#bioware negative

[kikicolors]

Screaming into the void about Veilguard. Spoilers!

I have this written somewhere else, but I might as well put it here.

It feels so shallow. None of the places we visit feel like they're even on the same planet as how they're described in the original 3 games, and there's no current politics or set world-state as you can't transfer over choices/saves from past games.

I was surprised when we didn't see an intense scene about slavery or the horrors that regularly occur in Tevinter when Dorian paints such a detailed picture of his home in DAI.

Elves have been turned into humans basically, Dalish no longer exist or feel like they have culture. No longer are they suspicious of outsiders. Hey, join the veil-jumpers and get your grubby shem fingers all over ancient artifacts! Essentially Jesus Christ has come back to earth and none of them seem that bothered about it. It should be chaos among the Dalish as they're so hardcore in their beliefs, established by lavellan and Solas' encounters with them in DAI.

The factions just feel like filler that all have the same feel and milquetoast goody-two shoes goal.

Everyone's accents are all over the place. I heard maybe 1 guy sound Tevene in Tevinter, everyone else was American/Dwarven-esque or Fereldan. It's like Andromeda all over again. They just don't care about the details.

No true arguments or bashing of heads, no characters have a strong opinion one way of politics/beliefs that could be seen as morally wrong. No one feels real.

Not even to mention (SPOILERS!)

Solas for some reason 'abhors' blood magic, when in DAI he was willing to teach you if he knew it.

They butchered Solas' character. They're acting as though he's always been cold and evil, out for revenge, and even in his memories during his rebellious days he sacrificed tons of spirits to get what he wanted, which couldn't be further from his character. They also forgot about the implied elven uprising that was growing at the end of Trespasser. Not once does the game mention an agent, or does he have any followers.

There's an ending that says every big choice in past games (Loghain's betrayal, corypheus going into the golden city) was orchestrated by a secret no-name organization that is basically the illuminati, destroying all agency of past characters.

I haven't finished the game, but I hear the titans are never truly touched on other than Lace's powers.

The crows who torture and kill innocents are seen as this group that helps keep the streets safe...?

Why was solas so against the grey wardens killing archdemons if nothing bad happens when you kill them and they're just creatures assigned to each of the elven pantheon? In DAI he acted as though killing Archdemons was a dangerous thing and would worsen the world.

What ever happened to the soul of the old god that Mythal took from Morrigan's child, then Solas took from Mythal? Is that ever touched on?

What about the well of sorrows!?

I should've steeled myself against this game being bad. I knew it was coming. But man, I love the other three dragon age games so it's still horrible to see it happen. I think solas' character assassination was one of the worst things this game did as he's one of the most interestingly written villains IMO (In inquisition).

[leliwardens]

kind of want to throw together a collection of my thoughts from the new veilguard news and while i do have exceptionally positive thoughts over some things most is...not. and that was kind of what i expected from what i had seen previously, and the limited choices thing.

(spoilers + negativity under the cut)

like the return of a certain character, horrific and racist design aside, is for...who exactly? with no choices to influence them, then it's not really for long term fans outside the ones that just like random cameos i suppose? and it's presumably a fun npc for new fans but that could of been fulfilled with a new npc with no ties to previous games.

from what i've seen i do think that really sums it up for my biggest issue. it's even worse than inquisition with trying to cater to everyone, but this time around there's less for the longterm fans (unless you played a certain route, it seems).

and this in mind with veilguard being described as a "send off"? for...who exactly i ask again? i know that's far more opinion based with reviews and will vary from person to person, but like...given you have no influence over any returning characters or major previous events, then it's not sending off anything for long term fans. the most i can assume/hope for is a bookend with killing the last of the old gods and finding a cure, but without any mention of the hero of ferelden it rings hollow. and i truly can believe this is a send off to, i guess, any final remnants of everything that came before a big time skip which i always suspected would happen just not coming from a game that already cut off previous material.

and this is purely my opinion but one of the small fears i had was this was just a springboard for the next mass effect game it......unfortunately seems like the case. both franchises are cash cows but the space military shooter is the bigger one i guess lmao. i like me fine, casual fan, but it never stuck with me the way da did, and i never liked how regressive it felt compared TO da or restrictive when it comes to roleplay. but again opinions. i just want both franchises to be their own thing, but it's being blended together probably because the dev cycles are hot fucking garbage for bigger and bigger games and having to merge elements to make it a big more bearable and more general audience appeal. so i won't be surprised if veilguard was a testing ground for me5 and it shows.

idk, there's other things like i'm not sure what to make of the apparent lack of conflict between characters of lack of meaningful choices, both are very objective based and from what i under don't come from unbias places. regardless i wouldn't be surprised if it were the case given how toothless inquisition was made, so this seems like it's on the right track. and the lack of moral grey? apparently? still feeling like it's an unfortunate natural progression also from inquisition, with the broadening of the audience appeal because you gotta make more and more money but i'd also not be surprised of fan backlash (some fair and some not) lead to more basic palatable choices.

we'll see how it goes when i play but i think my opinion won't change much given there isn't anything you can do about the limited choices, which is really what killed it for me.

[shardain]

im gonna complain about da4 fandom again for a hot sec

so like, back when folks were defending the surprise layoffs, there was an argument i saw from 2 or 3 big DA4 accounts on here that mary kirby deserved to get fired for writing all the racism into the dragon age universe (??????? HUH??? WHA???). anyways it's VERY FUNNY (weird) to see the exact same bloggers gushing about mary kirby's work on DA4, because they found out she wrote their new fav blorbo lucanis. like a month ago yall were saying she was a horrible terrible person and deserved to get fired and were accusing her of being violently racist??? now you're clinging to her every post about her writing for the game??

WHAT

[brambleghost]

I’m enjoying playing Dragon Age Veilguard, I really am, but the dialogue in this game is often so painfully BAD. Each time I think I’m picking a fun maybe sassy option or even a stern one, what comes out of Rook is just so bland. There is no flavor.

Laying off so many people including Mary Kirby one of the original writers and the creator of Varric was 200% detrimental to this game.

[alisadraws]

I must share this so my moots can find it and laugh with me Also this, a very nice comparison with actual good writing and acting in baldur's gate 3

[whereismywarden]

"We wanted to make the game accessible to new players."

It's not though. Not entirely. The plot is a direct follow-up to Trespasser. And romantic or not, the relationship between Solas and the Inquisitor will apparently play a pivotal role. By definition, you're already including content that could make new players feel like they're missing parts of the story (which they are).

Also, you could easily have a default worldstate with next to no references to the older games while still giving returning players the opportunity to input a few additional choices that could crop up if relevant in codex entries or background dialogue. I forgot which game it was, but I remember playing a game once that asked you at the start whether or not you wanted to see past events be referenced during the story. It really could have been that simple.

But by choosing to remove past choices from the game entirely, not only are you not really making the game more accessible to new players, but you might end up alienating half your existing player base.

[zundely]

Sorry for a little petty and not a very positive post but it gets on my nerves a little when I see people being like "My RPG choice/romance is in the Bioware CANON WORLDSTATE we won!" like I dunno what to tell you man, congrats your singleplayer game choices were approved by the corporate or whatever but it's a little weird you want to use it to make your, again, singleplayer RPG game choices feel more valid then other ones.

And while in plot choices it's bad because it feels unecessary discourse about which choices are the 'correct ones', it really rubs me the wrong way when it is about romance options. Because first- there obviously shouldn't be a right and wrong romance choice. There shouldn't be secret winning romance. And second- if it is a thing that there is a romance option that gets loads of attention from creators because they chose it as more canon then others... yall realise why this is actually a bad thing right? Especially when usually it's a straight locked romance? And how it's especially bad when there is no alternative with comparable plot relevance? Like I dunno if that's winning guys when all but one choice in the game with multiplechoices don't get any followup in the narrative.

[lords-of-fortune]

Me, months ago: oooo I hope we see isabela as one of the lords of fortune contacts in veilguard!

The sinister monkey's paw: [curls another finger so that it is flipping me off]

[galedekarios]

i don't know how to put this into words yet so it makes complete sense so bear with me while i gather my thoughts, but...

i think a lot of the criticism i have re: decisions bioware made with veilguard are (at least in part) the company's direct responses to the (in my eyes) often unfounded and disproportionate hate that inquisition received from the fanbase.

[wizardsix]

I can't be the only one who thinks it's so lame that spite ultimately had 0 effect on lucanis whereas the writers made anders suffer for just wanting to live.

[lafaiette]

Also, can we talk about magic? i suppose they wanted to make the game more luring to new players, but magic used to be rare, closed under the lock and feared. Mages were feared and cosidered dangerous. Tevinter was an execption, not a general rule. How come people forgot only ten years ealier there was a regular war between mages and chantry, the very reason Inquisition was formed? Why is there magic, anciet elven magic behin every corner? It feels like reboot.

"It feels like reboot"

Because it is a reboot 💀 Or at least, it's the first step towards one.

Explaining how magic is seen in Thedas, all the different opinions and fears and hopes people have about it, would have been impossible in a single game clearly aimed at luring new players in. They put all the major pieces of explanation in the codex (one part of it is filled and complete since from the start of the game, because it's basically a catalogue detailing everything about Thedas), and let you play as a mage to your heart's content, with no strings, no responsibilities attached.

They tried to preserve some logic in Minrathous - there's mention of how Tevinter's families try to breed the perfect mages to rise in power and influence, so that's good. But you also see a "Noble" mingling with a "Civilian" among the fishermen, and telling her she shouldn't waste time and money on making things better for the poor people. What the hell is she doing there, then? Why isn't she in Minrathous proper, drinking wine and looking down on the poor districts?

Just around every corner, a few feet away from the closest tavern, Venatori are constantly putting up blood magic barriers. The same in the Necropolis, with the Venatori making camp just one door behind the main hub where the Mourn Watch is stationed. Everyone performs rituals, the Circles are barely mentioned, a Forbidden One is hiding behind a door in the Necropolis' main hall and no one ever noticed it before, not even Emmrich.

Statues of Fen'Harel and the Evanuris, elven relics and elven contraptions are hidden everywhere - everywhere. To show how vast and influential the elven empire was? That was probably the devs' intent. Does it always make sense? No. Is it for gameplay purposes, to fill the map with puzzles and stuff to find like in the 2000s? Obviously.

In Inquisition, there was an entire area of the Hinterlands ravaged by the Templars and rebel mages. The refugees were scared of walking the roads to find food because there was wild magic flying around. Rabid templars crazy on lyrium roamed the woods, and the Chantry was powerless.

Elven ruins were scattered around with sense, with a purpose, barely visible among the vegetation, forgotten and avoided, or almost forced to fuse with Chantry's buildings (just look at the Emerald Graves). There was a logic behind the NPCs' and props' locations in the world.

Here, there is simply no logic or consequence to anything ever. The Black Divine is never addressed, as far as I remember. Dalish clans have lost any distinction - the only elven faction you meet is that of the Veil Jumpers, which is a weird cocktail of elves who all know how bad the Evanuris are and random humans and Qunari. Yes, there are humans being allowed to guard ancient elven artifacts in a Dragon Age game. No, they are not called shem. Yes, they all get along swimmingly.

The Crows are not slavers and dangerous figures anymore - they're actually the heroes of Treviso! They treat their fledgling Crows with care and respect, no torture involved. Where did you hear such a preposterous idea? Zevran? Who's Zevran?

Taash says the Qun isn't a prison. How is that possible? They sent assassins after Bull when he defected. They hunt Vashoth and Tal-Vashoth if they dare leave, and if a sten loses his sword, he cannot return home, because his brethren would kill him, as "to a Qunari warrior, the sword is the soul."

So yeah, this was definitely supposed to be a reboot for Dragon Age, just like Andromeda was supposed to be one for Mass Effect. That's why everything falls flat.

[zazikels]

the fact is, if varric lives (and that's an if bc maybe solas does kill him lmao idk how much to trust that minimap reveal) it IS weird that you can't customise a hawke or account for the decision because it would be a little weird if a man who has lived through a wannabe god + blight dragon attacking warden fortress has nothing to say about ghilan'nain and her blight dragon attacking a warden fortress, especially if he potentially lost his best friend (Hawke). It's not outlandish for people to be a little disappointed to not get some customisation there because the choices are not equal to varric. the loss of hawke is obviously a bigger impact on him than whichever warden is there. given varric's personality, it's not outlandish to expect him to talk about it with Rook either especially considering weisshaupt is a thing that happens in the game. if he dies beforehand it doesn't matter, but if he's going to be around? yeah you'd think he'd be talking about it here.

speaking of weisshaupt, A PLACE YOU GET TO GO, a hero of ferelden who made the ultimate sacrifice IS FUCKING INTERRED THERE. But it's just "whining" to expect a nod (esp one that you can customise so it's your hero of ferelden) i guess.

regardless of whether morrigan has mythal or not, who she is as a person does change based on whether she was romanced and whether she had a child. it is natural that this matters and people aren't stupid to be tentatively concerned that nothing of her history is "required" but she's apparently this important vip character who will have more involvement in the game than you expect. like you are allowed to ask: okay what does this mean, what will she be like, will she be the same character i've loved across multiple games?

people are allowed to be upset or concerned that a game series that historically took your choices and your decisions into account has watered that down to 3 choices when certain choices that WOULD impact characters that appear in THIS game aren't. (and to be clear being upset does not mean harassing the devs, don't do that).

[leliwardens]

oh we are so cooked chat i have been seeing "why do you want to do fictional evil actions in a fictional work? sus :/" and "you want racism in your media?" in reference to veilguard there is no going back i fear

[shardain]

you know what, i'm still mad that everyone forgot about the shitty things bioware did in favor of glazing veilguard.

like man yall were so righteously angry about the senior writers getting fired via a tweet for 5 minutes and forgave them and started excusing the firings the moment info about the game started coming out. 'well, most of the writing was done, so it won't effect the game's quality' was an argument i saw an alarming amount of people use to justify and forgive the layoffs. idk. there's no excuse to me to fire all your senior writers via a twitter post they had to see in their own time, and i can't for the life of me understand how that is the unpopular thought on the situation.

like, what the hell man.

[ellie-shy]

I'm so so so so angry that I can't block YT accounts. I just want to check out new updates on DAtV without seeing unnecessary negativity in the comments or in the thumbnail. It's stupid. How can you have an opinion already when the game is not even out yet?

How can some people be so negative? How can you say something without even playing the previous 3 games???

I love Dragon Age with all my heart, even with the imperfections. It saddens me to see such stupidity and negativity from humans who perhaps have mommy or daddy issues.

This is also the same treatment BG3 received before they won GOTY.

Let me just fangirl in YT in peace 😭

[danielnelsen]

i think what’s frustrating is that you’re kinda required to have a strong opinion about solas to potentially get the most out of your choices for dav. having one of only three worldstate options be how you want to handle him is so strange for something that, to me, just felt like a pretty random inconsequential dialogue choice during trespasser. it felt like an immediate reaction to the situation, not an action plan

because honestly my inquisitor wouldn’t really care. he’s done saving the world and has just had a pretty major traumatic post-saving-the-world adventure while dealing with what is basically a very painful terminal illness… he wants nothing to do with any of it anymore! solas can be someone else’s problem! he would NOT spend the next decade trying to figure out what solas is up to, he would get as far away from all that bullshit as possible and try to live a peaceful life now that he’s suddenly no longer dying.

like idk i’ll probably choose that he wants to stop solas. but it doesn’t feel like so significant a choice to make it one of the only lasting impacts of the previous games. he already hasn’t seen solas in a few years by trespasser and wasn’t that close with him before and would like to take a nap