#bloodborne observation

[katyspersonal]

who do you think fucked up worse…gehrman or maria?

This is an interesting question, and I kind of didn't think of it before! Time to take a closer look at their crimes I guess. Some of these will be held on the possibilities and 'safe assumptions' though and addressed for the full picture!

1) Both were involved in Fishing Hamlet massacre!

With Maria, we can conclude as much because she discarded her weapons in the well at the place specifically. Her version in the Nightmare realm, a Hunter again, is supposed to be what punishes her, and she is focused on keeping Kos/OoK away from rummaging through. Considering the nature of the Nightmare, as well as the Doll who has spiritual connection with her, it should come from her guilt and regrets rather than.. I dunno, discarding the hunt over natural 'character development' and just picking a cool place to forsaken her past!

Gehrman sleeps better according to the dialogue Doll has after you kill OoK and free it's soul, so if it tortured him so, I think it is safe to say he had to be personally involved too rather than stay back while his students did the job:

They both were involved with Byrgenwerth, following their quest for obtaining the eyes of the dwellers from their skulls, and I suppose cord of OoK?

The thing about this point is that the description is written as though it was Gehrman's curiosity which ruined Maria's "idealisation" of him, or WOULD ruin it had she learned of it! This makes me wonder whether she was really involved in Byrgenwerth all that much, or whether she was aware of the real purpose of Fishing Hamlet massacre beforehand? Her goal, within the Nightmare, is stated to mercy-kill us so we don't allow that curiousity corrupt us to the point of "rummaging through corpse" and similar things, further supported by her visceral attack being an embrace if it is lethal!

I am just saying that here the balance might slightly shift towards making Gehrman 'worse' than her. Maybe she was not aware that it all was not just killing "monsters" but also a pregnant mother with her divine baby, but "well you didn't ask :/". Maybe Gehrman deceived her to use her aid. Maybe he didn't think it would be a big deal for her seeing that Maria was also interested in evolution through talking with Great Ones, and assumed she'd be just as callous about which means to accomplish the goals with?

2) Both were grave-robbing, or at least okay with that!

This one is a little less obvious, but Tomb Prospectors were not the first to go to the Chalice Dungeons! ...It were actually Willem, Dores and Gatekeeper lol:

BUT ALSO it were Old Hunters! We can see the remnants of it by Old Hunter Vitus being one the summons in Chalice Dungeons, hear Gehrman encourage us to go into the Chalice Dungeons to become stronger as via "tradition" of the Old Hunters,

and the fact that one of the things that torture Maria (again, remember that Nightmare Realm is Hell that punishes) is a Chalice:

(A video ( x ) for a better look at the Chalice from a figure)

I'd say that it is not very nice to disturb the undead Pthumerians just struggling in remains of their civilisation! Interesting thing: we can conclude they are even staying there to protect the Great Ones or their remains!

There has been some sort of civil war between ancient great-ones-respecting Pthumerians and who late became Cainhurst nobles! Maria, ironically, fell onto the side of "entitled guys" descendants! But yes, I could see why bullying zombie guys to get more history and archeology relics from them might not seem like much for her at start. Experience in the Fishing Hamlet likely retroactively ruined this period of her life for her: delving into Chalice Dungeons was likewise 'not leaving the corpse alone'. The remaining Pthumerians were right having some honour and dignity. So, that came to haunt her in the form of Pthumeru Chalice. Gehrman is.. well he's here too I guess dfshfdhs

3) Both knew a little too much about Laurence's shady business and did nothing?

Old Hunters used to be friends with Healing Church's Hunters and even had their workshops located close to one another! Gehrman was friends with Laurence and Ludwig, who are both quite strongly involved with Moon Presence (Ludwig's sword and guidance, Laurence's affiliation being known since Byrgenwerth times), as well as the key figure in creation of Hunter's Dream:

This was most likely a bait-and-switch, seeing how the cord itself is still in the real Workshop, and not in the grasp of Moon Presence (unlike, say, Wet Nurse taking Mergo's cord)! I think the purpose of creation of the Hunter's Dream was to "buy time" for the research conceived by the scientists! Remember: Gehrman was known to have "madness of curiosity" that Maria resented, or at least would resent had she known! He might have been fully aware of what Laurence wanted to do and support it! My point here, that with such proximity, he must have known of all Laurence's crimes and agreed with them!

Maria was at least overseer of the Clocktower's Research Hall, which, again, was just beta!Choir.

This last line IS a bit confusing, because it makes it sound as though the nerds looking for the Eyes Inside and the Blood Ministers got split. Laurence and Ludwig make it weird, as Moon Presence is also an Eldrich creature and Ludwig is for sure full of eyes! What also makes it strange is that Choir, and then School of Mensis, are both upper echelons of the Healing Church, but Laurence is supposed to be above both of them.

I think this can be worked with! Let's say what if Choir formed after Laurence's death, which also happened after Maria's death, and Vicars after him were somewhat "powerless" and walked over by Choir and Mensis, only leaders in the name! But that still leaves the bit that the mentioned "division" happened after Choir was formed! Maria and Adeline, however, are locked to the existence of the Research Hall, so, the timeframe when doctors and blood ministers were 100% working together! We find the Eye Pendant that opens the access to the Research Hall in Laurence's hand, and human Skull of Laurence on the platform that hides the secret elevator to that Research Hall. Again, by the Nightmare Logic, they must be connected with Laurence's sins: he started this research, or sponsored it, or was overseeing it, and so on.

This point is not an absolute thing though, because one or both of them might be freed from guilt here. Maybe Gehrman was not as informed and agreeable as we could assume and Laurence did lead him around? Maybe Maria wanted but could not do anything being caught in the web of complicated connections, blackmail and risks for the people she cared about?

4) Both are willingly involved in questionable practices (Maria with research, Gehrman with the cycle of Dream and Hunt)

This point I feel like transcends the morality a little bit, as it touches the matter of 'it is bad if you do it, but it is also bad if you DON'T do it'. I really love Soulsborne universes for having guts to say "you can't win, just pick your poison", but I think it is still worth addressing!

It is up to interpretation in which quantity Maria is involved with the Research Hall! Nothing states whether she founded it, joined in the research later, stepped in and turned the tides (ba dum tss) of the research, or simply was a caretaker/nurse/etc of the broken mess while Research Hall was getting ready for a bit of rebranding. She can be very guilty, or she can be barely guilty but in either case if that was her "redemption arc" that was a pretty bad way to go about it. ...or was it?

Fauxsefka turns people into Celestial Emissaries so they physically can't become beasts instead, and is even stated to be a hero / heroic researcher by Miyazaki:

First, I don't do Death of the Author (in terms of interpreting media I mean, not in terms of a style of writing)! Like, nope. Never. It is just not for me. Creator's word is the final for me; Fauxsefka is the good guy in the story, apparently, and it makes sense considering the fundamentally broken place characters are in! Maria has similarities with Fauxsefka: not only both of them have Cainhurst roots, but also both of them seem to favour 'Stars' line of evolution for humans!

Whereas other patients are afraid of the horrors of the Deep Sea, a concept Miyazaki could not get over well into DS3, Adeline desires them! Other patients seems to have gotten it right, and you can see one of them also clings to Maria mentally to "not drown"; Adeline "didn't understand"! The balcony that Maria wants Adeline to go to so she can forsaken the Deep Sea and seek something "happier" holds unique kind of patients who can shoot cosmic arcane spells:

Herself, Maria is associated with these lumenflowers: their petals are all over her boss arena, and the way to her lays through a much bigger batch of flowers, where Living Failures, other 'Stars' Kin are, whose song lyrics also feature lines 'ave stellar' and 'ave Maria'!

So, how this is different from what Fauxsefka is doing, who is stated to be as much of a good person as possible within this context and with the burden of her knowledge? Fauxsefka was doing more or less rinse-and-repeat practice, with maybe a few patients not surviving the procedure but we don't know what happened: maybe that person was already at the brink of death and she tried to make them live like this.

^ This guy I mean. Maria, on the other hand, is in the time period where the doctors and scientists were only testing the waters (BA DUM TSSS) (ok I will stop) and it was not SO certain what was at the stake, what were the alternatives, what was awaiting the humanity. It is even possible that the beasts problem was not yet bad to the point of "you'll either become a beast, be eaten by a beast or become a Kin, humanity is DONE for!" ! This was an unethical research at the cost of real people! The weight of Maria's sin here really depends on the interpretation, though

As for the cycle of Dream and Hunt, this is complicated and lingers on one's interpretation of what the purpose of the Dream even IS! Its existence provides two things: 1) a hunter who is immortal for the night, thus can sustain the beasts with efficiency like no other, but also effect the continuity of the night ( x ) and 2) supposed sustenance to the Great One Flora of the Moon, who holds the hunt as a concept!

I used to be a bit more set on the idea that if beasts are not sustained and hunted, they will simply overpower those who are yet humans and eat them! It is a self-feeding cycle of people needing to self-defend from beasts, thus having to consume the blood as urgent means of healing and power-up since beasts are too strong, thus risking to become beasts themselves because the blood they consumed during that hunt corrupts them. So, the Hunter's Dream would be a good thing, as it'd help to 'buy time' during nights of the hunt in which not only beasts are more active but Great Ones too! While the Dreaming Hunter holds everything together, the greatest minds of the Healing Church can efficiently study the ways to end beasthood, or ANY problem of humanity, once and for all! It is just better to throw the hunting resources on the Dream, so the scientists don't worry about the beasts and can focus on research. However, I almost forgot that:

This implies that had there not been Mensis Ritual ongoing, people WOULD have the chance to simply 'wait away' the beasthood problem. That, since Rom is not stopping Mensis Ritual but just conceals it, what really makes the inner beast within everyone who consumed the blood inevitably come out is Mergo's cry that draws the Bloodmoon close!

So yeah, the point about Hunter's Dream being helpful for the research of evolution still stands, especially under assumption that the deal with Moon Presence helped to bring more Eldrich Arcane close for "feeding" her. The point about how if the beasts are not hunted they'll simply eat everyone, though, is vague. It is safer to assume that the Hunter's Dream and Research Hall both are both example of hubris of man even if approached differently. Attempts to draw in something dangerous and horrifying, but it is "justified risk" because if you manage to 'tame' arcane/blood, sure, humanity will prosper!

Like... yeah, sure, there IS dangerous and undesireable nature of man that ruins everything and might or might not still linger in humanoids' genes after Loran. But did humanity ASK any of you guys to keep trying to fix it with so many victims and sacrifices? Like, was it WORTH it?

This point is closely tied to 'knowing Laurence's bad antics and doing nothing', yeah. Maria didn't seem to like blood ministration very much, as she disapproved of Adeline becoming a Blood Saint, but she also didn't even approve of blood antics of her own clan! I am not sure what would be her opinion on the Hunter's Dream had she lived to the point when it was created, just that she herself is not willing to ever hunt, so I am leaving this point aside. Is this just blood ministration that she opposes but proximity with a Great One Moon Presence would be something she can see the potential of? Or would she and Gehrman have a pointless cat fight about whose methods are better when they are both hubris of man? In both versions they are 'guilty'! Besides:

In the end none of THIS matters either and everyone was fooled ( x ). The blood offering is a blood offering in any way; whether it is through spilling blood violently during the hunt, or offering the blood's 'red' with how celestial Kin all bleed red. Moon doesn't care what paints it red, in the end.

___________________________________

My conclusion is: both of these characters fucked up almost equally! I think the balance shifts just a little bit and Maria is slightly better than Gehrman since she had some limitations set on how far she was willing to go. Her motivation was not in "curiosity" but strictly in helping humanity, even if in unfair ways, which is apparently not the case for Gehrman?

I'll say this though, NOW I am hooked on the idea of Maria and Gehrman being petty "rivals" ideologically (for as long as they could before Maria's own demons caught up with her). Especially since neither approach is better than the other and they are both cringe loosers! Again, lost comedy gold over Fromsoft making Gehrman's tender and warm feelings for her before and after her death plain. What is not lost, however, is the fact that the two should just kick Laurence and go home :pensive:

[katyahina]

Maria's brooch is not green...?

(Screenshots from @thesoulzofhades post ( x ))

Honestly, reflections in her brooch are such a neat thing! But:

^ I always assumed that this accessory on the Doll is the same as what Maria is wearing, it has the exact same design, but with the color, I just don't know sometimes:

I could assume that the brooch as shown on Maria's boss form might then be not actually green but reflect the lighting, but we can see that on the Hunter's body (pictured in the Hunter's Dream) it is still green, and it is intentionally green on Maria's model without lighting!

^ I wonder if there might be sort of modeling mistake, then? It is the most logical thing to assume that this is the same pendant/brooch, as it shares the design and Doll already has Maria's ribbon in her hat and Maria's shoes! But the 'green' that covers Doll's brooch is a different filter, placed to reflect the lighting rather than BEING the color green. Similar situation I recall with clothes of Alberich that surprised me:

Notice how 'green' places react on the lighting instead when the set is worn? I think Doll's pendant was supposed to be the same! Maybe with only very slight green overlay, but not to the extent Maria's clothes have it.

Maybe people who modelled Maria were not the same who modelled the Doll, so it was a misinterpretation of the 'filter' as color green? Or maybe they figured it out but decided to keep the green brooch because it looked better? (they were right if true, but still :p)

Now that I think of it, it does make a bit more sense if her brooch is not green but instead is supposed to be glistening and reflect the surroundings. Green is nowhere else in her set, anyways! I think the most logical assumption that it was a misinterpretation within developing; either one they didn't realise, or realised but decided to keep! I guess I will have to draw her brooch waaaaay less green; more in the way Doll has it than 'gemstone'-looking one I am drawing now. ...or I will not, if I end up not feeling satisfied with the change. xD

I just don't really see the point in interpreting them as different accessories. A more compromise answer to the dilemma would be that Maria used to cover it in green-ish gloss to look more *STYLISH*, and Gehrman is just not doing this for Doll! (Moon Presence stole all the green polish for her nails day :(((((( OOF )

[fareehaandspaniards]

Gremia as a core concept (of all things)

So, I've been seeing mentions for a long time that the name Gremia can be found quite often in cut content. We have: Altar of Gremia

as well as Tomb of Gremia and Chapel of Gremia. As well as Gremia's Blood Hunter Set.

Let me just put a link on the website - Here

Also, the Madman's set was called the Gremia Set. As was Forgotten Madman, which has internal name Madman of Gremia.

So where do we stand with this? Gremia in the early concepts of the game was either a land or a Great One, or maybe both. But that it was the Great One is confirmed by the Tomb and Chapel locations. Gremia existed in the lore of the game before Oedon took its place.

Based on the fact that Gremia's altar is a female, I can also assume that the deity it was associated with was female?

Bonus justification for this is the roots of the name Gremia. As @fantomette22 pointed out, the name Gremia is most likely a variation of “Jeremiah”, which is a strong reference to King Jeremiah from DS3, which in turn is a reference to Old Monk from Demon's Souls, which in turn is a reference to LOVECRAFT. Uh-huh. “The King in Yellow.”

Jeremiah is a prophet, his name literally translates as “the Lord will exalt” or “the Exalted One” (And also “may the Lord exalt”, “the height of God”). But he is also a “weeping prophet” and also “Blessed Theodoret even calls him ‘the mother of Jerusalem’ for his truly maternal love,” suggesting that the Great One who bore the name Jeremiah (Gremiah) may well have been female.

Where is our wonderful, popular and universally loved NPC located? In the Chalice of Izs, on the call for Ebrietas! And you can also find Ebrietas in Yharnam by going up through the Chapel of Oedon (Gremia). There feels a kind of connection, as if one comes from the other. It really does feel like that!!!

Also what do we know about Ebrietas? She is a mourner. And when a player finds her, she is crying over something outwardly resembling Rom (but with a couple of differences). And the prophet Jeremiah comes to mind again, weeping and mourning. Perhaps the Great One Gremia looked the same way Rom looks, for Gremia is “exalted” like Rom.

There is a parallell between Gremia and Ebrietas, and since Gremia may be a female deity, we can assume that Gremia is the mother (/father??? both???) of Ebrietas!

It's worth noting that out of all the NPCs with default faces, Gremia is the one with that face that can be seen and considered unlike Annalise, Eileen. So I can safely say that this face is his. And it just so happens to be the one that is taken as the “default” face.

So we have a regular NPC, the Tomb Proscpector in the Chalice of Izs, who bears the name of the Great One, summons to Ebrietas, and serves as the basis for all other faces when creating a character. (aaand has uniiique baaatle style)

Bottom line: Gremia is Sky and mother of Ebrietas. Sky and Cosmos are one! And his face is supposed to be worn by the hunter of Yharnam. That is, the hunter is the reincarnation of the lost Great One, an echo of whom wanders in the Chalice of Izs (or once did). It turns out that Gremia is reborn time after time to end the Nightmares of Yharnam 😎

[fantomette22]

A few differences between the hunter's dream and the old abandoned workshop

i was taking some screenshots references of the hunter's dream and old workshop for headcanons purposes at first and ended up discovering an interesting little thing...

All the windows of the old workshop were immured !

Hunter's dream on the left & old abandoned workshop on the right

^I think the bricks are clearly visible here and in the entrance a lil wall brick have been recover by cement or smt and above V

Please take a look I am not joking and only noticed now when it should be oblivious. I thought there were perhaps planks or the windows broken but they seems alright! They are immured from the exterior.

Now why? Well. the windows seems intact so I doubt it was for that. And why not just put boards? WELL I got a few ideas.

if the doors were supposed to be closed no one could get in there or stole non existant stuff for sure.

someone deliberately immured them to not have see the light made by the moon

It's not clear since when it's abandoned but it's very isolated with all the bottom of the workshop being abandoned. As for the 2nd theory I think maybe someone got a little bit hm... paranoiac perhaps?

Scared of Moon Presence ?? Laurence ?!

Ok more seriously. We know the hunter's dream represent the workshop probably at its prime. But with all the papers around, dust & webs it's probably a mixt of different moments within the live of the workshop & Gehrman (Or the first hunter, Maria, & Laurence are big messes who let books & papers everywhere and never cleaned 😑 Like no wonder things went wrong!)

We see that the workshop seems to have become almost a study room at the end. (The many papers around probably cams from damaged books but this ones here V someone clearly put them here.

Comparaison with the dream :

SO WHEN were the windows immured then?

Well for the windows we can't be sure but I think it would make sense AFTER the creation of the hunter's dream and someone continued to work/research at the workshop but didn't wanted to see the ray of light of the moon. Scared of a lil moon? Ahaha Well if that person saw the Moon Presence or maybe tried to find a solution against it I would understand why closing all the windows...

So who research here after the workshop "close?" and WHEN. Well probably gehrman first but afterwards it would make sense it was Laurence trying to find a solution perhaps? (And I wouldn't be surprised if the beast possessed soul is actually the last guardian of the place too)

-------

In the end maybe it was just because the place was abandoned but then why bother hm? I wouldn't be surprised if there's really more to it.

Also I think it's safe to assume, and probably oblivious to a lot of persons but the workshop is an ancient small chapel (for Flora?? Oedon? 👀) I mean it's true that all the houses looks like some gothic churches too so 😑 but the workshop os really the most oblivious one for me.

[troythecatfish]

[katyspersonal]

And don't forget the lanterns that Church Servants have, which are simply normal lanterns, but get covered in eyes AND can attack you if you have 15+ Insight. Bloodborne does have sort of "some things only can hurt you if you can know about them"!

But I'd say Micolash is really a weird one. Okay, spirits summoned by Witches can't hurt you if you don't believe in them / know about them, same with arcane eyes shooting, but.. why would a thing Hunter knows/believes about mirrors would influence whether Micolash can move through them?? It is not an attack - it is Micolash's OWN teleportation. It has some slightly scary implications about Micolash and his Nightmare, to be honest!! Okay so:

From the note the Hunter finds at the start of the game (Seek Paleblood to complete the Hunt) and then in a Dream (one telling you that you should seek Paleblood or else the night will never end), we could conclude that the length and the """plot""" of the night of the hunt depends on the dreaming Hunter and their motivation. Our hunter DOES seek Paleblood, so this is the "plot" of this night. Eileen and Djura wanted something different so their nights ended when their motivations were met, etc. (It was also edited out from English localization (for some reason...) but the "Seek Paleblood to complete the hunt" was written in Hunter's own handwriting.)

But the source of Paleblood IS Nightmare of Mensis, since ritual is Mergo's cry. Basically? Micolash might be even LESS free than we thought. Not only this idiot died physically and got stuck in the Nightmare, but also his Nightmare lowkey obeys the will of Paleblood Hunter. And it could be because Nightmare of Mensis is the key point in out hunter's "dream"; Gehrman pretty much releases us (or tries to) AFTER Mergo is silenced (aka Paleblood found).

Micolash might not even be aware that he had lost autonomy to the point of his own knowledge depending on how HUNTER dreams about him, at least this particular hunter. The idiot DID make himself to be a figment in a dream (well, nightmare). He doesnt summon a dead spirit like Witches, but he HIMSELF is a dead spirit now (makes sense since he did die lol). Maybe even his own memories depend on our Insight. Like, had Hunter learned more about Micolash as a person and about his life - Micolash might already act more human even without any prior interaction, as reaction to the information being in the Hunter's head. Heck- For all we know, had Hunter learned how exactly Rom got blessing of Kos - Micolash would be able to get this too. (AU stage 2 idea for his battle? Thumbs up, thumbs down?)

funniest thing in bloodborne is still that if your insight is low enough micolash can't use his mirror teleportation trick. most other insight related stuff is still there if the hunter can't see it like the amygdala can still fucking GET you no matter how much the hunter doesn't believe they exist but the hunter CAN develop a "magic isn't real idiot" forcefield powerful enough to just disable micolash's funhouse mirrors

[katyspersonal]

Also while looking at the references, I've noticed something:

Why-

Why all these eyes inside of Ludwig's second mouth are very grey but there is only ONE unique blue one? Like, why it is like this. Who is she-

[katyahina]

hii do you happen to have pictures of Maria's model without her hat, and just close-ups? or a link to them (кстати спасибо за кропотливые анализы по бладику <3)

Yes, I do have some of them stored!

^ These models I saved some time ago after seeing them on Twitter, and I swear I for the love of all can't find the original Tweet. :s I should have saved the link to it and now it is lost! So, if anyone here has the link to the original person who datamined these images PLEASE let me know, searching things on Twitter is straight up impossible!! :pensive:

^ I do want to point out though that Maria, interestingly, has white eyebrows and shares this feature with the Doll! (image of Doll's face model from this ( x ) video by Sinclair Lore!) I am using it for how I draw Maria ever since I've learned about it, especially since Cainhurst nobles do have Pthumerian roots and it might be genes showing up!

^ One of the close-ups to showcase how her eyelashes are also blonde x) Taken from this ( x ) page from Bloodborne wiki (the cool one!). There are many good screenshots of her in this gallery, actually! Check this one out!

^ Super good close-ups from this ( x ) post by @grimmgrinningghouls !

^ Also important detail of Maria having 0 boobs I guess

I hope these were helpful! (И не за что! У меня на это не уходит ни терпения ни энергии. Напротив: если я перестану анализировать блятьборн на ДВЕЕЕЕ МИНУУУТЫ то я просто взорвусь хд)

[fantomette22]

Hey, what do you think is up with that giant tree in the cathedral ward? The one that you can see from the church workshop. It's on the opposite side of the map from the forbidden woods as well as the abandoned hunter's workshop so it can't be from them. If I remember correctly, it looks like it's inside the city itself, with an area built around it. Looking at a map places it in either Yahar'gul or Old Yharnam. Any ideas if it has any significance?

Hi Bobby! Thank you for giving me the occasion to talk about it! :D Luckily the other day i took a few screenshots of it! It's indeed the famous "great tree/grand arbre" that the Doll talked about after you defeat Mergo's Wet Nurse. Just next to the abandonned old hunter workshop.

Btw you can see lil hunter workshop is here in the mist too! :3

Well, sadly besides the Doll, nobody ever referred or acknowledge the tree. And we can't even go in the area where it is so I can only speculate and have headcanons out of it.

Well first the hunter's dream is an amalgame of 3 main few places (plus at differents time) :

Old hunter workshop (only place we can visit in real world)

Probably the great tree base

the "backward garden" where Gehrman sleep / where you can change messengers lil hats.

Only one of this places is possible to be visited in Yharnam but I think the others existed too.

Ok so idk what kind of tree it is but it's very old and tall. So my guess is that it was planted when Yharnam/Pthumeru was founded! Probably hundreds or thousands of years old! Probably become a great symbol. Maybe they practice rites here before the tombs of the gods or churches were built. Maybe link with the Moon Presence too. (remind me of the tree in my hometown planted in 1792, after the the French Revolution, it's a tilleul/linden and it's huge).

After all in chalice dungeons there's lot of roots on the ceilings too. I wouldn't be surprised is some are from this tree!

Now in modern time I hc that the hunters could have gather here or even trained here! Besides running around the workshop, it doesn't feel like a great training place to fight and practice. The area at the foot of the tree would be way better for sparring!

that's why I think Gehrman really like this place! it's important to him. And if his physical body is dead and buried somewhere I think it would be next to the great tree (so yeah the tombstone behind would him is his own...).

Maybe other hunter's are buried here. There is so many graves everywhere around and in Yharnam where there's places. I wouldn't be surprise if some are here. Maybe hunters who show signed of blood drunkness were killed there too... (yeah angsty and dark hc ;-;)

So yeah that's my thoughts on it. maybe everyone could go there, maybe only clerics or hunters who know. Not the most important place because it's not a building but I feel it is important on another plan. Deep inside people heart and soul.

[katyspersonal]

@heraldofcrow See!!!!! I told you, I could SWEAR there were normal, non-mutated crows still left in Yharnam!

(Eileen should keep them safe and find non-infected meat to feed them)

wait is that a normal bird up there

[yharnamesque]

Bloodborne Observation Notes

Back in 2018 I had a very stupid idea: what if I went through my favourite game, Bloodborne (2015) by Fromsoft, and noted down every single thing I could see? Well that’s what I started doing. Did the main game, took a several year break, came back and did the chalices. I mean it when I say this is my favourite game, it is so stupidly important to me, and I wouldn’t have done this if it wasn’t

So I present to you, broken down into territories, all of my notes looking into every single detail I could come across in every single area of the game. I made these to be shared, for everyone to see and to use how they want. The only thing I ask for in return is you share them about, and give credit plus a link back if they end up influencing your own work. This is my contribution, my gift, to the community, and I hope it serves you well

The links below will go straight to the folders themselves rather than all the individual documents, but they’ll still be listed out here for easy reference as to what is where

-

Progression + Foreword

Yharnam

Iosefka’s Clinic

Central Yharnam

Old Yharnam

The Hunter’s Dreams

The Hunter’s Dream

The Hunter’s Nightmare

The Cathedral Ward

The Tomb of Oedon / Oedon Chapel

The Cathedral Ward / The Grand Cathedral

The Upper Cathedral Ward

Healing Church Workshop

The Abandoned Workshop

The Altar of Despair

The Forbidden Woods

Forbidden Woods

Byrgenwerth

Cainhurst

Hemwick Forest

Hemwick Charnel Lane

Castle Cainhurst

The Unseen Village

Hypogean Gaol

Yahar’Gul

The Graveyard of the Darkbeast

The Nightmares of Yharnam

The Lecture Hall

The Nightmare Frontier

The Nightmare of Mensis / Mergo’s Loft

Pthumeru

Pthumeru

Central Pthumeru

Lower Pthumeru

Cursed and Defiled

Great Pthumeru Ihyll

Hintertomb

Hintertomb

Lower Hintertomb

Loran

Ailing Loran

Lower Loran

Isz

Great Isz

Cut Chalices

Great One Beast

Alternate Moon Presence

[katyspersonal]

Maria doesn't wear a Knight's Wig

Okay, earlier today someone asked me what I think about the theory that Maria's ponytail is actually just a (detachable) Knight's Wig.. I honestly don't believe it!

Knight's Wig is that it is, indeed, a wig and not only the ribbon itself! But the thing about it is that it is described (and shown) to resemble a flock of silver hair!

^ Here you can see that Maria's ponytail is the same color as the rest of her hair, described as "ash-colored" (灰, hai), not "silver" (銀, gin). (The ingame lighting does make her hair look blond, when on "clean" model her hair is definitely more grey, so that's why I double-checked that original script ( x ) uses different terms for their hair too, since grey/ash and silver are certainly similar!)

^ There is another instance of Cainhurst attire imitating the silver hair look with the Queen's guardians helmet, though this one is a little more vague because... well, this might be very thin slivers of actual silver for a decoration, rather than a similar thing to a Knight's Wig, since it is said to be made of silver as sort of protective charm:

I personally like the idea that this is both! To be honest, I've had a discussion with more details about it here ( x ), but that post in short: significance of imitating silver hair is placed in how it reflects the biggest mastery and devotion to the Queen of Blood! It is something exceptional rather than ordinary! Moreover, it probably has to do with being undead... The only canon Cainhurst characters with actual silver hair are the Forsaken Castle Spirits (commonly referred as Bound Widows), with the living prototype having "normal" hair:

It is hard to say if the silver hair is the result of dying and "living" again, or their hair turned silver when they lived! There is an unused Vileblood who does have silver hair and red-ish eyes, but he is... well, unused. Otherwise, silver hair are a thing of undead Pthumerians like Queen Yharnam and Pthumerian Descendant + Elder, both undead.. But all are blood magic users! So, Maria would not wear a symbol of the intention to become that, as someone who distastes the blood antics of her clan, as much as she still honors the design of her home otherwise!

^ Stage transition of her battle like this is also a cut content, but funny enough, they seemed to have this intention too :') With the hair becoming silver as a testimony of fully giving into blood!

^ This is also a potential other note towards why her ribbon is just the ribbon!

All in all, I think the idea about detachable ponytail-shaped decoration is funny, but there seems to be a significance connected with silver hair that just would not translate into making a similar decoration but with custom hair color instead! And we also can't tell what Bloody Crow's hair color is underneath that helmet, he could have accomplished the silver hair state

[katyahina]

Did Brador kill Laurence or someone else?

Okay so I realised that I never had a coherent reference, so here

It is kind of visible in the game, but it is true that Old Brador does have unique head piece variant that is not accessble for the players by normal means without datamining (similarly to Arianna's pregnant state dress, Eileen's set variant torn by beast claws, Fauxsefka's barefoot leg piece etc)! And the difference here, is one horn being broken!

Brador secluded himself in the cell and according to him we are the first person he meets physically past that time! It is not certain how exactly he died, only that it likely happened when he was old (and killed the Cleric Beast in his middle-age (?) state). If his words are any indication, it isn't likely that the horn got damaged in the battle or something like that! But at the same time, we meet Bradord in the Nightmare Realm, so he might in reality refer to just his stay here.

However, an interesting bit is that suggests that one horn might have gotten ruined with the time; in Chalice Dungeons, beast-like Messengers show horns developing asymmetrically!

Coincidentally, they depict the same horn that Brador has broken as smaller one!

Brador's beast hyde is specifically that of a Cleric Beast, which Laurence was the first precedent of, so what we know for certain is that Brador could not have had his hyde while Laurence was still alive! The Cleric Beast that he had to kill had to be either Laurence himself, or some Cleric Beast that came after Laurence's deasth!

Laurence's beastly skull does have a hole in itself, and no traces of antlers, so this is actually a reasonable assumption that the scalp might be his! The model of headless Bloodletting Beast is drastically different, so I think it is safe to assume that they either never planned that implication or retconned it when DLC was finished! It lacks the asymmetrically larger left arm and has a tail, for one + from the version that does still have a head we can see this type of beasts lacks the antlers (the trademark of Cleric Beasts), let alone very different type of skull

(Models from this ( x ) video by Sinclair Lore) Ok ok sorry for making ya'll look at Laurence's ass I just need to show that in model he has no tail, and with the fur variant he has only the tiniest tuft of fur

On the other hand, only so many things could be blamed on them basically reusing Cleric Beast model for Laurence just with fire textures, as they're not entirely identical like I thought before! In fact, there is a potential evidence against linking him to Brador's hyde as the horns are different:

Not only Laurence has one horn broken when the hyde Brador is wearing had both horns whole at the moment of the murder, but also it is the different horn; left one rather than the right one!

Brador is wearing clothing that is almost identical to male Black Church set, who are the lower-ranking members of the Healing Church, whereas his headpiece says that the person he killed was his friend. Now, it is fair to assume that maybe someone from lower ranks was, in fact, not 'friends' with Laurence, who was THE head of the Healing Church!

According to Alfred's dialogue we can further confirm that Healing Church leaders are so secretive that they do not give the full lore even to their own lower-ranking personnel, and Brador was only given his bell after the murder of that Cleric Beast!

At the same time, Brador uses the Frenzy-Inducing Bloodletter, not unlike Black Church Servants with their crucifixes that cause Frenzy. Meanwhile, White Church Servants rely on the weapons that, on the contrary, are sensitive to high Insight: when you have 15 Insight or more, their lanters become covered with eyes and their scythes emit blue Arcane glow! Insight-sensitive weapons align with.. well, the bell that only someone aware of the Fishing Hamlet secret could hear.

So far, the evidence points more towards Brador having been a more or less lower-ranking member of the Healing Church, that one time killed his (higher-ranking?) cleric friend, not Laurence, but by effect learned too much about the Healing Church's secrets that were NOT meant for him, and obligated to keep them safe. It would align with his philosophy of some things "better left unknown", as if he regrets having learned all this, as well as with Laurence's horns not being true to his beast hyde scalp.

.....and yet, at the same time, I would not put it past Laurence to be friends with someone from lower rank, or maybe Brador's lower rank was merely a cover? Even his horns situation could be blamed on some life still yet residing in his scalp, and thus, the antlers attached to it still grow and crumble on their own. In other words, I do not have a strong point towards this or that version. Question isn't answered, but maybe some observations are helpful to choose one on your own!

[katyspersonal]

Thank you very much for this reference, it is SUPER useful! I'd never have guessed this petrified corpse is colored green, but now it makes sense as it bears the similarity to Tonsil Stone!

As for the spider itself, I am sure it IS implied to be Rom! It would be her petrified "real" body! 'Spiders' in Bloodborne setting appear to transcend the line between Nightmare realm and 'reality' and be sort of immortal, like how Patches moves between Yharnam and Nightmare and doesn't actually disappear if killed (just keeps his distance from now on). It could explain how Rom is in the Lake, but also dungeons, but also "dead"! This is absolutely a corpse not only because it is Altar of Grief, but also since there are Tomb Molds growing!

As for legs thing: Rom has round holes on her body by the sides where legs are supposed to be, when her working legs are small! It could be linked to her growth, where she had to drop her former legs to grow new ones, able to support her growing mass better!

Finally, lyrics of Ebrietas seem to refer to Mensis Ritual!

(If anyone here has better/1000% official lyrics script though and can confirm OR deny this claim, please let me know!)

Rom's "death" that Ebrietas is grieving might be more in metaphorical sense, as in no longer being herself ever again. Or maybe the lamentation happens because of not death but absence, if Rom is trapped in her duty to protect the humanity from horrors and can no longer be with her. Or, since lyrics address Mensis Ritual, maybe Ebrietas laments what has to be done and Lake battle IS her true death more or less? (if you believe that Chalice Dungeons have time warps and things like that, which they might)

i cant remember if i ever posted these but im ranting about rom rn in "the bloodborne thing"you hunted". here's that stupid rom statue/corpse (?) that makes up the "altar of despair". dont ask me about this thing. i dont know, okay. i dont know. all i know is that unlike rom, it has full sized legs.

[fantomette22]

Funny observations today

Besides the wet nurse kicking my ass 3 times and Gehrman once

Ludwig lives! Even if Simon is already at the research hall. Maybe it’s a bug 🤔

Also I found very weird that the lake shield & the prison cells are found on patients dead bodies too 🤔 wouldn’t it make more sense to be found on dead church doctors 🤨

Left : entrance of the lumen flowers garden in research hall

Right : armor or the big axe executioners (i forgot to share it)

I wonder if there’s any significance 🤔 (Kos is that you? Clueless)

The doctors crow masks vs Eileen crow mask

(I might do a post about it later i think the difference interesting. It’s probably just random different mask but i liked it could represent different real life corvid species too)

OH and i just discover that mister Yamamura is actually talking to us! The hunter! And not just talking crazy to himself. Idk if it’s the same in english but in french, with the female character he used the term chasseuse/huntress so yeah bro is really talking to us i’m dumb i wasn’t sure 🙄

[doritojesus]

Beware of madman