn't want to stretch out this unnecessary drama.

Later on, Adrien is staring at a picture on the Ladyblog that might be a metaphor for the show considering how "in the foreground" Chat Noir and Rena are.

Adrien vents about Ladybug giving miraculouses to Alya and Nino, but Plagg states that she's the guardian. Adrien clarifies that he's referring to Alya and Nino knowing each other's identities, but Plagg doesn't see the issue. Adrien gets huffy and asks why the rule exists for LadyNoir but not Ninya, but Plagg again points out that she's the guardian, so she makes the rules, though obviously he uses cheese metaphors to convey it.

Okay, Plagg is only, like--half-right because he doesn't have all the information. If you don't mind me rambling for a bit, I'm on the fence here because, on one hand--yes, I agree that Marinette should be allowed to make her own rules, and I often do that in my writing because I think she should be permitted leeway in order to let herself be happy, but on the other hand, it's not technically her rule, as she had to let Alya and Nino in on their identities back in the Season 2 finale, so Fu was still around for a season. She wasn't even guardian yet!

Now, presumably so the fandom could blame Marinette if anything happened, Marinette never discussed this with Fu on-screen, so I can't say whether or not Fu knew, but I feel like he must've since Marinette had to have told him the heroes' identities off-screen, given "Party Crasher," and thus I imagine that Marinette would tell Fu everything that happened, which is consistent with what she does on-screen even if she'd keep things from him for a little while.

"Furious Fu" had also established that not even Master Fu followed rules completely, meaning that Marinette is in this awkward spot of mostly following what Fu taught her, which aren't all guardian rules anyway, and having to break the rules on occasion for various purposes. I can't say what Fu approved of and what he didn't, because episodes spend so much time on the love square that they forget about Marinette as a person and how she interacts with everyone else. From an emotional standpoint, I can't blame Marinette for not revoking the miraculouses of people whose identities get discovered because of her, as I imagine she feels guilty and it probably doesn't seem fair to force them into another miraculous or have them be entirely without one because of a mistake that she made, meaning that someone needs to be throwing a lot of red flags for Marinette to be through with them.

Though obviously, from the show's standpoint, it's just an excuse to not make new models, but I complained about that enough in "Sentibubbler" and this episode even went out of its way to design a detective model for Nino while spraypainting Alya's bodysuit in the same breath, so this is the world we live in.

Anyway, Marinette is essentially in this position where she still has Fu's rules hovering over her, but she's also trying to step out on her own and make her own decisions to varying degrees of success or failure depending on your point of view. Tikki--wait, no, bad idea--Su-Han then, could easily give input on these things, perhaps with Marinette discussing a modern day set of rules for someone her age and going back and forth with Su-Han on what the right choices to make are, finding something that's comfortable but within a realm of predictable control. Su-Han was okay with some rules being broken after seeing how Ladybug handled them and they could've easily made this episode about that instead, but instead, we get rules being set and then being broken on a writer's whim.

Which now brings us to the end of the episode, where Marinette is on the phone with Alya and apologizes for causing trouble between her and Nino. Alya tells her not to worry and she'll fix things - you know, those things that, to Marinette's knowledge, have already been fixed - and asks if Marinette trusts her. Marinette does, and Alya hangs up in order to face Nino.

Yeah, that feeling of dread in your stomach? That means you know how predictable the writing is and what's about to happen, good for you.

Alya explains that she has to tell Nino something and he's worried, this time trying to sheepishly break the tension. She explains that she's still Rena Rouge, much to Nino's shock, and adds that she's in hiding, which is why Ladybug didn't want her to tell anyone. Nino asks why she's telling him if she's not supposed to tell anyone - proving my point from a while back that he wouldn't have been upset had she kept it a secret - then asks if Ladybug agreed with it.

I want to give him a pat on the back for considering Ladybug, but he didn't even tell her when he had the chance that Adrien knows his identity now, so I'm just beaten down at this point.

Instead of answering the question directly, Alya says that she can't hide her identity from him because she loves him and they don't have secrets.

You know, like Nino telling Adrien about Rena's identity, or Alya saying specifically that she's a permanent holder, which I'm sure both of them will confess to since they said that they don't have--aaaaand the episode ends on happy triumphant music, okay.

I mean, I guess Alya at least didn't tell him that Marinette was Ladybug, but that is such a low bar and not even remotely worthy of congratulations when Alya told Nino the specific thing that Marinette told Alya not to tell; the thing that they had agreed on.

Nino wasn't upset anymore. He won't be getting akumatized either. Alya endured the supposed hardship of being a permanent fox holder for four episodes before breaking down and telling her boyfriend. Even her excuse doesn't hold any water because, again, they're both still technically keeping a secret, particularly Alya who knows Marinette's identity as Ladybug. The episode also apparently forgets that Alya and Marinette's friendship must not be as strong by her logic of telling Nino specifically everything, as Alya kept Rena Rouge a secret from Marinette for all of Season 3, but tells Nino about continuing to be Rena Rouge in Season 4. Boyfriends before BFFs without explicitly saying it, or to be more specific, whatever screws Marinette over the most, because that's what this comes down to, made worse by "Optigami" where Marinette told Alya that she'd tell her everything and I guess that doesn't go both ways.

"Sentibubbler" had Alya stress that no one would ever know. She promised Marinette and told Marinette to trust her, and the episode spent its entire running time talking her up and assuring Marinette that she was the right choice, even considering Marinette ridiculous for worrying when Alya had done something without Marinette's permission the episode right before it. Then, three episodes after "Sentibubbler," when Marinette is finally comfortable and trusts Alya completely, Alya betrays that trust. Nino betrayed that trust, knowing he wasn't supposed to do so but telling Adrien his and Rena's identity anyway, because he was losing an argument and needed to PROVE something.

Marinette gives them an inch and they take a mile. Marinette bent the rules so that they could continue to have the miraculous they'd started with and they disrespected her because it was hard for like a day.

And if this bites them back, it won't reflect poorly on them, it'll reflect poorly on Marinette.

It's not like Alya just overrode Marinette. She didn't go, "Hey, I'm telling Nino, I'm sorry," or tried her hardest to go back and forth with Marinette until they both agreed. No, she did what she told Marinette she wouldn't do without saying a word to her, because LOVE and SEEEECRETS.

And this only applies to her, of course, because don't think I didn't notice the parallels between this episode and "Truth," because WOW.

Episode begins with Marinette hoping for something and it blows up in her face? A date at the cinema that ends on a sour note? Plot-centric couple trying to get Andre's ice cream and the female with a secret needing to leave in a hurry? Boyfriend character getting akumatized over their girlfriend's secret? Boyfriend assumes/suggests that the girlfriend's secret involves Aaaaaadrien - or his alter-ego in "Rocketear"'s case - and the episode hints as much to him even though he's completely wrong? Akuma's colors are blue and black? THE BRIDGE?

But, ahhh, little difference, here and there, y'know, like how Marinette was forced to break up with her boyfriend while Alya got to keep hers, and Nino got to have long talks with Alya while Luka got little to nothing with Marinette.

Because do note that Alya, while trying to convince Marinette and talk to Nino about not keeping secrets, at no point suggests that Marinette deserves to be happy and deserves to have a boyfriend and that Marinette should be allowed to tell Luka her secret so they can get back together, so you have Alya here selfishly prioritizing her relationship with Nino while making no comment about Marinette's relationship, essentially asking Marinette to allow her what Marinette herself didn't have the luxury of, and Alya knows this because Marinette told her. It is both incredibly insensitive of Alya and incredibly insulting of the show to make so many parallels between this episode and "Truth" just to have everything crash down for Marinette because she's Marinette while everything goes well for Alya and Nino because they're not Marinette.

We've talked before about the formulas that are literally baked into the show, and one of those is how Marinette makes a mistake in every episode and has to learn from it. What that mistake is in this episode, I don't know, but considering that she apologizes for Alya and Nino's problems, I guess the show blames her for what they themselves had taught her.

Point being, there's a clear karma system in place, but it only applies to Marinette, and forcing her to mess up in every episode means that she is literally not allowed to be with Luka because had she been able to clear things up between them, he would've eagerly accepted her and they could've been happy. It'd be too difficult for her to mess up when Luka doesn't put mountains of pressure and expectations on her like everyone else. Factor that in with how she can be herself around him and it leads to situation that are too difficult for her to screw up in because her mistakes - more often than not - center around Adrien or her role as guardian.

And because another rule in the show is to bring up Adrien so they don't "lose him for too long," she can't avoid bringing him up either. If he's not in the plot, he has to be mentioned, leaving Marinette in a lose-lose situation that she'll never be free from.

So, let me just get this straight then:

The guy who spied on his girlfriend instead of talking to her about his assumptions gets to keep his girlfriend, not because he realized it was wrong regardless of whether he was correct or not, but because the situation had been cleared up for him, yet the guy who actively resisted his akumatization, saddened by his girlfriend's secrets but wanting her to share them when she was ready, gets broken up with and tossed to the wayside because he's not a rich blond boy who got a miraculous because he happened to be within the twenty meters of space where Fu was searching for new holders?

Meanwhile, the girlfriend who has gone against the wishes and insistence of her best friend - guardian of the miraculouses, by the way, so she calls the shots, something that Alya herself said in "Optigami" BEFORE GOING ON TO DO HER OWN THING IN THE SAME EPISODE AND BEING REWARDED FOR IT - is allowed to go against the wishes and insistence of her best friend again for the sake of "all love, no secrets" with her boyfriend and so she can have the happy ending she wants, yet the girl who was chosen for a miraculous without her consent, forced to screw up and talk about a random boy who doesn't even go out of his way to spend time with her, treated like absolute trash by writers who find humor in her misery, and is the only one to receive overly harsh and long-lasting consequences for her actions while also covering up and forgiving the actions of others within the episode where they do it...

doesn't get her happy ending, and won't ever get her happy ending. That thing Shadow Moth said about love and secrets not going well together? Yeah, only goes as far as the writers want it to, because both Nino and Alya still have secrets, and some of the ones they did tell each other were forced by someone else and kept until that very moment. This idea that people in love have to tell each other everything and that it makes a relationship stronger makes me immensely uncomfortable, and that lesson is also in "Guiltrip."

People should be allowed their secrets, and obviously there are exceptions for things that are being hidden with malicious intent, but being essentially forced to share everything or risk not having a "full and complete" relationship is stifling and sounds like it'd only cause stress.

This episode sucks. It furthers and confirms everything I've already thought about the show, Nino's screentime continues to be dependent on Adrien, Alya, or both, there are pointless references that completely take me out of the experience, and the utter betrayal from Alya and supposed message of the episode just reminds me that Marinette is inevitably going to be stuck with a guy who didn't even DO anything in this episode and is going to let himself stew instead of asking for any sort of clarifications from someone he apparently trusts so much.

So the takeaway is that Marinette's life is awful, she'll be forced to apologize for rules that she didn't even come up with herself, her best friend will walk all over her for the sake of her relationship with a guy - not even for the sake, really, they were going to be fine, it was more for HER personal comfort if anything - and the guy who actually makes Marinette happy and could've known her identity instead BECAUSE HE AT LEAST DIDN'T HAVE A TRACK RECORD OF SPILLING HER SECRETS gets treated in the exact same way that she does; like nothing, just something to abuse unfairly.

What a waste of an episode.

[uomo-accattivante]

Excellent article about bringing a re-make of Ingmar Bergman’s Scenes from a Marriage to fruition, and the twenty-year friendship that Oscar Isaac and Jessica Chastain share:

There were days on the shoot for “Scenes From a Marriage,” a five-episode limited series that premieres Sept. 12 on HBO, when Oscar Isaac resented the crew.

The problem wasn’t the crew members themselves, he told me on a video call in March. But the work required of him and his co-star, Jessica Chastain, was so unsparingly intimate — “And difficult!” Chastain added from a neighboring Zoom window — that every time a camera operator or a makeup artist appeared, it felt like an intrusion.

On his other projects, Isaac had felt comfortably distant from the characters and their circumstances — interplanetary intrigue, rogue A.I. But “Scenes” surveys monogamy and parenthood, familiar territory. Sometimes Isaac would film a bedtime scene with his onscreen child (Lily Jane) and then go home and tuck his own child into the same model of bed as the one used onset, accessorized with the same bunny lamp, and not know exactly where art ended and life began.

“It was just a lot,” he said.

Chastain agreed, though she put it more strongly. “I mean, I cried every day for four months,” she said.

Isaac, 42, and Chastain, 44, have known each other since their days at the Juilliard School. And they have channeled two decades of friendship, admiration and a shared and obsessional devotion to craft into what Michael Ellenberg, one of the series’s executive producers, called “five hours of naked, raw performance.” (That nudity is metaphorical, mostly.)

“For me it definitely felt incredibly personal,” Chastain said on the call in the spring, about a month after filming had ended. “That’s why I don’t know if I have another one like this in me. Yeah, I can’t decide that. I can’t even talk about it without. …” She turned away from the screen. (It was one of several times during the call that I felt as if I were intruding, too.)

The original “Scenes From a Marriage,” created by Ingmar Bergman, debuted on Swedish television in 1973. Bergman’s first television series, its six episodes trace the dissolution of a middle-class marriage. Starring Liv Ullmann, Bergman’s ex, it drew on his own past relationships, though not always directly.

“When it comes to Bergman, the relationship between autobiography and fiction is extremely complicated,” said Jan Holmberg, the chief executive of the Ingmar Bergman Foundation.

A sensation in Sweden, it was seen by most of the adult population. And yes, sure, correlation does not imply causation, but after its debut, Swedish divorce were rumored to have doubled. Holmberg remembers watching a rerun as a 10-year-old.

“It was a rude awakening to adult life,” he said.

The writer and director Hagai Levi saw it as a teenager, on Israeli public television, during a stint on a kibbutz. “I was shocked,” he said. The series taught him that a television series could be radical, that it could be art. When he created “BeTipul,” the Israeli precursor to “In Treatment,” he used “Scenes” as proof of the concept “that two people can talk for an hour and it can work,” Levi said. (Strangely, “Scenes” also inspired the prime-time soap “Dallas.”)

So when Daniel Bergman, Ingmar Bergman’s youngest son, approached Levi about a remake, he was immediately interested.

But the project languished, in part because loving a show isn’t reason enough to adapt it. Divorce is common now — in Sweden, and elsewhere — and the relationship politics of the original series, in which the male character deserts his wife and young children for an academic post, haven’t aged particularly well.

Then about two years ago, Levi had a revelation. He would swap the gender roles. A woman who leaves her marriage and child in pursuit of freedom (with a very hot Israeli entrepreneur in place of a visiting professorship) might still provoke conversation and interest.

So the Marianne and Johan of the original became Mira and Jonathan, with a Boston suburb (re-created in a warehouse just north of New York City), stepping in for the Stockholm of the original. Jonathan remains an academic though Mira, a lawyer in the original, is now a businesswoman who out-earns him.

Casting began in early 2020. After Isaac met with Levi, he wrote to Chastain to tell her about the project. She wasn’t available. The producers cast Michelle Williams. But the pandemic reshuffled everyone’s schedules. When production was ready to resume, Williams was no longer free. Chastain was. “That was for me the most amazing miracle,” Levi said.

Isaac and Chastain met in the early 2000s at Juilliard. He was in his first year; she, in her third. He first saw her in a scene from a classical tragedy, slapping men in the face as Helen of Troy. He was friendly with her then-boyfriend, and they soon became friends themselves, bonding through the shared trauma of an acting curriculum designed to break its students down and then build them back up again. Isaac remembered her as “a real force of nature and solid, completely solid, with an incredible amount of integrity,” he said.

In the next window, Chastain blushed. “He was super talented,” she said. “But talented in a way that wasn’t expected, that’s challenging and pushing against constructs and ideas.” She introduced him to her manager, and they celebrated each other’s early successes and went to each other’s premieres. (A few of those photos are used in “Scenes From a Marriage” as set dressing.)

In 2013, Chastain was cast in J.C. Chandor’s “A Most Violent Year,”opposite Javier Bardem. When Bardem dropped out, Chastain campaigned for Isaac to have the role. Weeks before shooting, they began to meet, fleshing out the back story of their characters — a husband and wife trying to corner the heating oil market in 1981 New York — the details of the marriage, business, life.

It was their first time working together, and each felt a bond that went deeper than a parallel education and approach. “Something connects us that’s stronger than any ideas of character or story or any of that,” Isaac said. “There’s something else that’s more about like, a shared existence.”

Chandor noticed how they would support each other on set, and challenge each other, too, giving each other the freedom to take the characters’ relationship to dark and dangerous places. “They have this innate trust with each other,” Chandor said.

That trust eliminated the need for actorly tricks or shortcuts, in part because they know each other’s tricks too well. Their motto, Isaac said, was, “Let’s figure this [expletive] out together and see what’s the most honest thing we can do.”

Moni Yakim, Juilliard’s celebrated movement instructor, has followed their careers closely and he noted what he called the “magnetism and spiritual connection” that they suggested onscreen in the film.

“It’s a kind of chemistry,” Yakim said. “They can read each other’s mind and you as an audience, you can sense it.”

Telepathy takes work. When they knew that shooting “Scenes From a Marriage” could begin, Chastain bought a copy of “All About Us,” a guided journal for couples, and filled in her sections in character as Mira. Isaac brought it home and showed it to his wife, the filmmaker Elvira Lind.

“She was like, ‘You finally found your match,’” Isaac recalled. “’Someone that is as big of a nerd as you are.’”

The actors rehearsed, with Levi and on their own, talking their way through each long scene, helping each other through the anguished parts. When production had to halt for two weeks, they rehearsed then, too.

Watching these actors work reminded Amy Herzog, a writer and executive producer on the series, of race horses in full gallop. “These are two people who have so much training and skill,” she said. “Because it’s an athletic feat, what they were being asked to do.”

But training and skill and the “All About Us” book hadn’t really prepared them for the emotional impact of actually shooting “Scenes From a Marriage.” Both actors normally compartmentalize when they work, putting up psychic partitions between their roles and themselves. But this time, the partitions weren’t up to code.

“I knew I was in trouble the very first week,” Chastain said.

She couldn’t hide how the scripts affected her, especially from someone who knows her as well as Isaac does. “I just felt so exposed,” she said. “This to me, more than anything I’ve ever worked on, was definitely the most open I’ve ever been.”

“It felt so dangerous,” she said.

I visited the set in February (after multiple Covid-19 tests and health screenings) during a final day of filming. It was the quietest set I had ever seen: The atmosphere was subdued, reverent almost, a crew and a studio space stripped down to only what two actors would need to do the most passionate and demanding work of their careers.

Isaac didn’t know if he would watch the completed series. “It really is the first time ever, where I’ve done something where I’m totally fine never seeing this thing,” he said. “Because I’ve really lived through it. And in some ways I don’t want whatever they decide to put together to change my experience of it, which was just so intense.”

The cameras captured that intensity. Though Chastain isn’t Mira and Isaac isn’t Jonathan, each drew on personal experience — their parents’ marriages, past relationships — in ways they never had. Sometimes work on the show felt like acting, and sometimes the work wasn’t even conscious. There’s a scene in the harrowing fourth episode in which they both lie crumpled on the floor, an identical stress vein bulging in each forehead.

“It’s my go-to move, the throbbing forehead vein,” Isaac said on a follow-up video call last month. Chastain riffed on the joke: “That was our third year at Juilliard, the throb.”

By then, it had been five months since the shoot wrapped. Life had returned to something like normal. Jokes were possible again. Both of them seemed looser, more relaxed. (Isaac had already poured himself one tequila shot and was ready for another.) No one cried.

Chastain had watched the show with her husband. And Isaac, despite his initial reluctance, had watched it, too. It didn’t seem to have changed his experience.

“I’ve never done anything like it,” he said. “And I can’t imagine doing anything like it again.”

###

[kellyvela]

The prophecy explained (LOL)

In Martin's novels and other histories like "Fire and Blood" (the main book upon which "House of the Dragon" is based), there is no mention of Aegon the Conqueror having a dream about the coming threat from the North.

But in the final minutes of the "House of the Dragon" premiere, King Viserys Targaryen (Paddy Considine) tells his heir and daughter Rhaenyra (Milly Alcock) that there's been a secret passed down from every ruler in their family since Aegon's time. 

"Aegon foresaw the end of the world of men," Viserys said. "'Tis to begin with a terrible winter, gusting out of the distant North."

He continued: "Aegon saw absolute darkness riding on those winds, and whatever dwells within will destroy the world of the living. When this great winter comes, Rhaenyra, all of Westeros must stand against it. And if the world of men is to survive, a Targaryen must be seated on the Iron Throne. A king or queen strong enough to unite the realm against the cold and the dark. Aegon called his dream 'The Song of Ice and Fire.'"

While speaking with Insider, Popsugar, and Metacritic during a press junket, "House of the Dragon" cocreator Ryan Condal explained how this scene was based on new information Martin gave him during the early writing process. Martin said Aegon was a "dreamer" — a name for Targaryens who had prophetic dreams.

"That was the detail that George actually gave us early in the story break — the idea that Aegon the Conqueror was himself a dreamer and that's what motivated the conquest," Condal said. "Which he mentioned casually in conversation, as he often does with huge pieces of information like that."

We'll explain in a bit why this prophecy is such a big piece of information, but first let's dive into how Condal's perspective on the Targaryens shifted and how the prophecy was "spun" for the TV show. 

"It really changed our thinking of the way we saw the Targaryen reign and what it was all about," Condal said. "The fact that Aegon had this knowledge — or perceived that he had this knowledge, because it is just a dream, you don't know whether it's going to come true — but that he pursued the Conquest thinking that this was an imminent problem."

Prophecy is fickle in Martin's world, as well as in Benioff and Weiss' "Game of Thrones" adaptation. Visions are not a guaranteed glimpse into the future — they're unpredictable pieces of magical insight that some people put more faith in than others. As explained in Martin's "Fire and Blood" book, a young Targaryen had a dream about the Doom of Valyria that did come true. Her foresight saved the Targaryens from extinction and led them to Dragonstone/Westeros. 

That's why kings like Viserys believe strongly in their dreams about heirs or prophesied extinction. 

"We took George's idea and spun it dramatically for 'House of the Dragon,'" Condal said. "This idea that at some point in Aegon's life as he got older, he must have realized the White Walkers weren't coming for dinner during his lifetime."

"Then we decided that if he believed in this enough to conquer Westeros, he surely would have believed in it enough to pass the idea on," Condal said. "So we had this become the legacy that the Targaryens have and they pass it from king to heir as a reminder that the Iron Throne is a privilege and it's a duty and a responsibility."

He continued: "You have to improve the kingdom and make it stronger and more united and not use it as a pursuit for selfish game. We'll see how that hangs on as our story develops."

The episode ended with Viserys' formal declaration of Rhaenyra as his heir to the Iron Throne, requiring the lords of Westeros to come and swear fealty to her succession.

But as anyone who watched "Game of Thrones" knows, there was no Targaryen near the Iron Throne when Aegon's prophecy actually comes true (more than 175 years later, according to the two shows' timelines). 

(...)

"Prophecies are, you know, a double edge sword," Martin said in an interview with Adrias News in 2012. "You have to handle them very carefully; I mean, they can add depth and interest to a book, but you don't want to be too literal or too easy."

So we know the show didn't fulfill this prophecy perfectly. But was it unfulfilled in "Game of Thrones" because Martin just hadn't told Benioff and Weiss that detail yet, or because the the showrunners decided to make a big departure from Martin's plan when it comes to the various players who claim the Iron Throne? 

Or will the prophecy be similarly subverted in the book version of the story, and fans just have to wait to see if and when "The Winds of the Winter" will be published?

Either way, fans have lots to chew on as we wait for the next episode of "House of the Dragon" and see how those hangups affect House Targaryen in this new adaptation.

...

I can't with Condal being Alan Taylor 2.0 or worse, D&D 2.0...

[iamanartichoke]

I wasn't sure if I was going to post this, but I may as well.

I keep starting to reply to things and then stopping bc the words just aren't there, and I suppose I figured out the core of what bothers me so much (and is making me have such a rollercoaster of a fan experience) about the show.

(cut for length)

It's not well-written. My opinion is my opinion, so I'm saying this subjectively, take it or leave it, but ... I feel that it's not well-written. The overall story is fine, and the plot is fine, but I don't know if it's because of the limited number of episodes not being enough to house the story, or because of the relative inexperience of the writer/showrunner+director, or both, or something else, but -

In an earlier reaction post to episode 4, I mentioned really wanting to sink my teeth into all of the subtext I picked up on. That was what made me initially enjoy the episode so much - there were a lot of little moments that I initially felt revealed so much about the characters and about Loki, and I wanted to analyze them. But at some point, as I gathered more information, my perspective changed and now I no longer want to analyze the subtext bc ... subtext = good. Subtext w/out payoff = not as good.

I'll go into more detail in a moment, but I think the tl;dr of it is that I feel like the narrative requires the audience to work way too hard to put together all of the moving pieces here and, like, I kinda just don't want to do that work? Not so much of it, and not in vain. A lot of the enjoyment of Loki's characterization is coming from fans who are rationalizing why he's behaving as he is, but the narrative never actually confirms those rationalizations. It's asking us to figure it out and maybe our conclusions will be correct but maybe they won't, though. At some point, subtext isn't enough without explicit follow-through.

I thought my issue was with the lack of character development - that is, not having enough narrative space to really earn the big things that are happening now, like Loki/Sylvie or Mobius turning against the TVA. And that's still true, to an extent; I still feel like the pacing is all very off and it seems like most of these things kinda came out of nowhere (but are not unbelievable - just undeveloped).

But, yknow, it is what it is, it's a limited series, and I can excuse some things. Ultimately, my issue isn't a problem with what the narrative isn't doing, it's a problem with what the narrative already failed to do and probably cannot recover from at this point.

The narrative has left out significant details that should at least help us do some of the work here. If a person turned on Loki and started episode 1 and had no background knowledge of the character besides that he tried to take over New York - how would that person interpret Loki? Would that person say, oh, well, he's been through X, Y, and Z, and plus A happened, not to mention B, C, and D, so really, it makes sense that he seems off-the-rails, or that he'd want to get ridiculously drunk at the worst time ever.

Maybe we'd like to believe they would, but how would they be getting to that conclusion? The narrative hasn't led them in that direction so, no, they would not say well we have to consider this, this, and that. It would be impossible to really understand Loki as a character from just what we've gotten in the series. The general audience would probably interpret Loki as being out of his element and so it becomes, I wonder how this character is going to get the upper hand here. And, while that's not wrong, it's just so limited.

The narrative at face value does not address Loki's identity crisis from Thor 2011. It does not address his hurt and devastation at being lied to, nor does it address how complicated his self-image is (bc it sucked to begin with and that was before he found out he was part of a race of "monsters," as he'd been taught his entire life). It does not reference Loki being so broken at the end of Thor 2011 that he deliberately let himself fall into the void of space (aka tried to kill himself). It does not reference that he was tortured by Thanos or even that he went through a seriously dark time in between Thor and Avengers, and it absolutely does not reference or address any influence or control of the mind stone.

These are all things that we, the fan audience, know because we've already invested our time into this character's story. But tons of people, the general audience, wouldn't know these things. Or if they did, bc they saw Thor and Avengers, they wouldn't be thinking about them as deeply as we would, nor contextualizing them with how Loki is behaving now, or why it would make sense that he needed to get drunk, or why it's understandable that he needs to keep going-going-going in order to not have a spare second to think or feel.

They'd probably look at Loki, again, as a character who was a villain and is now getting his comeuppance in a place where he has no power or control, and no literal powers, and even when he manages to escape and catch up to the variant, he proceeds to fuck up their plan for seemingly no real reason except that he wanted to get drunk bc he's hedonistic. Which Sylvie even berates him for! I mean. This is not exactly a complex character breakdown, nor a very flattering one, but that's what the narrative has given us.

(If the narrative has addressed Loki's mind control, his torture, his mental breakdown, his suicide attempt, and his general shitty self-esteem as a result of his upbringing, please point it out to me. If the narrative has explicitly acknowledged and referenced these things anywhere and I am missing it, please show me where. Please explain to me how the casual viewer would know any of these things that they need to know in order to actually understand what's happening in this story.)

So I mean, okay, we have a narrative that doesn't paint a full, accurate picture of Loki. Fine, sure. But because the general audience starts out on the wrong footing, they're not going to get out of the overall story what the writers probably intended them to. For example, in episode 3, a lot of us theorized that Loki had some kind of plan - that he broke the timepad on purpose, for some reason, bc otherwise it wasn't believable that he'd be such a failure. But episode 4 revealed that no, there was no bigger plan, Loki just plain old messed up. Which is fine if, again, one is only considering the surface-level portrayal here, but it's not true to Loki's actual characterization.

I mean. Loki is not perfect and Loki actually fails a lot, this is true. He fails for a lot of reasons, but incompetence has never been one of them. Usually it's that either things grew beyond his control, or there ended up being too many moving parts, or he had to change his plan at the last minute due to some roadblock or another being thrown his way, or even that he got in his own way - whatever the case may be for his plans' failures, he was always at least shown to know what he was doing.

That wasn't the case here. The "plan" to fix the Timepad failed as a direct result of Loki's actions, which were careless and made him seem incompetent, like he couldn't even handle this mission. "You had one job," etc. And there were pretty big consequences for this; they were not able to get off-world in time and would have been killed had the TVA not shown up at the last second.

And maybe none of these things matter bc the writers never intended any of this to be a reflection on Loki's character, positive or negative. The situation exists solely because the writers needed to put Loki and Sylvie together in some kind of hopeless scenario so that they could get closer, and thus the narrative could set up their romance. I get that - but, there were other ways to do it that didn't require Loki to look foolish.

Furthermore, the whole reason they needed to set up the romance is to show Loki eventually learning to love himself (like, figuratively but also literally). The audience is supposed to gather that Loki and Sylvie fell for one another, possibly due to the high emotional aspect of, yknow, being about to die (in addition to the variant-bond). The intent is clear: Loki and Sylvie almost die but get rescued at the last minute, having now created an emotional bond --> Loki and Sylvie team up and the narrative further establishes that Loki, at least, has caught feelings --> Loki might confess them but is pruned before he gets the chance --> he somehow survives, he and Sylvie are reunited and don't want to lose one another again, and the combined power of their love is enough to break the sacred timeline and spawn the multiverse, and the reason that the power of their love is so, well, powerful is because it's about self-love and self-acceptance as much as it is about having the capacity to love someone else. The end.

I get all that. The writers more or less said all that. And, I mean, it's certainly not the way I would have chosen to go about it, but it's a fair enough arc to explore. I don't really have an issue with the intent - but my question, however, is this: if the narrative has so far not addressed Loki's background issues (as outlined above), and has furthermore kinda gone out of its way to portray Loki as hedonistic and narcissistic, among other things (like kinda incompetent), and the context the audience starts with is that Loki's this villain who deserves what he gets -

- my question is 1, why should the audience care whether or not Loki gets to a point of loving and accepting himself (thus to make the theme of self-love, via the romance, hold weight) if they don't know that he hates himself to begin with and 2, why should the audience root for Loki to reach that point when so far the perception of him is that he's "kind of an asshole"? if he's a hedonistic narcissist, he probably already has a pretty inflated sense of himself, right? A misplaced inflated sense of himself, at that, because, again, the narrative has made him out to be not that capable of much of anything. (And it didn't start out that way! It seemed to start out with Loki being capable and intelligent but it's like episode 3, in trying to set up the romance, just jumbled it all up somewhere. I think this is why I'm harping on the Loki/Sylvie aspect so much - it's frustrating bc it kinda messes up the whole story and can't even accomplish what it's supposed to anyway.)

Anyway, that's beside the point. What I'm ultimately getting at is, at what point is the audience supposed to get invested in Loki's personal growth journey?

They can't, not really. Without understanding and having the context of everything Loki has been through up until now, and why he hates himself, and why it's so important that he learn to love himself, then the "payoff" becomes kinda pointless bc the significance of it is lost in translation. So suddenly we're left with this romance that comes off as either "Loki loves Sylvie bc of Reasons" (best-case scenario) or "Loki loves Sylvie bc he's vain, narcissistic, and kinda twisted" (worst-case scenario). Neither of these conclusions are what the writers intended or were going for, I'm positive, but there we are, regardless.

In order for the writers' intent in these storylines to land, they need to address the context of what makes these particular stakes high for Loki. So far, they haven't done that. They're asking the audience to pick up on all of these things, and they're showing things that subtextually make sense and are relatively in-character - but only if you realize there's subtext in the first place.

But you can't expect the audience to do all of the work for you. If you don't want the audience to think that Loki is a narcissistic asshole and instead you are trying to convey that, worst-case scenario, he thinks he's a narcissist but is an unreliable narrator, then you have to address that. If you need the audience to understand why you're going the selfcest route and why it's important to explore Loki's capacity to love himself and others, you have to address where that exploration is starting from and why it matters. Etc etc etc.

The narrative isn't doing any of that. And it isn't like it'd be that hard to do it. They don't need to reinvent the wheel here; a lot of the pieces are already there. A few lines of dialogue for context, a brief scene here or there addressing the issues, a little more care and consistency in how Loki handles things - these are all little things that could go a long fucking way in making the narrative stronger.

I'm rambling. My basic point is that my rollercoaster of emotions with this show is because

- as a part of the fan audience, not the general one, I can contextualize and analyze the subtext and come to the conclusions the show wants me to, and thus find the story and the characters more or less enjoyable,

- but I am also going to be using the subtext to come to conclusions that aren't there but probably should be (I think it would be a better story, for example, for Loki to confuse platonic love with romantic love bc it would pave the way to explore just how fucked up Loki's understanding of love - whether of other people or of himself, and the different forms it can take - actually is)

- and when they're ultimately not there, then I think, okay why am I bothering doing all this work just to ultimately feel very unfulfilled? They don't even have to write it the way I would, I'm not saying that, but they do have to do something to make the story feel rewarding.

If we don't get some confirmation of what Loki's been through, and where his headspace is, and why it matters for him to love himself, then the story remains pretty shallow and, for me, it's not fulfilling enough. It's not engaging enough. There isn't actually anything to sink my teeth into, so it becomes kind of boring. Maybe it's rewarding to other people, and that's great for them, but like - I need more than whatever this is.

So I'm just like - well, I had a lot of worries about this show, but my being bored wasn't one of them and now there's only two episodes left and am I really not going to get anything out of this, in the long run? No new canons, no new depths or layers, no new information on Loki's experiences? This is it?

I don't dislike it. I didn't start out disliking it, and I probably wont end up disliking it. I mean, there are a lot of good moments, and good things, and fan service-y things that I appreciate. As far as inspiration for fic goes, it's a goldmine, both plot-wise as well as aesthetic-wise. All of that is great. I don't dislike this show.

But I am disappointed in it, and I feel like I'll be watching the next two episodes lacking the sense of anticipation that would make it exciting. I'll still enjoy them, probably, if for nothing else just the sheer Loki content, but whatever it was I felt watching episodes 1 and 2 is gone and I'm sad about that, too. Because I really wanted to feel fulfilled by this series; I wanted it to fill up the void that Loki's death in IW created three years ago. And I just ... don't feel it. Maybe, maybe that'll change over the course of episodes 5 and 6. I don't know.

Everything that I end up enjoying long-term, I think, will come about as a result of my own interpretations and analysis and while theoretically there's nothing wrong with that, if I had known all I'd get out of this series was more headcanons or support for my current headcanons then, well - that's fine, I suppose, but I'll definitely a little bit robbed.

[clairenatural]

thinking a lot abt how like.........john was abusive. like we all know that but also the narrative knows it. it’s said multiple times on screen. dean says it himself, that he didn’t deserve it. john’s journal, official merchandise, paints him in the worst light possible. at multiple points in the show dean’s entire development arc centers around distancing himself from john and not becoming their father, and yet. because of a few people in the writers and producers room, you get episodes like lebanon where the boys forgive him and he ends up in heaven, down the road from dean. and obviously on one hand it just shows the split in tptb on how they approach both this and other parts of the show, and that makes everything (especially the ending) make more sense, but it also means neither dean nor sam can ever heal or move on. it means dean is allowed (and, even forced) to stay angry, like john, and he gets stuck in this cycle where he can never really break away from that because that would require the narrative to say, once and for all, john was abusive and dean deserved better and he is going to be better--and when they do start to go there, like the beginning of s13, they walk it back immediately as soon as it hits the “once and for all decry john, for real, with no retconning this time” line and i just. idk. a lot would be different if they had just actually gone the full mile and said yes, john was abusive. and then not gone back on that. and not put him in dean’s heaven as one last ‘fuck you’. not least because dean would have been actually allowed to grow more than two steps forward, one step back. 

[quibblesandscribbles]

Centaurworld Rewrite: A Serious Adventure AU - S1E1 Outline

I’m doing rewrite outlines, prepare for some AU. That being said, I still like several parts of Centaurworld a lot, namely Rider, Horse, Wammawink, and whatever the hell is going on with the Nowhere King, and hope there’s a second season to watch (which I will if Netflix doesn’t ruin our hopes and dreams).

Anyways, here’s like, a rewrite or whatever. I will probably post the outlines as I go, episode by episode. Will I get to them all? ADHD-willing, we’ll see. Also feel free to use these ideas/outlines? I don’t mind. 

Also assume there are songs in this even if I don’t specifically mention all of them. Also I guess this rewrite kinda chains the 1st and 2nd episodes together as a two parter? Maybe, idk.

Also I’ll preface this with this too: I ship Wammahorse, yes I SHIPSHIP it. Moving on.

Some headcanons before we start:

Warworld (*the world Rider and Horse are from) is a Low Fantasy Setting, there IS magic, but it comes in two variations, either very subtle low-powered but relatively uncommon, or Terrifyingly Powerful and so extremely rare to the point that it’s not very well known and “just myths” (usually for Big Baddies)

Ideas for Horse’s Degree of Sapience Prior to Worldhopping:

A: Horse was just a regular, non-magical horse, and their exposure to the Artifact and Centaurworld has essentially made them a Fully Uplifted Animal. - This is interesting, but ultimately a difficult idea to convey because it would require a lot more setup and wouldn’t exactly fit Horse’s characterization without some rework. This is an amazing idea, but I won’t be using it because it would slow things down too much.

B: Horse is a low-fantasy magic steed raised as warhorse/war asset, who is much smarter than your average animal steed/companion similar to a DND Ranger’s pets, or Mabari from Dragon Age, or a Ranger Horse from John Flanagan’s ‘Ranger’s Apprentice.’ The combined exposure to the Artifact and Centaurworld could account for her gaining speech and her body expressing limited physical adaptation to Centaurworld’s different physics (her body’s new extended range of motion for example) but of course I’ll be limiting this because having stakes make it more fun imho. This is my favorite, I’m using this.

Horse would’ve been considered a very valuable war asset (trained warhorses are like, historical ferraris, expensive as hell, i can only imagine what low-magical smart warhorses would be valued at), though still ultimately expendable for the war effort like anything else

Let Horse have horse behaviors (*can you tell I haven’t really left my horse phase behind lol)! Nipping and grooming behaviors as affection or warnings, ear positions to indicate mood, grazing to eat, laying down only when truly relaxed, sleeping standing up. COME ON.

Centaurworld is a High Fantasy world with an Absurdist bent but with darker undertones, similar to how Adventure Time is, with an extremely high saturation of magic, maybe you could even theorize that due to the Splitting of the Two Worlds that all the magic is being Dammed up in Centaurworld like a river or reservoir, this could be a future plot thread that could be picked up in a later season.

Basic Changes: 

Durpleton, Glendale, Ched and Zulius are supporting cast, not main

Durpleton is less stupid and more of a Kronk-expy: a little dim but ultimately kind/means well, has at least 1 life skill he’s good at buried in there though for the life of me I can’t think of one right now.

Glendale’s Narrative Framing: Glendale is amazing, but the kleptomania will be allotted ONE (or two) joke mentions but narratively isn’t treated like one after, somehow establish that her kleptomania is directly intertwined with her anxiety levels. Are there other denizens of the Valley that know the Herd? Are they mad at Glendale for stealing things? Does Wammawink have to constantly run interference to cover for Glendale? Probably.

Make Ched look like less of a pointless asshole: Have him show concern for his friends’ safety and his suspicion of outsiders, AKA Horse. If he’s going to be a jerk, at least let it serve a purpose.

Zulius can stay roughly the same - Zulius is great okay, just don’t tell me there’s backstory and then NOT TELL OR SHOW US ANY CLUES about what said backstory/history IS! (other than forcing us infer/project the headcanon[?] that him and Splendib might’ve been exes, from how they act around each other without any other context/visual/or confirming exposition we literally know nothing other than Splendib and him split/had a nasty falling out and Splendib took the glittercats and the career in the divorce.)

S1E1: Hello Rainbow Road

Opening scene in Warworld

If these episodes were allowed to be longer (shuddup it’s my AU), have the scene open with Horse sees Rider comes running out of some underground castle ruin catacombs and ominous roaring and clanging behind her as she deliberately sets off a dungeon booby trap (arrows or fire) she must’ve avoided while dungeon crawling earlier, and Horse runs towards her and circles at a canter and then Rider does a Running Mount (mounting a horse while the horse is in motion) and shoots an arrow at that flies offscreen

Smash cut to the DRAWBRIDGE door falling and Rider and Horse come galloping out while dodging some javelins and arrows and 1.5 seconds later 1-4 armored minotaurs (the lizardmen?) riding some coursers (swift horses or horselike creatures idk have fun) gallop behind in hot pursuit.

WARWORLD CHASE/FIGHT SCENE

Rider and Horse take out 2 of the pursuers on the run have Rider stay on horseback, dodge and make 1 pursuer shoot/javelin another 1 into a nasty-looking fall, and then Rider nails another 1 right through the helmet visor with an arrow. Have Rider throw a smoke bomb or something at the 2 remaining ones trying to catch up.

2 Enemies left but Horse is forced to skid to a stop as the suspension bridge approaches, then a tense moment forced to walk in order to escape safely across the suspension bridge which Rider cuts once they’re across. Maybe have 1 of the minotaur pursuers having been on the bridge somewhat behind them before Rider had to cut the line, sending the enemy hurtling down below. The remaining minotaur scout stares at them ominously from the other side before leaving.

Have Rider breath a sigh of relief

Smash cut to Horse and Rider traveling across a wartorn landscape, start Horse’s internal monologue narrative until they finally get to the hill and see the ruins of their village

Everything from this point to Horse getting transported to Centaurworld is the same as canon

Not Actually a DREAMVISION SEQUENCE: 

Shot/Animated from Horse’s 1st Person POV: Darkness, the sound of whooshing Horse falls, shimmering flash colors [if this were an actual show pls put a Epilepsy warning at the beginning of the ep], then a loud Splash as Horse falls into Dark Water. POV looks down and we see Horse’s front legs and a bottomless abyss below and a then flash of green and off-white from deep below, then look up to see blue light, see the swimming motions of Horse’s front legs and getting closer to the Blue Light

Horse wakes up, blinking, alone (no Durpleton)

Horse gets up looks around, doesn’t see Rider anywhere and starts makes Whinnying sounds (specifically, Whinnying is a social horse call, like specifically going, “Rider where are you!?” in IRL horse)

“And what are you supposed to be?” the “camera” wheels around to see Ched who has landed on Horse just within reach of her tail so Horse lets out a startled squeal (the Horse noise, not the human one) and does that thing where horses use their tails to swat away insects which sends Ched FLYING as Horse’s squealing morphs into her Talking/Yelling “what the heck is going on?!”

Horse does what panicked horses do, she runs

Horse stumbles into meeting Durpleton, who freaks her out more

Meeting kinda the same as canon but with less constant emphasis on reminding the audience that the writer’s can’t write comedy

Wammawink and Horse meet, Ched flies in and goes “hey that asshole kicked my a-I mean attacked me, but I totally beat ‘em.”

Horse tries to leave, discovers the Barrier, tries to get through, fails multiple times, but only 3-4 attempts shown with time passage show by the time of day changing, have Horse’ talking to herself a bit about how utterly weird the talking words thing is, that this is a “human” thing why is this HAPPENING she needs to get back

Waste less time on the visual gags of the Barrier repelling Horse, also get rid of the Tree Catapult scene because it doesn’t jive with Horse being a horse, why do they know how to make a catapult? Also because I hate how it basically shows us that Horse has no physical danger or chance of injury from being FLUNG around like Pokemon’s Team Rocket.

Have the rest of the centaur Herd come up to and talk to Horse while Horse is trying to get through the Barrier, and Horse talks about the outside and her world and doing things, squeeze in some convo about how there’s no (current) war in Centaurworld and how Horse thinks that that “freedom must be nice.” Anyways these conversations are what has Glendale, Zulius and Durpleton at least considering the ups of leaving.

Durpleton: Durpleton approaches Horse alone and asks about where she’s from, what’s home like, expositiony bits for Warworld and how much Horse needs to get herself and the Artifact back to Rider; Horse should say something offhand, like how she dreamed about exploring the world with Rider after the War seeing new things together, to which we’d cut to a shot of Durpleton looking thoughtful, before asking a completely unrelated question before Horse asks to be left alone. He doesn’t go originally, but gets distracted by something (butterfly?) and trots off.

Wammawink, Ched & Glendale: Atop a hill, Wammawink looks up to see stormclouds gathering off in the distance and comments that they’re going to be in for some rough weather, then goes over to offer Horse food, but gets distracted by some other Valley Denizens who are mad suspicious that Glendale is responsible for something of theirs that’s missing. Leaving Wammawink to go off and have to run interference leaving Glendale to approach Horse alone. Horse will learn that there’s no (current) war in Centaurworld but there was one historically, and Glendale will offhandedly mention that they’ve stolen everything from everyone in the Valley at least 4 times and with the unspoken implication of boredom. Ched will butt in and heckle Horse like, “could you leave any quieter?” and Horse sniping back, ears pinned back and animated horse stress behaviors. And Horse’s last failed attempt at passing the Barrier has them drop the Artifact, and we get a shot of Glendale spotting and eyes widening at seeing the Artifact unattended on the ground, then we get a smash cut of Glendale getting herded away by Ched.

Zulius: Goes over to ask about Horse’s avante garde accessories (her bridle, saddle & armor[barding]), makes comments on her style/aesthetic and asks where he could find some. Horse loses her patience, and says that she Needs to concentrate on getting back to someone they care a lot about and could you please just go away? 

Horse: (voiced as a rhetorical question) “Haven’t you ever wanted to go back to someone you loved before?”

Zulius gets a Look on his face, then he’d puff up, cover up the Armor Piercing Question’s effect on him with more bluster and then turn away as it gets later

Around sunset, Horse finally gives in to go ask Wammawink what’s up, and how can they leave.

Wammawink tries to feed them and convince them to stay, but Horse waves her off and moves away while muttering something about coming up with a plan

Speaking of plans, the Herd excluding Wammawink (& Ched) start talking about being bored, and mention Horse saying stuff about exploring the world (taken out of context, deliberately)

Wammawink, smelling the ugly head of discontent, sighs in defeat at not being able to recruit this new outcast in the Herd and approaches a grazing Horse and says she’ll help her through it with her magic(not admitting that the Barrier is her magic working in the first place because it’s not relevant right now okay) but then we get the “What’s magic?” bit from Horse and the rest of the Herd butts in with the Song. They wander off to go to bed afterwards, and Horse wants to go Now but Wammawink says that she’ll help Horse leave the Barrier but only in the morning because “you look tired”

Horse: “That doesn’t matter.” *awkward silence*

Wammawink, sadly: “Of course it does.” *Horse has already walked away*

The sun finishes setting as the wind blows the plants and through Wammawink’s fur (ominously) and she shivers, going back to the campfire

DREAM SEQUENCE: It’s dark, then we get a flashback dream of a younger Rider and Horse, idk a memory of something to showcase them either while in training or really show their Bond okay? End with them sitting around a campfire with other young soldiers and horses, someone is humming something (the first few bars of the Nowhere King’s Lullaby, no actual words yet). Then Dream!Rider turns to face Horse and asks, “how could you?”

Horse: “How could I what?”

Dream!Rider: “How could you leave me behind?” (The humming grows louder, there’s a lute being played, growing discordant)

Then Horse starts calling into the darkness/void, “I’m coming back for you, Rider! Just hang on, alright?!”

Rider: “Oh Horse, it’s already too late for me.”

“Rider!” Horse yells as they jolt awake, standing, because horses typically sleep standing up.

It’s dawn but the wind and stormy weather signs are picking up but not here yet, Wammawink walks Horse to the edge of the Valley barrier and tries to convince Horse to stay here where it’s safe, but Horse refuses to be deterred

Brief shot of Glendale hiding a bunch of things from her Tummy Hammerspace in order to simulate the feeling of stealing things again later, including the Artifact which falls on the ground

A shot of Durpleton seeing and picking up the Artifact and spotting Wammawink and Horse some distance away going toward the barrier’s edge

Wammawink hangs back on a hill, glowy hands and the magic wall flickers and disappears, and Horse immediately breaks into a gallop and disappears into the forest, Wammawink sighs and turns away

Indeterminate amount of time later, Wammawink recasts the Barrier, and Durpleton misses breakfast so Wammawink enlists Ched to help her look for him because Ched can fly

Cut to a shot of Horse dropping from a canter to a trot on the Rainbow Road, it’s grown darker and the stormclouds are in the sky. Distant thunder booms overhead, and a few scattered raindrops start to fall

“Heyyyy! You forgot your necklaceeee!” a shout from behind

Horse looks back and sees a running Durpleton holding the Artifact, and stops, he catches up to Horse and is gasping, “Wow, you run fast, hoooo, *deep breaths* you’re really *another gasp* athletic! Anyways you forgot your Necklace.”

Durpleton ties the broken string into a necklace around Horse’s neck and Horse thanks them and wishes them a safe journey back to the Valley, but as this happens the rain gradually falls harder. Then the sounds of the Rest of the Herd finally catching up happen, and Wammawink mother hens Durpleton and wants take everyone back home but then a loud BOOM of thunder and lightning overhead, and then it starts to Pour down rain, forcing Horse and co to find shelter until it lets up. Maybe have someone mention something about landslides being a possibility? Durpleton asks how they found them so fast, dim remember, then brief flashback.

FLASHBACK: Wammawink and co searching and calling out for Durpleton everywhere in the Valley, and realize that he must’ve followed Horse for some reason when Zulius FINALLY shows up and mentions that he remembers Durpleton saying he was gonna give Horse back her necklace. The recast Barrier is brought down and they leave the Valley to bring back their friend.

Back to the present where the group has taken shelter as the storm picks up more, and thunder booms overhead, Horse has some nervous horse body language going on, then we get to hear her mutter-singing or humming the “I never fear the drums of war” to calm herself down, but with more stanzas please, when asked she says it’s a battle hymn that Rider sang.

If Horse was humming, Wammawink could ask why she doesn’t sing, she’s sure that Horse has a lovely voice

Horse goes “I’m a horse, I don’t sing.”

Wammawink tries to be encouraging, Horse is resistant

Wammawink invites her to eat (AGAIN) but Horse still turns her (love and affection) down (AGAIN!) and says she’s fine with grazing and Glendale pipes in excitedly that they have decided that they want to travel with Horse (Ched pipes up that he didn’t agree to this) but pls help us convince Wammawink and Horse protests but someone points out to ask “do you even know where you’re going” and they have a point

Horse acknowledges this and relents, states some stuff about how she’s not going to slow down much however. Then Glendale, Zulius and Durpleton rejoice, Ched acts tsundere, but Wammawink looks nervous and wrings her hands together and relents that “they’ll go with Horse as far as the nearest Shaman” and Ched will go, “hey don’t you know he-” and Wammawink shushes him quickly with a gigglecake

Wammawink doubles down on the mother henning behavior

Horse doesn’t eat Wammawink’s gigglecakes but grazes by herself nearby, occasionally answering a question or two when engaged by the others (not Wammawink) and Wammawink mentions how the weather probably won’t let up for very long and they should take it slow and that Horse should bundle up

Horse disagrees but its bedtime and a bedtime song occurs in the backdrop as a restless Horse struggles to stay alert and awake but eventually falls asleep

VISION SEQUENCE: A shimmer of soft blue light, then shots of Rider ducking and weaving, her sword flashing as she tries to weave her way through a horde of enemy soldiers, blood spatters, then an enemy archer takes aim at a fleeing Rider, and Horse calls out a warning. 

Rider turns her head with a surprised look on her face suddenly just enough that the arrow buries itself into her shoulder instead the middle of her back and then she stumbles, one of her arms going limp, but everything goes dark before we can see if she fell

Everything goes dark and the din of war fades away, we get a shot of Horse’s hooves splashing and making ripples into dark water but the camera doesn’t follow her, we hear Horse’s cries for Rider fade, growing further and further away

Still dark, but in the silence we hear distant sound, drip, drip, drip, drip.

Then the episode ends and the credits roll.

[your-brilliant-lady-m]

Part 3 - Basic Concepts of Miraculous Ladybug: Transformations, Potions and Power-Up's

Welcome to my analysis of basic concepts in Miraculous. Let's talk about transformations, potions and power-up's. This one is going to be interesting.

Apparently, only child superheroes have a time limit and can use their power only once. And adults can use their powers many times and maintain their transformation.

I don't take Thomas Astruc's Twitter statements seriously, but he said that adults don't have to detransform because they can feed the kwami with their energy. What happens when energy runs out? Does it mean that holder of the miraculous dies and transformation drops? Or does transformation drops when the kwami grows tired enough? However, according to "Silencer", transformation can't be released until the holder says detransformation words or uses their power (applies to children only). Is that why Master Fu doesn't transform these days? Because he is old and doesn't have enough energy for Wayzz.

At the same time, Bunnix/Bunnyx held her transformation for several thousand years in "Timetagger" and she was still alive. Moreover, not only she was still alive, she hasn't aged a day. Alix still looked around 25 even after spending so much time in stone. Her sanity was also still intact. Does that mean that as long as people are transformed they are immortal and can't die of natural causes, can't get sick or be killed? Does the Miraculous pause all inner processes? Do people stop ageing when they are transformed? Does that mean that prolonged transformations essentially slowed down puberty for Marinette and Adrien because every Akuma attack (their transformation during this attack to be precise) acts as a pause for their growth process? Does that mean that transformed heroes don't need food, sleep or oxygen? And Alix doesn't experience any negative side-effects after prolonged transformation. A lot of questions must be answered here.

But apparently, the "adults can use their power many times without detransforming" rule does not apply to Gabriel. In "Heroes' Day" he turns Nathalie into Catalyst who gives Hawkmoth the power to "release as many akumas as he desires". Does that mean that he can't normally do it? On the other hand, in "Queen Banana" he creates another Akuma right after the fight with akumatized Chloe ended.

Do you remember this? In "Origins" we find out that akumatized butterflies can multiply. That's why Ladybug needs to purify them. So, does that mean that Scarlet Moth and Catalyst weren't necessary?

Hawkmoth's plan in "Heroes' Day" was actually very smart. However, it can fall apart when you remember that butterflies can multiply. How does that work? Why do they multiply? Could Gabriel akumatize Nathalie into Catalyst (akumatized object is something not very valuable, like a piece of paper), then break the akumatized object and release the Akuma into the world? Would that turn people only into copies of Catalyst? I wouldn't call this thing a plothole, exactly. I'm just curious because it's an unclear moment. Perhaps you could explain it as the element of a soft magic system with unclear rules. Because the magic system in Miraculous is a mix between the hard and soft system.

Adults without time-limited power have a serious advantage over children. Why does Master Fu give Ladybug and Black Cat to teenagers then? In the beginning, Fu doesn't know that Butterfly holder is an adult. Isn't it safer to give 2 most powerful Miraculouses to adults just in case? If Butterfly Holder is a child then 2 adults with more powerful Miraculous would win much faster. If Butterfly Holder is an adult as well, then the fight is more even.

We know the out-of-universe reason for doing this. There would be no story then. Miraculous holders have to be kids since it's a kids show. But in-universe it doesn't make sense. In "Furious Fu" Su Han even says that children are not allowed to handle the Miraculous at all according to the rules of the Order. Fu knows that children have a time limit. It looks like he deliberately sets them up for failure. Why?

Is that because children are easier to manipulate as they are most likely to trust Fu's judgement no questions asked? This reasoning doesn't look good for Fu, who is supposed to be a wise and kind mentor. Is that because children won't abuse their powers? Find a trustworthy adult then. Give us some kind of in-universe explanation!

If you can't explain it then do something with the time-limit rule. It's an important plot device, which contributes to tension and raises the stakes during fights. So, removing it is unwise. Consider giving adults a time limit as well then.

Or you can create different rules. Maybe Black Cat and Ladybug can't be wielded by adults, unlike other lower-tier Miraculous? Maybe Miraculous and Kwami can choose the wielder in some capacity, and this magical bond can't be changed? Do Kwamis feel a pull towards several people and Guardian then chooses the final holder? If there's no pull whatsoever, then Kwami won't be able to grant powers to this person? How much weight does the decision of a Guardian have?

I actually like this last idea the most. It makes sense and avoids plotholes at the same time preserving the time-limit rule. I spent less than 20 minutes figuring this out.

This way Fu gave Ladybug and Black Cat to children because he didn't have a choice. Plagg and Tikki gave him suggestions but these people didn't pass his tests. Marinette and Adrien are the last ones and they do pass. It adds some tension and showcases desperation on Master Fu's part. Magical pull doesn't always mean that potential holders are good people. That's why Miraculous sometimes end up in the wrong hands.

Insert a conversation between Marinette and Tikki or Plagg and Adrien about this choosing process, have them wonder about the bond Nooroo and Hawkmoth share.

Then add more information about bonding. The magical connection can be formed just like people form relationships if human and Kwami spend some time together. It nicely adds up with the reason why Master Fu gave Ladybug and Black Cat to teenagers. He could have given both jewels to adults without a bond and waited for the connection to form but alas, there was no time. He needed active holders right now, and waiting for some adult to come around wasn't an option. But here's the catch. Only decent, kind people with good intentions can earn and create a magical bond. And this has the potential for a truly delicious scenario (more on that later).

It's a very tricky situation. But these rules must be stated and figured out in the very beginning. Because it can create plotholes down the line.

Unification

Combining several different Miraculous is an interesting concept and fusion of powers has been used for a long time as a storytelling element. It's important for the plot in several episodes of seasons 3 and 4.

However, there's "Kwamibuster", where the worldbuilding is broken one more time. It is awfully inconsistent within itself just like "Chat Blanc", "Timetagger" and "Furious Fu". (How do writers keep doing this? I have no idea. But then again even "Avengers: Endgame" contradicts itself numerous times. It's truly miraculous how they managed to do this with their budget, I'm impressed).

For a moment let's ignore all absolutely awful priorities that Marinette has in this episode as well as the rule "you can't know the identity of your partner or else you will have to give up your miraculous". This rule is literally never mentioned again before or after this episode. It's just there and it doesn't make sense. I know it's hard to ignore, but one must try. Instead, let's focus on this dialogue below.

Master Fu clearly states that you can't merge the Miraculous. It could make you lose your mind. The only more or less acceptable unification is that of Ladybug and Black Cat.

What happens next? Marinette puts on every Miraculous without any problem just "to free Kwamis" and transforms into Multimouse. The only sign of her discomfort is a moment of dizziness that's gone in a few seconds. Moreover, it never happens again, it's never mentioned. Then she does the exact thing that Fu told her not to do and starts merging Miraculous left and right. She continues to do so in season 4 every other day. What? Of course, how could I forget Shadowmoth? Gabriel merges 2 Miraculous every time in season 4. He doesn't lose his mind.

You can't tell us that merging can make you lose your mind and then in the next scene show us the complete opposite. That's bad writing. If you need the concept of unification to work then cancel the "lose your mind" rule and instead say that the merging process tires you out. There's no lasting harm, just that you will be very tired. If you want to raise the stakes, then say that wielding more than one Miraculous requires a strong will and practice. It's possible, but you can't perform unification just like that.

In this case, you lay the groundwork for the plotline of Marinette and Adrien for season 4 and 5. This plotline is about mastering unification. Show us how our heroes practice with different combinations of Miraculouses outside of Akuma battles. Show how they are improving. Maybe, Ladybug and Chat Noir nearly lose in the season 3 finale because the unification still drains them. However, in season 4 they put more effort into their training and by the time season 5 rolls around they are good at this. They became a stronger team and partners because of that. Their training sessions are also a good set-up for the development of the love square. Nothing like this will happen, but a girl can dream.

Look, I get it. You want Marinette to be special. Unfortunately, you have made her too special. She starts to break the laws of your magic system. We don't see the process. One moment she has 0 knowledge about something and then she is already an accomplished master of the thing in question and often it happens in the same episode. Marinette somehow just knows about the properties of every Miraculous on-screen, but her training happened off-screen. We as the audience are left confused and wondering. Wait, how does she know this? Was there a missing episode? Was this mentioned in some comic? The audience keenly feels the lack of plot-relevant content and explanations.

Potions and Power-Ups

They are a marketing ploy to sell more toys and merch with character transformations. That's it. Are they useful for the story? Yes, they are sometimes. Do power-up's make sense as a worldbuilding element? I'm sorry to tell you this, but no.

Miraculous Grimoire contains lots of potion recipes for Kwamis. I liked that Kwamis can't read the grimoire to avoid giving information to malevolent holders, which implies that they can't lie to their holder about their powers. I talked about this in my previous posts.

Let's start with Ice Transformation. Apparently, in-universe its only useful characteristic and the thing that sets it apart from normal transformation is skates. Maybe, this transformation also has additional protection from the cold. Maybe. Miraculous makes heroes nearly invulnerable and enhances their physical abilities. I find it hard to believe that protection from elements is not included in the package. And that's it. If we remember that Miraculous holders have subconscious control over transformation's appearance, we can also assume that a person can have conscious control as well. The laws of the magic system in Miraculous allow Marinette to ask Tikki to create skates for this particular transformation. Potions aren't necessary for this. This way you can still sell new toy, but in-universe this works better.

Our next stop is Aqua Transformation. It gives heroes the ability to breathe underwater and fins. That's all. In "Syren" it appears that this transformation also makes them more agile and fast in the water. However, Ladybug's yo-yo worked just fine before Aqua form when she tried to drag Kim to the surface. Her movements underwater weren't restricted either with normal transformation. So their fighting ability is not affected by the potion.

Kwami can live without oxygen. I mentioned earlier that Bunnix with normal transformation in "Timetagger" spent several thousand years in stone without oxygen and probably in some kind of stasis. Do transformed heroes need oxygen? No. Then their inability to breathe underwater doesn't make sense. Therefore, a potion isn't necessary for this.

Next, let's talk about fins. They could appear through the conscious desire of the holder just like skates.

Honestly, "Timetagger" and "Chat Blanc" completely destroyed worldbuilding in Miraculous. These episodes just shouldn't exist. They aren't even consistent within themselves, nevermind the rest of the show, which is why I still don't understand why fandom has such a weird hard-on for them and for Bunnix. Oh, wait. On second thought, I get it. They were just fanservice after all.

Cosmo Bug an Astro Chat. Space power-up give heroes the ability to fly and exist without oxygen. Ancient grimoire had the recipe of space potion, apparently. And humans got into space in the second half of the 20-th century. Ok. That totally makes sense.

If ancient people invented a space potion, that could also mean that back in Ancient Egypt Ladybug and Black Cat holders could use advanced technology. But Su Han in "Furious Fu" is surprised to discover that Ladybug can just call Chat Noir. He assumed she would send a bird with a message. That means that unconscious control over transformation extends to the weapons of heroes. For Marinette and Adrien communication means smartphone with navigation, messages, trackers and Bluetooth earbuds. That's why magic gives them smart weapons. Su Han's words prove that the invention of the space potion is not possible. Unless space potion was also subjected to unconscious control over transformation. People couldn't imagine the possibility of space travel in Ancient Egypt, but they could imagine flight. So, perhaps, for heroes back then space potion simply meant wings.

We've established that heroes don't need oxygen. So, a potion isn't necessary for this. The ability to fly also could be achieved through conscious transformation.

That's all for this part of analysis. Let me know what you think. Stay tuned for the next meta. See you!

[itsclydebitches]

Reading what you said re: it's not wrong to change a plan, as long as you properly adapt to it and build off cause and effect in a natural meaningful way

The classic MKEK fall-back of "this was planned from the beginning" always feels bad to me, not only because of the ready rebuttal of "if it was, then why was it set up so badly," but also because limiting yourself to a pre-determined plan from the start is actually incredibly stifling as a creative, and ultimately detrimental to your story.

You mention How I Met Your Mother as a good example of how "sticking to the plan" can be bad; so I just want to mention a show that thrived on "let the chips fall where they may," The Office. The actresses who played Pam and Angela have a podcast where they delve into each episode, talking about the behind the scenes aspects, trivia, writing choices, plot points, etc. and one thing that really stuck with me about it is that they didn't plan the ending. Even the famous romance between Pam and Jim was never 'end game' to the writers; they wanted to let the story and characters develop naturally and see where things went, and it felt more real because of it. There are scenes in the early seasons that exist solely because "that was back when they weren't sure if they would redeem Roy and have us get back together or not," or "that was back when they thought maybe Angela and Roy might get together," or "that was when they were thinking that Jim might move on once and for all and be with Karen," and that sort of thing. Pam and Jim is heralded as one of the most well-written romances in television, and it was not planned from the beginning. Another example of a great ship that wasn't end-game from the start is in Parks and Recreation between Leslie and Ben. This absolutely could not have been planned from the start, because Ben wasn't even introduced as a character until the finale of season 2.

I think you're right that a show should be allowed to develop naturally and change their minds about what they do, and I agree 100% that one of the problems with RWBY is that sometimes they'll let the story grow, but then they invariably erase that growth so that they can force in some long-outdated plan that no longer works for the story.

"It was planned from the beginning" is a terrible excuse to ruin your own story and characters, especially if your story is one in which the best parts happened because you went off-script.

All of this. There’s a lot of talk in writing circles about the planning camp vs. let the chips fall camp, but in reality any long-running story is going to need both. One of the challenges is that this combination looks very different depending on the type of story and the type of author(s) involved. There’s perhaps more wiggle room for letting the chips fall in a semi-realistic, character driven comedy series than, say, in a plot-driven action series. “I don’t know yet what sort of relationship these characters will have in three seasons time” is very different from “I don’t know what the situation with the Relics is going to look like in three seasons time.” Whether Pam and Jim get together or not, you still have a good story about their relationship, whatever that may look like. If the Relics are, say, dropped from the show completely, or retconned, or brought together and the characters have to go stupid to not do anything with them because the writers didn’t plan ahead... that’s more of a problem. So it’s this balance between what you’ve thought ahead to and what you need to accommodate. “It was planned from the beginning” can be a horrible way to treat your story if you’re introducing new elements (How I Met Your Mother), but it can also be a fantastic way to treat your story if you’re following that original path (The Good Place). Unplanned elements can be an excellent addition if the author is willing to run with them (Sasha and Tim in The Magnus Archives), or a terrible hinderance if the author is not (Maria and Pietro). Any author needs to be willing to put in that work of figuring out what elements need to be planned, when they can allow the writing to be organic, and once that organic approach reveals something, ensuring that it comes to mean something. 

RWBY feels like it’s failing on both fronts right now. The story as a whole doesn’t feel like it’s appropriately sketched out, like we’re just meandering through new plot points until it’s eventually cancelled, not navigating a broad - but still reliable - structure. We tossed out the school structure post-Volume 3, tossed out the Final Boss Salem structure with her arrival in Volume 7, and now (presumably) have tossed out the Relic structure in Volume 9, falling into a void instead of heading to Vacuo. Yet at the same time, each now plot point that’s introduced has just as much chance of getting tossed aside too. It’s not replacing A plot point with B plot point, it’s replacing it with C, then D, then E F G, sometimes within the same volume. We’ve often said that RWBY has too many cool ideas and that’s a huge part of the problem. 

Salem is here! But Ironwood is the enemy! The gorillas are back! But they don’t do anything! Ozpin is back too and Oscar is upset about it! But torture is the actual problem! Team JYR are here to save him! But that doesn’t matter! Emerald and Hazel are bad guys! But now they’re not! Redemption is compelling! But now he’s dead and she’s a fixture of the group already! Ren is upset about their choices! But now he’s got a semblance upgrade! Nora cares about the people! But now she cares about Amity! Yang fights with Ruby! But now she’s upset about Blake! Penny is framed! But now she’s the Maiden! But now she’s hacked! But now she’s human! But now she’s dead! 

There. is. so. much. going. on. A desire to let the chips fall where they may still requires restraint on the author’s part and a willingness to follow each thread once it reveals itself (unless we’re talking about a story deliberately meant to be meandering, episodic, etc.) As said, there’s nothing wrong with a lack of planning... but that sort of work does require an experienced, talented team to manage. And there is something wrong with making the story so organic that you’re coming up with new ideas every few episodes, not bothering to keep track of what came before this because it will be replaced in another few episodes too. Meanwhile, claiming that it was all “planned from the beginning” in a misguided attempt to make the whole project seem better than it actually is. At this point, RWBY is a revolving door of disjointed, unexplored ideas, held together by confident writers and a fandom inclined to carefully select the parts that do work, ignore/headcanon the rest, and claim that these pieces amount to the whole, planned, ingenious story. 

[denimbex1986]

“...I was actually in LA and it was April 1st...it was April Fools Day and...I was on set working on something, and then, and then this - this unknown number called me...I kept shooting and then, and then an hour or two later, I finally looked at my voicemail and I saw there was a voicemail there...I clicked on it and it was Kevin...he was like: “Hey Sebastian, we were trying to reach you. Just wanted to let you know we’d love, you know, we’d love to do this with you, we’d love you to play James Bucky Barnes...”...it was a really crazy day - it was a really, really crazy day...it was a really nice call.”

“...I knew going into it, you know, that it was gonna be a show that was gonna really double down on the relationship with Anthony and the dynamic that we sort of started to establish...and a different sort of path for this character than we’ve seen so far, and I just  - I just to get there in an, in an organic way that felt earned...it wasn’t, to me, a journey that we could just immediately *snaps fingers* overnight just get him to be all all free and open and cracking jokes...the humour about Bucky came out of this, you know like - he’s like an old guy  trapped in a world that’s moving very fast...and with Anthony too, they just really were an odd couple...but it was nice to get him to that place for sure...”

“...When I signed on for the role...Marvel was very new...nobody was saying like, “By the way, for the next ten years of your life, you’re gonna just be doing it.”..it was just sort of like “Hey, this is an interesting character that’s going - that’s the path, and wouldn’t it be great if maybe we get to do that? But anyway, we gotta start here, so it’s a day at a time.””

“...we just sort of clicked and kind of spent time together, and then we had done the press tour for The Winter Soldier movie - spent a lot of time together - and so, it just kind of evolved. I, I, I mean that scene was written as is - and we got in the car and we said the lines as they were written on the page, and then I guess the rest is what came out of - (laughs) his, his take on it and my take on it...”

“...we’re very different I think as people in a lot of ways, like, but like, but like, we want the same things and...we approach things the same way and we care the same...we are odd in, in a lot of ways...there’s a natural combustion that comes from that, because - and I play into it, and he plays into it and we have a lot of fun...I remember like being on that press tour with him and going: ‘Oh my God, like, I gotta hang on - I’m on a rollercoaster with this fucking lunatic...’...and then I got better at it and I was like, ‘Okay, like, we’re gonna have fun...’...he broke me out of my shell in a lot of ways, you know, made me a lot more comfortable in, in I guess taking things not so seriously all the time...”

“...I’m just happy that the relationship is embraced, and it should be embraced in whatever way, fashion, in any way that people decide that they want it to be. That’s what - that’s what I love about movies, and, and tv shows and the theatre and this - this form of expression, right - is that, that, that you can have; you know, someone can see the same movie or the same thing as you and have an entirely different experience, and find something within themselves that’s true and honest and relatable. I think, you know, my goal has always been to, to, to do, to, you know with this role, with that relationship, with anything I’ve approached, to, to just try and find - be as honest as I possibly can-  and, and then the rest is not up to me...I don’t strive to put some, you know, mark on, on that, it isn’t my mark - I’m just the actor, the; I’m not the writer, you know, I - I’m not - and I’m certainly not the creator here, you know - I’m sort of the messenger, if you will...I’ve always approached that relationship as, as being very close and, and one of family, you know - that was my take to it, you know, but - and, and those characters are very interlinked because they are the only thing they have to remind them of a past that no longer exists...these guys are actually experiencing something extremely traumatic - if you’re actually looking at the truth of their experience...you’re talking about two people that are like entirely ripped from the world, thrown into another and are just doing their best to make the right decisions - and all they have is each other; to look to each other and that journey is what it is, you know, but is it love? For sure it’s love - however you want to define that love is up to you...”

“...you should be asking the fans, and you know,  everyone's got different interpretations; well, let them have it.”

“...when the job is over, like, I’m out...I don’t care how you view it, like, it’s yours; it belongs to you now...I don’t actually spend time like, thinking like, you know, ‘What - what, how’s it gonna be taken?’ or whatever, because I have no control over that...let it be what it is, you know, and let it, let it be - let it be all these things...the magic of it to me is that it can be anything you want it to be...let’s live it - let it live as it will and how you want it...”

“...I don’t understand why like people are so obsessed with like, spoiling things now...it used to be fun when you didn’t know what was gonna happen...I still believe in that beauty of the - of the mystery of, of something, you know, and, and, and, and sometimes it’s the emotional reaction to it rather than the, the you know, the analytical, like, analysis of it that’s more impactful.”

“...I remember I sent that photo to Craig - Gillespie, our director, months ago, when - after I found out about the role...I was like; ’This is what we’re heading into’, and - and it just sort of stuck...it’s such a wild picture...we were doing the screen test and...we just did it and, and then, suddenly that was the picture that was (laughs) out there.”

“...this is what’s required, and that’s what you do...the goal is always to, you know, approach everything as honest as possible...as actors, yeah, you’ve gotta, you’ve gotta, I don’t know, you gotta keep being scared and afraid of things; you gotta keep doing things that are not  - you know, that are gonna take you out of your comfort zone and sort of, you know, push you further...that’s sort of what I’m trying to do, I guess; that’s kind of what I gravitate to more and more, especially as I get older...you’re always learning, you’re always trying to - you’re always kind of a detective of life and of characters and people.., it becomes bigger than just like you and, you know, what you look like and stuff....my favourite actors that I always see, you know, like are just always doing very kind of scary things; they’re always just challenging and pushing themselves...it’s much better to be scared than to sort of just know what you’re getting into day after day...”

“...it was freeing to, to like, it was nice because I was walking around in these hoodies and like, kind of like hats...I was like paranoid of being, you know, I couldn’t even, like, even do these interviews, like just paranoid of being seen in this thing, and I was like: ‘God I finally hope that they’re gonna finally release something that, that we can be like: ‘’Okay, now you see what - what this is looking; you know, what we look like so we can keep - keep going with out lives’, you know, but, but yeah, it was nice to see the reception, for sure.”

“...as long as they’ll keep calling, I’m there...I’m just like going for the ride, you know?”

“...you get to go and play a character for such a long period of time...it’s like gaining a family member...like a brother or something, you know, in this case like for me, because you get to see this character again and again, and then you’re always like growing up as - and they’re sort of growing up with you...”

“...it’s taxing...it’s part of like staying in shape I guess for these things...something that looks very effortless and cool probably took about a month of work - it’s never like you see it...”

“...on the FIRST day, we, we shot episode 5 at the very beginning of the shoot, and that’s the boat, you know when - when I go and I help him on the boat, and day 1, the first day on set, I’m like jumping off this dock onto the boat to help him, and I just landed and twisted my ankle so badly that I thought it was broken, like, I actually couldn’t walk on it...that took about a week and a half to two weeks of, of sort of like, masking this limp that I had...towards Christmas, I ended up breaking my toe, like the little toe...episode 3 has this whole sequence where I’m, you know, in Madripoor, with Daniel Bruhl and, and Mackie...I’m like pretending to be the Winter Soldier...I had to do that whole action sequence, and, my toe - you can’t do anything with a broken toe...I did that whole thing with a broken toe and I was dying. And of course, the entire time, you know, keeping the best stoic looking face ever.”

“...how it happened was as classically human as it all comes...I’m going to pee in the middle of the night...on my way back, of course I’m just like closer to the wall, you know, looking for the bed, basically almost there and just ram it right into the corner of the wall, And I’m like ‘Oh my God’ and of course too tired to even realise that; I’m like ‘Ah  that’s gonna be fine tomorrow’ - and the next day I woke up and I couldn’t walk. So that’s how that happened - not a cool superhero way to do it...”

“...I would basically like, run upstairs and then like, two people would help me out of this boot and then I’d just take my foot and just put it in - in a bucket of ice basically and just ice it the entire time until they were setting up the next shot, and then quickly take it out, put the boot back on, go out there, kick someone through a - the wooden table and then, and then, you know, repeat the cycle...”

“...I might have used the other foot, I can’t remember...it was on my left foot, which is my actually my stronger foot; like I’m more of a leftie when it comes to, I guess, legs and kicks...people have gone through a lot worse, you know, so it’s, it’s like not something to cry about; you just cry later when you’re alone.” (laughs)

“...you end up in that thing of like “Really, like why?” Like, it, it just becomes that - it just becomes that sort of like, “Why is this happening?” kind of thing...”

“...The only person I told was my good friend and stunt man John Nania - like, I - that’s - that’s who I told. I said to him, like in between, I was like: “Dude, just so you know, like, I can barely walk.” And like, he was like, “Just keep going, don’t worry about it.” I’m like: “I’m not telling anybody because they’re gonna freak out and they’re gonna take me out of the - the whole sequence, and then you’re never gonna think it’s me.” But they let me do, they - they actually let, let me do quite a bit which was really nice...it’s long hours, and, and, and it’s true - there’s a lot of preparation...you just have to kind of laugh about it a little bit, you have to find the humour in it...things don’t always go as planned and, and sometimes like there’s like weird godsends with that...”

“...Wyatt Russell is such a good actor...he’s maybe one of the best human beings I’ve ever met. I mean, I just, honestly like, he became a friend and, and I just champion him...he took this character and to me it’s just like one of the most interesting performances that I feel like I’ve seen...he would sort of take him in all these different places, and like - so in that sequence, it really felt earned, you know, that like John Walker was finally gonna get it, you know, and, and he - and he was really gonna be out of his element and, and way out of his field, and, and that we were gonna get to enjoy that happening...”

“...it worked like, like a magic trick...we had this crazy arm that was beautifully constructed...I sort of wrapped mine around and, and they were like, ‘Yeah, you just take it and you know, like, you just put it in there’...I actually had my arm like, in the arm...I took the prop arm and just put it and then kind of twisted and just dropped it and then just kind of pulled mine back around...it was really much more sort of a Texas switch than anything...in the comic books actually, he does, he - he can take his arm out and just, you know, he sometimes he tosses it out like a shield and it comes back, and like attaches like immediately right back into place...”

“...I think honestly about five months later I almost had the same thing happen to the other foot. And I was like ‘No’...it lasts - it lasts for a while...I had that over Christmas, New Year’s...I think it like a good was a good six weeks where I was still feeling that little toe, and I’m like ‘Damn, man - can’t do anything.’”

[princeescaluswords]

What is your opinion on the 'Alpha Liam' plot in 6a? It seemed as though they built him up to be the leader at the end of 6a but then just dropped the entire plot line in 6b.

I want to be clear that Teen Wolf is my favorite show.  When you have a favorite show you have to recognize the problems with it.  In this case, I recognize that after 3B, while the show still had great characterizations, great performances, and great ideas, it also had, on the other hand, significant problems with what you might call the back end.   In my opinion, the writing, directing, and editing weren’t terrible -- in fact sometimes they were brilliant -- but they were often uncoordinated.  People other than me have talked about the bewildering number of writers involved, the wavering attention of the show runner, and the inept hand of the network when it came to casting and scheduling.  This led to uneven pacing, plots spiraling off into nowhere, fan service in place of character development, and often audience members were left with the feeling that there were entire episodes and scenes which they never got to see and should have.

Nothing, to me, encapsulates this more than 6A, where Dylan O’Brien’s accident on the set of his movie threw filming schedules into disarray and limited the time he had on the set of a season focused on him.  This must have contributed to the chaos.  There’s a reason we got endless shots of menacing soul cowboys instead of scenes tying the actions of the different cast members together.  Did it ever feel like to you that there were three separate stories (Finding Stiles with Malia, Scott, and Lydia; Bad Men Manipulating with Douglas, Theo, and Peter; and Ghost Riders Ghost Ridering)?  

You asked about Liam’s Alpha Arc in 6A.  There were reasons I loved it but, as I mentioned before there were scenes that I thought had to be there that simply weren’t.  And it did recede into the background in 6B.  So the simply answer to my question is: my opinion is mixed.   I’ll list what I liked and why I liked it, and what I didn’t like and why I didn’t like it.

WHAT I LIKED:

People, Not Power.  Did you notice that Liam’s substitute alpha arc never made that big of a deal of the idea that Liam wouldn’t have the red eyes of an alpha?  Liam stepping up had nothing to do with how much power he possessed.  The crisis presented was about whether he would be able to lead others and whether others would follow him, summed up in this line: “Well, Coach doesn't want me. I don't know if the team wants me."   The arc was never a matter of being able to punch the bad guys (It never was), it was about whether people would have faith in Liam.  As Scott put it, the key to that was Liam having faith in himself, exemplified in Relics (6x04) when Liam storms off to go catch a Ghost Rider and Hayden, Mason, and Corey follow him because he believes he can do it.

Scott Isn’t Obligated to Beacon Hills.  I wish it had been made more explicit, but other than that one scene in Memory Lost (6x01), there was never any implication that Scott’s going to college was abandonment of his responsibilities or that he was forcing Liam to take his place.  Even in that scene, Stiles was worried about whether people would be hurt without both of them being there.  The key is the scene when Hayden wondered what was going to happen with Scott gone, and Liam says “I can be the alpha.”  It was humorous, but it also made clear that Scott wasn’t dumping this on Liam.  Scott became an alpha in order to help people but the show never implied that once he decided that, he couldn’t do anything else.  In fact, the show had several scenes with the exact opposite intent.  It’s the same with Liam.  Liam wants to help people, so he becomes the alpha.

No Territory, No Law.  Carrying on from the above point, the arc empathized that supernatural life wasn’t separated from human life.  The alpha of a werewolf pack was in no way like a feudal lord.  Scott’s pack was a group tied together by emotion and purpose.  There was no hierarchy or review committee they had to answer to.  There were no rites or requirements to be alpha other than being a werewolf and having a pack that followed you.  Satomi or the Primal didn’t challenge Liam’s suitability, because, not only was the idea of being separate not present, it was rejected.

WHAT I DIDN’T LIKE:

It Was a Test Balloon.  I think that a lot of the way they handled Liam’s alpha arc was to see if they could continue the show by shifting the focus to Liam.  I wouldn’t have minded it, but they tested it by separating Liam, Hayden, Mason and Corey from Scott, Lydia, and Malia to see if they had enough chemistry to work.  Either have confidence in your story or don’t.  

Mason and Hayden Got Screwed.  The only character who got to explore why he would follow Liam as alpha was Corey.  Mason’s relationship -- suffering, in my opinion, since they turned Mason into the Human Excuse Machine in The Last Chimera (5x11) -- with Liam was taken as a given.  Hayden’s relationship  was also taken as a given, but she was also restricted to just that relationship.  She couldn’t have a scene with Scott, her alpha?  Or Malia or Lydia?  Or a plotline of her own?   By taking Mason’s and Hayden’s support for granted, they meant to get the audience on the side of seeing Liam as alpha, but that actually undermined it.  Do you know why Mason and Hayden were willing to follow him beyond that’s what friends and lovers are supposed to do?  I don’t.

Effin’ Theo.  By making Liam’s first independent decision bringing back the person who convinced him to try to murder his alpha without talking to anyone else -- and Noshiko doesn’t count, because her objections were moot -- they let the premise of the season and Dylan O’Brien’s problems get in the way.  If they had had Liam propose it to Scott before they left for Canaan or on the frickin’ phone, if Scott had said “Convince me” BEFORE Liam had done the deed, it wouldn’t  have changed the way Theo’s arc or Liam’s arc played out, but it would have scrapped that dumbass line “you made mistakes when you were learning to be an alpha!”  (Yes, he did make mistakes, but that doesn’t make what Liam did not callous bullshit).  The problem, of course, was talking about it before hand would have necessitated an actual conversation about the library, and Teen Wolf was always weirdly and obsessively allergic to Scott talking about his trauma.  

And my thoughts on why I didn’t like is where your observation comes in -- where did this arc go in 6B?  The problem with Liam’s alpha arc in 6B is that in 6A they made it so independent of Scott that it couldn’t progress while Scott was still in Beacon Hills.  They tried to fix that with the scenes in Scott’s bedroom and Liam’s bedroom, where Scott mentors Liam, but they had also decided that they weren’t going to continue the show, so the motivation to spend more time on it was gone. In addition, Corey’s reluctance to be involved was solved, Hayden had left, and Mason had never objected to anything Liam did ever, so there was nothing to do with establishing his leadership with them.  Liam bringing Theo back without getting Scott’s input meant that there was nothing to do with Liam making calls unless they wanted to make Theo evil again and force Liam to work with that.  The arc had gone as far as it could, but it felt like it hadn’t, because we didn’t get certain scenes.  

So, as I observed at the beginning -- all the parts were there, but they couldn’t make them fit.

[armysantiny]

NCT Dream: Their s/o is passionate about working out

Pairing: ot7 x gender neutral reader // NCT (Dream)

Genre: fluff, humour, headcanon

Includes: going to the gym, teasing, watching a drama, workout schedules, bribing with coffee, exhaustion, 

Word count: 1.59k

Warning: I swear like, once or twice lol, Chenle’s one talks about dieting for a moment

Rating: PG

Networks: @kwritersworld, @kdiarynet, @kpopscape, @ultkpopnetwork, @kpopcontentcreatorsclub, @k-dinernet, @lovesick-net, @whipped-kpop-creators, @kafenetwork, @ficscafe, @dreamwritersnet, @neoswitchnet, @nct-writers

Tagging: @teeztheflag, @the-rooftop-fight, @cherry-hyejin || Taglist Form

An: I had fun writing this lol. I would pay good money to watch this happen irl- members under the cut! Oh yeah - @alicanta77​ more Jeno!

마크 (Mark)

Something about Mark tells me that he’d be kinda chill about it? You know?

As long as you’re enjoying it, he’s happy

And you’re getting healthier for yourself, so nice!

Flirty (or attempts at flirting lol) comments whenever you come out of the shower

And then you suggest going to the gym together

Not that he doesn’t want to

But he’s seen your workout routine

Safe to say this boy is intimidated

“Wait, wait, wait - go with you?”

Mark doesn’t mind working out

In fact, it’s quite relaxing

But he knows you’re very strict with your sets

He will be sore in the morning if he tried to keep up with you

Tries to bribe you with coffee-

Doesn’t work and you (lightly) drag his arse to the gym

Safe to say he is tired when you two get back

You get out of the shower and you can see this guy knocked the fuck out on the sofa

Let the teasing begin~

Poking at his chest and giggling when he pulls you into his chest

“Markie~ you’re not tired already, are you?”

Doesn’t reply, but sleepily smiles and ruffles your hair

Soft :(

런쥔 (Renjun)

Oh God, this is going to be fun

Renjun doesn’t really go to the gym unless he has to, or really wants to

So he doesn’t mind that you enjoy going to the gym

Bettering yourself, good for you, you know?

But dear God when you mention that you want him to join you

Yeah...good luck with that one

Will come up with every excuse under the sun

This mf really tries pulling the ‘I’m a foreigner, I don’t know Korean that well’ card on you

Like he doesn’t know how to speak Korean- (probably better than you too lol smh)

You kinda just deadpan him and he drags himself to get ready

Whining! Every! Single! Second

From start to finish I swear, Renjun complains constantly omg

When you two get home, the sigh of relief he lets out is loud

“Come on Junnie~ it wasn’t that bad!”

“Babe, I am going to die - how will you make this up to me?”

You come out of the shower after he’s already done and find him pretending to be asleep

“Well, if you’re asleep, I guess I’ll watch the new episode on my own”

Gets up immediately

No way you’re watching it without him

“Oh? I thought you were dying? Looks like you’re fine now~” 

Rolls his eyes but he’s smiling

Hugs you and you two catch up on your drama

Cute :(

제노 (Jeno

Considering Jeno seems like the kinda guy to really enjoy working out, I think he’d really like that about you

Like, you’re his gym partner and his romantic partner, what’s there not to love?

That’s probably how you two met each other-

Loves comparing your workout schedules

This time though, Nono wanted to give your workout routine a go

“Are you sure baby?”

Not that you didn’t think he could do it, you just didn’t want him to be too sore to practice the next day

But he’s stubborn lol, and you just oblige

It’s honestly so cute

You’re not even halfway done and he’s already starting to have second thoughts

Thing is, you made it seem easier than it actually was 

Obviously you’re feeling a burn from working out, but Jeno is struggling

Takes multiple breaks before you’ve had your first break

You get home and Jeno is already feeling the effects

Laughs when you tease him about it

“How...how do you make it look so easy?”

“Practice~”

Denies that he’ll be sore in the morning and you just shake your head

You wake up in the morning and dear God he can’t move

“Don’t say it...”

“Say what? That I told you so? Okay, I won’t~”

동혁 (Donghyuck)

Oh Imma enjoy this one

As much as Hyuck loves that you enjoy working to better yourself

Do not get that man anywhere within 10ft of a gym

Literally only goes to work out when he has a schedule

Otherwise, you’ll never see him suggest going

So to who or whatever possessed him to jokingly suggest that he should join you in the gym

This guy has some choice words - possibly some swearing involved, who knows?

His dramatic ass will literally put on some over-the-top denial when he sees the smile on your face

Hyuck knows that smile

“Come on hyuck, it won’t be that bad!”

“Oh but it will. Y/n, do you want to kill your boyfriend?”

“Oh stop whining you~, you only have to do it just this once~”

You have to bribe him with his favourite food before he even considers going

And even then, it takes him forever to get ready and go

You’re already on your way and he still tries to weasel his way out of it

Because holy shit your workout is intense

Is dying 

Remember when fullsun here had to carry Jeno and he screamed because Jeno was taking the piss out of him?

Yeah - he does that

This mf really tries asking you to carry him when you get home

You do it anyway-

When you carry him bridal-style, he wraps his arms around your neck and ‘swoons’

“My knight in shining armour~”

Cue rolling your eyes at him, but smiling because you love this man too much to be annoyed

Gosh he’s a brat child sometimes but you love him

재민 (Jaemin)

Heyy, 1/2 of my Dream biases, let’s go!

We’ve all seen Jaemin reveal his abs right?

This man is fit-

So obviously, he does work out a fair bit

If not with you, then definitely with Nono

But let’s be real-

Jaemin is literally the least competitive person ever - if not just for NCT

Cannot and will not compete for anything even if his life depended on it

So when you ask him if he wants to join you on a workout session while you’re about to sleep and he agrees-

You’re surprised

Then again, he’s just so tired (poor bby) that he’s barely registering what you’re saying

Until you remind him the following day

Sighs as he drinks his first of many coffees he’ll have

He wants to try and weasel out of it

But you’re giving him puppy eyes and oh gosh you’re adorable oh noo

He can’t say no :(

When ou two start, oh good lord his respect for your dedication increases tenfold

You do this five times a week?

His body hurts in ways he didn’t know he could hurt

Hits you with his ‘sexy~’ when you get out of the shower

Pretends to take pictures of you

“There we go! My star model show me those angles!”

Laughing fits

Even if you’re both sore (Jaemin more so), y’all are so cute

Gimme this please

천러 (Chenle)

Okay Daegal’s dad you’re up next!

I feel like Chenle really encourages you to keep up with your workout schedule

Probably helps with the dietary requirements that come along with it

Supportive boyfriend over here

We live to see it

Enough getting sidetracked, let’s continue

You’d be sitting together for breakfast and its workout day

This man’s curiosity gets the better of him and he asks if he could join you

He’s always been interested in exactly what exercises you do to stay is such great shape

When you go into detail, Lele kinda sits there wide-eyed for a moment

Granted, he works out too to stay healthy but damn your workout is intense

No wonder your body is as muscular/toned as it is

Be he would be lying to himself and you if he said that it didn’t intimidate him

You could probably throw him with little effort-

When you two do get to the gym, oh dear God is Chenle already exhausted

How do you manage to keep up with it?

Scratch that - exhausted doesn’t even begin to describe how he feels

You get home and Chenle is just...dead

Takes a shower and refuses to move once he gets in bed

Prepare to drag his ass out of bed the next day - he aint going anywhere

지성 (Jisung)

This is going to be interesting! Also 2nd Dream bias!

Of course, since Jisung hasn’t revealed his abs, we don’t know exactly how defined he is

But I think it’s safe to assume that Jisung is pretty well built

And he finds it really cool that you’re so dedicated you are to your workout routine

But dear God this kid doesn’t want to work out if he can help it

As much as he loves you, he would be a dirty liar if he said that you don’t intimidate him from time to time

You could probably bench press Jisung without thinking about it

Okay - I’m exaggerating, but you get the point

Kinda like Hyuck, whatever possessed this kid to ask you if he could join you must of had it in for him that day

You smirk, he realises what he just said and starts backing up

“Wait, wait, wait - let’s talk about this!”

“Uh uh, you suggested it JiJi. Come on, it won’t be that bad”

He kinda just goes -_-

Not bad? Not bad for you, you mean-

Does anything - and I mean literally anything - to get out of it

When you aren’t buying it, he deflates  and joins you

Is going through it by the time the two of you are halfway

Send help lol

You get home and he’s like “Yeah - never doing that again.”

Help this child lol

[handonhaven]

So a few things popped into my head, and will most likely stay there for a while.

1. This whole long hair thing with Landon. I refuse to believe they went through all that trouble just for a ten second scene. I believe they did all of that because we're gonna get a flashback episode so we can find out what happened to Landon and how malivore ended up possessing him. And I think this because I like to thing that episodes Aria wasn't in at the beginning of the season/or episodes he was in only a scene or two that's when he was filming the flashback episode. Because sometimes they do film episodes out of order for whatever reason. And I will go on believing this until October when I'm either proven wrong or hopefully proven right.

2. When this thought popped into my head I got mad and sad all at the same time. Because this is now the second time they've separated Handon from each other for months at a time. NOT once but twice they did that. First with Hope jumping into malivore and everyone forgetting her. So the whole summer and a couple months into the new school year they were away from each other. Then again when Landon ended up in malivore. So they were separated again for another two, two half months maybe. I refuse to believe it's any long than that. Since seasons 2&3 are one school year. My reasons for thinking that is because the season 2 final(3x04) was Handons 1 year anniversary and they started dating about half way through the first school in season 1. But anyways I don't I'll ever be able to forgive the writers for doing that to them. Just like I don't think I'll ever forgive them for giving us a whole season without the real Landon.

3. So I have this theory. So you know how there's been this pattern the last two season finals with either Hope getting separated from Landon or Landon getting separated from Hope. Well I think if they keep up with that pattern then the real season 3 final will be Handon getting separated from everyone else. I'm not sure how or why it'll happen but I think it might. But I like to think that when they get malivore out of Landon, Handon leaves to follow some type of leave. Or maybe Clarke does what he tends to always do and he screws them over and they somehow end up in the prison world or trapped in a alternate reality(I think that could be fun to see).

4. What is up with people trying to say that Landon is dead just because malivore is possessing his body. That's not how possession works, the person doesn't just die because someone takes over their body. That's never happened in the history of posseson in the TVDU(or any other show I've seen). And if Landon was really "dead" then what would be the point of those Handon flashbacks during that inspirion scene? I mean come out is peoples dislike and misplaced hatred for Landon run that deep and they'll try to come up with anything just to kill him off? You know what let me not good down that rabbit hole.

5. Okay I don't mind maliLandon being a thing for now. But I just don't want it to last very long. Because I want to real Landon back. And for him to finally be out of pain(again I don't think I'll forgive the writers for putting him through that). I know malivore will be more active in season four but just let it be in a different body not Landons. After this season I want him to be done going through trauma for a long while(and Hope) like just give him half a season with nothing bad happening to him or even a whole season with nothing bad happening to him. I know the chances of that happening are very slim but I can dream can't I.

6. So I saw this theory and I'm not sure how they came up with that or even if they were kidding. But they think that Ethan might be one of Malivore kids. I don't think that's the case, I truly believe that Ethan is just human. I feel like he couldn't be one of malivore's kids because he can be compelled and because his mom was never erased from peoples mind. And Landon can't even before he activated his powers back in season 1. And honestly I just want Ethan to be the one human teenager on the show. I know this show is about supernaturals but that's doesn't mean every character we met should be or has to be supernatural. But maybe that's me. Any thoughts on this theory?

7. You know I wouldn't be agaisnt seeing more of malivore's kids. We know for a fact that Landon is the youngest and last kid malivore had(at least we know that as a fact as of right now. They might change their minds about that). And Clarke is the oldest out of all his childrens. But what about the others kids malivore had. Are any of them still alive and if they are where are they? Are they all like Clarke personality wise or are some of them like Landon? I don't know I feel like that could be fun and nice storyline to do at some point if they ever decide to.

8. I feel like triad might be making a come back for next season. Because this season triad was mention a quite a few times. So maybe they'll come back into play next season. Like maybe MG finds out about another facility from his mom or something.

Wow that got longer than I meant too lol. Came here to talk about 3 things and ended up talking about eight. Lol my mind just got the better of me and I just needed to keep going.

I’ve thought the same thing. If they really pinned his hair back for all those months just for that one brief scene, I’m gonna laugh. Because why on earth would they go to all that effort for a small detail like that? It’s not like they’ve been consistent or realistic about other little things like that, so it had to have been for flashbacks. And my thoughts exactly. I had also wondered if that’s why he wasn’t in 3x14 or 3x15, because apparently, some contracts require the actors to have episodes off (which was why he wasn’t in 2x14 I guess). So if he had been filming flashbacks earlier on, maybe that’s why they were required to give him time off during 3x14/3x15? But it would make sense if he had filmed back during like 3x07 or something when his hair was long. That’s really what I’m hoping. And yeah, if we don’t get it in October, I’m gonna cry.

Ugh, yep. I realized that as well, they separate them every season. The writers are cruel. Yeah, literally, it’s like every summer/into the new school year! And yes, I’m not sure exactly how long with Landon though, but it would’ve had to have been at least a couple months? But the whole timeline for season 3 has made no sense. I had thought season 1 started in like February or something, since the twins’ birthday is in March (1x06), so I figured Handon got together like middle/end of March (1x08). Then Hope would’ve jumped into Malivore around April/May, then we got a new school year throughout season 2. But then 3x04 is when it gets confusing, because I figured that was probably around April, since 2x15 would’ve been mid-March because it was the twins’ birthday again. But then with 3x05, they had the “3 weeks later” and then in 3x06, it seemed like a new school year was suddenly starting? And not long after, they were dressing for colder weather in coats and stuff, so what happened to the summer? They should’ve just said “3 months later” in 3x05, that would’ve made sense. So I have no idea what time of year it is in the show now. Some people thought it was spring again because of some posters at the high school? So who knows how long Landon was actually gone, I’m confused... sorry to go off on a tangent about the timeline haha. But anyway, they’ve still been separating Handon every season for way too long, and it’s terrible. I don’t think I can forgive them either, and same thing with Landon! I still can’t believe we went almost an entire season without him! I’ll never be over it.

Ooh, interesting... okay, I would actually love that haha. If they’re gonna be separated again, let it be together. I’ll take it! But yeah, it could happen. Maybe something will go wrong or they’ll get screwed over, but they’d be together this time around. But I feel like them ending up in a prison world again would be so repetitive, but I wouldn’t even be surprised haha. I think it would be fun to see too though. I had actually thought that might happen in 3x04 when they both were in the prison world, but that did not last long. But who knows, it’d be nice to see something different though, but I’m not sure what other alternate reality they could end up in. But I’m sure the writers could come up with something. Even if it was like a chambre de chasse or something where they had to be put in one of those for whatever reason, that would also be nice because they could get a break and be together that way. I think as long as they’re together and not separated from each other again, I’ll be happy (I think haha). And if they could finally have a break on top of that and be able to recover after everything, that would be ideal.

And I have no idea. Exactly, have they not seen the rest of TVDU? That didn’t happen, and I don’t think I’ve seen that happen in other shows either. So true, we saw Landon’s memories in that scene, that came from Landon so he can’t be gone. Yeah, those people are just so desperate for him to be gone, they’ll try to come up with anything to give themselves hope. They thought he was dead for good after he was stabbed by the golden arrow too. And after they spent an entire season showing how much Hope loves Landon, idk how anyone could possibly think they’re just gonna get rid of him.

I’m a bit torn when it comes to Malilandon. Because on the one hand, I feel it needs to last a significant amount of time. They’ve been building up to it since season 1, this is the main villain of the show finally achieving his goal (part of it anyway), so it’s a huge deal. And I feel they shouldn’t rush through it, plus Aria does such an amazing job, I want to see more of him playing that. But on the other hand, I need Landon back now. I want him out of pain too because I cannot believe all that the writers have put him through. I just want him to be okay again. And one of the issues as well is that he has been possessed for a long time, at least a few weeks now, maybe even a month or so, but they didn’t show it when I feel they should have. But I feel like they could make up for that by showing flashbacks of what Malivore has been up to all this time, and that way we would see more Malilandon, but they could get Malivore out of Landon sooner without it feeling too rushed and like we hadn’t seen as much of Malilandon maybe? Idk, them keeping Landon’s time in the prison world and Malilandon a secret made for some good plot twists, but I’m not sure it was worth it tbh. Because now there could be problems with us not seeing as much of that as we should. I would’ve preferred them letting the audience know what was going on with Landon and showing it throughout the season, while still keeping the other characters in the dark. But yes, if Malivore is still a big part of season 4, he had better not be in Landon anymore. I can’t imagine he will be though. And I completely agree, they better leave Landon alone after this. He and Hope shouldn’t have to go through anymore trauma at all, but at the very least, they need a break. True though, unfortunately, I don’t think they’ll let them have a whole season without something bad happening either.

I can’t see Ethan being one of Malivore’s kids. I think, besides Landon obviously, most of Malivore’s children would be pretty old. And they’ve implied throughout the whole show that Landon is the one child of his that was actually born, which took a very long time for him to achieve. I just can’t imagine he would’ve done that twice around the same time since Ethan and Landon are probably around the same age? At least within a couple years of each other? Plus you’re right about the compulsion thing too, that’s a big giveaway. And also, I think his mom would’ve mentioned something about it, like how Seylah knew, if that had happened. But she wasn’t at all aware of anything supernatural before. So if that ended up being true, that would be extremely weird I think, and would feel very forced and out of nowhere. And I’d like for Ethan to stay a human too. True, I feel like they could bring more humans into the show without everyone being supernatural, so it might be a nice change to have a human as one of the mains.

I’ve thought about that too, and I don’t think I’d mind seeing other children of Malivore either, as long as it was done well, of course. Because yeah, what happened to the rest of them? It’d be very interesting to see if there are others who are still around and if they also hate Malivore and want him gone, or if there are some who would side with him. That could make for some good new characters or villains. And if there were some who were good like Landon, I’d like to see Landon interact with them and maybe have some sort of sibling relationship with them too. So I agree, there’s definitely potential for some cool storylines.

Yeah that could be true. They really just kinda dropped triad after season 1. Where did they all go? They’re still out there somewhere so you’d think they’d go back to that at some point. And yes, something could happen with MG and his mom. And also, is he not curious what happened to his mom and the rest of triad? You’d think they’d try to find out what’s going on with them after what happened when they’ve supposedly disappeared. So yeah, I’d say there’s a chance they’ll bring triad back at some point.

Haha, I feel that though. There’s just too much that goes on in this show, it’s easy to go on about it.