#but by doing so they say that stiles bad behavior should be always dismissed
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slice-of-magenta · 2 years ago
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Realizing that the show unintentionally said Scott shouldn't be able to relax or have nice things at all. That's one failure that they have actually remedied in the movie.
I don't like how Stiles is seen as his competitor. Especially since envy is built up when Stiles Is in distress and Scott is having nice things in the next scene. The choices here was begging the question, which one is your favorite? And that wasn't fair. And it wasn't a one time thing. They constantly made this contrast in the show that apparently it became bothersome. When I was more obsessed with Stiles - this was super apparent to me. I loved sciles but because of how they did scene placement it was like it was asking me to choose one of them. They didn't have another character be in the next scene. The separate scott and Stiles scenes were always pushed together.
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voidstilesplease · 4 years ago
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Attractions
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Demigod AU Ficlet [3]
Stiles
"Stiles?"
Stiles turns around to the source of the call. He finds himself facing the new Ares camper. The boy gives him a tentative but wide, slanted smile, stepping closer. Stiles is not going to lie; the excessive gushing he hears from the Aphrodite cabin about the guy are well-founded. But he's not going to say that out loud. He replies, "Hey,"
"Chiron said to look for you," the boy tells him, looking far brighter and good-natured than what Stiles anticipates from an Ares kid speaking to a child of Athena.
"Give me a sec, will you?" At the boy's nod, Stiles rushes inside the cabin to retrieve the materials he prepared for their brief session today. He assigns one of his half-siblings to take over the cabin clean-up while he's out. When he returns outside, the Ares boy is standing patiently, hands in his pockets, watching the flurry of activities inside.
"Your cabin looks like a library," the boy comments when Stiles is near enough to hear. He doesn't sound mocking and what he said isn't in particular insulting, but Stiles gets defensive all the same. From his time at camp, he gets this automatic response to the Ares bunch.
"And yours look like," he pauses, and they both turn to look at cabin five right across from Athena. Its blood-red paint job is giving Stiles goosebumps. Not to mention the stuffed boar's head on the doorway with soulless eyes that seem to be following everyone's movements, and the ugly barbed wires on the roof. It's an angry-looking cabin that's very fitting to its aggressive and violent occupants. "-a nightmare."
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Stiles expects the boy to sneer, but he gets a different reaction. The new Ares kid laughs. "You think it looks bad outside? It's absolute chaos inside." The boy turns to him, smiling cheekily. "You should come and visit sometimes."
Stiles stops short and takes a moment to consider the boy. He's never made an Ares kid laugh before, at least not that isn't derisive. They all think Stiles is stuck up even when he was only new to the camp. Only Fred, the head counselor, tolerates him, and he only does so because Stiles handed his ass to him in capture-the-flag last summer. His grudging respect is because he got beat by a rookie. Typical. This boy, though, doesn't seem to be corrupted - yet. It's only been a few days. Stiles replies with a serious, "I will," the boy's face lights up in return, probably mistaking it as Stiles flirting back. So he adds, "When it's my turn for cabin inspection. I give decent scores."
The quick shooting up of his eyebrows means he doesn't quite believe that.
But Stiles does. Last summer, he gave them 1/5. It would have been zero, but Fred had made an effort to upturn the bunk beds back in their upright position and shove all strewn underwear inside a box. He only hopes those were burned after and not distributed back to their owners. Stiles is a saint, considering.
He moves them forward, tracing the steps to the Big House. They walk side-by-side in surprisingly companionable silence for a moment, then Stiles begins introduction. "So, as your official welcome wagon, albeit a few days late," Stiles spreads his arms in an all-encompassing gesture. "Welcome to Camp Half-Blood!"
The boy laughs a little and regards him with amusement. He looks pleasant, but it's disconcerting and just a tad suspicious. An Ares kid is not supposed to be a charmer, newcomer, or otherwise.
"My name is Stiles," he says, pausing in his tracks to politely offer his hand to the boy. "I'm Athena cabin's junior counselor."
The boy smiles and takes Stiles's hand in a firm grip. He mentally registers that the boy's hand is mildly calloused and only slightly bigger than his. And the boy's eyes are blue, like the sky and ocean on a fine day. 
"I'm Theo."
Theo is a nice name, too, his brain whispers kindly. Probably short for Theodore. Stiles knows another Theodore from his previous school. That Theodore is bland; this one is far from it. But he's not going to admit that out loud, either. 
Stiles clears his throat, breaking their contact. His mind runs on him sometimes (all the time); he hates when that happens. The last time it did, Stiles got humiliated by his crush in front of the others during combat training. What a fun memory. He really shouldn't be thinking about that right now. So he picks up his steps, and Theo follows dutifully, not losing the open expression.
"I'm supposed to give you a starter kit today: the camp's map, our camp brochure, and your study guide for our next sessions." Stiles holds up the book and papers on his other hand. "As much as I'd like to tour you around, we don't have that much time."
Stiles waves a hand to one of the Hermes kids, who's carrying a trunk-load of garbage for disposal. The boy smiles back brightly despite the strain on his face from the weight of the junk. Ever since day one, everyone from cabin eleven has been friendly to Stiles, most especially the head counselor, Kira. So, Stiles always makes a way to return their kindness.
He shifts back to Theo to find him observing the interaction with attention. It's not malicious, though, which still baffles Stiles. He didn't know there could be nice ones from his cabin. 
He continues as they near the Big House. "There's a meeting with Chiron and the cabins' head counselors in an hour. Haley, our head, went with Demeter and Dionysus' cabin leaders to Manhattan to deliver strawberries. You know, the camp's source of funds? You'll see that in the brochure," he says, raising the object in question. "I'll have to attend as a proxy."
They arrive at the porch, and Stiles motions for Theo to sit on a bench. He passes the materials to him, "I'll let you check these, and if you have questions, you can ask me."
Theo shuffles the papers absently before lifting his head, "I do."
Stiles is pretty sure he hasn't read a thing yet, but he gestures for him to proceed.
"How did you manage it?" He asks, a genuinely curious look on his face. "You're here for one summer, but you're already second-in-command."
Stiles searches his face and tone for ridicule. He doesn't find it, still suspects it, so he schools his expression to its neutral - not friendly, but also not dismissive. It's a sensible question, anyway. It's not every day that he gets one from an Ares child. "It's not all about tenure here at camp," he starts, gauging.
Theo leans forward to indicate he's listening.
Stiles takes a seat adjacent to his position. If this kid is civil to him, there's no reason not to act the same - even if Stiles still thinks their cabin is the worst. "The eldest or the longest camper automatically gets the head counselor post, and they assign their seconds. Usually, they pick from the next eldest campers, but they can also base on achievements disregarding age or length of stay."
Theo inclines his head, eyes level on Stiles. "Achievements?"
"Yes. Like winning in the camp's games, or successfully returning from a quest."
His eyes flash in thought, and it is with revere when he says, "And you did both."
Stiles blushes embarrassingly. He tries to mask it by ducking his head and rubbing at his cheeks. Stiles is suddenly self-conscious when he is usually gloating. Stiles never passes up an opportunity to rub it in an Ares kid's face how he's defeated them in capture-the-flag like he's born for it.
When Stiles looks up again, the boy is smirking at him, blue eyes darting around his face in a thorough examination. Stiles's guard kicks in again, feeling measured. 
He straightens in his perch, lifting his chin haughtily. "Yes," he makes sure that his tone is sharp. "I led my team to victory against yours. If you have any doubt to the legitimacy of that claim, you can remind Fred how he uselessly hung upside-down like a wet market chicken while I plucked the flag from his hands."
Stiles waits for the offended snarl and stream of profanities, but once again, he's knocked off his careful balance. Theo's face splits in a wide grin, and he laughs. "So, that's why he doesn't share details, the loser."
Stiles goggles, starting to feel annoyed by the unusual behavior. "Aren't you going to mock me and defend his honor?"
Theo snorts, "What honor?" He snickers for a few more and then puts his attention to the reading materials when he recovers.
Stiles finds the situation peculiar, so he stays quiet and allows Theo to read, answering when he has more questions and volunteering information that isn't in print.
Later, when they adjourn, he prepares to leave when Theo leans to tell him, "I'm not like my siblings. I don't hate clever people." He pauses, and with an easy grin, adds: "Fred might even be right. I think I'm attracted to one of them."
He doesn't wait for Stiles's reply - not that Stiles has one to that statement. He only stands there, taken aback, and red as a startled tomato.
Theo, finally displaying the familiar audacity comparable to his kins, winks. "I'll see you later, Stiles."
And well, it's impossible not to notice him everywhere now.
~•~
[1][2][companion]
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sparkwhorunswithwolves · 5 years ago
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2/2 Scott didn’t sell Derek and his betas out to the hunters; Scott did’t give Gerard the informations he wanted; Scott didn’t conspire with Gerard behind everyone’s back. Gerard FORCED Scott to force Derek to bite him: Scott is as much of a victim as Derek is (if not more.) What Scott did to Derek wasn’t a violation, it’s a well deserved comeuppance that made Derek a better person. Stop pretending that Stiles and Lydia wouldn’t congratulate Scott for outwitting both Gerard and Derek
1/2 "Invalidate a few teens’ trauma, violate Derek, and just be a general nuisance, and congratulations, you have one (1) fully redeemed werewolf. /sarcasm" What Scott didn't violate Derek! That's not what Jeff Davis and the production wanted viewers to take from Teen Wolf. Jeff Davis and the production determined that Scott would be the hero protagonist and a glance at his actions and behavior shows this to be irrefutable.
Tumblr ate my first attempt at this, so this might even be more short tempered than usual.
But seriously, am I being trolled? I feel trolled. If not, kudos to you for somehow absolving Scott of all wrong doing because Gerard forced him to, while also saying that he totally autsmarted Derek and should be congratulated because he assaulted Derek into becoming a better person. (seriously, what even—?)
So, Trauma Olympics, tw's general fuckery, Peter and Lydia, and whatever else I forgot:
But the main issue, not just with this, but with fandom in general, is that the worst case is always Bad and not their fault, while anything “less” is not as bad, and doesn’t deserve as much if any complaint/leeway as the first. While it’s more like any Form of mind manipulation is Bad and it can only be worse.
What im trying to say is, any violation is bad, period.
From this response about brainwashing yesterday.
By saying that something that happened to Scott was so much worse, you're automatically saying that whatever similar thing Scott did is not as bad, not only absolving Scott of most if not all of the blame, but also dismissing the very idea that his victims could have any sort of trauma because of it.
Yes, Peter violating Scott with the neck-claw-thing is "worse" than when Derek/Scott did the same with Jackson and Corey respectively, but you can't take worse as the baseline and calling everything else less by default, rather than seeing any kind of violation as bad and wrong with certain circumstances making it worse.
I don't blame you. Teen Wolf does this hilariously and infuriatingly well. But watch it again and pay attention to what we're supposed to excuse/celebrate with Scott, while everyone else gets demonized for the same things.
That's not what Jeff Davis and the production wanted viewers to take from Teen Wolf.
But we did. Because yes, they decided that Scott's the hero, that everything he did was either right or justifiable. But it's not.
And I refuse to take some nice soundtrack and a few epic camera angles at face value and think that someone being premeditatedly violated, no matter who you think as "actually" responsible, from a show which has a serious problem with either sexualizing pain/abuse/torture or playing it for laughs.
Have all the links because I'm not repeating myself more than necessary.
Lydia had no control over resurrecting Peter, yet Derek was allowed to be wary of her; Liam tried to (and temporarily did kill) Scott because he had full moon control issues, something that no one else was blames for in s1-3a, yet Scott is justified in shutting him out. But no one's mad at Scott, who had more autonomy and the chance to get Derek involved; but no one's telling Stiles (or Jackson/Allison) or Derek they should be more wary of Scott/the betas/Cora.
As to Lydia and Stiles, no?
Considering that Lydia has just been violated by Peter for months, (though, I mean, was that really his fault? Given that someone (Peter) might have died otherwise? He was totally forced to do it?!? /obvious fucking sarcasm don't @ me), and we're clearly shown that Stiles doesn't believe in the it's not abuse because werewolves thing.
Also, am I the only one who's really fucking concerned about the whole violation/torture/isolation/whatnot is a perfectly Valid punishment and/or redemption arc thing?
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halekingsourwolf · 8 years ago
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sometimes i think about what could have made me like sc*tt. like. s1&s2 sc*tt definitely had his faults- esp. wrt his treatment of derek- but i think he definitely could have developed as a person from there and had a rly interesting character arc? like real personal growth and shit. it gets harder after master plan. is there a way that episode could have gone down the way it did and still made him a likable character after that? is there any apology he could give that would suffice?
cont. - like im not sure of the answer, but id love to see someone manage it. i don’t know if ive ever come across a fic that manages to redeem him from that moment while still acknowledging it. most fics either dont forgive him for it or they just sort of ignore it. for me tho, i think the real breaking point for sc*tt is the true alpha storyline. after that i don’t think there was anything they could have done for him to make him an interesting or likeable character. that storyline ruined it.
I think one of the biggest places where people take issue with Scott –– and this doesn’t mean they hate him or he’s a horrible human being (although some people feel that way too, and are entitled to it), but where many people see Scott falling short as a character is in that the show seems to have decided that “main character” or “hero” should mean perfect, and that’s just… that’s not good for character development, for plot building, or honestly, for a character’s likability.
Characters need to grow to be engaging. And people grow by making mistakes, learning from them, and moving forward. Scott’s mistakes, his flaws as a human being (and yes, he has flaws, everyone does, that’s not character assassination, that’s just fact) are really never addressed. He isn’t made to apologize for the things he does wrong (and why should he, honestly, since no one around him recognizes his problematic behaviors and calls him out on them) or face any apparent payment for them. This compared to the rest of the characters in the series, who are called out on their mistakes –– either by other characters or by consequences in canon. I always use Derek as a comparison, because there are a lot of straightforward parallels, such as the key moments with Isaac. Derek throws a glass at Isaac to get him to leave the loft. We know that’s an absolutely shitty thing to do, it reads immediately on both Isaac and Derek’s faces, and as consequence Derek loses Isaac as a pack member. That’s some hardcore, immediate reaction showing people in the scene and in the audience that This Was Not An Ok Thing To Do. The fact that Derek knew it wasn’t ok as he was doing it, and that he did it on purpose to get Isaac to leave for his own safety, does not make the behavior alright, and Derek acknowledges and pays for that behavior in the permanent loss of Isaac as a housemate and pack member.
When Scott, a short time later, throws Isaac into a wall in a moment of jealousy, it should, on the surface, seem to strike a fairly close parallel. We have Isaac’s Alpha, someone in a position of power over him, physically lashing out at him in some way. But in this instance, neither Scott nor Isaac react much to it, Isaac continues to go on living in Scott’s house and remaining a member of his pack, and there is just… no real follow up to that moment. And while I understand how that can lead some viewers to dismiss the moments as not being parallel (Isaac wasn’t upset there, so clearly Scott’s behavior is acceptable), what I and many viewers are instead left with is the message that Derek lashing out is unexpected and unacceptable, Scott lashing out is expected and acceptable, and that makes him… more heroic?
In season five I believe there finally was a moment between Stiles and Scott where Scott seemed to be being called out on his behavior, but even that came off as very “I’m flawed and you can’t understand that because you’re perfect,” which is… it’s how Scott sees himself, and it’s how the writers seem to see him, but A) that fails to acknowledge the ways in which he is flawed –– meaning that he can’t learn from and improve upon those flaws –– and B) makes for an incredibly un-engaging character. How can we identify with perfection? How can we root for perfection? And how can we fully get on board with someone we are told is perfect, when we can look at them and point out a dozen instances where they weren’t?
This is my major issue with Scott’s character. That we are told he is perfect when we see he isn’t, that he has a double standard of being excused from all of his bad behaviors when the characters around him aren’t, and I do think this connects very much to the True Alpha problem (I got another ask about my thoughts on that so I’ll answer that in more detail separately), because it’s just another level of saying “Scott is a better man, werewolf, and person in general than everyone else.”
Ok, now after all of that, how do I think Scott could have been improved and made more likable for many critical viewers? To be honest, for me it would have been really simple. Include moments where he apologizes for things. That’s… really, honestly, all I would have needed. Because like I said, I’m not looking for perfect characters. Scott acknowledging that he screwed up now and again would make me ecstatic because it would mean that he’s learning and growing and is trying to become better, and that makes for an amazing character arc in any show. If Scott had done the exact same thing in “Master Plan,” except when Derek asked why Scott didn’t tell him Scott had said “I’m sorry… I was afraid if I told anyone then Gerard would find out my plan. And I couldn’t risk that, my mom was in danger” then bam. I would have had a complete turnaround on my attitude toward him in that moment. He would have been humanized, we would have seen that he was in a tough situation, and he would have become more sympathetic by sympathizing with the shitty thing he’d done to Derek. Honestly, that simple.
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gldngrl7 · 6 years ago
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Binge Watch: Teen Wolf (Thoughts on Character - Part 2)
LYDIA: I was fully prepared to dislike her because I have little patience for the vapid teenage girl stereotype. But then lo! She is not vapid but only pretending to be so! Glorious! A genius in mean-girl Prada. But she’s also more than just a genius, she also cares for people, maybe even as much as Scott. She takes people under her protective wing. Right from the start you see this with Allison, who’s the new girl in school. Then later with both Kira and Malia. In a way, she fills the leadership/counselor needs of the female pack members in a way that a male Alpha can’t necessarily do.
KIRA: I never fully understood the Kitsune and what exactly her abilities were, other than being long-lived and a bad-ass with a katana. But again, just as it looked like they might delve...she disappears. It almost seems like characters disappear when they start to get more interesting than Scott. Hmmmm. Apparently, for the show’s purposes, Kira was just an excellent rebound girl for Scott. Once he rebounded from Allison (and then her death), Kira was no longer needed. Thanks for playing.
LIAM: a true Scott-created Beta was always going to be required. Interesting that they chose (not that there was much choice) a kid with anger management issues. Not so interesting is that the writers made his arc all about how his anger made him a stronger beta, when they should have made it about his journey to absolute control. He was so worried that his parents would see him as a monster, and yet we only met his dad (a surgeon, because....male) who was never given a chance to see Liam’s truth.
MASON: I loved the parallels between Liam/Mason and Scott/Stiles.
MALIA: talk about having the worst parents ever! But at least it seems like she became the impetus for bringing Peter towards the light, giving him something fight for other than his own hide, even though he didn’t know how to show it at first. I like that she was set slightly apart as a were-coyote, occasionally leaning more towards Lone-Wolf behavior and sometimes chafing against the internal pack structure. Her blunt speak and dismissal of societal norms seems more a function of having spent several formative years as a full coyote (“Can you TRY to act human?”) but her hair-trigger attack mode is all coyote. That she ends up with Scott seemed to come more from the Alpha/Beta construct than out of any real chemistry there (IMO).
HAYDEN: Another character to disappear unceremoniously, and I can’t help but think that it was because the love story between Liam and Hayden had begun to overshadow Scott’s story and maybe even the Stiles/Lydia ship, which had become centerpoint just before Hayden “moved away”.
THEO RAEKEN: Another one of my favorite, but rarely used tropes, is the “quick route to redemption through the hell dimension” trope. For Theo, this was a miss, but a near one. Maybe when they started his redemption arc they expected or hoped that they would have more time to see it through than they did. As a child, Theo kills his sister for her heart (did he even need a heart?) at the behest/corruption of The Dread Doctors. He’s essentially a sociopath, but he wants to be the hero, to be worshipped and adored, not because he wants to take on any responsibility. The Skinwalkers sent him to a hell dimension where we later learn he was tormented by the sister he murdered. This would have been a good time for him to learn some contrition, and more importantly to learn that there is no escaping the consequences of his actions. But when he’s restored to the mortal plane it seems his self preservation instincts are more alive than ever, because he’d do and say anything to keep from going back there. To be fair, we don’t really see him maneuver again to supplant Scott’s place (smartly accepting that that’s a well one can only go to once), but instead watch as he rather painfully tries to wedge his way into the pack like a square peg into a round hole. No one wants him there, but they’re taking a “keep your enemies closer” tact with him the second time around. As Theo himself said, he doesn’t take rejection well. Against the Ghost Riders we see him fight the good fight, even saving Liam, though his motives are unclear and it’s much too early to believe that he’s just a good guy now. The final proof of his redemption, in the finale, is when he takes the pain of a dying boy who tried to kill him, perhaps for the first time empathizing with someone, as like himself the dying boy had been corrupted to murder by forces beyond his control. But it came too quickly and one is left to wonder, why now?
ARGENT/MELISSA: DAMN! That was the ship I didn’t know I needed. Why isn’t there more Fanfiction!?!???
DEREK/JENNIFER: not going lie. I’m never not going to be upset that that ship went the way it did. From the beginning I sensed that she felt “like an ugly duckling”. It was masterfully and subtly portrayed. Or maybe because as a plain woman, I identified with her immediately. So Derek and Jennifer were my personal fantasy of ending up with the guy you secretly think is way out of your league but is also incongruously soft with you. She brought a smile to his face, until they fucking ruined it. They brought her back for the finale where Anuk-Ite uses her image to taunt Derek into looking at him. His struggle is palpable. He’s afraid, knows it’s Anuk-Ite and that opening his eyes will turn him into stone. But in the end he can’t resist. He has to look and I think that’s very telling.
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princeescaluswords · 5 years ago
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Stans were truly pissed that the narrative refuted their claims that Derek was in the right for his antagonistic, cruel behavior. That he explicitly said Scott was a hero, that he admired him. "Derek deserves nice things" they say yet have frozen Derek in their fics at his season 2 phase, ignoring how he healed and became truly happy. He's no longer their broody antihero. They cling to "alpha Derek" but that didn't make him happy, relinquishing it did.
Is it really surprising?  
There’s a certain satisfaction in using trauma to excuse bad behavior.  It can feel, short term, as if you are righting a wrong by allowing a person (or a character) to act out their revenge.   But there’s a difference between accommodating those who suffer from trauma and mental illness – which is an unalloyed good – and excusing them for bad actions.  We should all take someones trauma and mental illness into account when we decide how to treat them, but there is a limit to it, and that limit lies in how they treat others.  
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But careful consideration and a nuanced approach to traumatized characters isn’t as sexy or as satisfying as giving them carte blanche to take their pain out on the world.  It’s more fun to applaud Derek dishing out the pain for once than to see him grow into someone who doesn’t have to.
The problem, of course, arrives in the form of double standards.  The visceral thrill of seeing your favorite character wallow in their pain – the number of hurt/comfort stories attests to that thrill – is sometimes spoiled if they take it out on other innocents.  That’s when you create the Trauma Olympics, where you compare the pain of others in order to give their acts legitimacy.  If Derek scores a perfect ten in Sad Backstory, then it doesn’t matter if he orders Lydia’s death, because she only has a four in the same event. 
Thus, certain Derek stans perform all sorts of ethical gymnastics to counter the idea that Derek (and even Peter) acted like absolute shits in Seasons 1 & 2.  It’s especially important that they don’t admit that other people are similarly traumatized.  The scenes of Scott being horrified by the changes in his body; being frightened when told by Stiles and Chris that there’s a strong probability he’ll hurt someone he loves; being bullied by Derek; being mentally controlled and violated by Peter; being rejected in horror by his mother and Allison, and being tortured and extorted by Gerard have to be erased or dismissed because he got to play First Line and doesn’t have asthma anymore.  Derek’s escalation of the war by recruiting child soldiers, by attempting to execute innocents, by employing physical coercion is somehow not enough justification for Scott to move against him.   (It always amazes me how every single adult and some children – Deaton, Peter, Chris, Stiles, Boyd, Erica, and Isaac – all recognize that Derek flops as an alpha, but somehow Scott’s rejection of him as one to these parts of fandom seems out of the blue).
For all they say they love Derek, as Derek begins to grow and move out of the phase where his trauma defines him, they begin to get antsy.   They want Derek to heal, but they want Derek to heal in a way that doesn’t require him to change.  For example, they want Stiles – whose canon idea of love is control and constant criticism – to somehow soothe the pain away without requiring a change in Derek’s behavior.  They want Derek to remain Alpha – not that it helped him or anything – because he is justified by it, even though he did nothing to earn it.  To them, Derek doesn’t owe anything to Isaac or Jackson or the other betas he got killed.   Derek certainly doesn’t owe anything to Scott or Lydia or the other teenagers he terrorized.  
Yet the show determined that Derek was going to own up to what he did.  He was going to use his skills and talents to help, without requiring obedience.  Instead of insisting on favors, he made sure it was “going to come for free.”   He helped with the nogitsune, he helped with Liam, he helped with the Dead Pool, he willing gave his life to save two innocent teenagers, and he came back to Beacon Hills for his alpha – facing down the architects of his trauma to do so.  
It’s sad to me that some people are still so dedicated to the idea that salving wounds means excusing bad behavior that character growth is somehow seen as cheating. 
(I mark this “anti derek hale” as a courtesy.  I don’t think recognizing Derek’s terrible actions in Seasons 1 or 2 means I hate the character.)
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