#but rhaenyra’s characterisation in the show is SO DUMB

[artcinemas]

show! rhaenyra is kind of a prissy compared to book! rhaenyra. i said what i said like i cannot even consider show! rhaenyra as rhaenyra anymore 😭😭

[lemonhemlock]

It’s very amusing that Condal clearly wants to adapt AFFC, and how people eat it up despite it not being earned. AFFC was the fourth book of the series, after the beheading of Ned, Winterfell falling, Jaime losing his hand, the Red Wedding, the Purple Wedding. All the reasons for why the War of the Five Kings is over, all those people are either dead or scattered to the wind, and yet the war rages on. It’s a pointless war that characters we have grown to know and love undergo intense changes in, notably Jaime and Brienne as they wander through the Riverlands, Arya in Braavos, Sam on the edge of despair as he journeys south. Frankly? Considering that the Dance hasn’t even properly started yet and no one cares about the deaths that have occurs (Luke, Jaehaerys, Rhaenys) the sheer fatalism feels unearned bc no one has gone through gut wrenching tragedy yet. “War is pointless.” Great, but we got another two seasons of this and if the characters think this story is dumb and pointless and are just going through the motions, why should we watch? It’s frankly just too early for everyone to lose their shit bc they haven’t even begin to truly lose everything yet. The characters themselves thinking it’s pointless robs them of motivations bc we still got more than half the story to go! Criston’s monologue in the finale is good but that’s because it’s directly cribbed from Jaime’s “honor is mist” speech but it’s not nearly as earned bc we don’t have any idea how or why he started sleeping with Alicent or even why he became a kingsguard in the first place! Daemon’s Harrenhal arc ended with him somehow obsessed with a prophecy and connecting it back to Rhaenyra without him coming to terms with Viserys not trusting him with the prophecy which is what he was mad about in the first place!

We never actually see anyone react to anything, and the limping plodding along of character development happening off screen so we never see how or why anyone changes is not good! Episode 7 actually gave me some hope bc Rhaenyra seemed to be embracing her role as a leader of there’s dragonriders the gods have given her, but in the next episode she’s literally saying the exact same lines “what would you have me do” and “who will pay the price” which she said at the start of the season! Even Alicent’s about face is unearned bc we don’t actually see her truly fight with her children about anything, really. She just lets them talk in her face and then limps away to camp in a scene that’s “all about rebirth bc baptism and water” without ever getting to the core of anything. It’s a beautiful show full of empty symbolism without a narrative actually underpinning it, borrowing from a better story without understanding what makes that story so good.

You said it more eloquently than I could at the moment. It's not just one or two badly executed points, nothing gets built up, nothing gets resolved or even discussed, we just skip past A TON of vital characterisational changes and are expected to "fill in the gaps". No, they're just bad at writing. You wouldn't be reading a book or watching a show that is so bad at these elements - people are watching because it's ASOIAF.

Why is Alicent so mad? Aegon has barely done anything as king, he's actually tried to help the smallfolk in his audiences! Aemond dismissed her from the Council, sure, which I found a dumb political plot hole, but she hasn't done much to address it? And what exactly has Criston Cole done all season that he is the most reprehensible male character on the show? He didn't vote for Alicent and called her by her name. Does he deserve to die for that? Has Alicent ever been portrayed as the type of character who would react so disproportionately? That's Aemond-level writing. Is Alicent = Aemond now? (She isn't even shown being mad at Criston for sending Arryk after Rhaenyra!)

What Alicent is shown to have a problem with is Aemond burning Aegon. But then again why abandon Aegon to be executed by Rhaenyra? Just overdose him on milk of the poppy and let him die, ffs. Alicent also suspects Criston is not telling her about Aemond's crime, but they part on okay terms? She gives him her favour? How do you go from that to dooming him by revealing his coordinates?

I would really like to pile on-to the AFFC copycat accusations* with Succession rip-offs (my followers are probably tired of hearing me mention it, but it's truly what prestige television should be and it's what we should be comparing HotD to!). First it was teenage!Aegon wanking in the window à la Roman Roy, then Alicent suddenly gets water symbolism this season like Kendall and "I do not wish to hear it"? Do they think they're being cute here?

*not just with Criston, but with Rhaena, too, although you could at least argue there that GRRM himself is also mirroring Jaime and Sansa there

[mejcinta]

Forced Antagonism Toward The Smallfolk In Season 2

Okay, so back to the claims that season 2 will see Alicent and Helaena be attacked by the smallfolk from Flea Bottom (somehow because of Aegon, the convenient fall guy for all things bad and viallinous on the show 🤡)... a Redditor made an interesting observation about the writers' reason for this puzzling choice given that none of it was mentioned in F & B.

It is yet another attempt to twist the 'unsavoury' book canon in favour of Queen Rhaenyra who was recorded as being so tyrannical toward the end of her rule that she caused the smallfolk to rise up against her in deadly riots that saw the dragon population wiped out and she herself neutralised by her younger brother (a.k.a Aegon the 'villain' of the show lmao).

Here's a really interesting breakdown of what the writers are trying to do.

The smallfolk were justified in their rise against Queen Rhaenyra. They were starving and dying from the fallout of the Targaryen civil war that they believed Rhaenyra sparked.

Under Queen Alicent's rule, before the war started, they were better off because the flames of war had not been ignited yet. It's only logical that she was 'beloved' in their eyes as well as Helaena who had never harmed anyone ever.

But now the 'beloved' Former and present Queen, not Aegon and Aemond (who were recorded as being despised by the smallfolk) will apparently be the ones to face the wrath of the smallfolk first, setting up false groundwork for when Rhaenyra's justified end arrives. Lmao.

The same Queen whose decision led to the close of the channel supplying food to KL, the one that captured and tortured many innocent people in her paranoia and threw a lavish party for her (bastard) son while the smallfolk were starving to death because of the war.

Apparently in the leaks she will be sneaking in food for the smallfolk too. WHAT? Did these people care to ever read the book???

I have to commend the writers' commitment to twist, hide and ignore the soul of the story as well as characterisations for their own gain.

They think they're smart but they only look dumb. The attempted assault on Alicent and Helaena, if true, will mirror the attack of Sansa and Joffery by the smallfolk in GOT. Someone give these writers a trophy for how original and truly creative they are lmao!!!

Rant aside, if the leak/rumors are true what more can we do? Just sit back and enjoy the dumpster fire as the smoke rises high and pungent into the sky I guess.

The saddest part is that none of this bs is surprising. I expected it, just not at these levels. Oh, well 🤷🏾‍♀️

[lemonhemlock]

I love Larys this season and his scenes with Aegon that's all. Compelling and Matthew Needham is quite a force. Well and Rhaena hunting down Sheepstealer is good. Nothing else is fun.

i agree about larys with the one caveat i'm going to list below

larys is probably the one green character who makes the most sense, both that his characterisation is consistent AND the way others view him and his reactions to that MAKE SENSE. larys is still larysing but when aemond proves to be a contrarian he switches back to aegon. for once, aemond's shenanigans get proper consequences from his small councilors.

how does alicent not have any leverages against being dismissed when she is the one hightower representative left? sure, aemond sends back for otto, but do you think the story frames that as compensation for dismissing alicent or did the writers feel obligated to bring him back bc he needs to have his death scene? not one braincell was put into this. daemon does shit in the riverlands and the riverlords STAND UP and bully him back. he also has a big scary dragon and they don't give a shit, so it CAN be done, the writers know deep down how to do this, IF THEY CAREF

why is tyland not putting his foot down and demanding something for house lannister? his brother has a bunch of maiden daughters and daeron is unmarried and has a dragon. the frey lord and lady negociated with jace for their support, jeyne arryn is PISSED that she didn't get what she wanted

what the hell is ironrod even doing? he threw in his lot with aemond but aemond doesn't seem to like him or even give a shit about him so why doesn't he have some kind of reaction. i guess the discussion with larys could have been a step in the right direction because you can say he is testing out the waters to see if he can curry favour with aemond by offering up intel OR if he could forge an alliance with larys and go from there

and this is where i have an issue with the writing bc, on the one hand, they are categorically NOT portraying larys as incompetent, but they are also inadvertently making him SO BAD at his job by making these stupid changes from the book. another symptom of wanting to have one's cake and eat it too. the city is in lockdown but rhaenyra can sneak in, no problem, elenda can not only sneak in, she can access an entire network of pro-rhaenyra agents larys somehow knows nothing about, can raise literal riots, can recruit dragonseeds (why do you even need dragonseeds from KL when you're living on dragonstone?!), rhaenyra's food can reach the population somehow even though there are checkpoints at every entry, the dragonseeds can leave by boat and LARYS KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT ANY OF THIS 🧍and no one even thinks to ask him 'hey wtf is going on? you're kinda fired'. but they can't, can they? they can't get rid of larys because he is important to the plot and they need him in the thick of things!

there's a dumbass post circulating now in which someone ✨generously✨ gives people permission to complain about the show but without bringing that "boring book" (FB) into discussion for a comparative analysis. because apparently the book is bad but somehow not bad enough to keep watching tv media derived from it 🤡

the problem with HotD is that it makes FB the pinnacle of logic and storytelling. it doesn't fix any problems, it compounds them. this shit with larys would not fly in the book bc it is dumb as fuck! so you can't help but compare it to the book where these things did not have to be explained away by waving a magic wand or getting a lobotomy

this post is long enough as it is and other people have already explained the problem with the rhaena storyline, so i won't get into it right now, but, in a nutshell: her story can make sense in a void, she get a semblance of an arc: she wanted a dragon and now she will get one and goes on a journey of re-defining her identity, i suppose, after having been dismissed as not sufficiently targaryen as a result of her being dragonless. so, it's the classic problem of making sense in a watsonian way, in the context of the show, but in a doylist way it's Not The Best because they have to delete the only canonically POC low-born character. so we lose that perspective in a show that already prioritizes the highborn

larys has the same problem with him being a sexual deviant directly connected to his disability. as an individual character, it can be explained and justified, but as representation for disabled people (who suffer from a severe lack of representation in media as is), it's Not Great

[lemonhemlock]

i don't like the children to be aemond's because I'm a low key hater of his characterisation in the show lol.

dude is visenya 2.0, hell he even gets her dragon. and Ryan and co. make him this dutiful guy that is supposed to be walmart daeron? nah, miss me with that shit, if he was like book!aemond it would make more sense in my head. aemond in the books is way more reckless than show!aemond IMHO.

and it's not even about helaena, she can fuck whoever she wants, you go girl!!!! but I believe that my girl would be smarter than that? tbf, I think all characters besides rhaenyra wouldn't be that dumb. (i know the kids would look the same, but still having v*serys as a father, after seeing how he treated aemond losing his eye, I personally wouldn't risk it)

fuck aemond, don't fuck aemond i personally don't care...i just don't think he deserves to have children with helaena after he abandons his family to stay in harrenhal, crash and burn walmart!daeron.

i have to say that you're not the first anon who's disgruntled that, out of aegon & aemond, they chose aemond as the character to make more sympathetic. i think you are right in that aemond was given some of daeron's traits; it is very likely that they did not intend to include daeron at all, so they preferred to mesh these two characters as a compromise. in any case, they must have fought over it; perhaps it is one of the reasons miguel sapochnik left - grrm even gave a public declaration that daeron WILL be included and when the time came to design the intro, they DID include 4 rivulets of blood streaming out of alicent to signify her 4 children, as they did with helaegon's 3 children, even though only the twins appear in S1.

so, yeah, it's fair to say mewmond came about as a result of a compromise. that being said, i'd be lying if i said i didn't love what they did with his character. i'd even go so far as to say that it was the right decision to make commercially as well, because he became vv popular with v little screen time. even team black stans keep trying to steal him from us. i don't have a problem with making characters more sympathetic - team black included - what bothers me is the ridiculous bias. generally-speaking, i always like it a lot more when they make the characters out to be more human and understandable, even when they're antagonistic.

there is also the fact that, from a geographical POV, they couldn't really focus on daeron in S1 either, bc he's canonically in oldtown and they couldn't have brought him to KL without performing significant changes to the plot and complicating themselves. SO, taking into account the whitewashing of team black as it is, if they would have made aemond less sympathetic, the two sides would have ended up even more imbalanced.

anyway, what i actually wanted to say is that the characterization they did give aemond makes a lot of sense even in book-context. the maester writing FB is clearly not interested in fleshing out aemond as a person, this is a history textbook, but it is believable to me that aemond would have incurred a lot of psychological and physical damage as a result of his eye being slashed out. and idk it's just more interesting to lean into that side instead of making him a terrorist child from the get-go. this absolutely does not contradict any of the fucked up shit he'll do later on in the series, it's more about progression and descent into madness

[lemonhemlock]

Rhaenicent is what would have been if game of thrones supported danyxsansa. For all of its faults I'm so extremely glad that d&d didn't make it happen. It would have destroyed sansas characterisation where she would have willing bowed down to Dany who is a foreign invader who never gave a fuck about the north, starks or even about jon.

Clearly hotd is so much worse with their increased grooming , sexism and frankly illogical and inconsistent characterisation (that was not in the books). I'm so certain that with how wishy washy they have made alicent they will go with the poisoning theory (to me the show feels like if rhaenyra and her children are in the same danger alicent saves rhaenyra...i guess this may be controversial) and i wish i never got invested in this dumb show. I mean if that is how they conclude everything and if alicent thinks rhaenyra will make a great queen why did she even force aegon to take the throne? He never wanted it. Forcing him also puts helaena and their children in danger. Alicent should have left them to escape and go to essos or something. Maybe helaena convinces aemond and daeron too.

I miss cersei's character who doesn't give a damn about anyone else other than her children and power. She was awesome and after all she went through with robert and tywin she never became as much as a weak character as show!alicent. Both show!rhaenyra and show!alicent cannot hold a candle to cersei(the first and last woman to sit on IT).

Sorry for the rambling, but i feel they should have kept with book alicent age wise ...it would have given less grooming with viserys and otto and i always prefer that. And maybe instead of shipping, people need to focus more on politics.

Always here for the Cersei stanning, but, in all fairness, her goals were much clearer by the nature of the plot - her children are bastards and Robert's only presumed trueborns, she has the means to crown them and she will, otherwise they all die. Whereas the show did a poor job of explaining to the layman why Aegon's claim is superior and why the green children (at least the male ones) are in danger in Rhaenyra took the throne.

That being said, Cersei is her own character and we don't have to clone her every time we need to fill up the Queen spot. I quite liked that they made Alicent distinct, softened her up and gave her internal conflict. Rhaenicent adds a lot to the conversation as a lesbian love story in a medieval setting and subverts the evil stepmother trope. Alicent isn't devoid of a grooming storyline in the books - a highborn girl like her being nursemaid to Old King Jaehaerys is sketchy AF and a honeytrap. Mushroom also says Alicent slept with Viserys before Aemma died. In "The Rogue Prince", it is suggested Daemon deflowered Alicent.

Escaping to Essos has kind of become the go-to solution for everything, but, as Viserys & Daenerys can testify, that doesn't mean they are out of danger, always chased by "the usurper's knives". Saera can live her life in peace because she is a woman with no real claim on the throne; Alicent's trueborn sons? I wouldn't be so sure about that.

Rhaenicent is what would have been if game of thrones supported danyxsansa. For all of its faults I'm so extremely glad that d&d didn't make it happen. It would have destroyed sansas characterisation where she would have willing bowed down to Dany who is a foreign invader who never gave a fuck about the north, starks or even about jon.

There was no reason to make Dany x Sansa happen because they already erased Jon's personality and goals in order for Jonerys to happen. And D&D would not have had the balls to make a major lesbian pairing front & centre of their show either. 🤷‍♀️ Not that I think DxS was desirable in any way lol.