#bruce doesn't mind what the results are because damian will still be his son

[tachvintlogic]

Danny and Damian Twin AU, except not really

@stealingyourbones this is a story premise that I think would be really funny.

Danny and Damian meet and notice they are identical. This is not a doppelganger situation; they are definitely related.

Danny thinks Damian is a clone. Damian thinks Danny is a clone. Their arguments over who's the clone go nowhere.

They bring in their parents.

Talia is very confused because she only had one son and didn't make Danny. The Fentons are also confused because they assumed that Danny was their biological son. Bruce is just confused in general.

After some discussion, it turns out that Talia went to a fertility clinic to have Damian, and the Fentons used the exact same clinic, so it was the clinic that must've fucked up.

But now no one knows who Danny and Damian's biological parents are. Is it Talia and Bruce? The Fentons? Talia and Jack? Maddie and Bruce?

After some shenanigans getting a sample of Danny's DNA that can be tested despite his ecto-contamination, they order some paternity and maternity tests to find out the truth.

And the results are....

[scorpionyx9621]

I Hope Hopeless Changes Over Time: A Red Hood and Batman Fic

*Source of the image I found off of Pintrest. I tried to find the original artist but the link on Pintrest led to a dead Tumblr account. If anyone wants to find/point out the account to me so I can give proper credit to the artist please please do.*

I wanted to make a fic based on an ask I did from the lovely @dilfbatman about Jason and Bruce. I hope people enjoy this mini-fic that I've expanded upon.

TW: Blood, Physical Assault, Suicide Ideation, Swearing. Bruce being a shitty father but trying. Jason having demons 

3.75K words. 

Bruce was uneasy about Jason staying over at the Wayne Mansion. Even with other members of the family around. Jason has done so much wrong and has hurt so many people. However, at the end of the day, Jason still is his son. So when he gets a call from Jason in a hushed voice asking Bruce to stay the night. He hesitated for a second, but acquiesced, Jason was nothing if not independent, so to be asking Bruce outright to stay at the Wayne Manor meant something was wrong.

"Master Jason wouldn't reach out to any of us unless something was gravely wrong, Master Wayne." Alfred had reassured Bruce, who was staring absentmindedly at the glass case which housed Jason's old Robin costume. The costume that Jason had died in. Bruce always tried to repress the memory of holding his son's cold, lifeless body. The pain he felt from losing his parents burned in his heart as an everlasting stab wound. But the pain from losing Jason, his son, it was too much to bare.

"I'd be welcoming to Master Jason, but keep your distance. Master Damian is spending the night at Jon Kent's house, Master Richard is in Blüdhaven, and Master Timothy is with the Teen Titans tonight. I'll rest assured Jason doesn't try anything to harm you. But don't try to encourage a confrontation." Alfred explained. He always seemed to understand Jason to a tee after he came back to life.

"I don't know how you do it Alfred, you can read the boy like a book." Bruce had retorted. Cocking a half-smile to the man who raised him since his parents died.

"Master Wayne, Master Jason wears his heart on his sleeve. He always has. And one of the reasons why you two fight constantly is because, for as terrific as a detective you are, you are horrifically inept in reading the emotions of your children." Alfred had stated, those words bit Bruce. He wasn't expecting such sharp words from Alfred. "We failed Master Jason. And he's hurt, he's been hurt for years because of it. However he keeps choosing to come back and try and trust again. We needn't come at him with accusations of ulterior motives, but we should be supportive." Alfred stated.

"But cognizant of what Jason is capable of." Bruce added back. Jason may need help, but he's still dangerous. He has tried to kill Bruce and the rest of the Robins multiple times. He wants to trust Jason and warm up to him again. But the man who wears the Red Hood and stalks the streets of Gotham killing those he deems criminals is not his son anymore.

Alfred and Bruce greeted Jason as he walked in the large double doors of the Wayne Manor. The first thing Bruce noticed was the dark circles under Jason's eyes. It seemed as if the man hadn't slept in days. Jason was wearing sweatpants and a fitted black wife beater, accentuating his muscles. Jason would have looked more intimidating had his body language not suggested he was as disheveled as he was, physically and mentally.

"Thanks Alfred." Jason had said meekly towards the butler. He took one step into the mansion and looked at Bruce. Bruce noticed as soon as Jason's eyes met his, his tired irises contorted into anger. His lips pursed downwards but Jason chose not to say anything. Instead just walking past Bruce pretending not to acknowledge him.

"Master Jason, you will be staying in the guest suite on the main floor. I've already prepped everything for your arrival. Please make yourself at home." Alfred had said. Jason just shook is head as he headed towards the hallway leading the guest suite. Bruce didn't notice it immediately but the stench Jason had emitted stung in the air. It smelled like stale liqour and body oder. It seems Jason hadn't bathed in days. Bruce had wanted to say something but chose not to.

The evening went by quietly enough. Jason had taken a shower and changed into another fitted wife beater but still sported a tired energy about him. Alfred had put together a beef pot roast for dinner with red potatoes, carrots, onions, and celery over garlic mashed potatoes. A favorite dish of Jason's. The three of them ate quietly as Bruce continued to size up his son. He was conflicted. At one point he saw the man who blew up the head of a Gotham security force member with a torture decide he had created. On the other hand, he saw the boy who would beg for Bruce to buy him more books after he finished the maximum amount a library card would allow for a week in the span of 3 days. The son who told him being Robin gave him magic.

The dinner ended as it began. With awkward silence and the father-son duo eyeing each other. One with cautious trepidation and the other with abject hate. Bruce had decided not to go on patrol tonight as he felt he needed to be at the manor should anything happen while Jason was here. An uneasy sense of dread built over Bruce as he had said good night to Jason as the two passed by each other in the halls. Jason simply spat 'Bitch' at Bruce and walked into the bedroom. Bruce had been bad with other people's emotions, but something didn't sit right with the way Jason was carrying himself. He had decided to stay up tonight regardless. A sense came over him after being sworn at by Jason. A sense he hadn't felt in a long time. He felt as though his son needed help.

————————————————————

"You're a monster"

"Jason is a murderer"

"Stay away from Jason, he'll kill you."

"No one wants you around, Todd"

"You're just a good guy trying to be bad"

"This is the kid you had to replace me with as Robin? Bruce he's pathetic."

"I can't believe my daughter wasted the Lazarus Pit on a miserable failure like you."

"Maybe I'd be better off dead"

Jason tossed and turned. It's been days. He couldn't get the voices out of his head. Those whispery, moany voices that taunted and tormented him. He knew it was a result of the Lazarus Pit. Ever since Roy died and everyone left him the voices started taunting him again. He tried everything he could to get the voices to stop. He drank, he read, he worked out, he did everything he could. The only way the voices became quiet were when he was beating the ever-loving shit out of some criminals. This was not the mindset Jason had wanted. He wanted to go back to being supported by Bruce, the man who betrayed him. He knew that Bruce was weak. He couldn’t kill the Joker because of his weakness. 

Jason got up and walked over to the connecting bathroom to the suite that he was staying in. He went to the sink and splashed some cold water on his face. Against his better judgement, Jason looked up to the figure he saw in the mirror. He took note of his jawline, his face, his green eyes, his muscles.. but one thing that caught his eye was the fucking skunk streak of hair at the top of his head. The physical reminder of his dip in the Lazarus Pit. He had just re-dyed the spot not two days ago and it already came back. He did everything he could to try to hide the streak. It’s what he hated most about his new body. The pit wiped away all of the scars he had on his body. And any new fresh scar or wound would just fade in a matter of moments due to the effects of the pit. The only thing that ever stayed was that damned streak. 

Jason had nothing but disgust and contempt for the man he saw in the mirror, which, ironically, was himself. 

“You’re just using the sarcasm to hide your hatred.” 

“It’s your fault that everyone hates you.” 

“Killing the sick of the masses to save those who are weak is your calling” 

“Those reptiles deserve to die” 

“I don’t want to kill unless I don’t have to.. I don’t want people to hate me..” Jason tried reassuring himself. The voices in his head kept getting louder and louder. “I want Bruce and everyone to love me again....” He continued to try to re-assure himself. It was a false sense of hope as always. His mind soon wandered to a moment where he was on top of Dick in a fight. Confronting his older sibling and reciting a quote he had heard from a Japanese philosopher and optimist as he had the barrel of a gun placed against his older brother’s temple. 

“Do you know what the most convenient phrase in the world is, Dickie? It’s ‘I’m sorry.’ Anyone who hears that is obligated to forgive, no matter how hurt or angry they might be... There's no more disgusting phrase in all the world. It's used to displace your suffering unto others so you can escape your sins... The moment you employ it, your suffering becomes the other person's. A thing can be unforgivable, but oh, if they apologize... I say there's no reason to accept that suffering. You don't have to forgive them. Cast aside the mask of your conscience.“ 

“Stop this. Please stop this.” Jason had begged aimlessly into the air. He didn’t want to live like this anymore. He didn’t want to live, period. He just wanted all of this to end. He had caused so much pain and so much suffering to the people of Gotham all so he could attempt to hurt Bruce. But those words kept repeating in his head. He knew he had to stop this. He needed help, he wanted to go to Bruce and explain what was going on but Bruce would just have him institutionalized. His murderer of a son starts hearing voices in his head? A one way ticket to a padded room. 

Jason suddenly stared back into the mirror and saw something he detested. The green eyes that stared into his soul. The one he hated more than anything else. Was himself. This thing was staring him in the face mocking him, and he wanted it gone. 

“Do it Jason.” the voice had beckoned from the mirror. “Kill them all. Slit Damian’s throat and watch the fucker bleed. Bash Tim’s stupid face into the concrete until there’s nothing but mush. Rip Dick limb from fucking limb. Watch Bruce as you choke the last bit of life from his eyes. I promise all the pain will go away once all of this is done.” the voice sounded almost sweet as it promised to do all of this. Jason just retched as he saw the green eyed monster promising poison to him. He felt his vision fade to black. 

------------------------------------------------------------------

STOP IT. SHUT. UP. 

*CRASH* 

Bruce had jumped up from the chair he was sitting on in the library, the voice came from the suite that Jason was staying in. Bruce didn’t have time to think. He just ran towards the noise. He threw the door to the suite open and ran to the bathroom. There he saw Jason in front of a heavily cracked mirror. Jason was hyperventilating and he saw blood oozing from Jason’s fist which was pressed against the mirror. Bruce saw from the reflection that Jason had split open the left side of his lip seemingly from a shard of glass. It wasn’t long before Jason glanced up at the imposing shadow in the mirror and noticed Bruce’s presence. 

“YOU STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM ME BRUCE.” Jason had shouted at his reflection. Jason was shaking. Bruce had wanted to assess the injury that Jason gave himself. But he knew he was cornering a scared animal if he pressed any farther forward. Bruce stood their frozen. Pondering between trying to press forward upon a killer, or to check up on his son. 

“Jason, I just...” Bruce was cut off by another scream as Jason turned around. 

“IF YOU COME ANY CLOSER I SWEAR TO GOD I WILL KILL YOU WHERE YOU FUCKING STAND YOU PIECE OF SHIT.” Bruce finally got the cue. The hitch in Jason’s voice. This is the same hitch his voice made when he was a kid and was angry at Bruce. Alfred was right. This is his son. And right now Bruce needed not to be the Batman approaching the Red Hood. He needed to be Bruce, to help his son. 

Bruce walked forward to Jason, still shaking as blood oozed from the gashes of glass on his fist. Bruce decided against everything in his gut telling him to stop this criminal. This monster who killed for sport and to prove a point. He needed to help Jason, his son. 

Bruce was knocked back by a fist to his chest. Glass imbedded itself into Bruce as he felt the sting of their shards. Jason was right, he was going to hurt Bruce if he approached. Oracle was right, Jason had been abusing venom. The quick gain in muscle mass was proof enough but the stinging pain in Bruce’s chest also proved that hypothesis. Jason barred his teeth as his eyes displayed a seething hatred. Bruce would have been frightened on any other day. Today, Bruce felt a feeling he hadn’t felt in a long time. Bruce collected himself and got up to approach Jason again. 

“I TOLD YOU I’M GOING TO KILL YOU BRUCE. I FUCKING HATE YOUR GUTS. I WANT YOU TO DIE. I WANT ALL OF US TO JUST FUCKING DIE.” Jason screamed even louder this time. A hot stream of tears worked their way down Jason’s cheeks. Bruce no longer saw a rage-induced monster but the boy who took a tire iron to his gut on the streets of Gotham. The boy who would was thrilled at every opportunity he got to show Bruce the A’s on every test he got in school. This was his baby boy who needed his help. 

“Jason Peter Todd that’s enough.” Bruce said firmly, but not harshly. Jason stared directly into his eyes. “Jason. I want you to listen to me.” 

“Go to hell you motherfucker.” those words which escaped Jason were laced with poison. Bruce didn’t waver. 

“You can punch me as much as you want Jason and I’ll deserve all of it.” Bruce came closer to Jason. Jason proceeded to physically make himself smaller. Like a scared animal. Bruce remember what he did to Jason after he had seemingly killed The Penguin. How he beat Jason to within an inch of his life. His heart plummeted to his stomach as he saw Jason cower like a scared dog over his approach. 

“What are you going to do Bruce, beat me to a fucking pulp again? You hate me more than you hate the fucking Joker, don’t you?” Jason asked. Bruce truly saw the fear in those green eyes. He had to take a moment and realized just what he was doing. He unclenched his jaw and relaxed his shoulders as he approached Jason. This time he was back within striking range of his son. 

“Jason. I failed you. I have been failing you for the past 10 years since your death. I have failed this city and this family in providing the protection it needs. I couldn’t kill The Joker because I’m weak.” Bruce sucked at emotions and emoting. But Bruce hadn’t felt this shaky and wavering since the day he lost Jason. His son needed to know the truth. He deserved to know the truth. “Jason I never hated you. I hated the actions you have taken against the people of this city. But I’ve come to realize that the hatred and contempt I’ve held is because you do what I can’t do.” 

“Oh so now you’re coming over to apologize? I don’t owe you shit after what you’ve done to me.” Jason had stated. He may have been acting like a pinned animal. But his mouth will never not cut like knives. 

“Jason, when we had fought in the abandoned apartment. And you had the Joker with you. You had tried to shoot me after I had turned away from you.” Bruce said. Inching ever closer to Jason while trying not to be imposing. “In that moment, I threw the batarang because I knew you were going to retaliate against me. But I need you to know in that moment I turned away. I turned away because I decided I wasn’t to be the one to decide the Joker’s fate. He had taken your life and it wasn’t up to me to decide. I want nothing more than for the Joker to pay for the countless lives hes taken and ruined.” Bruce swallowed hard as he felt tears beginning to well in his eyes. “I failed you because I couldn’t kill the Joker. But in that moment, I wanted nothing more than to have my baby boy back. I wanted you back in my life. I still want you back in my life.” 

“Bullshit. Fucking BULLSHIT.” Jason spat at Bruce. The emotions were flooding out of his face. Anger, hatred, fear, but most of all sadness. Jason’s voice began wavering as he began to cry. “If you loved me why in the fuck have you never realized I’ve been trying to help the people of Gotham. Instead every time I take matters into my own hands all I meet are your fucking fists. I hate your guts Bruce. We’d all just be better off fucking dead. It’s all Hopeless. I’m hopeless.” 

Bruce took a deep breath. He tried to find his resolve. He wanted nothing more than to be able to reach out to his son again. “You’re absolutely right Jason. I’ll bet Gotham would be a whole lot better without me. Without the pain I have caused. And no amount of apologies will fix the pain that I have caused you. No words will ever take back the transgressions I have taken against you.” Bruce was crying this time. “But know this. You always have been my son. And I love you so much. The day I lost my parents was agony. The day I lost you, I felt like I had lost myself I felt I had died a bit inside.” Bruce choked out. “We both have done so much we regret. If I could take back all the times I hit you I would do it in a heartbeat. But no amount of sorry will take back that pain. I shouldn’t be in the position to be asking this. But I just want my son back.” Bruce swallowed. “You have every right to hate me, but I will never stop loving you. You aren’t hopeless and you never have been. You never have been a burden. You are valued by so many people. I. I love you my son. I love you Jason."

Jason’s face relaxed from a position of contempt and hatred and soon was overcome with years of pent up tears. Jason let out a hearty scream as he proceeded to weep and sob. As if a dam had broke and was threatening to engulf a town in an apocalypse. Bruce went against everything he had known and was screaming from the inside of his body and wrapped Jason in a hug. He was almost as large as Bruce himself and barely fit around his arms. But Bruce held his son and hugged him tight. Jason was crying uncontrollably. 

“I’m hearing these voices. They’re telling me I’m a monster and a killer and that I should kill all of you.” Jason shouted between sobs. “But I don’t want to. I’m so afraid Bruce. I don’t want to hurt anyone unless I have to.” 

“Just breath Jason. I’m here. I’m not going anywhere. Let it all out.” Bruce had solidified his resolve and worked on being there for Jason. He couldn’t run away this time. His son needed him more than ever. And Gotham be damned. He’s not making this mistake twice. He’s staying here. For Jason. 

It felt like hours before Jason had run out of tears and sobs. Jason was fading and seemed like he was about to fall asleep. The shards of glass that were imbedded in his hand seemingly prevented Jason from bleeding out. Bruce had saw Jason’s eyes glaze over as his breathing calmed. 

“Jason, I’m going to pick you up and take you to bed.” Bruce had said, asking for permission from his second son. Jason simply nodded as he starred off. He was numb now. The pain seemingly gone for the moment. Bruce lifted Jason up and was taken aback by just how heavy his son was. He truly was 225lbs just like his records showed. This wasn’t the son who hid under the cabinets when Bruce first brought Jason home. But Bruce still saw the boy as his son nonetheless. As Bruce laid Jason on the bed Alfred had approached with a first aid kit. Proceeding to begin to clean up Jason’s hand. Jason was so exhausted he barely felt any of the picking and pulling or the iodine going into his wounds. He kept his eyes fast forward on Bruce. 

“Bruce. I. I’m sorry.” Jason had said meekly. 

“Don’t apologize Jason.” Bruce had stated. He ran his hand through Jason’s hair, giving a soft massage to his scalp. “You get some sleep now. I don’t think you’ve rested in days.” 

Bruce had remembered the time he had read Jason to sleep. This time he had thought back to a poem that struck him from his phone. It was from a famous lyricist and singer. As Bruce pulled up his phone he had found the poem and recited it as Jason fell asleep. Things are far from perfect or even better. But tomorrow was going to be the first day of the rest of his and Jason’s lives. 

“They told me once, ‘there's a place where love conquers all’

A city with the streets full of milk and honey

I haven't found it yet, but I'm still searching

All I know is a hopeless place that flows with the blood of my kin

Perhaps hopeless isn't a place

Nothing but a state of mind” 

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pHEW GOD THAT WAS LONG. I hope you all enjoyed the fic! This was my first published attempt at angst and whump and while I feel some parts are cringe. I am proud of what I made. 

Big thanks again to @dilfbatman for inspiring this fic. The inspiration of the title is the song Hopeless: by Halsey. The quote about I’m Sorry is from the character Shadow Maya Amano from Persona 2: Innocent Sin. And the poem at the end is the first part of the lyrics to the song Good Mourning by Halsey. 

[deathbydibs]

I feel like this is hard, because they're probably all very light sleepers unless under certain circumstances, But I'm going to take a stab at this with exclusively the male characters.

Tim is the absolute heaviest. He doesn't sleep, so when he does, it's very, very deep. Damian and Stephanie have played How Many Things can We Stack. Stephanie usually wins and Damian doesn't understand because he was "trained by Ra's Al Ghul".

Duke is next, he actually sleeps at a relatively normal heaviness and gets a normal amount of sleep in. He has to be in a proper place to sleep though, it can't just be anywhere.

Jason isn't a light sleeper, but that doesn't mean he sleeps well. He often wakes up from nightmares and usually can't go back to sleep. If he isn't in his room, check the roof. The sky gives him peace.

Damian sleep deeply but wakes easily. Part of his training was to be awake, armed, and ready to fight within seconds of hearing a noise. It took him a while to actually relax at night when he first moved into the manor.

Dick is a pendulum depending on where he is. If there are people he loves and trusts around him, he's harder to wake then Tim- especially since trying to wake him results in you getting used as a cuddle buddy. But if he's in an unfamiliar place or just is on edge, you might think he's sleeping but he's actually just laying very still and trying to relax.

Bruce barely sleeps. It's hard for him to quiet his mind at night so he'll lay in bed and let everything run through his mind until he either falls asleep or gives up on it. The two outliers are when his sons climb in for one reason or another or when Alfred drugs him.

Alfred is the lightest sleeper. This is partly because of when he was in the Army, but it's mostly because he never knows what shape his family is going to come back like. He can jump up in the blink of an eye and be ready to pull a bullet or stitch a wound and he wakes easily at the faintest cries of someone in the manor.

Someone rank all the bats in order of lightest sleeper to heaviest sleeper I wanna know what you guys think

[saturnaftertaste]

ok so like. I have twenty spare minutes so I'll do this now. apologies in advance if I get canon wrong somewhere

the thing that always gets me about stephanie's story is how much of it is circumstance based on the fact that no-one ever really wanted her around

like. all of the others are wanted around, willingly. tim is wanted, dare I say needed (by the plot at least) by bruce and dick and jack, and then eventually cass and steph. cass is wanted by babs and bruce and steph - for various reasons, ranging from being a daughter figure to the perfect heir and so on and so forth. dick is wanted all the way from the very first time the two met, whether that's because of Bruce's want for a kindred spirit or his dormant dad instincts kicking is up for the audience (and the writer of the context) to decide. even jason when he was literally the definition of unwanted and ignored (aka a street kid) bruce saw this kid and went oh my god of course I need to protect him and raise him as my own...and then naturally lose my mind when he dies because he was my son regardless of blood ties (ha!) ...bruce literally went to hell and back for damian when he died and dick was so distraught when he was dead he got caught by earth-3 syndicate...what I'm trying to get at here is - depending on the era and the particular writer - all of these kids are wanted around by someone. perhaps that started with a transactional, professional relationship (tim n bruce, cass n bruce) but eventually it evolved into something much more familial and stronger than that to the point where all these kids bar damian have been adopted.

but then you have stephanie - and her origins shift between eras, yeah I know, but the baseline always remains that her father is a career criminal and her mother is a drug addict. and like for sure crystal wanted her around and loved her enough to be there for the latter half of her adolescence, but most of what fanon puts tim through (and this is another problem I have with this fandom, whatever whatever I already talked about this) is what steph did experience, right? so for most of her life her father didn't want her around and her mother was neglectful, and she didn't really have any "positive adults" in her life as such (I think it's quoted in the wiki as well that her gymnastics coach was a drug user). so then this kid, who no one has ever really cared about enough to help tries to help herself, and that's shot down too...

and keep in mind that, intentionally or not, stephanie's story is eerily reminiscent of Jason's - drug addicted mother, criminal father, becomes robin as replacement and is then fired from robin and subsequently dies and then comes back to life - even if you look at stephanie in her early teens and even if the only thing that batman knows about her is that she's cluemaster's daughter and that she's got a bad home life, how is it that jason was wanted and she wasn't? why was, instead of enabling and training and supporting her as bruce did dick when HE ran off to kill zucco as a grieving eight-year-old, when stephanie does the same thing albeit with her father, she never receives the same kind of support?

I know that in-text reason is that bruce is still grieving jason; ergo he doesn't want any more children hurt, but then what of tim? friendly reminder that when they began, tim and steph would have more-or-less had the same smarts and skills - stephanie possibly moreso based on the fact that she used to do gymnastics and outsmarted her father without any outside help, whereas the genius attributed to tim is often a result of circumstance from him being there at haly's as a child. and while tim eventually forced his way into becoming batman's robin and therefore received training/gadgets/multiple people helping him, he was still a child. if stephanie had received that sort of training and trust to begin with, most of the problems following her firing wouldn't have happened.

and even if you forget the hero stuff. even if you just look at stephanie as a character, as a kid, minus all the hero bullshit - what was the reason for bruce to not actively protect her like he did dick, or jason? I mean this man, who saw a street kid lifting his tires and immediately thought that he needed to be protected (and only made him robin later) is going to look at this kid who has no one and think, she's not worth my time? and especially the fact that she was a girl and not a boy - not to get caught up in gender politics here, but the world as of the 1990s and even today was and is objectively less safe for women than it is for men. you're telling me he saw this little girl and he didn't think oh, she deserves to be heard out and respected and protected like I did for the kids before her? how could you not want - if not her as a person - then at least to protect her?

the funny thing about all this even is that bruce and stephanie's relationship would have started transactional-and-professional like bruce + cass or bruce + tim, but more fittingly - she would be providing information at her own risk about a known criminal, and in return, he would rescue from the shitty situation that she was in. you're telling me that this guy with a soft spot for random kids off the street wouldn't get attached to her and want her around, like he did tim to the point where he basically used stephanie to try and get him back.

and then she wasn't wanted by babs either! and see babs I can understand. I don't have to like it, because I personally am a fan of healthy supportive female relationships, but babs' bitterness is built-into her character post-killing joke. and it makes sense and it's logical, but it's also painful to read (a la the panels where cass gives steph a microfracture to shut her up). yes babs doesn't want anymore kids getting hurt and cass gets to be the exception to that rule because she's a trained badass, but tim gets that support? especially when barbara was in her place once upon a time, and if perfectly suited to understand what steph is going through - girl in a boy's club, having to train and fight to prove herself, with the extra bonus of steph having a solid personal reason to fight beyond "wanting to fix the city". but even when she reluctantly lets steph hang around the clocktower, it's always that she's secondary to cass - cass who is wanted and loved and cass who herself doesn't (can't?) express any real friendship for stephanie outside of training.

and the training itself, the training that would make her just as capable as robin and just as important as robin is never given to her, so when she asks to be a part of something she's not good enough but when she asks to be trained she doesn't get that either and it's just a cyclical compounding of misery for this one kid who just wanted to fix her life and then fix others. batman declares she's not hero material, the birds of prey stop training her...it's just I don't get why in-universe she isn't...liked.

and then everyone's got someone but her. cass has babs and cass has tim and and bruce and kon. tim has his titans and ives and bernard and dick and bruce, and all the others have each other but steph has no one and she's always everyone's last choice for everything, of least importance to everyone. If things ever go south, everyone else has somewhere to run, people to fall back on who love them beyond their ability to provide them with something - and steph is never wanted like that anywhere. small fucking wonder she ended up dead. she is never WANTED enough to be trusted, or trusted enough to be wanted and in the end you just have a kid who got caught up in something much bigger than herself because she dared to dream of a life better than the one she had.

i wouldn't care this much honestly if in-text it was acknowledged as wrong at some point beyond the usual "reckless and stupid" excuse used to undercut all of this because I personally love it when fiction is unjust to characters because it opens up so many more avenues for complex nuanced stories, but post-batgirl 2009, steph drops off the map entirely only to appear in batman and robin eternal, completely revised, erasing all of her past that endeared her to readers. essentially what I'm trying to say is that beyond a certain limit, steph is completely unnecessary to the plot and batman family as a whole because she's not tied to them by blood or law, hence the heinous and unfettered destruction of her character to suit any and all storylines to raise up other characters and vilify her. I'm not saying she's a perfect character by any means, but she had a lot of potential and most if not all of it was squandered on playing annoying sidekick to possibly the most obnoxious batman-and-robin duo in history

had the writers been slightly less misogynistic slightly more aware of the backstories they were handing out to characters I think there is no reason that steph would have been disliked in-universe, so now I think she should be separated from the batfamily as a whole and perhaps given to another franchise (ahem ahem green lantern 😌) to develop as a character because right now keeping her static in the batfamily is boring. yes, she could've been the perfect thematic parallel to jason, but well, that's a story for another time.

tl:dr: I love stephanie brown and I don't understand why characters in the dc universe don't. cheers and thanks for coming to my tedtalk

stephanie brown...oh my god I have so much to say about her...