#but literally whenever trans men speak up we ARE dismissed.

[remma-demma]

Truly fucking insane to me how even some trans people have drunk the gender essentialist koolaid and think that trans men are like, inherently arms of the patriarchy and oppressors. Just like believing all cis men are each, individually responsible for patriarchy. Isn’t the point of feminism that the system and people’s unconscious upholding of the system are the thing to be criticizing?? Gender essentialism is still gender essentialism even if you do it to trans people.

I don’t know why people don’t understand that treating any group as a monolith whose experiences are all the same is like. Bad and harmful. Trans men are men but they are not cis men. Many of us have experienced girl / womanhood enforced on us by society and deeply understand the struggle. I don’t see why it’s harmful to acknowledge the fact that trans men experience misogyny!!!! Lots of trans men haven’t or won’t transition! I promise you even if we are men, see ourselves as men, the vast majority of society will not.

I really hate infighting and “calling out” whole sections of the community, and I guarantee I’m not talking about 90% of trans women who are normal but that other 10% act like trans men have betrayed women by “choosing to be men”. Isn’t that like, 1) literally gc / terf logic and 2) implying that trans people just up and choose their gender one day (not saying that some don’t but like. Being trans is a deeply personal thing that’s often not a choice.)

This is thinking that makes trans men guilty to be trans men. We’re used to hearing it from radfems but to hear it from people who are supposed to be our allies??? From people who we have something so deeply in common with? It fucking sucks!!!

[kitkatopinions]

Can we talk about the rampant bi/panphobia surrounding Yang "looks at guys like they're fresh meat in the first 3 volumes and chibi" Xiao Long? Blake's gets brought up a lot as 90% of her reason for existing is to be the romancable NPC, but it's hardly talked about with Yang. She has shown express interest in guys. Even if Bees goes canon, it's not a Bi/Lesbian ship. It's a Bi/Bi or Bi/Pan ship or what ever other possible identity that doesn't erase Yang's attraction to men. I get the whole wanting rep thing but there's more lesbians in RWBY than any other LGBT identity and they aren't really that good in terms of representation. Do we really need another angry/aggressive/problematic lesbian in RWBY? And whenever it does get brought up, Lesbian!Yang fans always go "oh, it's just comphet". Um, excuse me? Isn't comphet not supposed to be a thing in Remnant?

Okay, so there's a lot to unpack here, and I do get why you're so frustrated because as a bi person, it gets so frustrating dealing with not only a huge lack of representation, but also feeling boxed out of, undervalued by, and invalidated by your own community sometimes. I myself have been really frustrated and even hurt by the way many RWBY fans (and specifically Bumblebee fans) have talked about Blake and Yang's sexuality, like they would be less gay or less rep if they were bi, how shipping them with men is 'wrong' because it's 'straight behavior' and 'validating the straights,' and I got particularly annoyed once by a post that claimed that people only shipped Yang and Weiss so that they could force Blake - who they claimed was a canon lesbian - into a relationship with a man. I think it's clear why people talk about Blake's status as bi more than Yang's - Yang has one moment in eight seasons where she acts clearly attracted to men, whereas Blake has had two canon romantic relationships with men, Adam being her ex and her having gone on a date with and kissed Sun on the cheek. When people dispute Blake's status as a bi, sometimes they (rightly) come at it from the point of view of 'this is just my own personal headcanon for my own benefit.' But too often, Blake's attraction to men is dismissed outright and fans try and find every excuse to invalidate it so that they can insist that Blake is a canon lesbian. That's pretty openly biphobic imo. (Also I don't agree that 90% of Blake's character is a romancable NPC. I think maybe she's become mostly not an active character who only really exists as support and romance, but the idea that it's 90% of her overall show character is weird to me, Blake is done dirty by the show but that doesn't mean she's not a character for the first five seasons.)

But Yang is also worth talking about. Because of the fact that her moment of displaying clear attraction towards men is brief and early in the show, many fans have just... Thrown it out entirely, and decided that not only does it not count, but that anyone who brings it up is living in the past and is stupid for paying attention to the early seasons. That's obviously really dumb. The idea that after the first five seasons, Yang is displaying clear romantic attraction towards a girl for the first time, she is now one hundred percent a lesbian in canon because she's only displayed romantic attraction towards men once... That's also rooted in biphobia. Being attracted to men doesn't just suddenly go away because you're attracted to women and vice versa, no one chooses to be bi, gay, straight, ace, whatever. If Yang was sexually attracted towards men at seventeen, that part of her doesn't stop existing just because she's sexually attracted to women too. The thing is, headcanoning Yang (or even Blake!) as a lesbian is totally fine. I think the RWBY creators did say that sexism, racism, and homophobia doesn't exist in Remnant, but like ??? Idk why they'd decide something like that if they were gonna make jokes about Jaune and Qrow wearing skirts haha laugh at the non-gender-conformity of men, and if they'd write the first five seasons with literally one gay character, while tons of straight relationships that get credence, everyone else expresses no clear romantic inclination towards the same sex for five years of the show running. And we're supposed to think there's no heteronormativity at least? Cardin and Jaune both have clear toxic masculinity problems that Jaune grows out of, but we're supposed to think that toxic masculinity has nothing to do with any sexism or homophobia, however internalized? I think if people want their fans to believe there is not sexism or homophobia or racism in their fake world, they need to make good and sure their own internalized issues don't leak into their work. So I don't think it's wholly invalid when people decide that in their headcanon, they think Yang just acted like she was attracted to men because she thought she should. I especially think it's valid for people to headcanon that Yang had acted like she attracted to men because she thought she was. She was only seventeen, seventeen year olds put on behavior that they think is cool and she is the niece of Qrow 'wink at Winter to piss her off' Branwen, and Yang could've realized maybe during school that putting on behavior was all that was, and that she isn't actually attracted towards men and likes girls - specifically the girl dancing with Sun at the school ball. That's perfectly valid as a headcanon. But that's all it is, a headcanon.

Yang is not a canon lesbian and it's perfectly valid and supported by Yang's canon interactions for people to consider her bi or pan, and people can even headcanon her as ace if they want. Trying to demand that other people see fictional characters as the sexuality you prefer them in is just going to drive wedges, especially when so much venom seems to be directed towards bi characters, with others acting like they're literally less rep if they also have romantic interactions with people of the opposite sex. Like, people literally have the idea of "I love that Blake is bi, but I hate that people are shipping her with men or talking about Blake's romances with men and idk why the show put any focus on her romantically interacting with men." Like, sure, okay, so you support bi characters so long as they don't be bi too obviously. But... I'm getting off topic.

Here's the thing... I would caution not to get too deep in this "there's too many lesbians," concept. We're supposed to all be one community, supporting and fighting for each other. The problem isn't that there's too much representation for lesbians, the problem is that there is not enough representation for bi people, or pan, or ace, or trans men, or trans women, or non-binary people, etc. We don't have to wish less for other gay people to wish for more for ourselves. I agree that disregarding Yang's moment of attraction to men maybe isn't the way to go, but it's not that there are already enough lesbians in RWBY. There are only three side characters (by the way, two of them aren't confirmed lesbians, just because they're in a relationship with each other,) two of whom made a very minor appearance in all of two or three episodes and will likely never return to the story. As you say, the rep that lesbians have gotten in RWBY isn't very good. Them desiring more representation is perfectly valid, and I even get them wanting that representation from Yang, despite her single moment of lusting after boys in season one. That's a perfectly understandable desire. I myself want gay Neptune despite him expressing interest in women. It's not wrong. The only thing that's wrong is villainizing and mocking people for their own very valid ships like BlackSun or Yang x Jaune or Yang x Mercury or Blake x Ren or whatever ships people like. I'm sorry that I can't agree with you here, but if there was a scene in RWBY where Yang discusses her feelings for Blake and says that she realized she's a lesbian... I might not be particularly happy with the writing staff, because I already heard there's an element of disregarding Blake's former relationship with Sun in things like the comics, which is frustrating as a bi person. But I would be happy for the people who would find in this something that speaks to them and makes them feel like their own experiences are represented. Sometimes I can feel excluded from the LGBTQ+ community due to my attraction towards men, and that's hard, but I'm not going to start devaluing the victories of other gay people because of it, I'm not going to start getting upset when they get representation, or when a character they love claims an identity that reflects their own.

I do get where your frustration is coming from though, and it's perfectly valid to feel upset and exasperated both with the way MKEK write their queer relationships and in how people in the fandom tend to disregard the bi identity of characters.