#bioware negative

[kikicolors]

Screaming into the void about Veilguard. Spoilers!

I have this written somewhere else, but I might as well put it here.

It feels so shallow. None of the places we visit feel like they're even on the same planet as how they're described in the original 3 games, and there's no current politics or set world-state as you can't transfer over choices/saves from past games.

I was surprised when we didn't see an intense scene about slavery or the horrors that regularly occur in Tevinter when Dorian paints such a detailed picture of his home in DAI.

Elves have been turned into humans basically, Dalish no longer exist or feel like they have culture. No longer are they suspicious of outsiders. Hey, join the veil-jumpers and get your grubby shem fingers all over ancient artifacts! Essentially Jesus Christ has come back to earth and none of them seem that bothered about it. It should be chaos among the Dalish as they're so hardcore in their beliefs, established by lavellan and Solas' encounters with them in DAI.

The factions just feel like filler that all have the same feel and milquetoast goody-two shoes goal.

Everyone's accents are all over the place. I heard maybe 1 guy sound Tevene in Tevinter, everyone else was American/Dwarven-esque or Fereldan. It's like Andromeda all over again. They just don't care about the details.

No true arguments or bashing of heads, no characters have a strong opinion one way of politics/beliefs that could be seen as morally wrong. No one feels real.

Not even to mention (SPOILERS!)

Solas for some reason 'abhors' blood magic, when in DAI he was willing to teach you if he knew it.

They butchered Solas' character. They're acting as though he's always been cold and evil, out for revenge, and even in his memories during his rebellious days he sacrificed tons of spirits to get what he wanted, which couldn't be further from his character. They also forgot about the implied elven uprising that was growing at the end of Trespasser. Not once does the game mention an agent, or does he have any followers.

There's an ending that says every big choice in past games (Loghain's betrayal, corypheus going into the golden city) was orchestrated by a secret no-name organization that is basically the illuminati, destroying all agency of past characters.

I haven't finished the game, but I hear the titans are never truly touched on other than Lace's powers.

The crows who torture and kill innocents are seen as this group that helps keep the streets safe...?

Why was solas so against the grey wardens killing archdemons if nothing bad happens when you kill them and they're just creatures assigned to each of the elven pantheon? In DAI he acted as though killing Archdemons was a dangerous thing and would worsen the world.

What ever happened to the soul of the old god that Mythal took from Morrigan's child, then Solas took from Mythal? Is that ever touched on?

What about the well of sorrows!?

I should've steeled myself against this game being bad. I knew it was coming. But man, I love the other three dragon age games so it's still horrible to see it happen. I think solas' character assassination was one of the worst things this game did as he's one of the most interestingly written villains IMO (In inquisition).

[leliwardens]

kind of want to throw together a collection of my thoughts from the new veilguard news and while i do have exceptionally positive thoughts over some things most is...not. and that was kind of what i expected from what i had seen previously, and the limited choices thing.

(spoilers + negativity under the cut)

like the return of a certain character, horrific and racist design aside, is for...who exactly? with no choices to influence them, then it's not really for long term fans outside the ones that just like random cameos i suppose? and it's presumably a fun npc for new fans but that could of been fulfilled with a new npc with no ties to previous games.

from what i've seen i do think that really sums it up for my biggest issue. it's even worse than inquisition with trying to cater to everyone, but this time around there's less for the longterm fans (unless you played a certain route, it seems).

and this in mind with veilguard being described as a "send off"? for...who exactly i ask again? i know that's far more opinion based with reviews and will vary from person to person, but like...given you have no influence over any returning characters or major previous events, then it's not sending off anything for long term fans. the most i can assume/hope for is a bookend with killing the last of the old gods and finding a cure, but without any mention of the hero of ferelden it rings hollow. and i truly can believe this is a send off to, i guess, any final remnants of everything that came before a big time skip which i always suspected would happen just not coming from a game that already cut off previous material.

and this is purely my opinion but one of the small fears i had was this was just a springboard for the next mass effect game it......unfortunately seems like the case. both franchises are cash cows but the space military shooter is the bigger one i guess lmao. i like me fine, casual fan, but it never stuck with me the way da did, and i never liked how regressive it felt compared TO da or restrictive when it comes to roleplay. but again opinions. i just want both franchises to be their own thing, but it's being blended together probably because the dev cycles are hot fucking garbage for bigger and bigger games and having to merge elements to make it a big more bearable and more general audience appeal. so i won't be surprised if veilguard was a testing ground for me5 and it shows.

idk, there's other things like i'm not sure what to make of the apparent lack of conflict between characters of lack of meaningful choices, both are very objective based and from what i under don't come from unbias places. regardless i wouldn't be surprised if it were the case given how toothless inquisition was made, so this seems like it's on the right track. and the lack of moral grey? apparently? still feeling like it's an unfortunate natural progression also from inquisition, with the broadening of the audience appeal because you gotta make more and more money but i'd also not be surprised of fan backlash (some fair and some not) lead to more basic palatable choices.

we'll see how it goes when i play but i think my opinion won't change much given there isn't anything you can do about the limited choices, which is really what killed it for me.

[shardain]

im gonna complain about da4 fandom again for a hot sec

so like, back when folks were defending the surprise layoffs, there was an argument i saw from 2 or 3 big DA4 accounts on here that mary kirby deserved to get fired for writing all the racism into the dragon age universe (??????? HUH??? WHA???). anyways it's VERY FUNNY (weird) to see the exact same bloggers gushing about mary kirby's work on DA4, because they found out she wrote their new fav blorbo lucanis. like a month ago yall were saying she was a horrible terrible person and deserved to get fired and were accusing her of being violently racist??? now you're clinging to her every post about her writing for the game??

WHAT

[whereismywarden]

"We wanted to make the game accessible to new players."

It's not though. Not entirely. The plot is a direct follow-up to Trespasser. And romantic or not, the relationship between Solas and the Inquisitor will apparently play a pivotal role. By definition, you're already including content that could make new players feel like they're missing parts of the story (which they are).

Also, you could easily have a default worldstate with next to no references to the older games while still giving returning players the opportunity to input a few additional choices that could crop up if relevant in codex entries or background dialogue. I forgot which game it was, but I remember playing a game once that asked you at the start whether or not you wanted to see past events be referenced during the story. It really could have been that simple.

But by choosing to remove past choices from the game entirely, not only are you not really making the game more accessible to new players, but you might end up alienating half your existing player base.

[zundely]

Sorry for a little petty and not a very positive post but it gets on my nerves a little when I see people being like "My RPG choice/romance is in the Bioware CANON WORLDSTATE we won!" like I dunno what to tell you man, congrats your singleplayer game choices were approved by the corporate or whatever but it's a little weird you want to use it to make your, again, singleplayer RPG game choices feel more valid then other ones.

And while in plot choices it's bad because it feels unecessary discourse about which choices are the 'correct ones', it really rubs me the wrong way when it is about romance options. Because first- there obviously shouldn't be a right and wrong romance choice. There shouldn't be secret winning romance. And second- if it is a thing that there is a romance option that gets loads of attention from creators because they chose it as more canon then others... yall realise why this is actually a bad thing right? Especially when usually it's a straight locked romance? And how it's especially bad when there is no alternative with comparable plot relevance? Like I dunno if that's winning guys when all but one choice in the game with multiplechoices don't get any followup in the narrative.

[lords-of-fortune]

Me, months ago: oooo I hope we see isabela as one of the lords of fortune contacts in veilguard!

The sinister monkey's paw: [curls another finger so that it is flipping me off]

[zazikels]

the fact is, if varric lives (and that's an if bc maybe solas does kill him lmao idk how much to trust that minimap reveal) it IS weird that you can't customise a hawke or account for the decision because it would be a little weird if a man who has lived through a wannabe god + blight dragon attacking warden fortress has nothing to say about ghilan'nain and her blight dragon attacking a warden fortress, especially if he potentially lost his best friend (Hawke). It's not outlandish for people to be a little disappointed to not get some customisation there because the choices are not equal to varric. the loss of hawke is obviously a bigger impact on him than whichever warden is there. given varric's personality, it's not outlandish to expect him to talk about it with Rook either especially considering weisshaupt is a thing that happens in the game. if he dies beforehand it doesn't matter, but if he's going to be around? yeah you'd think he'd be talking about it here.

speaking of weisshaupt, A PLACE YOU GET TO GO, a hero of ferelden who made the ultimate sacrifice IS FUCKING INTERRED THERE. But it's just "whining" to expect a nod (esp one that you can customise so it's your hero of ferelden) i guess.

regardless of whether morrigan has mythal or not, who she is as a person does change based on whether she was romanced and whether she had a child. it is natural that this matters and people aren't stupid to be tentatively concerned that nothing of her history is "required" but she's apparently this important vip character who will have more involvement in the game than you expect. like you are allowed to ask: okay what does this mean, what will she be like, will she be the same character i've loved across multiple games?

people are allowed to be upset or concerned that a game series that historically took your choices and your decisions into account has watered that down to 3 choices when certain choices that WOULD impact characters that appear in THIS game aren't. (and to be clear being upset does not mean harassing the devs, don't do that).

[ellie-shy]

I'm so so so so angry that I can't block YT accounts. I just want to check out new updates on DAtV without seeing unnecessary negativity in the comments or in the thumbnail. It's stupid. How can you have an opinion already when the game is not even out yet?

How can some people be so negative? How can you say something without even playing the previous 3 games???

I love Dragon Age with all my heart, even with the imperfections. It saddens me to see such stupidity and negativity from humans who perhaps have mommy or daddy issues.

This is also the same treatment BG3 received before they won GOTY.

Let me just fangirl in YT in peace 😭

[danielnelsen]

i think what’s frustrating is that you’re kinda required to have a strong opinion about solas to potentially get the most out of your choices for dav. having one of only three worldstate options be how you want to handle him is so strange for something that, to me, just felt like a pretty random inconsequential dialogue choice during trespasser. it felt like an immediate reaction to the situation, not an action plan

because honestly my inquisitor wouldn’t really care. he’s done saving the world and has just had a pretty major traumatic post-saving-the-world adventure while dealing with what is basically a very painful terminal illness… he wants nothing to do with any of it anymore! solas can be someone else’s problem! he would NOT spend the next decade trying to figure out what solas is up to, he would get as far away from all that bullshit as possible and try to live a peaceful life now that he’s suddenly no longer dying.

like idk i’ll probably choose that he wants to stop solas. but it doesn’t feel like so significant a choice to make it one of the only lasting impacts of the previous games. he already hasn’t seen solas in a few years by trespasser and wasn’t that close with him before and would like to take a nap

[baleclava]

My issue with BioWare games is that they set up a lot of things for “the next game” without knowing if there’s actually going to be a next game so there’s always some loose threads and plot points that were actually interesting are never mentioned again and don’t get a proper conclusion..

That also makes some big decisions not matter since the consequences are not actually in the game like in andromeda, so I’ve been hearing veilguard sets up stuff for a possible future game and I wonder if it will be much of the same..

[ecofear]

this is fucking gross lol

[meggannn]

if you are a famous pizza joint and over the years you cook me several pizzas I fall in love with, and then over time your suddenly rebrand to only make hamburgers, I like hamburgers on occasion, but it’s weird if you still call it a pizza

I didn’t get used to coming to your store for hamburgers. in fact your previous owners established a really good reputation for making pizza and I don’t necessarily believe you can make good hamburgers cause you don’t have the best track record with rebranding to other things. you tried to make conveyor belt sushi that one time and it sent some people to the hospital so I get very nervous when you start experimenting.

then your chefs take to social media and start saying “those old critically acclaimed pizzas of ours that you loved so much always had some bad flavors, so in our new hamburgers, we actually tried hard to make the tomatoes taste good. these hamburgers are the Best We’ve Ever Done, You Should Preorder Our Hamburgers”

you are now boasting about how delicious your patties are. now I tried your sliders one time a few years ago out of boredom and they were fine, it wasn’t really for me, but whatever. and now I notice how the first people in line for your hamburgers today are talking about how they can’t wait to rip off the buns and all the other toppings and lick their patty’s bald head till it says “oooh I never should've left you, vhenan, oooh.” i’m mostly a vegetarian these days anyway. please stop talking about patties. I don’t fucking care you brought over the same plates and wallpaper and fishtank when you redesigned your restaurant. for $60 I want to eat a good pizza. even a pizza-flavored hamburger. is there anything on this menu that will suit me?

then I go online to see if anyone else feels the same nervousness. and I meet several other people who say yeah, this is not pizza, the only good pizza they’ve ever made was back when they made only margherita; some others who say yeah it’s weird, but I like hamburgers so it’s whatever; several other critics are just bigots who stand outside the store lobbing feces at the windows because this store also serves rainbow-colored pizza-hamburgers; and several others who say removing the cheese from the pizza-hamburger isn’t actually that big a deal, and neither is removing the tomatoes, or the bread, or the sauce, because enjoying pizza is about the Experience and the Ambiance, so they’re going to love this hamburger anyway because come on, it’s the pizza joint! the classic pizza joint! don’t you miss eating their classic pizzas?? now I have never straight-up told anyone to not buy the hamburgers, and yet when I or anyone else mentions missing when this place served pizza, I get alluded to as a pizza tourist with intentions on par with the aforementioned poo-slingers.

if I then see reviews have come out with video footage they even the tomatoes, which are a commonly agreed element in both pizza and hamburgers, are no longer is up to the quality of any acceptable hamburger joint much less this pizzeria in its heyday, it’s gonna ruin my appetite for your hamburgers entirely, much less anything else that comes out of that kitchen. that was the ONE connective tissue between pizza and hamburgers that I cared about; the one thing that everyone looks forward to from you, specifically, even. and if some folks say “hey, even if this is a hamburger joint, it’s a bad sign that these tomatoes look like they’ve been dug out of the garbage and cut by a nine-year-old, and I worry because I don’t want to see you on the internet later complaining about food poisoning, god forbid, or worse, telling people that mild food poisoning is part of the experience,” I think it’s baffling that people shoot back with “why don’t you buy the hamburger before judging if it has food poisoning for yourself?” as if you and I don't deserve better for sixty goddamn dollars than to have to guess whether a hamburger with a dead fly in it is going to ruin our weekend.

look, even if I weren’t very bitter about my favorite pizza joint changing, I think that people who like hamburgers also deserve a better foodie experience for their time and money, no matter what it is, and we are lying to ourselves if we say all the basic ingredients of pizza never really mattered and everything was just window dressing for like, all those decorative background plates and wallpaper that one guy designed 20 years ago. that one guy is still arguing with fans of his old pizzeria on twitter ten years after he even left the place, so I don’t really care what he thinks.

this restaurant’s menu items, whether pizza or hamburger, costs $60 and take several dozens of hours to sit at your restaurant and enjoy. now I have signed up for your dinner experience in the past despite my wariness and been proven wrong, because enjoying your enormous, delicious pizza for hours has been a highlight of my food experiences since I even started calling myself an #eater. even if I dislike how you’ve used some anchovies or chicken bbq toppings in the past, I actually enjoyed when you changed my other favorite menu item into tacos earlier, even if the taco’s faces looked kinda funny.

and I’m sure your staff worked very hard on these hamburgers under extreme conditions; maybe you had Jeremy Allen White screaming HANDS HAIRSTYLES in your ear back there for 10+ years, and that sucks. while I have not forgotten that you axed several of your line cooks (who designed the recipes you’re now serving) just before the finish line, I am sympathetic that this is a make-or-break moment for your restaurant. you’ve borrowed too much money from Uncle Jimmy and if this doesn’t work, we might not see you stay open for long. I do not want that to happen.

but i do not owe this place my patronage just because they still call themselves a pizza joint. they changed too many menu items. I am no longer their ideal clientele. I don’t have all the time and money in the world to waste on hamburgers I know will make me unhappy and I’m tired of being alluded to as a “tourist” for sharing my concerns about the future of one of my favorite restaurants.

so with a very heavy heart, I realized that I’ve kind of... outgrown this pizza-hamburger joint. I don’t care if the hamburger patty gets redeemed anymore. just across the street, supergiant’s gyro truck is putting out ten times the quality that I see from your hamburgers while also providing excellent weekly menu changes based on customer feedback, and metaphor refantazio’s pizzeria is just standing there as a quiet restaurant of the year contender, and oh hey, is lego horizon adventures opening next month? and literally any of those are looking like a wonderful palate cleanser to all of... this.

[leliwardens]

every new veilguard spoiler i learn is no longer the monkeys paw finger curling inward its just making a fist and punching me in the face repeatedly.

[shardain]

you know what, i'm still mad that everyone forgot about the shitty things bioware did in favor of glazing veilguard.

like man yall were so righteously angry about the senior writers getting fired via a tweet for 5 minutes and forgave them and started excusing the firings the moment info about the game started coming out. 'well, most of the writing was done, so it won't effect the game's quality' was an argument i saw an alarming amount of people use to justify and forgive the layoffs. idk. there's no excuse to me to fire all your senior writers via a twitter post they had to see in their own time, and i can't for the life of me understand how that is the unpopular thought on the situation.

like, what the hell man.

[copdog1234]

I take back my skepticism. I think I'm going to enjoy Veilguard as much as Inquisition, which is a good thing in my book.

[lithosaurus]

I know we're in the 'backlash to the backlash' phase of the fandom news cycle but there is something incredibly irritating about the phase of posts that are dismissing the upset about the worldstate updates. Obviously no one was expecting who owns the tavern in Redcliffe to matter twenty years later in Tevinter but I absolutely was expecting the major decisions of Inquisition to matter.

BioWare has put out their statements about how your choices are still your choices from past games and how hard it is to write for the amount of branching options they included in past installments, which is largely true.

However, it absolutely invalidates the big choices that were previously presented as earthshattering decisions if ten years later they're not considered relevant.

Morrigan is going to show up. Does it matter if she has a son she's willing to sacrifice everything for? No.

Varric is going to play some sort of role. Does it matter if Hawke is even alive? No.

Solas is a key figure. Does it matter if he was close to the Inquisitor before being revealed as the Dread Wolf? No.

Dorian's a Magister in Tevinter now. Does it matter if he has/had a relationship with a Ben-Hassrath spy or how close he was to the Inquisitor? No.

I fully understand how difficult it is to write for so many possible options. I'm struggling to understand how to write for a worldstate where none of those decisions have hard answers.

This doesn't have much of a thesis other than a note of annoyance. Obviously, the severe responses that actually go so far as to threaten the writers are out of hand but dismissing other people's reactions to hearing the promises BioWare has made for over a decade are meaningless is kinda crap.