#but also for characters legitimately just having interesting fashion and unique dressing and gender not being a major factor

[floorpancakes]

idk how to put this but when people put canonically male characters in cute outfits it feels like there's a difference in enjoyment out of it i get depending on whether they're being put in the outfit for novelty reasons or whether it's done creatively because the op has an interest in or actually likes the clothes outside of the novelty???

this isn't shitting on either mind you I LOVE both. and as a gender roles are dumb believer who loves fashion its something i actively seek out regardless but like i noticed it when I was buying merch of characters wearing cute maid bunny nurse outfits and all I kept thinking was 'these are so well designed...they're tailored so well to the characters...fashion is so cool...'

i genuinely don't know how to put it but i like when there's a feeling that exists outside 'isnt it funny/novel that this guy has a dress on' even though that can have charms too . it's not like either option is bad per se but i like when these things are treated as normal and not weird at all, exaggerated to the point of being freaky or invested further in the fashion than just being generic maid dress or sexy stock outfit (but I like that too!!! I love sexy stock outfits!!! I'm a gooner!! I can't seem to articulate this vibe very well I'm sorry!!)

i guess its like. on a sliding scale from 'boy character wears generic maid outfit and is rly annoyed and upset about it because dear audience aren't guys in girl clothes sooo funny' (mild enjoyment at best as a concept, unless it's like something they grow from or the outfit or art is cute lol) to 'gender stupid fashion is forever' (cheering and whooping)

[thecoolerliauditore]

third time getting this ask deleted, i don't think the universe wants my thoughts on fem grian out there :(

i don't even actually have any problem with this interpretation. it's just both very interesting and silly to me. there is a non-insignificant amount of fanwork that emphasizes grian as having a small, thin waist and general petite frame. nothing wrong with that, but deeply amusing as someone who generally doesn't see the c!lifers' human builds as significantly different from their irl counterparts. starting to suspect people don't share my love for middle-aged guys who look like middle-aged guys... maybe i watch too much british comedy.

ultimately i do agree that it's due to grian being more uke-viable than the other two in mumscarian. which is interesting, because you could argue that mumbo shares a lot of the same "effeminate" traits (higher-pitched voice, not a hulking brute force, sneaky and conniving, young, skinny?) which just proves the power of the Guy with Suit and Moustache branding. exceptions to this are when mumbo gets to have a nice long dress, but i still think the way grian gets feminized is different to that.

something else i find interesting is that grian's deception and manipulation (and power?) is sometimes the sole reason for his feminization getting pushed from generic twink to femboy/literal woman. which is something that i don't think i can do justice pontificating about. i mean this less in a "that's kind of misogynistic way" (well, sort of) and more like, ok what kind of psychosexual game of telephone is happening here. martyn or scott don't really get this treatment, despite (imo) both being valid contenders for evil womanification.

does any of this matter? absolutely not. men shipped in yaoi pairs will get interestingly gendered one way or another. it just so happens that a very specific domino effect lead to grian getting hit with the twinkification beam at a disproportional rate to the others. the only factor that is unique to grian in getting twinkified and feminized is the 3px skin. all others are shared (gremlin-ness, shortness, voice, cuteness, youth, being evil?, sneaky, manipulative) ergo it really is the 3px skin difference. thank you for your time.

also sorry if it seemed like i was assuming you were a grian fan, i legitimately wasn't lol i just sent it to you because of aforementioned gender mentions and you general Goodness in talking about fandom meta.

last thing i'll say is i mournfully agree with the menswear section. i do wish that we could combat more against the "men's fashion/design is boring" sentiment in general fandom. character involving menswear is such an untapped treasure trove that it's baffling to me. alas.

oh please don't worry I was just trying to clarify I wasn't knowledgeable on grian, I love discussions like this! I just didn't want to like. yap a whole bunch and then hit you with the "ok so I don't actually watch Grian all that much" (like I genuinely had completely forgotten about Mother Spore)

"psychosexual game of telephone" is very real and I think I'm going to adopt that into my vocabulary from now on. Scott's name being here is interesting because I actively try not to bring him up in every discussion nowadays, but I do think he is also feminized in fanon but in a way very different to Grian.

My Scott design at least I think you could make that argument for since I based alot of him off of my favourite pretty boys/bishounen, with the eyelashes visible and whatnot, but I tried to at least make it somewhat clear that he is a Man. He even kind of got hit with the detwinkification ray the more I drew him.

And idk fanon Scott is like. It's own brand of fascinating to me because I used to see a lot of people claim he was a "fem gay man" and I was like???????? is he???????????? I suppose his masculinity is a very queer brand of masculinity but it still very much reads as masculinity to me. Very "cis gay man" as he says himself. When I see the words "fem gay man" I am not imagining Scott Smajor, that much is for sure.

There's also just not that many Scott artists relative to the rest of the characters but what art I do see of him tends to lean either anime twink. Weight and body type is also a factor here I think is worth exploring but aughhhh shutting up about Scott. Point is I do think he gets his fair share of feminization but it's complicated with him cus you have to factor in him being The Gay One (and the associations people have with that) and his whole persona being very Cute 🌺

But yes yes anyway I do think Mumbo's moustache does him wonders, as does the CC's reputation for being a giant.

And while none of this Really matters I also don't think any of our lives Really matter and I think these trends are interesting so. We may as well have fun studying them. It's times like these where I wish I could have the brazen-ness to just yoink people's art and put them next to their takes about the character to really, really get in there but I'd feel rude 😔

FTR re the whole nothing wrong with it thing I agree! And you can look at this silly thing I drew for April Fools for my opinion on fanon designs and body types. I am a massive hypocrite in a lot of ways and I think sometimes you do just gotta break down the biases that make you view a certain set of traits a certain way and go. Wow okay that's interesting. and just kinda leave.

My Pearl design for example has some misogynistic implications -- hell, all of my designs for the women lifers are on the shorter side. My Pearl is shorter than my Bdubs and Joel who have entire gags surrounding them about being short! CC Pearl is very much not cute moe anime girl, I turned her character into cute moe anime girl. And I'd do it any day. Minus one point for me in the feminism and body positivity categories 😔 and I'd do it again.

It's whatever man. Humans have biases built on millions of years of history and people also have their own individual beliefs and preferences influenced by that history. and I think seeing that show through people's minecraft youtuber designs like little bits and pieces of worldviews is REALLY COOL. and while I'm also a biased human being who has my tastes I genuinely do think this is really fascinating.

Ok sorry this really got away from me can you tell I like this topic lmao. I just think it's really cool when you get unlimited perspectives on a certain set of traits applied onto a very interpretable design like a minecraft skin

Fist bump on the menswear btw. Makes me wanna draw that self-indulgent idea I had awhile back where I just use the lifers as my fashion dolls. Idk I just think Etho would kill in some Japanese techwear