#bioware negative

[leliwardens]

kind of want to throw together a collection of my thoughts from the new veilguard news and while i do have exceptionally positive thoughts over some things most is...not. and that was kind of what i expected from what i had seen previously, and the limited choices thing.

(spoilers + negativity under the cut)

like the return of a certain character, horrific and racist design aside, is for...who exactly? with no choices to influence them, then it's not really for long term fans outside the ones that just like random cameos i suppose? and it's presumably a fun npc for new fans but that could of been fulfilled with a new npc with no ties to previous games.

from what i've seen i do think that really sums it up for my biggest issue. it's even worse than inquisition with trying to cater to everyone, but this time around there's less for the longterm fans (unless you played a certain route, it seems).

and this in mind with veilguard being described as a "send off"? for...who exactly i ask again? i know that's far more opinion based with reviews and will vary from person to person, but like...given you have no influence over any returning characters or major previous events, then it's not sending off anything for long term fans. the most i can assume/hope for is a bookend with killing the last of the old gods and finding a cure, but without any mention of the hero of ferelden it rings hollow. and i truly can believe this is a send off to, i guess, any final remnants of everything that came before a big time skip which i always suspected would happen just not coming from a game that already cut off previous material.

and this is purely my opinion but one of the small fears i had was this was just a springboard for the next mass effect game it......unfortunately seems like the case. both franchises are cash cows but the space military shooter is the bigger one i guess lmao. i like me fine, casual fan, but it never stuck with me the way da did, and i never liked how regressive it felt compared TO da or restrictive when it comes to roleplay. but again opinions. i just want both franchises to be their own thing, but it's being blended together probably because the dev cycles are hot fucking garbage for bigger and bigger games and having to merge elements to make it a big more bearable and more general audience appeal. so i won't be surprised if veilguard was a testing ground for me5 and it shows.

idk, there's other things like i'm not sure what to make of the apparent lack of conflict between characters of lack of meaningful choices, both are very objective based and from what i under don't come from unbias places. regardless i wouldn't be surprised if it were the case given how toothless inquisition was made, so this seems like it's on the right track. and the lack of moral grey? apparently? still feeling like it's an unfortunate natural progression also from inquisition, with the broadening of the audience appeal because you gotta make more and more money but i'd also not be surprised of fan backlash (some fair and some not) lead to more basic palatable choices.

we'll see how it goes when i play but i think my opinion won't change much given there isn't anything you can do about the limited choices, which is really what killed it for me.

[alisadraws]

I must share this so my moots can find it and laugh with me Also this, a very nice comparison with actual good writing and acting in baldur's gate 3

[shardain]

im gonna complain about da4 fandom again for a hot sec

so like, back when folks were defending the surprise layoffs, there was an argument i saw from 2 or 3 big DA4 accounts on here that mary kirby deserved to get fired for writing all the racism into the dragon age universe (??????? HUH??? WHA???). anyways it's VERY FUNNY (weird) to see the exact same bloggers gushing about mary kirby's work on DA4, because they found out she wrote their new fav blorbo lucanis. like a month ago yall were saying she was a horrible terrible person and deserved to get fired and were accusing her of being violently racist??? now you're clinging to her every post about her writing for the game??

WHAT

[michaeljoncarter]

can somebody please sound the alarm and get that little bitch from kotaku back on the bioware beat because i desperately need to know how the hell something like veilguard even happens

[alisadraws]

The cursed Mythal bathwater choice doesn't exist because it contradicts THE DEVS story.

At the end of this crap, if your inquisitor romanced Solas she cries for him to stop, he doesn't listen, Morrigan swoops in to fart Mythal's ghosts, Solas listens to her and he fucks off into the horizon to live happily ever after with the inquisitor hand in hand.

That's it, that is the solavellan ending they were able to imagine, that's why we can't import any choices: it would contradict the lame ass 5th grader fanfiction these people wanted to tell.

Screaming into the void about Veilguard. Spoilers!

I have this written somewhere else, but I might as well put it here.

It feels so shallow. None of the places we visit feel like they're even on the same planet as how they're described in the original 3 games, and there's no current politics or set world-state as you can't transfer over choices/saves from past games.

I was surprised when we didn't see an intense scene about slavery or the horrors that regularly occur in Tevinter when Dorian paints such a detailed picture of his home in DAI.

Elves have been turned into humans basically, Dalish no longer exist or feel like they have culture. No longer are they suspicious of outsiders. Hey, join the veil-jumpers and get your grubby shem fingers all over ancient artifacts! Essentially Jesus Christ has come back to earth and none of them seem that bothered about it. It should be chaos among the Dalish as they're so hardcore in their beliefs, established by lavellan and Solas' encounters with them in DAI.

The factions just feel like filler that all have the same feel and milquetoast goody-two shoes goal.

Everyone's accents are all over the place. I heard maybe 1 guy sound Tevene in Tevinter, everyone else was American/Dwarven-esque or Fereldan. It's like Andromeda all over again. They just don't care about the details.

No true arguments or bashing of heads, no characters have a strong opinion one way of politics/beliefs that could be seen as morally wrong. No one feels real.

Not even to mention (SPOILERS!)

Solas for some reason 'abhors' blood magic, when in DAI he was willing to teach you if he knew it.

They butchered Solas' character. They're acting as though he's always been cold and evil, out for revenge, and even in his memories during his rebellious days he sacrificed tons of spirits to get what he wanted, which couldn't be further from his character. They also forgot about the implied elven uprising that was growing at the end of Trespasser. Not once does the game mention an agent, or does he have any followers.

There's an ending that says every big choice in past games (Loghain's betrayal, corypheus going into the golden city) was orchestrated by a secret no-name organization that is basically the illuminati, destroying all agency of past characters.

I haven't finished the game, but I hear the titans are never truly touched on other than Lace's powers.

The crows who torture and kill innocents are seen as this group that helps keep the streets safe...?

Why was solas so against the grey wardens killing archdemons if nothing bad happens when you kill them and they're just creatures assigned to each of the elven pantheon? In DAI he acted as though killing Archdemons was a dangerous thing and would worsen the world.

What ever happened to the soul of the old god that Mythal took from Morrigan's child, then Solas took from Mythal? Is that ever touched on?

What about the well of sorrows!?

I should've steeled myself against this game being bad. I knew it was coming. But man, I love the other three dragon age games so it's still horrible to see it happen. I think solas' character assassination was one of the worst things this game did as he's one of the most interestingly written villains IMO (In inquisition).

[unveiling-unguarding]

"People hated DA2 and Inquisition when they launched but love them now. The same thing will happen to DA:TV"

Like hell it will. Veilguard gives empty answers to empty questions with empty characters. There is nothing deeper to sustain it.

[wizardsix]

I can't be the only one who thinks it's so lame that spite ultimately had 0 effect on lucanis whereas the writers made anders suffer for just wanting to live.

[whereismywarden]

"We wanted to make the game accessible to new players."

It's not though. Not entirely. The plot is a direct follow-up to Trespasser. And romantic or not, the relationship between Solas and the Inquisitor will apparently play a pivotal role. By definition, you're already including content that could make new players feel like they're missing parts of the story (which they are).

Also, you could easily have a default worldstate with next to no references to the older games while still giving returning players the opportunity to input a few additional choices that could crop up if relevant in codex entries or background dialogue. I forgot which game it was, but I remember playing a game once that asked you at the start whether or not you wanted to see past events be referenced during the story. It really could have been that simple.

But by choosing to remove past choices from the game entirely, not only are you not really making the game more accessible to new players, but you might end up alienating half your existing player base.

[zundely]

Sorry for a little petty and not a very positive post but it gets on my nerves a little when I see people being like "My RPG choice/romance is in the Bioware CANON WORLDSTATE we won!" like I dunno what to tell you man, congrats your singleplayer game choices were approved by the corporate or whatever but it's a little weird you want to use it to make your, again, singleplayer RPG game choices feel more valid then other ones.

And while in plot choices it's bad because it feels unecessary discourse about which choices are the 'correct ones', it really rubs me the wrong way when it is about romance options. Because first- there obviously shouldn't be a right and wrong romance choice. There shouldn't be secret winning romance. And second- if it is a thing that there is a romance option that gets loads of attention from creators because they chose it as more canon then others... yall realise why this is actually a bad thing right? Especially when usually it's a straight locked romance? And how it's especially bad when there is no alternative with comparable plot relevance? Like I dunno if that's winning guys when all but one choice in the game with multiplechoices don't get any followup in the narrative.

[brekkie-e]

Ok. I am all for giving Veilgaurd the space to be it's own game and appreciate it for what it is, but every time I see a person who openly talks about only getting in to dragon age this year or some other nonsense go off about how long term fans hate the game cause they cant handle change I see red.

I mean, to be a Dragon Age fan, you have to be able to accept change. Change is at the core of the experience. Whether that's a good thing or bad thing is a different question. But if you're a long-term fan of the series, you've succeeded in the task of accepting change.

The criticisms of Veilgaurd are, in my opinion, a little unique to the franchise. For all Inquisition tweaked certain lore and it irritated a lot of people- it did so with self-awareness and intention. I am thinking about how it did the Dalish dirty in many respects. For all I do not agree with that writing direction, the game itself atleast acknowledges it is 1. New information. 2. Dependent on the clan. 3. Gives you the room to roleplay your character according to previously established lore. This is just one example, of course.

Veilgaurd is unique in the fact it ignores much of the series pre-established lore and in no way owns up to it.

I have seen a lot of hateful comments about how Origins hasn't been the framework of the series since 2009. And yeah, sure to a degree that is true. The gameplay certainly got tossed out. But in many ways, Dragon Age 2 is a direct continuation of that world and setting. DA2 and Origins and the lore they established are solid and share a vision. Play as a Mahariel and engage with Merril's clan. It's the same world. The same npc's. Inquisition does not deviate that far from that vision when you look past the companions all playing devil's advocate.

I really don't think everyone disappointed with this game or finding it lacking are "blinded by nostalgia." Most Dragon Age fans will be the first ones to tell you the franchise is a mess. But acting like the games that established it as beloved to it's fans are no longer relevant is so nasty to me. You as a newer fan would not be able to play Veilgaurd if the older fans had not made the previous titles financial successes. If they had not kept the love for the series alive, this new game would never have made it out of development.

The game is good. It's enjoyable to play. It's not without its charms. It should be given room to shine for what it is. It's a miracle we have it given the development journey it went on.

But it's also a massive smack in the face to many people who loved all three previous titles. And that's a bad thing. And I hope future titles remember the lore and tone of the series better.

These two things can both be true.

[agirlking]

The Veilguard subreddit has not heard of critical thinking or expecting quality out of something you pay for. It is insane over there. "It's not bad at all! GoTY!" Holy shit.

Btw this post isn’t for anti Solavellan people. Stop blaming us for liking a ship and acting like that made DA4 what it is. BioWare has been on a downward spiral for a long time, the game was in development hell, and many people were fired. The fans mindlessly giving them money right now (who are NOT only Solavellans) are contributing to future issues by giving them a pass, but even they didn’t create these problems.

[leliwardens]

(Article I want to bitch about on my own blog and not put it in the tags.)

I suspected that the devs were super chronically online for various reasons and choices but this basically confirms it. Like oh my fucking god I'm being so genuine and real but they really, REALLY need to log off. You cannot approach any piece of media trying to appease all of the fans, it will never, ever work. Fandom is not a monolith, fans are not a monolith, people will bad faith read your story for fun, or good faith read it, and still come away with an entirely different take than you intention. "Death of an author" is a real and true concept.

"Wipe out a Dalish clan in all three games" is a CHOICE. In Origins it is considered the evil option of the three endings for the quest, you have to encourage the werewolves to want to kill them. In DA2 you're defending the person that the clan has been told is a pariah among the clan AND is now blamed for getting their keeper killed. In Inquisition it is a rather convoluted war table mission, but there are ways to resolve it with no death. But these are choices! The game doesn't give you a gun and leave you no room to avoid it. Taking the choice out isn't a win! It's bad game design for a roleplaying game!

"None of the Dalish would take the side of the evil gods" is not the "win" you think it is (also I guess city elves get shafted again but that's expected) because it flattens any sort of nuance, motivations, messy interactions, or just flaws? In general flaws? Going from one extreme to another in terms of "good" and "bad" is not the "win" you think it is!!! All you've done is removed character agency!!!!

I can't suspend my disbelief enough to accept the entire build up of Inquisition to Trespasser with elves leaving their homes to join Solas only for the reason they're not running around being "oh he'll end the world". Like, how could their lives get worse in that case? Sure, the extremely powerful being claiming to be right out of the mythos said his plan will cause thousands of deaths and the world as you might know it but I'll just head back to my home in the alienage where humans can do whatever they want to me like burn down my home or kill my family with no repercussions. Or I guess since the city elves are practically nonexistent, that was never considered lmfao. Or hell just, elves wanting a grab at power? For selfish reasons? Or well-intentioned reasons? You know, nuance??? Like, fuck dude.

[lords-of-fortune]

Me, months ago: oooo I hope we see isabela as one of the lords of fortune contacts in veilguard!

The sinister monkey's paw: [curls another finger so that it is flipping me off]

[shardain]

you know what, i'm still mad that everyone forgot about the shitty things bioware did in favor of glazing veilguard.

like man yall were so righteously angry about the senior writers getting fired via a tweet for 5 minutes and forgave them and started excusing the firings the moment info about the game started coming out. 'well, most of the writing was done, so it won't effect the game's quality' was an argument i saw an alarming amount of people use to justify and forgive the layoffs. idk. there's no excuse to me to fire all your senior writers via a twitter post they had to see in their own time, and i can't for the life of me understand how that is the unpopular thought on the situation.

like, what the hell man.

[galedekarios]

i don't know how to put this into words yet so it makes complete sense so bear with me while i gather my thoughts, but...

i think a lot of the criticism i have re: decisions bioware made with veilguard are (at least in part) the company's direct responses to the (in my eyes) often unfounded and disproportionate hate that inquisition received from the fanbase.

[lafaiette]

Also, can we talk about magic? i suppose they wanted to make the game more luring to new players, but magic used to be rare, closed under the lock and feared. Mages were feared and cosidered dangerous. Tevinter was an execption, not a general rule. How come people forgot only ten years ealier there was a regular war between mages and chantry, the very reason Inquisition was formed? Why is there magic, anciet elven magic behin every corner? It feels like reboot.

"It feels like reboot"

Because it is a reboot 💀 Or at least, it's the first step towards one.

Explaining how magic is seen in Thedas, all the different opinions and fears and hopes people have about it, would have been impossible in a single game clearly aimed at luring new players in. They put all the major pieces of explanation in the codex (one part of it is filled and complete since from the start of the game, because it's basically a catalogue detailing everything about Thedas), and let you play as a mage to your heart's content, with no strings, no responsibilities attached.

They tried to preserve some logic in Minrathous - there's mention of how Tevinter's families try to breed the perfect mages to rise in power and influence, so that's good. But you also see a "Noble" mingling with a "Civilian" among the fishermen, and telling her she shouldn't waste time and money on making things better for the poor people. What the hell is she doing there, then? Why isn't she in Minrathous proper, drinking wine and looking down on the poor districts?

Just around every corner, a few feet away from the closest tavern, Venatori are constantly putting up blood magic barriers. The same in the Necropolis, with the Venatori making camp just one door behind the main hub where the Mourn Watch is stationed. Everyone performs rituals, the Circles are barely mentioned, a Forbidden One is hiding behind a door in the Necropolis' main hall and no one ever noticed it before, not even Emmrich.

Statues of Fen'Harel and the Evanuris, elven relics and elven contraptions are hidden everywhere - everywhere. To show how vast and influential the elven empire was? That was probably the devs' intent. Does it always make sense? No. Is it for gameplay purposes, to fill the map with puzzles and stuff to find like in the 2000s? Obviously.

In Inquisition, there was an entire area of the Hinterlands ravaged by the Templars and rebel mages. The refugees were scared of walking the roads to find food because there was wild magic flying around. Rabid templars crazy on lyrium roamed the woods, and the Chantry was powerless.

Elven ruins were scattered around with sense, with a purpose, barely visible among the vegetation, forgotten and avoided, or almost forced to fuse with Chantry's buildings (just look at the Emerald Graves). There was a logic behind the NPCs' and props' locations in the world.

Here, there is simply no logic or consequence to anything ever. The Black Divine is never addressed, as far as I remember. Dalish clans have lost any distinction - the only elven faction you meet is that of the Veil Jumpers, which is a weird cocktail of elves who all know how bad the Evanuris are and random humans and Qunari. Yes, there are humans being allowed to guard ancient elven artifacts in a Dragon Age game. No, they are not called shem. Yes, they all get along swimmingly.

The Crows are not slavers and dangerous figures anymore - they're actually the heroes of Treviso! They treat their fledgling Crows with care and respect, no torture involved. Where did you hear such a preposterous idea? Zevran? Who's Zevran?

Taash says the Qun isn't a prison. How is that possible? They sent assassins after Bull when he defected. They hunt Vashoth and Tal-Vashoth if they dare leave, and if a sten loses his sword, he cannot return home, because his brethren would kill him, as "to a Qunari warrior, the sword is the soul."

So yeah, this was definitely supposed to be a reboot for Dragon Age, just like Andromeda was supposed to be one for Mass Effect. That's why everything falls flat.