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sleuthie · 2 years ago

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Dissecting "Nancy won't Settle Down," Nedcy versus Traditional Marriage, and Ned versus Hypermasculinity versus the Hardy Boys because it's 3 AM (very long meta)

I don't exactly how to phrase this, but there's something that really bothers me about the way that people say that "Nancy's never going to settle down"

Who said she had to?

Like it just feels like continuing this weird expectation of how either men or women have to be in a marriage and then also a weak attempt to be against it at the same time for something that literally doesn't have to happen.

idk it's just like....performative. saying that feels performative.

Marriage will never actually be a part of the equation of Nancy's life as long as people respect the reason her character is designed the way that it is. Which they won't, but that's another post.

But, hypothetically,

why would Ned, who many of you describe as a doormat, force Nancy into a position that she does not suit because that's how marriage is "traditionally" supposed to be?

Or even why would Nancy, a woman with a strong sense of identity, force herself into a position that she does not suit because that's how marriage is "traditionally" supposed to be?

It doesn't make sense to me.

Why if they got married would it have to be a traditional marriage? Cause a lot fo you seem to be implying that needs to happen if they got married. She has to be forced into a quiet and calm life when that doesn't even have to be an option.

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Additionally, I'm not sure who failed some of you in this department, but there are so many bad takes assigned to either of their personalities with this phrase.

And I'm not saying this to force any nonnedcy shipper into shipping nedcy, I'm saying this to help people understand how it fits in canon.

In that personality post that I never expanded upon even though I said I would, I said that Ned's personality complements Nancy's. Which is true. He complements her because he represented the things she needed, and not just to shut sexist people up. That was just bonus.

He understands her without having the exact same personality/dreams/goals as she does. He's a scientist. He has an investigative mind that grew in a different way. He's charismatic. He's strong. He's safe.

She needed safety, understanding, compassion, strength, intelligence, and a strong right hook.

She has a weird life and she needed someone who was well along for the ride, because before Ned she didn't have that. She dated guys who basically belittled or never truly took her interests into consideration. In defense of some, they just couldn't because of how their own lives were. But Ned could. And he did. He likes how weird is life is because of her.

There's a whole speech in a Files book I could use, but I much prefer the Sapphire Spider where Ned is kidnapped and missed finals and he is more worried about finals than the kidnapping which he basically takes as an "it happens" sort of thing. I feel like that has the same energy if he's just accepted that that's his life now with seemingly little-to-no difficulties.

That's the most basic of it.

Without pulling everything up, whenever Ned has talked about his future, he's never decided anything about her future. which is what she really loved about him. If he ever actually forced her into doing anything it was stopping her from dying. He never told her what her future was going to be, he just knew he wants her in it.

If you think that all men, no matter what their personalities are, would force their wives, no matter what their personalities are, to be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen at all times, then that sounds like a totally different problem than disliking a character or ship.

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This also bleeds into something I've been feeling for a long time that I've never really said, but I'm not sure how progressive this fandom actually is compared to what it acts like it is.

The people doing the "settle down thing" seem weirdly opposed to a less-than-traditional relationship at times. Like if they got married, they would never do the breadwinner husband or housewife thing. That's not their personality. I don't think they would have even done it in the past, because there are Stratemayer books that didn't really do that. They would probably both work. And not even in the "neotraditional" household where the wife has a job just still does all the childcare. Ned is too loving. He would never just make kids to ignore them and complain about "slaving away all day to put food in their mouths." That's not their personalities either.

If any "type" of marriage would better describe what would be suitable for them is a partnership marriage. A partnership marriage is a far more gender-neutral model of marriage based on an equal division of labor that is suitable for both parties. They are unique to every couple and are based on a shared decision on what they think is best. Overall, the couple lives life as they find suitable and they don't need anyone telling them how well they think their relationship should be. This much better reflects modern views on marriage.

She could maintain her jet-setting ways, and be a wife and mother. But is that too weird for some of y'all because it puts a woman in a position where she is not at all times accessible to her children and a man in a more accessible caregiver position? Be honest. It's fine. It's necessary to unpack this stuff.

Not all of you are Hardy Boys fans, but there are some people who are seemingly more comfortable with Fenton and Laura who have been in a similar relationship for years but the genders reversed and do not see the similarities. For this argument, I am including when Laura is not just a housewife (I'm not entirely convinced this has ever truly been the case but another time). Because for many, it's easier to digest when a man neglects his marriage and childrearing duties to work and travel than when a woman does it.

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Continuing on the feminism train. This also reminds me of this concept I learned that honestly does apply very well to how many people here treat Ned (and maybe others). A very unprogressive concept in which people are uncomfortable with a man who does not display the "traditionally masculine traits" of ambition, restraint, independence, or just simply being happy and comfortable being in a position similar to a SAHD or making less than their female spouse.

Sometimes the way that people talk about or straight up just insult Ned reminds me of this concept of people being apprehensive with men that are seemingly not comfortable with being the best/the manliest/the most superior. For example, there was once this children's librarian who was berated, laughed at, and bullied by his coworkers (male and female) for not wanting to be the library director. He did not want to be at the top of his field (to them more of a man/more masculine), so he was ridiculed for already achieving his dream of being a children's librarian. You might not think this fully applies to him, but keep reading this novel of a post and you'll see the connection.

Now, this idea came to me from the book Gender: ideas, interactions, institutions. There are honestly so many different concepts of masculinity, femininity, and androgyny in this book that I could apply to any character. But for now a little taste with just Ned.

There are many people in this fandom who have a problem with the way that he does gender. The same thing actually happens with George, Nancy, Frank, Joe, and Bess in their own ways. But Ned has always been my main example of seeing this. He does not "do gender or perform his gender in a way that people are usually comfortable with men doing. There are ways that he breaks gender rules.

In the way that he is more comfortable with being at least semi-stationary while is globetrotting girlfriend lives up to that alliteration is a problem in the way that he performs his masculinity in society's perferred method.

Ned is a love interest to an Action Girlfriend aka a female character that acts as "the hero," which means he is put into a position that leans towards a more feminized area in fiction. Remember that he has existed since 1932. There are more male love interests in a similar position now then there have been for the entirety of his existence. He is the damsel in distress at times and he's alright with that, mostly because he knows that Nancy will save him. If you actually look in the Distressed Dude section in TVTropes, Ned is there.

Besties with Lois Lane and Olive Oyl /j

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------However, as I briefly mentioned, the love interest position is not the only thing that causes this type of reaction that I'm seeing. Even if many don't realize gendered thinking and the gender binary are so ingrained in socialization that people often police or enforce gender when they don't even realize this.

This often comes in the form of criticism or expectation. The criticizing is obviously focused more on someone who is not currently performing the preferred behaviors of their gender while the expectation is similar, but this form of disliking someone's gender performance comes with the expectation that they will fulfill it even when they've given the person no reason to believe that they will with their behavior.

Some of these critiques or even expectations that I've seen of Ned (and other male characters) often associate with hypermasculinity being enforced.

The type of characteristics we can see with hypermasculine behavior is

aggression

ambition

combative

dominant

hypersexual

unempathetic

restrained (emotionally)

impulsive

violent

unkind

contentious

brutal

strong

confident

physical

abrasive

assertive (bossy)

possessive

Some of those might be synonyms, but you get the idea. These are things that are socially enforced and accepted as the ideal display of masculinity. If a man fails to perform all of these in association with each other, he opens himself up to being targeted, harassed, harmed, or ostracized. They will be seen as lesser men.

Again, this concept is something that people will even enforce without realizing it because society ingrains the expectation of upholding the gender binary in our minds.

How many of the words in the list really describe Ned? Like sure he's strong, occasionally confident, and he has his ambitions....but the other ones. They don't really suit him.

He is rather emotional, and empathetic, and thinks things through for the most part. He is not typically possessive, violent, aggressive, abrasive, or assertive. Helping Nancy and being "at the beck and call" puts him in a more subordinate position compared to her leadership and dominance.

Ignoring the fact that Ned is getting his degree to obtain his career, he is not actively pursuing his career. At least in the way we see Nancy, Frank, and Joe. This is something that is enforced and encouraged in androcentrism (favoring masculine traits aka ambition). In the games specifically, his ambition is not actively shown. The internship is close, but we don't see that.

Ned is put in a less ambitious, less stereotypically masculine position. He is the housewife. He is making dinner and cleaning up the kids before the breadwinner (Nancy) comes homes and gives him 20 bucks to buy himself something pretty.

Now some people who have a well-filled pool of information of the Nancy Drew franchise might try to point out that there are times when Ned performs hypermasculinity. There definitely are. But let me point this out from the Nancy Drew Scrapbook.

These traits may exist. But they are inconsistent. They honestly do not always exist. Any amount of aggression that exists in one book is absent in the next. Same thing with jealousy, some people try to portray him as an aggressively possessive monster. At most, that is another inconsistent trait that often appears in books heavily criticized for their poor writing, excessive cliche attempts at drama, and mischaracterization of everyone. Files is a constant example of this.

Sidenote: Ned's relationship with jealousy is weird and also often misunderstood in my opinion so someone remind me to discuss that further. (THINK SEA or CAP)

Comparatively, even if you use the most hypermasculine examples from any part of the franchise, Ned doesn't really do gender in the same way the Hardy Boys do. It has actually been a long-standing critique that Fenton, Frank, and Joe are constantly upholding the ideals of "traditional American masculinity" as they often display all of these traits. Some level of variance of course, but they're there.

And I saw it. I even see it in the ways that they are praised over Ned. It's because they're more driven, active, independent, and confident. They are more masculine than he is. They perform masculinity better than he does. The masculine traits they have in common, they are better at them. Therefore, they are better men.

It's no secret that many people here openly put down Ned to uplift Frank. Even if some of you pretend that it isn't true, you're about as subtle as a bull in a china shop. "Nancy really needs someone more like her. Nancy needs someone who can challenge her. Nancy needs someone who displays more hypermasculine traits and better fits society's mold of what a 'real man.' is." The last one is an exaggeration, but it also isn't.

I love all three of them. However, I'm also not afraid to critique the pitfalls of the more hypermasculine or toxically masculine ways that the Hardy Boys are boys. They do not have the same level of healthy masculinity as Ned.

(They are better in the games, I will give them that, but there is a notable difference in the games being marketed towards girls and the Hardy Boys franchise being marketed towards boys.)

And I am going to define it as healthy masculinity because the ways that the difference between healthy and toxic have been defined lean closer to Ned's behavior rather than the Hardy Boys.

Masculinity is a spectrum along with feminity and androgeny. There are many ways that a man is a man or masculine because they are separate concepts. Remembering that is vital in unpacking the ways that binary is enforced. Even policing the behaviors and displays of gender in fictional characters is a part of enforcing the binary.

Do not get fanon mixed up with canon here. Because the games may lead people to misunderstand how these characters have been portrayed with their associations of masculinity over the years. Along with Tumblr and turning Frank Hardy into the ideal YA Fiction Love Interest over his actual personality. But that's a whole different topic that might get too personal.

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Anyway, I've spent a lot of time unpacking my relationship with gender. I barely have one. So this is a topic I am comfortable with discussing randomly at 3-6 O'Clock in the morning.

This is not an attack on anyone or calling anyone sexist or close-minded for falling into socialized gender norms. Pretty much all of us were raised on this cisheteronormitive bullshit and it takes a lot to undo that damage.

Like I said earlier this type of policing or enforcing of gender rules can often happen without someone realizing it. Gender rules are beaten into the minds of many and take a long time to truly, fully alter your mind away from societal expectations. There's a strong possibility that many of you are actually policing Ned's gender without even realizing it. In the same way, using Frank or both of the Hardy Boys enforce gender.

The same way that "Nancy settling down" oddly circles back to the oxymoronic enforcement of traditional gender rules in relationships. Because they don't fit them as well, there's no way that a relationship could work.

At its' best, the Nancy Drew franchise displays an interesting relationship with gender concerning all of the main characters. Bess and George are the most obvious because of their foiled nature with their femininity and masculinity being so central to their characters. But honestly, Ned and Nancy have their own relationships with the gender that are equally interesting and go against cisheteronormative ideals in their own ways.

I wish I could say the Hardy Boys have an interesting relationship with gender or display it without it coming out in a sarcastic and resentful tone. I'll save that for next time.

To sum up

Nancy can get married without compromising her identity (not nedcy specific)

She can marry Ned without either of them compromising their values or identity (nedcy specific)

I am questioning the clue crew's relationship with tradition, progressiveness, performativeness, and masculinity

Many critiques in Ned seem to actually be rooted in gendered thinking and gendered policing. Men irl are critiqued in similar ways when they do not perform the most socially accepted behaviors associated with masculinity.

I hate how the Hardy Boys franchise portrays women 95% of the time.

Gendered thinking is everywhere, even when you think it isn't there.

I should make this a thesis.

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