#but jm in too much pain and tired rn

[screamting]

(goes over onto my own post before accepting that I'm going to be making jason todd wank )

Jason is uncategorically a victim.

I think what keeps driving me away from the character is that's all people will recognize about him. Because he was absolutely betrayed by people he thought he could trust and then murdered, after a life of being failed by multiple institutions and maybe even failed by Batman and Bruce Wayne.

But then he comes back to life and he continues the cycle of victimization.

His killing isn't actually about crime. I know it. Bruce knows it. I assume the writers knew it at some point. He's not killing people because he thinks it will help, he is making more Jason Todds and Bruce Waynes as collateral in his attempt to prove that Bruce didn't really love him. He is using one argument to have a completely different one. A systemic argument to have an emotional one.

You cannot win an argument that neither side is addressing. The more people using the 'why didn't you kill the joker/anyone?' thing as an argument the further they get away from the actual root, which is, 'did you ever love me?' And even if Bruce literally out loud says 'yes,' that doesn't mean anything if Jason can't make himself trust it. And you can make a very strong argument that Bruce does not pass the test, and no matter how skewed the test was, a fail is a fail (related: discussions held under threat of suicide are a little difficult to trust)

The snarl that takes them farther from each other is interesting if you actually took it that way! But I don't think most people view it that way and instead take sides along the 'is killing ok' line, which is... not what the issue is

[angstandhappiness]

INTERESTING is that so

(goes over onto my own post before accepting that I'm going to be making jason todd wank )

Jason is uncategorically a victim.

I think what keeps driving me away from the character is that's all people will recognize about him. Because he was absolutely betrayed by people he thought he could trust and then murdered, after a life of being failed by multiple institutions and maybe even failed by Batman and Bruce Wayne.

But then he comes back to life and he continues the cycle of victimization.

His killing isn't actually about crime. I know it. Bruce knows it. I assume the writers knew it at some point. He's not killing people because he thinks it will help, he is making more Jason Todds and Bruce Waynes as collateral in his attempt to prove that Bruce didn't really love him. He is using one argument to have a completely different one. A systemic argument to have an emotional one.

You cannot win an argument that neither side is addressing. The more people using the 'why didn't you kill the joker/anyone?' thing as an argument the further they get away from the actual root, which is, 'did you ever love me?' And even if Bruce literally out loud says 'yes,' that doesn't mean anything if Jason can't make himself trust it. And you can make a very strong argument that Bruce does not pass the test, and no matter how skewed the test was, a fail is a fail (related: discussions held under threat of suicide are a little difficult to trust)

The snarl that takes them farther from each other is interesting if you actually took it that way! But I don't think most people view it that way and instead take sides along the 'is killing ok' line, which is... not what the issue is