#but also because it's totally in character for him to own one.

[rotationalsymmetry]

I do think the "realistically, the gaang must have already been killing people" thing is being genre-oblivious. This is a children's cartoon show, and you gotta roll with the conventions of children's media. For the most part, unambiguous death doesn't happen. When Katara freezes people in ice, they're fine, just immobilized, even though it's *ice*. When Fire Nation soldiers get dumped into the ocean, we see them at least temporarily treading water, which allows for the possibility of an off-screen rescue. When an Earth Kingdom general is trying to convince Aang to join the war, we see *injured* Earth Kingdom soldiers, with no coffins or anything. An implausibly large number of people are captured rather than killed by the Fire Nation -- we don't know of one character on the heroes' side who died on the Day of Black Sun even though they lost, it's not that big a stretch to imagine that worked both ways.

Even Yue doesn't really die, she turns into the moon.

And you can't make an argument that the show is treating ordinary characters like red shirts while giving the leaders "real person" status, because it doesn't! The show humanizes minor characters and people who don't have much in the way of power at every turn. There's Fire Nation soldiers and guards and students with individual personalities. Ordinary people in the Earth Kingdom have their own struggles and losses and moments of happiness. In the Avatar Day episode, Aang makes friends with the other people in jail and in the Boiling Rock episode the heroes work with other prisoners -- people with their own priorities whose crimes are left ambiguous -- to escape. There's no stormtroopers in this show, no faceless mooks. Everyone's a person.

And the show spent INCREDIBLE amounts of time on showing Zuko's redemption arc. So much that I think some people think of him as just being ontologically on the heroes' side from the beginning. The show put so much effort into humanizing and redeeming Zuko to convey that other people in the Fire Nation have that potential, including his father, who was a teenager once too. (Was a child once. Aang sees a picture of Ozai as a child.) Picture a Zuko who grew to adulthood as the prince of the Fire Nation, surrounded by people who were sure that the Fire Nation's imperialism was right and correct, and never directly interacting with any people the Fire Nation harmed. Are you sure Zuko couldn't have turned into someone like Ozai under different circumstances?

And it's not rushed. It's set up in The Southern Raiders, if not earlier. It's a theme over multiple episodes; the method is introduced late but the conflict is not, and the method is not the important thing. (Steven Universe was very much rushed, unfortunately, due to executive meddling. And also. If you're going to be mad at the show, you have to be mad at it starting with the Pink Diamond reveal, and that part wasn't rushed, that part came off perfectly.)

(It's also thematically consistent with, eg, Paku getting in the way of Katara learning water bending at first but being a temporary adversary, not a permanent one, or the guy Yue was engaged to being a total jerk, and Jet's story and Hama's. Sometimes people are complicated, sometimes people have conflict with people basically on their side, because whatever side of a conflict people are on, they are still people. With positive qualities and flaws. On whichever side. This is the core thematic message of the show, for crying out loud. Objecting to that means you wanted a completely different show.)

Sometimes I think about how and why some people had such a *bad* reaction to the end of Steven Universe, specifically in regards to the Diamonds living.

Even though they no longer are causing harm to others and are able to actually undo some of their previous harm by living, some folks reacted as though this ending was somehow morally suspect. Morally bankrupt, even.

And I think it might be because so many of us were raised on a very specific kind of kids media trope:

They all fall to their deaths.

Disney loves chucking their bad guys off cliffs. And it makes sense- in a moral framework where villains *must* be punished (regardless of whether their death will actually prevent further harm or not), but killing of any kind is morally bad for the hero, the narrative must find a way to kill the villain without the protagonists doing a murder.

It's a moral assumption that a person can *deserve* to die, that it is cosmically just for them to die, that them dying is evidence that the story itself is morally good and correct. Scar *deserves* to die, but it would be bad for Simba to kill him. So....cliff. (edit: yes, cliff then hyenas. But cliff first. Lol.)

Steven Universe, whatever else it's faults, took a step back and said "but if killing people is bad, then people dying is bad", and instead of dropping White Diamond off a cliff, asked "what would actual *restorative*, not punitive, justice look like? What would actual reparations mean here? If the goal is to heal, not just to punish, how do we handle those who have done harm?" And then did that.

Which I think is interesting, and that there was pushback against it is interesting.

It also reminds me of the folks who get very weird about Aang not killing Ozai at the end of Avatar. And like, Ozai still gets chucked in prison, so it doesn't even push back on our cultural ideas of punitive justice *that much.* and still, I've seen people get real mad that the child monk who is the last survivor of a genocide that wiped out his entire pacifist culture didn't do a murder.

[avelera]

Thinking about how one of Mel's flaws as a character, as I see it, is that she's fixated on being the power behind the throne, rather than the power itself, despite already having all the ability she needs to be an effective and incisive ruler.

We first see this characteristic of Mel's when she's a child, picturing the sort of hand-picked regent she would select to be her family's puppet.

But Ambessa points out even back then that there's no reason Mel couldn't rule directly. This I imagine is part of the whole fox vs. wolf theme that is a source of tension between them.

In Mel's defense, there's plenty of good reasons to be the power behind the throne. It gives you a lot more deniability and an easy escape-hatch if something goes wrong. You can always throw the puppet to the wolves and start fresh. But it demonstrates a lack of commitment to always be hedging like that and it also lose you a certain amount of direct control. After all, the puppet can always grow teeth.

I think about this in relation to Jayce's Man of Progress image and how he needed to be the face of Hextech (and eventually a Councilor). Because why did he need to be the face of Hextech? Why couldn't Mel do it?

Mel was one of their first believers. She enabled their creation on the night of its inception. Why couldn't she be a partner in Hextech from the beginning, handling the public-facing side from the start? Or taken over from Jayce once it went from prototype to proven quantity?

I'd argue that if she had, a lot of the tragedies that befall Mel later would have been averted.

First of all, it's not as if there's an air-gap between the State and Hextech. There'd be no appearance of impropriety if Mel championed Hextech from the point where the Hexgates open. The Hexgates and Piltover had become synonymous by that point, there's no reason she couldn't continue to advocate and get funding for Hextech even as a Councilor. She had a skill for it, and the knowledge, and connections.

She could have allowed Jayce to remain in the lab, working on new innovations, occasionally coming out to offer the more scientific explanations as needed. But she didn't, why? (Doylist, obviously because we wouldn't have a story, etc. etc.)

I would argue it's part of the flaw or challenge she's facing in the story: she always wants to be the power behind the throne. So she helps elevate Jayce and supports his public persona. This persists until she sees an opportunity for an even bigger play by making Jayce a Councilor. Again, she sees a bright, charismatic, well-intentioned and easily-moldable person that she can work through to enact her own goals in Piltover and, because she is actually a good person, theirs too. She's not entirely self-serving and that's where she's different from Ambessa.

But this is where the problem of setting up a puppet sets in. Because Jayce has agency and he grows teeth and he pushes back on things Mel wouldn't want and does things she wouldn't advise with her superior political experience. Had she been the one in power instead of the power behind the throne, she could have avoided this, she could have molded the situation more specifically to her preferences, based on her superior knowledge. Jayce didn't want to be out in front of the crowd. He wanted to stay in the lab. Mel being the public face would have worked just fine for about 90% of the public appearances a representative of Hextech would need to make to the world. (I say this as someone who works as a public face in tech and has been a startup founder myself, such a role for Mel totally exists and often goes to someone who is a bigger name when the founders themselves are not charismatic or would simply prefer not to do all the wheeling and dealing.)

And this flaw loses her the relationship she could have had with Jayce, I'd argue. If she'd more directly worked alongside Jayce and Viktor, and taken over being the public face, she wouldn't have needed to manipulate Jayce or raise him to the Council, which were the dealbreakers that made him break up with her later.

Of course, they may not have had any reason to date in such a world but then, maybe they would have anyway as partners, now with a stronger foundation beneath them of working together, with both Jayce and Viktor relieved that the public, political side is being handled by a pro with a ton of resources (not that there wouldn't have been tension at all but certainly, this is a world in which I could see some flavor of MelJayVik happening harmoniously).

There's a Silicon Valley AU buried in all of this, free to a good home, but a world where Mel came on as a full partner early on would certainly be fascinating.

[rootspiral]

Agatha All Along deep dive: episode 9 part 4

(Wandavision entries: [1][2][3])

(AAA entries: ep1 [1][2][3][4] ep2 [1][2][3][4] ep3 [1][2][3] ep4 [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][+1] ep5 [1][2][3][4][5] ep6 [1][2][3] ep7 [1][2][3][4][5][6] ep8 [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9] ep9 [1][2][3][4])

it's still agatha and her river

mama, I'm sorry I got upset. mama I'm sorry we're both starving tonight. I promise I'll do better tomorrow.

a six year old taking responsibility and apologizing for his mother's shortcomings.

agatha looks down at her precious little boy's pleading face

and she smiles at him, and nicky gives her a big relieved grin.

evanora is not stealing this moment. she did her worst to fuck with agatha's brain chemistry, but in one fundamental thing she failed: agatha is capable of loving her kid. despite all her other shortcomings, she will never blame nicky for her own faults.

she does a cute little dance for him, and this is what they do, isn't it? he's too small to explain his big feelings and she is too scared, and so they sing to each other and hope the love is understood anyway.

see how he touches the brooch? if only she could have loved nicky in vacuum, without any of the emotional baggage. but he is only the last link in a long chain of witches, pain and and tears and blood that made him what he is. agatha cannot escape her identity and legacy no matter how much she tries, and she couldn't protect nicky from it either.

the last time she sees nicky alive he's smiling adoringly at her. this is the boy she can't face in the afterlife, because her own guilt is so strong she's convinced he will hate her.

nicky dies peacefully in his mother's arms. his soul wakes up and sees rio waiting for him.

that some good cinema dear lord

rio waves at nicky. he doesn't know her (when who will return?) but he still trusts her implicity - she's been around him his whole short life, in the woods, in the water, in his lungs.

and - the bit that destroyed us all - she makes nicky go to agatha one last time. go kiss your mama goodbye.

light and dark, growth and decay, here and beyond.

remember when alice died and the camera turned upside down? ot stops halfway here. agatha has been affected so profoundly by nicky's death that she can never let herself go back to the land of the living, but she's also too scared to follow rio to the other side. she's stuck in the middle, consumed by the impossible dream of bringing nicky back, never allowing herself to find peace and companionship again. in love with death, but running away from it.

(people never seem to make crack and humor vids for episode 9, isn't that curious? when it's soooo fun and lighthearted!)

well ain't that just brutal

I have always known

This Road is cruel and wild

I bury my own heart

Here with you, my child

(I think those are lavender flowers? I'm not 100% sure)

coolcoolcoolcoolcool. that's fine. I'm absolutely fine.

BARRIERS UP right away. even if she looks like a mess. especially because she looks like a mess. she's not showing weakness in front of anyone, she's protecting her grief like a jealous goblin, and since she cannot run, she straightens her dress and gets ready to fight. the option to ask for help and comfort doesn't even cross her mind.

her eyes still full of tears / agatha gets another wonderful, awful idea.

we've seen this so many times, haven't we? the real agatha disappears behind the character she plays. the agatha we've seen from the very start, since the moment she walked into wanda's living room, has been a lie. very few people have ever seen a hint of the poor bruised heart she hides inside, and only to rio and (to some extent) nicky she has ever opened up.

how can someone go from total heartbreak to planning murder in the span of two minutes? well, you can if you are agatha harkness and have never learned one healthy coping mechanism in your life. and I'm sure she's already rationalizing it as something like "if I get powerful enough I can bring nicky back." but the truth is, she just wants to get drunk on magic and murder and stop feeling so horrible. she's running away, like usual. she's planning to kill witches in front of the grave of the very kid who begged her not to, and she's using his song to do it. as if that's not gonna haunt her or anything.

(it really gets me how agatha's smiles are so different from kathryn's. agatha never smiles with her eyes, except when she's with nicky.)

agatha's diabolical scam is so stupid if you think about, definitely worthy of the clown she has become. just pretend the Road didn't open and then annoy people into attacking you! better than using a literal child as bait, I guess.

here she absorbs a yellow coven, and yep, it does look like covens are all supposed to be the same color?

the bodies from the agnes of westview opening.

orange coven in the late 1800s. I really like that dress and hat on her

blue coven in the 1920s, and another cunty outfit

I know you guys like the 90s look, but it makes me laugh how hard she was trying for that Craft vibe. and we don't see the beams color here.

and finally, our girls. (I miss you all so muchhhhh)

what do you know! looks like a door has appeared! (sharonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!)

from fuck has my karma caught up with me to well well well, looks like we have another little maximoff on our hands

and speaking of little maximoffs and giant assholes...

go to episode 9 part 5

[mio-nika]

I think the part we always forget about Phantom (from AA) is that he's a total loser. And I'm not even talking about "he fumbled original bombing so hard, he spent seven years trying to fix it, but somehow made even more mistakes in progress". Like a smallest snowball turned into an avalanche of stupidity. World worst spy.

But also he's character is so fucking silly??? He's very obviously American coded (well at least Bobby is). He's a mix between James Bond and Inspector Gadget. He has a watch that can hack things and has a grappling hook. He tried to leave court room multiple times using it by shooting upwards even tho the room has no roof (where are you shooting it, mate???). He almost escaped, but came back, because of the well timed objection. He presented his own lighter which can turn into a GUN as the evidence. And no one in fandom sphere can explain why he did that.

Like he's a total dumbass???

I know I'm The Person who tries to make him a deep and meaningful character. But like. I will not be surprised that him loosing his shoes. Was not an act. I honest to god think that he's dumb as bricks.

[rowie264]

Why Timebomb shouldn't exist in s2 (part 1 - Ekko)

Let's start by analyzing his character. Don't you think there's something wrong here, to put it mildly? Of course, I'm laughing at jokes about the fact that you can't call any character absolutely good in Arcane except for Ekko, but… Don't you think this is a problem? Ekko has no flaws at all. If he didn't have difficulties as the story progressed (and there aren't many), he would literally be Mary Sue.

And okay, even though I find characters without flaws completely unrealistic and boring, it's possible to work with this. Let Ekko be a good guy. Just give him a good conflict and it will be enough to make him interesting to watch.

But there are problems here too. What conflicts does Ekko have?

Chembarons. It's clear with Silco, he died in s1, and this conflict is half gone. But only half, because other chembarons want to take his place. The development of this topic could serve as a good disclosure of Ekko's character. His confrontation with shimmer and Silco in the hope of changing Zaun for the better with his defeat will endow him with flaw - naivety (this is just speculation, because we don't know if Ekko knew that eliminating Silco wouldn't have changed anything - we can only see that how he sighs at this information in s2 ep2). But making him naive is good, because it would give him an opportunity for growth and an additional character arc, because the question arises - what will he do? Fight against the "bad guys" as before or change his approach? Will he get his hands dirty or will he find a "better way"? Perhaps he will try to unite Zaun? Maybe he'll become a chembaron himself, but as a good chembaron? Well, we won't find out, because thanks to Caitlyn for doing all the dirty work - this conflict disappeared on its own.

The Tree. Ekko's personal arc in the s2, which is just drained down the toilet. And no "he ended up in another timeline and then there was a war" is not an excuse, because his entire motivation in s2 is based on this conflict. He starts his journey precisely because of the Tree, but they brushes it aside for the sake of fanservice and a more global plot. Lack of timing is not an excuse for the same reason - fanservice in another timeline is not needed for s2. Exploring Tree and firelights would give a lot of information about Ekko himself. How did he become a leader? Was there anyone who was against his leadership? What personal connections does he have with firelights (friends, mentors, etc)? One such small flashback could reveal his character much more than the entire ep7.

Piltover. Weeeeell, since we have been ignoring the topic of Piltover oppressing Zaun for decades, this conflict disappears by itself. We have more important things to do, like fighting an army of creepy robots and Arcane Jesus.

Jinx. Fucked up on all fronts. Cheap fanservice with alternative Powder instead of revealing his complicated relationship with our Powder/Jinx. I'll explain more later.

In total, we have: Ekko, a character who has not been fully revealed, who does not have depth like other characters (shown on the screen, rather than having to figure it out by ourselves) and whose conflicts either resolve themselves or are forgotten. It was more important for the creators to devote time to the fanservice than to reveal Ekko as an individual and close his personal arcs. Moving to another timeline cuts off the possibility of revealing his relationship with other characters besides Heimerdinger (yes, with Jinx too, but more on that later). But there's also a problem with Heimerdinger, because well, he's so small and fluffy and has a cool mustache, and that's probably why Ekko completely ignores the fact that Heimer was a councilor to the city who had been oppressing Zaun for decades (seriously, Ekko doesn't bring up this topic and has no complaints about Heimer, because creators deliberately omitted this conflict, forgetting that it is illogical for the character as Ekko).

Part 2 - Jinx Part 3 - Relationship

[anthurak]

So ever since Mastermind, I’ve been seeing the expected number of ‘What if Lucifer or Charlie was present at the trial?’ fics/headcanons positing that either of their presence would have had them speak out on Blitzo’s and/or Stolas’ behalf and led to the PERFECT ending where the evil schemes of Andy-the-not-actually-a-sister-fucker are foiled and both Blitzo and Stolas are acquitted and it’s all sunshine and rainbows and puppies for everyone (except those evil rich people (except the ones we like)). And like, that’s all well and good…

But let’s be real. Even with a deck not massively stacked against them, or even stacked in their favor, both Blitzo and/or Stolas could ABSOLUTELY still find a way to fuck things up for themselves. I mean we’re talking about one guy who opened his defense with “Those orphans were already sick!” and “But when is attempting a crime a crime?”, and the other guy for whom ‘throwing my life away in a big dramatic heroic sacrifice for the man I love’ was Plan A.

And I just think that sounds way more fun and interesting then Lucifer or Charlie being some author-insert to serve as a secret cheat-code for the Golden Happy Ending for the episode.

Sure, Lucifer or Charlie being present almost certainly means things would go better for Blitzo, Stolas and co. regardless, but again I feel like it’s just way more interesting and fun and honestly in-character for these two gay idiots to still find a way to fuck things up for themselves.

Like imagine if Lucifer wants to hear Blitzo out at the critical vote, not so much because he really gives a fuck, but more because he’s bored and is also just messing with Satan.

And throughout the rest of the trial Lucifer is mostly just dicking around being a bored little gremlin. With the his only real contribution being to veto outright executing Blitzo, and even then that’s only thanks to Blitzo mentioning that Loona is his daughter. Sure, he may barely give a fuck at this point, but having a man killed in front of his own daughter? That’s pretty fucked up, don’t you think?

Which probably leads to some petty bickering between Lucifer and Satan about why they can’t just send Loona out of the room and THEN kill Blitzo, which then probably escalates/tangents to some ‘petty, jilted ex’s’-esque arguing that may or may not have some of the other Sins piping in for shits and giggles that is really only stopped when Stolas bursts in with his big ‘dramatic, gay heroic sacrifice via song-number’ gambit.

And Lucifer is in fact totally okay with Stolas getting stripped of his power and position, because hey he did a whole song number for it, but he draws the line at Stolas getting separated from his daughter. Also Andrealphus doesn’t get to be regent of Stolas’s position because Lucifer doesn’t like him for extremely petty reasons.

Meanwhile, I feel like Charlie sitting in for her dad probably wouldn’t turn out much better.

Sure, Charlie would want to hear Blitzo out, and ABSOLUTELY give a fuck about his situation. But let’s not forget that this is BLITZO we’re talking about, and giving him a chance to talk is ALSO giving him a chance to dig himself into a deeper hole.

For example; what do think Charlie’s reaction is going to be to learning what Blitzo and co. were actually DOING with that grimoire they got from Stolas?

You know, the princess of Hell who’s trying to deal with the sinner-overpopulation problem learning that these imps are likely contributing to said overpopulation problem? As well as the whole ‘murder business’ thing.

Which would likely put Blitzo in the awkward and hilarious position of probably having to argue AGAINST the person arguing for his life because that person ALSO wants to shut down his business.

And of course because this is Blitzo we’re talking about, there is a VERY good chance he just makes a total ass of himself or at the very least puts his foot in his mouth in epic fashion.

And if she’s present, I can imagine Vaggie at some point is leaning over to quietly ask Charlie if they really NEED to be defending this guy?

Maybe this eventually leads to Blitzo, or Stolas or perhaps Moxxie making some big, dramatic, emotional, heartfelt plea, possibly in musical form, for them to be allowed to continue their wholesome family business… of murdering people.

And maybe that does in fact sway Charlie. Or at least tugs on her heartstrings enough to forget about the whole ‘murdering business’ thing long enough to argue for Blitzo’s life without pushing to shut down I.M.P.

Which is exactly when, again, Stolas chooses to burst in with his big self-sacrificial song number and make things even worse/wackier.

All in all, as much as people may love their ‘here’s how we could/should have gotten a perfect happy ending!’ author-tracts, I think this option is way more in-character, interesting and most importantly fun XD

[dawnfelagund]

Thank you, @by-shire-reckoning, for your thoughts on my work. I want to be clear that I in no way aim to criticize Tolkien in this! He was dead for a few years before I was even born. He comes with the historical and religious baggage around sex and gender that you mention. I can't fault him for that anymore than I can fault myself for not meeting acceptable standards for representation and whatnot that will exist one hundred years hence. It's a good thing that we've raised our expectations for representation since Tolkien was actively working on "Silmarillion" material.

The reason I do this work is because of us, his readers and fans, and his influence on broader Western culture. We have Tolkien's books as they are, and they shape us and how we see ourselves in the world. That women have only 17% of the dialogue is huge in a fandom that is majority women and gender minorities, as Tolkien fanworks fandom is. What does this mean for us and how we read, understand, and enjoy this text? And how do we then respond to it with fanworks? (And also for the record, I don't think women or any other group of fans need to respond in a singular way to these facts. Many women are unbothered by the legendarium as written and that's totally fine! Others of us use it as a reason for shaping our own fanworks.)

And of course Tolkien's work is the foundation of the fantasy genre, which means that, intended or not, his work has become a prototype that has echoed through popular culture for decades with race, gender, disability, and sexuality only recently being addressed with more than tokenism (and even that remains controversial). Again, not Tolkien's fault, but if the house leans, you look first to the foundation.

For example, you mention Lúthien, who I think is an excellent example of the tensions we sometimes feel within this work, where what we "know" of the legendarium and what the text actually says/does are at odds. Lúthien is always—and rightfully so—held up as THE example of a strong woman character. Yet she is mentioned 137 times in The Silmarillion while Beren is mentioned 146. He speaks eleven times. She speaks four. Again, this is not to say that Tolkien, writing in the 1950s, should have done better. But I, as a woman reader, have been unable to discuss gender and Tolkien without someone pointing at her and saying "but Lúthien" ... yet she still doesn't get the airtime or the opportunities to speak that her inferior male companion does. (Actually, I find it highly relatable as a woman who has done most of the work and shared the credit throughout my life in the majority of mixed-gender collaborative endeavors.) And a character like Lúthien becomes a prototype for the strong woman in fantasy: beautiful, magical, and silent.

I expect the outcome of these data will surprise no one. Women speak less, and women speak less. This isn't a typo: It means that they have fewer instances of dialogue in The Silmarillion by a substantial margin, and when they do speak, they speak nine fewer words than men, on average.

Instances of women speaking is much nearer to speakers of unknown gender than to men speaking. (And before we get excited and think that the "unknown gender" speakers are rejecting the gender binary, this category represents mostly dialogue attributed to a group, plus two unnamed individuals who are given dialogue and one sword.)

This matters because dialogue signifies several important things in The Silmarillion. First, in a pseudohistorical text like The Silmarillion, direct quotes mean that someone said something important enough to preserve in the historical record. Men, based on the data, are saying far more important things than women, at least in the various narrators' estimation. Next, dialogue is often a proxy to action: Characters debate, give directives, and make speeches. Dialogue also humanizes, and even though Tolkien rejects many modern literary techniques in The Silmarillion, he does use dialogue as a characterization technique. As I will show in future analyses, some characters are distinguishable based on how they speak.

Of course, the reduced dialogue of women in The Silmarllion is a direct effect of there being significantly fewer women than men: Women constitute only 19% of the named characters in The Silmarillion. Even given this, however, women speak less than we would expect.

When we look at character groups, there are notable differences, namely that women of the Ainur speak more than Mortal Human and Elven women do. (Only four Elven women and five Mortal Human women speak in The Silmarillion! Excuse me while I scream!) This was the thesis of the long-ago Inequality Prototype that spurred this data collection endeavor: The Valar, being prototypical, show an equal penchant for entering into the world based on gender: It is a 50/50 split. So we can't say that women have less desire to influence the world than men in the legendarium. When we see less action and fewer instances of dialogue among women, then, we have to ask why.

Complicating the data for the Ainur (overall, not just this set) is the fact that a big chunk of their dialogue occurs in the "Of Aulë and Yavanna" chapter that Christopher Tolkien wrote. I don't want to treat these data differently until I have the opportunity to collect more data on where dialogue outside this chapter comes from; for all I know, Christopher wrote most of it! (Actually, I know he didn't, but this chapter does illustrate how his additions can skew data for a particular group, in this case the Ainur.)

Another future area of inquiry will be the type or purpose of the dialogue and whether/how this varies based on gender. Characters speak for many reasons. Do women speak for different purposes than men?

If these data illustrate anything to me, it is the importance of fanworks in amplifying the voices of women characters who we know existed and know said and did things that mattered. We are being given a historical record much like our own Modern-earth historical record: biased toward the contributions of some over others. Only we can fix that.

---

This is part of my ongoing project The Silmarillion: Who Speaks? The data is available under a CC license for others who wish to play with it: View the data | Copy the data

[wings-of-ink]

Chapter 5 (slight) spoiler ask-response below.

From @origamihoshi

I guess this kind of have spoilers but... seeing a few asks about Oswin has reminded me of the fact on one hand the necklace has only made my MC love him more, on the other hand I see her stepping back a bit after he stopped her from confessing to him, like my MC doesn't want to be pushy or anything after all Oswin doesn't have to return her feelings all becasue she likes him. The way I see it is that my MC loves Oswin, but also she does want to find love and she has gotten closer with Zahn and those two could be really cute together, like all the ROs are so much fun and at this point she could end up with anyone of them. but also there's a hot thief that just joined the party and I personally have a thing for characters that are thieves and so even if the chance is small…Ravi's heart could be stolen.

Exactly, I totally feel this. Oswin can be a great match for some MCs, but at the end of the day, he is hiding things and dragging his feet because of his own foibles. Realistically, if you're the MC in that situation, you're having your heart broken repeatedly. So, when faced with someone who may have some secrets of their own, but that someone is actively reaching out with interest, it may make your MC rethink what's best for their heart. And then, they may always wonder if Oswin is just going to keep doing this.

I totally feel where Ravi is coming from here. I'll be interested to know if the Chapter 6 content does anything to sway her heart one way or another. ^_^

[vickyvicarious]

To anyone who is interested, here is my thoughts on Nosferatu (2024). In briefest sum: it's not my thing. I didn't really like it by large.

To be a little longer, but still remain mostly spoiler-free: There are several elements running throughout the movie. There's stuff taken directly from the original Nosferatu, there's stuff added in from Dracula, and there's also some elements that appear to me to be informed by other adaptations or reputation, as well as more modern tastes in the way horror movies operate. It is definitely still a horror, and for people who like this style of horror, I think a lot of them would enjoy it. Personally, I'm not super into gore or sexual horror scenes. There are definitely several of both. In general I like more subtle psychological horror, and in a lot of ways I think this movie is pretty in-your-face about what it does. That is a personal preference for me, though, and definitely not universal.

Also, while I find the combination of elements interesting, in several places I personally feel like it weakens characterization or at least my interest in the characters. That said, some character things that fans of Dracula like would probably include: Orlock is definitely still evil/hated by all. Thomas and Ellen (the Harker figures) are in love, and both protagonists we're meant to root for. There are also a lot of added scenes that call back to various events in the book. On the other hand, there is some degree of Ellen/Orlock that is likely a major turnoff for a lot of people, and also Friedrich (the Arthur figure) is definitely not our Art. Also, many of the callback scenes involve similar events, but almost inevitably twisted in some way, either to fit the changed place in the plot, the different characters, or to feed in to horror scenes that are more gory/sexual than you'd see in either original book or movie.

Finally, more specific spoilers under the cut:

Sorry in advance but this is more of a ramble than any specific progression throughout the plot.

I think that the story wanted to have its cake and eat it too a little bit in regards to the original book, the original film, and to pop-culture derived interpretations of Dracula themes and characters. I also think there was a degree of playing in to more typical modern horror expectations. Some of my thoughts on this are pretty suppositional because I don't actually like watching horror movies much and also haven't seen any film adaptations of Dracula (aside from the original Nosferatu and now this one). So feel free to disregard me if I'm wrong on any of those points. But I feel like there are several scenes that either alter events or add in gratuitous nudity or violence just because that's expected.

Like, for example, when Thomas arrives in the town near the castle. There's a whole odd scene where a bunch of people are dancing around and then kind of mocking him before he gets into the inn. Once there, we have a scene more like in the original movie (OM from here on out) where there's horrified reaction to him saying he's going to the castle, and also similar to the original book (OB) where he is given a crucifix. Then we have a scene that seems like a "queer dreams" reference (but when he wakes his shoes are muddy showing it really happened) where he follows a bunch of locals leading a naked virgin on a horse to a grace where they then stake a vampire. I think this is the same group who were outside the inn mocking him, though I'm not totally sure.

The staking scene irked me more in hindsight because it seemed to be suggesting a possible alternate ending, with the virgin potentially 'distracting' the monster's attention while its body was staked. I kind of wondered near the end if this was going to happen to some extent with Ellen taking out the shadow and Orlock's spirit while the men staked his physical body. Now, that too would be off from both originals and was entirely my own theory so it not being fulfilled isn't really a knock on the movie, but... While I guess we can see the connection here, the actual way the whole "pure woman offers herself to the vampire to kill it" plays out later has nothing really to do with this scene. So it still feels kind of like there was no point having her there, since all she did was ride naked on a horse, and so it felt more contrived to show a boob than really relevant to me. The people also are weird because of this. Are they in Orlock's employ and scornful of Thomas? Are they opposed to vampires and want to protect him? There's a weird mix, only increased when everyone is gone when he awakes (including the innkeepers) and have stolen his horse. I didn't feel like their behavior made sense.

OrlocI did like several of the trippy bits about Thomas' journey to the castle (though the empty carriage reminded me more of Curse of Strahd, haha), and some of the parts of him being there. The scenes where he is eating with Orlock and where he's being pressured into signing a contract he can't read are pretty good moments of him having to try and keep calm and polite while freaking out hugely internally, though it's all much more condensed and quick to become blatant attacks on him than the OB. But that itself is more similar to the OM. The scene when Orlock makes him say "my lord" instead of "sir" is pretty funny. I also quite liked the way Orlock turned his excuse to leave ("I've been having horrible dreams since getting here, I think I'm ill") against him into a reason he must stay ("It's not good to travel when you're sick, you must stay here until you get better"). From the book, we get scenes like Thomas asking about local traditions and being shut down, running frantically about after learning he's trapped, being threatened by wolves, and escaping out the window. But the way it happens is typically very different, with Orlock just having some wolves in his crypt apparently. Thomas going in there and opening up the coffin to see him isn't really led up to in any way, other than him running around searching for an exit. We do get an attempted shoveling, except it's not a shovel but a pickaxe, there's no apparent reason for it to be sitting there, and Orlock (who apparently sleeps totally naked) physically repels the blow and then chases after him/shadows him and then drinks him while also humping him. He wakes up in his bed afterwards, and escapes out the window while fleeing wolves that have been sent to attack him after Orlock (presumably) leaves. Then he falls into the river.

I think in general his character is closest to the equivalent OB character. He loves his wife intensely, and is determined to return to her and to protect her/kill the vampire who harmed her. There are still some really unfortunate moments where he tells her to ignore her creepy dreams and basically be normal (as well as disregarding her warnings not to leave, though that at least I seem to remember happening in the OM), and he's the one to say of course she'll be left behind when hunting vampires. But he never seems to think about leaving her, and definitely loves her a lot throughout. I also like him getting a limp after his escape from the castle, showing some lingering physical effect. Though he also apparently has bite marks since he shows them to people later on.

Von Franz is shown to be more lost in his 'crazy' theories than Van Helsing. He also is too willing to sacrifice others, and kind of has a crazy monologue while setting a bunch of stuff on fire which feels super out of character. But he plays a smaller part and I liked both him not being shown as a super vampire hunter (the one scene when Friedrich asks him how to kill the demon he's talking about and he's just like "I dunno, I've never actually seen one of these before" was funny) and him having respect for Ellen. He insists she not be tied up and empathizes with her psychic nature being preyed upon, being clear that the results are not her fault. Dr. Siever plays a really small role, and Knock (the Hawkins/Renfield medley) is just as comically evil as he is in the OM. He does get naked in a pentagram and gnaw on animals/people onscreen, but doesn't have a huge role. I had fun laughing at Orlock carrying his own coffin in the original but sadly no luck in that regard thanks to Knock escaping to help him.

Friedrich irks me the most because he's got a larger role and it's so different from Arthur. While Emma (Lucy) doesn't do too much, she's at least still a good friend to Ellen. He clearly doesn't like her from the start and just kind of puts up with her weirdness because of other people. He's a loving husband and father and that's where the most sympathy for him comes in, but also skeptic who hates the influence on his life that Ellen brings and has a hard time believing Von Franz about supernatural causes. While Siever apparently suggested it in the first place, he still is the one who approves tying Ellen up, and he's a jerk to her about her not being normal and not doing what he tells her. Not to mention kicking the Hutters out in the middle of a plague! As well as trying to flee when his wife is already suffering from the plague. He does traumatically lose his whole family, and he gets the shadow keeping him asleep while his children were killed, which originally happened to Jonathan while Mina was attacked. The scene of the nosferatu carelessly dropping a dead child reminded me of vampire!Lucy tossing aside a child in the graveyard. And in fact, having Emma be the only one awake rushing about to try and save her family and having to face the vampire alone is sort of similar to the night of Lucy's memorandum if you squint. I absolutely hated Friedrich's ending - he's visibly caught the plague and wanders off to the graveyard where he then has sex with his dead (not undead, just dead) wife and then dies doing so? Euch. If they just left out the necrophilia then it would feel much more coherent to his character, just kind of selfish and very intentionally 'normal' but still deeply loving his family and losing it after their loss. But that just seemed kind of thrown in there to add to the erotic horror to me, and since I don't like it, well. I didn't like it.

Ellen, now... it's hard to talk about her character in this without also talking about Orlock. But let me start with just her and then get to that after. They lean way in on the psychic Ellen from the OM, which I initially quite liked. She also seems to deeply love Thomas, though there are some later scenes that add a weird dynamic there. One being she only became 'normal' when she met him, and so he seems kind of like an escape from her psychic dreads. I initially really liked her connection to him when he was on his trip. She gave him a token of her hair in a locket, which she cut while staring psychically out into the night, and it seemed like it was linking her to him. Then, when Orlock took the locket, the connection seemed to contribute with her sometimes overlapping with Orlock in a way I initially thought was kind of cool. I really liked the way the actress did her own version of the clawed hands and the Orlock walk/silhouette, she embodied that really well.

The sexualized trances/dreams and seizures were definitely not to my taste thought, and the whole more Exorcist-style scenes where she seemed almost outright possessed didn't really make full sense to me most of the time. I really disliked what the story behind them and her connection to Orlock ended up being. Apparently she psychically reached out to something dark in her lonely youth and ended up waking him/making some sort of marriage pact with him? This is what aroused his interest in her all along and seemed to drive many of his actions. And while we do see that she hates him consciously, and outright rejects and insults him to his face in one scene, there's all this stuff where she seems very drawn to him despite that. I really hated the Hutton sex scene. It was bound up in an argument between them during which she seemed to at least partially believe Orlock's words about Thomas selling her (this was apparently the contract he couldn't read but signed because Orlock was menacing him) for a bag of gold. She also throws in his face that he's never satisfied her like her dream lover (the nosferatu). She seems to be getting partially possessed or something throughout this fight. She takes on the nosferatu posture and uses a different voice, but it's not made clear how much of this is some influence against her or her own inner darkness or her actual thoughts. Thomas looks scared of/for her and also freaked out by how crazy she seems, and then she crawls up to him begging for no doctor and then they have aggressive sex while she commands him to kiss her heart. That in particular makes it seem like she's trying to emulate her dream sex with the nosferatu, since he's always shown to bit the chest/over the heart. So that left a bit of a nasty taste in my mouth.

Again, we do see that she loves Thomas and wants to save him. But the eroticization of the vampire feeding (once again, they are clearly having sex while he drinks her blood. The only reason I wasn't a hundred percent sure this happened with Thomas is because he at least was wearing clothes thought Orlock was naked at the time) combined with the visual horror of making Orlock look so open-wound and corpsey combined to have a really weird feel of just wanting to show a woman having sex with a horrible monster. The sexual horror thing... but she agreed to it, yes as a plan to kill Orlock, but what with the dreams thing and her making sex noises and whatnot it kind of seems like she's enjoying it too. Then when they find her body there's this kind of weird detail where she has a hand holding Orlock to her chest (she drew him back down and asked him to drink more blood when he started to notice the onset of dawn) and Thomas takes her other hand, and it feels symbolic somehow. Her lover being death and her husband reaching out for her but her clinging death closer... I dunno. The whole sex and dream connection/prolonged haunting aspect made it seem a lot less resigned sacrifice than it did in the OM, and definitely way more of her being drawn to him in return than in the OB.

Orlock himself was a pretty nice mix of Dracula and OM Count for most of it I think. I liked when he called himself nothing but hunger, it feels like it leaned in more to his OM counterpart. Using Thomas's fate against her (and before that, the Hardings) was very much something OB Dracula would do too. But his whole past with Ellen and consequent fixation on her kind of took over everything he did. And since I didn't like that element... I did love the shadow stuff, and enjoyed when he did the classic nosferatu walk with the hands reaching out, though it wasn't as often. His design was definitely creepy as well.

I liked the plague elements. I also liked the shadow of the vampire, and kind of wish there had been more emphasis put on that. I feel like in the OM, more horror was shown in his movements and his physicality partially just due to the medium. But it was also really iconic, especially the shadow, and I liked the instances when it was used to reflect his influence.

Not a fan of all the thrashing about (sexually and also just seizing/shaking) and drooling/vomiting/blood spilling from mouths. But those are more personal preference and again feel like more modern horror staples to various degrees. My biggest grief is the Orlock/Ellen stuff and how that infects other things around it.

BUT... if you like this sort of story, as I imagine many do, and if you are able to see it as its own thing enough not to get upset with the divergences (for example Orlock/Ellen, or Friedrich vs. Arthur) then I think a lot of people would enjoy this movie.

[olligane]

Hello Greed Nation. How we feeling today?

[lgbtlunaverse]

So I've said multipe times now (here and here) that thinking nmj is just so blinded by privilege he doesn't undertand that acting out of line gets people killed is, in my opinion, a misunderstanding of his character that ignores the part where he's, you know, actively dying the whole time and thinks that's a good thing. But that doesn't mean I don't think privilege plays no role at all in how he views the world.

Specifically, his view that death (at least premature or violent death) means something.

Death isn't always a tragedy to NMJ, but it is always meaningful. If you kill an evil dangerous person for your righteous cause, that death had meaning. There was evil in the world and now there is less of it. Similarly, if you die in the pursuit of your righteous cause, that death has meaning, because the sheer dedication you gave to it that you were willing to die for it will further that cause, and your bretheren will be invigorated by your sacrifice to fight even harder.

If a death isn't meaningful, that's an injustice and it is up to the living to give it meaning. That's what cuts so deep about his father's murder. There were no consequences, no changes, no meaning. Wen Ruohan was just going to get away with it! He fights and wins an entire war to make it mean something, to make it so that the unjust murder of Nie Mingjue's father is part of Wen Ruohan's downfall.

But this is a view he can only hold because he's the kind of person who's death will be meaningful. Most ordinary people's deaths are meaningless. Not ontologically, not inherently, but they are made meaningless because no one cares. For death to be meaningful you either have to be so powerful that anything you risk your life for will be impacted in some way. (Like, say, if you sacrifice a long life for immense martial power in a faustian bargain with a blade) Or if people with that kind of power care enough about you to do so for you. For most people, this isn't true. A starving street kid has no power to change the unfair world that put them there, even if they risk their life trying, and no one will do it for them once they die.

Nie Mingjue knows this in abstract, and of course rightfully believes it's wrong. But all that does is make it yet another righteous cause people should be willing to die for. Everyone's deaths should mean something, we'll make it so or die trying!

This is what the conflict between nieyao is about at its core. Because Jin Guangyao, fundamentally, cannot conceive of his own death as meaningful. Nie Mingjue grew up around powerful men who could change the world but refuse to do so because god forbid they risk a single hair on their perfect heads. Meng Yao, on the other hand, grew up in an environment where no one of importance would blink twice if you died. He was surrounded by meaningless death. Indeed his entire early life is defined by that lack of care.

Meng Shi dies and no one cares. Meng Yao gets thrown off a flight off stairs and no one cares. He has to be the one to do the caring, and once he's gone no one else will do it for him.

So he has to live.

Jin Guangyao eventually gets far enough that he actually does aquire the power to change some things... as long as he's alive. If he changes too much, holds on too tightly to his ideals, he'll die and it'll all be for nothing. He can't sacrifice himself for his goals because doing so would immediately render those goals unobtainable. No one will care about what he tried to do. He won't be a heroic sacrifice, he'll just be trash that finally cleaned itself up.

And well... Nie Mingjue dies, and someone makes it mean something. Makes it mean so much that the entire story of mdzs would not exist without it. Jin Guangyao dies and it doesn't mean anything. Most people are glad to be rid of him, and the few that are not don't do anything to change that.

[nartml]

Saw a comment describe killugon as 'born to be brothers, forced to be best friends'.

And I just have to say that, out of all the things that have never happened, that has never happened the most.

[sir-fenris]

Started with tags, but then it got too long, as always :'D

-

"He was too busy with his hundreds of psychic children"

And lost all of them. Should've stayed with your own kids, mate. You're awful with anyone else's.

But I'm glad he does love his own kids.. it's hard to see Martino loving anything with that attitude of his. Such a bitter man.

"Ohhh so you can be nice but you just choose to be cruel to me. Why"

ouch

That actually made me sad, that's a heartbreaking feeling/thought, cause it IS so fucking unfair and there's nothing to do about it. Delta deserved so much better.

Fuck you Martino, ugh.

Lorelai knowing Martino's daughters is..... very interesting. Feels like two different worlds interacting, idk why. Martino and Lorelai "side to side" (as in, Lorelai and Martino just coexitisting in the same space or talk) feels.... idk. Two worlds apart. Though they're actually very close, considering Paris. And even Delta. And now Martino's daughters.

"(...) totally backfired and delta was the one who ended up getting punished for it, as seems to always be the case. "

Fucking ouch

I like Simon better than Martino, but fuck him for that one, holy shit. Even Paris comforted Delta in his half-assed way. When Martino and Paris defend Delta is when you know you fucked up BAD. Cause this two seem to make his life miserable just for the freaking thrill of it sometimes. Most times. All times.

Delta cried. Cried. And then blamed himself for crying. And then- ugh. I could spend hours talking about that chapter, really, I meant it. Heartbreaking. Every single detail, beginning to end.

A bit of more yapping below.

So yeah. I like Simon. At least more than Martino. But he's not out of hate's way. Delta also suffered without reason because of him >:(

And I really do like Martino. His character is cool to read about, and I'm always, constantly, curious about him. Sometimes even more than I am about Simon. But I still hate him. Cause fuck this asshole. Everytime I re-read a scene of his, I feel like kicking the air.

"There was nothing they could do for the broken ribs. Dr.Martino was clearly reluctant to yield about the painkillers; Simon had to leave the room to calm down." (This chapter) <- LIKE THIS FUCKING PARAGRAPH, FUCK YOU MARTINO. The way this man makes me angry with one single sentence is astounding.

Guess liking and hating him at the same time is what makes me be so curious about him, tbf.

Since Martino is dead, though, I'm very curious about Simon.

"Simon stared at him. Paris briefly misread his expression as scorn; his hand tightened around the blade. But as the light shifted, he knew what he was witnessing. He’d seen grief on the faces of plenty of old men. He let go of the sword. Simon didn’t say a word." (first chapter of Crash out) <- I take this as to say he's miserable. Cause like...... His mind was already on a bad place before.

How could it be not? The person who had his role before pulled the trigger for a reason (honestly, curious about this person too. But that's not new, I'm curious about everything)

And then he learn Martino AND Delta are gone in one swoop. Like? Fuck. And he probably knew more people who died, but I think Martino and Delta must have hit harder. And then he doesn't have a job anymore. And Paris is also gone. And NEZU is on the throne. Like? Fuck #2. Terrible place to be in, really.

Why did I make this a long comment again? Geez. I have to stop writing so much. Sorry :') Thanks for the extra information, I always love extra informations.

-

Delta saying "i love you" and being so much softer in Rubies it's so... 🥺🤏 melts my heart. And then I started to think, how would people that knew Delta before react if they saw him now, being like that?

So... Simon and Martino (if the asshole was still alive), how would they react to seeing Delta now?

And by the way... how is Simon? To him, both Delta and Martino are dead and Paris is gone and... well. How is he holding up?

While Martino might not think Delta is being intentionally deceptive, he would still believe that Delta is misrepresenting himself with any facsimile of softness. That is a fucking serial killer. Martino would think Galatea was being way too lenient with him and that it’s an accident waiting to happen.

But I think on some level he actually would feel guilty. He can recognize how completely starved for affection Delta is and knows that it is largely his fault. He’s being present with clear evidence that Delta is actually capable of kindness and empathy rather than just mindless obedience, which definitely ruins his perception of Delta as a soulless monster who basically deserved everything that happened to him. He feels a small pang of conscience over this, but ultimately buries it because “Delta’s just being manipulative again.”

As for Simon, this will be answered within the story! How do you think he’s doing? :)

[palaceoftears]

Magnificent Century Rewatch: One Picspam per Episode

Episode 17: The Double Joy

-My dear mother used to say "walk barefoot on earth and it shall take away all your troubles and sorrows, earth shall give you happiness and joy"

-Your mother spoke well, one can only find peace in earth. But I'm not sure if it is on earth or in it.

[specterthief]

The "just not the dub" in your tags, thanks 🙏. (I do think the dub has its place and it's got some stuff but it's not necessarily the same show. And the original is just superior when it comes to the emotional beats. The dub I think tried too hard to be "funny" and it kinda took away some of the characters' good qualities (esp Reki imo).)

tbh ironically reki is the one character who i think suffers least from the dub because when the script is good his performance is generally really good on a technical level and pretty fitting to the character's original tone, and he seems to have suffered from the least like... active material changes to his characterization, i guess because no one really had any problems with reki lol

but saying "when the script is good" is kind of fraught in the first place, because untangling the absolute mess of the general scriptwriting from the intentional character changes from the actors improvising with no oversight is such an overwhelming task i've tried to break it down and given up multiple times already, so even generally feeling like reki was the character who had the best transition to dub he's still held down by being in this dub

i do think it can have some entertainment value just to watch a bit here and there to hear the characters speaking english but the fact that they self-admittedly completely rewrote characters and altered the script to the point of changing the actual plot and themes of the show just kind of supersedes the few praiseworthy things it's got, because it's treated as an equal and equivalent way of enjoying the story and it's just... really functionally not the same story. and now the fandom is full of people going solely off the dub and thinking it's the same story and projecting that back on the original text or gleefully praising the dub's (again, admitted) efforts to "improve" the source material and "make it gayer" by adding fanservice while censoring the actual text. it doesn't even hold up for a theoretical accessibility use case, before you even get to the story changes, because important information in the visuals that's conveyed in characters' dialog and tone in japanese gets completely cut or lost in english.

i can't stop people from enjoying it obviously but i wish there could at least be an understanding that it's not the same show and shouldn't be discussed as if they're interchangeable, and i'm always going to put disclaimers like that on any kind of recommendation because the original story is what i'm recommending and the dub isn't that. i love the original show and i want people to experience that as nearly as they possibly can, not someone's smug fanfiction pasted over the original animation.

[magnusmodig]

ovo whispers menacingly abt his grandstanding .