#but bangel shippers making comparisons?
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greensaplinggrace · 4 months ago
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unfortunately for antis, any criticism of spuffy that involves a comparison to how much better bangel is just highlights the fact that they really shouldn't be shipping either of them. by their own standards.
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we-pay-for-everything · 2 years ago
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Hi Monica! Very UO for you: I actually think Bangel and Delena are a lot more similar than Spuffy and Delena are. Granted, I'm a Bangel/Delena shipper, so maybe I'm biased. But here's the thing: Bangel and Delena are both about eternal, passionate, difficult but eternal love, complete with melodramatic declarations and "ugh life would be easier if I didn't love you so much that it's killing me but I can't help loving you forever anyway" angst. Both Delena and Bangel are about extremely intense, soul-deep, dramatic and transformative love. Stelena is more of an 'easy companionship' kind of vibe to me and Spuffy is this weird one-sided dynamic where Buffy is constantly on guard (for very good reason) and can't even say she loves Spike once until he's literally dying, at which point he doesn't even believe her. I also don't think Stefan is actually very similar to Angel at all, but that's another topic! Anyway, I'm not sure anyone will agree with me but wanted to vent to you :) Have a wonderful weekend and let us know if you want more asks!
Hi! I agree. Spuffy and Delena's dynamic could not be less alike. You make a good point regarding the similarities between Bangel and Delena. I agree about Spuffy but I disagree that Stelena was just an easy companionship. Their love transformed Stefan and Elena, and also inadvertently transformed Damon and his relationships with Stefan, Elena, and even Katherine.
Stefan has some similarities with Angel, but Damon also shares some similarities with Angel. TVD and AtS are just too different to properly compare the characters. Relevant comparisons between characters and ships are almost nonexistent imo.
Thanks for the ask! Have a nice weekend too!
Btw, you and other TVD anons should search for previous asks and analyses in my TVD tag. For example, search for "ask tvd" or "angel stefan", etc. to find analyses I've made on this subject and in general.
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sspoike · 3 years ago
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I’ve recently been reading soul lore takes at the Buffy subreddit, and I’m always amazed at how often the soul lore topic in btvs seems to devolve into an angel vs spike take, and by proxy, bangel vs spuffy. But moving past all of the “lol it’s not that serious it’s just a show” and “the writers were just inconsistent it’s not that deep” comments, a take that I kept seeing brought up again and again for why some fans preferred Angel over Spike was literally just, Look At All This Shit Spike Did When He Didn’t Have His Soul.
Like I know soul lore feels so inconsistent that it kind of muddles things, but is this really the best argument to have when you prefer Angel over Spike? I’m not knocking any Angel fans, and there are very good and legitimate reasons for not liking Spike, but comparing the actions of soulless Spike to that of an ensouled Angel? How is that fair at all?
“He tried killing Willow!” “He made and molested Buffybot!” “He tortured Angel for the gem!!” “How can you just forgive him for the Bathroom Incident??”
What bangel fan is forgiving of all of Angelus’ crimes? I don’t think anyone really excuses Spike for every horrific action of his, but it’s worth acknowledging that he literally has no conscience. If we take a step back and try looking at vamp demons on an ecological level, a vamp really shouldn’t have a conscience because caring like a human would instinctually go against their ability to exist. Blood and violence and death are so integral to their survival and longevity as a species, to deny it would be to deny their ability to eat, to survive, to reproduce. Both Angelus and Spike without a soul have committed truly vile crimes, but only Angel is given the luxury of distancing himself from Angelus as a separate entity. Neither vampire is really excused from their horrific actions, but the lack of soul at least provides explanation. For nearly every major reason given to dislike Spike, most can be explained by the fact that he had no soul or conscience to see things with true clarity or motivate him to be better. Again, an explanation, not an excuse. Spike may find other motivations to be better because he’s a freaky little freak (and whether those reasons are self-serving or at all selfless is a whole other debate), but they’re all very external and often unstable. So why is he really held to a higher standard than Angelus?
As endearing as Spuffy shippers find Spike, and as endearing as many find his odd moments of humanity (bringing Joyce unsigned flowers, protecting Dawn for months when Buffy was dead), I feel like most can recognize that there are times where soulless Spike can still be a volatile ticking time bomb. He really is capable of extremes in both directions. And while I recognize that many shippers do pair Buffy with Spike without a soul, a good number at least acknowledge that volatility, and that his decision making and attempts at goodness can often be compromised and flawed, specifically because he has no soul.
Angel in comparison has had a hundred years of a soul and conscience to reflect on his past actions and behavior moving forward. Because of this, I’m always going to hold Angel to the higher standard. For nearly all the complaints people have against Angel (and I’m talking Angel, not Angelus), his actions are less justified in the fact that he fully had a soul, he fully had a conscience, and was beyond old enough to know better.
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recallthename · 4 years ago
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oh god they are many.  so like, key to the discussion is that i (obviously) love unhealthy relationships in fiction and think they can be fun even if they’re not like ~dissected and explored in a healthy way.  sometimes toxicity is fun just itself.  
BUT what i find so obnoxious about bangel (particularly in comparison with spuffy) is that there seems to be this notion that it’s not unhealthy.  that they’re this grand, pure love.  that the fault was in their stars, not themselves.  and i’m just sitting here like “... y’all surprise was literally statutory”.  
it’s like when people read and talk about romeo and juliet as if it’s just a love story.  it’s also a goddamn tragedy.  when buffy says “i loved him more than i will ever love anything in this life” in selfless i actually think she’s being honest.  but that’s not a grand, romantic statement.  it’s because their relationship was deeply unhealthy and codependent.  in that very high school way (even though only one side of it was a high schooler).  when she was with angel she couldn’t stand on her own, neither of them would allow it.  she wasn’t a person she was another half of him.  which i know some people find romantic but i find completely horrifying.  buffy couldn’t be her authentic self when she was with him because the type of love they had didn’t allow it.  
i’m not trying to make this about spuffy, but god compared to them?  where spike is used pretty explicitly as a manifestation of the parts of buffy that she hates about herself?  that their love story requires them to not only live as but love their authentic selves?  as evidenced by the mounds and mounds of parallels in their stories?  GOD.
anyway i think the gist of it is that i find bangel to be a boring and tired kind of unhealthy and the shippers to be incredibly hypocritical.  
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whitewolfofwinterfell · 6 years ago
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Angel and Cordelia (Cangel) - an in-depth analysis of their relationship
Angel and Cordelia are a ship I never expected to ship before watching Angel, but since finishing the show around November, I’ve fallen in love with them (and the show generally) and wanted to compile a post where I could express all my thoughts and feelings about them. This meta will be very in-depth and is divided into 9 sections: 
1. ‘Pensiver Face’: Opposites Attract - Will explore Angel and Cordelia’s personalities and the ways in which these two unlikely characters came together and brought out new and wonderful sides to each other. 
2. ‘Help the Helpless’: Finding purpose - Discusses the way in which Angel and Cordelia found purpose in their lives through meeting and the creation of Angel Investigations.
3. ‘We’re family’: Belonging and Family - Insight into how Angel and Cordelia created a family and home with each other that provided them with a sense of belonging (perhaps for the first time in their lives).
4. ‘My Dearest Friend’: Friendship and Love - Looks at Angel and Cordelia’s friendship and how that was at the core of their relationship throughout the series.
5. ‘You’re not alone’: Emotional connection - Uncovers the profound emotional connection Angel and Cordelia established with each other.
6. ‘It’s the stars’: Everyone can see it - Reflects on the common ‘Everyone can see it’ trope and how that was important to Angel and Cordelia’s relationship.
7. ‘Were we in love?’: Romantic love - An exploration of when and how Angel and Cordy’s romantic feelings for each other developed.
8. ‘I’ll be seeing you’: Missed Opportunity - Analyses the writing in seasons 4 and 5, and the ways in which Angel and Cordelia’s relationship was hugely disadvantaged by the writing.
9. ‘There are no people like us’: Why Angel/Cordelia are misunderstood and live in Buffy/Angel’s shadow - Unpicks some of the common misconceptions I’ve seen about Angel and Cordy’s relationship and the how comparisons made between their relationship and Buffy and Angel’s is unfair and does a disservice to both couples. 
As you can see, section 9 does discuss Buffy and Angel, because I really couldn’t discuss Angel and Cordelia without also talking about Angel’s relationship with Buffy since she was so significant to Angel. It won’t be anti-Buffy/Angel (because I’m a huge Bangel shipper, as anyone that follows me will know), but I just wanted to give a warning for those that are a big fan of the ship as you might not want to read. However, the primary focus throughout will be on Angel and Cordelia’s relationship on ATS (I don’t really give much focus to BTVS since their interactions were so brief and lacking).
Before we get into it, I wanted to say this post is long, (coming in at around 9k words, whew! I had more to say than I realised), so if you’re interested in reading you might want to grab a drink or a snack and make yourself comfortable. 
1. ‘Pensiver Face’: Opposites Attract
What makes Angel and Cordelia’s relationship so special is that it’s between two unlikely characters who, on the surface are polar opposites, but that compliment each other beautifully. Cordelia was specifically chosen to be a regular on ATS because she was the opposite to Angel - Whedon stated that Cordelia’s bright smile was needed to counteract Angel’s broody persona (x). The fundamental differences in Angel and Cordelia’s personalities meant that together they brought out different sides to each other. Angel was known for being reserved, contemplative, melancholy, deep and pessimistic, whilst in contrast Cordelia was known for being outgoing, bubbly, outspoken, shallow and optimistic.
Both characters came to ATS season 1 displaying these characteristics which they were well-known for on BTVS, but through meeting each other, they changed. Angel smiled more with Cordelia than arguably any other character in the Buffyverse (x) (x) (x) (x). Her infectious personality, witty sense of humour and straight-talking attitude coaxed him out of his shell. Also, because he was more submissive by nature, Angel responded to Cordelia’s assertiveness - she wasn’t afraid to take charge, call him out on things, make demands of him and ensure he stayed on the right path. She was the one that took charge of the business, launching Angel Investigations from practically nothing; she persuaded Angel that he should pay Gunn for working with them; she didn’t easily relent after he fired her, Wesley and Gunn; she told him he needed to set boundaries with Fred when she had a crush on Angel to prevent Fred from getting hurt; she held him accountable for getting Darla pregnant in season 3; she consistently encouraged him to fight for Connor no matter how hopeless or difficult it became and even in her brief return in season 5 she continued with this pattern. She straight up told Angel that he’d lost his way, lost sight of their mantra to help the helpless and had become entangled in the messiness of W&H. In doing so, she set Angel back on the right path. It’s strange because generally people view Angel as having more positive traits than Cordelia, but despite his good intentions, he was more prone to giving up and wallowing than Cordelia. Angel was more malleable, more willing to accept the bad in the world whilst Cordelia, on the other hand, persevered no matter what obstacles came her way and was firm in her morals. She knew what she believed to be good and she didn’t stray from that no matter what. That clear-cut attitude really helped Angel, who being a vampire and having seen so much evil, often become lost in the blurriness between good and evil, and became disheartened about fighting the good fight on numerous ocassions. Cordelia was truly Angel’s centre of gravity and moral compass - she was the one he relied on most in his redemptive journey and helping the helpless. That’s why throughout the series there was such a heavy emphasis on Angel needing Cordy (x) and why he proclaimed to be lost without her. Angel needing Cordelia was also demonstrative of a deeper emotional connection between them, which I’ll discuss later on.
Whilst Angel and Cordelia’s differences helped/changed Angel, they did the same for Cordy. Cordelia as a person was very focused on superficial gratification. She sought popularity and status, and she enjoyed money and material objects because of the pleasure they brought her. Her desire to become an actress reflects those desires she had. Although Cordelia demonstrated on BTVS that she was much more than the stereotypical popular-shallow girl she was portrayed to be (x), she wasn’t inclined to be considerate of others and empathy didn’t come naturally to her. In comparison, Angel spent a majority of his time thinking of others and had a wealth of empathy, for everybody regardless of whether they were those he loved or strangers; good or bad. There’s no doubt that the visions were a large part of what enabled Cordelia to be more empathetic since she was quite literally experiencing the traumas of others, but being close to Angel also impacted this. Until Cordelia became friends with Angel (and Doyle, Wes and Gunn), she’d never really been prioritised or cared for unconditionally. Angel’s kindness, consideration and support enabled Cordelia to open up emotionally in a way she never had before, not just to those closest to her, but to everybody. Ironically, a vampire (albeit a vampire with a soul) was the deepest insight Cordelia had gained into humanity. Angel devoted himself to helping others and Cordelia witnessed first-hand the positive impact that had on others and the rewards it brought. Whilst she fought against evil alongside the Scoobies on BTVS, it was being part of Angel Investigations that truly showed her the true meaning of fighting. It gave her purpose and belonging, which in turn allowed her to blossom in an entirely new way.
2. ‘Help the Helpless’: Finding purpose
Despite being different in many ways, Angel and Cordelia had one main thing in common - they were both seeking purpose, meaning and belonging in their lives at the start of ATS  - and they found that with each other.
On BTVS Angel went through a traumatic ordeal with losing his soul, being killed by the woman he loved, being trapped in a hell dimension, coming back to life and then having to break up with Buffy. After Angel was cursed and his soul was restored, he retreated into the shadows and lived like a hermit for a century. He no longer belonged in the vampire or the human world, and he was so consumed with the guilt about his actions as Angelus that he was paralysed. He lived a lonely and purposeless existence - until the moment he saw Buffy. Buffy symbolised hope for Angel, because she was destined to fight evil and helping her provided him with a purpose for the first time in decades and I strongly believe that this (amongst other reasons) is why he fell in love with her. So when he split up with her and left for L.A. he lost his purpose along with Buffy. It’s clear that Angel’s time with Buffy and the Scoobies had been so significant to him that he couldn’t return to the life he had before he met Buffy, he needed to continue helping people, but he didn’t know how. Meeting Doyle immediately provided him with a sense of purpose by providing him with a connection to the HP, but as I already mentioned above, Cordelia really cemented that. Although Doyle knew he and Angel had a mission that they needed to work on together, he didn’t know how to make that a reality. Cordelia’s practicality, pragmatism and organisation is what took an idea - helping the helpless - and made it a reality - Angel Investigations. Like I said, Angel knew he wanted to help others but he didn’t really have a plan. When Angel Investigations was born, it became so much more than simply helping the odd person in distress after having stumbled upon them by chance. It became an indefinite commitment and mission which provided Angel with a true purpose - a purpose he realised was the singular most important thing to him in ‘Epiphany’ (2x16).
Cordelia was also in a similar place to Angel when she arrived in L.A. at the start of ATS. During her time on BTVS Cordelia’s character was built upon her status in high-school - she was pretty, rich and popular. Although she wasn’t afraid to stand up for what she believed in (such as defending Xander against her HS friends), she generally sought the approval of others. In HS Cordelia felt that she was somebody and that really came from her popularity and status. However, she admitted that that popularity came with a downside and that she was in fact, very lonely as a result of it (x). Cordelia’s experience in her relationship with Xander only fuelled that loneliness she felt because she isolated herself from her friends to be with him, and when he cheated on her, her ‘friendships’ with the rest of the Scoobies were revealed to be superficial in nature and quickly broke down. By the time she came to ATS, she had left high school and therefore was without her boyfriend (Xander), friends and the status that HS afforded her. This explains why she was on a mission to become a famous actress - to reclaim that status that she’d lost but on an even grander scale. The problem with this is that regardless of how shallow Cordy may have appeared, she clearly craved more than just popularity, fame or money. She’d already had that but it hadn’t  fulfilled her. Enter Angel. Cordelia saw that Angel (and Doyle) needed guidance and that she could bring something important to the table. When she joined Angel and Doyle and set up Angel Investigations, she found her purpose just like Angel did. Initially, Cordelia’s desire to stick with Angel may have been because she didn’t have any other particularly appealing options, but it became so much more than that and by the end of season 1 Cordelia was wholly devoted to helping the helpless (x). In ‘Disharmony’ (2x17) she told Harmony that despite the popularity she had at HS, she was happier than she’d ever been because of the work she was doing, and having that sense of purpose came from meeting Angel. ‘Birthday’ (3x11) further reaffirmed this, when Cordelia chose being with Angel and helping the helpless over her dream of being a famous actress. 
The creation of Angel Investigations (not just the business but also the family) wouldn’t have happened if Angel and Cordelia hadn’t of come together in the way they did. From the beginning, they were the heart of everything it was and when Angel lost Cordy in season 5, he admitted that he lost his way and was lost without her (again, this beckons back to Cordy being Angel’s centre of gravity). Poetically, Cordelia kissing Angel in ‘You’re Welcome’ (5x11) and passing on the vision to him quite literally set Angel (and co.) on the path to their final battle and brought purpose back into his life. But in addition to bringing purpose to each other’s lives through their shared mission of helping the helpless, they brought something else, perhaps more significant - belonging and family.
3. ‘We’re family’: Belonging and Family
Although Angel and Cordelia had bonds with others prior to ATS - Angel had relationships with Darla, Dru, Spike, Buffy; Cordelia with Harmony, Xander and the Scoobies - they never had with anyone else what they found with each other (and the rest of Angel Investigations) (x). In season 1 Cordelia referred to Angel as being her family and Angel reiterated that later in the series. The unconditional support, acceptance and care Angel and Cordelia had towards one other was unlike anything they’d had in any of their previous relationships (particularly for Cordelia).
Angel prioritised Cordelia, he devoted himself to keeping her safe (x) (x), he was always concerned for her well-being and he took the time to get to know her as a person. He didn’t like Cordy because of her status or popularity, he liked her for her and he expressed that numerous times - he told her he liked both versions of her (old and new), that she was an extraordinary woman and that he’d never known anybody like her (x) (x). Likewise, Cordelia accepted Angel - warts and all - without white washing his past or being ignorant to his darkness. She knew Angelus had done terrible things, and that Angel wasn’t immune from making mistakes and she held him accountable for that. But she also encouraged Angel to be open with her about that side of himself, telling him to drink blood in front of her and reassuring him that she and Doyle wouldn’t judge his vamp face (x). Cordelia came face to face with Angelus multiple times and she knew that even with a soul Angel had the capacity for darkness, but she still saw the good in him and believed it out-weighed the bad. She was never under any false illusions that Angel was perfect and that’s why she was firm in her promise that if needs be she would stake Angelus without hesitation.
It’s really that unconditional support and acceptance that led them to consider each other family. What’s most significant about this is that neither of them really had that before ATS. Angel (Liam) grew up in a volatile family situation with an abusive father and Cordelia’s family was so insignificant in her life that we only had a few references to them throughout the course of BTVS and ATS and not a single appearance from them. Neither of them really had a true home or family until they found each other. The friendship they found with each other (and the rest of Angel Investigations) truly was one of the most beautiful things that ever happened to either of them and provided them with a true home for the first time in their lives. In fact, in season 4 Angel explicitly said when Cordelia was missing “We’ll do whatever it takes to bring her home, where she belongs”, which perfectly sums up the title for this section about belonging and family. The bond they forged was one of the first they established with another that felt completely secure and contented (which is also why Cordelia reacted so negatively to him abandoning her, Wes and Gunn in season 2 over Darla), because at it’s core it was a friendship built upon familial love, which in my opinion, is the strongest and most enduring love there is.
4. ‘My Dearest Friend’: Friendship and Love
The most common argument I’ve seen against Angel and Cordelia as a romantic ship is, “They should’ve just stayed friends, they were better that way”. My issue with this is that Angel and Cordelia didn’t just fulfil one or the other - friendship or romance - they fulfilled both and so much more (x). What makes Angel and Cordelia’s relationship so special is that they morphed from acquaintances, to coworkers, to confidantes, to friends, to family, to lovers and were often some (or all) of these things to each other at once. Their feelings for each other cannot be boxed in, because they encompass so much, but there is no disputing that they loved each other.
Angel and Cordy had a profound connection spanning across the entirety of ATS, that no amount of words I type can quite express. They were a constant presence in each others’ lives for years, they were by each others’ sides through some of the most significant events of their lives and they shared it all - the highs and lows, the good and bad. Even when their romantic feelings came into fruition, their friendship remained unchanged. Nothing could change that fundamental dynamic between them or the ease with which they communicated and bounced off of one another. Any scene between Angel and Cordy has a natural chemistry (the nature of that chemistry is up to interpretation), and even when Angel was a awkward, bumbling and flustered fool, their interactions never felt strained or uncomfortable. This is because they knew each other so well and were so attuned to each other, but also because their relationship was already so well established by the time they realised they had romantic feelings for each other that there was no danger of those feelings complicating or endangering that friendship. It’s why in ‘Spin the Bottle’ (4x06) Angel told Cordelia that she was his dearest friend and he wanted that back. He was able to push aside his romantic feelings and desires because her friendship was more important to him than anything else.
Some may claim it’s weird for two people who referred to each other as family to be in love with each other, but when you’re in love with someone they are your family. The fact that Angel and Cordelia had that kind of connection provided them with the closeness, comfortableness, familiarity and security for those romantic feelings to blossom. Angel, in particular, had an aversion to romance because of The Curse and his experience with Buffy, but he felt so safe with Cordelia that it’s almost like he allowed himself to feel that way about him. Likewise, Cordelia was rather guarded in matters of the heart given her romantic history with Xander, but she felt so safe with Angel that she was able to finally open herself up in that way without even really realising she was. That profound connection between them can’t really be quantified, but can be seen in their actions.
5. ‘You’re not alone’: Emotional connection
When I say that it would do them a disservice to try and box Angel and Cordelia’s relationship into the platonic or romantic arena, that’s because of the emotional connection they shared which extends beyond such labels.
According to Wiki, ‘Emotional intimacy is a psychological event that happens when trust levels and communication between two people are such that it fosters the mutual sharing of one another's deepest selves.’ It involves trust, mutual trust, sense of community, understanding, open communication and sharing a duty. As you read this I’m sure you’re realising that Angel and Cordelia had all of this. They lived in close proximity day after day for years - they worked together, they fought together, they laughed together, they loved the same people (Doyle, Wes, Gunn, Fred, Connor), they grieved together (for Doyle and Connor), they shared the same beliefs and morals and they were united in the same mission to help the helpless. All of this led to them developing a profound emotional connection whereby they came to rely on each other and trust each other, and were able to open up to each other without fear of judgement or rejection (x). Throughout the series Angel and Cordy had multiple heart to hearts in which they confided in each other, encouraged or reassured each other and those talks became more regular as their connection grew. Something as simple as Angel calling Cordelia ‘Cordy’ (which he didn’t do until ATS ‘Are You Now or Have You Ever Been?’ 2x02) demonstrated that developing connection between them.
Again, it would be futile for me to list every example of when Angel and Cordelia had a scene that showed this emotional connection (particularly since you’ll have seen them all if you’ve watched the show), but off the top of my head some key examples would be - Cordelia helped Angel open up about Doyle’s death after Angel accidentally called Wesley Doyle; Cordelia helped Angel to open up about Buffy’s death after he’d spent 3 months trying to come to terms with it; when Cordelia fell ill from a vision Angel reassured her that her value to him wasn’t invested solely in her visions; generally Angel supported Cordelia repeatedly through the trauma of her visions; after Connor was born Angel developed an overly-protective paternal instinct and wouldn’t let anybody hold him, and Cordelia was the first he allowed to hold him; after Connor’s kidnapping Cordelia was able to simply sit with him in the silence and provide the emotional support no one else could and when Angel was insecure about bonding with Connor (after his return) she reassured him he was a capable and loving father. 
Nothing showed the depth of that emotional connection more than the beginning of season 4 when Angel was at the bottom of the ocean. In order to hold on to his sanity, Angel repeatedly dreamt of Cordelia in various romantic scenarios and admitted to Wes and Gunn when he returned that the one thing that had kept him holding on was the thought of returning home to Cordelia. Cordy and his love for her was the tether to his humanity, his hope when everything was hopeless, his light in the dark. 
I could continue exploring this because their emotional connection is demonstrated in nearly every scene they have together, but the point has been made that Angel and Cordelia consistently opened up to one another and were by each other’s sides through the hardest of times. Although they both had the rest of Angel Investigations (Wesley, Gunn, Fred and Lorne), they primarily turned to each other in their time or need or when they were feeling low. They instinctively knew what to do/say to ease each other’s insecurities, fears or anxieties and were each other’s source of emotional strength. What’s even more significant about this is that their connection was so profound, that even those around them noticed it. 
6. ‘It’s the stars’: Everyone can see it
‘Everyone can see it’ is a popular romantic trope whereby a couple are perfect for each other but don’t realise their feelings for one another, but everyone else around them does. This was an integral part of Angel and Cordelia’s relationship since they found it very difficult, as friends, to make sense of their romantic feelings for each other and to acknowledge those feelings.
The first person to notice the chemistry between Angel and Cordelia was Fred in ‘Offspring’ (3x07). After seeing them sparring Fred spoke about kyrumption (two heroes meeting in battle and recognising their same fate) and moira (the gut physical attraction between two larger-than-life souls). Angel’s feelings for Cordelia had already been present long before then, but Fred’s observations provided him with an opportunity to acknowledge them for the first time and reflect on them. 
Lorne being an empath naturally had an insight into Angel’s feelings and in ‘Waiting in the Wings’ (3x13) he revealed that he’d read Angel and knew he had feelings for Cordelia. Like Fred, he also spoke of kyrumption and told Angel that the way he was feeling for Cordelia was real. Lorne consistently was attuned to Angel’s feelings for Cordelia and understood that they’d grown beyond friendship. He also actively encouraged Angel to act on them because he believed Cordelia felt the same way about him and he shouldn’t miss the chance to see what they could be. 
I watched ‘Waiting in the Wings’ with commentary from Whedon last week and in that he explained that the spell was a way for Angel and Cordelia to act on the feelings they had for each other (that they were only just starting to realise) in a way whereby they didn’t actually have to admit that they had those feelings and wanted to act on them (because they were afraid of the consequences). Fred and Lorne’s observations are very much the same - they’re a conduit through which Angel was able to internally explore his growing romantic feelings for Cordy and slowly come to the realisation that he was in love with her. 
7. ‘Were we in love?’: Romantic love
Although I’ve been primarily focused on the general connection between Angel and Cordelia and what they brought to each other’s lives, there was definitely romantic love and attraction between the two of them and it’s important to discuss that.
I think when people compare Angel and Cordy’s relationship to Angel’s relationship with Buffy people feel Angel’s love for Cordelia wasn’t romantic or passionate, but it was, it’s just that the love he had for Cordy and their relationship was so fundamentally different from his relationship with Buffy that the two can’t really be compared. Buffy was Angel’s epic, great love - it consumed him from the inside out, it was intense, passionate and devastating - but Cordy was something entirely different. She wasn’t supposed to be some big epic love, she was supposed to be a friend with whom he developed a strong bond with and slowly came to fall in love with over time. Their love wasn’t characterised by angst-ridden scenes, grand speeches of forbidden love and sexual tension - it was grounded in family, friendship and emotional connection (as I’ve explored above). Their feelings for each other weren’t sudden and didn’t start out big (they truly were just acquaintances at the start of ATS season 1), but as they spent time together, shared experiences and got to know each other, their romantic feelings quietly grew in the background until neither of them could ignore it anymore.
It’s frustrating that we never got a clear admission of love between the two (all of their love confessions were to other people or cut off before they finished), but there is no doubt in my mind that Angel and Cordelia were in love. Their actions proved that and from a personal perspective, I could feel the love between them. Everyone will have different interpretations of when they believe the pair fell in love, but interestingly, I don’t think there’s supposed to be ‘one moment’ that they fell in love, because the whole point of their relationship is that it was never that clear cut. They didn’t go to bed one night as best friends and wake up the next day a think, “I’m in love with Angel/Cordelia!”. It was a subtle evolution of feelings over time, which neither of them truly noticed until it was brought to their attention by others, because they were so used to being friends and navigating within the realms of that, that they didn’t consider the possibility that their feelings could have gone beyond that.
Since ATS was primarily focused on Angel’s POV, it’s very easy to follow Angel’s evolving feelings for Cordelia and attempt to pin-point the moment at which his romantic feelings came to fruition. Like I said, I don’t think there was one particular moment where Angel realised his feelings for Cordelia, but in my opinion, they had definitley developed by ‘Dead End’ (2x18). At the beginning of season 2, Angel had a crisis due to Darla’s return and he fired Cordelia, Wesley and Gunn. It was really the darkest we saw Angel get in ATS whilst he had his soul, he truly lost his way for a while and Cordelia was so hurt and angry by his actions that she couldn’t forgive him. When Angel finally realised he’d made a mistake cutting his friends out of his life, he did everything he could to make amends, but he seemed most affected by the loss of Cordelia’s friendship and he was determined to earn her forgiveness. What’s interesting about this is that at this point one could argue that Angel’s friendship with Cordelia wasn’t that profound and it didn’t particularly matter if they made up, because they still could’ve worked together as co-workers (although it might’ve been a little awkward and uncomfortable). But Angel was adamant that he wanted her friendship back and almost the entirety of ‘Epiphany’ (2x16) was focused on Angel’s desire to make amends with Cordy and his devastation when she refused to accept him back. This continued in ‘Disharmony’ (2x17), with him desperately fighting to earn her forgiveness and ending with him winning Cordelia over by buying her clothes, which he was visibly happy about (x). Angel’s reaction at the prospect of losing Cordelia beckons back to ‘To Shanshu to L.A.’ (1x22) when we witnessed for the first time how scared he was to lose her and also suggests that at this point in season 2 his romantic feelings were developing for her. In the following episode ‘Dead End’ (2x18), he was so focused on making Cordelia feel better (and this was likely a continuation of him making it up to her) that he brought her food and his reaction to her saying she loved him was perhaps the brightest smile I’ve ever seen on Angel’s face (x). In ‘Belonging’ (2x19), Angel’s attraction to Cordelia was made clear when he saw her in a bikini and he also expressed anger at the director of the commercial she was filming for treating her like a ‘commodity’ and a ‘slave’, forcing him to apologise to Cordelia for the way he spoke to her and telling Cordelia he would rip his head off if she wanted him to. When Cordelia was sucked into the portal to Pylea in ‘Over the Rainbow’ (2x20), Angel’s profound emotional connection to Cordelia was clear (x) - he just wanted her back, he didn’t care how or what they had to do and he expressed that he couldn’t lose Cordy again after just getting her back (also that one line, ‘It’s Cordy’, that Angel says to Wesley when he tells Angel it’s too dangerous to go through the portal and they may never get back holds so much emotion). When Cordelia admitted to loving Groo in Pylea, Angel mistakenly thought she was saying it to him and was disappointed to learn otherwise. So basically, by the end of season 2 Angel undoubtedly had romantic feelings for Cordelia, but wasn’t yet aware of them. Season 3 continued to build on that by allowing Angel to heal following Buffy’s death and reach a resolution  in ‘Heartthrob’ (3x01) whereby he could start to process his feelings for Cordy, putting him a situation where he was faced with the prospect of losing her again, therefore cementing the depth of his feelings for her (‘That Vision Thing’ 3x02) and having Fred share her observations about his feelings for her, finally allowing him to fully acknowledge them for the first time. 
From Cordelia’s POV it’s much harder to guess when her romantic feelings for Angel developed, because we didn’t get as much insight into her. I do think her feelings for him didn’t come as soon as Angel’s did for her and neither did the realisation that she felt that way. ‘That Vision Thing’ (3x02) hints that Cordelia’s feelings for Angel may have begun to grow beyond friendship when she said, “If I lose the visions I wouldn't be able to help you anymore. You wouldn't need me.” Notice, Cordelia was concerned with Angel needing her, not the rest of the team. Also, since Angel was so devoted to saving Cordelia and explicitly told her she was more important to him than his vendetta against W&H, we can assume this impacted Cordelia’s feelings towards him since this was perhaps the first time she noticed how committed he was to keeping her safe and how much he wanted her in his life. I also think that witnessing Angel go through the process of becoming a father significantly impacted Cordy’s feelings for Angel. Seeing him take on the role of a father showed an even softer, nurturing side of him and the bond Cordy developed with Connor also brought them closer together. However, ‘Birthday’ (3x11) is the first episode that properly affirms the depth of Cordelia’s feelings for Angel. She was given everything she ever wanted - fame, money, stardom - and she gave it all up to return to Angel. Despite having no memory, upon seeing Angel so broken, Cordelia instinctively leaned in and kissed him fulfilling the old fairy-tale trope of true love’s kiss breaking the spell. I think from Cordelia’s POV, she was much more closed off to allowing herself to acknowledge her romantic feelings for Angel because she didn’t even consider Angel a romantic option given The Curse. This also explains why upon Groo’s return in season 3, she resumed her relationship with him despite having clearly developed profound romantic feelings for Angel that led her to prioritise him above Groo repeatedly to the point that Groo himself noticed that she had feelings for Angel.
This brings me back to the main point about Angel and Cordelia’s romantic feelings for each other never being straightforward or easily defined. In ‘Waiting in the Wings’ (3x13) it was clear - spell or no spell - that Angel and Cordelia shared a mutual sexual attraction and that Angel’s canonically confirmed romantic feelings for Cordelia were reciprocated. Yet Cordelia didn’t confirm her feelings for him explicitly to the audience until 9 episodes later in the finale of the season. This is for a number of reasons, but primarily because it was easier to continue denying their feelings and remain friends than face the complications that a romance posed. Even if they had been given the chance to openly express their feelings for each other, what would’ve happened next? As Angel said to Lorne in ‘Waiting in the Wings’, what could he offer her (as a cursed vampire)? It would’ve been too complicated and they knew that.
That criss-cross and complexity of their love is part of the reason I love them so much, because it’s authentic and relatable. Particularly in the case of friends who have fallen in love - it’s no easy transition and it’s definitely not easy to make sense of your feelings Plus, Angel and Cordy had the added complications that went with their life (Angel being a vampire, The Curse, Darla, their friends, Angel Investigations, W&H and the supernatural world generally, to name a few). In an interview a long time ago SMG said that the most heartbreaking thing about Buffy and Angel was that it was unfulfilled love, and in this respect so are Angel and Cordelia. It’s heartbreaking because they truly loved one another but they were never even given the opportunity to see what they could potentially be. They missed their chance and because of that they were always left wondering ‘what if?’ 
8. ‘I’ll be seeing you’: Missed Opportunity 
The fact that Angel and Cordy never got their shot to be together (which they discussed in ‘You’re Welcome’ 5x11) is the tragedy of their love. However, it wouldn’t be the same love story if it didn’t have that unresolved element to it. Everybody longs for closure and resolution with their ships, but the truth is, in real life few people truly get that, they simply have to move on and live with their regrets. But whilst I love Angel and Cordelia’s relationship and story as it is, there’s no escaping the fact that they were done dirty in seasons 4 and 5 in regards to the writing and as a result their story did go in a...shall we say unfavourable direction? 
Everyone that’s ever watched ATS has problems with season 4 (I could write a separate post about the problems with season 4, particularly in regards to Cordelia’s character), and when it comes to Angel and Cordelia’s relationship, there’s a lot that was handled badly which unfortunately, derailed the beautiful development that took place between them in season 3. We still had a lot of key moments that played out between Angel and Cordelia in season 4, but the main problem with the season is that we don’t actually know when Cordelia was actually Cordelia. At what point was she herself, if she ever was? Did she really have amnesia? If so, can we count amnesia!Cordy as still being Cordy to an extent? When did Jasmine start to take over? Did she have any agency at all when she was possessed by Jasmine, even if it was only the briefest of moments? All of these questions remain unanswered and make it very difficult to fully assess the Angel/Cordelia relationship during season 4, but I’m going to try to anyway. 
What remained clear throughout season 4 was that Angel loved Cordy. In fact, despite Cordelia technically being absent for the majority of the season, it was very Cangel-heavy, perhaps more than the seasons before it. Angel had multiple dreams/fantasies about Cordelia, devoted himself to finding her when she was missing at the start of the season, was visibly distraught to have her lose her memories and strike up a relationship with Connor, and lost his soul from a fantasy of making love to her. In my opinion, this is the season that really affirmed that Angel was in love with Cordy beyond any doubt. When Angel asked Cordelia if they were in love and she replied, “We were”, I strongly believe that was Cordelia. She’d just gotten her memories back so Jasmine hadn’t had chance to worm her way to the forefront yet, and I believe in that moment that was Cordelia finally breaking through and telling Angel that she loved him. Although the circumstances are ambiguous to say the least, I believe this to be the first admission of love exchanged between the two whereby the words were said plainly (because obviously they said ‘I love you’ to each other repeatedly before this moment in other ways). However, this doesn’t undo the dirty that was done to Angel and Cordelia in this season. Despite the fact that we know Cordelia wasn’t responsible for any of her actions since she was possessed by Jasmine, it’s still very hard when watching her with Connor to separate Jasmine from Cordelia. And from Angel’s perspective, he literally watched the woman he loved have sex with his son. Finding out afterwards that it wasn’t actually Cordelia doesn’t reduce the devastating impact of witnessing that and the way the Cordelia!Jasmine arc was written did taint some aspects of their relationship by forcing Angel to have to witness ‘Cordelia’ enter into a romantic relationship with Connor and have a child with him. Also, it was utterly ridiculous and unbelievable that Angel and co. wouldn’t recognise that Cordy wasn’t herself. This is definitely a writing issue, because the whole possession thing was handled so badly in the respect that Cordelia seemed like herself (even her sleeping with Connor was believable due to her amnesiac state), but it was still not in-keeping with the show that none of her friends (and especially Angel) would notice that Cordelia was possessed. Overall, season 4 did a huge disservice to Angel and Cordelia’s romance (although the biggest disservice was definitely done to Cordelia’s character) and whilst their relationship was beautifully developed in seasons 1-3, season 4 stopped that development in its tracks. 
Season 5 continued to do a disservice to Cordelia (and Angel and Cordelia) by practically erasing Cordy from existence (I know that backstage issues with the cast need to be taken into consideration here, but the lack of consideration to Cordelia’s character is still a valid point to discuss). Despite how utterly terrified Angel was whenever faced with the prospect of losing Cordelia, in season 5 he was visibly fine about Cordelia being in a coma and wasn’t even attempting to pull her out of it. The fact that Angel (and co.) would simply stand by and go on with the rest of their lives without devoting every single second to waking Cordy  is ridiculous and completely OOC for all of them. Angel, Wes, Gunn, Fred, Lorne and Cordy were deeply connected and would have done anything for each other, and there’s no way they would’ve given up on Cordy like that. But back to the point, despite Angel being in love with Cordelia throughout season 4, there was no reference to his feelings for her until ‘You’re Welcome’ (5x11). Now, don’t get me wrong, I love that episode and I always will, but I also can’t help but notice how out of place that episode feels within the rest of the season. In the episodes leading up to it Cordelia was barely mentioned and in the episodes afterwards, her death was completely ignored with only a few passing references from Angel near the end of the season (don’t even get me started on the fact that she didn’t even get a funeral. What the hell was that all about?!?!? This is Cordy.) Furthermore, Angel reverted back to being actively in love with Buffy (particularly in ‘The Girl in Question’ 5x20, which is honestly such a bad episode, I can’t even) with no consideration given to the fact that he had feelings for Cordelia. Personally, I believe all of these consistencies come from fan pandering - the reaction to Angel and Cordelia becoming a couple was very negative so they reverted back to the Angel/Buffy relationship because it was so popular and well-loved. But back to, ‘You’re Welcome’, the episode definitely redeemed some of what was done to Cordelia (and her relationship with Angel) by giving her/them a satisfying ending after an horrendous season 4, but nothing can truly make up for the fact that Angel and Cordelia’s relationship was so abruptly ended in the manner it was. It also can’t make up for the fact that we missed out on two entire seasons worth of development that we would’ve potentially got if the Jasmine plot hadn’t taken place (again, I understand this was largely down to behind-the-scenes complications with Charisma and Whedon). 
These flaws in the writing (and execution of the relationship) in seasons 4 and 5 is far and above my biggest criticism of Angel and Cordelia’s relationship as a whole (although it’s a criticism of the writers more so than Cordelia and Angel or David and Charisma). It never would have made sense for Angel and Cordy to have a plain sailing fairy-tale romance, but they had so much more potential and could have grown to become something even more beautiful if season 4 had continued to build upon their development from seasons 1-3. ‘You’re Welcome’ perfectly demonstrates the potential they had and what they could’ve become if Cordelia hadn’t been possessed by Jasmine. And that was only a taster and we could’ve had, we could’ve so much more. In my opinion, there were no limits on where their relationship could have been taken since it was so well written, built-up and established leading up to season 4. The fact that we’ll never know how the relationship would’ve played out if it had continued is sad, but as I said, that missed chance that they had is key to Angel and Cordelia’s relationship. It’s the one that got away, the love that could never be and that one person whom we always wonder, “What if?” about. 
9. ‘There are no people like us’: Why Angel/Cordelia are misunderstood and live in Buffy/Angel’s shadow
The final section I wanted to do is an exploration of the reasons why I feel Cordelia and Angel are misunderstood as a ship and how I believe this primarily stems from the fact that they live in Buffy/Angel’s shadow. This is where I’ll be comparing Angel/Cordelia and Buffy/Angel, so if you’re a fan of Buffy/Angel, you may not want to read this final section. However, this isn’t anti-Buffy/Angel, it’s really me working through my own thoughts and feelings as both a Buffy/Angel and a Angel/Cordelia shipper (yes, we exist haha). 
People have a tendency to make comparisons between the Angel/Cordelia and Buffy/Angel relationship two relationships, when in reality (as I’ve mentioned above) the two aren’t really comparable. Angel’s relationships with Buffy and Cordelia were distinctive, took place under completely different circumstances and brought different things to his life. Angel was fully engaged in a romantic relationship with Buffy for 2 years (on and off), but he never had the opportunity to do that with Cordelia. The romantic feelings were there, as was the potential for them to act on that and see what they could be, but it didn’t happen. So to compare the two relationships (when technically Angel and Cordy never entered into a romantic relationship) is futile to say the least. However, people naturally make those comparisons and when they do they seem to come up with two key reasons Angel/Cordelia are inferior to Buffy/Angel:
1. Sexual relationship/chemistry - It hasn’t escaped my attention that Buffy and Angel have a lot more sexual chemistry than Angel and Cordelia. Honestly, in my opinion, nothing can really compare to SMG/David chemistry, it’s so damn good. However, this criticism simply fails to understand that Angel and Cordelia’s love/connection never was primarily one of a sexual nature (notice that every fantasy Angel ever had of Cordelia was romantic not sexual). Romance was definitely part of their relationship (particularly in seasons 3, 4 and 5) and they had an attraction and they had chemistry (’Waiting in the Wings’ damn well proved that), but their relationship was never about sex. In comparison to Angel and Buffy, their relationship was deeply rooted in attraction. From the moment they meet each other they’re very physically attracted to each other and in seasons 1 and 2 they both make references made to how badly they want to kiss each other whenever they’re together, whilst in season 3 they discuss the difficulties they find in fighting against their sexual attraction to each other. As a result, Angel and Buffy’s relationship was always heavily steeped in sexual tension. The fact that Angel and Cordelia’s relationship didn’t have the same level of sexual attraction doesn’t make that relationship any less important, just different (which I know I keep saying, but it’s kind of my whole argument here - the two relationships are so fundamentally different you can’t compare them). 
2. Buffy is Angel’s one and only true love - There’s no denying that Buffy was and always will be Angel’s great love, but to quote one of my not-so-favourite shows (The Vampire Diaries), contrary to popular belief, people can (and usually do) have more than one great love in their lives. Clinging too tightly to the Buffy/Angel relationship ignores the immense changes Angel undergoes on ATS and the fact he moved on from Buffy (up until Spike’s return in season 5, which reverts him back to being kind of obsessed with Buffy, which is such bad writing and so inconsistent that it annoys me. And this isn’t  including crossovers either, because damn, they’re so problematic/inconsistent and I didn’t even realised until I watched ATS, but I can see now why the writers didn’t want to do too many crossovers despite the fans wanting them). Buffy was always in Angel’s heart and he always carried her with him, but he didn’t actively pine over her or yearn for her when he moved to L.A. (he did more so in season 1 and particularly after the events of ‘I Will Remember You’, but he slowly moved on). Angel conclusively and healthily moved on from Buffy - he established a life for himself which he loved and made him happy, he found a home, friends and embarked on a new love with Cordy. When two people have shared a love like Angel did with Buffy, it never goes away but it does change and it almost grows dormant (for reference, there’s a brilliant meta that discusses Angel moving on from Buffy which you can read here). To use a real life example here, my mom (who’s now 50) has been in around 5 serious long-term relationships in her life and has been with her current partner for 5 years and is completely in love with him. However, she’s openly admitted to me that she loved my dad more than she’s ever loved any man and she still regards him the love of her life. That doesn’t mean she’s still in love with him, because she’s not. She hasn’t seen him in two decades, she’s moved on and she’s found love with someone new. That love she had with him is a memory in her head and her heart, but it has no place in her life now. She’s a different person, her life has changed dramatically and that love is in the past. If he rocked up now he’d be a stranger to her and regardless of those memories she has of him, he’s no longer the person she’s in love with. That’s exactly what happened with Buffy and Angel. They always loved each other, but Angel truly did move forward (whether Buffy moved on is something I’m less unsure of). In ‘Heartthrob’ (3x01) Angel told James that he’d lost the woman he loved (Buffy) and that he had loved her with his whole heart. In response, James said that that couldn’t be true because if it was, when she had died Angel would’ve died along with her. After that, in a scene with Cordy (x), Angel admitted that he was okay and had dealt with Buffy’s death and how he felt guilty about that. In my opinion, this episode (and those scenes in particular) confirmed that Angel had moved on from Buffy and had gotten to a place where he could finally open himself up to Cordelia wholeheartedly. In fact, David spoke about how Angel had moved on from Buffy and that Cordy was what he needed (he also mentioned Darla, which is a topic I won’t get into because I could write an entirely separate post about that too) and here’s what he said: 
Interviewer: Darla killed herself, right? The baby's mother? Who's gonna step up and help Angel raise the baby? Buffy?
David: God, no. Buffy's pretty much out of the picture. They've played their storyline and that's just the past. I think between Cordelia and Fred he'll be mommied to death. But, Buffy's just the past.
Interviewer: Oh, come on. Buffy can never really be just the past, can she? I mean, that's Angel's soulmate.
David: I think Darla was probably his soulmate. I mean, they spent a hundred years together, then made a baby. You can't just--
Interviewer: Well, then Buffy was his first love.
David: Angel was Buffy's first love, but Angel loved Darla in a sick way.
Interviewer: I'm a Buffy/Angel fan. Sorry.
David: You're forgiven. No, I'm just saying that the two shows are on different networks and it's not gonna happen. There's no more story there for those two. Buffy isn't Angel's priority anymore. In season one and two of our show, she was always in the back of his mind, well, now it's all about the baby and Buffy is just, well, she's just a person he used to know.
Interviewer : Awww, come on! The story there was so incredible.
David: And like every good story, it came to an end. And then started over. On. Different. Networks. (again with the emphasis)
Interviewer : Is Angel going to hook up with Cordy?
David: Well, I'm all for it. I don't know what the writers have planned in that regard, but I'm a fan of Charisma's work and I'd love for our characters to be romantically involved. Cordy is really what Angel needs, I believe. (x)
See, it’s important to acknowledge that as amazing as Buffy and Angel’s story was, they broke up and went their separate ways. As David rightfully pointed out, it was the past and Buffy was no longer his priority. It’s always frustrated me that Angel was expected not to move on and to pine for Buffy, whilst Buffy was allowed to move on and find love again. The argument is that Angel was so much older than Buffy that he couldn’t or rather shouldn’t want to find love, whilst Buffy was still young, but the problem is, although Angel was technically old, he was still a teenager himself in terms of his experiences in love. He didn’t have a soul for 100 years so was incapable of love and then he spent 100 years when he had a soul cut off from the world. He had barely experienced anything the world had to offer and he certainly hadn’t had the opportunity to forge connections with others or explore the world of love. Buffy was able to move on from Angel and experience different types of relationships/loves with Parker (urgh), Riley and Spike (amongst others who she flirted with or briefly dated post-BTVS season 3). Angel deserved the same opportunity to experience new types of relationships that were different than the one he had with Buffy. I’m going to use another quote The Vampire Diaries because I feel it sums this up perfectly, “I realised that I may not be able to explain what I feel for her, but it is something, and, yeah, maybe all love isn't true love in the messed up way that you and I have experienced it, but I think this could turn into something even better.” This right here is exactly how I perceive Angel’s feelings for Buffy and Cordelia to be. Angel had only ever loved one person, Buffy was all he’d ever known of love and it was so big, messy and all-consuming , but with Cordelia he realised that love didn’t necessarily have to be like that and that there are different types of love. 
There’s no disputing that Angel never loved Cordelia in the same way he loved Buffy (which this post explains perfectly) - Angel will never love anyone the way he loved Buffy, but he did fall in love with Cordelia and she enriched his life in new ways and filled a void in him in much the same way Buffy did. During ATS Cordelia surpassed Buffy in importance simply because of the place she had in Angel’s life - she was the center of his world and without her it wouldn’t be the same (we saw that in season 5). It would be unfair to claim Angel couldn’t or shouldn’t love someone else just because he had such an intense love with Buffy. What makes his relationship with Cordelia so special is that it was so different than the love he had with Buffy. Those two loves will always sit in contrast to each other, but will never overshadow or replace one another because they’re both significant and special for different reasons. 
The point of talking about this was really just to highlight that Angel and Cordelia’s relationship is not by any means invalid or inferior because of Buffy/Angel. Both relationships are important and exist in contrast to each other. Angel and Cordelia’s relationship does tend to be misunderstood and/or unappreciated due to the nature of the writing (which had a lot of problems in seasons 4 and 5, and even a little in season 3) and because they’re too heavily compared to the hot and heavy romance between Angel and Buffy. However, Angel and Cordelia’s relationship developed organically over time in a subtle way and is demonstrative of how much relationships can evolve as life progresses and circumstances change, and how two people can grow together. Theirs was a story about two people, who in the beginning were indifferent to each other, but grew to know each other profoundly and found a lot through being in each others lives - purpose, belonging, family, friendship and love - and through having and sharing that, they fell in love. It’s not a conventional romantic love as most of us would expect, and they didn’t have the chances to fully explore their romantic connection because their story ended prematurely, but it was a beautiful relationship embedded in human connection and friendship at the deepest and purest level.
If you got to the end of this, thank you so much for reading. This took me days and days to write and edit, so I’m really grateful to you for reading and would appreciate likes/reblogs if you found this interesting. I’d also love to hear your thoughts on this topic, so if you have any feel free to stop by my ask box :)
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tinkdw · 7 years ago
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Have you noticed a trend or a pattern like certain ships or ship dynamics attracting certain kinds of people? Im not trying to start wank. Im curious bc ALL my rl friends ship my notps like Bill & Sookie over Eric & Sookie. Bangel over Spuffy. Bibro over destiel. And since I have emotional/mental problems, i worry its me bc Im drawn to or I romanticize dysfunctional unhealthy relationships. (Btw my fave Spuffy argument is how Angelus and Spike viewed their souls. A curse vs atonement)
Hi :)
Firstly I want to say please don’t worry about things you like! If you like it you like it, unless it’s causing you or someone else harm it’s all good :)
Yes I have noticed a link, I’ve been discussing it recently actually with friends, how there seems to (generally not always but generally) be a Bangel/Sookie x Bill/Wincest divide v Spuffy/Sookie x Eric/Destiel in shippers.
It comes down to why you like things I guess and it does totally make sense to like either an obvious 
1.Bangel/Sookie x Bill/Wincest: “first love” or just... first on screen, kind of thing that is quite soulmate-y and including a power imbalance, a kind of “save me prince charming” thing, dark and exciting to watch, the word I hate passionate where what it really means is emotionally abusive and even quite depreciative, with an element of one (usually the woman) being young, naive and wide eyed (the kind of thing that often is pushed on teenage stories because “teenage girls love this” well yeah cos it’s all we got when I was a teen and urgh no more thank you! I’m looking at you Twilight/50 shades! I don’t want this for my teenage girl if I have one!).
versus 
2. Spuffy/Sookie x Eric/Destiel: something that is much more long term in coming, takes shape over time, is deep in the narrative, ends up being really quite healthy in terms of real life comparisons with a more equal power balance, making the “male figure” far more soft and giving the “female figure” more power in a het relationship and in a same sex still with a similar meeting in the middle concept, giving them more agency in the relationship (especially the woman when it’s het as usually she’s younger and in awe of the first boyfriend but older and more world wise by the time it comes to the second), giving her far more choice in the matter, totally not soulmate-y at all but about them growing up.
This is just a random person opinion, based on what I’ve seen. Though I have spoken to people where we discussed the way Buffy/Angel as shows finished around the time SPN started and how the exact same online dialogue and terms - eg “delusional”, “unhealthy”, “pandering” “the show is going to shit” - started coming about in SPN fandom and clearly were the same people who were just as vile about SPN as they were Buffy/Angel so I do think there is a clear link as well as the one I had already noted psychologically:
https://tinkdw.tumblr.com/post/171169423912/rahirah-tesla1321-tinkdw-i-wonder-if-the
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willowrosenboob · 4 years ago
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Long asks anon back, I'm late but regarding the chosen scene, it wasn't really the kiss I liked in the beginning so much as the conversation afterwards? I agree with you on how it felt so out of field in the way the whole thing was inserted and it def feels like they were throwing bangel shippers a bone without offering any concrete answer on what their fate might be, but in between the kiss and Buffy telling him it might be "years afterwards", I mainly liked that their conversation felt more balanced in comparison to the previous times when it came to their relationship in question, and that Buffy got to have her say in what she thinks of it but wasn't gonna sit through Angel's dumb jealousy over Spike. And I was referring to the morality thing that their shippers focus on being on the characters, and specifically how by the point at which Angel shows up, he's technically already a 'good guy'. It's more or less something that I've seen be reflected in their taste for other ships as well, where they prefer the "better" guy who on the surface looks ok and the narrative wants us to think that, but his actions often aren't really as good and completely pure as they are shown as. In comparison, characters like Spike or even Faith are shown as dangerous or bad in the seasons or moments they're introduced, but we at least get to see their journey in detail to trying to redeem themselves, which for me kind of makes their story more honest? if that makes sense. Thank you so much for your answers, btw!
oh yeah, I definitely get that. for me though, I find the kiss to get in the way of my enjoyment of the rest of the scene. plus there’s the whole ‘sometimes i think that far ahead’ that felt like a really weak attempt at giving bangel shippers a possibility of an endgame, but i digress. I do like the cookie dough speech part of the conversation, and I like that buffy is more confident in her role as a slayer, she understands that she’s still growing, and that there is nothing wrong with her. sometimes i’m bothered that angel is such a huge focus in this big moment for her, but i agree that it felt a lot more mature and equal, even if i wouldn’t personally put it in my top 10 bangel scenes.
i understood what you meant about morality, i was just clarifying what my original post meant. i find i do actually agree with you for the most part. sometimes character that the narrative shoehorn in as ‘the good guys’ tend to be some of the worst characters. i find i feel most strongly about this with riley, cause i actually like early btvs angel to an extent (he’s just such an awkward puppy, it’s hilarious), but i get why someone wouldn’t like him at all.
also, so true about villains like spike and faith. that’s part of why i like enemies to lovers and redemption arcs, cause we really get to learn about why the villains are the way they are in a way you never really get with the good guys. and when they make the switch to good it’s just so much more believable. villain rights!
thank you for the asks. i love discussing btvs <333
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handlewithkara · 4 years ago
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I definitely see the parallels as well, in there being a very similar mood, particularly in how Buffy has to send Angel to hell to save the world and then grieves for him. 
I do think that there are a lot of differences in execution: 
Buffy overall went to a lot of darker places (Buffy dying repeatedly, the way it feels critical of the council versus how the DEO feels, Spuffy in general)
Angel being a vampire makes him fundamentally different from Buffy. By comparison I feel like Mon-El being a Daxamite is supposed to show that he is mostly similar to her, more similar than most of the people around her. While Buffy being a Slayer, yes there were some elements that she is different from humans, but to me it felt like there was a big distinction between her and vampires as well. She also spent most of her career fighting vampires, while Kara spends a comparatively little time fighting Daxamites, Mon-El doesn’t really have an “Angelus” equivalent, Angel not really having “evil parents” that fault can be distributed to, while at the same time there being no equivalent to the no soul concept that on one hand can be used to excuse bad actions and that on the other hand makes Angel official different from his vampire peers (ie Mon-El is different from other Daxamites is a normal, coming out of himself kind of way, and while the show never goes into it, it’s not impossible that there are other good or grey Daxamites, they aren’t like inherently evil on account of no souls). Buffy might have played with the idea that Buffy comes to a point where she relates more to vampires (especially after she comes back fro mthe dead) than normal humans, that her life experiences put her further and further away from normal humans, but I still think the gulf between her and vampires was bigger or at least equal sizes compared to the witches, demons, keys she ended up hanging around with. By comparison, Mon-El was introduced specifically on the concept of how his background made them have shared history. 
I think for all the flaws that s3 had, it felt like it spent a considerable amount of time establishing that Karamel work well together and that they now have a lot of additional things in common as heroes. Something that I think Buffy never (sadly) really went into even after Angel became a hero in his own right. I wasn’t the biggest Buffy and Angel shipper, but I always felt how that might have been lost potential, that there was never a more mature settled version of themselves meeting up, “talking shop”, hero to hero over a longer period of time and things like that. 
And of course various smaller things like Karamel’s pre-couple-dom dynamics being very different from Bangel’s pre-couple-dom dynamics. 
While Kara finding out that Mon-El is “The prince!!!!” after she starts dating him could be seen as similar-ish to the Angelus twist, it still feels pretty different. After all it’s not their couple-dom that causes Mon-El to be the prince or switch back to being the prince, Mon-El doesn’t go an any evil rampages or falls back into prince-like behavior at any point. 
But yes, the emotional and mood parallels particularly around Buffy’s sacrifice and grieving period are really strong, even if the details were quite different. 
So after doing a rewatch of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Supergirl, I've come to realize that Karamel is very similar to Bangel. Starcrossed lovers (Vampire/Slayer & Daxam/Krypton), male leads start out lost without a purpose, meet a girl they are inspired by to become better people/heroes. They are torn apart (Hell and Space), they return but the lovers have obstacles (curse and wife) and just when things might be looking up for the ship they leave to be heroes in a place that needs them more.
omg yes there’s so many parallels!!! especially in season three, buffy dreams of angel in the same way kara does of mon-el and the fact the season ends with both ships parting ways. hopefully karamel gets a happier ending though! 
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