#bo-katan has been an antagonist

[kanansdume]

It's not actually misogynistic to watch a trailer that is actively attempting to trick you into thinking a character might be an antagonist and come away thinking said character might be an antagonist, especially if they've been an antagonist in prior media in the franchise. Yes, even if the character in question is female.

And even if the trailer in question WASN'T doing that, it's not misogynistic to watch a character say something rude and assume they're probably doing so unprovoked when being insensitive and rude to people unprovoked is a known aspect of their personality as set up by multiple prior TV shows they've been in. Yes, even if the character in question is female.

I love that we all heard Bo-Katan say "Your cult fractured Mandalore, where were you" in the trailer and immediately went "wow what a bitch" and the reality of the scene was that Din started it by sitting there calling her a coward and a loser to try to goad her into coming with him to Mandalore so he could regain his honor.

AND she admits that there were MULTIPLE factions that helped fracture Mandalore, not JUST the Children of the Watch. While she doesn't name those other factions, this is the closest we've gotten to Bo-Katan admitting her own involvement in fracturing Mandalore by being part of Death Watch.

So not quite as much of a bitch as she was advertised to be.

[duchess-of-mandalore]

I cannot tell you how over-the-two-moons-of-Mandalore I am about the Bo-Katan we got in “The Mines of Mandalore.” While I was hoping they’d treat her character with nuance and not make her a villain, I did expect that they’d immediately set her up as an antagonist to Din’s story. I also expected that we’d pick up in Season 3 with a Bo who was angry, frustrated, despondent, rude, and impulsive and I was ready to defend every one of those emotions.

I never expected the Bo we got in this episode.

She’s fierce and tough, depressed and hurting, but then we also get these sad smiles and longing looks and these beautiful moments where her gentler side comes through.

She’s wields the Darksaber with skill and precision and the expertise that comes with both practice and willingness to connect with the saber the way Kanan taught Sabine to do. That’s her sword.

But she’s honorable. She could have killed Din (or at least let him die) several times over. She could have taken the Darksaber. She could be bitter about the fact that he has it. 

Instead, we see her wield the Darksaber as an expert, and then place it back on the ground with the rest of Din’s weapons. 

I was scared we’d get a Bo that disregarded her character development in Rebels, but she’s proven that she’s still committed to fighting honorably for her people, just as she told Sabine to do.

And she’s just so ... beautifully soft.

We saw Bo be soft so rarely in TCW and Rebels, but Katee is leaning into giving Bo that gentle side.

Her immediate concern when Grogu shows up alone and willingness to go find his dad even though at first she’d been like “It’s Din Djarin. Let’s get rid of him once and for all.”

Each and every time she talks to Grogu, she’s so tender and calm. She encourages him when he’s scared and pushes his pram out of the way when she senses danger. She talks to him and knows he understands and tells him at least generally about the connection she’s had to Jedi in her life.

(In short, Bo loves babies!)

The way Grogu looks at her tells me he already likes and trusts her.

Plus she’s saved his dad several times now.

To be clear, I’m sure there’s going to be tension going forward, and I don’t expect Bo to always act as calmly and nobly as she did in this episode. She can be catty and rude and violent and I love that those are all parts of her character, too. 

But I also think it’s already clear that in terms of her desires for her people, this former terrorist is done fighting over petty differences. She doesn’t dismiss Din even though he’s a part of a group she considers a cult (and she would know) because he’s still her people. And she’s still has no higher desire than the reunification of her scattered people and for them to be able to live in peace in spite of their long history of (and her own participation in) civil wars. 

“I am not my sister.” 

No, but Bo-Katan is currently more like her than she ever has been.

[itberice]

Can we take a moment to appreciate the way Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni handled the Din and Bo-Katan relationship this season?

Going into this season, I think everyone assumed that Bo-Katan was going to be an antagonist; that there would be a battle over the Darksaber and they wouldn't be on the same side.

They chose to go in a direction that few expected. They built a great and respectful relationship between the two. Their friendship is the base on which the Mandalorians have reunited.

This was definitely a better choice than having the Mandalorians fights against each other again. It has been very well written.

[ravenalla]

I know Into the Spiderverse has already been praised in every way possible that it deserves but I really think it is a great example of how to give characters arcs without taking the focus away from your main character. Peter B. Parker evolves throughout the film and realizes that he wants to be a role model to a kid and he wants to fix things with MJ, but Miles’s story is still the center of it all. The characters compliment each other, Miles learns from Peter to become the hero he can be while Miles helps Peter to the gain confidence he needs ti face his own life problems. Same thing with Gwen, she acts as one of the only people his age that can understand what Miles is going through while he helps her to open up to the idea of friendship again after her Peter’s death. Each character is given depth and growth, but the story still knows that Miles is key. Neither feels like it’s taking away from the other.

This is what mando should have done. Din and Grogu would still be the center of the show, but other Mandalorians like Bo-Katan could be a compliment or foil to Din’s story. If you really didn’t want her to be an antagonist you could have had Bo reluctantly guide Din to keep an eye on the darksaber and eventually come to realize that he is who Mandalore needs, helping him gain the confidence in himself to become the next leader, while Din could have helped Bo come to term with her past failures and make her realize she doesn’t have to be leader like her father wanted to be a great Mandalorian. They both have what the other needs to learn. This would allow Bo to have development without cheapening the main character’s story. It’s crucial for any show or movie to find that balance, and I think TBOBF was already a warning that Disney just doesn’t know how with Star Wars.

[antianakin]

The last two books in Effie Calvin's Tales From Inthya series (Empress of Xytae and Daughter of the Moon) really feel like the Satine and Bo-Katan story I WISH we'd gotten.

Empress of Xytae is the story of a princess who is heir to the throne of a country whose culture values physical strength and aggression and war above all else, but the princess doesn't value any of those things. She has to go on the run when her father dies and her younger sister starts a coup and she goes on a journey where she sees exactly how her country's values have brought its people to near ruin. She learns to be more confident in herself and decides to rally support to take back her throne so she can help bring her country into a time of peace. Along the way she is joined by another young princess who teaches her the value of spontaneity and her grandmother who helps her understand the responsibilities that go into being a ruler.

Daughter of the Moon is the story of the younger sister who is removed from power and sent off to another country to learn their values while her own country stabilizes from its years at war. She has retained all of her people's values about aggression and physical strength and barely understands a culture where those AREN'T valued the same way. For the first time, she isn't treated as special and given anything she wants simply for being strong and born the right way. She has to figure out how to actually connect with other people as equals and allow herself to be vulnerable with someone else.

What I like about Empress of Xytae is that it allows for the main character to be RIGHT about her country's failures, but to still have flaws that actually get acknowledged by the narrative as things she needs to work on in order to accomplish her goals. In this character's case, she's very shy and insecure and submissive. She initially had just planned to run away to try to find a safe place to live out her life, and it's not until she really understands how much the years of war have impacted her people that she starts to realize that she can't be that selfish and works to overcome her own instincts in order to be the leader her people need. I also appreciated how the romantic relationship she builds with the other princess became a necessary aspect of her growth as a character. It's not just superfluous or done to send a message, the relationship is integral to the main character's growth into being a leader willing to stand up for her own beliefs and protect those she cares about.

What I like about Daughter of the Moon is that it allows the main character to be sympathetic without ignoring that she'd been one of the primary antagonists of the last book and that she is SEVERELY flawed as a person. She's aggressive and arrogant and self-absorbed and intentionally unkind. She caused a lot of harm to a lot of people, but she's also the way she is because other people encouraged her to be this way. She made her own choices, of course, and the book never shies away from that and the need for her to learn how to make DIFFERENT ones, but she was also taught that there were things about herself she couldn't (and/or shouldn't) control, regardless of its impact on other people. She continues to make bad choices throughout her book even as she also shows that there are sides of her we never saw in the first book when we only saw her from her sister's perspective. We hear more about what her life was like and how it hurt her, but she also continues to hurt other people and has to deal with those consequences now that it actually means something to her. This book allows her to be both sympathetic and wrong, likable while still learning how to be a good person, and I appreciate the way it balances those in order to give her a redemption arc. People are allowed to not forgive her, she's allowed to not forgive some of those who've hurt her, and it doesn't take away from either side of the relationship.

[silversiren1101]

Not-not tagged by various mutuals for this so I tried my own hand! Most of my OCs appear fully formed like Athena bursting from Zeus' head so instead I tried to dissect the subconscious inspirations that Mino could have been born from.

Aragorn: Look LOTR is the most formative piece of media in my entire life. You see a Rohirrim cavalry charge when you're like 8 and it imprints on you forever and ever, okay? Anyway, Aragorn as the natural born destined leader that spends the majority of his life denying and running from it, but has such a strong sense of duty and morality that he cannot in good conscience abandon those that need him? He steps up anyway despite how much he does not want it nor thinks he deserve it because he just can't let his companions/his love/the world fall? Mino is very Aragorn coded, lol. The destined Leader/Deity|King that embodies everything they avoid being and Do Not Want, and accepts in the end that heavy crown with duty and grace.

Jheraal: From Liane Merciel's, Hellknight! Mino already existed when I started reading this novel but a lot of Jheraal's characterization and Hellknights in general refined Mino more and more. Mino was an HK investigator only because this novel showed me that was a thing they could be, and same for the concept of Hellknight Foundlings! A lot of Jheraal's struggles being accepted and respected as a tiefling also play into Mino's own struggles as a ganzi.

Satine Kryze (-> Bo-Katan Kryze): Mino is both the Kryzes in a sense, starting off as idealist Satine that firmly and so stubbornly believes in doing things in the way she deems is right, no matter how much people fight and push against that and how difficult it is. She's clever and exceptionally diplomatic, ready to risk her own life and body to do what she thinks is right and bound by her duty to the people. Then, of course, Satine... I see a lot of what happened to Satine as Mino's own fate at the hands of House Thrune, but rather than death she instead takes on a lot more aspects of Bo-Katan.

Brigitte: Brigitte is way too cute and cool a character to be left in the cesspit that is Overwatch. Much of Brigitte's visual design has inspired Mino's, and so has the bright and peppy jock personality.

Shepard: Jaded military veteran leading a crew of people she cares so intensely about, becoming a special type of operative both bound by and outside of the law, having to deal with the mire of bureaucracy and resorting to a gun (hammer) when things must be done? Willing to do WHATEVER IT TAKES to get the mission done and save everyone? Lots of Shep in Mino.

Koby: I'm surprised I only found one anime inspiration! But Koby is my baby boy and as a long term One Piece fan, his story of wanting to be a Marine (which from the onset in OP the audience is pointed to see as 'the antagonists') and actually do real good and be a champion for justice in the people even in spite of seeing nothing but corruption from them thus far speaks a lot of how I view fantasy law enforcement and characters like that. Mino wanting to be a Hellknight and seeing it as her calling mirrors a lot of Koby's own ideals with the Marines, and both spend their years in each respective organizing emerging powerful, confident, successful in their dreams, and with a huge glow-up (lol).

[beskarandkyber]

I must say that Bo Katan's conversion to Din's "cult" has got to be one of the worst things I've seen in tv recently. For many reasons. It was so terrible in fact that it has well and truly kicked my interest in the show down a terrifying hundred degrees.

I know a lot of people are up in arms about this season. And I'm devastated to be thinking so negatively of a show that has only ever brought me joy. Writing for The Mandalorian has never been amazing, but I was okay with that because I love Din and his weird little attitude and position towards the galaxy. The characters on the show were enough to keep it alive and fun and carry it without relying too heavily on a fantastically written script. And scenes that were meant to make you feel something did. Stakes were good, and the story progressed just fine. It was a fun, heartwarming show with some badassery tossed in. But holy moly and pie.

To start I can only guess at this point what the point behind Din being excommunicated was. He was obviously messed up over the fact that his family and clan let him go so easily but he understood and accepted the creed. I was excited after he had taken off his helmet and broken the Creed because it opened up this new way to explore the clan and the possible problematic aspects of how he was living and how the the clan worked. This in turn exploring Din's identity as a Mandalorian with the knowledge he's gained from Boba and the other Mandos from season 2. Maybe there is more than one way. Tie this to Bo Katan and her vehement dislike for the clan and the fact that they were together when he broke his own Creed we could have had a huge a fun and impactful conversation about mandalorians, his Creed, where Din stands when he's placed in the gray area of the Mandalorian identity. I'm not saying that the clan is inherently problematic or evil, none of that because subjectively, it's not, but there should have been some type of nuanced conversation that affected Din and his place in the galaxy and the fact that he had a foundling. Not only this but the fact that he had recently come into ownership of the dark saber which places him by Mandalorian tradition and culture at the head of Mandalore. Perhaps predictably I thought that season 3 would contain his battle and internal and external struggle as he's fitted into this place that he never thought he would be in. I was excited to see his relationship with his clan completely changed especially as he sees that he has a new place in the galaxy and starts to perhaps grow away from them which could have led to either an antagonist in Bo Katan or a reluctant ally, or both!

Din felt too listless over the entire situation. That was his family the people who raised him, the people he had sworn his allegiance to, were so quick to dismiss him without hearing him out. But nothing really came out of it, no emotion no internal battles, no anything. We were simply told that he needed to go and get baptized to be redeemed.

I struggle also with the concept of bathing in the living Waters and Bo Katan joining the clan. Baptism is just bathing if there is no intent behind the action. Din was baptized because of his intention and he has a little like prayer thing he said. Bo Katan on the other hand went into the waters to save him and nothing more. There was no intent behind her actions, in the ritualistic sense that there was for Din, which means she was not baptized. And technically, at least in my eyes, it should be null and void the fact that she went after him into the water. And if the show simply was implying that the water held special magical properties the whole thing feels cheap and fake and I hate it.

I think perhaps a lot of my discontentment with this season and Bo Katan's sudden acceptance into a clan that she had previously considered a cult, looked upon with disgust and disdain, came from the fact that we did not get to see this change resonate enough within Din, not even in the book of Boba Fett. Her being accepted so readily into the clan cheapened everything that we were supposed to care about when it came to Din and his redemption. It was humorous in the way that it felt like a slap in the face and salt on the wound, I can only imagine how frustrated I would be if I were in Din's position.

It also cheapens Bo Katan's character as well. What was the point in never showing us any kind of character development in her and then suddenly sticking her in this clan and making the audience think that that was natural and fine? If this was where her character was going since we introduced to her in season 2 I never saw it coming and I find it a strange diminishing of her character, when she could have been a wonderful foil to Din, an antagonist a roadblock, but also someone who he would eventually have to confide in in order to properly handle his new position with the dark saber and eventually maybe it would lead to them having a dual where Bo Katan could win back the dark saber and everything before worked up to put her back on the throne and she learned valuable life lessons made her more tolerable of more people in the galaxy.

Or maybe she would see how much of a failed leader she's been and would come to accept that Din is the Mand'alor. I don't know. And I never will get to know.

I would say more but I think I have too much to say truthfully. All I know is for the first time I've felt disappointment and disinterest in a show I absolutely adore and it's heartbreaking. But I'm tired of accepting poorly made choices in writing for shows this big though. I'm sick of being told to sit and enjoy it and stop complaining when it genuinely sucks. No matter how much I love it. I'm not happy with it and as a viewer I deserve more than half baked plot points and non existent character arcs.

[autumnwoodsdreamer]

Hi there!

For the asks game:

24, 26, 27 ✌️💕

Writing Ask Game

24. Share a moodboard for (one of) your current WIP(s)

I’ll have to get back to you on the moodboard 🫣😆 I can’t find the post with the links to sites and apps with free-to-use pictures (I don’t want to just pinch off Pinterest. It’s one thing to use pics from there as references but it’s another thing entirely to use them for collages and moodboards or anything else that could count as reposting—I’d just rather play it safe). However, when I do finally hunt down that post, I am DEFINITELY putting together a moodboard for each of my stories (because self-control, who dat?)

26. Is there something you’ve written that you would never want your family to see?

I don’t want anyone to see anything I write ever, but it’s not necessarily because of the content, I’m just really, really scared to open myself up and share something that’s so close to my heart. I can take constructive criticism; I can’t take being misinterpreted or made fun of. Writing is my little safe-space and I try very hard to guard it.

(Except for my little sister.)

(She reads everything I write and I can always count on her for an honest assessment without judgement or a joke at my expense.)

27. Is there a fic you were nervous to post/share? Why?

I am automatically and permanently nervous about everything I post, but the one story I’m most anxious about is Unsinkable. Partly because it’s one of the most ambitious projects I’ve embarked on so far, partly because I’m afraid I’m not gonna get through this story without upsetting some.

The fandom landscape has shifted since Mandalorian season 3. If I wrote a story with Bo-Katan as the antagonist pre-2023, it would’ve been fine, but now… I am not character-bashing—I don’t like that and I don’t want to do that—I’m just writing her in a way that, to me, feels consistent with her characterization prior to season 3—a season loaded with plot points, arcs, and characterizations which still don’t make sense to me—but I know that’s not going to go down well with some; it already hasn’t. And the thing is, I know I shouldn’t be so scared: the story’s had so much support from others left unfulfilled by the show and their kindness means the world to me. I just keep worrying I’m gonna get attacked again.

[corellianhounds]

This episode seems like a waste of Christopher Lloyd’s talent. Lloyd has been an incredible and terrifying villain before in other media but this writing is (still!) juvenile and chose to make him an octogenarian mustache twirler with little actual substance. I know his actual age may put some limitations on what he can feasibly do but he’s a two-second antagonist in another side-quest episode that seems only to serve as a contrived way of getting Bo-Katan the sword and her other Mandalorians back. If you have renowned actor Christopher Lloyd in your show, give him a role with some meat to it

[fellshot]

I have many thoughts about and related to S3E7 of the Mandolorian. This will probably be more speculative and spoilery than previous episode musings but it is what it is.

The plot seems to have gotten that second cup of coffee finally. I still maintain that the first episode of this season was completely useless and that the third episode was misplaced at best. Bo Katan is doing a speed run of the last time we saw a whole story arc with the Dark Saber (ie Rebels with Sabine). I wonder if Filoni can differentiate any of the characters who are not Ashoka outside of their allegiances sometimes, because there’s a lot of rhyming between series that’s coming up and crossing the border with straight up repetition. At least I don’t hate the characters and while their motives are a little repetitive with previous storylines, Din and Bo Katan’s motives do make sense for them (unlike Ashoka, who doesn’t seem to have one of her own at all).

Grogu fans will be happy to know that he now has a mech suit with “yes” and “no” communication aids and that he is happy to use them. The mech is made out of IG-11 from the first season and I for one would think it pretty ghoulish to be using the remains of a character that everyone seems to see as a friend for this sort of thing. I know people taxidermy their deceased pets and there’s jewelry and objects d’art made with the ashes of loved ones, but this seems way beyond that.

And know for the villainous side of the story: Giancarlos Esposito is way too good of an actor for the series and it is fun watching him eat the scenery. I actively hope that Moff Gideon is the real puppet master for Ashoka because he’s a far better political bad guy than Thrawn (who is best as someone else’s second). Given how much of the clone research seems to fall under Gideon’s purview, how much of Heir to the Empire was centered around trying to clone Force adepts, and given how the general consensus seems to be that the Ashoka series will incorporate chunks of Heir to the Empire in it, Gideon as big bad for that series seems like a better fit than Thrawn. Since no one has seen any TIE Defenders (Thrawn’s canon pet imperial project), I’m going to hope for an imposter pulled up by Moff Gideon until it’s proven otherwise. Gideon smugly asking Captain Pellaeon where Thrawn is in the opening scenes of this episode might be foreshadowing or it could be nothing. But it was also pretty obvious that Pellaeon didn’t know where Thrawn is… but Gideon might.

Reactions to this and the Ashoka trailer seem to fall into a couple of camps. First, those who are raving about the Heir to the Empire trilogy seem to have bought in that this is the real Thrawn coming. They are super excited that one of the best villains in Star Wars is going to show up in live action. There’s excitement that Filoni is doing the thing. Some of these folks have perhaps bought into Filoni’s interpretation of “Thrawn as Moriarty.” But the only character that Filoni seems to care about is Ashoka and Ashoka’s major character problem is that she has no motives of her own and no impact on the Star Wars saga as a whole. That last seems to bother Filoni a lot since he shoehorns Ashoka into everything and she doesn’t really have a development arc of her own.

Second are those (like me) who are also familiar with all the other books where Thrawn appears (the 2017 trilogy, the Ascendacy trilogy, the Hand of Thrawn Trilogy, Outbound Flight) who understand that Thrawn couldn’t politic his way past a ten year old and that more importantly Thrawn knows he can’t politic his way past a ten year old, why the hell would he think of himself as “Heir to the Empire.” Zahn sees Thrawn as “Sherlock on the wrong side” and not Moriarty (this is best seen in Thrawn Alliances with the juxtaposition between him and Vader and furthered in Thrawn Treason). The reactions here have been generally less optimistic and more “uh oh.” Filoni doesn’t seem to do nuanced antagonists, but Zahn absolutely writes Thrawn as multifaceted and perhaps more importantly Zahn writes Thrawn with an understanding that he can absolutely change sides if given the right push and that Thrawn does learn from his mistakes. More significantly, Thrawn tries to fix them when they are brought to his attention (Eli Vanto’s long delayed promotion is a good example). I kind of doubt that’s going to be the case at all given the show runners.

I still want Ar’Alani to show up and kick all the Imperial ass though.

[qulrikkek]

Season 3 of the Mandalorian could have been the BEST... (PART 1)

The potential was there. (But I have a feeling Disney meddled with the story...)

I have seen many fans bashing this season on valid reasons. For example the biggest issue is that the main character of the show, Din has been sidelined along with Grogu.

Don't get me wrong, choosing to make Bo Katan a main character was a good move.

BUT she should have REMAINED A main character and not become THE main character. Yes, her background makes her a very interesting person to play around with, BUT it would have been SO EASY to still maintain Din and Grogu's status as main characters while adding Bo's to the equation.

So it is the least to say that I'm frustrated. Especially, since I'm a writer, and I see where and how Din and Grogu should have been given more screen time!

No, I wouldn't rewrite the whole season, because now that almost all episodes are out, I can see what Jon and Dave were meaning to do with the story. And the direction is a good one. The message that together we are stronger was better choice than making Bo an antagonist.

BUT THE WAY they got to their desired direction...

I would rather do an IMPROVEMENT on the screenplay.

The issues that would need to be tackled are the following;

Let's start with minor details;

1. Characters repeat themselves unnecessary.

(Especially prominent in Episode 2 and 6)

2. Unaddressed tensions are never explained or confronted.

(Why has Bo never mentioned the mythosaur to Din? Why has she never revealed why she wouldn't duel with him for the Darksaber? Why would the Armorer let Bo take off her helmet, when she had an issue with Din taking it off? What does the Armorer mean by walking both worlds? ((I understand what Jon and Dave meant here but to the general audience this could still be confusing)) Why was Bo accepted into the Covert so easily? Why has no one tried to confront her about her past mistakes? Why has no one brought it up that she was in Death Watch and is responsible for Mandalore to fall into the hands of a Sith? Why has no one mentioned Duchess Satine? What was the purpose of Grogu's flashback? Why was Persing's storyline abandoned for so long? Why does Gideon only show up in Episode 7? How did Captain Carson Teva know that Din had a astrometh droid which he served with in the Rebellion? )

3. Using the same device to create action/tension.

Episode 1 Monster from the water tries to eat a child.

Episode 2 Monster robot captures Din.

(Mythosaur appearance, which is another monster figure, but at least it doesn't attack.)

Episode 4 Monster that can fly captures the same kid which was almost eaten in Episode 1.

Episode 7 Monster has no purpose other than smashing the ship they were traveling with which scares the Mandalorians into going underground.

4. Wholesome moments between Din and Grogu have become rare. Too rare.

We can see that Grogu gets closer and closer to Bo physically, but WHY? They only talked in Episode 2 and 4, but none after that. So it's feels unjustified when he eventually ends up sitting in her lap.

5. Grogu rarely does anything that drives the narrative (for most of the season) Only in Episode 1 and 2 has more prominent role, and then in 4, then in 7.)

6. Din's character seems clumsy. (Which he shouldn't be since previous seasons established him as a badass bounty hunter!)

He has to be rescued over and over again.

7. Where are the rest of the characters?

Greef Karga has a very minor role compared to previous seasons.

No Cara, no Fennec, no Boba, no Mayfield... etc.

8. Episode 6.

Yes, the whole episode is... Huh... A mess to say the least.

Why is Din just accompanying Bo to her mission to recruit her former fleet? How did he take the whole 'she can take her helmet off', but apparently not him?

The mood is all over the place. It begins with a happy tone then by the time Bo and Din go to the Mandalorian fleet, it becomes serious again, while the setting is still in broad harsh daylight, which was applied throughout the whole episode so it gives off happy vibes, while Bo and Axe duel!!!

There are too many guest stars, which take the audience out of the star wars experience.

The detective story doesn't make sense, because if the Duchess and her Captain had known for a while now that they were having problems with their droids... Had it not occured to no one to check the fluids that the droids drink to update themselves???

Why did Commissioner Heilgait folded so quickly after being confronted by the Duchess? Why would he be sorry? He had just said a few minutes ago that he would not give up not the corrupt Republic not to the Empire... This action makes him appear to be a weak antagonist...

Why had Axe not denied Bo and challenged Din instead?

Why doesn't Axe confront Bo why is she refusing to duel with Din???

Why hadn't Din gave the Darksaber back to Bo earlier if he had known that she won it from him?

9. In Episode 5 and 7 during the attacks against the Mandalorians, they should have used their jetpacks much more. They stay on the ground for far too long as if they had forgotten they have them on their backs.

10. No one else has dialogue in the Mandalorian Covert other than Paz, the Armorer, Din, and Bo. It's hard to care about the rest of them and their fate and culture if they are not given agency.

11. DIN AND BO RARELY TALK WITH EACH OTHER. They rather TALK TO EACH OTHER.

Therefore their interactions remain surface level. So when it comes to their implied romantic attraction to each other it's nowhere near as strong as it could have been had the writers made them have meaningful conversations (like in Episode 7).

Also, since the romantic attraction between them were hinted in a so subtile manner... A lot of people might have missed those clues and so Din's pledge to Bo may seem to be coming out of the blue...

The audience would have needed the cameras to linger a lot longer on them when they exchange looks etc...

12. DIN DOESN'T DRIVE THE NARRATIVE AND HIS DIALOGUE IS TOO FEW.

He seems to have lost his meaning... Other than to be at Bo's side, supporting her.

PART 2 is coming soon, where I'll try to improve these things.

[oflgtfol]

"Bo'katan as Mand'alor" I barely even know what these words mean just from you yelling about them so much but NAW. NAW. THEY'RE REALLY GONNA DO THAT? ON GOD? THEY'RE GONNA SIDELINE THE MAIN CHARACTER OF THE PLOTS THAT DIRECTLY LEAD INTO THAT IN HIS OWN SHOW FOR SOMEONE WHO DIDN'T DO THE PROVE THEIR WORTH THINGS????????

sorry anon i'm going to use this as an opportunity to fully outline why bo-katan becoming mand'alor doesn't sit right with me

1. she was a terrorist. i really don't care if a former terrorist goes through character growth and moves beyond that phase in their life, like the damage has been done. i think you can move past it and grow from it, but you shouldn't be in a position of leadership afterwards, i feel like that should just be a consequence that you have to live with and should be part of the process of growing from it. and if you can't accept it, then that proves you didn't actually learn your lesson and you still need more self improvement until you finally CAN accept it and have fully moved on from it. it's just bad taste to have a literal former terrorist become like, the main leader of their people

2. prior to s3, the show was setting up a character arc for din to become mand'alor. there are several subpoints to this:

2A. moff gideon. the darksaber showed up several episodes before bo-katan herself did, in the hands of the antagonist who, while an enemy of all mandalorians due to his role in the great purge, is set up as a much more personal antagonist to din in particular. moff gideon is din's antagonist, in the pure Character As A Narrative Tool view of storytelling. he is introduced in din's show, he is the one to tell not only the other characters, but even the audience din's name, and he is hunting din's child of all force-sensitive children in the galaxy. the fight between din and moff gideon is, in the broader scope of things, Mandalorian vs. Mandalorian Genocider, but it is also a much more personal conflict between the two of them in particular that transcends all that. so when moff gideon has the darksaber, din is also automatically tied to it by association.

2B. grogu. the darksaber was crafted by the only mandalorian jedi so far, and synthesizes both jedi and mandalorian teachings into one singular weapon. din, coincidentally, has a force-sensitive child who was raised as a jedi youngling and is now a mandalorian foundling. grogu himself is a synthesize of both the jedi and the mandalorians. as grogu learn more about being a mandalorian, it makes sense then for din, a mandalorian, to reflect something of the jedi himself in exchange. the darksaber symbolizes the union of the two cultures just as din&grogu's relationship does as well.

2C. chapters 14-16. the end of s2 has din lose literally EVERYTHING. he loses the razor crest, his home for god knows how long. he loses his child. he loses his sense of identity/connection to his culture/general spiritual autonomy+privacy after removing his helmet. chapter 16 leaves him a gutted shell of a man with literally nothing left because he has lost everything, and all he has to show for it is the darksaber and the claim to a throne he never wanted. it creates this really interesting arc going forward for him that was then continued into bobf chapter 5, where he struggles with wielding the darksaber because he doesn't want it. it sets this clear path going forward: that din's arc coming up is about dealing with the emotional fallout of chapter 16, unpacking all the baggage that prevents the darksaber from cooperating, and eventually coming back into his own skin again and becoming more confident in his role with the darksaber, even if still unwanted. there was such a clear arc. there was so much buildup to this arc. they made this man lose literally EVERYTHING to make his darksaber acquisition hit all the more. it would go to such WASTE if this arc never gets put into play, like what was the fucking point of all that then if nothing actually comes to fruition about it? what was the point?!?!?!

3. it's literally his show! if you're going to make The Mandalorian plot-heavy about reuniting mandalore, it just makes sense to make the, oh i don't know, the MAIN CHARACTER, the active driver of the plot of his own show? if you want to introduce this plotline and have some other character drive it, then this show is not the place to do it. i cannot stress enough, i don't care how vague the title is, this is literally din's show and you're being bull headed if you try to claim otherwise. so following from that logic, it is downright just bad writing to then relegate the main character to nothing but a background character and just switch pov with zero warning, zero foreshadowing, zero anything at all. if you introduce a plot to a character's show, then i expect said character to be heavily involved in that plot (which is also my problem with the whole dr. pershing episode - like what the fuck is happening, this is not the place for that) and considering the stakes of chapter 16, then you logically lead the audience to assume the role din will be playing in that narrative. to pull the rug out from under us, switch main characters with no warning, give the plot that had been building up for din to a different character, it's just well it's asinine it's bad writing it's unfathomably bad writing

4. underdog narrative. this is a bit more subjective but i personally find it so much more compelling to root for the underdog character. bo-katan was raised as royalty, as a full-blooded mandalorian raised on mandalore itself, and overall comes from a much more privileged background than din. din was adopted into the culture as a recently orphaned child, was raised in a fringe group on one of mandalore's moons instead, and was overall less economically advantaged due to 1. just simply Not Being Royalty, and 2. being a fringe group, and 3. after the great purge, literally being hunted and on the run for basic survival. we see this in his original armor, it's beat the fuck up, it's grungy and not pure beskar, it gets destroyed and its dingy and dirty and mismatched ramshackled together. he simply does not have the resources that bo-katan did. he was forced to work as a bounty hunter to provide for his people, forced to do dirty work and compromise on his morals just to get money and do nothing but survival on the most basic level. he and his covert lived in the SEWERS. contrasrt these two characters: one, a royal princess with prestigious heritage and the expectation of ruling, the other an orphaned adoptee, sole provider of his people as they struggle to survive, surviving off scraps and living paycheck to paycheck. to then have the underdog come out on top with the darksaber, this shining symbol of his people and apparent path to leadership, is just well. it's satisfying! the man never wanted or expected leadership, but it's rewarding to see him come out on top anyway. it's just fun to see this absolute nobody become leader compared to the disgraced royal

5. she doesn't work for it. considering everything i have already said - bo-katan's history of terrorism, her overall position of privilege from the get-go - to narratively reward her requires her to work for it. and she doesn't. there is zero discussion about her terrorism and her baggage with it, there's no atonement or even guilt besides maybe the "im sick of the infighting" which is the most blasé, centrist, apolitical, boring, one-line allusion to her past that they could possibly shoehorn in, and could just as easily be her blaming the opposition to death watch as it is her being guilty about being part of death watch. she gets hold of the darksaber in chapter 18 and just naturally works well with it despite the years despite the terrorism, she's just naturally badass for whatever reason. they could remedy this: have her have wielded it with zero problem in the past, but have her struggle now as a sign of her internal conflict due to her past, just as din struggling with the darksaber is a sign of his own internal conflict regarding his hesitation to lead. but no, they don't do anything interesting with it, they don't take the time to explore her inner psyche in this new era. she just naturally wields it really epicly. likewise, we don't see her really get to evolve as a more inclusive leader post-death watch. she bonds with din's people, sure, but it's all under din's supervision, not her own. the most she personally did was scope out the nest of the creature that had taken ragnar, and then lead that mission, which like, yay! that was a cool scene for her development. but then in the next episode, the whole "lets expand beyond living in the caves, lets see the sunlight and enjoy life again" plan is from DIN. but everyone is like, oh it's bo-katan's idea too, when like she didnt even utter a word in that conversation? and then the end of that episode, suddenly bo-katan is leading the effort to reunite mandalore again? as if din wasn't just the one to secure them a new, safer home? as if it wasn't din's idea in the first place?

overall, all my external subjective hesitations aside, i guess if they made her rise to be mand'alor again like, an actual cool arc, then maybe i wouldn't so opposed. after all, that's also what i wanted with din, and so even if din does wind up becoming mand'alor in this show i'll still be unhappy with it to some extent. regardless of who becomes mand'alor i need, NEED a journey of growth and self-discovery that ends in this person becoming a great leader, not out of a quest for power or anything, but out of love and hope for their people and the desire to see their people safe again after so many years of hardship. i want the journey to becoming mand'alor be intensely reflective and philosophical.

for din, this takes the form of him being reluctant to step into the spotlight after years of fading into the background, of being a nobody who kept his head down and only ever lived to survive. who's used to being a loner, needing to make moral compromises, of being scrappy and rough around the edges. his intense duty to providing for his people, while at the same time being set apart from them, never quite fitting in. his character growth begins with grogu: of learning to find love and companionship again after years of being alone. to then take this to a broader scale, of not just companionship, but community; finally stepping into the spotlight and follow his duty to its ultimate finish line, from providing for and protecting his small covert, to providing for and protecting his whole people.

for bo-katan, this takes the form of someone who has good intentions, but fell down the wrong path along the way. of realizing the damage her past actions did, and atoning for it. she was a leader before, but she went about it the wrong way and everyone else paid the price for it. now, she rises to leadership again as a changed person, having learned the value of community and camaraderie with fellow mandalorians, regardless of their backgrounds, and finding that strength comes from the people. she learns to be more tolerant, more welcoming, more accepting, and in doing so finds that leadership comes so much easier, and so much more rewarding, than it ever was before. and only now can she finally carry out those good intentions that she started out with and earn peace

but instead, bo-katan maybe sort of is learning to respect din's people, which is maybe sort of leaning to her becoming more accepting of cultural practices that deviate from her own, but it can also maybe sort of be interpreted by a non-negligible percentage of the audience as her just going along with the flow due to being indoctrinated into a violent cult, so. and even besides all that there has been zero reflection on death watch so far.

and instead, din is doing fuck all. no mention of the darksaber no mention of what happened to him in chapters 14-16 no mention of his thoughts on leadership and community. he's literally just standing there and delivering the most basic, stilted and janky dialogue known to man

so as it stands, neither din NOR bo-katan are getting what i want out of this arc.

[direwolfrules]

Star Wars As Star Trek AU: The War

So, the war between the Federation and the Confederacy is supposed to be an important part of this AU, but I've been neglecting it in favor of writing some bizarre (and terrible) hybridization of Mandalorian-Klingon culture/history that no one's read. Like, seriously I spent four hours that could have been spent sleeping on that.

Anyway, the war is a thing that's been brewing for a while now. The Confederacy started as a Separatist movement a few centuries ago. The founding of the movement is widely credited to the Sith, who found the Federation's ideals and priorities to be in conflict with their own. The worlds that would become the Confederacy were allowed to secede no-contest because of a clause in the Federation charter.

Then there was a minor war (by minor I of course mean billions died), which was resolved by the Treaty of Coruscant, and the creation of the Neutral Zone.

Starfleet Admiral Dooku shocks everyone when he resigns his commission and retires to his homeworld of Serenno, where he claims his family's ancestral title. This is made possible by the convenient death of Dooku's elder brother via a previously undetected heart condition two days before his arrival (Maybelline commercial voice: maybe he's born with it, maybe it's Palpatine). The Serennan people under his leadership proceed to defect to the Confederacy.

A few months later, a Federation vessel's running a standard border patrol near the Neutral Zone before suddenly falling out of contact. The next thing anyone knows, the ship's destroyed along with a Geonosian City, and President Dooku of the Confederacy of Independant Systems is declaring war upon the Federation.

The Confederacy still uses battle droids, but also uses more organics than in Star Wars. A ship could have a mostly droid crew complement but organic officers in charge. This is mostly because I want Lux Bonteri's dad to be a reoccurring character. Captain Aavus Bonteri of the CSS Zakkeg keeps showing up and battles between him and the Resolute normally end one of two ways, either the Zakkeg is limping home or the Resolute is. He's not a Grievous level threat, more like he's there to pad out the organic officer count and I still need him to be a threat so, competent military man it is!

And like, having Lux's dad live and be an active antagonist to the crew of the Resolute kinda makes the whole Heroes on Both Sides thing be even more interesting. Lux is basically Ahsoka's "what could have been, we'll always have Risa" relationship. We all think he's bad for her, but god damn does this girl not think with her head when he shows up. Rex and Anakin are left shaking their heads because goddamnit their baby sister has terrible taste in romantic partners.

At one point Satine shows up as a neutral mediator, and she's hanging out in 79's after a grueling day of negotiations, and she overhears Anakin and Rex commiserating about how Ahsoka really just needs to date someone bland for a bit. For all their sakes. And Satine, who managed to convince bartender/mystic Fay to break out the actual alcohol, jumps into the conversation with tales of Bo-Katan's failed romantic endeavors. They just start comparing the dumpster fires that are their little siblings' love lives. 10/10, the next morning hungover Anakin tells Obi-Wan he should marry Satine.

[rebelsofshield]

Star Wars The Mandalorian: “Chapter 18: The Mines of Mandalore” - Review

A slow to start episode of The Mandalorian, eventually finds its footing with strong visuals and a solid performance by Katee Sackhoff

Din Djarin sets out on his plan to cleanse himself in the subterranean waters of Mandalore, but first must make a pit stop to pick up a droid that can sense if the atmosphere is safe for himself and his young companion.

Look, I love Amy Sederis. She’s maybe one of the most charming actresses in Hollywood. But I’m losing my enthusiasm for Pelli Motto. As fun as our goofy little mechanic has been, Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni have been writing pretty much the same material for her for four seasons now if you count The Book of Boba Fett. If we are going to have the same comedic character play a recurring role in our show, then at least give them some new jokes or gags.

Anyways, point being, my investment in the first act of “The Mines of Mandalore” was pretty minimal. Din bartering with Pelli over a droid that cameo’d in A New Hope so he can test the toxicity levels of a planet that he needs to go to for a quest is pretty much the exact encapsulation of everything that Favreau’s storytelling has struggled with over the last few years. It’s not offensively bad, but it’s aggressively uninteresting.

Luckily, once Din arrives on Mandalore things start to take a turn for the better. It’s hard to overstate just how great this season looks. While The Mandalorian rarely struggled with the sort of bland or ugly production that plagued shows like The Book of Boba Fett or Obi-Wan Kenobi, this season marks a clear uptick in its cinematic scope and scale. Characters feel much more a part of their environments and these alien landscapes and the various creatures and droids that inhabit them are rendered with fantastic detail and effects. As soon as Din and Grogu descend into the mines only to fend off subterranean goblins and a truly creepy cybernetic, vampiric spider (?), “The Mines of Mandalore” start to feel like the sort of enjoyable pulp that I turn to this series for. It also helps that Rachel Morrison certainly directs the hell out of this episode. She gives the environment an aesthetic that feels not unlike a dark 80s fantasy adventure epic mixed with unnerving creature designs that feel not that far removed from Phil Tippet’s claymation horror masterpiece, Mad God.

It’s also a fun twist that Grogu has to escape on his own and drag Bo-Katan Kryze along to rescue his capture adopted father. As much as I would have liked to see Bo-Katan positioned as more of a seasonal antagonist, it is nice to see her, Grogu, and Din unite as their own group. Katee Sackhoff is a great actress and she brings a level of lived in familiarity to this cynical former Mandalorian ruler that really shines through. Whether it’s her surprising comfort with Grogu and his attachment to the Force (as she puts it she’s fought alongside Jedi for good in the past) or her subtle jabs and frustrations with Din’s differing perspective on Mandalorian culture or history, Sackhoff’s Bo-Katan is one of the more interesting characters that The Mandalorian is playing with right now and Favreau would be smart to keep her around as much as possible. And this is all before she slices up the formerly mentioned cybernetic vampire spider with the Darksaber.

It’s also appreciated that we don’t spend too much more time spinning our wheels on Din’s mission to cleanse himself of his transgressions. By episode’s end he has been submerged (maybe more so than he bargained for) in the waters of Mandalore’s mines, but in the process has discovered something even more intriguing. There’s a living Mythosaur in the planets murky depths. The sacred beast of Mandalorian culture lives and with it hope for the planet;s (and maybe the show’s) future.

Score: B

[sandwrrm]

from the ask list thing— bo-katan, for whichever ones you want/all:D

Aaaaa thank you! I did almost all of them but left out a few that I couldn't think of anything good for. Without further ado--

— a fun headcanon

She is really good at video games, especially FPS and strategy games (naturally.) She grew up kind of a loner and spent most of her teens holed up in her room not knowing what to do with herself, and this was one of her major pastimes.

— a sad headcanon

The scar on her forehead came from a near-miss of being fatally stabbed during an attack on the palace during the civil war, when she was only about 6-7. Fortunately she managed to dodge just enough for the blade to graze her skin and nothing worse. (I have a lot of uh. much sadder headcanons from this same night/event, but I’m not revealing them yet because I want to turn them into a proper fic >:D )

— a headcanon that canon doesn't disprove (yet lol, this could change in mando s3 now that we’re getting more Bo history)

She joined Death Watch ~4-5 years before TCW canon, but continued to feign a normal life in Sundari and a relationship (albeit a strained and not-very-close one) with Satine while actively double-crossing her and plotting to overthrow her behind her back. Satine didn’t find out any of this until right after the shit went down with Death Watch being exposed in general.

— a headcanon to spite canon, specifically

She is somewhere between 23-26 during TCW. Not 17. Not the same age as Satine. Early to mid 20’s. I will die on this hill.

— a headcanon about their family

Mom Kryze was not born a Mandalorian, she was the eldest daughter of a prominent Kalevalan noble family, and was adopted into the culture when she married Adonai... who was not a Duke until he married into her family, just an influential warlord and the head of clan Kryze.

— a missing scene that definitely happened

Not so much a headcanon but a speculation… something fucking intense must have gone down for her to lose the darksaber to Moff Gideon because?? she’s amazing at weilding it as we now see???

— I recognize canon has made a decision, but given that it's a stupid-ass decision, I've elected to ignore it (+ what should have happened)

This is a bit controversial but in my headcanons, I tend to massively dial down her regret, deradicalization, and general arc towards redemption in favor of keeping her unhinged and villainous, just a bit more subdued with age. She’s just so fun and entertaining to me when she’s terrible….. I am happy with the direction they're taking her in current canon too though!

— something they believe about [other character] that isn't true

I headcanon that she had a lot of irrational, sometimes bordering on delusional, hate for her sister that often wasn’t based on anything true, but was founded on a twisted and dramatized misinterpretation of things she believed to be true about Satine and her actions, intentions, ideology, etc.

— their happiest memory

Having her dad's armor reforged to fit her and putting it on for the first time. I feel like it was kind of a “second birth” moment for her.

— favorite fanon relationship

I fucking live for anyone who writes Death Watch era Bo and Gar Saxon as antagonistic barely-frenemies who constantly give each other hell, I don’t know why it’s so funny and perfect to me but it is

— favorite should have been canon relationship

God. listen. not to get on my bullshit but Bo/Pre Vizsla…. Yes as a romantic ship because I'm trash of them, but I also just think more of their relationship and their past together “should have been canon” in the sense that I wish it was explained and fleshed out more, no matter what the nature of their relationship was. I’m dying to know what their history is, how they met, how Bo joined Death Watch, how she ended up his second-in-command, etc. I’m happy with my headcanons but I want to know what officially went down too!

Ask Meme post for anyone who wants it!

[mandalorianchronicles]

On the next episode of The Mandalorian: Din is back to side quests looking for other Mandos with Bo-Katan! I am so excited for the story that is unfolding here. True, I still don't entirely trust the Armorer, but Bo-Katan is finding her way back to the path she was set on a long time ago, and I couldn't be prouder of her. She has experienced every extreme of Mandalorian culture - seen the good, the bad, and the ugly - and she knows what her people need now more than anything is unity and forgiveness. It is time for a change, and she is the perfect person to lead them through that, but not alone.

I do not understand the corner of the fandom that insists she is still an antagonist. She has done nothing but sacrifice and put her life on the line for her people for thirty years since the end of The Clone Wars, and some y'all are acting like Death Watch happened yesterday and she didn't already complete her redemption arc in Rebels. The writers are literally beating us over the head with this image of a strong, devoted, reliable, and intelligent leader and half of you think she's getting ready to double cross them any second.

Homeboy Din Djarin came out of the gate in s2 accusing Bo-Katan of not being Mandalorian, and some of you actually ate that BS up and others think it's terrible that she teased him for believing that. Din Djarin aside, Mandalorians aren't exactly known for being super polite people, but for all Bo's teasing about his extreme religious notions, she has always included, valued, and protected him since the day they met. He requested to join her when he was an apostate, after all.

She's dragged as being a hypocrite for saying that she was sad that her people had been fighting each other for so long for reasons too complicated to explain, when she was saying the same thing in Rebels. She acknowledged her failures and her mistakes and wished she had been different. Sabine and Bo-Katan had parallel redemption arcs in Rebels and either you didn't bother to watch it, or you forgot, or you were too blinded by your own headcanons to receive the story the writers were telling.

And now you're doing it again. The writers are telling a story. They aren't being subtle about it, either. It may not be the story *you* wanted, but that doesn't make it a bad story. What is Star Wars if not an ongoing saga about redemption, the chance to right old wrongs, and the will to build something better out of the ashes of what came before? If you don't like Bo-Katan being at the center of that story in Mandalore's chapter, you should probably quit watching this show now. I, for one, am going to sit back and enjoy a fully fleshed out redemption/restoration story with one of the best written and most complex characters to ever come out of Star Wars.

Our people have strayed from the Way and it is not enough for a few to walk it. We must walk the Way together, all Mandalorians. I was taught that the Mythosaur existed only in legends, and yet you saw it. It is a sign that the next age is upon us. Mandalore must all come together. You have walked both ways. You are the one who can unite us.

THE MANDALORIAN (2019– ) S03E05: The Pirate