#bucky's disability meta

[amarriageoftrueminds]

#of course it is easier for Marvel to assimilate the idea that a woman is a victim #even when a woman is the perpetrator she is not seen and judged as the “bad guy” as much as a man would be #as in the case of Wanda whose crimes and abuses are excused on the basis of her pain and loneliness #again it is very easy to accept the idea of a woman being the “victim” of the situation #but what happens when it is a man who lost his agency and was subjected to the will of a third party? #this is an automatic “NO” #because a man can't not be in control of the situation #a man “always takes responsibility for his actions” #i think this… this is precisely the “problem” Marvel has with Bucky… #that as a man “he must be held accountable for his actions” #ACTIONS OVER WHICH HE DID NOT HAVE THE REMOTEST CONTROL BECAUSE HIS CONSCIENCE DID NOT EVEN EXIST! #but for marvel this is not important… #he should be held accountable for his actions because “that's what men do” right? #but wait… then what about Clint and Erik? they are men too… #it seems that literally everyone can be excused and recognized as a victim… #everyone but the only one who lost his identity. the only one who was enslaved and tortured for decades #the only one who suffers irreparable brain damage. the only one amputee. the only one disabled #thinking about it… is ableism the real problem? #or is it just the most vile and blatant case of dislike that a company holds for its own character that has ever been? #whatever the “reason”… absolutely nothing excuses the abominable injustice to which marvel has subjected Bucky literally since forever #the bastards even said they don't think Bucky deserves to be happy!! #i really have no words for this…. #literally the longest suffering victim ever #who has been most mistreated and scorned by the industry that created him… #i just… ahhhhhhhhh!!! #anti victim blaming #anti ableism

RE: the intersection of this with ableism:

Bucky and Antonia are both permanently disabled during the catalyst incident which begins their imprisonment and mind-control...

But only Bucky is blamed for what he did under said mind-control.

I have noticed that the creators starting to blame Thor for things too (ie. blaming Thor for not killing Thanos) happens to coincide with Thor becoming permanently disabled (losing his eye).

And Clint becoming deaf also coincides with him having to face consequences (not for something he did under mind-control, of course, but for the voluntary crimes he committed during the Snap.)

So maybe their unique disgust of Bucky is motivated both by disgust of a male character being a passive/non-agentic victim (further non-agentic in the sense of having his personality taken from him too; unlike Erik, Clint, etc.), and disgust at disability? 🤔

It's like they think they're doing him a favour by implying he was agentic and to blame -- they think they're making him more Manly and Therefore improved. 🤮

🤡 Markus and McFeely 🤡: “Yeah, Bucky’s just a POW who had his entire agency explicitly removed in not one but TWO ways but he’s for sure guilty because we don’t want him to have fruit salads with Steve”

[luna-rainbow]

The shield-bearer vs the gun-wielder

(Unmarked GIFs are credited to @lost-shoe - miss you 😭)

One frequent interpretation of the Steve-Bucky dichotomy sees Steve as the protector and defender with the shield, while Bucky is the aggressor and assailant wielding a gun or knife or even his metal arm. It's hard to shake that impression when we remember just how savage Bucky can be as the Winter Soldier, whereas Steve notably did not carry a weapon after CATFA. Promotional stills where they appear together reinforce that image, with Bucky often appearing with an offensive weapon (or holding his arm up offensively) while Steve holds his shield defensively.

But the picture of Bucky stepping in front of Karpov made me rethink. Despite Bucky's loss at the new super soldiers' hands a moment before, he is remarkably restrained in what he does as he leads Karpov out of the cage. I am not against the meta that suggested he gained some satisfaction at striking back at the new super soldiers, but he stuck to his goal of guarding Karpov instead of getting swept up in the adrenaline and joining the brawl - as other guards in the background did.

Bucky is a protector. I know there are already lots of meta about this: from the moment we meet him in the back alley, Bucky is using himself as a human shield between Steve and the bully. He puts himself at Steve's back when he's rescued from the Hydra facility and he picks up the shield to protect Steve on the train. Even that one scene of Bucky being a sniper in CATFA, he shot the enemy to protect Steve. As Bucky, his acts of aggression happens when he's protecting someone (usually Steve).

So it's interesting to re-examine the violence in CATWS. Yes, Bucky/Winter Soldier is capable of extraordinary ferocity in taking down Fury and Steve and Nat, but he's also someone who sits there placidly when Pierce's maid startles them. Proactive attack isn't his instinctual state - and that becomes clearer when we see more of Bucky in CACW. He waits until violence is upon him before he retaliates: whether in Bucharest, or in the German airport, or finally in Siberia with Tony.

And on reflection, even in this climactic CATWS scene, the visuals are consistent with Bucky’s modus operandi — he is placing himself as a human shield between his enemy (Steve) and what he needs to guard (the Helicarrier behind him). The trail of destruction he leaves behind on his way onto the Helicarrier is frank reminder of how capable of violence he is, but this moment on the bridge holds a curious stillness. He is waiting, but not as a predator waiting for his prey, but rather like a lone guard’s final stand against inevitable doom. And perhaps — his aim was never on taking the most number of lives on the airfield, it was to disperse and disable anyone who might interfere with the Helicarrier’s launch.

Bucky's focus during the first part of the fight with Steve seems to be more on the drive Steve is carrying rather than on killing Steve. Killing Steve only comes after the Helicarriers fail (which begs the question: was Bucky specifically instructed to stop Steve without killing him and then kill him afterwards, or did Bucky have enough presence of mind to hold back for as long as he could?) Even as the Winter Soldier, Bucky seems most in his element when protecting something behind him.

On the converse, we have Steve, whose symbol is the shield, and I think it misleads (maybe even intentionally on Steve's part) the audience and his enemies into thinking that Steve's strong point is defence.

But it's not. I wouldn't call Steve an aggressor (and I'm not a huge fan of the angry chihuahua fanon), but he is far more proactive in his actions and a lot more aggressive in his attacks than the shield might suggest.

Even this memorable image, which seems to suggest Steve is on the defense against Bucky's raging attack is actually the opposite -- Steve is rushing Bucky from the side, and Bucky's punch serves to stop Steve in his tracks (i.e. it’s Bucky's self-defense against Steve's attack).

Our first meeting with Steve establishes him as a challenger - he challenges the recruitment rules, he challenges the disrespectful guy in the cinema, he challenges Colonel Philips and Hydra and the Red Skull - and eventually, he goes on to challenge Loki and Tony and Fury and Pierce and SHIELD in the modern world.

We don't see Steve carrying a weapon in the modern era (except for maybe brief moments of him using a weapon in Avengers) and it's easy, for the audience but also for Steve’s enemies, to forget that Steve uses the shield as an offensive weapon. Sure, it serves its function as an actual shield, but Steve hurls it as a projectile weapon intended to incapacitate so many times I won't be able to list them all so I'll just let this picture speak for itself.

Even at their first reunion, Bucky is running away to avoid a confrontation with the witness (Steve) while Steve is chasing after him to confront the sniper.

And I think this describes their different traits to a tee - Steve is like the bloodhound with a keen nose for trouble and doesn’t rest until he’s chased it down, while Bucky is like the guard dog who patiently sits by his family until commanded to fight or provoked. That's not to say Steve is always picking fights, but rather he's got an intuitive awareness of where the source of the conflict is and has no qualms putting himself into the fray. It’s also not to say that Bucky is always avoidant or apathetic, but rather he tends to watch and wait unless it threatens those he cares about...and that is probably deserving of its own meta to discuss how their separate upbringings make Steve and Bucky different in their confrontation readiness.

"I thought you were more than just a shield," Batroc says, so Steve clips his shield back on his harness and dukes it out with his fists.

Of course Steve is more than his shield, because the shield is just a piece of disguise for who Steve Rogers really is - someone who's always assessing the world around him (rather than hiding behind the shield) and ready to challenge the injustices (rather than waiting for the fight to come to him).

The real dichotomy between Steve and Bucky is that Steve is a natural challenger, who first picks up the shield to help him undertake a single-man offence on a Hydra base. When he wakes up in the modern world and sees that the imagery of the shield is entrenched with his identity, he uses that symbol to mask his fiery defiance while turning the shield itself into a weapon that works both in offense and defence. Bucky is a natural protector, who had picked up fighting and later weapons for defence and self-defence. Hydra then turned his loyal temperament and his skill set into “the fist of Hydra” - capable of both protection and targeted destruction.

They seem to have chosen (or been assigned) a weapon that is opposite to their instincts, but it’s also why they work so well together as a unit. Steve's convictions and idealism give Bucky the impetus to take up arms, and Bucky's constancy and protection give Steve the confidence to forge ahead.

The man who attacks injustices with a shield, and at his back, the man who defends him with a gun.

[mirrorthoughts]

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Tagged by the lovely @lucky-bishop, thanks!! 💖

favorite color: I do love autumn colors. Though I'm also partial to green and blue xD

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[mj-irl]

[image description: Sebastian Stan as Bucky Barnes, is stepping out of a Wakandian home. He is wearing a red Wakandian robe and a blue wrap. He is looking to his right and around.]

Autistic Bucky Barnes in Wakanda

When he wakes up there are lots of new things to see, new smells and sounds to get used to. It is overwhelming.

Even when the people around him speak English different accents, sayings and body language than he is familiar with means his auditory processing and his ability to follow a conversation is compromised. Some days are worse than others.

People he Interacted with were very understanding, knowing that he was recovering from being brainwashed, so they gave him a lot of leeway when talking with him. He didn’t have to work so hard to keep up the appearance of being neurotypical, no one expected that from him

He gradually got acclimated to the new place and people and languages and really grew to love it in Wakanda

[image description: Sebastian Stan as Bucky Barnes in the MCU stands with his back to the camera, he wears Wakandian clothing. He looks over a peaceful lake and trees in the sunlight.]

He found the technology exciting and wanted to learn as much as he could as fast as he could

He was allowed time and space to be alone when he was overwhelmed

He found sitting at a fire is a good multiple sensory experience.

[Image description: Sebastian Stan as Bucky Barnes in the MCU is in the center of the picture. We see him through the flames in the foreground as he stares at a fire.]

People, including Shuri, Ayo, and T’Challa gave him a lot of space when he needed it and help when he needed it.

He really liked the sound of the languages people spoke, he listen to people talking and would repeat sounds, the words felt good to form with his mouth parts

He appreciated when people were patient with him while he was learning to speak some Xhosa, this was a new experience because when he was growing up he was expected to just spit out what he was trying to say or be quiet because ‘children are seen and not heard’ and then as the Winter Soldier he was expected mostly to not speak.

[Image description: Sebastian Stan as Bucky Barnes in the MCU dressed in Wakandian clothing walks from left to right. We see him from a distance in what looks like a Wakandian village.]

Being out in nature like he never was before, not growing up in the city, not during the war, was very grounding for him, there wasn’t constant anxiety or an assault on his senses

caring for animals and doing farm work had a routine that was satisfying

[Image description: Sebastian Stan as Bucky Barnes in the MCU is wearing tan work clothing and a Wakandian wrap over his shoulder. We see him from a distance as he does farm work in a field with some cows, goats and two Wakanians looking on.]

A lot about being in Wakanda was good for Bucky

[Image Description: Sebastian Stan as Bucky Barnes in the MCU stands in a field with trees in the distance. He wears tan work clothes and a Wakandian wrap around his shoulder. He looks down and the camera pans down at his new Wakandian Arm laid in front of him in a case.]

Autistic Bucky posts [1] [2] [3] [4]

For @marveldisabilitycelebration

[cblgblog]

I’m not gonna lie the major thing that bothered me was when they took Bucky’s arm. Bucky was 100% an asshole don’t get me wrong but that scene read to me as though they were stripping him of his autonomy. At the end of the day Bucky is disabled and his arm is a prosthetic, a powerful one? Yes, but still a prosthetic. If they were so worried why wouldn’t they give him a regular prosthetic? It also rubs me the wrong way that they’re so willingly and accepting taking someone’s prosthetic away from someone they gave it to and betraying them and showing that they have control over his body and prosthetic. I’m not gonna lie, I stopped watching after that. I kept up online about what Sam was up to because I love him, but the fandoms willingness to think it’s ok to take a person with a disabilities arm away was alarming. Especially, the memes of people joking about Bucky not having an arm. I may be more sensitive to this as someone who has studied about people with disabilities but it’s still something that bothers me about the series. I feel like taking away a prosthetic from someone is just downright horrible even if they’re being an asshole. It made me wonder if Bucky after that actually trusts his arm and his autonomy. I’m not sure if people will agree with me but idk taking someone’s prosthetic away rubs me the wrong way, mistake or not, that’s Bucky’s arm. I mean is he going’s to have to constantly earn the right to his prosthetic with the thought of it being taken away?

Tbh, the fandom at that particular moment is what pushed me to get out of the MCU. The people were showing that they didn’t actually care about disability rights and it’s just a joke to them. I mean it’s obviously different circumstances but what if a kid with a prosthetic watched that scene is now terrified that someone is going to take it away from them? Let alone see that people think it’s funny not to have an arm and for someone to take it away.

Like I said Bucky was an asshole and was super shitty, but I hated how they wrote that. They could have done so many other things that take his arm.

Sorry for the rant!! I was kinda curious as to what you thought.

Yeah, I'm not gonna lie, I didn't view it the same exact way you did, but I do see your points and think they're valid.

So, here's the thing. I'm disabled, but not in a way that requires a prosthetic. Most I ever had to use was a walker when I was little, and then leg braces until I was like 14. So, I'm in a kind of weird place where I can look at it from a certain kind of disabled perspective, but I'm in no way counting my experience as being the same as someone who has a prosthetic, or a disability that's vastly different from mine.

Not gonna lie here either, I've laughed at those arm memes. I also get why people would be offended by them. I say that I laughed at them because if I don't admit that, someone is going to scroll through my entire trash fire of a Tumblr to find proof that I'm a hypocrite. So yeah, straight up, I've laughed at those jokes, I still would probably laugh if I saw them again, but I recognize that it's iffy at best, problematic at worst. I did not catch the full implications previously.

I think that it bothered me less at the time because they didn't "really" take it. Quotation marks because yes, they did remove it, but they didn't take it with them before they left and leave him armless the rest of the ep. Distinction without a difference? Probably, I'm just explaining why my brain didn't ping on it so much at the time. They didn't take back the thing they gave him out of spite, they temporarily removed it. Was it a dickish way to make a point, on giving it a second look? Absolutely. It was an absolutely dickish way to assert control.

I don't, however, think it explains Bucky's behavior towards Ayo, at least not entirely. He was a dick to her before that. He was dismissive of her concerns before that, which I still cannot find a reasonable, canonical explanation for. So it can't just be the arm, because he was all, I need Zemo, get of my back about it before the arm was removed.

That said, given Bucky's history of having his autonomy removed, I could definitely see why the arm thing would've made things worse, not better, which is an angle I hadn't considered before, so thank you for that.

My final caveat would be that I don't give the writers enough credit to have seen that either. I think your explanation fits partly, like I said, but I don't think that team were smart or sensitive enough to have factored it in themselves. Could be wrong, I have no evidence one way or another, it's just my guess based on how they wrote the rest of the show.

Regardless, thank you again, I had not considered that angle, I appreciate you bringing it up.

[angelictroublemaker]

Please read my thoughts about Bucky, Disability, and ethics in episode 4 of the Falcon and the Winter Soldier!

https://sasha-feather.dreamwidth.org/1254507.html

[amarriageoftrueminds]

taken out of tags cuz it got too long 😅

I've got a meta knocking about somewhere which goes into the tension that there was between the Irish and the Jews in NYC around this time; big enough to make it into the pop culture, even!

Steve being Irish and going to bat for the Antifa side, while Ireland is neutral and Irish-Americans are actively talking pro-Nazi shit about the war... If you wanted to go with real historical context that would demonstrate scoliosis Steve's Serious Backbone, that he's got no problem going against his own people in the name of doing what's right.

Also you KNOW as soon as modern conservatives heard Steve's takes they'd be like 'omg the woke mob got to Captain Murica and brainwashed him into a Communist with pronouns this is so evil!!' 😭

And Steve would have to lecture them all about 'actually son they didn't invent any of these values I always had.'

just *CATFA support of Steve's decency: 

Raised by single mother = drinks his seeing-women-as-equals juice 

(on the road with 40+ chorus girls for 4 months + 0 problems + takes it amiss when someone uses that term as an insult?? = this man is definitely pro-sex worker).

Formerly multiply disabled / refused to lie about it to get into the army = disability rights activism praxis, probably pro free universal healthcare. 

Lives below poverty line + uses trashcan lid and repurposed taxi door? = Pro Recycling.* 

Refuses to work in a factory and goes into overdrive to save other men from being trapped in a Nazi factory where they’re going to be worked to death = Labour Rights Activist/aware of the urgent dangers when snooty upper class WASPs around him aren't. 

Wears a woman’s helmet to go and fight Nazis = Clearly Pro Crossdressing /Genderfluid expression, possible Trans Ally??

No problem with Erskine who is an immigrant / happy to let him practise medicine on him personally = pro Immigrants. 

Called both a gay slur and a gay slang term (doesn't recoil in horror/is besties with Bucky Barnes so yes he's an Ally. 👀) 

Chooses to lead a diverse/de-segregated team (including a Japanese man when they were being interned at home) when explicitly given the choice to take his white CO's picks instead, no problem believing Fury is in charge when he wakes up in the future = BLM. 

Poor + Rocky relationship with Merchant of Death = #Eattherich

Literally introduced breaking the law at great personal risk and we’re told it ain’t even his first rodeo (also seen worrying about MPs after seeing a poster warning of the consequences of breaking the law) = ACAB. 

Takes trunk full of books to a war camp, barges into US Colonel’s Command Tent demanding information, knows about newspaper stories and films on himself but seems embarrassed = Pro-Freedom of the Press and Information but Ugh he is so sick of people throwing roses at his feet when he walks by?? 🙏#superhumble. 

Treats official US Army orders as Mild Suggestions when other soldiers’ lives are on the line, doesn’t want to kill anybody he just doesn’t like bullies = Anti-US Military Industrial Complex (see: both other Cap movies.)

blows off a Senator wanting to give him a medal for valour at the White House to focus on hunting Nazis in Europe instead = Antifa, he’s just here to fuck up Nazis + Authorities Generally.

*sadly he does need to work on his littering habits after he dumped all those Nazi nukes and the Tesseract in the ocean at the end. 😔

steve rogers: pr disaster | gen | 4k

(someone asked about the full version of this, so here u go)

“Wait,” says Sam, “you had a publicist?”

“For my first five months at S.H.I.E.L.D,” says Steve. “Then she quit. Uh, decisively.”

“Well yeah, she had to keep you in line,” Bucky says with a half-smirk. “How many times did you make that poor lady want to sock you in the face?”

“Lost count,” Steve admits. “I did offer to let her, once. Seemed fair.”

Sam laughs. “I feel like you’re sitting on a story here.”

“There’s no story,” Steve tells him. Sam raises his eyebrows. Bucky’s half-smirk tilts towards a full smirk. “Seriously,” Steve repeats, “no story.”

Interlude: The Story of Steve “Walking PR Nightmare” Rogers, and How For a Short While He Single-Handedly Destroyed the Emotional Health of Eva Laura Ortiz, His Now Ex-Publicist

Keep reading

[urcadelimabean]

Disability in the MCU, when it is portrayed often falls into the trope of "this character totally "overcame" their disability!" Or their disability is portrayed in such a way that it completely undermines any effect it actually has on their life. I feel like that says a lot about how we view superheroes as ideal physical bodies without disability or where the lived experience of disability is erased.

Bucky: his prosthetic arm gives him super strength, it takes a while for the MCU to even show him without the prosthetic and doesn't explore what his lived experience is at all. in fact at the beginning it plays into him being a villain.

Thor: his prosthetic eye is treated as a joke

Steve Rogers: all disabilities are promptly erased for him to become a superhero and not mentioned again

Natasha: disability erased from the comics, inability to have children directly used to set up why she should sacrifice her life since she can't have a biological family

Clint: disability erased from the comics

Rhodey: barely any screentime given to hearing his experience

Tony Stark fares a bit better considering we actually see the negative effects the arc reactor has on his life (as well as the ptsd) but only slightly.

Tldr: marvel could do a lot better to explore characters' disabilities and stop erasing existing ones. The message that you have to be able bodied, or have superhuman prostethics that make disability all but invisible in the storyline, is pretty damn strong. Don't even get me started on scars and disfigurement being used to denote evil, create shock value, or being quickly covered up as much as possible.

It's ironic because superhero films as a genre really should be able to successfully address disability given how injured characters' bodies are likely to become, given how superpowers are usually given through some insane physical trauma.

Any I'm forgetting?

[buckyistired]

This gif contradicts a lot of fics I’ve read where Bucky considers his arm a deadly weapon, what makes him monstrous, etc etc. Look at the very human, nervous, exasperated gesture of him twiddling his thumbs. This is muscle memory, comfort, a completely natural and biological human response. This scene and the plum/market scene really showed the softer, more elusive side of Bucky’s physical presence. Bucky’s arm is part of him, as it should be. He is a disabled character with an advanced cybernetic prosthetic. Which, you know, makes the ending of civil war and the fact that he was farming one-armed even harder to watch. It must have hurt like hell to lose his arm…twice.

[luna-rainbow]

CATWS and its building of stakes

Part of the reason why CATWS was so memorable in its appeal was the way it built the stakes throughout the story. Each of the major characters had something(s) at stake by the final act, and that was pivotal for the plot to sustain its tension and for the satisfaction in its final payoff.

The overarching conflict was the global, existential threat of Hydra getting their mass murder machine up in the air, and the ideological question of what the middle ground between freedom and security should be. But what made the final act so moving was the intimately personal stakes for many of our characters.

There was, obviously, the very personal stake Steve had to surmount in having to physically get through Bucky in order to protect the freedom he was advocating for. But apart from Steve, every other major character was challenged with a personal sacrifice in the final showdown. Nat was faced with having all her covers blown and her past - that she had tried so hard to hide - revealed to the world. Sam was confronted with going back into the field after losing his partner so traumatically that he changed careers. Fury was grappling with dismantling the organisation that he had devoted his life to build. And on the other side, Pierce and Rumlow had invested decades of their lives in an ideology which if successful would install them at the top of the food chain.

There was a great meta from years back talking about how well the movie established the competencies of the characters before introducing threats -- and how we were then able to quickly understand the threat because of how competent we have seen our protagonists be. Every action sequence served a purpose and built upon the previous one.

The Lumerian Star sequence was fantastic in how effectively it established the competence of not just Steve and Nat, but the entire Strike team. Rumlow and Rollins were good at their job; they're not super soldiers or super spies, sure, but they were skilled enough to keep pace with Steve and Nat.

This was an important foreword for the elevator fight, which itself was a pre-requisite for the Causeway fight. We have seen both Steve and the Strike team capable of taking down multiple pirates swiftly, so when the elevator fight started, there was a genuine sense of threat to Steve, even if he would make a quick job of disabling them. Then, after seeing Steve's skills against a very capable Strike team, it became all the more terrifying when the Winter Soldier almost nailed him to a van about 2 minutes into their fight.

On the other side, the Winter Soldier's introduction was an assemblage of horror story tropes -- of unexpected manifestations and impossible disappearances, and urban myths stretching back through half a century. The two characters used to introduce him were extremely competent from what we had seen of them. There's Fury, normally prescient and wily, scraping by a very determined assassination attempt, only to be stopped by the Winter Soldier materialising in the middle of the road...which he escaped, only to be later shot through the wall. There's Nat, normally cunning and cautious, telling Steve of how the Winter Soldier successfully ambushed her, of how his kills spanned 50 years, a logical improbability.

Not only was Steve about to meet the Winter Soldier with the weight of these legends behind him, from the vantage point of Hydra, they were sending out the Asset to meet Captain America with his historical legends behind him (oh look, another narrative parallel). All of this build-up culminated in the Causeway fight. The technical impressiveness of the stunts aside, part of why that fight worked so well was because we have had all these story beats that showed us how capable Steve and the Winter Soldier were, then we see them both genuinely struggle to overcome the other.

We can't talk about the final fight without talking about the emotional stakes, and we can't talk about the emotional stakes without discussing what Bucky means to Steve. We already had the "not without you" and the "I'm following the little guy from Brooklyn"; we've also had the "I don't want to kill anyone" turn into "I'm not going to stop until all of Hydra is dead" and the "I'm just a kid from Brooklyn" callback. This movie added the "even when I had nothing I had Bucky" and the "I knew him" and the "he will (know me)" and of course the "end of the line" exchanges.

But there were also more subtle cues -- that came from Steve's frequent rebuff of Nat's suggestions for companionship, the string of betrayals Steve had to grapple with, and Steve's lamentations of guilt and regret and uncertainty. Steve could not deny that he was lonely, but he had 101 excuses for why he could not make new connections. Steve did not know what he's looking for or why he's fighting or how long he wanted to continue, until he found out what was behind SHIELD and, specifically, what Hydra had done with Bucky.

Even removing the shipping angle, the final showdown between Steve and Bucky was unique in superhero movies, even for a friend-turned-enemy battle. It was not like the fight between Tony Stark and Obadiah Stane, or Peter Parker and Harry Osborne, or even Thor and Loki or Charles and Erik -- because there was no ideological divide between Steve and Bucky. Bucky did not and could not believe in the cause he's fighting for - he simply did not have that capacity for choice. The ideological battle was carried by the other characters - between Fury and Nat vs Pierce, between Sam vs Rumlow, and between the rest of SHIELD vs Hydra.

For Steve, his fight was much purer, dearer, and more heart-rending. The final battle held such emotional significance, not just because he's fighting his best friend, but also because his best friend was an unwilling participant in the circumstances. Bucky was Steve's physical equal, but he's also Steve's shared life experience, his tragically failed mission, his unfulfilled childhood promise, his betrayed faith in SHIELD, and the price that was paid for Hydra to grow under SHIELD's nose. This fight offered closure for all of these narrative and emotional threads.

He was also, once again, Hydra's asking price in exchange for the freedom Steve wanted for the world...and Steve so desperately wanted, this time, for that world to include Bucky.

[mj-irl]

Bucky Barnes from the MCU is Autistic

His Stims

[Image Description: Sebastian Stan as Bucky Barnes in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier catches Captain America’s shield. He is outside in front of trees.]

He likes to flip, throw and catch things.

He can turn anything into a stim toy.

[image description: Sebastian Stan as Bucky Barnes in the Falcon and the Winter Soldier sits on the side of a boat. He’s wearing jeans and a t-shirt and playing with a pant scraper like it’s a knife he’s fight with.]

Likes optically stimming by staring and let his eyes unfocus to see the changes in the light.

[Image Description: Sebastian Stan as Bucky Barnes in the Falcon and the Winter Soldier stares to the right. The gif shifts and shows Anthony Mackie as Sam Wilson staring back at Bucky.]

Likes pressure Stims, weighted blankets and tight hugs.

[Image Description: Sebastian Stan as Bucky Barnes in the Falcon and the Winter Soldier stands with his metal arm out stretched. At least three children hang on his arm. He is talking with Sara Wilson who is sitting at the table on the left.]

Focusing on and the detailed up keep on his metal arm can be stimmy

[image description: Sebastian Stan as Bucky Barnes in the Falcon and the Winter Soldier sits in a private airplane with fancy tan seats. He is using a cloth to clean his metal hand.]

Tries to keep his stimming to himself but Sam is the one person he’s getting comfortable enough to do more noticeable stimming around like: rocking, toe walking, tongue clicking, vocal stims/echolalia

[Image Description: Anthony Mackie as Sam Wilson and Sebastian Stan as Bucky Barnes in the Falcon and the Winter Soldier clasp hands and look at one another. They are in casual clothing standing in front of a tree wrapped in padding that they’ve been throwing the shield at.]

Autistic Bucky Posts [1] [2] [4] [5]

For @marveldisabilitycelebration

[aimmyarrowshigh]

you don't have to answer this if you don't want to, but i've seen you post and reblog some Peggy Carter-critical meta before, all of which makes sense and is super intriguing! I was wondering if you knew of any fic that addresses those issues of her character (ie working with n*zis, maybe knowing about winter soldier program, etc) instead of treating her as the Perfect Woman?

Ooh, good question! And sorry this took me a few days to answer.

In terms of actual fic and not meta, I really haven't seen any that deals with Peggy as a collaborator! I tend to read either older fics (CATWS-era) that have Peggy as the Unassailable Femme Force Of Nature In Steve's Memory And An Elderly Dementia Patient Now, or I read stuff that doesn't have her as a character. I really only see her as a young character in stuff that is WWII-era, and people don't tend to write about how Project Rebirth was straight-up eugenics because that makes being a Captain America fan sort of dicey when you think about it too much. (Myself included.) I've never read anything that took place while she was the active director of SHIELD.

I've written a few drabbles myself that deal with Peggy's role as a eugenicist with the SSR or as fully knowing about the Winter Soldier Project/HYDRA-in-SHIELD, but those are just drabbles. Even *IF* she didn't know about Bucky, she sure as shit knew about the North Institute experiments (Black Widow movie) and she sure as shit knew about Ava Starr, so... ::shruggie::

I would love -- LOVE -- to read someone take on Steve, with his eidetic memory and speedreading capability, read the full Hydra-in-Shield file dump that Natasha did and have to fully reckon with how culpable Peggy was in her collaboration with Nazis/Hydra/the Red Room/the KGB AND have to finally reckon with his own origin as the subject of a eugenics experiment, chosen less because he was a good man and more because no one would miss him if he died like all of the other test subjects.

I believe that Erskine saw Steve as a good man. I don't believe that Peggy or Phillips or Stark cared whether he was a good man or not. But I believe that STEVE has always cared about that being why he was chosen, although I don't think Steve was naive -- he grew up disabled during the height of the American eugenics movement, he would have known a eugenics experiment when it was explained to him. And he chose to be the guinea pig anyway. And I would love to see that explored more.

Also: what the fuck were Eugenics Project Coordinator Peggy's thoughts on Morita and Gabe and (Jewish) Bucky being part of the Howling Commandos? Because I can't imagine she was HAPPY about it. Like, I think there are some pretty good reasons we never see her interact with them. (IIRC in Agent Carter, she interacts with Dum-Dum, but Dum-Dum is very much not Japanese, Black, or Jewish, so.)

(ALSO WHERE THE FUCK WAS HOWARD GOING WITH ALL THAT SUPER SERUM WHEN HE AND MARIA WERE KILLED. WHERE.)

[merrysithmas]

The good thing abt Steve and smth ppl are missing in the current discourse is he really did say Fuck America literally every chance he got and criticized the US govt every second he wore the suit and the govt absolutely hated him for it.

Even in the 40s he didnt want to kill anyone "for America", but as a disabled man couldn't fathom not standing up to the eugenicist Nazis. He wasn't politically motivated by nationalism but instead by human compassion. In fact, it is extremely likely he was highly critical of the US govt as a young man preserum given his impoverished life circumstances and constantly failing health. Living in NYC, seeing the shanty towns in Central Park, unable to afford life-saving medicine, watching Bucky and his mother kill themselves to make a nickle, surrounded by the radical leftist art scene in NY as an art student - Steve saw and lived injustice every day. And empathized with people who suffered different social misfortunes than he did (the woman crying in the movie theatre, "I don't like bullies", Peggy suffering sexism) although his personal list was extensive itself.

To him, the shield was always more of a philosophy and never attached to a specific country, which is what made it so easy for him to blow off 117 countries for Bucky, or tear the star from his chest yet defend the world in the vestiges of his armor against Thanos - he was fighting for what was right and not what was dictated by any country or political ideology (which is the main issue in Civil War with him being against the Accords, and one he was extremely well-positioned to understand having been used as a symbol and propaganda against his will many times, and having witnessed the dangers of state-sanctioned violence in WWII and CATWS. Even if Steve's argument was also faulty to an extent, you can absolutely see why he would argue for that perspective).

Steve was as FDR leftist artist in the Great Depression post Crash 1930s, disabled and chronically ill, diminutive and likely targeted by US eugenicits in NYC who vocally campaigned against disabled people being alive in the 30s (saying they should be sterilized or killed), son of an Irish immigrant single mother, lived in historically queer neighborhood of Brooklyn, an artist, and in the MCU coded as bi. He fights for whoever needs him, not for whoever tells him to. He was always highly critical and tongue-in-cheek/tired of the costume, drawing himself as the dancing monkey in CATFA ("Ready to follow 'Captain America' into the jaws of death?" he confides his mockery in Bucky, who heartwarmingly assures him that no, he is following Steve.) Steve continued to question, dog, and make trouble for the US continually after that until he wholeheartedly said Fuck You in CATWS and just dropped the shield (and never picked it up again until he handed it off to Sam, who he was confident could do something meaningful with it that he was not positioned to as a white man).

Steve visibly appears as a bygone era's "perfect man" and outright REJECTS both this supremacist definition and the shield's gatekeeping/the shield itself. Sam visibly appears as an "outsider" to exclusivist and systemically racist systems and yet EMBRACES the shield's potential. They are both radically standing up for the same cause in different ways and this comparison depicts why they are so closely aligned and best friends.

The irony of Steve Rogers as Captain America is hugely important to his character. In many ways, Steve is depicted as a reluctant hero who struggles with the strength of his own moral ideals versus the highly imperfect symbol he dons. This is different from other superheroes who usually self-create their alter egos as symbols of their more perfect, empowered selves.

In contrast, it is Steve's natural hardiness, independence, and righteous outrage in the face of wrongdoing which represents America's best ideals, but distinctly is opposed to its government which directs that he act as its image. As Steve holds the shield we see the image of a person who is critical of the govt for falling short of its principles and simultaneously embodies the ideal qualities that a equitable and free US is supposed to hold. Importantly, and definitively for his character, Steve as Cap shows how wanting the US really is for the goodness it robotically claims to have. And that is why he is important and impactful as Cap, essentially because he is uncomfortable with and critical of the costume.

The status of the suit often does not coincide with his personal beliefs. Yet he wears it to attempt to level up the system he is, for a while, mired in. Steve is not a patriot, not in the common sense of the world, he is instead a patriot of the humanist cause. This puts him on-site for many enemies, including those domestic to him and thus defines him as a hero.

Though his physical appearance suggests that he might wear the suit with a blind nationalist fervor a la John Walker (depicted as a perfect automaton soldier), Steve could not be further from that mindset (a good individualist man). As a now "perfect specimen" poised to be accepted and revered, Steve has the ability to choose an easy life where he is free of the hardships and ostracization he endured preserum. Yet instead, post CACW, Steve chose to continue to stand on the side of progress, the "little guy", to abandon the shield and now finally proudly embrace his pariah status and fight for those pushed aside or deemed unsalvagable or scapegoated (symbolized by Bucky) as he recognizes that while America's rule may benefit some, it still causes other to suffer and struggle (as he once did).

Not to mention, as a meta point, he was crafted as the "perfect man" from a sick, disenfranchised disabled boy who absolutely loathed Nazis by Jewish comic artists to mock the Nazi Aryan ideal - inverting their eugenicist visual image of perfection by empowering someone Nazis would view as worthless to burn their entire evil regime to ash.

He still, today, stands staunchly at odds with far right extremists and fascists in the US today and worldwide. He's the furthest thing from them and he'd have no problem in showing it. Choosing Sam as his successor, proudly, confidently, lovingly, and as a brother in arms who steps back so others can speak for themselves and tell their own stories, Steve shows his cultural and political understanding and his good heart once again - this time as an ally, friend, and a champion of the heroics of others.

[captainwidowspring]

First of all, I do not think that comparing the Siberia scene to Nico's death scene is a fair comparison. The two situations are not really comparable, for they are significantly different, and Steve was dealing with much less challenging circumstances than John was. The most obvious example of this is the fact that Bucky was only injured, whereas Lemar was dead, but there are plenty of others. In fact, I just wrote a meta that went into detail on how the situations are different, as well as what some more comparable examples would be, so to try to keep this from getting super long, I'll just link that: here.

With that there, I'll just address a few specific statements that I took issue with.

"He's no hero he's out for glory. He's all the ego of Stark wrapped in false humility."

This is demonstrably not true. For example, John said to Lemar before his interview, "Don’t get me wrong, this has been great, it’s been great, but it’s been a lot of handshakes, a lot of suits, a lot of speeches, and senator meetings, and I just wanna do the job." This shows that he specifically dislikes all the publicity he's been forced to do. Just like Steve, he resents being forced to be a dancing monkey, he just wants to get out and help people. Also, John consistently tried to work with Sam and Bucky, and even helped them several times, without requiring anything in return. If his only focus was getting glory, he would most likely be trying to do things by himself. And he would probably try to undermine Sam and Bucky instead of helping them, never mind helping them unconditionally. In addition, at the end when Sam was getting all the attention (and was publicly defending the person who killed his best friend), John showed no resentment, nor did he try to attract any attention to himself. Instead, he just let Sam have the Captain America mantle and then quietly walked away, going past all the reporters and government officials. Again, if he was just out for glory, it is quite unlikely that he would leave so discreetly. So there are no indications that John was out for glory, nor is there any evidence that any of the humility he displayed was not genuine.

"Nico was not a significant threat to John Walker at any point."

This is very much not true. Literally just the scene before, Nico had been holding John helpless so that Karli could stab him. Indeed, the only reason Karli wasn't successful was because Lemar intervened. So yes, Nico was very much a significant threat. In fact, the only reason John was able to put up a fight against Nico in the first place was because he had enhanced himself (which he did after Lemar reminded him that they would have been able to save more people in Afghanistan with the serum). Otherwise, Nico probably would have just been able to kill John himself; he wouldn't even have needed Karli's help.

Also, while Nico was not armed, he is a supersoldier. That is a major difference between Siberia and this. In Siberia, since Tony wasn't a supersoldier, all Steve had to do to was disable the suit and Tony was no longer dangerous. But that is not the case for Nico, as being a supersoldier he has enhanced strength and durability and all that. He is just as strong as as John, as we saw in the last scene, so even though he wasn't armed, he was by no means defenseless. And Nico was completely uninjured at the time John knocked him down, so the threat he posed had not decreased at all.

Also, there was no way for John to quickly and easily subdue Nico; even if John managed to knock him out, The Winter Soldier showed that supersoldiers don't remain unconscious for very long. So yes, Nico was still very much a threat, and was hard for John to safely render harmless. And it's worth noting that Siberia would have been a lot different if Tony's enhancements were a part of him, and not an external thing that could be disabled.

"Nico doesn’t do anything aggressive once they are out of the building."

This is also not true. While John is pursuing him, Nico picks up a concrete trash can and hurls it at John. John manages to hit it hard enough with the shield that it disintegrates, but this was not the guaranteed outcome. It would have seriously hurt him if he had not reacted in time, or even if he had just not been strong enough to break it apart. It could also have hurt innocent bystanders if John had been forced to dodge.

Also, you failed to mention that Nico doesn't simply fall down at the base of the statue; he tries to get back up multiple times. The second time John hits him with the shield, he falls over. He then tries to get back up, so John hits him with the shield again. Nico tries to get back up yet again, so finally John puts his foot on Nico's chest to keep him down. It is only then that Nico yells, "It wasn't me!" This is not the behavior of someone who is interested in surrendering, this is the behavior of someone who is terrified that they don't have the upper hand anymore. If Nico had wanted to surrender, he would have stayed down the first time.

"Nico isn’t the one who killed Walker’s friend Lemar, Karli is. . .Walker, like Stark, is after an innocent person who is only associated with the murderer."

Here's the thing though: Nico isn't innocent. While Nico wasn't the one who struck the killing blow against Lemar, he was actively involved in the murder. He is the reason Lemar needed to rescue John in the first place, and he is also the reason that John was unable to defend Lemar from Karli. If Nico hadn't been holding John, none of the subsequent events would have transpired. Nico does therefore hold a measure of responsibility for what happened.

Honestly, saying that Nico isn't responsible for Lemar's death because he didn't personally end Lemar's life, is like saying that the Hydra agent on the train from The First Avenger isn't responsible for Bucky's death because he wasn't the reason that the handlebar Bucky grabbed when he was knocked from the train gave out before Steve could grab him. Even though both people didn't personally kill their respective victim, both were nonetheless instrumental in their deaths.

Thus, saying that Nico occupies Bucky's role is completely inaccurate. Bucky was forced by his Hydra captors to kill the Starks while he was brainwashed, and he couldn't say no even if he wanted to. This is why, despite the fact that he killed them, it actually wasn't his fault. Nico, on the other hand, willingly restrained John with the knowledge that Karli was going to kill him, and he did not release John until after Lemar had been killed. That is why Nico is not innocent, for he did everything he did knowing full well what he was doing, without coercion. And while he didn't strike the killing blow, Lemar's murder was could not have happened without his contributions, so he is not just an associate of the murder, he is an accomplice. Bucky is innocent, while Nico is not.

"While Tony is only pushed to such irrational anger out of (plot contrivance) extreme grief over something that he is blindsided by (because this movie has tenuous continuity with previous films), Walker is shown in many scenes to be this way all the time."

I definitely agree with you that Tony should have already known by that point what had happened to his parents. However, I disagree with the assertion that John was that way all the time. There were a few times that he did get frustrated, but all of those times were completely understandable, like when he yelled at the person who literally spit in his face. Otherwise, he was extremely patient, such as when he tried several times to peacefully talk to the Dora Milaje while they were being nothing but hostile. Indeed, he was probably way more patient than he should have been.

Thus, while for pretty much the whole show the framing did its best to paint John as a terrible person who did not deserve to be Captain America, what was shown was an amazing person who actually earned the Captain America mantle, and did the best he could in the situations he was thrust into.

(And just in case you were not aware, I also wrote a response to the original post you reblogged: here)

Good is not a thing you are. It's a thing you do.

Credit to the original Ms. Marvel comics for that quote

A sentiment that is sadly lost on the current MCU

That quote is perfect 👌

I'm afraid Phase 4's core message is the exact opposite of that. You're good if we frame you as good regardless of your actions. And if we frame you as bad no matter what you do, you will be considered a villain.

Loki is the only one in the series who doesn't do anything wrong, who doesn't commit any crime or who doesn't abuse his power. Mobius and Sylvie murder people and commit awful crimes, but those are swept under the rug while Loki is condemned.

John Walker abuses his power, he murders a surrendering and unarmed man in plain daylight, he's willing to risk the lives of many to get Karli.... but he saves a van. He was "good" all along.

Ikaris betrays his team and kills Ajak but he goes on a tirade about how hard it was for him to know the truth as if Ajak hadn't known it for longer than him and carried the weight with her for years. But hey, he gets a lot of compassion while she gets none. Poor thing, he wasn't all bad.

And sometimes the movies handle things right, like what Wakanda Forever did with Namor, but the fanon misses the point completely and justifies his every action.... surely influenced by the way Marvel is treating a lot of their characters lately.

Dunno, I'd rather have movies that judge actions regardless of 'who is doing what' because that's how you make stories interesting. In the past, Marvel would write imperfect heroes and relatable villains who had a point.... but now the heroes act like villains and the bad guys have more morals than them.... but they're still framed as evil 🤷‍♀️

[moontheoretist]

MCU timeline, if they actually cared about the characters as much as we do:

Phase 1 (setting up the universe)

- Iron Man - Incredible Hulk (+ Bruce’s DID is included and well represented, Hulk is not shown as a monster which cannot control himself so much he hurts everybody around including Betty, in fact he is shown to avoid hurting anybody who isn’t actively shooting at him, Dr Samson and Rick Jones are a must for this origin story, post credit can stay the same) - Hawkeye (includes: his childhood with an abusive father, his brother Bradley, his past in the circus so basically his origin story, his deafness, him being conscripted by SHIELD, and post credit scene with him choosing not to kill Natasha) - Black Widow (includes: her childhood in the Red Room, the fall of USSR and change in Russian politics, KGB being dissolved, Natasha’s breaking of her programming, her leaving the Red Room thanks to meeting Hawkeye, the assassination of Dreykov’s daughter, What Happened in Bucharest, Natasha joining SHIELD, and post credit scene with her taking place of the PA which was supposed to apply to Stark Industries) - Iron Man 2 (+ more info about Howard’s abuse of Tony, Natasha is there, but it’s not her first appearance, and also she isn’t shown as if she knew she was in a movie) - Thor - Captain America: The First Avenger (I think that his stupid behavior in CW is completely set up by his origin story, so I wouldn’t change anything if we wanna have that conflict with him being more concerned about Bucky than literally anything else going on) - Captain Marvel (because her existence makes Fury think about Avengers and explains why Fury wanted to create them in the first place, also action happens mostly on Earth) - Avengers (+ Jane Foster and Darcy are part of the science team and greatly contribute to the plot as scientists, because I am fed up with women being sidelined)

And because Avengers has a post credit with Thanos we should get some movies in space now related to Thanos first, before Iron Man 3.

Phase 2 (we learn about the ultimate badguy)

- Guardians of the Galaxy - Thor: The Dark World (but hopefully better written, + no damselling of Jane) - War Machine (Rhodey’s only movie, Tony is busy doing whatever) - Hawkeye 2 (how Clint dealt with everything which happened during Avengers, how SHIELD agents treated him, introducing his family?, maybe bringing back Barney and showing his relationship with Mockingbird and stuff like those) - Iron Man 3 (without the ableist meta message that all disabled people just wait to become murder machines, but still introducing Extremis) - Black Widow 2 (could be the same story as we got in 2021, introducing Yelena Belova) - Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch (includes: their childhood, how their parents died (Yugoslavia being bombed by NATO, but I doubt Hollywood would ever wanna say it out loud), them growing in orphanage, possibly attending university (universities for citizens in Serbia are free and because Sokovia is based on Serbia, and it is a slavic country we can assume they have that system as well, and there are also social support programs available from both the government and possibly the university as well), the difficulties of a life in which they have to cover their costs of living themselves, because they have no parents, American army stationing in Sokovia, twins getting radicalized, protesting against foreign influences in their country and joining Hydra, experimentation, if they were trained by Hydra to use their powers or not and how were they trained, Sokovia being shown to be normal country instead of breaking apart state which Americans see each time they think about it) - Falcon (Sam’s origin story, his mission in Afghanistan and stuff - I don’t know his origin story, so I dunno what to say here) - Captain America: The Winter Soldier - TV show about the consequences of the movie above. Possibly something akin to Agents of Shield. What happened to the agents, how world reacted to Natasha’s “fuck you”. - Ant-Man (introducing Hank Pym) - Avengers: Age of Ultron (Ultron is Hank Pym’s like in the comics, but in some versions of this Tony helped or provided tech so he still wpuld feel quilty afterwards, + no dying Pietro)

Phase 3 (everything gets complicated, but they prevail)

- Incredible Hulk 2 (what happened to Bruce and Hulk and how they dealt with the idea that Steve literally had his well-being in his ass by inviting Wanda and Pietro to the team, what is going on with Thaddeus Ross and Betty Ross, we meet Jennifer Walters) - Black Panther (different one than the one we got, introduces T'Challa and his family) - Spider-Man: Homecoming (could be earlier, just after Avengers, but *shrugs* this story is written in such a way it is better after Iron Man 3 and Age of Ultron) - Captain Marvel 2 (basically setting up why she didn’t participate in Civil War, my idea was to depower her, but not take her powers away, so she could have some more down to earth stories instead of stories set in space, maybe even explore her alcoholism that way) - Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch 2 (deradicalisation, becoming heroes) - Captain America: Civil War (Accords are better explained, Matt Murdock or Jennifer Walters show up to do exactly that, RAFT is explained as American prison not related to the UN, Steve this time has valid concerns about the Accords, but he still goes ape shit over Bucky, still lies to Tony about his family, because those traits were all set in his origin movie) - The Wasp (Hope’s origin story) - Hawkeye 3 or Hawkeye TV series - Black Widow 3 (something something about Ross hunting her, but Red Room was already taken down, so different story is here instead) - Ant-Man 2 (Wasp is here too, but this is Scott’s movie, previous Ant-Man and The Wasp) - Black Panther 2 (about Kilmonger and T'Challa’s scuffle for the throne) - Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 (didn’t know where to put it, because it is mostly unrelated to any other movies with this story about Ego, but it develops Nebula more, so let’s be here) - Doctor Strange - Thor: Ragnarok (I am not opposed to Planet Hulk, but I am more inclined to not put Bruce into a movie which is supposed to be about Thor and Loki so… more time for Brunhilde) - The Winter Soldier (solo Winter Soldier movie) - Avengers Infinity War/Endgame (it makes no sense to make two movies if we can have one, the snap was used as a plot device more than actual defeat of the Avengers, so it can last less than 5 years and also no time travel which then you have to explain why TVA didn’t put everybody in jail for that, Tony doesn’t die and Carol and some other powerful people (LIKE HULK, Hulk is NOT less powerful than Thanos or fearful or something) take down Thanos instead and Tony finally retires and is left alone by everybody goddammit)

Phase 4 (new era, some heroes retire, others take their place, while different ones just get the grip of whom they truly were all along, and also we get a new ultimate bad guy and possibly set a stage for his defeat) <- this one not really well set up, because we don’t know most of the movies and TV shows which appear in this phase so dunno how to set them.

- Spider-Man: Far From Home - Photon (origin story of Monica Rambeau) - War Machine 2 - WandaVision (or Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch 3, adjusted, so it would not repeat some facts and would only remind about the most important stuff. Also, Pietro lives in this timeline so no Bohner guy lol, he is just insufferable brother-in-law to Vision, and weird uncle to kids) - The Falcon and The Winter Soldier (but with Steve who didn’t go back in time, because there was no going back in time in this timeline, he just finally is learning what accountability is and has to forfeit his shield, because it’s time to retire) - Falcon 2 - Winter Soldier 2 - The Wasp 2 - Loki TV series (Loki survives Thanos and is taken by the TVA, it basically doesn’t force the story to make him quickly develop feelings in the first episode and bypasses that issue, + more Loki Variants, all genderluid and presenting in various ways in the show) - Incredible Hulk 3 (Bruce and Hulk finally start communicating and Hulk becomes gradually smarter, and we meet Bruce’s another alter Grey Hulk and the circus with getting along starts all over again, because Grey Hulk hates Green Hulk xD, is setting up She-Hulk) - Shang-Chi and the Legend of Ten Rings - What If…? TV show - Ms Marvel TV show - Eternals (feels like should be in different phase) - Spider-Man: No Way Home - Doctor Strange: In the Multiverse of Madness - Thor: Love and Thunder (about Mighty Thor - Jane) - Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (about Shuri?) - The Marvels (Captain Marvel 3 basically) - Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quntamania (setting mutiple Kaangs I suppose) - Moonknight TV show - She-Hulk TV show - Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 - Blade (feels like should be in different phase) - Fantastic Four - Avengers (in which they fight Kaang?)

I was going with the idea that every superhero should get at least 3 movies ONLY about them. As of now, I managed to put 3 only for a few, and some were swapped for TV shows instead to fill the place and better show the character and what they’re up to, because TV shows have more hours than movies.

I know there are supposed to be TV shows for Armor Wars, Iron Heart and Secret Wars, but I dunno when, so no idea where to put them.

[luna-rainbow]

Eugenics in the 1930s

Okay wow reading the Eugenics in United States was a trip and a half.

I'm sure other people have done metas of this, so this is more a record for myself for future fic writing.

In summary, because there's a lot of history, the eugenics movement was pretty much the precursor to the Nazi eugenics movement. Unconsented and coerced sterilisations of Black women continued into the 70s.

Just some relevant tidbits to Steve and Bucky's experience:

The 3rd International Eugenics Congress was held in NYC in August 1932, and elected Ernst Rudin as its president - a Swiss-born German psychiatrist who became a strong influence on forced euthanasia programs of the disabled and mentally ill under the Nazi regime.

The movement successfully lobbied for increasingly strict immigration restrictions. The Immigration Act of 1907 added an exclusion for: (Presumably when Sarah immigrated she was negative for TB)

All idiots, imbeciles, feebleminded persons, epileptics, insane persons, and persons who have been insane within five years previous; persons who have had two or more attacks of insanity at any time previously; paupers; persons likely to become a public charge; professional beggars; persons afflicted with tuberculosis or with a loathsome or dangerous contagious disease; persons not comprehended within any of the foregoing excluded classes who are found to be and are certified by the examining surgeon as being mentally or physically defective, such mental or physical defect being of a nature which may affect the ability of such alien to earn a living…

30 states passed laws allowing for compulsory sterilisation of criminals or the disabled.

A 1937 Fortune magazine poll found ~60% of people supported sterilisation of "mental defectives" and criminals, while only 15% opposed both, suggesting this is not an unpopular view at the time.

Because I wanted to understand exactly what views Steve would have been living with at the time, I did some digging and found the published papers from the Eugenics Congress and I'm going to keep it under cut because it's vile ableism of the extreme kind and needs a trigger warning.

To get a sense of truly how arrogant and dehumanising these views were, here's the opening address to the Eugenics Congress by Charles Davenport:

Research on human genetics, as the foundation of eugenics, should be continued. ... We need to know the genetical factors present that favor self control -- inhibition -- or the lack of it. We need to know more about the genetical factor that favors output in music, mathematics, invention, organization and the rest. By a knowledge of the laws of inheritance of these special capacities the chance of breeding them can be increased.

It is probably well that the principles has been established in this country that the fertile marriages of the feeble-minded, and the inheritably insane should be reduced to a minimum.

Eugenics is not interested in death rates any more than it is in birth rates. It is interested only in quality. One may even view with satisfaction the high death rate in an institution for low grade feeble-minded, while one regards as a national disaster the loss of a bold and successful aviator, or even the infant child of exceptional parents.

Any nation will, in the long run, be what the quality of its breeding stock permits it to be (...) Every nation wants to secure for itself its ideals of high quality of manhood. (...) The immigration problem has indeed two aspects on the biological side. (...) Possible biological disharmony arising in the hybrid offspring of people widely unlike genetically; (...) the other aspect of immigration is that of a clash of instincts in groups with unlike temperaments and mores. (...) While there are apparent dangers in the free mixture of very dissimilar races, we have reason to look for certain advantageous consequences of out-breeding, providing the breeds be not extreme.

Can we by eugenical studies point the way to produce the superman and the superstate? Progress will come slowly. (...) But I think we are justified in having faith that the future will bring precise knowledge in human biology, and education will establish the desired mores.

The load of nauseating drivel encapsulates the astounding narcissism of a group of people believing it entirely within their rights to dictate what kind of people are worthy of living and "breeding", dressed up with very faulty science. The super soldier experiment was an extension of these views and it's actually disappointing how much the franchise minimised the role of the eugenics movement.

If Steve spent most of his childhood with the poorer and ethnically diverse group, these views are probably less prevalent, but there's likely to be a lot of prejudice once he mingles outside of his social class. His experiences with the medical profession was likely quite negative if this is the dominant belief at the time. In fact, one of the speakers (Madge Macklin) urged to include the teaching of eugenics in the medical curriculum.

The whole-hearted cooperation of the genetically trained medical practitioner is an essential to the success of the eugenic program for the following reasons. (1) He is necessary to determine who are physically and mentally qualified to be parents of the next generation (...) (2) He is the authority who must decide as to what persons have inherited diseases. (3 - summarised) He is depended upon to accurately record observations of disease, especially in those of more than one member of family. (4) He is a vital part in the education of the public as to the value of and necessity for eugenics. (...) He is indispensable in the program of sterilisation, both as the actual operator, and in large part as the initiator of recommendations for patients to be sterilised.

The medical profession, the one you hoped would value doing no harm and autonomy and justice, was being asked to judge the worthiness of people to pass on their genes.

As for exactly how they viewed people with disability and their value, there was this nasty rant by Lena Sadler, an obstetrician - what is exceedingly fascinating is that her Wikipedia page has no mention of her very avid support for eugenics (legit it's the stuff of alt-right crazies and it was about 8 pages long)

The menace of feeblemindedness, insanity, and delinquency is a rising tide, constantly growing in volume, because these enemies of society pass on their faulty mental and moral taints to their rapidly increasing progeny. (...) Here we are coddling, feeding, training, and protecting this viper of degeneracy in our midst (...) all the while seemingly ignorant and unmindful of the fact (...) that the future descendants of the army of the unfit will increase to such numbers that they will overwhelm the posterity of superior humans and eventually wipe out the civilisation (...)

[In an example of an intellectually disabled child] we maintain that society owes it (...) to say to this child: "We will continue to do the very best for you; you shall be educated or trained to your fullest capacity--and then you shall be either segregated or sterilised--we will do our full duty by you, but there must be no more like you."

She had included in her list of unfit people not only the "insane, idiots, criminals and paupers" but also people who were deaf, blind, epileptics, alcoholics, and "abnormal sexuality"...and Steve and Steve's parents would have ticked several boxes.

I feel like I need some time to digest all this. I get the sense that there is pervasive scorn against people who are poor, non-white (*and by this it's Nordic white not just any garden variety white), disabled or has visibly "undesirable genes", and this is a majority view amongst a lot of the educated class, including the medical profession - with whom Steve would have had a lot of contact.

It was...sneaky? Disappointing? That they removed the eugenics movement from the background of CATFA, because I think it informs a lot of Steve's choices. It wasn't that he wanted to kill Nazis, but he knew if the eugenics movement won, there would be no place for him or many millions of people like him, or for the many more who did not fit with the movement's narrow racial and class profile.

And in a way, I think even without Erskine, some part of Steve knew he was the better volunteer, because more than all the other able-bodied soldiers (even including Bucky) he understood the disabled experience, and he knew no one else would be willing to fight as hard for them, because they had been devalued so thoroughly by society.

I feel like with this context in mind, it's also much harder to be feeling sympathetic towards Peggy, who treated pre-serum Steve with at best detached courtesy, with a 180 change as soon as he gained desirable breeding characteristics. I really cannot see Steve carrying all this social context and still finding Peggy a morally attractive character.