#but going out of your way to say 'no proship' tells me there will be conflict

[asexualandalwaysshipping]

I feel like I’m being gaslit into thinking that Jilco is completely unfathomable as a ship.

Like I know it’s a pretty questionable pairing but they’re pretty questionable people. I just think the potential is not completely out of the question but people act like it’s deplorable to even consider the possibility. They hide behind the flimsy excuse that “it goes against their dynamic” when I think it would be completely in character for these two people with clear rejection and co-dependency issues to develop inappropriate feelings for each other. I went into arcane completely unaware of this ship and even I could pick up on the weird tension between the two and thought to myself “ooh, they (the writers) wouldn’t go that far, would they?” People would rather limit their ability to interpret media than even acknowledge that fictional worlds don’t always reflect the same ethical standards of reality.

I’m online now seeing all these people saying it’s sick to interpret their relationship that way when I’m pretty sure not one romantic couple (canon or noncanon) in this show is completely void of unhealthy dynamics. I’m just so confused because even if you don’t agree with it or it goes against your morals, why insist that it makes no sense at all when others might pick up on the breadcrumbs that you choose to ignore? I literally got a jumpscare during the baptism scene because I was so sure Silco was about to lean in to kiss her because the angles and the distance didn’t tell me to assume otherwise. Does that make me delusional? I don’t even know if I completely ship them but I do know that I enjoy the ambiguity of their relationship and just labeling them as simply “father and daughter” doesn’t feel like it completely encapsulates what they mean to each other.

I dunno, I’m always going to be strongly proship and anti antishipping because I like to believe every person has a reason for shipping the pairs they do that might not actually reflect their real live values because, hello, it’s fictional. If it can be agreed that a writer doesn’t condone half of the things they write about it’s safe to say the same can be said for a shipper who ships certain pairings.

[usagi-miyamoto]

Someone followed me, and I thought they were maybe neutral, but??? No??? Their comms mentioned no proship, so now I'm confused on why they're following me then?????? 😭

[pro-sipper]

Had such a fun conversation with my therapist today. Honestly I'd been wanting to bring up the whole pro/anti debacle with her just to see what she'd say and how it would stack up against what proshippers and antishippers have to say about therapy online. No points for correctly guessing which side she agreed with

I talked about my job for about 3/5ths of the time there, then segued into The Discourse by telling her about how I'd been writing daily during the first two weeks of my new job, but hadn't been as active lately

And I even asked her if she had any other chronically online clients she talked to and she reassured me that she had plenty, and even one who had kind of explained this whole debate to her before (from a proshipper stance, and how she lost a friend over it)

I explained my whole issue with her about how fandom is so deep into purity culture these days. And how reckless and raunchy it was in the 00s and how I don't want to go back to that, but there's got to be some middle ground somewhere.

I told her about some of the stuff I've written and all the weird or nasty comments I've gotten on it and how that can be discouraging. And I told her that most of my works are smut, and of those smut works, all of them have at least a little sprinkling of trauma in them. And she said that can be a good way to look at things. And used a real life example of how something could be awful but there could be good things about it too. Specifically saying that nothing is just black and white, everything has shades of grey. And that digging the little good out of the big bad is a positive thing, actually

And I told her about being a young teen and reading a fic with incest in it and having the sense not to immediately jump to "I want to recreate this in real life" and she was like "Yes, exactly. It's like this one book I read, umm..." and I was like "Flowers In The Attic?" just as a guess and she was like "Yes!" and said just because you read about something doesn't mean you want it to be your reality

And I did my best to explain the whole concept of how some people seem to think that everyone engages with fiction by putting themselves in the shoes of the main character, so if the main character is doing awful things then you must want to do awful things too. Which of course she said was in no way true

And she told me that she was such a big fan of horror movies and loved to watch those as a way to relax and unwind bc it gets her mind off her work, but that doesn't mean she wants to be a killer lol. And I had to be like "Oh no you don't understand. They think killing and torture and cannibalism is totally fine, it's just when you bring sex into the equation that people start freaking out" and she was confused at that lol

And of course she thought it was ridiculous that people can get called a pedo or a groomer or whatever other awful things over fictional stories.

So yeah it was a fun and reassuring conversation. I know I'm leaving some stuff out but I can't remember any more specifics of what was said. Plus I was talking a mile a minute bc I wanted to say everything on my mind before time was up asfdsfs it was a monumental task.

OH and I even brought up how people will literally say "well my therapist said..." just for some other people to accuse them of lying or saying their therapist is corrupt or some other bullshit which she was understandably aghast at. Because she is a licensed therapist who went to Therapy School and knows better, and is not a magical villain promoting propaganda fed to her by Big Proship to corrupt her clients. You know how it is <3

[goresuki]

my thoughts on Charlastor and Alastor calling Charlie "the daughter he never had"

this will be a very long rant/vent/whatever. also, a kind of... agressive one. if u wanna read, read it, if u don't, don't, idc and idm. I don't know if some antis take things for convenience (that way) or if they really are naive, because the fact that a manipulative guy like Alastor, whose intentions are unknown, tells Charlie that he sees her as "the daughter he never had" DOES NOT SOUND as CUTE to me as many DO seem to think it does.

I don't know if they don't realize the relationship Charlie has with her parents and how Alastor seems to take advantage of her.

From the pilot we realize that Charlie has no contact with her mother. In the series it is established that they have not seen each other for 7 years.

The first episode JUST talks about Charlie having so called "daddy issues" as her father, Lucifer, is an absentee father.

Charlie appears to NOT have had a close relationship with ANY of the two for some time (or quite some time).

The only person Charlie has is Vaggie, to protect and care for her (here's why Vaggie is so "boring", as some people call her, as she is acting as a guide/parental figure for Charlie, even though their relationship is romantic).

Where am I going with these points? That I think it's complete nonsense for people to take super-literally what Alastor has said: "you're like the daughter I always wanted to have".

Isn't it convenient for the most feared overlord (not the strongest) to approach Charlie and find that she's not as vulnerable as he thought (because Vaggie is there)? Isn't it convenient for Alastor to make a very absolute polarity between Vaggie and him in the pilot, where Vaggie comes off as the "bitter one" and he as the "fun guy"? Isn't it convenient for Alastor to PROVE to Charlie over and over again that HE knows what SHE NEEDS by pulling his tricks? And, oh, surprise… Isn't it even more convenient that when Lucifer arrives, who has a lousy relationship with his daughter, Charlie, Alastor rubs it in his face that he is doing everything that he (Lucifer) is responsible for, and furthermore, hits him right where it hurts, manipulating Charlie so that she seriously BELIEVES that Alastor REALLY sees her that way, and thus making her STILL not have a GUIDE other than HIMSELF?

I'll make it simple for you. You know how narcissists work? They will make you believe that YOU are special, and at the same time, they will ALIENATE you from your loved ones to keep gaining whatever they need from you. Charlie is, literally, his supply.

Alastor is a psychopath and narcissist. Do you really think that someone who can't genuinely empathize and love is literally going to feel affection for a grown woman who is very naive and doesn't even have power over her kingdom because she is so immature? Don't you think it is VERY OBVIOUS that he has literally said to her face: "I'm going to manipulate you in my favor because thanks to me you have all these upgrades in your stupid hotel"?

Alastor hasn't as such made a deal with Charlie, but he's winning her over in HIS way.

And I don't know who's crazier: charlastor shippers like me, who don't give a damn about canon and want to enjoy shipping WITHOUT bothering ANYONE (and don't come out with the stupidity that it's a "proship". Proshipper doesn't even mean "problematic ship", it means that you are FOR shipping whatever you want, living and letting live, without HARASSING others. Let's remember that Hazbin Hotel characters DON'T. FUCKING. EXIST. Alastor is not going to come out of the screen to say: "omg, user, thanks for defending me from those evil shippers uwu", or Charlie to say: "thanks for defending me, you're so good, user…. You're such a good person". Pro: "in favor of", shipper: "shipper, ship", however you want to call it. Don't modify terms to suit yourselves because you can tell that many don't even know how suffixes and prefixes work in words. Neither Charlie nor Alastor are going to die because someone shipped them. They are FICTITIOUS characters. The FANON is not going to change the CANON. Learn to sepparate stuff, ffs. Go out and touch grass once in a while) or antis who put on a pedestal what Alastor said, believing it as a justification to ATTACK people in the fandom who shipped something different, according to them, "problematic".

There they do forget that Alastor is a manipulator, that he is a person with a LOT of arsenal to get his way. There they forget that he IS a guy Charlie should NOT trust. There it DOES count because IT CONVENIENTS THEM. That's when the canon MATTERS to them. There it COUNTS. It doesn't matter if Charlie gets hurt because of trusting Alastor, they only see what they want to see. If you guys are going to humanize this fucking characters, at least be a little bit logical. Got me? Remember what Viv said?: "ship whatever you want, JUST DON'T HARASS ANYONE". These people say: "fuck what Viv says", but on this occasion, since she DID say something convenient for them, it DOES matter what Viv says now, doesn't it? Hypocrites.

Charlie has no one beyond Alastor, and I don't remember where I read that theory, whether it was here or elsewhere, where they talked about Alastor looking for a way to alienate the hotel itself in one way or another. That's why he doesn't use very flashy technology (Vox can travel through the latest electronics, and the hotel has an old box TV), nor does he go out of his way to provide anything of good quality (like the video camera). The hotel has its own power supply (we see this when the blackout occurs during the song between Alastor and Vox).

Alastor DOES NOT WANT Charlie as his daughter, he's just taking advantage of her to get whatever he needs to get out of her.

Charlie doesn't even seem to know exactly how her powers work, and the only person who can teach her is Lucifer, her father. And if Lucifer is out of the equation, Alastor can do whatever he wants.

He's hit Lucifer right in the jugular, and Lucifer knows that all the power in the world can't make up for the wrong he did to Charlie.

Anyway, if a real anti thinks Charlastor is problematic because "AlASTor AlreADy SaiD hE sEES hEr As a DauGhtER," I remind them that they are not dealing with a character who cares about others beyond maintaining his own status, and ffs... they're not even real. KEEP SHIPPING. KEEP DRAWING. KEEP MAKING FANFICS. FUCK THESE PEOPLE THAT TRY TO HARASS YOU, FUCK THESE PEOPLE THAT TRY TO MAKE EVERYTHING "PURE" ON A SHOW ABOUT DEMONS AND HELL. FUCK THESE PEOPLE TRYING TO MAKE A FANDOM THEIR OWN FUCKING WAY BECAUSE THEY CAN'T HANDLE THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT VIEWS. FUCK THEIR SAVIOR COMPLEX, JUST COMING AROUND WHEN IT'S ALL ABOUT CHARACTERS THAT DON'T EXIST, FEEL, OR THINK FOR THEMSELVES, BUT DISAPPEARS ANYTIME SOMEONE REAL COMES, HARASSING AND SENDING DEATH THREATS TO THEM. FUCK THESE PEOPLE, GIVING PSYCHOLOGICAL DIAGNOSES OVER A FUCKING TIKTOK VIDEO OTHER ANTI MADE JUST BASING THEIR THEORIES ON THEIR FIST RESULT ON GOOGLE. FUCK YALL, CAUSE YOU'RE THE REASON YOU WHINE ABOUT THIS FANDOM. JUST AS WE SAY IN SPANISH: O LA BEBES, O LA DERRAMAS.

[chloesinferno]

The other day I was having a conversation with my mom. I asked her why she thinks it's always the meanest girls at school who have the most friends. She told me it's because everyone is afraid of what could happen if they suddenly stopped being friends with the girl or did her wrong. And honestly, it did make me think of antis.

Antis gotta be some of the worst people I've met online. They're always going out of their way to harass proshippers. They can send death threats, tell you to kys, post your faces, send their minions after you, contact your school/work and even in some cases find where you live or get the authorites involved. Even if you're simply neutral, or don't care enough to participate in discourse, they still will do all these things to you for "supporting proship". Antis whole thing is that they're pro-harassmemt. All I'm is saying it's scary what they can do to you if you don't join their cult.

[olderthannetfic]

Re: discourse about using outliers / the worst examples of a group to justify generalizations-- this is also a problem with the femslash wank asks

I'm one of those filthy f/f folks who actually does want to see more femslash relative to mascslash, but I'm not anti-fujo or a terf or telling ppl to change their own tastes. I'm proship / SALS and kinkmato and I think fujoshi are great; I appreciate their massive contribution to fandom culture including AO3's existence itself

But some ppl seem like they just hate f/f fandoms generally and want a reason to bitch about us? and I've felt super demoralized by it whenever I read your blog lately

Like the complaints about f/f being too wholesome and fluffy and that this is somehow bad?? tumblr is C O V E R E D with cutesey fluffy bubbly m/m art using That Artstyle we all know and nobody complains about it. But when sapphic art is like this suddenly its cause we're boring sexless puritans who dont know what pussy should look like? The huge amount of kinky weird depraved f/f thats out there gets totally erased and the wholesome stuff gets scapegoated as a symbol of regressiveness.

Or the constant lecturing to "JuSt CrEaTe It YoUrSeLf" as if nobody who says they want more f/f would actually be making it??? How do you KNOW they're not making it? Are you stalking the tumblr of every ao3 f/f author to make sure they never expressed the opinion you hate , and vice versa??

Yeah a few awful ppl have been super obnoxious, terfy, or puritanical bullies with how they talk about this topic. But when you constantly bring those people up to demonize talking about it at all it feels like you're creating a taboo around it because you want those annoying lesbian feminists to shut the fuck up. Cause how dare we, right? How dare we express desire for something in a way that reminds you patriarchy exists.

You won't even let us express that we're bitter or sad about feeling like a minority even amongst other queer women. You won't let us express simple jealousy without interpreting that jealousy in the most terfy antiship bad faith way possible!

I won't defend those who actually harass ppl or moralize over ships. I won't defend anti-fujos. But when you constantly lump me in with those people just because I looked at AO3 stats and went "Hmmm, it would be cool if this was more balanced :/" or whatever it feels like you just don't want me to say anything at all

--

Is this about me personally? Yes, I agree that topics that are repetitive start to feel like an attack.

But with regards to AO3 stats, this is my pet peeve, as you probably know if you read here often, and I'm unlikely to stop being angry about it.

AO3 is extremely unusual in the history of fandom for being a very big, very multifandom site that is not m/m-specific but where m/m outnumbers other things. There have been large-ish slash archives before. There have been and still are other large, multifandom archives, from FFN and Wattpad, which are in AO3's weight class, to medium size ones like MediaMiner. The spaces that aren't m/m-specific generally have f/m vastly outnumbering m/m. They also make it harder to get stats than AO3 does.

I don't have an issue with people looking at overall fandom stats and complaining that f/f has the short end of the stick when it comes to fanfic broadly. I do object to people pulling only AO3 stats and going "The one anomalous clubhouse that looks like this is the problem" and pointing at m/m.

It's the same problem you point out, just in another direction. After being told "Okay, but the amount of m/m..." constantly for years, people are fed up and never want to hear it again. Even if it's phrased nicely. Even if the person saying it is also hurting.

[inkedberries]

Hey! Prefacing this by saying that this isn't meant to be an attack (which generally isn't a great way to start a message but I'd rather be clear about intentions) and more so genuine curiosity. Apologizing in advance for this being long; I have a tendency to overthink and overexplain.

I don't typically interact with fandom outside of like... carefully curated little microbiomes. As such I haven't really encountered the whole proship/anti shit with any amount of seriousness since probably around 2018. I personally don't put much stock into either of the terms because there's far too much grey area and for the fact that (as per my understanding) exist as ethical frameworks, and I don't care much for subscribing purely to a single framework to the exclusion of anything else in terms of personal ethics and morality. At most with friends we tend to colloquially refer to incest + pedophile ships as proships, because that's just sort-of what the term has evolved to mean most strongly (again, at least in the circles I run in). I don't consider myself anti or proship or whatever the fuck else, because I generally don't care to involve myself with that kind of fandom drama. I'll involve myself over like, matters of being anti-bigotry but the rest is just something I haven't wanted to deal with for 5-6 years. Tagging + filtering + block functions exist for a reason, and I don't need to do anything more than prevent my feed from showing me those things. I generally just hit block and move on with that kind of stuff, especially because I'm anti-censorship for a variety of reasons.

Tl;dr on that: proship/anti aren't terms I really use or subscribe to, because I feel like they oversimplify everything and conflate "drama". From my understanding, I agree with proship ideology (????) in the sense that I believe censorship only fucks over everyone, and that you can just block + filter and move on. But at the same time I see this overall conception that 'proship' means you support/condone/etc incest and pedophilia and so on, which I really truly don't. But there is this really heavy perception that proship = this person ships (usually) pedophilic or incestuous relationships. A bit reinforced for me typically because when something like that comes across my feed and I go to block the person, they generally have 'proship' in their bio. That to acknowledge that I do have some bias in that, even if I know it's a correlation/not cause thing. That all being (over)said (and I'm SO sorry again about how fucking long this is, my twitter TL is having a meltdown and I've avoided all this stuff for so long I don't know if I'm missing something? Because ethically on my end there's no reason for me to block or whatever outside of just the word proship...? Two minutes for a quick search as as far as I can tell you don't participate in anything against my own comfort/moral beliefs. so) I guess I'm asking what your definition of proship is for yourself and why people are jumping to this conclusion of dislike so instantaneously? Obviously you're under no obligation to educate me on what I presume is fucking YEARS of fandom history, nor respond publicly or even at all. I'm only asking you specifically because this is the first time I've encountered 'being proship' ≠ shipping pedophilia etc etc. I think maybe I came across it way back when as a middle schooler, but I'm not about to trust any of my opinions/recollections from when I was that age lmao. But anyways. Just genuinely curious and wanting to understand because I'm wary of reacting too-quickly just because other people are, and especially so if it's actually a total non-issue for me. Sorry again for the insane rambling in this lol

hello!! i hope you don't mind me prefacing this response too by saying to please read this out fully, if you don't agree with the starting points i've provided, i hope you still continue on reading until the end💙 i think @/frownyalfred best words the defense i would most likely stumble on if i give it a go at answering your question with my own words

and this was a post made in 2016 (where a lot of ppl say is the year anti-shippers started sprouting up) and this is honestly what i mean when i say i hate antis

if anything, antis just started the propaganda that all proshippers are incest lovers and pedophiles and people ate it up like cats who haven't had wet food in three weeks. as proven by your friend group using the term as such? that's wild to me that ppl use the term proship like that, i hope the case i'm making will change that for you and your friend group.

no, proship literally is anti-censorship. ship and let ship. antis gatekeep, police shippers and harass anyone who doesn't ship their ship the RIGHT way. and it's not just the ships you say are 'harmful' or 'immoral'. i've shipped a rarepair before and the fandom at large did not like me shipping a rarepair so they started calling me a pedophile bc i aged up said characters???????? they'll find anything and i mean ANYTHING to twist everything i say and do to make it seem like it's "okay" for me to be harassed and bullied. "oh it's okay that i'm telling this person to die because they're gross," yeah no that behavior is So Much More Normal than a person shipping two fictional characters the "wrong" way. AND YOU KNOW WHAT'S FUCKED UP? ppl BELIEVED THEM LMAOOOO

and hey no sweat, i was like you once. i didn't define myself as proship or anti bc the real world exists but then in the one space i thought i'd be free from real life speculation and surveillance i get these anti policing assholes so yeah im a proshipper now lol just to get away from that bs. i honestly just want to have fun on here without judgement but i can't even have that lol that's why im all about blocking/muting.

you say your tl is having a meltdown? well shit, they're probably calling me names on there too. probably throwing out baseless accusations without fact checking bc i'm lowlife enough not be respected or given the decency of a fact check? or saying my art wasn't good anyway? bc gatekeeping their precious kudoichi is so much more righteous, top priority that they start slandering a real life person, right? no no no one disgusting should be touching or shipping our precious kudoichi lmao i hope you see how Not Right this is. kinda makes me feel sick for real lol

and i hope you understand how harmful this is not just to my mental state but my livelihood as an artist as these people would just start policing their fellow fans and just tell them not to support or view my art because im a 'proshipper' not even that, they'd probably just straight up say i support incest and pedophilia which are?????? such STRONG accusations to make????????? now they're just buzzwords. BUZZWORDS for antis to use to defame and cancel an artist! a real life person. over their precious fictional characters. over their precious kudoichi. oh man it makes it so much more stupid if i specify the ship, what is wrong with people sometimes😭

but hey im all about blocking and muting and unfollowing if you don't like my stuff i'm 100% for that but i hope they do it on their own terms. their own thinking. not because someone told them to.

and i dunno man that behavior of not even letting their 'friends' think for themselves, that they'd bash them too if they support me, my art, kinda seems like grooming don't it? or nah no im just looking into it. it might not be that deep. but i really yeah that's why i hate antis and why im more proship.

but hey i appreciate you even taking the time to come to me in the first place and uhhh idk i hope you found what you were looking for and that i answered your bit of curiousity there!

[ineedmycoffeerightnow]

So okay there's some arguments i hear from people why Home x Wally is not valid ship, so i decided to explain these and try to counterargument them! If you have an argument of your own feel free to write it in the comments :3

1)"This is incest! They like father and son to each other"

Canon of the show is that Wally didn't know Home before the he moved into him and also he like. A Building. If we're going to build on the show's lore Its would be just popular headcanon. Just because you see them as parent and child doesn't meen everyone does く⁠コ⁠:⁠彡

Some people are like to thing that Home is a creator of the show/his soul in there. I get it too, this theory KINDA makes sense, but still... We didn't see Wally acting like Home is his creator/getting revenge on Home for make their life hell (you can count worshiping as a sight but evidence is too weak), they are pretty chill with each other! Plus, it doesn't explain why Home is doesn't like humans, and from new update we learn that Welcome home is another world, so this theory is 99,99% is false i think

2) "Home is a building!"

Eah. LIVING building. With emotions and fears. Home is fully aware and sentient, it just so happened to have a different body then the rest of the puppets

3)"Home is abusive/evil!"

I understand why some people see them having Dynamic like this, but honestly I never saw it as inherently abusive? Maybe Wally is actually obsessed with Home, or maybe it’s the opposite, or they’re both crazy about each other, but it could also just that they act the way they do because of their self awareness. I do also think they’re overprotective of each other as well.

I just can’t see them *not* having any kind of close relationship, I mean Wally literally takes care of her, serenades him, and even blows them kisses and Home does similar gestures back at him! The feeling is mutual here.

3)"Wally is worshiping Home! Its unhealthy"

The only evidence of Home being worshiped by Wally is "so bellow" page.

I know technically it could’ve been used as evidence as Wally worshiping Home as a god but I think there are many other ways to interpret that drawing on the site… Like, I don’t think Wally is viewing her as some powerful entity, I think Wally is just obsessed with he. Not in a worshipping way but more like in a “you mean everything to me and I wouldn’t let anyone come between us” way. Also because of how Home’s eye’s are, the drawing could’ve easily been outside just as it could’ve been inside (we can’t really tell since it’s all black). And even if it was inside, I don’t think that means Wally can’t leave Home, honestly I don’t even think he’d want to anyway. They’re both mutually bonded to each other

3)"Wally/Barnaby is canon, so you can't ship Wally with Home"

First. Wally/Barnaby isn't confirmed canon. Yes, there have been many, and I mean MANY, hints at this ship. I personally think that in fact in near future it is going to be canon. Second. Im still allowed to do whatever i want with them. They are my comfort ship, they make me happy and it doesn't hurt anyone.

So, what's conclusion?

People like to think that their personal disliking of the ship is a valid point to bully shippers. They would make TONS AND TONS of excuses just to make others dislike it too. "They like son and father!", "They are abusive!", "This is proship, its gross!' despite not having evidence at all. Idk why ppl so scared to say "I don't personally like Home/Wally, its not for me" and go with their lifes. It much easier then to digging internet searching for art of them two and then show it to others saying: " LOOK HOW GROSS IT IS!!! SHIPPERS OF THIS SHIP IS TOTALLY UNHINGED!!!! How lucky we are not to be this stupid 😉😉😉"

It hurts. A little.

Life is so much better when you just not interact with things you don’t like, wish more people realised that tbh. Especially in fandom, because people get so mad over ships and headcanons when they could just…. Not interact? The more you seek out the content, the more it’ll appear in your feed because it’s how a for you page works. The algorithm shows you things it thinks you will like based off previous posts you’ve viewed……

Like I’m just shipping these silly little puppets together and making headcanons I’m not hurting anyone 😭

Thanks to @serillian for helping me with this one -⁠ᄒ⁠ᴥ⁠ᄒ⁠-

[rius-cave]

It’s a bit strange that you only added “pro shipper” to your bio after someone felt uncomfortable that they spent money on your rape fetish comic without realizing that’s what it was (after which you literally blamed them for not assuming it was, despite no content warnings being anywhere, which was the only thing they wanted when they messaged you anyway)

You also only added it on Twitter, not here… I assume because you know Tumblr doesn’t like that. If you’re going to be in a community known for enabling abuse and pedophilia by allowing real abusers to go undetected in your circles because you all think fantasizing about abuse is normal, at least make it public everywhere. People deserve to know who they are talking to, especially since these are such touchy subjects.

Literally anyone you know who are into these things could be for real about it and you would never know unless you were too. There is no excuse for wanting to be part of any community that allows that to happen, and I don’t find it fair that people are being mocked with “respect your own DNI” as if that was the problem. They would have followed their DNI if they had known it applied to you… what they asked you for was putting a rape warning on StOP. Which you still didn’t do

I know a lot of proshippers are victims. But a lot of others are too, and we don’t appreciate being thrown under the bus in the name of “fighting purity culture” as if it’s the same as being anti-kink.

Anon I don't know if you're my ex-patreon supporter or if you're a friend of theirs or what, but it's funny to me that they kept saying they didn't want to start any trouble with me and then this happens lol ok I guess.

You also failed to mention I refunded all the money they gave to my Patreon and apologized for the confusion, I don't know how else I should apologize to them, if you or they want me to stop drawing StOP, that's not gonna happen 🤷 I've said everywhere, multiple times, that StOP is a fuck or die comic, whether you want to take that as dubcon or noncon or not is up to you. The way I write is not really that way because all parties are VERY MUCH into it by the time they start doing anything, but I am AWARE that I can't call it completely consensual just by the nature of the fuck or die scenario. Maybe this person just wasn't aware that fuck or die = noncon, that is.... Not really my fault, it literally comes with that label, I'm sorry :/

Also, my bio has ALWAYS said I'm proship lol I don't know what you're going on about.

It's not a thing I have on my Tumblr bio because before Hazbin, I didn't post any of that stuff to *this* Tumblr, now I've stopped giving a shit but just didn't think to add it to my bio because idk *shrugs* I didn't care that much. You want me to add the proship label here too? I will, I have no issue with it, I am not trying to hide and it's not because "Tumblr doesn't like that" I couldn't care less lolol.

And my friend, sighs, anti circles are known for having more real predators than proship circles. I can't even begin to tell you how many teenagers were groomed in anti circles because they thought it was a """safe space""" while adults in proship spaces literally want nothing to do with minors. I am open about who I am and what I like, I am not afraid to say it because I am not ashamed even if I get people like you in my inbox lmao

My tag of "respect your own DNI" is because people will think proshippers are gross and want nothing to do with them but they'll... Still be the first people to talk to you once they find out.... You're proving my point right now lmao

[heavenlyachivement009]

Rhetorical but genuine question: How has creating content that is just sexualizing and romanticizing incest and pedophila helping you with sexual trauma YOU faced as a child? Like help me out here, you're going on ao3 writing a "story" (fantasy really...) about how an adult takes advantage of a child and has sex with them and the people are commenting "oh this is so hot" "this is amazing" "I love taboo shit <333" under your post and you're replying "omg I'm glad you liked it." as a response. But then you turn around and be like no it's a coping mechanism? Even though not every coping mechanism is good and in reality you're just becoming the abuser and giving pedophiles more content.

Like I am truly failing to see how writing about two brothers fucking is gonna make you feel better? I actually had this on my old account (way more nauced and articulate) but I really wanna know how has it been working? Because when you do any other PROPER AND HEALTHY coping mechanism you start to realize "hey this is working I'm feeling better about what happened to me! yet when I see y'all bring up coping ion see no progress. Ion see no one saying how healthy it is or how it actually made them heal. All see is ex-proshippers saying this made me alot worse and I'm seeing doctors and therapist talk about how eventually you'll wanna act on the urges. But that's that's my two cents ion care what proshipper comes up here you're getting blocked lmao

Edit: I just wanna come up here and say that every single ex-proshipper I've seen has come out and said that proshipping did more harm than good for them and alot of them who were/are minors said adult proshippers just groomed them into it and wanted to try it IRL so don't try and tell me it's harmless oh my god.

[poxivix]

RULES FOR THIS ACCOUNT!!

(IMPORTANT, Especially to those who are wondering what my account is about or what I do)

Just wanted to put up some rules for this account INCASE you are at the wrong page. Some rules may relate to content that I HAVENT posted YET, but even so I still will put them up.

1] - No ages under 13 or 15. Due to this, my content may be either slightly suggestive, venty (I may vent/rant sometimes in the future, but they're not full on), body horror possibly, gorey and violent. Or! I tend to cuss/swear a lot aswell. Ofc, those who still wanna see me post can stay, but PLEASE, if you're uncomfortable with any of those topics, I suggest you unfollow, or if it makes you comfortable, block me so that you won't come across my posts again.

2] - Do NOT repost my videos/art without crediting me, ESPECIALLY if your intentions are stealing my work that IVE created. AND DO NOT TRACE, STEAL, ANY TYPE OF SHIT LIKE THAT! I love you all that appreciate my art, tysm, just plz don't go around stealing my stuff. This includes my ocs, possibly designs?? (if u think they're good enough lol), art dumps, and animations.

3] - I'd appreciate it if this account was drama free; arguing, harassment, spamming, racism, threats and homophobic topics. I don't wanna see any sort of such on my posts, asking box, or so on. One thing I also wanna say is that opinions are OBVIOUSLY welcome here, and I respect everyone for even having one. But PLEASE!! If your opinions have intentions on hurting others and possibly me, then I'd rather drench myself in oil and light my body on fire rather than seeing it. Respectfully, just please avoid PURPOSELY annoying ANYONE on this account, take your dramas away from me I'm not your therapist. AND PEOPLE!! On a side not, respect others opinions please, not everyone has to agree with you :(

4] - Please just let me do what I wanna do. This rule is probably the only rule I ATLEAST want you to follow: leave me be. Do not ask me to change my art style, do not tell me what I should and should not post, do not hate me for drawing things you don't feel appealed to, I do what keeps me sane. Suggestions such as improvement? I might not be comfortable with it, but no hate at all to those who just wanna give constructive criticism in a good way. I appreciate it a lot, but maybe my sensitive lil ahh won't be able to take it since yeah, I love how I draw cuz it's my own artstyle (Inspired by others ofc)

Feedback on my art is okay, but please base it around my hyperfixations. What I mean by that is if I just so happen to mischaracterize a specific character or something like that, you can inform me otherwise. But please be respectful about it instead of going like " [INSERT CHARACTER] DOESNT DO THAT!" or "Girl have you not watched the series/show or smt 💀", I'm not aware of my own actions sometimes 😞

5] - Don't ask me to be your friend when you've just so happened to cross my account. I've been a bit too nice in the past and just accepted random strangers friend requests w/o even getting to know them. But even so, those people turned out to be amazing. Please just don't ask me to be your friend either because I'm your idol or you just assume/ think im a cool person. Getting to know each other is WAY better so please, I'd appreciate it a lot🙏

And even if I still dont wanna be your friend, dont take it the wrong way please. It's either because I still don't feel comfortable, I don't feel like it, or I just don't want to in general. Please be respectful, thank you.

6] - I'm talking too much but please bare with me. NO PROSHIPS/PEDOS/FETISHISM PLZ!!

I dont think I even need to explain this even further, apart from DO NOT get ANY of my oc's/characters, or even ME, involved with your proshipping shit. OR EVEN BETTER, DO NOT DO ANY OF THE ABOVE AT ALL WHEN YOURE AROUND ME!! It's concerning, I'm uncomfortable with it, and I do not wish to be a part of any shit like that.

7] - Requests? They are accepted here! But please base the requests around my hyperfixations, they're the only motivation I got. And on my ocs? Definitely will do cuz yeah.

I dont take requests that involve drawing your ocs on command, drawing fandoms I'm not even in, and fetish art cuz why tf...

Call me a pussy for this but breaking any of these rules on this blog will get you an instant block, or maybe just a warning BEFORE I block you.

THATS ALL FORNOW!!

I might add some more rules depending on my experience here on Tumblr. These rules go for the same on my tiktok: lx_v_, and youtube: EL_EX_VEE

Thanks for wasting a bit of your time just to read this important note. It means a lot to me, more than you think it does. I'm currently physically, and possibly mentally, drained and exhausted from life. I'm holding on still, and I know for a fact I'm trying. Your love and support is something, you probably don't know about, that effects my perspective on everything, and that I shouldn't just give up yet. I just wanted to add this because I feel as if I'm not showing my appreciation enough. So overall love yous all, hope for the best in all of us, and just thank you in general 💙

[maks-punchout-hyperfixtion]

So about burnt bread discourse

I had a dream i had to make this post once. Aint that ironic.

As a multi shipper i won't lie and say the aran x joe age isn't something. But to me it's just a big age gap between two adults. It's not like aran just got out of highschool or joe knew aran as a kid. If either was the case this ship wouldn't even fall under my radar.

I frankly can't give two shits who you ship in any fandom as long as their legal ages and not relatives. I don't even do ship stuff alot, hell the fucking au based around Punch out ships is more like "what if they had kids and those kids just so happened to also go into boxing" for literally any ship it doesn't even follow the minimum lore i have!

But i want to say some stuff about the original post that started it. Which will be in a under cut because of rants and frankly outright rudeness im presenting. To which i apologize

It feels non genuine. Its just feels like something to just start something up. And my reasoning are simple they assumed excuses, was basically just rude in their second to final sentence, and just randomly slapped proship over it without an explanation

They assume that someone will call them homophobic, and that they don't like the trope aran x joe is. Which by the way can we actually talk about that?

Wimpy x strong?? Im sorry but in my opinion and any fan art i have seen doesn't depict joe as a wimp. At all. Joe is a boxer and dispite being one of the worst he is still giving it his all. Even in canon he isn't, the only "wimpy" dialogue he has is the one about his gloves being too tight and his stomach being mush. And even that was just him complaining about something that actually does get annoying. His "dont punch my jaw" lines are likely because his jaw is probably going to break after to many bouts so he's trying to tell his opponent to not punch there (which obviously fails), and that nap one was probably just to taunt mac! You realize how detirmed and strong you got to be to keep going into the ring after 100 losss? In a total of 201 between the nes and wii game? If that's your definition of wimpy i hate to see what you call people who actually are wimps.

That rant aside lets talk about you second to last sentence "But yea, welcome to the Punch out fandom, were SOME people doesn't care about ages."

That was just fucking rude you know that? I refuse to believe that wasn't meant to intentionally be rude. No matter how big the fandom no matter how close you are to the people you never go and say that type of stuff unless you can provide proof that a good portion you're referring too is actually doing that. Especially after you got your point across.

And look i get proship can mean different things. But you could of atleast give a reasoning as to why this ship is a proship outside the age gap? It doesn't help that you actually only put it in the tags that caused the whole thing.

Frankly actually i don't hate your take, im just hoping you're reading this and seeing there were better ways to bring the point across and to give some better reasons as to why you dislike the ship outside the age gap and why you think its a proship.

So tldr: just reword the actual post better take out the "But yea, welcome to the Punch out fandom, were SOME people doesn't care about ages" part and explain why you think this ship is a proship

[ramblingidk]

I'll get shot for this but it's why I'm staying anon, it's funny being around antis as someone who just lurks as unlabelled and idgaf what ppl do, because I can say the exact same words abt why someone will proship but just replace the word proship with selfship,,, AND ITS THE EXACT SAME!!! THERE IS 0 REASON TO BEEF ON THIS STUFF, only reason I don't get "caught" is just saying "ew yeah I hate (insert group)" which I really don't and it sucks having to do sm bs to avoid life endangerment over a damn ship.

Genuinely I've lost friends over the harassment that antis do because they just can't be online anymore or literally kill themselves after about the 5th time they get doxxed.

Anti harassment goes both ways, but antis seem to act like they were cut first when someone bites back.

Also very real more ppl should be touching grass bc the biggest "proshippers" I've met have been irl or just regular ass people because no one circle jerks their superiority over shit that isn't real 🎉

I don't understand what the big deal is and why it is about fictional pairs. I remember when I was in the Undertale fandom back in the late 2010s there would be a TON of people shipping things like Frans, sansceet and so on. Yeah there were plenty of people saying it's bad and weird, but there was way, WAY less drama then before 2020 when normies flooded the internet. I do know there have been life endangering dramas even then about stupid things like a Frans artist or someone supposedly drawing Rose Quartz from SU "too thin", but I don't believe those issues were as big as nowadays. I wonder how things even got to this point...

I'm so sorry to hear about your friends. It's obvious, but no one should ever have to go through that. It's crazy to think that so many people out there are willing to leak someone's real life location (or in other words literally commit a crime) over things that most definitely don't harm anyone. Again, I wonder how it got to the point where that is normalized...

Yeah, a lot of antis seem to have a giant victim complex lmao. I never understood what's with them and actively infiltrating our community spaces after they specifically tell us to find or make our own, especially when they're an older age (15+). I'll never forget that I literally had a 26yo anti trying to argue with me (a minor) about proshippers in the self ship communit, can you imagine being an adult but still being an anti

And absolutely! Most of the time the proshippers are the normal ones living a good if not decent life. We touch grass and shower and are cool unlike these basement dweller gremlins who spend their time contributing nothing but damage to everyone 👍

[brokenorbornthatway]

We lost a couple followers after the last post we reblogged, so I figured now is a good time to go over some of our stances so you can know if we're not your cup of tea.

We are profiction, proship, anti harassment ,and anti censorship. No exceptions.

Fiction is an endless playground with no rules, do literally whatever you want for whatever reason you want.

We are pro kink and anti kink shaming. Honestly this is pretty much the same as being profiction/proship. Kink is fantasy. So long as all parties are able to and do consent, kinks are morally neutral.

We are pro para, and to be precise, pro big 3 having the right to exist without being dehumanized/demonized. To be more precise, we wholeheartedly support non offending/anti contact pedophiles. There is nothing wrong with having an attraction. Thought crimes do not exist. We support paraphiles right to exist and find community, support, and healthy ways to embrace themselves without causing harm to themselves or others.

We do not believe there is ever a circumstance in which it becomes acceptable to strip someone of their human rights. We have had more than our fair share of violent fantasies towards people who have wronged us or those we love and people who have caused large scale harm. Believe me, we get the urge to say "but this type of person deserves to be systemically punished". It's pretty easy to buy into. It's never the right answer though. Allowing any one group or type of person or whatever to be dehumanized, means that anyone can be, which leads right back to the systems of oppression we live in now. No one deserves to be treated as less than human.

We are endo supportive and against fake claiming. We don't think it's right to assume that you know better than people what's going on in their own brains. Even if you did think someone is "faking", you don't know them well enough, nor are you educated enough, nor are you in the position (the position being "being their therapist") to tell them they're faking and risk being wrong and causing someone serious mental distress.

We are anti punitive justice and pro restorative justice. We are a prison abolitionist. Prison is never an acceptable answer for "what to do when harm is done?"

We are in favor of youthlib, and still learning about this topic. Children are people and are often treated as less than that. Children are fully autonomous beings and we are in favor of children's rights. Kids deserve to have a say in their lives and the issues that affect them.

We are against body shaming in all instances, including jokes about penis size and jokes about how people with bad opinions look.

We are pro all good faith identities. We really do not understand radqueer or transID things, but as long as you aren't causing harm, we support you.

We are pro self diagnoses. Diagnoses is a privilege that is unavailable to many and is a thing that is unsafe to some. I don't believe in armchair diagnosing others. Unless you're their doctor, you don't have the qualifications to diagnose them. However, I absolutely believe everyone is the expert on themselves, and with the information on whatever the condition on question is, most people can at least make a pretty good educated guess on what's going on with themselves.

We are against equating normal with good.

We are anti fascist and anti colonization.

We love and support Jewish people.

We believe in second chances. People can learn to do better and everyone deserves that chance. We believe in rehabilitation. To be human is to fuck up. It's a lot easier to admit your fuck ups and learn better when you see other people doing the same and being accepted.

We think violence is a key part of human nature and that it is something that needs to be fully embraced so that there are ample options to act out violent urges without causing harm that are easily accessible without fear of being shamed. There are already tons of options to for this in existence, but the stigma towards openly enjoying and wanting violence is huge barrier. Rather than meeting someone who says they're having violent urges with "count to ten, do deep breaths, GET HELP," we could meet them with "ok, that's totally human and normal. We've got video games, rage rooms, etc, where you can work through those violent urges in a healthy way." I don't know about everyone, but for us, learning that throwing soft things against the wall while rage screaming was an acceptable and safe way to manage anger and the urge to throw shit was a huge relief. Humanity is brutal, so in order to heal and build something better, I think safe ways to express that brutality and openness regarding it are vital.

Nothing really exists in terms of absolutes. This one is one that's hard for us due to being prone to black and white, all or nothing thinking. Everything falls in shades of grey. There is nuance in everything.

This one is basically a repeat, but it's important to us: every human life has intrinsic value that can not be taken away, no matter how "bad" they are or how much wrong they've done. Everyone deserves to be treated like a human, no matter what. If human rights don't apply to everyone, then they aren't human rights, they're "good people rights", and that should scare you.

That's all I can think of right now. Be aware that this is a vent blog. We might vent or rant about any of the above topics at length. If any of these things are not for you, we kindly invite you to leave.

[not-a-vegan3]

Y'know lately i've having some arguments with ppl i know about proshipping so i wanted to just put my stance on it. Truthfully, i don't fucking care about what other people ship, I'm barely even a proshipper. Besides liking TCOAAL and a few darker medias i don't go out of my way to write dark/unhealthy ships or even read them. So calling myself a proshipper seems a bit disrespectful to the craft. But Jesus H Christ, i have NEVER in my fucking life dealt with a more annoying and dangerous group as Antis. And this is coming from a trans person in a small town with no law enforcement, Antis fucking suck. The amount of posts I've seen that are just Antis bitching and moaning about a fanfic or ship art or post or fucking whatever is absurd. I have seen them go into someone's comments and harass them, calling them pedos and disgusting and saying they deserve to die for shipping blorbo x blingo. It goes on and on, in their askbox, comment section, other platforms, it never stops. And don't get me FUCKING STARTED on the doxxing, the calls to people's ACTUAL FUCKING WORKPLACES, TO THEIR FAMILIES, what the fuck is wrong with them?? What's your goal? Ruin people's lives just to sit on your fucking high horse? Do you fuckers only consume children's media? Can there not be an unhappy ending? Have you ever read actual good stories for adults and not your published wattpad fanfiction? There is dark topics, there is violence and rape, why??? BECAUSE IT'S A FUCKING STORY! And don't fucking tell me "oh it's my truama i got SA'd" yeah me fucking to, so have a lot of people, and this is their way of dealing with trauma. You don't get to dictate their trauma. "Oh but what if they haven't" so what? Just don't read it, just block and move on, ignore it, go about your day and be happy. BTW if a fictional story tells you it's okay to rape someone and then you rape someone, the story is NOT the problem.

[copycatsr]

why tf is no one talking about disgusting ships with sukuna

sukuna artists try not to ship sukuita and sukufushi go! (Difficulty: impossible)

Trigger warning for sukuita and sukufushi shippers/any sukuna shippers (why do y'all even exist)

except sukuraume, self explanatory

Like u can NOT be shipping minors with a fucking thousand year old curse dude that's fucking illegal in more ways than one

"Oh, but it's an aged up au!" No, that doesn't make it any better. ☠️ It's STILL disgusting and the character's age STILL remains the same even in the anime or manga you can't argue otherwise, it's also sexualising a character that's not even the age of consent.

It's the fact that all these sukufushi and sukuita shippers can get away with it because like HALF OF THE FANDOM likes it.

AND THERE ARE SO MANY REASONS WHY THE SHIP STILL WOULDN'T BE VALID EVEN IF IT IS LEGAL (which it isn't).

ESPECIALLY. Sukufushi. No, Sukuna isn't interested in the way you think he's interested in Megumi. All he was after was to have Megumi's cursed technique, NOTHING ELSE. And you can't tell me you ship sukuita either, they HATE each other's guts. In fact, they're FAMILY. Yeah so try that again you fucking bitch cause everyone who ships allat are disgusting. ☠️

And if you still ship all that, the relationship would be toxic as FUCK. Think about it. USE YOUR BRAIN. I can't express how much hatred I have towards these disgusting ships that I come across on a daily basis and NO ONE is hating.

If no one else will say it, I'm saying it. No ships other than Sukuraume ACTUALLY makes sense. At least I can see Sukuraume, but TojiKuna, SukuGo, YOU NAME IT, WHAT are those. TOJI AND SUKUNA HAVE NEVER EVEN MET??? AND SUKUGO IS JUST SELF EXPLANATORY. They're just all weird.

Please, PLEASE. I'm literally begging it urks me so bad and it gives me the ick everytime I see it. And you DOWNGRADE MEGUMI into a fucking twink EVERY SINGLE DAMN TIME. No, he's not a femboy. No, he isn't a twink. No, HE DOES NOT LIKE SUKUNA. INFACT, THEY BOTH HATE EACH OTHER JUST LIKE SUKUNA AND YUJI.

Dear god I'm so tired of seeing talented artist's artstyles go to waste because they like weird things.

Can I just enjoy sukuna art without having to see disgusting proships when I go into their page just to find out about the absolute disgust that they ship? It's SUCH a waste of talent and a good artstyle. This is illegal just stop please and thank you.