#but none of these stories after the fact acknowledged that Barbara regretted what she did to the Hulk

[daydreamerdrew]

The Defenders (1972) #68

[bigskydreaming]

Also, weren't the majority of Tim's losses more out in the open and known without even digging, in universe? Did anyone other than Alfred and Bruce and maybe Barbara really know the full extent of what happened to Dick (assuming they even knew the entire story and not just what Dick let them or they were able to figure out)?

Its a good question, and I think one that just falls to individual headcanons or takes to answer. My own personal take is that Alfred, Bruce, Babs and Tim all knew the basic outline of losses that were public knowledge - they knew about the circus being attacked by Firefly of course, they knew about Dick’s apartment building, and while they never EXPLICITLY said they knew what exactly happened with Blockbuster, they’re all aware that however his death actually happened, Dick harbored massive feelings of guilt for it and literally turned himself in to the police except even the police said like even by your own account of things there’s nothing we could fucking charge you for other than just plain vigilantism, because nothing else you did there was criminally wrong.

So all of that, I think, they all knew about and even if they never discussed it specifically with Dick, they were aware of these events and no doubt formed their own conclusions or attempted to fill in any gaps in knowledge there with their own guesswork.

And then of course, it was kinda hard to miss Bludhaven being reduced to a smoking crater. There was a lot going on that year, but uh, that definitely hit the news.

So personally, I believe the only thing they didn’t all know about was the specifics of what happened with Tarantula, and/or how all of that played into the end of Dick and Babs’ relationship....I say this because like, there have to be a lot of QUESTIONS among the Batfam about Tarantula, without a lot of answers, since I don’t think the matter was ever raised with Dick. Like, the rest of them knew very little about this anti-hero Dick worked with and even trained for a time, but then seemed to be mortal enemies with the next minute. I think they all know she played SOME kind of role in the end of Dick and Babs’ relationship, but I don’t think they actually know what that is, and some of them might have drawn conclusions that make sense, but only from a certain perspective and lacking key information.

Like, its also a thing that after Blockbuster was killed and what happened on the roof afterwards, Dick was in a state of shock that had him depressed, lost and listless for literal weeks afterward. Rather than push Tarantula away for what she did to him, he kinda went into denial about it and then engaged in a kinda ‘just going with it i guess’ pseudo relationship with her as she was weirdly one of the only remaining sources of familiarity in his life at that point, with so many of his usual landmarks of self having literally just been blown to pieces. So she went on the road looking for supervillains to take down, like Copperhead, and he just kinda...went along for the ride, but mostly stayed in their hotel room or at bars being the actual poster boy for depression and severe trauma except for when she manuevered events to force him into confrontations with supervillains, in order to help people/her....like, her version of trying to reignite his fire, I suppose. Without ever acknowledging the role she’d played in dousing it in the first place, which is y’know....why it didn’t work.

But my point being, Dick was actually on the road with Tarantula when Bruce called him during the War Games event, to help with the gang war that had erupted across Gotham. And so Dick went to Gotham to help, and brought her along with him, because he still wasn’t at the point of being ready for the confrontation that trying to leave her behind or tell her she couldn’t come was bound to bring.

So Tarantula also ended up in Gotham during War Games, nominally helping out as a member of Batman’s team by proxy....specifically because Dick vouched for her. For this event or mission at least. And once it was done, THAT was when Dick started trying to face what he viewed as wrong in his life, starting with him attempting to take responsibility for Blockbuster’s death, turning BOTH of them in for it....but of course, Tarantula was the only one it took with, given that like....she was the one who’d actually did it. And also everything else that was ever wrong with the storylines involving Dick having ever been a cop, which is everything, and idk wanna talk about it I just wanna forget lololol fahlsfhalf.

And because of that vouching for her during War Games, which is basically the only time most of the Batfam ever interacted with her, and it was all pretty surface level, professional style interactions....there’s the possibility, and even the likelihood, that some of them formed assumptions about the nature of Dick and Tarantula’s relationship that just weren’t accurate, or like, they made more of his bringing her along than it actually ever was. Because they were viewing it as well Dick wouldn’t have done that if he didn’t really trust this woman, and lacking the information that Dick wasn’t really in the driver’s seat for much at that point, he’d kinda been like hey Trauma take the wheel, and was trying his damn best to nap in the backseat.

So personally I headcanon that as far as the rest of the Batfam goes, they kinda avoid mentioning that Tarantula person, because they never really KNEW her and in fact never really even knew what the deal was between her and Dick, they just knew that there was SOMETHING going on there, and that in years since, its just been seen as a super sensitive subject none of them want to raise with him because he seems touchy about it every time they go near the topic.....and so again, its inevitable they’re going to have opinions or theories about WHY that is. 

But without all the information, and what little evidence they do have to draw conclusions from mostly just being Dick’s shifting behavior towards her and thus ‘tainted evidence’ due to the fact that Dick’s behavior and attitudes towards her were all hugely trauma based and thus nothing they could reliably measure against or draw accurate impressions FROM....chances are there’s actually a spectrum of opinions amid the Batfamily as to what the precise nature of Dick and Tarantula’s relationship was, as well as why, specifically, its such a sensitive subject with him. 

Like, headcanon-wise, I tend to imagine that some of them assume the reason he ices out conversation about her is just because they think they WERE in some kind of relationship and that Dick just super regrets ever having been with her after the fact, based on the mistaken (but understandable) conclusions drawn from them just being together PERIOD, during War Games.....but lacking the crucial insight into just how bad off Dick was at the time, mentally, and how much he was NOT operating from a place of Making Choices I Actually Wanna Make but rather from the mailing address of Hi, Dick Grayson Has Left The Building, He’s All Checked Out, Its Just Trauma and Badly Processing It, That’s Who’s Home At the Moment, Leave a Message After the Beep.