#been seeing Much Discourse about this on the internet lately for some reason and that's my 2 cents

[kazz-brekker]

i feel like everyone on here saying that even if rhaenyra peacefully took the throne daemon would definitely cause a civil war to make sure one of his sons succeeds her are forgetting that (a) daemon's eldest daughter was going to be queen of westeros one day and his grandchild through her would be heir to the throne (b) daemon is like 15 years older than rhaenyra so barring her death in childbirth or some unexpected accident she would probably outlive him anyway

[cherrymoonvol6]

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[19catsncounting]

I Got Really Into Anti/Proship Discourse And Read +30 Academic Studies - My Findings

(It’s a Yapfest but the whole post is a very long essay and study on morality and fiction and children’s safety and rape culture with a fuckton of freely accessible academic articles and resources on the subject, and I want to talk to other people about it. For a shorter abstract with all the articles and more easily ignored yapping, see my shiny new Carrd:)

It’s been a little shocking lately to have certain discussions with some parts of fandom. I spoke about shipping/harassment and how that contributes to the death of fandom on TikTok assuming that younger folks are just really, really intense about preventing sexual violence, but the more I saw the words “morally wrong” and “disgusting” and “addiction,” the more I thought about this guy-

That’s Jerry Falwell, and I fucking hate this dead guy. You see, Jerry Falwell was a preacher who hated porn, feminism, and homosexuality. And I'm seeing his rhetoric and reworked quotes a lot.

Jerry would say stuff like:

“Pornography hurts anyone who reads it - garbage in, garbage out.”

“Someone must not be afraid to say ‘moral perversion is wrong.’ If we do not act now, homosexuals will ‘own’ America!”

Jerry wanted people to believe that it’s possible to see so much sexual content that it warps your sexuality, because he was gay and wanted to think that was due to thinking about gay sex too much. Jerry did not have a lot of evidence to prove that homosexuality was harmful, so he relied heavily on how “morally distasteful” it seemed to be to suburban Americans.

I spent the majority of my teen years arguing against Jerry’s rhetoric for the right to live as a lesbian online, and I never thought I’d see morality rhetoric in people I’m otherwise very politically aligned with. And I definitely never thought fandom of all things, in all its beautiful subversive glory, would seriously start advocating for censorship, anti-porn, and to consume fanwork with moral purity.

So, I’d like to have a deeper discussion on it, both here on Tumblr and on TikTok, but that does mean checking a few things at the door:

Personal feelings decide your personal life. What you feel is valid for you, not anyone else.

In general, things that do not cause direct and undeniable harm should not be broadly prohibited just because they’re weird or distasteful to the majority of folks. Ex. Loitering does not cause harm and is a tool of systemic oppression.

The discussion of “fictional CSEM” is the most inflammatory fork of this and it is often used to derail these kinds of conversations. This is all I will say on it - the legal status of explicit visual depictions of minors is muddy. In the US, there is just one dude in Utah who pled guilty for possessing explicit lolicon he bought by mail order without also possessing CSEM with real children, and explicit writing about fictional minors has been settled as protected free speech. Dedicated organizations from the NCMEC to Chris Hansen have asked that fictional content is not reported as CSAM as it is not actionable and clogs up finite resources. 90% of NCMEC reports were not actionable last year. There are studies suggesting that virtual CSEM or other non-victim alternatives could reduce actual child harm, but there is need for further research.

We’re all in agreement that untagged NSFW is not cool, and kids deserve kid-only sections of the internet. People who are triggered by or dislike problematic content deserve to be able to not see it. 👍

 (I’ve seen the argument that blocking tags/people should not be required - sorry, PTSD still requires that you manage your triggers, up to and including swearing off platforms just as I have sworn off bars/soap brands/etc to avoid my triggers.)

I have found a lot of accessible and free articles and studies that I will link throughout so that we can discuss the fact-based reasoning, in an effort to have a civil conversation.

(Also because we are not flat earthers, we are Fandom, and if we’re going to be annoying little shitheels in an “Um Actually” contest, we’re going to have the sources to back it up.)

Minors and Explicit Material

I’m not supporting minors engaging with explicit material. I have such little interest in the subject that I’m not even going to bring in articles, but you can feel free to. I personally engaged with explicit material as a preteen of my own free will and did not find it to be harmful, and the majority of people throughout human history have been exposed to explicit material at an early age with varying degrees of harm. There are undeniable legal and harm-driven differences between a 12 year old girl looking at Hustler on her own, a 14 year old boy being sent nudes from a grown woman, and a 6 year old viewing PornHub. (And I think the guardians of that 6 year old should be charged with grooming just like the woman, tbh.)

Personal Disclaimer

I’m an adult survivor of CSA and incest. I’m a happily married adult. I don’t personally like lolicon/shotacon/kodocon. I don’t like kids. I don’t like teens. I’m personally not attracted to underage fictional characters. I have family, the idea of fucking any of them makes me want to throw up and die, so I don’t write or read RPF of my family.

I am really, really fucking intense about preventing sexual violence, supporting survivors, and fandom, which is where this all comes from.

I read and love problematic fiction - my favorites are ASOIAF, Lolita, and VC Andrews. The most “problematic” thing I’ve personally written are Lucifer/Michael fics from Supernatural back in 2012. They are “brothers” in CW Christ, not blood. They do not have any blood.

Gen Z and Online Grooming

In 2002, a survey of 1500 minors from 10-17 found that 4% had been solicited for sexual purposes by an adult online.

In 2023, that number increased to 20%.

While the linked 2023 Thorn report suggests that the vast majority of these inappropriate interactions happened on platforms that allow for interpersonal communication, which by and large minors were greatly discouraged from and had less access to in the early 2000’s, a trauma-informed approach does not allow for blame to fall on the children. The guardians of those children have monumentally failed to restrict and educate before giving children the means to access those platforms.

It is my uncited but personal opinion that the increased rate of grooming, as well as an increased interest in combating rape culture, has led to well-intentioned individuals to become digital vigilantes attacking those who they hold responsible for their traumatic experiences in a search for catharsis and justice denied for themselves as well as a desire to make the internet safer for other children, whom they are increasingly aware are entering online spaces unsupervised at distressingly young ages.

Is harassment and bullying bad for perpetrators of it?

Before we get into how ship-related hate campaigns do not affect predation or combat rape culture, we should acknowledge that it’s actually pretty harmful for the people who cyberbully. Not just in the legal/social consequences, but people who participate in cyberbullying and cyberhate campaigns have higher rates of depression, estrangement from their parents, self-effacing habits, social anxiety, lower empathy, and so forth.

One study suggests that the treatment and prohibitive for cyberbullying, which contributes to a culture of cyberhate and a lower likelihood to report or confront other incidents of harassment or toxicity online, can be combatted with media competency to increase empathy along with other important life skills.

Some Common Pro-Censorship Myths

“Pornography is Addictive/Consumption of Pornography Leads to Increasingly Hardcore Imagery And Ultimately Real-World Violence” - The American Psychological Association does not recognize Porn Addiction as real and the DSM-5 does not classify it as an addiction. Additionally, many methods used in articles claiming that porn is addictive or causes users to seek out more hardcore material were flawed or biased. There is actually some evidence that compulsive porn use, the closest you can get to a porn addiction diagnosis, is associated with shame and the user’s belief that pornography is morally wrong, which sex-negative attitudes encourage.

“Jaws caused shark culling” - That's unfortunately a simplification that ignores a LOT of surrounding context. WW2’s modern naval battles with an increase of ship sinkings and thus contact with sharks prompted the invention and use of shark repellant by aviators and sailors in the 1940’s. The most deadly and famous shark attack of all time was the USS Indianapolis sinking in 1945, which led to 12-150 deaths. The 1974 book Jaws by Peter Benchley, which was the entire basis of the movie, was inspired by One Fucking Dude who started shark hunting tours and overall seemed to have a really immaculate vibe. The interstate highways that finished in the 1950’s increased beach tourism in the 60’s and onwards, inspiring the American surf culture, further increasing the cultural desire to purge sharks for the new swath of beachgoers and their fondness for using surfboards which make them look like seals to sharks. Additionally, 1975’s Jaws inspired a huge desire for education about sharks, and the relationship between problematic media and education will be the core of this yapperoni pizza.

“The Slendermen Killings/Other Fiction Inspired Crimes” - The ACLU states that “There is no evidence that fiction has ever driven a sane person to violence.” Inspired crimes are indeed no less tragic, and thankfully rare, but people who suffer from inability to discern reality and fiction do not necessarily need fiction to commit violence. The “Son of Sam” murder spree was not inspired by a book or movie, but instead Berkowitz’ auditory hallucinations.

“Violent videogames DO cause violence” - After a great deal of funding and study, the American Psychological Association has concluded that teens and younger may have increased feelings of aggression and not necessarily physically violent outbursts as a direct effect, but older teens and young adults do not encounter statistically meaningful rates of aggression.

“Your brain can’t tell the difference between fiction and reality” - Factually incorrect. Children as young as 5 years old can tell the difference, and they can even be more suspicious about “facts” that come from sources they know also host fiction, such as TV shows.

“This stuff shouldn’t be online because it can be used to groom a child” - While I could not find specific statistics on how often pornography is used to desensitize child victims, nor how often that is specifically used in online grooming, and especially not how much of that pornography is made from fictional characters - out of a mixed group of convicted offenders with adult and child victims, 55% of offenders used pornography to manipulate their victim. I would never refute that explicit fanart or fanfic could be used to desensitize a child, but that is by far not the only tool (asking about sexual experiences/identity, making jokes, etc is extremely common grooming behavior), and there is no evidence to suggest that it is used to a statistically significant degree. In my own anecdotal experience, normal vanilla legal pornography is used with far greater prevalence, and there isn’t a similar movement to shame its production for that possibility. Nor should the creators of any material, pornographic or otherwise, share blame in the actions of a predator.

The Fiction Affects Reality Carrd

(No hate to the person who made it, in fact I give props to them for trying to find unbiased sources, I just want to point out that their interpretations of their articles are kinda flawed and one of their studies is a kind of a perfect example on small and culturally biased samples.)

Reading Fiction Impacts Aggressive Behavior - (I cannot access the full study but this article is the primary source used in the Carrd and it goes into detail) - A study showed that 67 university students were more annoyed with a loud buzzer after reading a short story about a physical fight between roommates compared to a story with nonviolent revenge. However, this study was conducted at Brigham Young University, the same campus where we got a whole video series of hot ethical takes like “I’d rather shoot a kitten than drink coffee,” so uh. Yeah. Kind of a prime example on why it’s important to have large and culturally varied sampling. (Another BYU study with 137 BYU students being odd about moral ambiguity in fiction, just because I’m starting to add Dr. Sarah M. Coyne to my list of “Sarah’s That I Dislike.”)

Your Brain on Fiction - a NYT article that describes Theory of the Mind and how fMRIs captured how readers’ minds would light up centers of muscle control when reading sentences like “Peter kicked.” The quote “The brain, it seems, does not make much of a distinction between reading about an experience and encountering it in real life; in each case, the same neurological regions are stimulated” is speaking of motor functions. Emotional centers of the brain were not included in the study.

How Fiction Changes Your World - a Boston Globe article that actually describes how people who read more fiction are more empathetic and tend to believe in a just world. It does not state that the empathy a reader feels for fictional characters extends to corrupting their moral compass. In fact, there’s such a thing as a “fictive license” to explore taboo themes more thoroughly because it is not real - 123 participants were interviewed after watching two actors play the part of detective and murderer being interviewed, and participants who were told it was fake had more varied and inquisitive responses.

The Social Impact of Books - Actually reuses the previous study about the just world, so point remains. Empathy is understanding, not mirroring.

Is Problematic Fiction Good for Survivors of Trauma?

It absolutely depends on the individual.

Writing expressively about traumatic experiences has been shown to be effective to reduce depression, or more effective in reducing dysphoria and anxiety than talking to fellow survivors, and Written Exposure Therapy is broadly prescribed to survivors of trauma, with one study centering on car crash survivors finding that WET resolved their PTSD symptoms and continued to be effective after a year.

In this study, which sadly is not available online but it is too important to leave out completely, survivors of CSA were given fictional novels about CSA and in closely reading and analyzing those stories, were able to understand their own experiences and were indeed drawn to write about their own experiences as well.

Engaging in problematic fiction, like all fiction, allows for consent as well as control. If at any point a survivor does not feel in control or wishes to stop, they can at that instant. They can even rewrite their narratives and take control of their story in fictionalizing and changing the account. They can even try to understand what their abuser felt through fiction, which is helpful considering that the vast majority of survivors had a relationship that had been positive and even loving with their abusers at times.

Is Problematic Fiction Good for Everyone Else?

It again depends on the individual.

Antis might be a little right that most people don't want to read problematic stories. In a study exploring whether fiction can corrode morals, 83% of study participants stated that they would prefer not to read a short story justifying baby murder if they had the choice, even if that exploration isn’t inherently harmful.

This very small sample study of 13 participants discussed how young women interpreted sexual themes in writing, including explicit fanfiction, and how that was beneficial and informative to explore sexual desire and examine healthy and unhealthy relationships in a safe and controlled environment.

This meta-analysis further discusses how problematic and sexual themes in YA literature are useful to illustrate what sexual violence looks like, and begin educational conversations through those depictions to break down harmful myths such as “if she didn’t scream, she wanted it.”

Empowered by the “Fictive License” previously cited, problematic fiction can be beneficial for anyone who desires and is capable of consuming and analyzing it.

This study analyzing abusive aspects of three films - Beauty and the Beast, Twilight, and 50 Shades of Gray - concluded that these abusive themes should be discussed to increase recognition and awareness, not censored based on those problematic themes.

This study of 53 women were asked to read different versions of fictional intimate partner violence flags, or “toxic behavior” like surveillance, control, etc. In every version of the story, whether the female or male had those behaviors either courting or committed, the women recognized the behavior as wrong.

Another study that reading allows for the moral laboratory to explore morality in fiction without decisive impact to corroding moral permissibility.

Is There Ever Any Point Where Fictional Interests Definitively Speak On Someone’s Morality?

In short - not really. Loving Jason Vorhees does not put you at risk of murdering campers as long as you know he’s not real. Writing Wincest does not mean you look forward to family reunions, as long as you know incest isn’t okay in the real world. The real world, where real people are harmed, is where you find the measure of someone’s character.

This Psychology Today article is the best source I could find for quotes from a fantastic book ‘Who's Been Sleeping in Your Head? The Secret World of Sexual Fantasies’ by Brett Kahr regarding taboo sexual fantasies and how they are not only common, but not inherently harmful.

There are people who enjoy problematic media in an entirely nonsexual sense, of course. I myself don’t get off on problematic media - I think it’s just interesting to explore different experiences, and I think that can be revolutionary.

Additionally, fantasies in general have almost always been in the vein of “things you don’t want to really happen in reality.” In a study of 351 asexuals, more than half reported that they fantasize about having sex, but that doesn’t mean that they actually want to. You can fantasize about dating Billie Eilish - it doesn’t mean that you’d be happy dealing with celebrity culture.

(I personally fantasize about the internet being just for adults, but in practice I think that would be incredibly harmful and isolating for at-risk youth and LGBTQ teens) Fantasies always pluck out only the bits of reality that you want to engage with.

If You Get Off On Fictional Kids, You’re Attracted to Something About Them Being Kids

Not inherently, surprisingly. Wearing a schoolgirl uniform is a pretty common roleplay, and it’s not meant to “fool” the participants into thinking they’re indulging in pedophilia. There’s a wealth of emotional and sexual nuance in that specific kink - innocence and virginity play, tilted power dynamics in ‘scolding’ the uniform wearer for dress code violations, even the concept of a sexually provocative “teenager” can be played with without shame, because the world of fetish and fantasy is separated from condonable actions for the vast, vast majority of adults. (The only study I could find on this is this small study of 100 white guys found on Facebook, which itself states it is not definitive, found that while there might be correlation between attraction to children and interest in schoolgirl uniforms, there is no proof of causation. AKA, the rectangular pedophile might indeed like square schoolgirl uniforms, but not everyone - in fact, the majority at nearly 60% in this very survey - that likes square schoolgirl uniforms is a rectangular pedophile.)

Even sexual age play between adults is not indicative of pedophilia because it exists in a setting between two adults who fully understand that the mechanics are completely fake, allowing the power dynamics that would be abusive between an adult and child to be ethically explored.

I don’t have an official-looking study to cite, but I have asked people who like content about underage fictional characters why they do so. Overwhelmingly, a lot of the ones who like underage age gaps like the fantasy of an older and more experienced character taking a younger one under their wing, to have the opportunity to commit violent and blatantly objectifying harm and yet try to create what inevitably does not truly pass as consent, but seems near enough to the characters. Some think that the characters themselves have an interesting chemistry. Some read underage fic and still imagine the characters as adults. Some like to explore the feelings of shame that the older character must feel and how they mentally compartmentalize to go forward with the relationship, and how the younger character found themself in that vulnerable position - which is exploring a harmful situation through fiction to understand how it could play out in real life.

People who like fictional incest like exploring the shameful components of that taboo relationship - and I have seen a lot of works that compare how bad incest could be to other harms, like the Gravecest route in a game with parental cannibalism. And then there are folks who like analyzing the codependency of having one person fulfill every social need - family, friend, lover, AKA Wincest.

What makes a predator if it’s not just sexual attraction?

90% of CSA survivors know their abuser, discrediting the still-entirely-too-popular Stranger Danger myth. And shockingly, only 50% of abusers are pedophiles.

That means 50% of child molesters do not have sexual interest in children because they are children, but they victimized children because they are more accessible in lieu of adult partners, with increased rates of incest.

While I could not find a specific study on the relation between dehumanization/objectification of child victims and child molesters (and if you find one, please send it to me!), this study speaks on dehumanization as a precursor to adult sexual violence.

This study, conducted on convicted child molesters in prison, showed that child molesters tend to fantasize about children while in a negative mood, further contributing to the theory that child victims are dehumanized prior to abuse.

This very small sample study found that in a mixed sample of internet only/contact crime/mixed offenders, offenders who had contact with children had lower rates of fantasizing about children.

In short, half the time a child predator is someone who wants to offend against a child regardless of attraction to the fact they are a child.

Resources To Recognize Grooming/Abuse Victims/Predators

I would absolutely be remiss to not share my collection of resources to help detect signs of abuse/grooming as well as warning signs of a predator who may be targeting elders/women/teens/children:

Darkness 2 Light is a fantastic resource overall, this page details stages and signs of grooming.

RAINN personally helped me through my PTSD journey, and this article detailing the signs of sexual trauma in teenagers is thorough and non-judgemental

Signs of abuse as well as warning signs of predation that does not use gendered language nor play into the Stranger Danger myth.

Education, not Censorship

I think a lot of the energy against taboo content among young people still has a lot to do with the desire to end rape culture. The tools that we Millennial Tumblrinas gave you Gen Z kids were snatches of leftist theory, deplatforming, and voting with your dollar, so it’s reasonable to think that removing taboo content like pedophilia, incest, rape fights rape culture.

It doesn’t.

Rape culture is fought by education. Comprehensive sex education, education about consent. Talking about what consent looks like, what sex can look like, what rape can look like.

There should be more taboo content to talk about these things, to show all the shades it can look like. From a violent noncon to fics that aren’t even tagged as dubcon yet still are in shades that are hard to suss out, we should talk about it.

A Non-Empirical Example Of Good Media Analysis and Education to Combat Rape Culture

Let’s use the example of Daemon and Rhaenyra Targaryen’s relationship in House of the Dragon. Canonically, in both the book and the show, they have a romantic relationship that appears for the most part to be positive (the show being more contentious but I dedicated an aside to Sarah Hess and our beef at the bottom of my Carrd, but feel free to ask how I feel about writing producers with any variation of the name ‘Sarah’) despite an age gap, a sexual relationship that began while Rhaenyra was a minor, and incest - the problematic hat trick if you will.

I have seen anti-Daemyra shippers condemn Daemyra shippers for “Condoning grooming, age gaps, pedophilia, and incest.” Which is not just a broad, inaccurate, and harmful statement, it’s not at all constructive or educational analysis.

It would actually be beneficial to say “Daemon is grooming Rhaenyra as a teenager with gifts, devoted attention that takes advantage of her isolation and vulnerability, frequent nonsexual touches, the extreme desensitization to sexuality in the brothel visit,” etc etc. And even so, it is not useful to say that people cannot still ship the relationship and acknowledge those aspects. They might want to further explore the issues of consent in their dynamic in fiction, they may want to strip away some of them with narrative reimagining. Some might want to ignore the taboos completely and indulge in the fantasy entirely, and some might find the actors hot as hell - AKA, anyone who watches the show.

It’s honestly a little similar to me in how Jerry Falwell would tell his followers not to watch or read or take in any media that dealt with homosexuality unless it was condemning it - even Will & Grace was on Jerry’s shitlist. And so, Jerry’s followers missed out on a lot of media that could have educated them about queerness, could have humanized queer people for them - and that did not make queers go away. Just like ignoring or shutting out media about incest, rape, and other forms of sexual violence doesn’t make those things go away - it just tends to make you less informed, and little less capable of empathy towards people affected by those subjects.

So let’s stop shaming those that ship a complicated dynamic - you get less fanworks exploring those taboos, and less of a discussion overall. You shut down the morality lab of fiction, and to be honest, it’s wet sock behavior.

Some FanFiction Specific Studies

How dubcon fanfiction can flesh out the intricacies and messiness of realistic consent

A review of darkfic written about Harry Potter in 2005 (which, I will personally attest has never been outdone in how profoundly taboo those works were)

Interviews with 11 Self Insert writers who wrote on themes of rape, abuse, control, yandere, etc, and how that was beneficial to some who had experienced sexual violence themselves

Conclusion:

H…holy shit, you actually read all of that?? Congrats dude! That is a lot of time and brain power to dedicate to any one thing!

By the way, I am not really gifted at writing articles or any of that junk, and I tried to make my hyperlexic ass a little more accessible instead of bringing out all the $5 words. I am literally just an autistic who took a couple technical writing classes over a decade ago and really wanted to sort out my thoughts and try to have a platform for discussion. Also, I am really fucking bad at math. I failed two different college level statistics classes twice each. Gun to my head, I could not tell you what a standard deviation is, which is why I worked entirely with the percentages.

And I do want to have a discussion! I would in fact like to not report anyone for sending me gore or death threats or any of that stuff! I don’t think everyone will agree with me, in fact I’m certain that you could find studies that contradict some of mine, and I’d love to discuss them!

I’m sure it will still be tempting to throw around accusations of pedophilia because sometimes, confronting your previously held beliefs is incredibly uncomfortable. If you could not do that, that would be great? I don’t like being compared to someone who profoundly abused me just because I have a different opinion on how to combat rape culture and empower survivors. If you can do that, I’ll do my absolute best to be cheerful and welcoming and respectful as well. 😁

PS - I’m also not really going to be phased if you call me weird or cringe - I am. Always have been. Cringe, weirdness, and autism have made me do and capable of doing some fantastically neat and impressive stuff. But if you try to say something like “proshippers are too yucky and weird to be in fandom” - I’m going to have to refer you to your similarity to Kate Sanders of Lizzy McGuire fame, you “prEpz >:(“ - [My Immortal, legendary author unknown]

[dapg-otmebytheballs]

I hardly ever go on twt (it's too open it's too exposed it's too algorithmcally driven nowadays, it's not my thing) but ofc as many others have pointed out, that kinda dogpiling and harassment over anything that's not meeting a purity standard is not exclusive to twt, it happens a ton on tumblr too. I don't say this in defence of twt (bc I don't have a horse in that race anyway) but more to explain why I say anything about this stuff happening on another platform: I don't want to get complacent. I don't want to act like it's something we are unaffected by here, I have seen people driven off, harassed, doxxed, gossip about them spread through public and private channels, all over some random fics or posts that didn't pass a purity standard (or often because of some personal conflict which people dogpiled on and used vague accusations to weaponise against someone they had personal beef with, that's also common enough)

On twt of course rage bait and seeking engagement means something more than it does here because of algorithm reasons, but even so we should know not to tolerate dogpiling, not to tolerate doxxing, not to tolerate harassment campaigns because that's not something tumblr is free of. DnP have never minded fic of themselves we know that already. Hey have read and joked around with smutty fic about them, they have outright seriously said that they don't mind the fic. They are also as of late using quite sexually charged language in their videos let's be real. As someone else pointed out, anyone who is still watching dnp is being exposed to nsfw language like that already. Anyone who is uncomfortable with talk and content that's nsfw in any particular way has the responsibility themselves to not engage.

Every space every person every blog and account is not going to be minor friendly sfw, that's just how it is, and we shouldn't expect people to take responsibility for other people who might see their stuff. If minors are entering spaces that host adult content be it any social media site or youtube or ao3 or whatever, it's up to minors (or their guardians) to keep away from content that could be bothersome by blocking tags and people or filtering content. But that doesn't make it the responsibility of every adult just living their adult lives to never say anything nsfw bc some minor might see it bc that's just ceding ground to the "keep every part of the internet child safe and family friendly" kind of shit social media sites have been pulling which both 1) makes the waters murky and makes spaces much more dangerous for minors and 2) in practice is only used to get rid of queer shit as we have seen on tumblr

When discourse starts up anywhere it's gonna have people think on it at least and form opinions and share ideas, and I only bring this up because I hope we can keep away from repeating harmful ideas, and especially from causing hurt and harm to others in the community just because we didn't ike something they wrote or said.

Tldr: Dogpiling and harassment does happen on Tumblr also and should never be seen as acceptable. DnP have never minded fic. "Think of the children" rhetoric is harmful. And a side note: 'porn addiction' is not real it's pseudoscience

[skye707]

How would the riddlers react to someone coming out to them as trans ? I really love your blog !! always bring me comfort when i feel a little down, so i have to ask this

Unburied - That's awesome! I mean he already hypothesized as such (of course he knows, he can read people like a book), but he waited for you to tell him yourself. So, as much as it is a welcoming feeling for you, he feels just as loved. Someone trusts him enough to open up that very personal aspect of their life to him? He could shed a tear, but he won't. Not the look he's going for.

ZY - Disregard for gender norms and societal pressure to fit into a finite box? That's pretty metal. His core belief is that human progress is all about thinking outside the box, and someone who has the guts to challenge centuries old thinking is definitely capable of such. You've got his respect, that's for sure.

Dano - Oh! Okay, wow. He's a little internet cretin, so he's more than familiar with the ignorant discourse that too many people experience when making the decision of coming out. So, naturally, he is now going to be your own little watchdog online. No, he's not going to tell you, he's gonna do it behind the scenes you might say. Point is, if you decide to come out publicly, no one is going to bother you. For any reason.

YJ - Ah, that's so cool. You trust him enough to present the truth about yourself. That makes him feel super special and warm and fuzzy, and now he's a stuttering mess again. Even goes a little pink in the cheeks. But also, he's a little jealous of your confidence. That's a huge decision! Maybe you could give him some pointers?

Gotham - I see, interesting. Tell him more, if you're comfortable with that? He's such an analytical little bean; he's got to know everything! More than that though, his friend has just released new information to him about their personal life. As such, he needs to file all of it away in his little mental filing cabinet for later use.

BTAA - Ah, congratulations, kid! A metamorphosis, you might say. How artistic! That gives him an idea for his next puzzle!! Next time you see his beautiful face on the news, you can hold close to your heart the knowledge that you and your spectacular story of self-realization played a key role in the creation of his magnum opus.

Arkham - That's great, now help him move this piece of scrap metal out of the way. This Ed is not overly concerned with the details of the human body. Machines are more his speed. Don't mistake the disinterest for insincerity, though. He does care that you thought so highly of him that you would come out to him. He's just emotionally constipated; his own emotions included.

BTAS - Really? How intriguing! Like Gotham, he wants all the information you can give him. Not just so he can say he has the info, he genuinely wants to do everything he can to make you feel comfortable and safe around him.

Telltale - Hm, congratulations. He doesn't even flinch. Grandpa has been everywhere and seen everything. Absolutely nothing phases him. However, does it seem like he's being a little nicer to you lately? A little less grouchy? Probably not, but maybe.

(p.s., I'm really happy for you, anon! You should always be yourself, no matter what that looks like, and I hope the people in your life hold the same sentiment 💙)

[commander-gloryforge]

okay bit of a ramble incoming but. me and writing, we havent had the best relationship lately, mostly because ive been dealing with imposter syndrome a lot, and writer spaces dont seem to be as welcome as they used to be to me. but for the past months ive been trying to get into a more healthy mindset about writing. its just difficult because many of the author communities im apart of dont seem to agree with said mindset.

so. heres a thing that happened. theres this book series, a ya romantasy, that kind of went viral on booktube/booktok for being mostly shitty. i've watched a couple of reviews of it, most of them negative, can generally agree with most criticisms of the book, and it is, in my mind, ticked off as a "bad book". dont be like that author, dont do what she does, dont write like this, everyone will hate your book.

me and my father were sitting in the garden, next to eachother, me writing and him listening to an audiobook. he tells me about how good it is and how much he likes it. theres dragons, its so cool, its such an interesting world, he's at book two now and cant wait for the third one to be released. to my surprise, its the exact book that booktubers everywhere talk shit about. now ive seen people on the internet that liked the book, but theyre just some guys on the web and i dont know them and their opinion doesnt mean much. but my dad? i know him. i know his tastes. and he likes it.

and i think that made me realise something. i still dont like that book, but someone, a person whose taste and opinions i (usually) value, does. he doesnt care about the plot holes that others see, he doesnt know about the discourse surrounding certain tropes, he likes it because its fantasy, and theres dragons, and theres magic, the fact that theres a disabled protagonist is cool to him, and THERES DRAGONS! and so many other people also like it. for whatever reason.

its a "bad book", apparently, thats what most people call it, but to some its a good book. and if someone just constantly keeps finding issues with a book, then it wasnt for them in the first place wasnt it? critiques and negative reviews and rants are still valid and, i'd say, needed. but in the end, they dont matter much. the book isnt offensive or "problematic" or anything but it really is just kinda bad and people still like it and it really is fine.

my writing is gonna be bad to someone. my writing style is convoluted and kind of silly and just. bad. okay. and there are people that still like it. that doesnt mean i dont want to improve and get better as a writer, i do. for the people that like my stuff, for myself, i will get better, but like. its fine. im fine. someone will like what i write. there will be bad parts of my writing that some people will hate, and some will ignore, and thats the fact for every book and every kind of art.

ill be fine. ill just keep writing and things will be fine.

[basedkikuenjoyer]

A very cool one to finally check off the list. I have been familiar with Serial Experiments Lain since I first got into anime fandoms in the early 00s. Even had the first DVD volume in my collection. But there was always other stuff I wanted to finish more and I felt like I got the basic idea enough to like, recognize when something else was referencing it. Know a lot of people who'd call it their favorite and it was easily one of the most influential anime of the 90s.

And now I've finished it. Series is kinda infamous for being hard to really summarize but the gist of it is we start on a schoolgirl committing suicide. Her classmates get emails from her after. One quiet girl Lain gets sucked into the digital world as a result. Shit gets weird. Really weird. Truth be told, the plot is secondary to a lot of cool aesthetic choices and ruminations on the growing relevance of computers and networking technology in society. Coming out in the late 90s, Serial Experiments Lain deserves its modern reputation for being prescient about that. Seeing it properly start to finish today though? What are my thoughts with the lens of hindsight?

It's...quaint. Might sound like I'm trying to be edgy saying that but at about the halfway point that's all I could think. Because it kinda feels like we're coming out the other side. There's a reason a series like Frieren, advertising itself from the jump as after the journey, has been such a blazing wildfire recently. I might have some criticism of specific "discourses" or whatever but on the whole you are seeing something shift as Zoomers take the stage. I think that'll click about the halfway point there. The oldest there by any definition are still under 30 and all. There's only so much culture can reflect your impact...but the more I see that taking shape the more I see the balance emerging. Y'all don't have that little shred of entitlement my generation has from growing up in "good times" so when you get a little older and learn how much you can influence things more locally...y'all like, do it instead of coming up with a bunch of excuses.

Point being, that's kinda how Lain feels watching it today. I've watched us go through the peak of prescience, circa 2014, and then it went supernova, and now we have a world where Facebook is increasingly a graveyard of AI comments under AI images. That specific example of the dead sending messages through the wires...yeah it's an annoying nuisance spam bot spoofing. Social media is a ticking time bomb, advertisers are gonna catch on. Not to go all Dead Internet Theory and all, but it has hit a point a good chunk of it is fake.

Meanwhile a site that tried to keep a bit of the old Internet alive like Tumblr is having a Renassiance. When you grew up with the Internet, you gained that resistance because the worst aspects of its impact were limited by the technology. Now people are learning how to compartmentalize it better. Nostalgia for the days of the corner computer desk reflects that.

Lain was kinda creepy and weird and thought-provoking in 2004 when I first saw a bit of it. But in 2024? This oddly nostalgic comfort food show. And I know that doesn't apply equally because Paranoia Agent is something I have more nostalgia for and it still hits that unsettling tone. I think the difference is Lain using high tech aesthetics so much whereas...you could kinda do Paranoia Agent in any era.

[artificialwizard]

Venting and rambling about ai art discourse

Feel free to ignore this + this isnt an invitation to argue back and forth with me about ai

My tag system on main for years now has been

#art = abstract art

#representational art = all non-abstract art

( + #dreamscape = art that can't be neatly categorized as abstract or representational + art that reminds me of dreaming )

Bc at the time I created this tag system i was very fed up with abstract art and modern art being dismissed as Not Real Art by some assholes and i wanted to put abstract art first in my space and have representational art be the one that needs a descriptor to differentiate it from "normal"/"real" art

Currently holding myself back from doing something similar to be petty about the never ending ai art backlash/discourse

Haven't been posting my abstract art or ai art online much lately but i still make a lot of both (+ getting back into writing and prob won't be posting much of that either). Sharing art online, other than with close friends, seems like hell to me rn.

Maybe someday i'll start posting my art again it just sucks that anytime i go on any social media from discord to youtube theres an 80% chance i see people shitting on the artistic mediums that i'm most passionate about

And its not like the ai hate train has slowed down the rancid attitudes around abstract art lol, not that I'd stop making AI art if abstract art was more respected

Abstract art is the easiest and most rewarding way for me to express myself creatively and it gels so well with my perfectionism issues bc perfection is Not the point (except when it is, but then its an artistic choice not a constant obligation for every piece). A piece about grief doesnt need to have perfect straight lines or symmetry, the art can be messy if it suits the tone I'm going for.

And AI image and music generation is very exciting to me! I've always been curious about what it would be like getting to see the creation of a new way of making art and its been very cool being able to somewhat follow AI innovations since 2018 and then get to experiment with it myself once more ai tools became accessible!!

Whether im the ai art im making is abstract or representational, i love not having full control over the result! I love bouncing ideas back and forth with the AI. I love having to combine my visual art skills and my language/description skills.

I use midjourney et al. the same way I'd make my OCs in dressup games while brainstorming ideas. Mindless doodling that can often lead to writers block breakthroughs.

I also use midjourney et al. to make quick vent art when I'm feeling strong emotions just like I'd do in my sketchbook or in my digital art apps.

And sometimes i'm using ai to spend hours trying to make something very specific i want to create.

Idk its all just tools to me. Midjourney. Paint Tool Sai. Pen and paper. I get the same joy/relief out of making art with all of the above

Im not aiming for fame or money, i make 0-200$ a year from art, usually 0. I just want to have a little corner of the internet to share my images and reach a handful of ppl who appreciate them and want to discuss abstract & ai art with me thats it. Im not coming for your art job, i dont allign myself with corporations aiming to further disadvantage workers in artistic industries or artists who freelance

Anyway reason #2 i slowed down on posting art is grief has been kicking my ass these past 4 years. Lots of deaths in the family + death of a friend. some relationships were fractured and im grieving those as well.

Reason #3 is started full time library job in november 🎉 its wonderful and its exhausting and im still finding my rythm after years of being chronically un(der)employed and/or in college, but hopefully once life settles down more ill have more and more time to spend on art and writing

Havent vent posted in ages and it feels weird doing it on one of my art blogs so im going to end this with two of my recent(ish) pieces on grief, first made in onelab (not ai, android art app i make 80% of my digital art in) and second in midjourney

Thanks if u read all/most/some of that :)

Think i just needed to be like "man this sucks" so i can move on to "anyway! Art time >:)"

[beardedmrbean]

[Huey Zoomer anon]

You know I been thinking about the handling of abuse and dysfunctional family and how for some reason a lot of people just realizing the generational trauma…is there any millennials abuse survivors around? Were you taught to be narcissistic as fuck?

Me getting in social media: Man I hope I can find other people like me- why the fuck do most supposed abuse survivors have MY abuser narracism and victim complex?

Also people complain about how many villains these days have a sob story or a “redeemable” enough…actually I think a figure out

You see a lot of leftists are upper middle class people who grew up in a black and white society. They didn’t see the flaws of America until the 08 crash and going to college. Hence why they bitch about American imperialism

But when you a black person who learn their grandmother was a crackhead…and seeing generation after generation of single mother raising…

The left: You know that America did a lot of evil shit?!

Me: I was born on the anniversary of Martin Luther King Jr ASSASSINATION! And my elders hammer down the rights I was born with were the PRIVILEGES during their childhoods

Sorry set up, so imo a lot of leftists grew up in the Hollywood oversimplified views of history, especially WW2, its miracle that allies didn’t start killing each other after Hitler died

But anyways, I think a lot of writers was to show that many villains have legit grips…but that like many fractions in history

Germany was fucked over by the Treaty of Versailles hence why Hitler and the Nazis gain power. Many criminals organizations was created to the lack of support and resources government created

Didn’t we all learn that but mid teens…or did these modern writers only knew the PG versions of historical events because of their shitty colleges and schools.

Thank fucking god assassin creed and hetalia encourage to research history and society more than the coastal fucks (not you) who make more in a month than I do in a year

There's trauma and abuse in every generation, we all just process it differently, tail end Gen-X and millennials were the ones who managed to finally make getting help a bit more ok, we still had things like Prozac Nation but managed some big strides there, but we were also guinea pigs for treatment and coping styles as well as classification.

There's that and the internet has a think about making all that shit currency you can trade for validation points.

Also people complain about how many villains these days have a sob story or a “redeemable” enough…actually I think a figure out

That's not new, though people have gotten more aggressive about it lately.

Post on here years back 'the only good nazi is a ex nazi' that one started up a whole world of discourse from the 'I want to hold people responsible for life' crowd, they get mad when someone turns their life away from hate and then proceeds to get other people to walk away too.

Not sure why, instead of one less nazi there might be dozens less as a result of their actions, some people would rather go with violence I guess.

Look at the folks that called Daryl Davis a white supremacist.

Sorry set up, so imo a lot of leftists grew up in the Hollywood oversimplified views of history, especially WW2, its miracle that allies didn’t start killing each other after Hitler died

Stalin knew better, given how much of his stuff was lend/lease.

Didn’t we all learn that but mid teens…or did these modern writers only knew the PG versions of historical events because of their shitty colleges and schools. Thank fucking god assassin creed and hetalia encourage to research history and society more than the coastal fucks (not you) who make more in a month than I do in a year

gotta look round and find the good stuff, then get other people involved in it.

If you do things like YT music or Spotify and take the free option you'll sometimes get a advert that's just some bands song, the record companies pay for that so they can wear people down and try to get that song stuck in their heads no matter how bad it is.

The idea crosses over into a lot of media, if they can make something seem like something everyone is involved with peer pressure and the need to be included takes over.

There's so much psychology involved in marketing, it's nuts.

Gotta manage to grass roots the actual good stuff, or at least the stuff you like and would like to see more of, if there's money to be made off of it someone will make it.

[loliwrites]

hi loli! 

to say the vibes have been off lately would be an understatement, wouldn’t it? because there has been a lot of negativity, too much for a place that is supposed to be about finding an outlet for your creativity and people to share your interests.

i know it has been difficult, draining to be around here and face all the discourse cankering the fandom. 

because of all this negativity, i believe it is important to try and balance it out with some kindness. so here i am, doing a little check-up on you <3

so first, how are you, really?

everything you feel regarding what is happening is valid and you deserve to feel happy and safe around here. so please, make sure you take the time you need from posting, from sharing fics, even just from being on the platform. i want you to know it’s okay and i support whatever you decide, for whatever reason.

i also want you to know that you have your place here, as much as the rest of us. you’re loved and wanted and i can assure you the fandom is a far better place with you in it.

i hope you’re taking care of yourself outside of tumblr as well. please remember to stay hydrated and to eat something 🫶🏼

now i would like you to sit back and enjoy the perfect, quiet night in with joel <3

do not hesitate to reach out if you need to talk, i’m here for you! sending you all my love and so many hugs 🫂

anna 💗

oh my sweet hunni bun ❤️ thanks for sending this -- that moodboard is such a BIG vibe rn. much love and appreciation to you, and please know the same extends to you from me. the inbox & dms are always open for ya.

this lil corner of the internet is going through it lately. to be honest, i feel a little on the outskirts of the chaos (which isn't always a bad thing) but i see a lot of talented friends reaching the end of their wicks, and i get it. art is hard. art for art's sake is hard. and while not everyone is an artist, everyone is a fucking critic (marcel duchamp).

maybe if real life wasn't such a fucking disaster right now, i'd be a little more "in" on all the goings on here 😅

here's what i'll say -- you (general "you") have a right to protect your peace. and you should do so wholeheartedly and relentlessly. i hope you're protecting your peace, hunni bun. and to all the other hunni buns out there who may stumble upon this--

Protect. Your. Peace.

[pumpumdemsugah]

I’ve seen you post about the vagueness of ‘queerness’ in the past and tbh now I get it. This isn’t the only reason lately a lot of my friends who were queer have started dating men and it’s so interesting to me. Anyone can do what they like but as someone who has known I was gay since I was a kid—I cut my arm at 9, and when my friends mom hugged me to her chest and when her boobs pressed against my face?! Yeah that was the end of ‘straightness’ for me. Discovered a whole new world that day fr—and came out at 18, the idea of ever ending up with a man is a nightmare lol. Like sometimes I get these intrusive thoughts about men and honestly it makes me gag every time. For the most part I don’t even see them and that’s how I like it but a lot of my friends are like that and then bam, boyfriend. Granted these same people rebuke the lesbian title at every turn so maybe I should’ve seen it coming but it’s so weird to hear people go on and on about being gay and then come to find out they mean in an aesthetic way because ‘pussy is gross’ lol.

Lool how you knew you were gay

The problem with modern inclusivity is some of are just straight. Not ohh bi dating a man and considering how much easier it is to do that, it's going to happen but heteros that grew up on a social media that thought being straight is cringe and they aren't cringe and they think women are pretty so 🏳️‍🌈 when they actually aren't. The same thing goes for most American internet 'leftist'. Bruv you're just embarrassed of calling yourself a liberal because it's cringe

People don't want to admit that the current community is infested with heterosexual and hide behind are you saying they aren't bi? You think pum pum is off putting and the genital discourse has been a gift for these people. In 3 to 5 years minimum, many will look back and not want to admit that they encouraged straight people with entitlement issues to call them homophobic slurs because of " reclamation" and ran down anyone that rightfully clocked on.

[bossbotmgr]

Minor ramble under cut about browsing thru old posts. I was gonna put them in tags of a shorter post but its too long lol

If you can't tell I really love going thru sprees of finding blogs from 2010s. I didn't use Tumblr very much until 2017ish and although I wasnt into Toontown its oddly nostalgic seeing similar posts. In a way it was all heartwarming, bittersweet, kind of sad, a bit cringe inducing (old memes) but mostly positive.

Internet archival and history is a pretty big interest of mine, and I know its a joke to say "Wonder what historians will say about this in 100 years" but in a way you kind of are like a historian on the internet looking at these old posts (If that makes sense..) And putting together trends and even silly discourse.

Its no secret the internet and fanbase culture has really shifted within this decade. I don't know what the reason would be exactly (Probably a mixture of userbase aging and the crushing presence of things like capitalism and other oppressive forces) but even then, hostility is present among new fans and younger fans. Who I do feel sorry for they didn't experience things like goofy reblog chains or DeviantArt journal entries. But even then now, it feels like there isn't much of a space for many of us online. Not without becoming incredibly decentralized, which some people can't just quit certain platforms. (Like needing it for their job)

Getting off topic a bit- I thought about that when I was looking at those old "New to Toonblr <:D" introduction posts, and deactivated blogs long gone welcoming them. I know that theres been quite alot of discourse/bickering lately in certain areas. I've seen alot of pessimism among people I follow or are mutuals with. I also have had experiences with being harassed or being block evaded. I don't know what would neccessarily "fix" that issue, as discourse and bad apples will be in every fanbase. But I think theres a bit of "for myself" think. Sometimes it feels like people view each other as enemies O~O and I notice alot of cliques..

Anyways, just things I thought about. I don't want this to be a "old web good" post. Thats viewing the past with rose tinted glasses. But I think we should maybe examine our relationships with media and our interests and how we talk among each other to create a more fun space for everyone. At the end of the day we all like the same defunct mmo :p

[dogsliampaynedoesntinstagram]

I'm maybe a bit late to the party, but I do think there's been some important American-specific context missing from the larger conversation about the Taylor Swift and Matty Healy stuff, and the fan response to it. I'm not saying the context changes the larger discussion about what politics is and what people should be trying to do, but I think it does have explanatory value for what people are thinking about, what references they might have in their head.

First, I think there are two distinct issues that have been unfortunately blurred by the broader discourse, largely because of an accident of timing. Matty Healy first appeared at Taylor's concerts in Nashville, seemingly confirming the relationship that had been reported in the tabloids (because they'd also said he'd be there). At the same time, a lot of fans who had been disappointed in Taylor's lack of explicit statement about anti-LGBTQ legislation in several of the states on her tour created an expectation or hope for themselves that Taylor would say something in Nashville about the TN drag ban, because in the past she's centered her political statements as a citizen of Tennessee. And obviously, Taylor did not say anything, and so I think you have these two largely separate things - Matty Healy and her silence on these bills - being mixed into the same conversation in ways that aren't very productive. (Tbh I personally don't find celebrities speaking out on bills like this to be very politically useful, but I also think if Taylor felt that way she probably shouldn't have publicly said the phrase 'I promise to always advocate' for protections for LBGTQ people. Like, questions of political efficacy aside, I do think there's very valid space for fan disappointment.)

So, that said, I think some part of the fan backlash Taylor is receiving is about her silence on these bills, not fans wanting her to dump Matty Healy (and some people have been very good about separating these threads of argument, some people have been deliberately combining them into a larger statement, some people have just been blurring them completely). And while I don't really think yelling at celebrities on the internet to speak up about terrible legislation is effective politics at all, I do think I kind of see where it comes from, which is where the context comes in. To make an extremely complicated story much shorter, one of the early waves of the current anti-trans panic resulted in an anti-trans bill passed in North Carolina in 2016. For complicated and largely racial reasons, organizing political action in NC is extremely difficult (also in 2016, a UNC democratization researcher declared that NC technically couldn't be considered a democracy. it hasn't gotten much better, an abortion ban was passed there just last week after an elected representative who was elected as a Democrat explicitly on a platform of protecting abortion rights abruptly switched party affiliation last month and voted for the bill, giving Republicans a veto-proof majority - it's a wild and deeply unsettling story.) However, what did happen in the wake of the 2016 bill was a massive cultural backlash - concerts in the state were cancelled, TV and film projects were moved, businesses pulled out of the state, the NCAA refused to consider the state as a potential venue for the incredibly lucrative men's basketball tournament while the law was still on the books - and ultimately the worst parts of the law were repealed in 2017 in response. A lot of young Americans at that time experienced that as a major soft power/cultural rebuke that led to actual political change, and so I think calling on cultural figures with a lot of soft power like Taylor Swift to at least say something is an attempt, if clumsy (the economic harm was much more effective than the cultural rebuke), at recreating that moment, especially as more and worse bills are being passed with nothing like that 2016 consensus response. Like I said, I don't think it substantially changes the substantive points you've been making about what is and isn't politics, but I do think it's useful for understanding the reference points young Americans may be holding in their heads (consciously or unconsciously).

Thanks for this ask anon - I found your thoughts and perspective really interesting.

You made me realise that I haven't been very curious about the calls from fans for Taylor Swift to speak about politics. It's a response to the world that combines putting a lot of emphasis on the political importance of speech acts and also really expressing desires to control what other people do - both of which I find very annoying. But this is a good reminder that even (or maybe especially) things that annoying to me are worth being curious about.

I had known a little bit about the laws in North Carolina and the backlash, but I hadn't realised that this was the lesson that at least some people had taken from it.

America is a terrifying place to be right now and the question of how to fight is a live and active one. And what really matters is that people are fighting collectively. People learn so much from trying to change the world alongside other people - and the idea that we're stronger together than we are alone is true of developing strategies as well as anything else.

I also totally get having an emotional reaction and a desire for something from the celebrities you follow. If you check my posts in the lead up to the Irish repeal referendum, or the 2019 British election - I really wanted 1D members to say 'Vote Repeal' and 'choose socialism over barbarism'. That feeling is a really normal part of being a fan and was there even though that I learned who Harry Styles was as I learned that we had nothing in common politically.

But the reason I write this is because I think it's so important that people don't let that feeling drive their political analysis (and what you say suggests that it might be).

I had an anon that said that the reason that they wanted a 1D member to speak out is that the 1D members voice was so much more powerful theirs. And that's what worries me - that people are ignoring the potential of building collective power - and instead hoping that someone who already has power will make change. And there's just no evidence that that works (quite the opposite).

There was lots of useful celebrity contributions to the American Civil Rights Movement of the 50s, 60s, and 70s. But it was fundamentally the same contribution that hundreds of thousands of people played across the US. Celebrities often had more money, and could sometimes reach particular audiences and create iconic issues. I'd never deny the impact that Aretha Franklin, or Muhammad Ali, or Tommie Smith and John Carlos. But there was work to be done in every single city and town across the US - and people did it. The actions those people took only had power within the context of hte wider movement they were connected to.

I do think it's worth at this moment looking at history and seeing how people have resisted in the past and what they've managed to do. And I think that shows how much it takes to change, and that any one person's voice can only be a tiny part of something bigger, even if they have a massive amplification system.

If I was going to sum up what I'm trying to say - there's nothing wrong with wanting Taylor to say something, but to think that whether or not Taylor says anything is politically important to the cause - is denying your own power.

[cyarskj52]

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MR. KEKE PALMER'S BOYFRIENDUPDATED JULY 17, 2023

Keke Palmer’s Boyfriend Doesn’t Know His Place

Keke Palmer and Darius Jackson. Photo: Rebecca Sapp/Getty Image

Is this how a second gentleman should be acting? After a video surfaced of Usher serenading Keke Palmer at his Las Vegas show on July 5, her boyfriend Darius Jackson decided to share his opinion on the family matriarch’s dress. “It’s the outfit tho.. You a mom,” he wrote on the Elon Musk app. Mr. Keke Palmer’s Boyfriend was saying her outfit — a black sheer, long-sleeved polka-dot dress with a bodysuit peeking out underneath — was unfit for a mother to wear in public. According to his misogynist logic, moms shouldn’t have fun at concerts in cute little black dresses because that is a threat to the traditional family. “We live in a generation where a man of the family doesn’t want the wife & mother to his kids to showcase booty cheeks to please others & he gets told how much of a hater he is,” he added in his follow-up tweet. Mind you, he and Keke are decidedly not married. The couple have been dating since 2021, and their first child was born in February of this year. “This is my family & my representation,” he kept going, for some reason. “I have standards & morals to what I believe. I rest my case.” He has since deleted his profile and scrubbed photos of him and Palmer from Instagram.

Twitter, however, kept up the fight. The internet dug up Jackson’s old tweets, which include seemingly defending police brutalityand liking a post that calls Tracee Ellis Ross a “female loser” for posting a topless picture of herself at 50 years old. The petit-incel vibes combined with conservative ideas about family and policing isn’t going to get a lot of Palmer fans on his side. The two people at the center of Jackson’s ire appear unbothered through it all. Palmer posted a picture in the allegedly offensive outfit on Instagram with the caption, “I wish I had taken more pictures but we were running late!” Meanwhile, Usher liked a tweetwhere a user understood Keke’s behavior, saying, “It’s Usher like cmon now. I could see if it was Jacquees,” where Jacquees replied, “😂😂 Leave me out of it.”

Despite Jackson’s departure from the internet, Palmer is rightfully not letting his misogynistic words go. She’s now selling merch reminding moms that they can be hot as well as an empowered parent. “One thing is certain and one thing is true, IM A MOTHA, through and through! ‘IM A MOTHA’ and ‘Stevie to the bullshit’ shirts available NOW!” captioned Palmer on Instagram with a video where she sang to her baby. “To all my mom’s out there, how did your baby change you?? Mine empowered me! On such another level, my perspective changed because when my baby is good I’m GREAT! Look at that face! Gratitude galore.” Palmer is even alluding to the baby daddy drama in her live shows. At Broccoli City Fest Sunday, Palmer changed the lyrics of “Bossy” to reflect her mother status. “Lil booties matter, my son gave me some ass/ I’m my own boss and I got my own cash/ I don’t need a *****, only thing I need’s a bag.” A couple days ago, Jackson was just Palmer’s low-key man; now he’s generating enough online discourse to last for weeks. Embarrassing.https://www.instagram.com/p/CuVoiM5r_iF/embed/captioned/?cr=1&v=14&wp=744&rd=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vulture.com&rp=%2F2023%2F07%2Fkeke-palmer-boyfriend-usher.html#%7B%22ci%22%3A0%2C%22os%22%3A17773%7D

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[undercat-overdog]

(In response to this post.)

Thank you so much for such a thoughtful, interesting response; I’m so sorry for the late reply! I have been busy but more than that, this really made me think and… sorry, my thoughts aren’t exactly straight: not inchoate, but not well-formed. They’re also long, so:

Also, I do want to say at the beginning that while I’m talking about authors and readers (because that’s what I know), I want to acknowledge that there are many other ways of creating fanworks; I think that can be eclipsed by all of fandom’s fic talk? Which I might be doing right here, so =/

Also also, the catalyzing reason I wrote the original post wasn’t actually comment discourse or thinking about feedback on a fic itself - I am so incredibly blessed with wonderful commenters thank youuuu <3 - but a situation that hit squarely at my personal writing insecurities. I ended up taking a story down because I felt those insecurities so strongly. (Well, I put it in a hidden collection, not deleted, and to be clear, those are my feelings that no one else is responsible for.)

Which is to say, while I talked mostly about comment in the original posts, since that’s what the broader discussion focuses on, it goes beyond comments. What I really was trying to get at was this: I often feel that people don’t see that there’s a person behind the ao3 author’s name and that person’s not recognized. Fic is not something that exists in isolation.

(One thing that surprised me was how much relief I felt hiding my fic, the easing of a burden. I feel bad because I feel like I’ve taken something away from readers, but also relieved because I no longer feel that story has to perform; it’s ok if it’s ignored. Its existence no longer has to be acknowledged because functionally it doesn’t exist on ao3 at the moment.)

But onto comments!

Comments are discussed as a sort of payment for services rendered, and readers say “if we keep paying then we’ll keep getting fic! If we stop paying we’ll stop getting fic!”

Hmm, while so I think comment discourse often is talked about in terms of an exchange, even payment, I’m not sure the origination of that comes from readers (well, readers who don’t write; most authors are readers too), since I’ve seen a lot of it from authors, especially ones who’ve been in fandom a long while and have seen changes over time.

And… I don’t think the transactional model is wrong or bad, as long as it’s not just that. Like, it’s objectively true for many creators! If you notice you get more feedback writing one blorbo than your other, all else being equal you’re more likely to write the first. I am blessed with comments, but if I weren’t, I don’t know if I’d keep writing (I might, but idk.) (There’s also just the natural ebb and flow of creativity and falling in and out of hobbies.)

But there’s a couple things that bugs me about that way of talking about commenting:

First is that I really hate talking about commenting as “payment for content.” Specifically that vocabulary: I think it’s important to not view fanworks in economic terms.

Secondly, that way of talking about commenting when it naturally segues into talking about why readers don’t comment and anxiety comes up. And I don’t mean to downplay that at all! Reader anxiety is very real and I’m glad it’s talked about. But what I never see talked about is the anxiety that at least some (and I suspect most though definitely not all) authors themselves feel about sharing a story. Sometimes it can be really hard push that “post” button. (It certainly was for me at first, but I have pretty strong internet social anxiety.) Author anxiety is a thing too!

And (some? most?) authors do not want payment. They are writing (or whatever creative endeavor) for the perfectly normal reason that they have something to say - even if they may say “oh no it’s just that I like the ship” there was still SOMETHING about the ship that drew them to it that they want to express. They put their fic out into the world to start a conversation, not for payment. So when people read but say nothing at all they are in a sense standing there listening to you and then walking away.

Yes, fic as conversation!!! Well, I can’t speak for every author, or anyone but myself and a couple people I’ve talked to about this, but I personally think of it that way, a way of communication, a way of sharing thoughts about a canon I’ve loved since I was young and that occupies much of my brain. Also smut.

The conversation can extend beyond comments too - I have been so fortunate to have some wonderful, thoughtful anon asks about stories or fandom thoughts more generally and they’re some of my favorite things to receive; I hope I’ve made them pleased in return. And art, omg aiiii <3333

This would, I think, also explain why certain types of interaction are often complained about - kudos or simple “I liked it” is not participating in a conversation or acknowledging anything about the very important FEELING or THEME or what have you that the author wanted to express

There’s nothing more wonderful than someone who gets what you wanted to say, to share! Though I very much love all comments dearly. A kudos, an “I liked it” can mean a lot.

share your thoughts - which is very vulnerable even when your thoughts are distorted behind a fictional story

Yeah, one thing that I think is talked about but which always bears repeating is how much some creators (authors and others) use creative works to process their own self and identity, or work through things that are personal to them, or put their selves into a character. I don’t feel that way personally, so I can’t truly speak to it, but I do want to acknowledge it.

And people want to read your work even if you’ve decided to limit who the conversation is with which is a weird boundary violation on their part.

Hmm, I’m not quite sure what you mean by this? I suspect I was unclear originally; I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wanting to read anything and to be sad if something you either wanted to read or had read before is taken down or vanishes (such as with old archives lost to the internet). I have been very sad at that! What I don’t think is that anyone has the right to demand that authors act in a way that keeps their stories available. (I’ve primarily seen this on reddit, which is interesting in that various subreddits are a place in which multiple fanfic cultures come together.)

(There are definitely times when trying to push a conversation are boundary violations, however I think those aren’t tied to the creator-reader/viewer dynamic per se, but bad social behavior by individuals (including harassment, which can absolutely happen in comment sections). I don’t think wanting to read a fic is that at all, nor being sad that something you loved and that meant a lot to you disappeared - but sending angry messages when the author takes a fic down is.)

So all the work you do to make a conversation happen and share your thoughts - which is very vulnerable even when your thoughts are distorted behind a fictional story - goes unacknowledged and when you say “please acknowledge my desire for conversation” readers say “but that’s too HARD. we want you to talk to us while we maybe nod at you at best.”

Yeah, I think this is what it comes down to. (At least for me! I know not all creators feel the same way.) There’s a vulnerability in sharing. And while I don’t want people to comment if they don’t have the time or don’t feel like they have something to say or are anxious or who just don’t want to comment - I hardly comment on everything I enjoy (also I read very little at the moment). But when talking about how commenting can be hard, acknowledge the author too! It’s hard for many of us! For me and others I know, sharing a fic is far harder than commenting.

I really, really hope that doesn’t come across as shaming or guilt-tripping because it’s not my intention. Just, authors have anxiety too lol

Apologies again for not being clear! Some of my thoughts are conflicting, and some of those thoughts definitely conflict with some of my feelings, and I’m not sure entirely how to articulate them.

@undercat-overdog

Keep reading

[hunxi-after-hours]

Hunxi ive a question please. Re: your twt book vaguing post tags-using diacritcs for transliterated Chinese names is bad. i fully accept that as you said its Othering and for sure we need to not do that. But like for they help give an idea of pronunciation so im wondering if theres something else i should be doing for that now....like how exactly should i work out how things should sound instead??

hey anon! sorry, should clarify — I'm not against the use of diacritics to denote pronunciation of Mandarin characters at all! I was specifically whinging about the use of diacritics for a Chinese name in an English novel that never otherwise 1) brought up any other Chinese names or 2) used diacritics or any other foreign language markers/scripts elsewhere in the (checks notes) 300+ pages despite its ostensibly "international" scope (I mean there was some French in there but there are so many English loanwords from French that a ç really doesn't count okay)

my particular beef with the use of diacritics to denote names in Chinese emerges wholly from the context I usually see it in: predominantly, a text where the language surrounding the transliterated diacritics is uncritically in English. it's like. So why are you putting diacritics on the obviously Chinese name? What authenticity do you think it lends you? Who are you performing it for? Not a native Chinese speaker, that's for sure — for starters, most native Chinese speakers don't bother with diacritics in script (in fact, much of fan/internet culture deliberately leans on the ambiguity of meaning by using homophonously interchangeable words, or the pinyin without any sort of identifying markers beyond just context). secondly, diacritics are plain annoying to type, so most bilingual speakers I've seen who want to denote tone just place a number after the pinyin, like 妈 ma1 麻 ma2 马 ma3 骂 ma4

and heck, I spent a few years in the Anglophone side of Sinology, and it's not even academic standard to use diacritics when rendering the pinyin of relevant Chinese characters, so like. what is a dark academia fantasy novel that otherwise never brings up anything remotely Chinese trying to prove with its usage of diacritics, beyond accidentally but undeniably participating in the ongoing practice of othering Chinese language, culture, and bodies?

because I feel like it must be said, I have nothing against AO3's tagging system that occasionally uses diacritics in character names/tags on Chinese-language fandoms. those diacritics are there and remain there for reasons beyond what I'm complaining about in this post, including but not limited to site infrastructure and fandom linguistic drift. this post is NOT about that particular corner of AO3 discourse, and please don't take it as such

I guess I've been thinking a lot lately about what it means to engage with Chinese as a language and Chinese-ness as a nebulous element in English-language fiction and fanwork. for example, we can look at fandom's increasing vocabulary of untranslated, transliterated Chinese terms. people often leave honorifics like 宗主 zongzhu / sect leader or 公子 gongzi / young master untranslated now, which was most certainly not the case, hm, two years ago. heck, I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that I had a direct hand in increasing the proliferation of casual untranslated/transliterated Chinese in Anglophone fandom. at the same time, I do wonder about the motives of style and when/why certain terms are chosen to remain untranslated. for me, it's always been a matter of language and rhythm — again, I watch all of these shows in Chinese with Chinese subs, so quite frankly I don't even know what an English translation should sound like until I scribble one out. the sounds and rhythms of the language are so fundamental to how I engage with these texts that I occasionally find myself writing fic or dialogue or even meta bilingually, to get the cadence and tone of what I'm trying to say right in my head, before I go back and re-translate those words, phrases, even entire sentences into English

this is not to say that the rhythms and sounds of voice and language are unimportant to the viewer who isn't fluent in Chinese — they certainly are, which is precisely why watching these shows can be such a powerful language-learning supplement. but the fact remains that a Chinese-fluent viewer engages with the linguistic fabric of these texts in a different manner than a non-fluent viewer. this isn't a flex, or judgment, or a bid for superiority — merely a critical acknowledgement of a difference in perspectives

where it gets really interesting and thorny, though, is the production of non-Chinese fanwork for a Chinese text. I'm thinking primarily of the points brought up in this phenomenally thoughtful meta on chinoiserie and international MXTX fan production that I'll never forgive for beating me to the punch of using chinoiserie as a theoretical framework for engaging with contemporary Chinese media BUT I'm getting distracted. these are the lines that feel particularly relevant:

... as we talk about the structure of english-language fandom, what does it mean to create chinese cultural products without chinese people?

as white people take ownership over their versions of stories, do we lose something? what narratives about engagement with cnovels might exist outside of the form of classic fandom?

and of course, the line that haunts my most liminal, linguistically-porous hours:

at what point does mxtx fic cease to be chinese?

neither I nor the author of this meta intend for our posts to be call-outs for Anglophone fandom, but both of us are definitely interested in how and why Anglophone creators engage with the essentially Chinese elements of these texts. I think about the many months during which people asked me to come up with personal names, courtesy names, titles, alternate names for at least half the cast of CQL. it was, I concede, fun at first — like a scavenger hunt, a logic puzzle, and trivia rolled into one. how could I leverage my proficiency in language and paltry knowledge of literature (and somewhat better knowledge of literary databases on the internet) to scheme my way into a richly-textured name based on a specific set of circumstances laid down by an anonymous ask in my inbox? but as time went on, the whole process felt more tedious and exploitative than anything, so I stopped doing it. even now, I still take emotional/psychic damage from whenever someone, even a friend, especially a friend, asks me to help them with Chinese naming. if your fanfiction is written in English, and is intended for an English-speaking audience, what does it matter if this title or courtesy name or personal name has an actual, translated equivalent in Chinese? how and why has this name-based ornamentalism become the unspoken standard for a nebulous kind of 'authenticity' in Anglophone fanfiction?

perhaps it is because language, with our electronic dictionaries and language-learning apps and the ever-present Google Translate, often ends up becoming the most accessible aspect of Chineseness — easier to look up a word or several than it is to try and track down a Real Live Chinese Person who can answer questions about cultural norms and etiquettes, histories and values. at the same time, when a writer’s research begins and ends at this superficial level, I can’t help but read it as tokenization, as ornamentalism, a way of telegraphing an authenticity that nevertheless feels cheap and flimsy in my hands

and that’s another crucial aspect of it — in my hands. I, as a person who operates at the particular nexus of privileges, experiences, and expertise that I do, have particular standards. as a reader, I cannot be mollified or hoodwinked by a cursory paragraph generalizing the principles of “Eastern thought” (I’m back to vagueing this book again), because I know this shit and I absolutely will be the reader to point out the fact that this erases the plethora and diversity of the manifold schools of Chinese thought alone, which doesn’t even get into Japanese philosophy or the mind-bending acrobatics of Buddhist reception, and this paragraph leaned on the most basic, essentialized, Orientalized understanding of a singular principle of something that one might be able to identify as Daoism, if all one knew about Daoism was the yin-yang symbol. what I’m TRYING to say in this already overlong post is that I recognize that I am a single, subjective person with extremely personal preferences, and I hardly believe that my preferences should be generalized outwards into fandom norms or cultural practices. I mean, it’d be neat if they were, but I don’t pretend I’m infallible enough for that to occur unproblematically. I just think that we could all stand to think about the complex crosscurrents of modernity and history, (neo)imperialism and (post/de)colonialism, language and engagement, fandom and fan production, ornamentalism and Orientalism

I've wandered very, very far afield from where this post started, which was vagueing a book that has little to nothing to do with cnovel/cdrama fandom, but tl;dr anon there's absolutely nothing wrong with diacritics in language learning, I just get real touchy when I suspect the usage of diacritics as an exoticized linguistic ornament in Anglophone texts