#but I do believe it's been done poorly and hangs around for nostalgic reasons

[merge-conflict]

ok. thought about it and my kneejerk dislike of the cyberpunk genre's obsession with 3D hacking is that it ignores everything that makes it actually cool or interesting. hacking is about removing layers of abstraction and using assumptions and lack of visibility against programmers and operators. 80% of my job is bodyslamming web apps and APIs and I'm not sure how many devs have actually seen a raw HTTP request or opened up wireshark and looked at a TCP stream. the whole point is that you're poking around under the hood. the whole point is that technological communication is so messy and unreliable and invisible that you can do weird shit without someone knowing what's going on. anyone who has ever troubleshot anything can tell you how much time they've wasted tracking down something Weird only to discover it's normal and happens 3000 times a second. the idea that you could somehow usefully abstract all the details and just operate like that is akin to saying people shoot more accurately with their eyes closed.

now I am most definitely not against simplifying or streamlining what hacking is or how it works or making it fun to play a game. i just think that reducing what is inherently an ugly and text-heavy operation into visual abstraction is a shame. I don't want alt to show her power by being a Giant Woman, I want to see her casually shutting v out of their body like flicking switches. I want to be able to track down the server racks she's squatting in and wonder how many backups of her mind she's made and where she keeps them safe. I want to look at an abstracted flow of network traffic and see how she hides herself in ways netwatch can't find, right under their noses. I want people to acknowledge there are no 'walls' in a network, just dark shapes passing under the ice. there's no quarantined network sitting off in some shed containing every scary monster the world has ever seen- they're right here and you can't see them by design, because hiding is what keeps them safe. a city's network is its nervous system and it's not like you can just section pieces of that off. you might as well claim the mediterranean has been walled off from the ocean because it's a sea.

[jiwonscologne]

Love is a Triangle

Part 1 - Part 2 - Part 3 - Part 4 - ?Part 5?

Pairing: Double B x Reader

Genre: Angst, slight fluff, smut suggestion

Warning: swearing, mentions of cheating

 We decided to visit a little fair on their day off. It was a Thursday and the weather was very pleasing, not too hot and not too cold, just on point. Hanbin won two plushies for me and when Jiwon saw that he was so good at those shooting and hitting games, he got competitive and started to play too, which was extremely funny because I watched him get cocky because of our boyfriend and I won one more plushie. We stopped by a food truck on our way out of the marketplace. Hanbin ordered for all of us, and mine and his order were made first. We both got out of the line since there were a lot of people around the truck, and we waited for Jiwon. When he was about to come in our direction, a girl approached him and he widened his eyes and parted his lips, static. I couldn’t hear anything but I didn’t like the way she was smiling nor the way he was reacting to her words. I knew right away that wasn’t a fan. Hanbin saw it too and he widened his eyes just like Jiwon did when he saw her. I am right, they know  her.

 - Who is she? - I look at Hanbin.

 - That’s...Myung-Hee. His first love. - His answer hit like a needle on my chest. Not just what he said, the way he said it concerned me the most. I’m worried since I’ve heard her name before from his mouth, when he told me how Jiwon had such a hard time on forgetting about her. We talked about brief moments on the ‘first love topic’ and everyone knows our first love is the one who stays in your heart forever, the one you can’t erase because it’s our first experience with love itself, which makes it so special. It’s normal but if the ending is bad...that stays, and stinks. Jiwon had that bad luck.

 - What is she doing here? - I ask, innocently and with a firm, slightly threatening voice.

 - Why don’t you ask him? - Hanbin smiles poorly at Jiwon finding our way back to us with a rushed pace.

 - Hey. Here’s my food. - He smiles, raising his fish cake, and we start walking to go home.

 I want to talk, even though I’m waiting for him to speak without making me ask. Hanbin and I create a suffocating silence and he finally breaks it. - I know you saw it. - He looks at us but we limit ourselves by watching our steps. - And I’m shocked like you. She’s...I don’t know why she’s here, I thought she was living in Australia. I didn’t even know what to say to her when I saw her.

 - But, she did know what to say to you. - I insinuate.

 - Yeah...

 - What did she say? - Hanbin faces him.

 - She asked how I was doing and she told me sometimes she checks on me when I’m trending on social media.

 I nod. I feel so powerless. I know he’s going to think about her the rest of the week now. I know I’m going to, too. Why did she appear again? Why did she talk to him? Doesn’t she understand how much she hurt him back then? It’s unbelievable how we forget about someone and they come back to remind us.

 Jiwon told us how she had to check that it was him before she approached him since “he changed so much” after six years. I mean, duh, what did she expect? Hanbin asked how he was feeling after seeing her and Jiwon answered he was nostalgic and surprised.

 I had some questions myself, yet I kept quiet until we got home and had some privacy.

 - Summer, you’ve been silent all the way home. Are you okay? - Jiwon anticipates.

 - The reason you broke up… - I want to complete my sentence however he does it for me.

 - Was because I loved her more than she loved me. I told you that.

 - Yes, although...did she cheat on you with the other guy?

 - The other guy she started dating after me?

 - Yes.

 - You know...I wasted two years of my life asking me all kinds of questions about our relationship. Like you right now, I didn’t understand what she said to me. When she was breaking up with me, she told me and I quote “...my love for you has faded. I can tell you still love me and I could always tell that you’ve always loved me more than I loved you. And I once told you that your expectations were too high to see the truth. I told you that I wasn’t who you saw but eventually you convinced me to love you, but that’s over now.”  With this, you can go on various paths of thoughts. I thought she was cheating on me too, but maybe she wasn’t. She was right, I was blind on my love for her. I ignored all the times she could’ve supported me and she chose not to. I loved her with everything I had and it was clearly a mistake because she didn’t do the same for me.

 - Ji… - I hug him and he chuckles.

 - It’s okay, it happens. I was young, it’s water under the bridge.

 - Is it? - Hanbin asks.

 - Yes. I love you now, the past doesn’t matter. This made me find you guys and I’m grateful for that.

 - I love you. You know that we love you equally, right? - I make sure he hears it.

 - Yes, bae. I never doubted you. - That answer made me instantly in a better mood.

 - Now that we’re done with this conversation, Chanwoo invited us to go bowling tonight. - Hanbin takes his phone out of the pocket. - What do I answer?

 - Tell him no! - Jiwon startles me with the exclamation.

 - Why? - I raise my eyebrow.

 - This is our first day-off in months and he wants to hang out like we don’t see him everyday? - Jiwon rolls his eyes.

 - Babe, that’s kind of harsh. Don’t you think? - Hanbin says, surprised by his comment. - Besides, it’s with Jinhwan and Junhoe, too.

 - It’s not harsh, I’m just saying I’d prefer to be with my partners today.

 - Okay, that’s fine. - I say. I give Hanbin a look to leave Jiwon alone for a little bit.

 - Alright, I’ll tell him we can’t go. - Hanbin texts Chanwoo and goes to our bedroom.

 He said he’s fine but he’s clearly affected by meeting her again. I don’t blame him, he knows that we’re here for him. I just wish she hadn’t shown up on our lives.

 - I have to stop by the broadcasting station to do something. See you later.

 - What? I thought we would spend the whole day together. - Jiwon turns to me.

 - We still have many hours left when I get back. We can eat dinner and watch a movie after I finish it.

 - Hm, okay, but give me a kiss before you go. - I lean at him on the couch to reach his lips. - Hanbin I’m gonna head out! - I scream. He comes running to the hall, now with his sweatpants instead of his jeans.

 - What? You’re leaving?

 - I need to do some work, I’ll be back before dinner.

 - No… - He says lowly.

 - Bye baby. - I kiss him and get out.

 I choose to drive myself to work instead of calling our driver. It will take less time and I just want to finish it as soon as possible.

 Fortunately I had to do this, because after I saw her, she’s the only thing in my mind and I have to distract myself, otherwise I’ll go crazy. The way this is affecting Jiwon is worrying me: Answering without thinking and then being clingy with us. It’s like he’s frustrated with others but trying to compensate it with giving us attention. It’s probably his manner to tell us we have nothing to worry about and that he loves us so we don’t need to be jealous. It won’t work, but at least it’s kind of cute to see how he cares about our feelings. He’s so selfless sometimes…

 I finish everything in time for dinner. When I get home, Jiwon is cooking and Hanbin is setting the table.

 - Welcome home! - They greet me.

 - It smells good. - I direct myself to the kitchen.

 - It’s done, let’s eat. - Jiwon turns the stove off and takes the two pans to the table.

 - Did you do a broadcast today? We didn’t turn the radio on. - Hanbin grabs a full spoon of kimchi rice.

 - You know I don’t talk in them, I just prepare the songs.

 - I know, but I like to see everything that you do.

 - You’re so lame sometimes. - I laugh.

 - I’m in love. - He’s right. Hanbin’s first loves are me and Jiwon. He says things like these because he never said it to someone before, he never experienced this, it’s a fresh love, a new emotion to him. Sometimes that scares me.

 The rest of the week passes by smoothly. iKON is preparing for their comeback and I’m working harder since a lot of people on my job are on vacation so I have to broadcast full night sessions because no one will be there to entertain the listeners with conversation.

 I’m grabbing my coffee after work, which means it’s 6:45 pm. I stop by a newsstand to see if it has the monthly magazine that I read yet, since it’s the beginning of the month, but instead, I read something that catches me by surprise. I have to check it three times before I believe it. I look at the picture, yet my heart is telling me it’s not true. As soon as I notice the owner of the place is about to recognize me, I cover my face and walk away in a fast pace.

                                                                                                              9:43 am

 - Bobby, you have to be careful. I’m warning you, I don’t want something like this to happen again. Don’t make yourself frowned upon, you’re a good guy. - The YG CEO says.

 - Yes, I’m sorry, sir. I won’t. - Jiwon leaves the office and goes back to the room where the iKon members are working at, which is chaotic with loud whispers and hand gestures: 

 “I don’t know how he thought he wouldn’t get caught.”

 Jiwon sees Jinhwan doing a facepalm.

 “Shut up now, he’s coming!”

 As soon as he enters, the chaos turns to a tense and awkward silence.

 When Jiwon looks at Hanbin, he has a death glare on his face that Jiwon only sees when Hanbin is super annoyed. That’s how he knows he messed up. However, he composes himself together. - Okay, let’s get to work. - He joins his hands together and the group prepares themselves.

 Donghyuk plays the song so they can practice. The movements are slow at the beginning and there’s no trouble until the song grows and Hanbin goes in front of the mirror to watch them dance.

 - Junhoe, keep going. - He says, and after that notices Jiwon isn’t doing it right. - Jiwon, slow down. - He does as told, but then he goes off beat again and his movements don’t match with the rest of the group. - Jiwon. - He calls him out once more.

 He sighs and tries again.

 - Jiwon, I told you to slow down, can’t you hear the rhythm? - Hanbin’s annoyed.

 - I’m sorry. - He apologizes, staring at his feet.

 - Do you want to play it again? - Junhoe asks.

 - Yes please. - They do and Jiwon is out of focus once again. It’s understandable since he was just scolded at, but Hanbin loses his patience. - I know you’re not listening to the song. Can you try to focus? We’re having trouble because of you.

 - I can’t. - Jiwon is static and frustrated.

 - You can, we’ve practiced this dance a million times.

 - Should I stop playing it? - The song keeps playing and Junhoe sees everyone stopped because of them two.

 - No, let’s continue, Jiwon just do it again. - Hanbin seems careless.

 - I told you I can’t right now. Please listen to me. - Jiwon’s sad voice is getting strict.

 - Guys, maybe we should come back later. - Jinhwan realizes the fight is becoming personal and wants to step back.

 - You can’t but you have to, we’re working. - Hanbin keeps his figure.

 - Please let me talk to you first.

 - We’re practicing, we’re group mates right now, this is not the place to talk, we’ll talk at home. - Hanbin reminds him of their situation. - You’ve been keeping this secret since last week, can’t you wait a little longer? - Hanbin starts to get worked up.

 - Look Hanbin, I’m sorry! - He gets closer to him and the boys watch them quietly. - I’m sorry, alright? - He says, loud.

 - We should go, come on. - Yunhyeong whispers and they discreetly leave the room.

 - Why didn’t you tell us you were having lunch with her? - Hanbin shoots.

 - I...didn’t want you to be worried. I knew you would be like this. I knew it!

 - Of course I would react like this, she’s your ex! Worse, she’s your first love. You know what that means and I know it too, I’m feeling it right now! - Hanbin yells. - Just tell me what were you thinking when you didn’t tell us you were meeting her again. Tell me how could you make me find out this way. - Hanbin rambles. - I knew something was up yesterday! I knew it! You avoided me and looked the other way all morning and when I asked where you were when lunch time came, nobody knew where you were! They thought you were with Donghyuk but then he appeared so I thought “oh, maybe he forgot something at home”. - Hanbin looks him in the eyes waiting for a regretful answer.

 - I didn’t know you were going to find out this way, I didn’t see any paparazzi. I was going to tell you…- Jiwon’s calm and failing voice is irritating Hanbin.

 - You were going to tell me when? These people are everywhere so these things happen! They want society to see our flaws! Oh God, Jiwon. - Hanbin starts walking back and forth.  - Do you know what I thought this morning when I heard this? I didn’t believe it, I didn’t believe someone could be that dumb, seriously, Donghyuk had to show me the picture so I could see you two were really together. You know you’re on the papers, right? Social media too. I guess you know that, considering the CEO talked to you. - Hanbin looks at him. - Jesus, you realize Summer probably saw it too? She works with the media, Jiwon. On the fucking radio. And if she didn’t see it yet, she will.

 - I know...do you think she really saw it? - Jiwon’s guilt is growing and his face is sadder. - She will think I cheated on her...and on you… - Hanbin covers his face, concerned. Jiwon sighs and starts crying. - What do I do…? - Hanbin subtly looks at him.

 - Babe you can still call her. Maybe she didn’t see it, I mean, it came to us first because it’s about you. It’s YG’s business.

 - But it’s everywhere, like you said, if she didn’t see it, she will. Besides, I don’t want to do this over the phone. - Jiwon runs his fingers through his hair. - Oh God. - He gets up, wondering around, lost.

 Someone of the staff knocks on the door to warn them to continue the schedule. Jiwon wipes his tears off.

 - We’ll talk better at home. - Hanbin grabs Jiwon’s shoulder.

                                                                                                                 7:03 pm

 I get home, alone, devastated by the news I kept overthinking on the car. The moment I drop my keys in the little plate, I let my body sink in the couch and I wait for them. I turn the TV on but I don’t pay attention to even what channel I’m watching. I limit on calming myself down so when they get here, I don’t seem too upset since I want to understand what Jiwon has to say. About an hour and a few minutes later, I hear the door open and the tinkling of the keys along with some whispers. They get to the living room and I welcome them, getting up off the couch.

 - How was your day, baby? - They give me a kiss on a cheek.

 - Good.  - I answer. - How was yours?

 - Wait, you don’t want to specify what you did? - Jiwon says, slightly nervous.

 - No, it was a normal day. - I fake my answer. - How was your day?

 Hanbin gives Jiwon a look so he can go ahead and tell me. - We...worked! - Jiwon smiles.

 - Oh. - I fake a smile.

 - Yeah...but Summer, I have to tell you something. - He gulps and takes my hand to sit us down. - Last week, when I saw Myung-Hee, she later on Friday asked me to have lunch with her yesterday...so I did. I just wanted to know how she was doing and maybe be in peace with her on my head. I’m sorry I didn’t tell you guys, I clearly paid for it this morning. Everyone is upset at me on the company and they’re right, I wasn’t careful and I didn’t think.

 - “Be in peace with her” ? - Hanbin whispers in an irritated voice.

 - I know. You didn’t. - They look at me, confused. - I know everything. - I nod. - I read it on a magazine after work. I didn’t know till I got my coffee. I know what you’re thinking, I don’t usually drink coffee at that time but today I did, and now I wish I didn’t. It’s funny how things work.

 - Summer, I’m sorry. I feel so bad, are you upset? - His concerned face surfaces.

 - I’m upset you hid this from us. How could you? You lied to us, Jiwon. Let me ask you, if it wasn’t out by the paparazzis, were you going to tell us at all?

 - I was. Yesterday. - He looks away.

 - Oh really? Because I don’t recall you telling me this yesterday.

 - I… - He stutters. - Hanbin was tired and when we got home I couldn’t just…

 - So you waited for the magazines to do it for you? - I pop a senseless question.

 - I didn’t know there were magazines in the first place!

 - Oh then next time, when you meet her again, make sure, yeah? - I cross my arms and I get up, looking to the other side of the room.

 - Baby… - Jiwon reaches for me and tries to hug me but I push him away. - I’m not going to meet her again. - He grabs my arms and looks at me.

 - Like I could believe you after you lied. - I look away.

 - He’s not. - Hanbin finally breaks his silence.

 - How do you know? Why are you so quiet? - I start shooting questions against him. - You knew about this, didn’t you? - Hanbin frowns by my question. - You boys always exclude me from everything. Just because I’m not with you all day like you two are.

 - Summer, you know that’s not true! And I didn’t know! I found out when the staff asked how I was doing after “the Bobby thing”. I was clueless. I felt exactly like you did but it was this morning! You have to understand I had all day to think about this.

 I feel my eyes get watery and it’s not long until tears start running down my cheeks. He’s right, my feelings are more fresh, my anger is building up and I’m being jealous for every little thing I can find.

 - Baby. - Jiwon calls me, worried and regretful.

 - I’m sorry, Bin. - I wipe my tears. - It was probably harder for you. - I recognize my mistake to judge him. - Could you work today at all? Everyone was probably asking you all sorts of questions or giving you looks. - I get concerned.

 - Yes, they were. - Jiwon watches us talk. - But I had to pretend everything was okay so we could keep the schedule going. I admit in the morning we fought, but we’re talking better here with you at home.

 - Babes, listen to me. I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to cause you trouble.

 - Jiwon you have to understand you didn’t put just you at risk. You put you, me, Summer and  iKON. - He enumerates the amount of people with his fingers. - You saw how difficult it was to practice today. I know I said this already but you were so dumb.

 - I know. I apologized to the CEO.

 - Irresponsible. - He continues. - Just because of her. What did you get from this lunch, besides problems, anyway?

 - Yes, what was that “be in peace with her in my head”? - I come back to this. - You assured to us last week that the past didn’t matter, so why did you say this earlier?

 - I just wanted to know if I could see her as a friend and not someone who broke my heart for the first time. I know I said the past doesn’t matter, and it doesn’t, but sometimes she comes to my mind and I feel insecure. I feel like the 16 year-old boy that met a pretty girl and fell in love with her, even though she didn’t fell for him.

 Hanbin and I stay quiet for moment to take in what we heard.

 - Ji, you know you grew up. And you know we love you.

 - You’re not a boy. - Hanbin follows my sentences. - You are a wonderful man. I know this because we grew a lot together, I saw you become this confident and handsome person. Don’t make yourself think you’re the same as you were when you met her. You changed, for the best. Forget her. Forget the 16 year-old boy. Trust yourself now, and trust us. Trust that we love you and that you love us, that’s all that matters, nothing else.

 Jiwon smiles by Hanbin’s beautiful words. - I’m sorry. I will say it until you both forgive me. I promise I won’t lie to you ever again even if I have the tendency to do it, I won’t hide things from you. I fucked up but I learned my lesson. I hate to see you mad at me.

 I pout. - Alright, I forgive you.

 Jiwon opens his arms for a hug, hoping we can accept it.

 - Me too. - Hanbin hugs him and I join in.

 - I hate it when you don’t tell me stuff. - I say, with one of my cheeks buried on Hanbin’s back, making my voice sound more innocent and cute.

 - I’m sorry, I didn’t want to make you feel left out. Ever. I love you so much. - Jiwon gives me a kiss on the cheek. - I won’t embarrass you like that again either, Bin. I’m going to apologize to the members tomorrow for delaying our practice. - He sighs. - I feel like a weight just lifted off my shoulders, thank you for forgiving me.

 - Okay Jiwon, it’s forgotten, let’s just move on and relax and go to bed.

 - You’re already sleepy? - Jiwon asks, suspicious.

 - No. - I give him a smile.

 Hanbin looks at Jiwon, takes off his shirt and goes after me, walking to our bedroom and I can hear Jiwon rushing himself to catch us before we start.

[raystart]

Pentagram’s Natasha Jen on Pseudo Feminism, the Power of Passive Activism, and “Alien Stuff”

It’s peaceful to sit in the second floor waiting area of Pentagram’s New York City headquarters. Perhaps it’s due to the full-floor view of leafy Madison Square Park across Fifth Avenue. Or maybe it’s the nostalgic touches throughout the office*—an unplugged black rotary phone, for example, sits on a side table next to the comfy red couches. The most civilized touch could definitely be the The New York Times hanging from a metal rack on the wall. Sitting there in Pentagram’s elevated lobby, eyeing the Times, one feels a certain desire to chuck their always-on cellphone into the Fifth Avenue traffic, curl up with the inky newsprint, and spend the afternoon leisurely reading. But then the whole reason for this stop is to interview Natasha Jen. Her reputation precedes her. She was named one of Pentagram’s youngest partners ever, in 2012 at age 35.

Her far-reaching resume shows she can do just about anything: brand identities, multi-scale exhibitions, signage systems, print, motion, and interactive graphics, collaborations with universities, museums, fashion brands, and restaurants. There is even a rumor that she can fly.

Still, it leaves one question unanswered: Who is Natasha Jen? The impetus for having lunch was to hear about the life experiences that have shaped her perspective and contributed to her success.

Natasha Jen photographed in and around her home in downtown Brooklyn.

At the 2017 99U Conference, you gave a talk that argued that design thinking is bullshit, which hit on a topic many other designers also felt passionate about and sparked a constructive debate on the subject. Is there another topic on your mind these days that has you fired up?

Oh yeah. It started during the U.S Presidential election when Donald Trump said awful things about, and exhibited awful behaviors toward, women. Since then there has been this rise of renewed feminism in American culture. Since the election, there has been news about sexual harassment, sexual discrimination, one after another, from different industries. The idea of feminism is in women’s heads and in our daily conversation. But, I’ve been noticing brands, especially women’s brands, use this newfound popularity of feminism to gain profit. To me, this is not genuine feminism. Some brands are actually trying to create, I think, a lot of insecurity in women; to make women feel: “Oh, I’m not good. Therefore, I need that.” I’ve seen that kind of rhetoric in different ways, but they are under this disguise of empowerment. I’m sorry, but they are not about empowerment. They are about generating profit.

This is something I have noticed more and more in advertising; how people approach topics around women’s body types. It’s not anything new, but there is a problem when we’re still talking about a certain body type as a kind of “ideal” body type. For example, there is a trend towards celebrating plus-size women, which is wonderful, but it is also a fine line. So, okay, skinny is now no good. We need to actually be large-size, but then if you look at being large, which a lot of times is biological, there is a fine line between being large and being obese. Are we actually saying that it’s okay to be obese? It’s not, right? Alternatively, we used to idealize thin, shapeless bodies. Which is equally problematic, because we were not really saying being anorexic was good, either.

Currently, our society does not have the selective ability to question these topics because, the way that social media works is that when you respond to something, you like it. If you don’t like it, you can walk away. There is not any form of dialogue in-between. We lose our ability to question. And we end up in this situation where there’s this kind of pseudo feminism wrapped under capitalism and we don’t have a way to question these things that are important for the progress of women’s rights, body image and feminism.

Can branding or design do anything to impact this?

Yes. And it’s actually doing a lot of things to enable this kind of pseudo feminism. I don’t want to call out names, but branding and marketing contributes, which is sad.

What would you do in response to what you’re seeing?

This may sound passive on the surface – as we can’t un-involve ourselves from capitalism – but we can choose not to participate in the consumption and production of these brands and their products. I still believe that the choice of not participating is a kind of activism.

You grew up in Taiwan, and have lived in New York City ever since you moved here to attend the School of Visual Arts (SVA). As a teenager, were your peers traveling internationally for college, or was this unique?

The reason why I pursued my college outside of Taiwan was because I just didn’t fit into the education system there. It’s a highly competitive, exam-based culture. In order to go from junior high to high school, you have to take a national exam. It’s brutal. They only take the top 30% of students for these schools and for the rest of the people it’s: “Good luck!” I couldn’t fit into that system. I did poorly in high school. Therefore, we all knew that there was no chance for me in the college entrance exam.

Basically, there would be no colleges in Taiwan who would let me in because I would be automatically eliminated. Where else could I go? I wanted to pursue art. Really, I wanted to become a painter. New York is an obvious artistic hub. I was late in my applications, so I applied only to SVA. I got in surprisingly. That’s how I got to New York.

What was your first impression of New York City?

It was mesmerizing. The first place that I went to after I got off the plane was Coney Island. My father had two friends, a couple living there, and they took me in. There was, and still is, a very big Russian town there. That was amazing to me—before that I had no idea what Russian culture was like. School was another new thing to me. I had never seen so many different ethnicities all in the same class. That was eye-opening.

Growing up you had career ambitions of being an astronaut, a detective, or, literally, Indiana Jones. What was it about these lines of work?

A sense of adventure, discovery, getting into the unknown, solving a mystery. I think astronauts are very similar to Indiana Jones, in different domains, but I feel that the nature of their work is similar. And I’m still very much drawn to adventurous archeology type of stories.

Prior to Pentagram, you had your own studio, njenworks, and then you joined Pentagram in 2012. Joining Pentagram seems like a no-brainer for just about any designer, but did you ever have any self-doubt about it or question the decision?

It wasn’t a 100%-sure decision for me, to tell the truth, because I had no experience running a business. Even when I was doing my own studio, the scale was so small that I didn’t have any business professional mechanism set up, such as payroll—I was the payroll department. So, there was a lot of self-doubt when I was invited.

First of all, it was just like: “Can I actually live up to the standard of Pentagram?” It was also mysterious to me as to how business is done here. But my partners shared the preliminary revenue numbers that I had to deliver that first year and it was a reasonable number –I was already doing that at my own studio. I thought, “Okay. That’s all right.” That’s how I stepped in.

How does the partnership at Pentagram work?

The structure of the partnership is equal among the partners, and each partner is an independent business center when it comes to their staffing and team’s overhead. However, the entire partnership shares the office’s collective overhead—the rent, utilities, that kind of stuff. It creates this practical support to each business. On an intellectual and philosophical level, the benefit of this model is that it allows each partner the freedom to pursue what they want, while also being able to draw upon the collective experience and wisdom of the other partners. The partnership creates a self-disciplined culture where you understand that you are a part of a larger ecosystem, and that your business actually matters to the rest of your partners.

Why is it important for creatives to have a strong understanding of the business side of the design business?

Having experience with your own business helps you to better relate to your clients’ businesses. You can feel their pain points and see the struggles, and you may be able to contribute some thinking beyond the design that may help their business.

How much of your time today is spent designing and how much is spent on project management, client relations, and business operations?

Design-wise, actually I don’t design on a computer anymore. But I’m very involved with the design process alongside my designers. The majority of my time, say 70%, is dedicated to designing the business, how the team works, and client relationships. I see this as a kind of design, but it’s very different from thinking about typography, for example.

What criteria do you use to evaluate which clients you want to take on?

Two things: Our personal interest in a particular subject matter or the problem and budget; if we can actually meet our budget. Pentagram doesn’t have strict criteria regarding qualifying new business the way that a traditional agency does, so I tend to follow my gut.

Where do you look for stories, for ideas?

There are cult magazines or websites that I occasionally visit. Not at the office because people would be at my door wondering, “What is she looking at? Alien stuff again?” I’m on Netflix a lot. In recent years, we’ve had several thought-provoking sci-fi films, from Prometheus to the Alien remake and now the Blade Runner remake. Sci-fi touches on a lot of the issues—technological, moral, environmental, cultural, geo-political—that we’re facing today, but ultimately it’s about what makes humans human.

Are there any cardinal rules to the Natasha Jen school of design?

I can’t stand line breaks shorter than, every 4-5 words Like the way this sentence is designed.

A recent news article reported that the pastel-colored, minimalist packaging redesign you did for Brooklyn ice cream brand Van Leeuwen—which allows the pints to stand out in an aisle of pints that look similar—has contributed to a 200% uptick in sales. Can design really sell more ice cream?

Design can sell anything. Design can also destroy everything. Design is this double-edged sword.

To what degree does Taiwanese culture influence your design perspective and work?

It’s a very interesting question. I haven’t gotten that resolved yet. Taiwan is primarily Chinese culture; the language is Mandarin. And you’re constantly exposed to the 5,000-year-old history, always. Then Taiwan is also a former Japanese colony. Therefore, there’s a lot of residual Japanese stuff in the culture, from comic books to magazines to TV shows. I grew up with the intertwined nature of these two cultures. Taiwan is dense and has a lot of energy, but it’s not the most visually beautiful place. That environment does affect my sensibility because I gravitate toward something that has a vibrancy and density to it, but not necessarily visually busy.

Then I learned my entire design language and knowledge here in America—the knowledge I have about design is actually, primarily, a Western design thinking and philosophy. These two manifest in my work. I don’t know which one is influencing the other, but I think that on a surface level, you actually don’t see any kind of Chinese or Asian influence at all, unless there is a project that actually has that cultural background. Then you see that, Oh yeah, whoever designed this knows what she’s talking about.

What impact has New York City had on your work?

There is a kind of ambition that is unique to New York. You really have to want something in order to be here, and that has been a primary driver to our work. We’ve had experiences where we’ve been on the seventh round of a client revision, and we just keep going. That is a very New York characteristic—you just keep going.

Is there a New York landmark that most designers wouldn’t consider good design but that you love?

The NYC subway.

Wow, you’re taking a stand there. What makes it great in your eyes?

The MTA’s campaign posters and messaging are incredible, especially now that they have started to install digital screens in the cars. These posters for ‘If you see something, say something,’ ‘Do not breakdance in the cars,’ and ‘Don’t pick your phone up if you drop it on the tracks,’ with pictogram-style people. Now all these are becoming animations that I find hilarious, uniquely New York, and inspiring. The MTA deserves a lot more design credit.

I’ve noticed you have a tattoo of a fleuron on your wrist.

This was a kind of mindless and thoughtless decision when I first came to New York. It happened between my first year and second year at SVA. During that summer I got an internship at Eric Baker Design. Eric had a small but wonderful office on 23rd Street. It had an amazing library, but the library was a mess, so my first assignment was to help Eric organize the books. I literally had to go through every book, and categorize it as graphic design, typography, etc. At one point I found this old type specimen book, German Type Specimen Books (Schriftartexemplare), that has different typefaces, from Bodoni to gothic letters.

I was really drawn into the gothic letters, and I saw this one and thought, That’s such a pretty thing. Let me just put it on my body. So I Xeroxed the page and took it to a tattoo shop in the East Village. There’s no concept or meaning in it. It just marked a time that I was working with Eric, going through a library, and found this book. I got another one on my ankle of my initial “N,” from the same book. Growing up in Taiwan, I had never seen Gothic letters before and I started scanning a bunch of them and using them in my school assignments. Using this incredible library was the biggest benefit I got from working for Eric, and you will see a lot of stuff from the book everywhere in my life.

Including on your person.

Exactly.

You came to New York at a relatively young age, and you’ve built a strong career. Of course intellect, instinct, and ability all contribute to this, but what about on the personal character side of things? Was there a defining life moment that helped you develop the drive and perseverance necessary for success?

I remember one summer, my second summer in New York, where my father passed away, and I was broke. I had no kind of money or any skill whatsoever. And then a friend at school, who was also from Taiwan, said he knew about this city bus tour for Chinese tourists. It’s an all-day activity, and the tour company was looking for guides to describe the different New York landmarks—Wall Street, Central Park, the UN Building. He said I might get tips depending on how well I did. It sounded interesting, so I thought I would try it. Of course, I had no knowledge about any of these places; I hadn’t even been to most of them. So I went to Barnes & Noble the day before I started working and got two books on New York and memorized everything. The next day I got on the bus and guided tours for the whole summer. I actually made good money. You just figure it out.

*Pentagram has since moved to Park Avenue.