#but nowadays? people have patreons for fanfiction or fanart

[edwardshundredyearoldspunk]

if btvs was set in 2024, buffy summers would livestream her patrols on tiktok. she'd also have a ko-fi and a patreon

[genericpuff]

Your work is fantastic, but please be careful about copyright. I’m not exactly sure if RS/Webtoon could take down your Rekindled work on the basis of copyright, but there’s no doubt in my mind that she would try if it was possible.

Id recommend making it different enough from LO to ensure nothing like that would happen in the future. That’s all, have a good day :D

Thank you for the concern, this is definitely something that has lowkey weighed on my mind but I ultimately know they can't really do anything about it unless I were to either 1.) start claiming LO as my own (which is already laid out in the master post as a disclaimer that this is a fan project and thus falls under fair use/fanfiction, with proper credits to Rachel Smythe) or 2.) tried profiting off it as its own individual entity (meaning, I obviously can't sell Rekindled or put it behind paywalls, but I'm not even inclined to do that anyways as this is just a side project for me lol)

If, hypothetically, Rekindled did get DMCA'd in any way over this, it would set the precedent that all non-profit fanworks, modifications and/or remakes are off limits, including panel edits, panel redraws, character redesigns, LO-stylized works, etc. and ... that's definitely not a beast Webtoons should be willing to poke LOL (because ultimately, you can't copyright an art style and Rachel is still using characters that are not her own, the only concept that 'belongs' to her are her designs around those characters but that's why I have that disclaimer to remind people that this is a fan project and shouldn't be confused for the 'real thing').

It's like when WT copyright struck Pyrrhic and Victoria's videos. WT could keep them from uploading for a few weeks so the platform could be given an opportunity to press it further, but they couldn't take any legitimate legal action because there's nothing illegal about reviewing or criticizing content that's free to access on a phone app. So all it really did was fuck with P&V's algorithm visibility and posting schedule.

The best I try to do to protect my own butt is keep it purely on Tumblr (meaning I'm not gonna mirror it to any official webcomic platforms, ESPECIALLY not Webtoons) and not sell or crowdfund anything related to or affiliated with Rekindled. Running a general Patreon or Ko-Fi or Twitch subs would probably be fine (for the same reason it's 'fine' for sakimi-chan to run a Patreon for her fanart content) but I don't wanna give Webtoons a reason to go ham on my ass LOL (and I already utilize those platforms for my main projects anyways so I don't want to be doubling up, it's too much work on top of what I'm already having to manage).

So yeah, here's hoping I don't get my ass slapped, but I really doubt that'll happen. I make it pretty clear in the disclaimers, art and writing that this isn't LO and it's not my intention to try and take credit for Rachel's work (mean take: not like I'd really WANT to take credit when it's so awful nowadays, blech) so as long as I don't try to sell it, there's zero reason for WT/RS to try anything and it would just make them look like bigger assholes. Which neither of them need right now (￣y▽,￣)╭

[olderthannetfic]

No worries if you don't feel like answering this, but why is fanart allowed to be sold at public places like conventions and fanfiction is always presented as shouldn't be paid toward? I fully understand why it cannot be advertised on Ao3 in any way for legal reasons, but I don't understand why doing private commissions is seen as the worst thing but fanart is often allowed, even to the point of being mass produced sometimes?

Traditioooooooon! Tradition!

No, really, that’s most of the answer. This is a very longstanding drama/dispute/double standard. There are some factors that probably contribute though:

It’s a lot harder to tell if a cartoony drawing is Legolas or a generic elf than to tell that fanfic with the name ‘Legolas’ all over it is about him.

US comics don’t pay a living wage, so selling art of the same characters on the side is a common revenue stream for the pros and the companies turn a blind eye. (Or so I am told.)

People feel like art is being sold as the original or numbered prints or at least a printout, while fic is not. (And, yes, discourse around selling fic was very different in the era of zines when people did have to cover their costs for paper and ink.) Whether or not it’s true that artists need to cover materials costs, that’s how people feel.

That said, fan art can and does get attacked legally by rights holders all the time. Plenty of cons have kicked out plenty of individual artists. Plenty of web stores have had to take items down.

----

As for why I dislike it: It fucks with fandom culture.

I have always been into fic and then later got into vids. I’ve never been that into fan art. I do look at some of the pro-looking stuff, and it’s pretty, but I haven’t been in the community, so I can’t really speak to how money affects it on a social level.

(OTOH, I think that the presence of commercial concerns in fan art communities is part of why I never found them appealing. Don’t assume that the people who hate fic commissions are actually okay with art being sold. More likely, we just realize it’s not a battle we can win.)

In the case of these other areas, the fact that no writer (or vidder) is getting paid is essential. The minute anyone is getting paid, you are looking at media pros and customers, not friends sharing their hobby with each other.

I enjoy some of those youtubers who have patreons. I even back a few of them. They are not my peers. They are not my friends.

I enjoy m/m romance novels, have been to the industry conference, GRL, and have met a bunch of authors whose work I like. I back some of those patreons too. We are not friends. We are friendly, but I am their customer. Or perhaps I am their patron, which is an unequal relationship in the opposite direction.

Both of these industries experience a massive push towards content that gets clicks or that attracts the largest paying audience. Neither of them rewards rare or sporadic content in the way that AO3 does. I routinely get random kudos on years-old vids made of obscure sources nobody would be looking for and certainly no one would pay money for a fanwork of.

If we want fandom to be a hellscape of even more juggernaut ships and nothing else, by all means, monetize. If we want fic readers to be entitled customers or lowly peons not worthy to kiss the boots of fic writers instead of peers and friends, sure.

It’s like when your friend comes to your dinner party only to harass all of your social circle about joining their pyramid scheme. They can’t afford not to do that, but they’re doing it on the back of your hard work to make the party happen, and they’re destroying both their own relationships with everyone present and, potentially, yours.

Also, like the hapless people who sell leggings or try to get Youtube famous nowadays, making real money is mostly a pipe dream. There is no big upside here unless you’re one of a handful of BNFs who can produce vast bodies of work about certain juggernaut ships on command. Meanwhile, you’ve shat up the social space for everyone else.

Gig-ifying fanfic fandom is anathema. It destroys what is socially valuable. THIS is the real reason that commercial spam is banned on AO3. We who built AO3 come from a fandom culture that does not like this, and we did not want it infesting our space. Yes, there are good legal reasons to do it too, but a big part of it is that they who build the infrastructure make the rules.

For more, see Fanlore:

https://fanlore.org/wiki/Fandom_and_Profit

[giuliafc]

as far as I've read on their message they give you the option of doing it if you want, but you're not required to use the paid service.

I have often seen artists who produce fanart request a small (or larger, depending on the quality of the art) payment and I have paid for commissions myself to get wonderful arts done for my fanfictions. I also support a few artists on patreon with a monthly payment. Now, I'm very happy to do it and I don't see any problem in paying for work that is commissioned to them and they spend time and effort in producing. However, even THAT is using copyrighted material to earn money. The payment is for their time and resources more than anything else, but it's still a payment. Hence, the world of fanart is already monetised by the same artists who take on commissions to create art. I haven't seen ANY lawsuit because of it.

Now although it's true that fanfiction is the writing of a fan based on characters and situations copyrighted to someone else, so is a fanart commissioned to an artist. So if an artist can request a payment for a fanart that is commissioned, I don't think it's too far fetched to say that if someone commissions me a story for a prompt that they have always wanted to see developed and I write it for them, I should be able to request a payment for the story exactly like an artist could do for a fanart. What's the difference? I as a writer have also put time and effort in writing something following someone else's guidelines.

Now, I'm NOT saying that I will or that I would, but I'm just saying that theoretically, it's the exact same principle. There are artists who make a LIVING off supporters they get on Patreon, sometimes even thousands of dollars/euros per month. They aren't being sued for it. In fact, I have seen the actual authors of the shows sometimes complimenting them for the beautiful arts they have created.

There is something that I have noticed in the fandom and it saddens me considerably. Artists start getting recognised for their work: this is a GOOD THING and I'm SO HAPPY it's happening. You see a post wit a beautiful art and you reblog it and write a comment underneath because you're in love. BUT then you real a BEAUTIFUL piece of writing, you love it and... you only put a like on it and carry on with your life. What's different even here? Doesn't the fanfic author also deserves to be reblogged and to receive a comment on how much you loved their piece? Didn't the fanfiction writer put also a lot of time and effort (and resources. You need a computer or a phone and a word processor to write, and an internet connection to upload) into it? I personally spend my nights writing, then I ask at least two or three people to beta read for me and make sure that the piece is perfect before putting it online. Sometimes a chapter takes me hours to write. Sometimes I don't sleep until 5 am to put the finishing touches to a story. What's different between this and a fanart?

In short, I'm trying to say that in the fandom nowadays there seems to be two different ways of thinking. Artists who draw arts can be recognised, commissions paid for and posts reblogged. Writers instead... don't know. It feels almost as if we should be ashamed of what we do. We write stories that sometimes inspire art. Some stories a beautifully written, even better than proper books published. Sometimes we take commissions, we take prompts and write a story about it and dedicate it to the person who proposed the prompt. I don't see any difference between that and drawing an art. Yet, artists have patreons, paid followers and such, writers can't.

AND I WANT TO REALLY HIGHLIGHT AND POINT OUT CLEARLY THAT I'M HAPPY THAT ILLUSTRATOR ARTISTS GET RECOGNISED AND IN NO WAY WHATSOEVER I'M IMPLYING THAT THEY SHOULDN'T BE RECOGNISED. I JUST WOULD LIKE THE SAME TO HAPPEN TO WRITERS TOO, BECAUSE WRITERS ARE ALSO ARTISTS.

Ok but on a more serious note: tumblr literally says we can monetize fanart and fanfiction and I don't know if they are flat out stupid or if they don't care about their users (it's probably both) but holy shit those are hundreds of serious lawsuits waiting to happen for the love of god don't do that