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creetchure · 1 year ago

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Please tell me about your ideas for the fallout for like everyone post gotham war (if not everyone than just Jason is fine too, i am very curious about your ideas for an arc for him)

hi hello!!! my thoughts are more directed to jason because he's the one who went through the brunt of things, BUT i have thoughts on all of them. i also have sort of separate thoughts because of the detective comics anouncement, but they contain spoilers for the future issues of detective comics, so if you don't want that, i'm putting it under read more after this.

also typing this and realizing it's REALLY long, so i'm gonna put a tldr at the end of each character LMAO

first off, dick is never forgiving bruce for this. we know exactly how protective of his siblings he is -- he killed joker for implying having killed tim -- and i can't see him letting this slide, no matter how much bruce pleads the "it wasn't me i was being influenced by the personality i created as a backup". Of course, because they're bruceanddick and they're always in a cycle of coming back to each other, eventually, little by little, dick is going to start working with him again, but i don't think this is something he'll ever *forgive*. or forget for that matter. so to me, this should spark an arc of nightwing becoming more separate from batman than he's been in years.

TL;DR: Dick isn't forgiving bruce for this, but will eventually work with him again

second off. there are a lot of things i would like to see for jason, some more likely than others. ill start by what i *know* won't happen, but would be best for his character imo.

Jason is a character we've seen move forward and backwards so many times, mostly because he sells well, and so the writers keep him stuck in this red hood limbo of eing a loner and making friends, and hating bruce and forgiving him, and it's been the same arc since his resurection, and i'm tired. which is why i think what'd be best for him is an Oracle arc, for lack of a better term.

Jason will never leave Gotham for an extended period of time. it's home to him as much as it is to Bruce. he might go away for a bit (id like to see him in Blud but ill get into that later), but he'll always come back. he also will never give up trying to protect Gotham and the people in it, because he never has. But he can't be a vigilante in the same way anymore, functionally, what Bruce has done to him is profoundly disabling in day to day life, let alone doing things that are made to trigger the panic response.

I don't think that should stop him. Personally, my vision for it is to put him at the head of a spy network, to render Batman obsolete and stop major crime before it even happens (potentially also feeding batman fake info to make him look bad), but like. you could do other things. it's just the idea that i'm going with.

But I do think that unlike Dick, jason is going to forgive bruce for this (against his better sense or wishes. he does understand how fucked this is) because he understands altered states of mind (NOT talking about the pit. talking about good old fashioned brain fuckery). but it's also going to cause a rift in their relationship that i don't see them bridging anytime soon, and Jason *will* be extremely uncomfortable for a long time.

Thats only if they don't walk back the panic thing, though, which i firmly believe they will. a Red Hood solo has been in the works for ages, and is supposed to come p soon, and i doubt they'd start it off with Jason unable to *be* Red Hood. They might not fully fix it, but they'll make it much more manageable.

overall, i'd like to see Jason in Bludhaven after this for a bit. I kind of just want a focus on him and Dick for a while, though I dread what Tom Taylor might write of the two of them. I'd also like a mantle change, but that's just me dreaming.

TL;DR: if it was up to me, Jason would have an Oracle arc and be the head of a spy network. it's not, and all I can hope for is Jason moving to Bludhaven and detaching himself from Bruce for a while

third off, tim. I don't have many thoughts about him, if I'm honest, mostly because he's one of the least directly affected by Bruce's actions, imo. i'm also less of a fan of his character, making it harder for me to see all the implications that this arc will have on him. I do firmly believe that he'll stick to his siblings rather than Bruce, because he does know how to look at reality and call out Bruce's bullshit.

TL;DR: i don't know/don't care enough about Tim to have that many thoughts. he'll pick his siblings side.

fourth! Cass! She isn't really present in the event much (doesn't sell as well i assume) but this is important to me so. To me, this causes damage to her and Bruce's relationship as well, that he'll have to work to fix. She is loyal to the Bat and what the symbol represents before she is loyal to the man wearing the suit, and I think that to her, this is betrayal of the ideals Batman stands for. bruce isn't a hero in this arc, and he's not a symbol of hope like the bat stands for. What I would like for Cass is for her to keep going on the missions, keep doing good, but doing so independantly from Batman. She stops answering to him entirely up until she feels he has made amends and has worked himself back to the standard he used to be. I want her to stay in Gotham, and keep protecting it the way the Bat should, even from the bat himself.

TL;DR: cass should stay in Gotham and be batman and not return Bruce's calls.

Damian is the one i'm not exactly sure i know where the writers are leading, but i can still speculate and tell you what *id* do.

we know that him and bruce are still going to be friendly and on the same side by the end of this from Batman and Robin #1. we also know Damian in that issue is kind of distant, doesn't really stick around Bruce much. Williamson's damian always reads sort of. depressed. so idk how much of that is in reaction to Gotham war or just from the way Williamson characterizes him, but there's that.

Imo, Damian will forgive bruce, but is also internalizing a lot of the bad shit that happen in Gotham war. Bruce leaving him needs to be something that stays, because he's 14 and his dad is his hero and he left him behind *anyway* and that's bound to fuck you up.

So I think Damian is staying in Gotham, and he's staying with Bruce, but he's also going to be dealing with the aftermath of that for a while, potentially up to a boiling point, which i'd really like to see. Also i'd like to see this compound with the fact that Talia left him with his father, and how that computes together in his head etc etc.

TL;DR: Damian will stick by Bruce for better or for worse, and might have a shit time mentally dealing with the aftermath of this.

I don't have many thoughts on steph, babs, or selina, since 1) i don't know selina and babs well enough to speak on their character, and 2) steph hasn't been there much, and i don't have a Vision for her like i do for Cass.

okay. those are my thoughts. Now for those on the tec announcement

right so. forget literally all i've said about bruce, because he's going to die.

I'm not pulling this out of thin air, in issue 1080 of detective comics, it's said that Bruce is killed by the orghams, leading to the entirety of gotham city forgetting him. Now, I have no idea how this is getting implemented, so I can't say much about how the members of the Batfamily will react. But I can say that this is, in fact, the natural progression for bruce's character.

in the past year or so, both Zdarski and Ram V have been talking about how Bruce is getting too old, and putting more tangible, permanent consequences on what he does (losing a hand, zur, etc).

On top of that, he has been made to make amends with Dick, Tim, and Jason over the course of that same year (nightwing 100, cheer, failsafe arc, etc)

To me, this arc is the culmination of months of foreshadowing.

Though i'll admit, i thought they were going to just retire bruce for a little while, not fucking *kill him*. it won't last for more than a few years, he sells too well, but i genuinely thought this would be like a knightfall situation.

when it comes to the question of who gets to be batman (i swear, last paragraph and i'm done), i think that gotham war also serves to tell us that *no one* will be. I don't see Dick picking it up in those conditions, Jason won't either, Tim is scared of becoming batman, and Damian might but they won't really let him. ofc they won't let Cass take up the mantle either.

Woo. hope you're happy with this and tihs wasn't more than you bargained for. i'm a bit insane about this.

#dc comics #jason todd #dick grayson #bruce wayne #damian wayne #tim drake #cassandra cain #red hood #nightwing #robin #red robin #orphan #batgirl #batman #gotham war #so sorry for the literal essay.

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