#but also my bond is aroace but ALSO... that may be going a step further into the land of headcanons but ALSO ALSO

[variousqueerthings]

characters that fit under the jessica rabbit paradigm off the top of my head (note these are not necessarily asexual, but if you know me, you know I read several of them as that)

slight amendment here then also is that there's a scale of how much of this occurs in original texts versus later adaptations of those texts. for example in the original scandal of bohemia, irene adler is a very different character to who she becomes later on, so her first appearance is not a case of jessica rabbit, however in interaction with later appearances -- most egregiously in sherlock -- she becomes jessica rabbit on a meta scale (the same can be said for lucy westenra or james kirk)

jessica rabbit, obviously

the doctor (mostly ten -- eleven too, but more in specific character interactions) (doctor who)

seven of nine (voyager)

james t kirk (star trek the original series)

lucy westenra (dracula)

irene adler (sherlock holmes)

(partner suggestion:) thirteen (house)

ethan hunt (mission impossible)

actually the jessica rabbit paradigm is one I'm going to take onboard more in regards to characters: "does this character actually fuck, or do other characters just want to fuck them?"

otherwise known as the "I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way" dichotomy

obviously first coined by all those clever people who dubbed jessica rabbit an ace icon, and is applicable to other characters who are considered sexy by others, but which doesn't reflect their own canon attitude towards sexuality. this often including the writers and audiences of the text, who likewise project an allosexuality into a context in which it doesn't necessarily exist, based on the perceived attractiveness of the character and how other characters react to that perceived attractiveness

[sepublic]

Ideas for a Blight Twins Episode

          Continuing off of some ideas from a previous ask;

           Jerbo and Edric isn’t a very popular ship (not disliked, just not widespread), and I know there’s no canon basis whatsoever for Vinira, alas... But I really do like the idea of Edric learning to be his own person, apart from Emira, WITHOUT necessarily finding this through romantic love? It’d be a way of showing that other forms of love are perfectly valid… And it kind of reminds of some of those aroace headcanons I saw for Ed, a while back!

           Maybe it could even tie into his insecurity of not wanting to be alone… Thinking that because he’s aroace, he’s somehow unlovable, and incapable of feeling loved; And his clinginess is a desperate way to avert this view of himself and his identity! So having Edric find meaning and identity by hanging out with, say, Lilith, Luz, and King… I think it’d be a great way for him to learn that not only is romance not required to ‘be your own person’, that you’re not somehow less grown up for not being in love… It’d also make him finally getting a ‘pet’ for himself more meaningful, too!

           (And I see Edric as a kid at heart who never really got to be himself and had to grow up fast, and even as a rebel he still doesn’t let himself relax.)

           And Edric is able to find solace in multiple different relationships at once, instead of clinging extremely to the one he has with Emira… Relationships with different meanings, with Lilith being a surrogate mother, Luz being a regular friend/sister-in-law, and King… Well, I’m not sure WHAT King is, a little brother? Regardless, it’d really expand Edric’s horizons and allow him to experience ‘love’ in a different way that isn’t necessarily related to just being a blood sibling… Which could alleviate his concerns about never having a bond as close as his with Emira.

           THAT could then tie to Edric realizing and understanding Emira’s desire to be her own person more… As for Emira and any interactions with Viney, she might simply recognize how Viney and the other Detention Kids found solace through solidarity and shared similarities, and interactions; But still manage to be their own people! Though, they aren’t siblings, so there might be more of a desire to meet someone who can make it clear to Em that, no, you aren’t going to lose your identity by being close with your sibling…. Again, this ties back to my idea of Eda being a good mentor to Emira as well.

          At the very least, being around Viney, Jerbo, and Edric, who are understandably more sensitive, could lead Emira to being a lot more mindful and understanding of how others feel, and not necessarily steamrolling over that like her mother Odalia would… THAT could translate to her paying attention to Edric’s concerns and at least respecting them, instead of just casually throwing them to the side; Even if she still disagrees, at least she considered his side of the story first!

           Emira is someone who got defensive, in her attempts to be ‘herself’, by feeling like she had to push Edric away and become closed-off… When Edric suggests discussing their worst fears, Emira looks away as she says something that shuts him down- Even if it WAS likely honest, she low-key discouraged any further openness between the two at that point. And while it’s important for Emira to be her own person… Perhaps by opening up to Viney and the others, she could realize she’s still her own person, and better able to appreciate that- Especially since Emira opening up allows herself to be, well, herself around Viney, instead of just the confident mask she’s put up as a charming Blight!

           And because the twins are more honest and open with each other… It could lead to them being even closer, as again- They no longer fear having to hide or suppress parts of themselves, in fear of jeopardizing their conformity (which they mistake as synonymous with their bond), and in turn, they can enjoy one another while being happier individuals… And NOT worry about losing themselves in the process, because they know who they are, they know the other twin respects that, and they have other connections as well!

           …Legit, I have to wonder how Amity would react to all of this. If she may feel obligated to step in, or just stand back and let the Twins figure themselves out… Obviously she’d CARE for the two and be concerned. But at the same time, they ARE closer to one another than Amity… And I can see Amity being afraid of either twin singling her out as a new sibling-bond to form in the absence of their other one, for Emira to get away from Edric’s in her case, and Edric to replace the one he can’t back with Emira. Maybe it could lead to either twin trying to be more appealing to Amity, being less themselves to get her approval; And Amity, who initially may find it amusing, quickly shuts them down because she sees herself in them… And she does NOT want to make others feel obligated to change themselves for her approval, because they feel like they have nobody else!

           Which, that’d likely lead to Amity either participating in encouraging either sibling to mature, to grow… But given how she’s got her own issues, more than likely she’d recognize that it’d be mutually health for them both to split off for now. At the very least, she doesn’t want to risk taking advantage of Emira or Edric… And either twin might feel disgruntled at Amity, but then remember they were also cruel to her in the past ‘for her own good’, but on the other hand, THAT hadn’t been for her own good after all- So who was to say that Amity was correct, pushing away the other twin and not accepting their friendship (laced with dependency) ‘for their own good’?

           Regardless- It’d probably make Amity feel worse if one twin, or both, began to depend on her. She already feels like she has to conform to what her parents expect of her, what Boscha and the others expect of her as the top student… So it’d just put more pressure on Amity to take care of others, VS herself; Especially since she admittedly is not responsible for Emira and Edric’s identity issues this time, unlike with Willow. Plus, she may not be in the right mindset to help them either, as she’s still figuring herself out with Luz…

           Not to mention, Emira and Edric may or may not have reservations about having to depend on their own little sister for help; And they might be too aghast at forcing Amity to take care of the other. Maybe they wouldn’t want to keep bothering her after everything else, after seeing how much they already hurt Amity, who tried to be both like AND unlike them, paradoxically, at the same time (tried to have the same talent but not be a rebel). There might be the insecurity from Ed and Em both that as lonely individual who barely have their own identity, they might just screw over Amity further… Amidst some pride and shame at being seen like in front of their little sister.

           Though, I can ALSO imagine a hilarious scenario where Emira and Edric viciously compete for Amity’s affection, offering incentives and favors, maybe aggressively downplaying the other and holding a bit of a grudge… Until for her own health, Amity tells them to STOP, and leave her alone and figure their own issues out, on their own- Or with literally anyone else!

           I can totally see them going to Luz for help, though… Or again, maybe not- They might see Luz as too cool for them by this point, since Emira and Edric DO seem legitimately fond of Luz, as someone who is likely their only friend outside of the family, and the only person who actively reciprocated friendship with them and wanted to earn approval! Emira and Edric might feel obligated to still be those too-cool-for-school twins, so they may avoid telling Luz about their own problems to ‘live up to her expectations’, afraid Luz would no longer like them as much for being so ‘pathetic’… When in reality, Luz likes the twins as whoever they are, whoever they choose to be! She’s interested in getting to knowthem, whether or not that identity matches the façade the Twins have put up or not; It makes no difference to her.

           Still, I can see Emira and Edric trying to start ‘fresh’ with a total stranger… But as I said before, Edric isn’t identical to Emira and vice-versa. So ultimately, while I think Emira would have more of those reservations about opening up to Luz, as I mentioned earlier; Edric is someone who’d just want companionship, and thus be more liable to others’ opinions for approval. In this scenario, this could be good for him, as then Edric would be more receptive to genuine, positive feedback from Luz… as well as Lilith, etc.

           Like, I’m just imagining a hypothetical episode of the Blight Twins doing some soul-searching, beginning with the separation and following Emira and HER misadventures with Viney… Emira assumes it’ll be oh-so-easy, that she can rely on that charm and confidence and just that, no being open or honest and vulnerable… Which then leads into that fan concept of Emira trying to connect with Viney, but because Em refuses to be up-front about her feelings because she thinks she has to be ‘cool’ to get affection from a stranger, Viney just thinks the girl is out to murder her!

          Emira gets more and more frustrated, ends up accidentally tormenting Viney while Jerbo and Barcus are forced to defend her… And eventually Luz or somebody else, maybe Willow, just throws in their two cents and tells Emira to be straight-forward; Exactly like that ‘Stop lying, stop manipulating, just be nicer’ meme, and Emira is just utterly lost and baffled; But she finally obliges and it works out! And after experiencing happy, formulating relationships, Emira appreciates Edric’s concerns more, and then wonders what happened to him and how he’s doing…?

          And then once THAT ends, we immediately cut to see what Edric was doing; And how alone and dejected after she basically ‘ditched’ him, we have a humorous montage of Edric wandering Bonesborough like a traveling vagrant without a home, connections, or identity…Even though he’s not, but he’s being dramatic! And as he sits by himself alone, he ends up picking up a pet or two that he befriends, because it just strolls up to him and sits down besides Edric in mutual solidarity, as he starts talking to it… Openly appreciating the company, and then maybe projecting some of his own insecurities regarding him and Emira.

          Then maybe the ‘pet’ leaves him by that point, and Edric starts crying out in abandonment! A mean yet hilarious wake-up moment, perhaps alluding to Edric pushing people away for being too clingy and projecting his needs onto them. Maybe Ed DOES find a proper pet, then or later…! Either way, his wandering leads him to the Owl House- Either he sees Eda and the others selling stuff and follows them, he just ends up there on his own, or he deliberates on his other connections, dismissing going to Mittens as ‘too desperate’, even for him; And then he brightens up and remembers Luz, remembers how she always makes people happy, including Mittens of all people! If Luz can help Amity, she can help Edric… And somewhere along the way, Edric is surprised to find himself valuing an unexpected bond with Lilith, and maybe the other Owl House residents as well!

           Certainly not Hooty, though, even if him and Edric may share issues of being ‘desperate’ for companionship. Hooty is a freaking war criminal. Actually… perhaps like Eda in Episode 9, talking to Hooty will help Edric realize where he messed up, and/or come to an epiphany of what he might become, or do to others! In turn, he appreciates Emira’s decision more… Maybe Ed bolts off, understanding how Emira may have viewed him, but he also still needs to figure out how to value himself, and Emira’s desires VS Emira just not wanting to be with someone so ‘desperate’, as it leads to Edric thinking he needs to be more confident just to win back his sister. Either way, Hooty is left in the dust mid-sentence, RIP. Maybe Edric even narrates his realization aloud, ending on him declaring that he doesn’t want to be like Hooty, right to Hooty’s accursed face!

           As Edric gets along with everyone, maybe he picks up a pet, possibly with Viney’s help… And he learns to respect wild animals as their own creatures with their own lives, and not just toys for him to kidnap and take into his own possession! Edric respects the autonomy of these animals, that they don’t owe him anything and he can’t just force a bond… And like with Emira, he better understands how his sibling felt!

          The two meet again, talk awkwardly, mention to their individual journeys in passing, possibly with the others watching- And they have a tearful reunion hug! Maybe Amity even joins in, because why not- She’s happy to see her older siblings healing like Luz did for her, and this could make all three Blight kids better with one another. Of course, Ed and Em ‘ruin’ the moment by teasing Amity but messing with her, but in the end everybody is happy, and Luz does that ugly-crying face from the end of Understanding Willow, reveling in and appreciating wholesomeness.

[sableaire]

hello! this might be a little odd to ask since I don't think you've ever talked about this publicly, but I really value your opinion and think you are super well-read so I wondered what your thoughts were on this!!! My gf recently got me into kuroshitsuji, and I was wondering if you had any thoughts on sebaciel, as a psychological concept? (I really liked your ks analysis!!! also I don't want you to think I'm asking for an actual analysis or anything I was just curious!!!)

Oh dear, I haven’t read Kuroshitsuji in years. I think I stopped some point near the end of the boarding school arc. Thank you for your kind words, by the way - true or not, I’m glad that is the impression I give off, ahaha.

Just on a surface level, I think the Kuroshitsuji animes were the ones that really leaned into the fanservice. There may have been some scenes in the manga that are evading my memory, but there’s no denying that the anime hinted at it far more heavily. As such, I feel that fans who only watched the anime - or watched the anime first - are more likely to end up shipping SebaCiel. However, I pretty much reject the first two anime and haven’t seen the Book of Circus, so my answer will have to focus on the manga.

Regardless, I know this is a touchy subject for a lot of people, fans and non-fans alike, so my response is below the cut: 

My thoughts on the concept of SebaCiel, hm… I can see where people might be getting it, I think, but I don’t necessarily understand it. When I read the manga when I was a teenager, I didn’t realize that people shipped the two characters romantically/sexually. It just didn’t occur to me. 

So personally, when I read Kuroshitsuji, I saw no romantic or sexual chemistry there (and this isn’t even mentioning the fact that Ciel Phantomhive as written is a literal child, aha;;). What I saw in Kuroshitsuji and what appealed to me as a reader was a fascinating power dynamic, wrapped up in a weird business arrangement, and I think there-in lies the issue.

Perhaps it’s just because I’m aroace, but I personally feel that a lot of readers fail to acknowledge that there can be an emotional/mental intimacy in a relationship without romance. Similarly, there is a failure to acknowledge that there can be a power dynamic or obsession without sexual undertones.

From my limited knowledge of the SebaCiel fandom, it seems to me that the ship is built more upon sexual content rather than romantic fluff, which plays into my point. I believe that a lot of people end up shipping SebaCiel because of the underlying power dynamic between the two throughout the entirety of the manga, which many readers automatically associate with sexual themes.

I cannot speak for the intention of the author as to whether Kuroshitsuji is meant to encourage shipping Sebastian and Ciel or not. I do believe she started as a BL author, which could mean that any homoerotic undertones (should they be present; I don’t personally remember any, it’s been a while) are intentional. It could also just mean that she’s so used to drawing them that she doesn’t know how to draw pretty scenes without them, ahaha.

However, from a storytelling perspective myself, I don’t see any grounds for a romantic or sexual relationship between the two. Ciel is wholly focused on his revenge, fully intending to die - a little too busy for romance, and he holds his responsibilities as a noble to a certain esteem, which means that were he not to die, he would probably fully intend to marry his fiancee Elizabeth, without affair.

As for the demon himself, my interpretation at the time of reading - which, again, it’s been years - was that what Sebastian got out of this relationship was Ciel’s own corruption of self. Yeah, he likes the corruption of an innocent soul or whatnot, but what he got out of their weird pact was a front-row seat to Ciel’s self-destructive journey. He is basically ensuring that his favorite cake is baking properly, and his whole interest in Ciel is because Ciel himself is the one corrupting his own soul, without Sebastian’s direct involvement or encouragement.

Since that’s Sebastian’s role in all this, I don’t see it as a strong possibility that he would, I don’t know, seducing Ciel for laughs as a viable option, and if he attempted, I imagine Ciel would firmly shut it down, and if Ciel expresses no interest, Sebastian wouldn’t waste the effort on trying.

Further, I cannot actually imagine Sebastian actually harboring any affection for Ciel. He is a demon, fundamentally different from a human. What he is there for is the promise of one of the best soul meals of his life - he cares for Ciel to the extent I might care for a Michelin star Asian-style Strawberry Shortcake: I’m going to watch the chef, sit in front of the oven and stare at it while it is cooking, make sure it’s decorated to my liking, and I am going to kill anyone who tries to prevent me from eating the whole thing after I waited so long. Heck, I’ll probably kill anyone who even smears the icing. 

However, even without a sexual or romantic component, the two characters do still undeniably have both a power dynamic and a codependence. They both are incredibly prideful, and they are both bonded together despite their personal animosity for a perceived mutually beneficial outcome. Ciel holds power of Sebastian in all the public ways, as the Lord to demon’s Butler, but Ciel is also helplessly reliant on Sebastian when it comes to all the… supernatural stuff… and also not-so-supernatural stuff…

And personally, I love that. I love the stories where one character has all the cards and the other has to swallow their pride to get what they want, and I love stories about one-up-manship, and I love stories about people being forced to rely on one another. However, those dynamics do not have to be sexual, and they do not have to be romantic. Also, possessive behavior does not have to mean romantic/sexual obsession, especially when one character is technically a tool (a means to an end) and the other is literally a food source. I am pretty darn possessive of my laptop computer, and I would be pretty damn possessive over my Michelin-star strawberry shortcake. 

I didn’t actually intend on this being such an effective analogy, but now I am super protective and territorial about this imaginary strawberry shortcake because by god, it has been years since I had a good one.

Still, my theory is that to a lot of people, when presented with a power dynamic in fiction, many readers immediately see a sexual appeal to it in a Dom/sub-esque fashion, and when presented with seeming emotional intimacy, they immediately see romantic potential. And though the author/artist may throw in fanservice, that’s just that - service. It doesn’t discourage the shippers, for sure, but it’s not necessarily support for it either.

Basically, due to modern culture, committed and or intimate and or passionate and or intense relationships in fiction are often perceived to be romantic and or sexual in nature when they do not have to be. Platonic relationships are underrated. Non-sexual hatred and obsession is underrated. 

It could also just be that people are interpreting a business-arrangement-turned-emotionally-invested-relationship narrative as a platonic-relationship-turned-romantic one. I know a lot of people who think of platonic relationships as equivalent to mere acquaintanceship, and there-in might lie the issue. They may fail to perceive Ciel and Sebastian’s escalating emotional involvement (if there was any, I can’t remember) as a step up from a professional relationship. They may instead perceive it as a step up from a platonic one.

Also, Kuroshitsuji is one of those mangas a lot of people discover while young, so that may factor into the enthusiastic fandom and the eagerness for romance, considering most tween/young teen books angling for girls are romantic in nature and that is how many girls are used to relating to their fiction.

Sorry if this wasn’t the kind of answer you meant, and again, it has been years since I properly read the manga. I heard the two-Ciel theory’s been proven true? Fascinating.

[autistic-puffin]

#okay look i was THIS close to putting james bond on this list BUT#it depends on the bond iteration in question and even from film to film#but also my bond is aroace but ALSO... that may be going a step further into the land of headcanons but ALSO ALSO#james bond canonically increasingly is a character without agency or selfhood especially in the daniel craig era#he is literally a tool which makes all of his *waves hands* stuff very interesting to look at through that lens#and one of those tools is sex to the point that it's just a go-to thing to do in many situations#and also interacts fascinatingly with the fact that the creators/perceived desired audience#want to see that character have sex and be like woo look at that manly dude having sex with all those hot babes#even if those situations are invariably tinged with all kinds of Baggage and Context#but THEN there's the incredible discomfort with how young all the women are almost all the time + the history of jb as lbr a rapist in text#so the point being... jb is his own category#but does he Actually fuck (consensually) within and without the text#ethan hunt -- like all spies post-bond -- inherits this baggage but he's not an asshole crucially @variousqueerthings

actually the jessica rabbit paradigm is one I'm going to take onboard more in regards to characters: "does this character actually fuck, or do other characters just want to fuck them?"

otherwise known as the "I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way" dichotomy

obviously first coined by all those clever people who dubbed jessica rabbit an ace icon, and is applicable to other characters who are considered sexy by others, but which doesn't reflect their own canon attitude towards sexuality. this often including the writers and audiences of the text, who likewise project an allosexuality into a context in which it doesn't necessarily exist, based on the perceived attractiveness of the character and how other characters react to that perceived attractiveness