#but i have so much to say about nandor in this scene

[deliciousnecks]

Go on, Guillermo. I bonked this one on the head just for you.

[gideonisms]

I'm torn on whether I should watch s2 of the pirate show on one hand I am not really about those heartwarming middle aged guy ships on the other hand taika's arms still look great

[nadjasnandor]

what I don't understand is like .... they wrote the guillermo and nandor dynamic the way they did AND made both of them queer. like. nobody asked them to do ANY of that. so turning around and mocking everyone who very reasonably looked at what the writers of this show wrote and said "they are written like a couple" is just a baffling thing to do. imho

Exactly. And if you don't mind, I'm going to use your ask as an excuse to write out why I'm upset about certain things, because what you said is the root of my problem.

My disappoint doesn't come from Nandor/Guillermo not going canon in the traditional sense (at least not fully), but from the very 2010s-esque way everyone seems to be talking about fans post-finale. Basically saying they never intended Nandor & Guillermo to be anything but platonic and blaming the weird fans for wanting their pornographic whishes (🙄) to actually happen in the show, like they were not in any way responsible for creating those wishes, is insulting but, more importantly, not true. And they can't convince me otherwise because I was there, watching the whole thing unfold in real time.

I already mentioned being remotely normal about Nandor/Guillermo pre season 3 and there is a reason for that. During the first season the fandom was small. And by that I mean both Nandor/Guillermo shippers and also the people watching wwdits in general. During season 1, sometimes all you saw when going into the tags was about 5 of my gifsets in a row, for instance. Even if people watched the show, they didn't really interact with it in a fandom-y way. During the middle of s1, I complained about there not being Nandor/Guillermo fics at all and even between s1 and s2 I posted about there not being a lot. It was also this era when the first mentions of possible canon romantic feelings were brought up and it was by Harvey himself, who said he thinks Guillermo has feelings for his boss. This was, of course, only Harvey explaining how he views his character but I feel it's important because, as it's been mentioned before, Harvey came up with a lot of Guillermo's character, starting with his surname. He basically created current Guillermo. In the original pilot script, Guillermo is a 40-something, very bitter man. Quite different from our Guillermo and it's all thanks to Harvey.

But during this period, that is during s1 and s2, anything romantic between Nandor and Guillermo was purely accidental and mostly due to Kayvan and Harvey's chemistry. We all knew this, even if by s2 we did get the first articles about Nandor & Guillermo's relationship being maybe not fully platonic. By the end of season 2, the fandom has grown for sure but it was still nowhere near its current size. We also had Nandor say he treated Guillermo like a son, which was quite annoying but we at least knew where we stood with the show. Didn't stop us from shipping those two, of course, because fandoms have survived on less (Looking back, it is funny how much I hated that line when now it's just *vaguely gestures around*). It's important to note that after season 2, Jemaine left and Paul took over. And then came season 3.

There is a reason why I was so insane about the Cloak of Duplication and then Gail. The former canonized Guillermo's feelings for Nandor on screen for the first time and the latter showed that it was not just a single episode, throw away scene. Instead they continued with Guillermo being jealous of Nandor and his sexual partner. That was huge. But the fandom still hasn't blown up fully, that happened later during season 3. And I think it's important to say that because they wrote and filmed season 3 before the show blew up. They cannot say they wrote those scenes to please (or bait) fans. They weren't 'pressured' to do anything with Nandor and Guillermo. Season 3 was also when the very heavy Nandor/Guillermo promoting started. (Like the parody of The Bodyguard poster with 'Never fall in lo-', for example). Now, I don't remember if the first articles calling them the will-they-won't-they couple of the show came out during this season or later, but it was definitely past season 3. So by the end of season 3 the fandom has grown large and people were obviously very into the ship.

Now we can say shippers are pushy or annoying but fans can be annoying in general. People can be annoying lol. When your show grows big enough, annoying people you don't like are going to watch it too. (I'm sure if those annoying people are cishet men then this burden is easier to bear but I digress. I am a little bitter, after all). But at this point, fans had no reason to be pushy, we thought every sign was pointing to canon romantic Nandor/Guillermo.

At this point, the show saw how large the fandom has grown and how invested people were in Nandor/Guillermo. If that's not what they wanted, if they felt people were seeing things differently than how they intented, they could have pulled back. They had enough time between season 3 and season 4 to do that. But they didn't. Instead, they doubled down and continued to do the same for 2 more season. Even if by season 5 the latest we already had Paul saying weird things about the dynamic.

Instead it seems they decided to pull back in season 6 but by then it was too late. People were expecting them to come through on the thing they have been teasing for 3 seasons. And then they blamed the fans for not liking what they offered up instead. For wanting 'pornographic scenes'. Because it's 'not that kind of a show'. They say this about a show with an episode called The Orgy.

And even while saying all that, they didn't stop them from teasing the fans until the very last moment. Nandor's 'you know what would be cooler than being friends' is just cruel lmao. And that's why it felt more like mocking to me. Not only because of what happened in the show, but because when I watch those scenes, I can't seperate them from how the cast and crew talk about the ship and the fans in interviews. They apparently now think it's stupid and weird but will gladly tease it in the show for whatever reason? It's funny because fans are weird and kinky, I guess. Things unheard of in relation to this show.

I also don't understand Kayvan and Harvey's complete 180 turn. During the early seasons, Kayvan was not really into the idea of the ship, saying it's a bit toxic due to the power imbalance in their dynamic but he seemed to go full throttle later, even overtaking Harvey in hyping the ship up. And then in the first post-finale interview, he says that 'Nandor is never going to have sex with Guillermo', even if the show left that door open with the last scene. And then there's Harvey, who was the first to say Guillermo has feelings for his boss, who is now championing the repserentation of platonic gay male friendships on tv. In his case, I can give him the benefit of doubt, because he must have his own experiences with that and it's not my place to dismiss or doubt them. I do find the change strange and have complained about it but it's more understandable than Kayvan's. (EDIT: I didn't read this interview after the finale but it just makes things even more confusing, if I'm honest.)

I tried to be as coherent as possible and write out all my thoughts about this topic but I most likely still missed some things. I don't really like to talk about my feelings and thoughts this elaborately because I find it difficult to fully express myself but I tried my best because I felt like I was going insane.

[sbocconichilista]

"But just like Jordan said, it's about being the right fit. And maybe that's what we were. Or weren't."

(WWDITS S6EP4 SPOILERS)

I love this scene. I love seeing Guillermo proving himself at work not just in front of his colleagues, but also with the ones he knows (Nandor in this case), and that's so much more difficult.

Even though this isn't (and i'm gonna make a pretty much obvious statement here) about work. It's about them. It's about Nandor not being able to give Guillermo what he wants. It's about Guillermo not being able to give Nandor what he wants. It's about them not being able to completely commit to one another ("Nandor couldn't make me a vampire, and I can't make him a janitor"). And I know well this is a comedy, that it's not that deep, that this will probably end up in dust and mean nothing, but still I like to imagine that there's a subtle layer about this that suggests a change in the relationship between Nandor and Guillermo.

But that's not just me, is it? Guillermo knows it too. That this is gonna end being about them two and not just about work. He says it just before going to fire Nandor: "...just like Jordan said, it's about being the right fit. And maybe that's what we were. Or weren't." And when Nandor says he's proud of him, that Jordan is right for seeing all Guillermo's qualities, it's because now he aknowledges them too. Nandor knows how special Guillermo is, and for how much his pride wants him to prove himself as superior, as a Master, as a fierce warrior, he can't lie to himself anymore: Guillermo is better than him. And he made Nandor better too.

Guillermo keeps talking about work, that "we, as a company, have to let someone go", but he knows it's not just that. It's him who has to let Nandor go. He tried hard to protect Nandor's feelings and ego, and not just now: he has been Nandor's shield for so long. Now he has to reject him, to push him back. Now he's the sword who stabs him. And this time it's not about a stupid fight, it's not something that will end there and be gone in the next episode. This seems so much more solemn.

Although, this is not the end of it, it's just Guillermo stepping back. This time is Nandor who reaches for Guillermo's hand to shake it (and i mean he LITERALLY does it, no metaphor). Now it's him who has to do a step towards Guillermo.

(Honestly I have so much more to say about this specific scene, but I don't want this ending up being too long, so that's it for now)

[billpottsismygf]

Finally some good fucking food! Thank you, wwdits writers! I can only rave about this episode. It was enjoyable throughout, but it really kicked into gear with Nandor's initial protectiveness at realising that this new job was taking advantage of Guillermo just as much as Nandor ever was.

That scene with Jordan saying he had something better for Guillermo than a speech, letting him think it would be a promotion, had me saying "it's the pilot again" out loud. And then the portrait came out. I love that they weren't too on the nose about it, but anyone who remembers the glitter portrait will understand the significance of it, and will feel the full joy of Guillermo flipping out rather than just accepting it.

God, the adrenaline surge when he started shouting at Jordan and then broke the stake off the desk. Honestly, he should have just staked the guy. Still, it was even more satisfying to 1) have Nandor rushing in to defend him and then 2) let Guillermo take Jordan down for all his dodgy business dealings.

The final couple of scenes between Nandor and Guillermo are what I've been waiting for all series. Clearly the writers didn't know how to pad out the time before they got here, because we've had almost nothing between them until this point, but now that we've got here I'm so fucking pleased. They're working together again! Guillermo's in the house again! Nandor is recognising and lauding Guillermo's status as a warrior again! Whatever the final episode brings, I'm glad at least that they're spending time together again.

[contact-guy]

go to sleep!!!

Never read them or knew much about them besides the basics. then eight months ago my spouse was like 'have you ever seen the Guy Ritchie Sherlock Holmes films? feel like you would like them', knowing my propensity for dynamics involving unhealthy devotion (see: frodo and sam; gideon and harrow; guillermo and nandor). At one point during the second film I lay down on the floor. at another point I had to pause it to do several laps of our house. needless to say I haven't been the same since. does my spouse regret this? impossible to say.

1 - loved LOVED drawing the moor in hound of the baskervilles! so moody. so much atmosphere. such a lack of straight lines.

2 - people are pretty great at noticing things but...Holmes is still kind of afraid to touch watson here c:

3 - I was making a list of canon scenes I wanted to draw and realized that like.....nearly every story had something. but I wasn't committed until I found myself drawing a conversation between Watson and Colonel Hayter in the Reigate Squires and was like 'oh no I've gone and given myself a narrative'

[anxietycheesecake]

The lack of media literacy in this fandom is wild.

They basically said 'in your wildest dreams, here's a scenario that could have been the ending. And to highlight just how much this couldn't or didn't happen, here are two other endings that couldn't possibly happen' and people somehow came to the conclusion that this scene was remotely canon when it was the exact opposite.

It was imperative to somebody that the show fully clarifies that Nandor and Guillermo do not and will not fuck. They need the audience to know that and The Guide was once again used as a wedge to drive home that Nandor and Guillermo are platonic and only platonic. Nandor finds The Guide physically attractive and is romantically attracted. Whether his motivations are selfish and would fizzle upon realization is irrelevant because it's canon that he is into her and if you drew a venn diagram with his feelings for The Guide and Guillermo, there would be little overlap. That was the entire purpose of Guidmor this season and nearly the only purpose The Guide served. Friends, best friends, partners, in love with The Guide - they are circling this shit with a bright red marker.

And yeah, much of the direction they've taken on Nandor and Guillermo's relationship and taking jabs at shippers is because the fanart, fanfic, and general shipping made Simms uncomfortable and I'll die on that hill. The 'ick' is palpable in every one of those interviews where he says it wouldn't be profound enough, 'do people really want to see that? Really?' or that it would be problematic. They literally pivoted in the aftermath of season 3 and 4 because of the reception.

Tell me that in a world without social media, in a world where they didn't see how fans reacted, Nandor and Guillermo's relationship would have played out as it did. Tell me that it was in good faith and not damage control. Tell me they didn't want to kill that narrative while not losing viewership.

Tell me that this isn't the very manifestation of queer content being fun until it's more than a joke.

It's actually okay to be hurt if you create fan content and it makes a homophobic person uncomfortable, instead of telling yourself that couldn't possibly be how a showrunner, writer, or company really feels about something you care about and have invested in. It's a hard, shitty thing, especially when they dangled that ship to the point of using 'Nandermo' in promotional material. It's okay for others to be upset by this and have a myriad of personal or impersonal reasons for being offended, sad, angry. Our reaction isn't an attack on fans who are satisfied, and you don't have to rationalize an ugly truth when somebody is in the wrong and hurting real people. Simms is the one in a position of power here, not fans on Tumblr. He can absolutely steamroll the writers and actors on this if he wants to, and it can be seen in interviews, such as the one with Stefani. As I said in my previous ask, Harvey is a real gay person who has to smile and nod while his boss repeatedly uses these talking points to delegitimize gay relationships right in front of him like we're in the early 2000s.

Fuck that shit. This conduct is appalling and you have every right to be disgusted.

Thank you so much, bestie, the gaslighting got me thinking I was insane. Like good for people who are satisfied, but I think you should be able to see the whole picture beyond your own feelings. If nandermo had gone canon and everything else was the exact same, I'd complain about the lack of proper development and closure for everyone else, while being ecstatic for my beloved blorbos. Because you can aknowledge when shitty things happen even if you personally find them gratifying.

[veryintricaterituals]

I know I'm a perfect stranger, but I'm a fellow fan, and I need to vent this shit to someone. That was the most heartbreakingly dissappointing and infuriatingly insulting half hour of television I've ever personally experienced. Especially because they had Guillermo there as the perfect audience stand-in relating to all of our pain. I was in tears watching him desperately grapple for some kind of character development, meaning, revelation, resolution, something, ANYTHING. Amid unfunny and often straight up insulting, callous jokes at his and our expense. Plot points brought up and left unresolved, character development left uncompleted. All the obvious Nandermo hints straight up queerbait, Nandor will remain romantically lonely and never discover the love "right under his nose" that was obviously seemingly intended to be Guillermo, Colin will never know Lazlo really raised and cared for him, Memo too, Guidja was never going to happen, Lazlos Dad locked in the closet with Colins Funkos seemingly hinting at making a comeback, not happening. Jerrys betrayal arc anticlimactic, badass parts of Guillermos last fight scenes with his cousin pointlessly cut for unfunny pointless bullshit, Nadja never getting an independent business or whatever, Guillermo and Sean mortal and destined to die and be lost to their friends forever someday. WHY THE FUCK DID COLIN BEAT HIM!?? they were hinting towards him being an EV but now that scene makes no fucking sense missing an opportunity to also explain where EVs come from. The Guide being pushed to the wayside. None of the other characters were brought up again. 3 fake endings obviously meant to insult us for, of course, being upset by this real bullshit one, one of them insulting us for wanting the Nandermo they had hinted at themselves, needlessly stretched between 3 episodes. The shitty Nandermo mocking 'cameras off' comment near the end. We were strung along with Guillermo for SIX FUCKING YEARS, and all of it wasted, none of it mattered. It was all pointless. The writers didnt care. And by the end seemed to hate us for loving and being attached to the show they made for so long and wanting more, and wanting Nandermo, which they set up, and just queer ship rep that they had been setting up in the first place. I guess you could say Guillermo grew the most, but I would've liked to see more about where he ended up. They had the option of another episode they turned down. There was just so, so, much wasted potential with what this show could have been and how much more time could've been spent on it without 'jumping the shark' as Waititi claims if it had competent, progressive, brave, writers who gave a shit all the way through and it didnt need to have constant jokes later on with less dramatic breathing room. They just wanted to be done with it. I can see now why Matt Berry seemed so unenthusiastic in interviews and apparently Harvey seemed annoyed with Simms in promos, and that comment he made in an interview about his last moments on set reminding him of Titanic and "Nandor and Guillermo finally being able to be, y-know" So fucking heartbreaking him experiencing this after getting invested in these characters and their relationship as a queer man himself. I was sitting there watching Guillermo walk into the foyer and just sit there silently defeated in tears, staring into the void as the other characters sang "we'll meet again" in the background, and I'm just crying with him.

The good thing about fandom is that we're all perfect strangers and great friends at the same time, as high school musical once said: "we're all in this together".

Go ahead and vent in my comments! Scream your truth! They fucked with us!

I guess I'm actually not that angry because I could see it coming from a mile away, I feel like I've been grieving this show since season five ended and they destroyed Guillermo's arc, I just didn't think it'd be this bad.

There's just nothing there, no purpose, no aspirations, no character development. I get what they were going for, they been trying to ram it in since season 4 "Vampires don't change and everything stays the same" but the problem is that they have changed and significantly so throughout the seasons, they have grown and learned and loved and lost.

It's just fucking disappointing and such wasted potential, like not even thinking about Nandermo, but in general. They couldn't give an ending to any other character because they had destroyed their characters and arcs so completely there was nothing to say. And they knew that, they had a whole season to figure it out and instead just went, ehh let's use Guillermo as a stand in for the audience and gave us nothing anyway.

I have so many thoughts because I've been watching since season 1 and ughhh, I have so many drafts that I'll be posting in the next few days. All I'm going to say is thank G-d I have interview with the vampire because I would be way more devastated if I didn't have beautifully written gay vampire media to fall back on.

Anyway feel free to come and vent to me!! It's the way to get through this! also we're totally friends now 💜💜

[darkshrimpemotions]

Light & Framing in WWDITS: Nandermo Edition

I really have to give props to whoever does the lighting and cinematography for What We Do In The Shadows. They took what could easily have been an excuse to cheap out on those things--the show's format as a half-hour comedy mockumentary--and said a resounding fuck that.

Every frame of this show is gorgeously and thoughtfully lit and shot and colored, and not just the big pivotal moments. Truly every shot. The sets and the costumes also do a lot of heavy lifting here, but still everything is framed so carefully and intentionally. And considering this show is at least 55% fucking improv? That is seriously impressive. I've seen big budget network cornerstone series take less care with their most pivotal moments than this show takes with like...any random moment (I know, I know, it's okay, I can say Game of Thrones).

Take this shot for example (thanks to @indashadows!):

Now bear in mind, this is ONE shot in ONE scene in an episode. An important scene, but not a long one. And yet in this scene, every single detail--from the actors' body language to the framing to the lighting to their fucking outfits--reinforces the underpinning context and subtext of the scene.

Look at Nandor. His posture is so open and vulnerable. He's facing directly toward Guillermo, looking slightly up at him actually instead of down at him like he usually would be. They're almost eye level but not quite. His face is fully lit, and his body is more in light than shadow, with the parts facing Guillermo lit and the parts facing away from him in deep shadow.

Nandor is being very open, honest, and vulnerable with Guillermo in this scene, probably more so than he's ever been before! All the pretense, the aloofness he usually hides behind is now shoved to the back. They're also on nearly equal footing compared to their usual situation, with Guillermo possibly having a slight upper hand due to how thrown everyone, including Nandor, is by the revelation that he's a vampire slayer.

(I know Nandor knew he killed Carol and the Baron, but given those were both accidents I think it's reasonable to say Nandor was still surprised about the slayer from a long line of notorious slayers aspect of the revelation.)

Another way to read this is that Nandor is at a disadvantage because of what he doesn't know in this scene, i.e. that Guillermo can leave any time he wants, that Guillermo has been listening to their conversations, and that Guillermo is using that information now to manipulate him. It's left somewhat up to interpretation whether Nandor actually knows any of this or not, so YMMV there. But the point stands that in either interpretation, Nandor is on his back foot here a bit and the framing and lighting of the scene reflects that.

Now contrast that with Guillermo. His posture is closed off, he's hunched in on himself. He's leaning toward Nandor, but he's not facing him or looking at him directly. His eyes are downcast. He's positioned a little above Nandor, but he's not acknowledging or reveling in that change of position in any way; in fact, he seems to be minimizing it with the way he's standing. Almost his entire body including his face is in shadow, with only the parts facing away from Nandor receiving any light.

Guillermo is not being vulnerable, open, or honest with Nandor in this moment. Whether Nandor knows everything or not, Guillermo thinks he's playing Nandor here. He thinks he has information Nandor isn't privy to (the hole in the cage and the hidden cameras) and knows things Nandor doesn't know he knows (the conversations he's overheard). Guillermo is normally much more open and vulnerable with Nandor, which often results in him getting his feelings (at the very least) hurt. But this is one time when he's consciously choosing to push his care for Nandor to the backburner in order to take care of himself for once.

(I also have FEELINGS about light representing emotional honesty and vulnerability between these two characters in the show about vampires and what they do in the shadows. Maybe I'll scream about them later.)

And here's the real kicker: they are so in odds with their approach here, their usual roles in the relationship are being reversed in ways neither is fully comfortable with...and yet they're still on the same damn page.

They both have the same ultimate goal in this scene: to get Guillermo out of the cage and have the other vampires in the house accept him and stop insisting on killing him. They are both trying to take care of Guillermo in their own ways. And as the show often does, it underscores this in part via the similarities in their outfits (but that is a WHOLE other fucking massive meta-post currently sitting in my drafts).

[bugeater77]

Nandermo things u probably forgot about

not in any order(i wrote them whenever i remembered them)

(scroll down for images, the ones pictured are highlighted) - Nandor holding guillermo up to make him feel like he is flying multiple times (quite possibly nandermo hug)

During the simon the devious episode where nandor once again takes him flying, they hold hands (last image)

Nandor telling guillermo to stay by his side until he falls asleep in the curse episode, then going to grab his hand but stopping (5th Image)

"you'll probably have to take it in the waist and out the shoulders" - guillermo knowing Nandor's exact measurements

Nandor getting so frustrated while talking about the other vampires wanting to kill Guillermo that he kicks and destroys a box

"take a picture of me having fun and then send it to guillermo so he knows how much I do not miss him" - nandor

Guillermo DROPPING EVERYTHING ON THE GROUND when he hears about nandor's engagement

"it's not gonna last." -Guillermo SHIT EATING GRIN after realizing that gale and nandor are not gonna be together

Guillermo PUTTING HIS ARM AROUND NANDOR AFTER THE GAIL EPISODE he thought he had a chance :( (4th image)

Sean calling Guillermo Nandor's boyfriend and lazlo not questioning it not one bit

pulling guillermo back way before he was supposed to after trying to use him as bait for the sire

this was also while he was shaking his money maker if i might add

like the second he did it...

entire scene where Nandor tries to convince guillermo to come back from celeste

ENTIRE HOMOEROTIC FIGHT SCENE

might i mention that nandor obviously thinks guillermo fighting him is hot??!

Guillermo gripping nandor plushie after he leaves (3rd image)

Guillermo has silver lined seatbelts in his car, meaning he was planning to rescue nandor for a while

"traveling the whole world with my nand- master" - guillermo

ermmmmmm glitter portrait ?!!

Nandor wishing to be human the SAME AMOUNT that guillermo wishes to be a vampire, seeing him as an equal

"my furry little friend" - nandor

Marwa, who likes EVERYTHING nandor likes, kissing guillermo all over his face

The wwdits cast interview about nandermo, which to me feels like a deep extreme very canonization

Nandor's pure jealousy after finding out about guillermo becoming a vampire

Him waiting for SO LONG outside of panera bread

Going to guillermos house to look at his baby pictures

talking about his goth phase with his mom...

"if i'm lying, kill me now" - nandor

Nandor being so upset and holding guillermos body after thinking he was dead

Nandor grasping guillermos sweater

speaking out against the baron to keep guillermo safe, which if you watch season 1 again you'll see that he is TERRIFIED of the baron

so excited to talk about guillermo killing vampires.... wtf is wrong with u nandor but we're not gonna get into that

"I will fix"

PUTS ON GUILLERMOS CAPE

he is so excited to kill derek, not to turn guillermo human, but literally just to kill derek out of jealousy

Nandor's face while guillermo is talking about his love life(second image)

Guillermos face after Nandor turns Gail into a vampire (first image)

guillermo hammering the door as hard as possible to wake nandor for his super slumber.

duh nandor knowing every part of Guillermos thank you card

The entire last episode actually?

theres absolutely more but this is all i remember just from my brain

(new additions) In another cast interview, Kayvan Novak says “I think he’s coming to the realization that his type is Harvey Guillén flavored.” about nandors type

Nandor makes guillermo spin around in his wedding cape

Nandor says he got the idea of having a wedding ever since him and guillermo "watched the wedding planner on that rainy sunday together"

ok listen closely, the wedding planner is about a woman planning a wedding falling in love with the groom causing him to leave the bride

he did NOT CARE WHO HE WAS MARRYING. BUT HE KNEW HE WANTED GUILLERMO TO PLAN IT FROM DAY 1

[22degreehalo]

God I just keep thimking abt. The season 3 finale. And the Fight. And the Promise.

Because... yeah, Nandor's whole claim that the fight was a ~test~ to see if he was ~strong enough~ just reeks of bullshit. It comes out of nowhere and we have no reason to think Nandor especially feels in danger of anything at this point...? Like Guillermo has already saved them from the whole damn vampire council. What more could he even have to prove lol.

But if not that... why such a sudden change of heart? Is he just embarrassed he got beat and trying to regain his place of authority? But even by Nandor's standards that's such a HUGE leap for such a small thing. Turning Guillermo is the ONE THING he's never even properly contemplated doing up until this point. Also, if he weren't actually fully serious and solemn, there's no way he'd pull off that act. He'd ruin the moment in 2 seconds.

His comment after Guillermo leaves doesn't reveal much, either. Like, yes, he was caught off guard that Guillermo was fast, but is that all he has to say? There's definitely more to this scene, so that's an almost suspiciously obvious statement. Like it's not out-of-character, it's just... the viewer expects an explanation, but doesn't get it.

Frankly, the whole thing kinda bothered me. I just couldn't really get into his head about it. And that's such an important scene I really DID want to understand it. Nandor finally offered to actually turn Guillermo, and I didn't understand why!

But season 5 explains it.

He thought, finally, that Guillermo had what it takes to be a vampire.

That he could be vicious. That he could fight to the death, and kill. Not for the sake of protecting somebody else. But for his own sake.

He saw the killer in him, and he finally let himself believe that Guillermo would be able to live off the lives of innocent people and not break himself in two.

But Guillermo, as far as Nandor understood it, got cold feet. He realised that he didn't want to be a vampire and left him behind.

And even when Nandor realised later that that wasn't the case... for one, the moment's over. And for two, why didn't Guillermo seek him out? Why didn't Guillermo demand that Nandor uphold his half of the bargain? Where did that determined, vicious instinct go?

Godddd I'm trying to remember how it all went but is that why he provoked Guillermo so hard at the night market, too???? He wanted so badly to see that desperate and dangerous Guillermo again, like he might force it back out of him and reveal it is who he really is inside??????

[lord-of-the-ducks]

Ok, I'm not sure how to isolate clips from the episode, so bear with me while I verbally describe what I'm talking about, but I was rewatching s5e8 for the third time and noticed Yet Another thing that is making me go feral

So we have the scene directly after Guillermo accidentally sets the Baron on fire again, we cut back to Nadja, Nandor, Colin, and Dolly all on the couch. My brain is already broken from Nandor clinging on to that damn sweater, but that's not what I'm talking about.

Nadja is talking about the Baron hunting down Guillermo, and she very specifically avoids saying the word dead, before Colin spoils this by finishing her sentence for her.

And what I didn't notice until now was that Dolly immediately whispers at Colin to shut up, because Nandor is sitting right next to them craddling his sweater and insisting that Guillermo will be fine.

And yeah it's a really small thing, probably not worth making an entire post about it, but god, they all care about each other so much, and even though Colin can't seem to read the room, Nadja and Dolly know how upsetting this is for Nandor. I actually don't know if Dolly has really gotten the opportunity to show her affection for other members of the household besides maybe the beginning of s3e7 where she's reflecting on her time with the vampires before she runs away. But that was a specific montage, I don't think she's had a lot of small moments where she demonstrates that she also cares about her housemates

I dunno, I just didn't see anyone talking about this, which is fair because there was a LOT of stuff in this episode to digest, but I just fucking love these tiny little things that get peppered in

[deer0skullz]

Does anyone else feel like Umbrella Academy, What We Do in the Shadows and Our Flag Means Death went down very similar paths or is that just me?

To preface, this is mostly based on how I felt as I watched the shows but also on some of the opinions I picked up from the fandoms.

Also, I’m not going to go back and rewatch all of these shows for the sake of a Tumblr post so I’m working from memory and if you feel like I’ve misremembered any of the plot/ characters let me know.

1. Started as well-received and highly acclaimed live-action fantasy shows with ensemble casts.

Based on my own opinions and what I remember from other fans, UA seasons 1-2 were fairly well received, as were WWDITS seasons 1-3/4 and OFMD season 1.

They’re all definitely different genres of fantasy but I’d say they still all fit under the label. And they obviously all have ensemble casts, with the Hargreeves in UA, the vampires (and Guillermo) in WWDITS and the pirates in OFMD. Even though the plots and characters can be quite different they all have similar vibes.

2. Noted for having open queer representation.

Klaus and Viktor in UA, pretty much the entire main cast of WWDITS, and multiple main characters in OFMD.

3. Tied to already established and respected creators.

UA is based on the comics written by Gerard Way who, of course, is also well known for My Chemical Romance. WWDITS is based on the film by Jermaine Clement and Taika Waititi, who are both executive producers of the show. Taika was also involved in OFMD as the actor for Blackbeard and as an executive producer. He has his name tied to many acclaimed films like Hunt for the Wilderpeople, Thor Ragnorok and Jojo Rabbit.

These are obviously not the only famous people tied to these projects but it’s just a sample of the talent involved in these shows. I feel like the fact that there was so much talent working on these shows makes my next point more interesting.

4. Experienced drops in quality and/ or introduced problematic elements that caused fans to lose interest or respect.

Again, this is opinion based and if you still liked the shows during these seasons then more power to you.

My overall feeling about all of these shows is that they lost a lot of the joy from their initial season(s) as they went on. Like, they just got significantly less fun to watch. But they also had more specific individual issues that I would like to get into.

I stopped watching UA during season 3 and don’t plan on watching season 4. I feel like a lot of people will already know what I might be referring to with this but yeah, the scene where Allison *did that* to Luther made me so sick. I feel like that season absolutely destroyed her character, and as I said, it just wasn’t anywhere near as fun as seasons 1 or 2.

WWDITS is probably the most successful of the three in my eyes but I could still apply the same argument about loss of enjoyment. The “Guillermo wants to be a vampire” plot line got very stale for me, especially with how they “resolved” (?) it. Saying “oh he’s a vampire now oh nevermind he doesn’t actually like being a vampire and also can’t be one anyway so everything’s back to normal” felt like such a waste of time for me. I know a lot of people also criticised the show for queerbaiting because of the Nandermo plot lines and teases. I wouldn’t necessarily call it queerbaiting but I would agree that the “will they, won’t they” is very played out at this point. Another big criticism I have of the later seasons is how Marwa was treated. The fact that she had no autonomy and was being forcibly changed mentally and physically to appeal to Nandor was treated as like, a running joke and I just found it kind of disturbing. Dark humour is pretty common throughout the show, but given how often her character appeared it felt a lot more, significant than throwaway jokes about drinking human blood. I feel like they could have done so much better with her character.

OFMD is probably the most egregious example of the 3. Season 2 was just not good. I’m not saying it was the worst thing I’ve ever watched but it was incredibly disappointing. The pacing was off, the characters were off, the dynamics were off. It was all just very off. The huge cliffhanger ending with Evil Blackbeard felt like it was resolved way too quickly and everything else in the season felt equally rushed. A lot of the character dynamics, but especially Ed and Stede, just felt wrong to me. From what I understand there were production issues or something so I’m not saying the writers just woke up one day and decided to be bad at their jobs but I can only really judge a show by what I saw on my screen, and what I saw was so far removed from the quality of season 1.

5. Finished on a sour note.

UA ended after 4 seasons, with the fourth being released on Netflix today. I haven’t seen anything that indicates whether this was the intended endpoint or whether it was cancelled. WWDITS will end after season 6 which comes out in October. Again, I can’t find anything indicating whether this was the intended endpoint. OFMD was cancelled just a few months after the release of season 2 in October 2023.

I can’t tell other fans how they should feel but for me I’m incredibly disappointed that 3 shows I really enjoyed saw a gradual (or not so gradual for OFMD) drop in quality that ultimately culminated in them just… ending.

Like I said, I have no interest in US season 4, but I am still somewhat hopeful for WWDITS. I would be really happy if they could bring it back to what it was.

Conclusion

I don’t know what the point of writing this was other than the fact that I’ve always associated these shows as having the same vibes and I feel like it’s interesting that they have a lot of similarities and went down similar paths. Also I just like yapping.

[eclairehope]

WWDITS ENDING

English is not my first language. Sorry for any mistake. It is a bit difficult translate my emotions… ( Hello from Italy)

My thoughts about WWDITS ENDING

It was perfect? Not really but I'm kinda happy with this "ending". I suppose. I'm still processing.

Nadja : This is not the end of anything. We will keep doing what we alway do. It's just these, um, camera microphone people will no longer be filming it.

This is meta and I like it. To us is an goodbye to them the characters we love, is not.

( This is comforting for me because I will miss everyone so much, especially Nadja) I admit that I was as sad as Gizmo in this episode.Nadja was so nice to try to cheer us up.

I see a lot of negativity here on Tumblr. ( I survived Game of Thrones season 8 and The umbrella Academy season 4, those are horrible endings not this one )

I think I'm one of the few satisfied people here... (but I admit that this season is not really among my favorites) Maybe because even if I love LADJA (since the beginning) and (just recently) NANDERMO I never watched the series only just for the couples. But for all the characters and their dynamics. (I loved Laszlo/Nandor and Nadja/Guillermo or Nandor/Nadja scenes)

I started watching WWDITS because I loved the original movie. The hook for me was Nadja. I fell in love with her at first and then after season one to all the others characters. ( Especially Laszlo)

WHAT WAS I HOPEFUL FOR? ( In Nadermo canon lol )

The thing that mattered most to me was that Guillermo didn't leave for good his "Vamily". And I think I'm happy with what I got.

In fact, I was already happy with the ending of episode ten.

( S6E10) Nandor: Face it, Guillermo. You're never gonna be just a normal human guy. You don't belong with them. You belong with us.

And about the topic that things never change...

Guillermo: So did the documentary ever come out?

Nandor: No. They filmed us for ten years, but then they decided that they didn't have enough good material.

Colin: Yeah, said it's just a bunch of boring people doing the same old shit day after day, nothing changes, no one ever grows, its' pointless, yada, yada.

The old TV crew says this about them, but we viewers know that things, although similar, have actually changed since then.

All the characters have changed in some way since the first season, they all changed thanks to Guillermo. They really love him.

The dynamics between Guillermo and the vampires is one of the main reasons why I love this series.

About NANDERMO

I was hoping for a hug or a (romantic) kiss, ( I'm delulu) but I like that in the end he and Nandor are finally friends. They have a more equal relationship. They don't have to work together, they can just be friends and hang out as such.

Guillermo and Nandor in the coffin together was a nice ending.

I can see why some people are upset but I knew It would be very strange if we got a proper romantic Nandermo canon kiss in front of cameras. lol

I think that eventually Nandor and Guillermo can develop a romantic relationship outside the cameras. (They leaved some hints about that) It's fine to me. The ending is open.

The FAKE ENDINGS I saw two of the three alternative endings. I first saw the "Newhart ending" with Nandermo. (Cute kiss but it was all fake T-T)

And in a reaction on YouTube I saw the "usual suspects" ending with the Guide and Colin (very funny!)

I don’t know where to watch the Nadja ending for free. Help plz

[inmyhorrorsera]

S5E8 "The Roast" thoughts:

Ok, I watched this episode three times and I'm still smiling. I love when you think and episode is gonna be about something because of its title and then surprise you when its all a misdirection (see also: Succession's "Connor's Wedding").

At first Laszlo's err… state intrigued me, love everyone projecting and imposing their own insecurities (Guillermo's secret, Nadja's hex) as a reason on why he is behaving like that. And of course it's a stupid reason 😭.

"And a flat pepsi for Guillermo". Oh Nandor, that's the worst thing you ever done to Guillermo, that's the worst thing you could do to anyone. And yes, I remember a certain S4 episode.

I screeched like a bird when Colin mentioned dreaming about being a baby under Laszlo's care, not only because I wanted this shit to happen since the past finale, but also I really thought the episode was going on that direction (and also bc its another W for my predictions).

Having said that, LOVED the nonchalance of Nadja and the others when they were like 'no, it wasn't a dream, that totally happened'.

I mentioned it in a separate post: they really had a Sweet Dee in IASIP moment when The Guide gave the roast idea, only to be ignored and then the same idea being stolen by a dude who is celebrated.

Seanie's poor brain it should be soup at this point, we don't know if he can hazily remember the event like it happened before.

What can I remember is his line after Nadja's roast because it was one of the biggest laughs for me: "Women CAN be funny!" I fucking loved it so much, it's the perfect condescending shit straight men say all the time, even when they're trying to be complementary to you they can't stop being garbage. It was a simple line but Anthony nailed the delivery and timing. Seriously, rewatch that part.

At first I was confused why all the jokes were so mid, but shortly I realized this episode wasn't about the roast at all, lol.

Just by watching screenshots of other users I noticed that in the scene of Nandor resting his head on Guillermo's shoulder there's a BIG flame between them. LMAO. There's no way that is unintentional.

Good for The Guide being the catalyst of Baron Afanas learning the truth. I was demanding more screen time for her lately, so having some incidence in the main plot goes on the plus column.

The other guests present at the roast being shocked at the knowledge of Guillermo killing vampires surprised me; I always assumed Guillermo being a familiar/slayer was a known fact in the vampire community after his very public massacre at the Théâtre des Vampires.

Fuck yeah when I realized this is a Doug Jones spotlight episode, I just fuckin ahgdjkaksdf, love him, perfect, no notes.

The Baron being terrifying!! Guillermo was seriously scared for the others and he barely tried to show off his Van Helsing abilities.

Nandor and Nadja begging the Baron to not hurt Guillermo!! 😭 Them being dragged while grabbing the cape!! 😭 They're spiritual siblings to me!! 😭😭

They really reminded me a little bro and sis begging their mom to not hit their beloved older brother with the chancla for talking back or something.

I fell for the two fake-outs with the sack lol I'm so gullible when it comes to vampires I guess.

NANDOR PAINFUL SOUNDS (MOANS???) WHEN HE BELIEVED HE WAS IN FRONT OF GUILLERMO'S INERT BODY. IT WAS SAD BUT ALSO A LITTLE HORNY!!!

"At least he died doing what he loved: beating off in the toolshed."

A wonderful small detail: After Laszlo opened fake Guillermo with the knife he cleaned his hands on The Guide's dress.

Idc if you think its dark, the whole 'Nandor will kill you and then kill himself' bit becoming a recurring joke it's peak writing.

I wish I can say something more serious about Baron Afanas' sadness over how boring his life is now. But I just keep thinking that the way he talks about his homelife with The Sire and the Hellhound sounds exactly when a dude has a middle life crisis and suddenly he doesn't enjoy his marriage anymore. They're husbands!! And I loved how cunty he looked at the end all half-charred (see posted gif) Queen!

Now, the Nandermo of it all: What more can I say than incoherent screaming and foaming from the mouth? Episodes 8 are all about them again!! Nandor on the window looking all cliched melancholic heroine of a romance novel?? How relieved he was when he found him in the coffin??? Him still remembering Guillermo's card word for word???!! Knowing that this toxic dark sided devotion goes both ways???!!! Borrowing the words of Fleabag: THIS IS A LOVE STORY.

Seriously, I know all these soft Nandor moments are here so the heartbreak when he learns about Guillermo being turned it's even bigger. But still denying that there is a romantic undertone between these two it's just being purposely adamant at this point (i'm looking at you wwdits reddit). Even if nothing explicitly romantic happens on screen, just by watching these moments, I know, we know.

Now, go listen to the ending song again. You will not regret it.

[billpottsismygf]

Well, I finally got my wish for Guillermo to get to use his slaying abilities again! And it was great, but it didn't quite reach what I was hoping for. He got to swoop in and save the day, and he got to prove himself to his cousin, but he arrived very late and the cameras seemed to focus more on Miguel than on him. More importantly, though, after that scene he's just gone. He rescues them, then the vampires are back home with the Baron and Guillermo isn't there. There's no follow up with him and his cousin about what happened, no indication of how Guillermo feels to use his skills again etc.

This also goes for his relationship with the vampires in general. The episode opens with him being excluded from the 'vamily', then later Nandor mentions that any relative of Guillermo's is part of the family. It doesn't feel like it's actually following up on that earlier arc, though, especially since he vanishes from the episode, as mentioned, so there's no moment of acknowledging that he is still part of the family and he's clearly not invited to the second vampire meeting the day afterwards. The monster is there to menace people, but Guillermo doesn't get to do that despite being arguably far more deadly to vampires.

I liked him calling Nandor his best friend, and obviously that's meant to be complicated and weird but, not to keep bringing this up, that just doesn't feel true anymore. Nandor and Guillermo of previous seasons? Fucked up but definitely the most important person in each other's lives. This season? They've barely interacted, especially one on one. Couldn't we have had a little scene of Guillermo saying goodbye to his cousin and then telling Nandor that, despite them not spending as much time together anymore, he realised he still thinks of him as his best friend? Nandor could have been awkward about it but also sincere. Then he could have replied that he meant what he said to Miguel and of course Guillermo is part of the family. He could maybe even admit that he misses him. That also could have chimed nicely with him calling for Guillermo when he's getting ready right at the beginning. It just feels so surface level and lacking. Yet another missed opportunity.

Also we got the Guide rejecting Nandor (hooray!) but no sign that this has led to any introspection on his part.