#because the duffers suck shit

[imsodishy]

I have such a scene in my head and nothing to do with it so...

Post Starcourt Billy is a mess, and one night when he’s drunk Max's is like, "He absolutely cannot come home like this. It will go very very badly." and she’s really done with letting bad things happen to Billy.

And the only person available for her to turn to for help at that particular moment is Nancy.

And Nancy doesn't really want a drunk Billy Hargrove in her house, but he did basically fucking die for them, and Max is not above banging that drum very loudly. So yes, fine, he can sleep it off on their couch.

But they're not that quiet sneaking him in and they wake her mom up. Karen is, of course, shitting a fucking brick. Because there's her dirty little secret standing (swaying) in the middle of her perfect suburban life, picking through their music collection.

Nancy tries to smooth it over (she is also not above leaning on the 'almost died' angle, though Karen of course thinks it was in the mall fire). Karen says, "I just don't think it's a good idea."

Billy snorts, asks, "Why, is your husband home?" and drops the needle on Does Your Mother Know by ABBA.

[timetobeaghost]

The Noah hate mob is so much worse than I thought. Finally saw the story pic going through someone's blog. Cluelessly I had kinda figured a "sticker" is something you can add to your pic, like a filter. And I thought he might have made a dumb sexy pose maybe with a hot dude and put "zionism is sexy" on it. I thought he might have been somewhat douchy and insensitive, because that seemed IC to me, making a dumb post in a serious situation.

But no. He is making a selfie with a friend who seems to be involved in anti-antisemitism activism and wears a (literal, yeah everyone but me knows what a sticker is, I guess) "Hamas is ISIS" sticker, which is a very important message (because people did not use to like islamists cutting off people's heads and raping girls back when it wasn't happening in Israel, maybe they could remember that feeling) and holding Stickers in her hand that apparently read "Zionism is sexy", which is meant to proudly support Israel and Israeli jews, which is healthy and understandable considering it is a reaction to a horrible terror attack on Israel and to a reminder that its very existence in in danger. No, Zionism does NOT mean war! Zionism does NOT mean ethnic cleansing. To say this is antisemitic trash. Jews wanting the tiniest bit of land to live in peace and thrive is the farthest thing from evil. Do you know how many Jews used to live in the Middle East. Do you know where their offspring is now? ISRAEL. And nowhere else because they were ethnically cleansed out of everywhere else.

And no Israel is not perfect, radical settlers and a right wing government supporting them and all that. That needs to be solved. That in no way means Israel's existence and with that Zionism is evil.

Now still those ZiS stickers could be criticized as dumb, I guess. As flippant in a serious matter, but any hate boner can only be explained by antisemitism, and Noah really didn't do shit to deserve anything. And then he was told he should be put in a blender by Hamas. Hamas being a terror organization who really does specialize in slaughtering jews in creative ways. For context.

The only proper reaction is 💯 support for Noah!

If you are part of a hate mob you are those people, oh they had good reasons for their spontaneous anger, I am told. Spoiler alert: history has already decided you suck. And I can guarantee you the Duffer brothers deepest revulsion. No one dreams of appeasing you people! Leave ST fandom and enjoy your jihadism fandom, if that's where your priorities lie.

If you are on the side of: "Yes I know he kinda deserves criticism, but lets not overdo it. Bullying is not nice either", congratulations for being human, but you are the majority Germans in the mid 1930s and you can do better.

Because someone asked me what I say to a 6-year -old Palestinian being murdered in the US, I say this is utterly VILE. It was a crazy, violent murderer's reaction to the terror attack and it is endlessly tragic that this happened. It was not a reaction to solidarity with Israel's people. The pos was reacting to the actual event. Peaceful, loving support for the victims is the antitheses to that. I wanna ask back what you think of hundreds of children being brutally murdered or kidnapped in Israel on October 7th. Can we agree that this shit is utterly vile as well? Can we agree THOSE HOSTAGES NEED TO BE BROUGHT HOME? Btw?

[chirpsythismorning]

Why I Don’t Experience Byler Doubt

It’s simple. One of the most essential techniques in storytelling: Show, don’t tell.

Show, don't tell is a technique that allows the audience to experience the story through actions, words, subtext, thoughts, senses, and feelings rather than exclusively through the creators' exposition, summarization, and description.

Even more importantly (assuming we want to enjoy ourselves bc this is supposed to be high quality entertainment), it adds drama. Rather than telling viewers what's happening, a filmmaker will use this technique to show drama unfold. 'Telling' is factual and avoids detail; while 'showing,' is detailed and places the human subject at the centre of the drama.

This technique is literally playing out in the narrative when it comes to Mike’s inability to tell El he loves her (or even simply write love Mike in his letters), which he never would have had to tell her (spell out) in the first place, if he had just shown her that he loved her.

It’s no fun having to spoon feed your audience. Instead, it's much more enjoyable for the storyteller to present the truth in the details, even sometimes contradicting very basic assumptions that are being outright told. Hence why, for example, when the Duffers were asked about the Vecna reveal, Ross used the opportunity to go on a mini tangent: 'the best twists are ones that you go, “Oh, I should have seen that coming.” As opposed to the twists that go, “Oh, well that just came out of nowhere.” So, “Oh, I missed these clues along the way.” But you get nervous when you’re writing it because you go, “Well, to me it seems obvious--'.

In fact, Show, don't tell is what largely allows surprise revelations to hide in plain sight. Because obviously, if a writer just tells their audience everything that's happening while it's happening, we would always see what's coming next.

And so the problem I have with downplaying or even completely refusing to acknowledge the importance of Show, don't tell, in the case of Stranger Things especially, is that, in order to comfortably subscribe to what is being told, I have to ignore what is being shown.

We see this play out all the time on Reddit in particular, which if I'm being honest is the only platform at this point that treats mere speculation about Will and Mike's relationship as if it is the end of the world. On the rare occasion the mods don't remove a byler related post, the post is either already negative towards byler or the comments are filled with fury over the poster simply thinking critically by speculating about byler. Even if you manage to get a fan over there in the comments to consider certain evidence pointing towards byler as incriminating, they'll still manage to end it by downplaying the Duffers and their abilities, because 'They're not that smart!'...

They'll ask for evidence, be presented with it, only to insist that it's all reaching because details mean nothing and everything about the show is actually just surface level, ie. it's not that deep.

Without even realizing it, they're low-key admitting that going the byler route would be smart, and yet here they are tirelessly defending a show that, according to them, has shit writers and no deeper purpose. All this does is prove that they are hoping this is the case. Because even despite being presented with strong evidence that the show might very well be epic, they would rather reject it altogether.

They would rather have one of their favorite shows suck and defend it religiously, then consider the possibility that it's good and gay...

Don't get me wrong, there are definitely fans on reddit that don't hate byler. I imagine out of the million in that sub, there's a silent majority that would be open to it. Keep in mind, most fans still active at this point in hiatus are hardcore fans, and so they're obviously opinionated, that goes for everyone on most platforms rn. And yet, I know there are very likely casual fans who are popping in there every now and then, the same people in the majority when after s4 dropped, saw that monologue and said What the actual fuck was that?

There’s a reason no other couple on the show has needed to hear the words I love you to believe it. Well, besides Steve and Nancy…

Because SHOW, DON'T TELL. That's why!

So, what do I mean when I say that Show, don't tell is why I no longer have byler doubt?

It's actually pretty ironic, but basically the moment Mike told El he loved her, that's the moment they showed us that he didn't.

I mean, for starters, how does one go about filming a romantic love confession? Because if we're being entirely serious right now, they made just about every artistic and creative choice possible to go against what a romantic love confession should look like to feel satisfying.

I mean, you'd probably want the atmosphere to be intimate, right? Make the audience feel like these two are the only two people in the room (world) for this moment?

Well, that's not the case for Mike and El, nor is it the case for literally any of their scenes in s4 (arguably a lot of their scenes in the series; Will the wise drawing in El's room, I'm looking at you). Almost all of the scenes with them together in s4 had Will in the background, often times in the literal frame between them. That is NOT how you film scenes for a romantic pairing that you want the audience to root for, from beginning to end.

You guys gotta understand, rewatch value is one of the most important aspects to this story for the Duffers. When talking about the prospects of s5, they mentioned that they rewatched all the Lord of the Rings, saying how important it was, despite what some fans might say about the ending being too long, or this or that, bc to them, it was necessary to watch it all, and to rewatch it and rewatch it, in order to appreciate the entire story as a whole, aka the way it was intended.

If you're a serious about Mike and El as a romantic pairing, but because of the way the show has set up their relationship over the seasons, you can't sit down and enjoy more than a quarter of each season bc they're either separated, broken up, or on the rare occasion they are together and happy, they're accompanied by a kicked puppy in every shot, maybe all of that's for a reason.

And that applies to the scene in Surfer Boy more than any other scene in the show, a scene that is supposed to be Mike's monologue to El... You mean a scene that directly parallels Mike's monologue to Will in s2?

When planning the end of s4, do we think the Duffers just decided they wanted this intimate moment between Mike and El to have Will in the frame behind Mike (visually piggybacking off of him, in an episode titled The Piggyback...) in almost every shot, including when he said I love you for the first time, for no reason at all? Or is it possible there was a reason for it? Just like there's been a greater reason for everything?

Like bro, I'm sorry, but even if what's being told in that scene is relevant, all of it still reads as either a lie, a partial lie, a lie of omission or a platonic truth hiding behind romantic phrasing: I don't know how to live without you = platonic (trauma bond), whereas I can't live without you/I don't want to live without you = romantic. The later is out of desire/want, the former is out of fear of the unknown.

The entire scene the lighting is blinking rapidly. And so the vibe they're going for here is uncertainty, which is quite odd for a love confession that's supposed to feel certain? Then we have El seeing all red the entire time. She's literally choking, hearing Mike struggle to muster up anything that could help her pull through, only to overhear Will calling Mike the heart, followed by Mike finally saying I love you????

And I guess according to the Duffers, nothing says true love like a love confession ending abruptly by a two day time jump...

Oh and how about, instead of them taking the time at the end of the season for El and Mike to have a private moment, where they could finally address their love for one another, let’s have them barely on speaking terms, and the one time they do talk, let’s have it be offscreen and mentioned in a private moment between Will and Mike, who in contrast to Mike and El, we're going to prioritize having a scene with them alone together at the end of this season...

In the last minutes, let’s have El look at Mike and Will, only to avoid them with visible annoyance. And THEN let’s show Mike visibly defeated by El's annoyance, instead prioritizing reassuring Will, aka his friend with whom he shares an I didn’t say it/ You didn’t have to bond...

I mean? Are we just not going to talk about it? The fact that I didn't say it/You didn't have to could pass off as a literal synonym for Show, don't tell...

It just kills me that even with all of that, the Duffers were like, You know what? Fuck it. Let's show them all the endgame couples lined up next to each other, with Will and Mike in the middle and El standing on her own in front of them. If by now they still refuse to consider it, after everything, this ending probably wont convince them anyways, but it makes for great rewatch value...

Seriously, if you're subscribing fully to the belief that what is being told is the whole truth and nothing but the truth (so help you god), then you're having to ignore all of that. And I can't ignore all of that, I just can't. Which makes it impossible for me to experience doubt anymore.

[rogueddie]

So Noah is openly being a zionist online... AGAIN. I'm seeing a lot of people wanting to leave the fandom- which I support, if you can drop this then you should. But if you're like me and it's not that simple, here are a couple rough tips that might help;

Pro-tip; instead of paying for Netflix and helping support genocide and the zionists in the cast/crew, cancel your subscription and send that money to charities that are bringing aid and resources into Gaza!

Pro-tip 2; buy fan content and nothing liscenced! Fan works are often better quality than the show- from drawings, to writing, to pins... it's worth the money and you aren't sending money to people openly supporting genocide and the murder of children!

Pro-tip 3; if you are going to continue taking part in fandom, like myself, do not do so in silence. Palestinians are being murdered and we can't pretend that it isn't happening simply because we have hyperfixations that we can't get rid of.

Pro-tip 4; join boycotts! Not only the monetary boycott of Netflix and Stranger Things, but- at least- the three main boycotts; McDonalds, Disney+ and Starbucks! There are many others, from Puma to Barclays to Booking.com to Pizza Hut to Burger King... None of these things are necessities and you can easily go without! Other options are probably cheaper and better quality too! It's a win-win!

Pro-tip 5; Go to protests if you can! Make your voice heard not only online but in person too! We have strength in numbers and we cannot lose the momentum we've barely started to build! Take direct action!

P.S. biggest fuck you to Noah Schnapp but also; Ross Duffer, Shawn Levy and Brett Gelman can suck the shit right out my ass <3

[stevesbipanic]

Billy wasn't FROM small town Indiana though. He was from California, where they have open minds. Dacre said Billy WASN'T racist, despite what the Duffers wanted, and Dacre is the one who pushed to have a blatant slur removed from the script because he refused to say the word the writers wanted used.

LMAO Cute how you think you know anything about me, and how you think you can goad me into revealing who I am.

You're going to have to work a lot harder than that to get under my skin. I'm right and I know I'm right. Go keep sucking that cultist Jason Carver's dick or whatever.

I'm sorry in what world do you think I like Jason Carver either??????? Man was also a piece of shit, not as bad as billy but was def a dickhead. Also cute how you think you're big and brave hiding behind an anon sweetheart, noone scared of you and you're little billy dicksucker opinions.

Billy was racist and wanted Lucas dead. He threw a CHILD against a wall and said "You're dead Sinclair" luckily Steve was there to take the beating from Billy but if billy had been able to follow through with the same beating on Lucas, Lucas would've died.

I've got plenty and plenty of followers and people that like my work and I don't need to hide behind a mask to talk about my opinions so run along and block me and stop wasting everyone's time with your whining just admit you'd say a racist slur if someone you thought was hot said it. You're not hot shit stop acting like it hun 😘.

[ymaohoh]

Hellcheer addition! (ignoring the 1 like thing as I just want to write about these two crazy kids) 1. Chrissy being single. 2. So I don't have just one, but the music from the soundtrack 'I wouldn't remember me either' which plays for them? It's a beaut! (bit of a cop-out answer this one, sorry). 3. The ship observed by other people (so alternative POV's - Max, Jason, Dustin etc.) 4. Has to be my own as we only got one damn episode. 5. In the woods, when Chrissy says 'me?' so cute and Eddie is just soft and silly. 6. When Eddie heads back to the trailer with Steve/Nancy/Robin in the Upside Down and there's just a missing 'oh shit this is where Chrissy died' moment I would have liked to see. 7. (god this is tough as there's loads) Eddie being really really into eating Chrissy out. 8. I've seen a lot of fics that take Jason's character maybe too far (though yeah, he was a lunatic in the show). I don't think he'd harm Chrissy. 9. The 'opposites attract' angle. They have no business being so perfect for one another - but they are (second option would be how hot they are as a couple). 10. That Eddie would have to step on Jason's toes pretty severely (thanks Joe) and it would be messy. Ideally Chrissy would end it before getting with Eddie. 11. Deffo canon, thanks, but yeah I need them to come back to life in season 5 for more... Time travel? Alternative universe? Come on, Duffer Brothers. 12. Baldur's Gate 3... I could see them both as Bard's but maybe Chrissy could be a Cleric. Chrissy's BFF is clearly Karlach and Lae'zel scares tf out of Eddie (someone write me a crossover with the whole party being there?) 13. Eddie's easier to write than Chrissy, I think. Some authors really NAIL Eddie. 14. I've not been drawn to another pairing from Stranger Things in the same way - but I do like Chrissy shipped basically with anyone ('cause she's pretty). 15. Chrissy. I'd give her a big hug and we'd hang out watching 80's flicks. My girl needs love and take out. 16. The only way I could see this playing out is if one of them tries being all stupid noble and self-sacrificing. Eddie might so Chrissy goes to college (if she wants to stay behind with him) and Chrissy might because she doesn't want him to get hurt by Jason etc. It wouldn't last. 17. I think so - both have vulnerable spots which everyone can relate to. I find myself very similar to Chrissy (especially at her age). 18. I didn't like Eddie leaving Wayne to find Chrissy's body, but I get that's a character choice and he was scared af. 19. Lots? (and I'm new to the fandom). More are incoming, sorry. 20. You know, I didn't get sucked in when I first watched season 4 but on a re-watch? Yeah. I have no control over my fixations and I re-watched when I was recovering from surgery so...plenty of time to go mad? 21. I'm an angst girl. Always have been (but the smut is HOT too).

(psss pass it on - what do ya'll think?)

Template by @aph-cb 

[liver-ology]

The Inevitably Divisive Nature of Billy Hargrove

I really understand where Billy antis are coming from. He’s terrible, objectively. But the one thing that’s not letting me dislike him is the scene when he’s flayed and he tells Karen Wheeler to stay away from him. There’s something genuine in him that knows he’s going to hurt someone and desperately doesn’t want to. So I see a path to redemption. A common argument against Billy is that if Dacre Montgomery wasn’t so attractive, people wouldn’t be looking so hard for a way to redeem him. This is undoubtedly true, but he played Billy with so much nuance that it’s impossible not to want to explore that. The character may have been racist and abusive, but he also breeds brainrot. How did he get that way? Why is he such a dick? Can he be saved? Should we want him to be? Every post I see about why people shouldn’t engage with Billy in fandom just digs him deeper into my mind, makes me ask more questions.

Pre-flaying, Billy is obviously racist and abusive and terrible. He has almost no redemptive qualities other than the fact that his abusive tendencies are clearly continuing a cycle perpetrated by Neil’s own abusive parenting, which isn’t much of a redemption. But putting characters in Situations reveals their inner nature, and a scared, caring guy comes out when he tries to resist the Mind Flayer. This leads me to believe that the hateful things he says and does aren’t really his beliefs but reflections of what he’s been taught. This thought is definitely influenced by Dacre being exceptionally hot in a wig, but the underlying point would still stand even if Billy looked like Gollum. But because he doesn’t, a problem I see a lot is the willingness to overlook everything bad Billy has done. People who believe Billy is redeemable tend not to even attempt to redeem him, choosing instead to make him an entirely different character that isn’t nearly as deeply entrenched in the fucked-up mindset that canon Billy inarguably is. I think this is where the issues arise for Billy antis, with the excusal of all the bad shit Billy’s done. I think this approach is lazy and boring, but finding fanworks of Billy where he actually sucks and goes through the long, difficult process of change and real redemption is damn near impossible. If you find one, drop the link.

The root of his divisiveness is within the conflict between the character as a whole and his script. In the script, Billy was originally supposed to say the n word, but Dacre Montgomery refused. The Duffers wrote him as a one-dimensional evil douchebag, but Dacre turned him into a real, nuanced character with more to him than Racist Abused Abuser That Gets Evil-ified. I think this is why he’s so divisive. Billy antis can’t look past the way he was written, and his supporters can’t let go of all his little nuances. Both sides have merit, and I think this is where it’s important to recognize that the Duffers do this all the time. Steve was originally supposed to be a Billy-esque character that was only there to be a douchebag plot device that died in the first season, and then Joe Keery played him so likeably and with so much more complexity than what was written that he stayed on for the whole run of the show. In subsequent seasons, Steve grew and changed and became a better person than he was in season 1. I think there was an avenue for this same thing to happen with Billy, had he been given the time. Some people don’t agree, and I see why. Either way, the takeaway from this is that everything wrong with anything ever is the fault of the Duffer Bros. Thank you for reading this egregiously long post, and have a lovely rest of your day.

[artaxlivs]

It’s Wednesday WIP Post time and I have admittedly spent most of my time in the last week on just one fic which is currently just under 10k and has three smut scenes already because Eddie (Like the rest of us) is feral as FUCK for Drummer Steve. There’s also some pining and emotional struggle because the fandom likes to suffer before they get to the good shit. The Duffer Brothers have broken us, for real. Anywho, here’s what I’m working on and there’s a mature but not explicit snippet from Drummer Steve under the line.

If you want to know about any of them, shoot me an ASK and I’ll shoot you back a snippet. 

Drummer Steve

There’s Something Wrong With Steve

18 Candles

Lock In/Winterhawk

Incubus Eddie

I got tagged by @eriquin - thanks for being motivating my friend!

DRUMMER STEVE SNIPPET:

Oh my god, he’s being manhandled. That is so fucking hot. Eddie shudders, another moan escaping without his permission.

Baring his neck for Steve feels totally natural and Steve immediately goes to trail kisses down it, biting and licking as he goes, dragging several sounds from Eddie that he didn’t even know he could make. He feels weightless and comes to the realization that his back against the door and Steve’s hands cupping his ass - oh my fucking god - are the only things keeping him from melting into the floor.

“Fuck, Eddie. The noises you make,” Steve says as he kisses and sucks and licks his way back to Eddie’s mouth, “So beautiful. Want you making them in my bed.”

“Yes, please, fuck, yes.” Eddie wants that, his brain feels broken with how much he wants that.

[willel]

I feel like the series centered Joyce's character around Hopper way too much in these last two seasons, and I've seen other fans also complaining about it. And honestly, I have to say that I tend to agree. Hopper's got himself a whole Russia prison arc, and while Joyce helped him, she was mostly just there to help Hopper's arc take place. I just feel like her character (and Winona's acting) is being wasted. And it honestly is a shame because Winona/Joyce is truly the reason why the serie got so popular in the first place, in S1-S2 her character focus was really great and I wish they did not change it in favor of Hopper's storyline.

It's a complicated problem. I don't think Hopper himself is the problem. Like, we did need a little more substance to him, especially after the mess of season 3. Yes, I'm someone who disliked the season 3 plot with him, it felt like a huge waste of time. (the entirety of season 3 did)

I think the bigger issue is while Joyce and Hopper's time was quite balanced in season 1 and 2, season 3 just completely tipped the scales in Hopper's direction. We started getting less and less of what Joyce was thinking and doing outside of Hopper's shenanigans.

But Joyce is not the only character who suffers from this. Jonathan arguably had it even worse. As each season progressed, more and more of his character was glazed over in favor of Nancy. This is not a knock against Nancy obviously, but you can see how the writers just... can't balance these relationships for some reason.

I'd argue Will also suffers from this. The boy has a lot going on but for two seasons now, it's being boiled down to his conflict with Mike. It's a great way to show how isolated and distant he's become but at the same time, he's got SO much more going on why does it always boil down to their romantic interests?

Mike has this two fold. I've written posts about it before but I have no idea what the hell the writers are doing with his character. I've read a few analysis on what the Duffers are doing with his writing, but it always boils down to, "This is because of El. This is because of Will." I just don't get it.

I know they aren't perfect, but I honestly feel like so far, Lucas and Max has made it out the most unscathed from the writers subpar balancing of character dynamics. They both have their own bad shit going on that culminated into something epic and beautiful. Arguably Lucas still gets a little lost in Max's story line, but I mean... I get WHY. Lucas wasn't about to be mangled beyond recognition with his soul sucked out so I get it.

All that said, I have .01% confidence the writers will fix this for season 5. It could happen. But I'm not getting my hopes up. This issue in the writing runs very deep and affects multiple characters and dynamics. I've been craving Byers platonic content for years, whether it's Joyce focused, Jonathan focused, Will focused, or El focused and my hopes have been dashed time and time again.

I got crumbs in season 4 and that's all I've had to tide me over for a long time. I'm just... so ready for everyone to look at the Byers and be like "Oh shit you guys are f*cked up huh? Lemmie help you." and give them some much needed attention.

I also understand I am completely and utterly biased so nothing I've said is an objective fact. I mean, other than how lopsided the writing has been, that is pretty objective.

[imsodishy]

Honestly the main reason stranger things ending so many characters' arcs with death sucks is that it's just fucking boring.

But especially because there's like a better than 50/50 chance at this point that they're going to undo it. They walked back El and Hopper immediately.

They couldn't even fully commit to killing Max cuz they knew they were going to walk it back again. Even though they admitted they had no actual plan for her character going forward, they just knew they couldn't kill her off without getting push back, so why bother committing?

They even brought back Brenner for no fucking reason. If they do bring back Eddie or Billy at this point... who gives a shit? It's weak sauce, they've completely drained it of any emotional impact.

They want the Drama, but they can't commit.

You get one (1) miraculous, inexplicable return from death. The duffers are waaaay over quota.

[emblazons]

i love hearing your takes on stranger things so i wanted to ask you your opinion on this video https://youtu.be/HZOppCkC5UM

....honestly I feel like I was like. MAYBE halfway on board with his premise until he said "what do these characters have to fight about" and "have all reached the best versions of themselves." That was when I knew he missed the emotional mark they were going for lol.

The fact that The Duffers were like "you were supposed to feel like you lost" (which my formerly fan-but-casual self CERTAINLY did after S4) where he says "he doesn't understand the conflict they could possibly have going into S5" is honestly kind of laughable imo. He IS right in saying tonal consistency across seasons is the The Duffers weakest point—they just have a story to tell and then stick stuff in there they enjoy look and vibe wise, to varying success and interest (though it does help it appeal to a lot of different demographics...which is probably what Netflix wants).

That said, his main "thesis" if you will is that "S5 will suck because they all end S4 hand in hand and I don't see how that could lead to drama," which...the points he's making are correct, but he's entirely missed the fact that the supposed "solutions" we got didn't fix anything in the actual narrative of the show. He says shit like "everyone found closure" when....clearly they have not, unless you're reading every emotional beat of the show on a surface level...which makes no sense, given how many CLEAR lies we were told even just in the last few episodes, what with Will to Mike, Mike to El, and even Jonathan to Nancy. Even the truth of Vecna's origins and goals and even why max isn't dead are hidden from us, which...somehow he thinks is "solved" now too?

Just him missing the fact that there were clearly lies told and things hidden by SEVERAL of our characters is already enough for me to second guess his take on everything, solely because he doesn't understand any of the characters (and even thinks they're interchangeable lmao). He thinks Joyce and Mike are the leaders for death, and thinks Nancy will end up with Steve for the whole of the season despite clearly blowing him off by the final shot...which is nonsensical if you're following emotional beats correctly? Like???

He...lets just say his take is so focused on "how to solve the narrative" that he loses sight of the character relationships themselves, which is like. 90% of what The Duffers value in their little "we're not game of thrones, we're not killing Mike" space. He makes halfway decent points for tone being inconsistent, but...misses the point of the narrative itself, which....is ironic, given he calls it a "story analysis" lol.

Idk. He is right about tone but entirely wrong about characters, and that makes me think he's not looked too hard at the narrative itself (which...fair. But don't make a video then lmao). Thanks for the ask!

[assignedpeanutallergyatbirth]

I’m not entirely sure how to articulate this thought, so bear with my internet. I would like to discuss two scenes in Stranger Things.

The first is S2 E1 starting 30:50, it’s a Wheeler dinner scene and Mike is told that he needs to put together two boxes worth of things to sell at the yard sale.

When he protests it goes like this:

Mike: “I’m fine with you giving away a couple, but the other ones just have way too much emotional value”

Karen: “Emotional value?”

Ted: “They’re hunks of plastic Michael.”

As the scene goes on, we find out that they’ve already taken away his Atari, and that the reason the Wheeler parents are doing all of this is because Mike has been acting out. This scene is particularly interesting because it falls between Lucas and Dusting finding out who Max is (plot relevant) and Nancy and Steve having dinner with Barb’s parents (plot relevant), but it doesn’t appear to have any plot relevance itself. Mike’s behavior isn’t mentioned again, and the only purpose this scene seems to serve is to show that Mike is struggling without El. Or to show that the Wheeler parents don’t understand him and do not try to.

The second scene, and the one that stands in sharp contrast in my mind, is in season 4. In S4 E9 1:52:19, right before the California crew shows up at the Wheeler house, Karen brings out a box of Nancy’s old things that she found in the attic. They are packing boxes to bring to the shelter at the school. Nancy finds her childhood stuffed animal Mr. Rabbit in one of these boxes, and Karen says “It’s okay if you want to save him, you know?” She acknowledges that this toy has emotional value to Nancy, while she scoffed at the concept that Mike’s possessions might be important to him.

Obviously the context of these two scenes is very different. Mike is being punished, while Nancy is donating voluntarily. In season 4, Hawkins has just experienced a massive earthquake and I’m sure Karen is very worried. She even expresses more worry towards Mike than we have ever seen when he arrives. But there is no reason why she should not have been this sympathetic in season 2. By that point Mike had already been through some shit, and even if she did not know the full extent, she knew that Will was presumed dead and was visited by the government officials who said that he was in great danger. But in season 2, she brushes it off as “We know you’ve had a hard year, Michael, but we’ve been patient.” She acknowledges his struggles and immediately dismissed them.

And I know that comparing scenes like this gets a little iffy, and that the Duffer brothers haven’t watched season 2 in a while — hence Will’s birthday. But the one thing that stays consistent is character writing (Mike’s character is consistently written, and I will probably have to word vomit a post about it at some point). So while I doubt that these two scenes are supposed to stand in contrast, the family dynamics that they highlight do stand out, and I feel that comparing them in this way is fair game.

Which gets me to the point of my argument. So often while discussing the Wheeler parents, we focus on the differences between Ted and Karen. But they both kind of suck. More significant, I would argue, is the difference in how the parents treat Mike and Nancy. Karen especially connects with Nancy more often than she does Mike. Any heart to heart conversations that we see her have are with Nancy. Her character building is done through connecting with Nancy, most especially the scenes after Nancy is fired from the newspaper. With Mike, the only support he seems to get from his mom comes in the form of 3 hugs: after they find “Will’s” body, after the Byers’s move, and after he comes back from California. If you read the novelization Lucas on the Line, Karen tries to help Mike in his (apparent and obvious) depression by inviting Lucas and Dustin over. She plans this whole themed sleepover, but then calls her son foul to Lucas, in front of Mike. She disregards anything that is important to Mike, yet still expects him to come to her with important things. However with Nancy, she makes more of an effort. She reaches out to Nancy first, after Nancy was fired from the newspaper. Karen has to knock on Nancy’s closed door in order to have this conversation. This is a decent amount of effort put in. Karen makes the first move, whereas with Mike, she relies on him to reach out, even going so far as to stop Ted from talking to him after “Will’s body is found because “He’ll come to us when he’s ready.”

And please note: I have nothing against Nancy. I love Nancy as a character. I just think that the way the Wheeler parents, especially Karen, treat Nancy and Mike is very different and worth noting.

[kurokoros]

I think s4 sucked.

While I liked Eddie because it reminded my husband of himself and me of my friends in high school (metalhead nerds), he played the role Steve had in Dustin's life. They didn't really elaborate on his presence in his life or why Dustin looked up to him, when the few times Eddie interacted with Dustin that they showed us from the first appearance he's mean and brash to them. Steve was suddenly pushed away to write in a character they could have die without everyone being upset they killed Steve (which, jokes on them because Eddie got a HUGE cult following).

The whole relationship talk between Steve and Nancy completely undid their growth and relationship from past seasons. It felt surreal for that conversation to happen. The whole Jonathon Nancy thing was weird too. Honestly, they should have just written a break up in and the season would have acted out the entire same way, it just felt like they forgot it?

Also, they have no clue how small towns work. I could get behind the lab, because there are many random ass military bases in the middle of nowhere in the Midwest. There are random research facilities. But you expect me to believe there's suddenly a MALL? not only a mall BUT A SECRET LAB WITH HUNDREDS OF WORKERS??? like yes suspend your disbelief but cmon

I definitely agree with your first two points.

and oh my god the mall thing just pisses me off soooooo much! like, I grew up in a small fucking town in Wisconsin, okay? population ~5K. my graduating class was under 120 people. you have to drive thirty minutes in any direction to find a shopping center bigger than the local family-owned grocery store or the dollar store that came eventually. we're talking small-small, everyone knows everyone, cows and cornfields smalls.

S1 basically nailed the small town vibe. the kids all knew who Steve was in episode one because of his reputation. some guy in town recognized a picture of Will as "Lonnie's kid". some random guy recognizes Nancy on sight after the whole spray-paint incident. Powell and Callahan know about Joyce's history of paranoia. etc.

the only questionable thing was the AV club radio because lmao with what funding??? but I'll give it a pass for being relatively inoffensive.

S2 was a good follow-through.

and then S3. what a fucking shit-show. first of all, no one would build a mall in the middle of nowhere, when Hawkins is supposed to be like an hour outside of Indianapolis or something. who built the mall? the russians? where did they stay while building it? how did no one clock the sudden influx of fucking russians in small-town America??? where is the logic duffers??? did you take it out back and shoot it like you did with Hopper and Steve's characterization in S3??? how did Nancy not know who Robin was when they've been in the same class for years? How does Robin know so many languages? Hawkins would have like one secondary language at best, the rest are just a lazy way of telling the audience Robin is smart.

S4 almost got the vibes right again, but there's Eddie, school weirdo that's never been mentioned, and the creel house murders, which would have been well known in earlier seasons, and former jock Steve has NO INTERACTIONS with the basketball team that he would absolutely know!!! (and hawkins apparently has a swim team, which I call bull on because this school doesn't have the funding, but it's crumbs for Steve so it gets a pass).

[aemiron-main]

Hey this is not meant as a criticism of your or others time travel theories, so don’t take it the wrong way, just speaking as a pleb, I do think the timeline thing tho, unless it’s explained in a way that’s super easy to understand, runs the risk of pissing off a lot of people and feeling unsatisfying simply because it’s a very confusing concept to a lot of people in general, and I know in the past a lot of “alternate reality” type “twists” (like it was just a dream, or time travel, or everything was made up in an autistic boys mind—yes that last one happened on an 80s show) have made audiences mad simply because they felt cheated and like a lot of stuff they thought mattered didnt, and for all the people online who are reading theories and scrutinizing things, there are millions more who aren’t and they should be able to follow along as well and feel satisfied (and while I am a tumblr girlie who has followed theories for years, even I didn’t clock time travel and timeline shit till you guys pointed it out here on tumblr so like, even for people in the fandom it’s easy to miss, so i imagine most GA hasn’t clocked it either ) and I’m concerned about how this theory might play out ….

I personally don’t hope it’s about timelines and such simply because of my own selfishness and no matter how i try, while the concept is interesting to me, i find it too confusing and convoluted to understand or enjoy. like i’m trying i wanna be one of the cool kids but it just… loses me completely.

i am PRAYING that if you all are right, and there are these timeline things, that the Duffers really have a succinct, and easily digestible way of revealing this to the audience that won’t take up a whole 30 min of plodding exposition that will leave the GA scratching their heads, but have it be ah OOOH WOW clever and easy to grasp twist that doesn’t leave fans feeling cheated.

I don’t care what the ending is tbh I just want them to stick it and for me to be able to understand it lol

Hey anon! This reply is gonna be shorter than I want it to be simply bc I am super sleepy rn but I just want to toss this post your way where I talked about this whole thing more in depth!

I totally see your concerns, but I actually have seen A LOT of GA folks point out the time travel/timeline stuff (just not as specific/in depth as we’ve done on tumblr), so as far as that part goes, I don’t think there’s too much to worry about. We also have to keep in mind that the duffers, while they ARE trying to write a coherent, cohesive story, are not trying to appease the GA. Many GA members also think that Byler would be “out of nowhere and too difficult to understand”. And also, I say this with Love In My Heart, but I don’t care about “well Everyone should be able to follow it and understand it”/“it would suck,” and i dont mean “i dont care” in a mean way towards you, i just mean it literally. I don’t care. Because my focus, when doing analysis, is “what is the show saying/doing?”, rather than “is the show doing it well/are they going to explain it well?”. Do i think they’re going to do it well? Yes! And I talked about that more in that post I linked. But I’m also not writing my theories around whether or not I think it would be good or bad or easy to understand- I’m writing my theories around the evidence we have & trying to figure out what they’re doing, whether they do it well or do it badly.

Like, I do disagree with “they should be able to follow along and feel satisfied” when it comes to ST & when it comes to that as an argument against timeline stuff. And the reason I disagree is because a.) they WILL be able to, just on a surface level, even if they dont fully comprehend it and b.) I don’t think a show as detailed as ST, is obligated to tone itself down. People can rewatch & figure things out like a puzzle. I don’t think all media needs to be completely, fully easily digestible for everyone. I think it’s fine to make viewers need to think about things!!! And I think that the duffers/the ST team is going to be able to find a happy medium between the more complex stuff & a simpler cohesive surface narrative, especially since the timeline stuff doesnt so much seem to be “going back and fixing things/none of mattered” as it is “the timeline stuff has been causing problems from the Very Beginning and we need to set it right/everything still happened.” I also think that a lot of it us the duffers fucking with the audience’s perception of things & that we’ve already been seeing multiple timelines the whole time, which allows them to tie things up more neatly because they dont have to blast through and show us all the timelines- we’vd already seen them.

I hope this is somewhat coherent bc like I said im half awake right now, so if any of this sounds snarky towards you, it’s not meant to be! <333 I really do think they’ll be able to pull things off in a way that’s complex enough to be interesting/leave more puzzles to solve/make people rewatch to spot things, but also still easy enough to understand that things are wrapped up effectively! And personally, if they ARE going to mess it up (which i really really doubt they will, because like i talked abt in that linked post, the timeline stuff is alllllll interconnected to the main unsolved questions/plot points in ST) there’s nothing i can do about that!!! I’m not in the writers’ room! So, I focus on what I can do- analyzing the information we have & trying to figure out what direction the show is going to take, regardless of whether that direction is good or bad. (and i think it’ll be fantastic!!)

[tea-time-with-london]

I don't think Steve will die in s5. Dustin already lost Eddie and if they kill off Steve it would be too much. Plus Stranger Things is not GoT and tbh every main character deserves a happy end. I don't agree with people who say that Steve's only purpose is dying for his friends, that's super depressing. I wish in s5 we get to see an arc of him outside of romance tho.

If anyone from the teens is in danger it's Jonathan. He didn't have much of an arc since becoming Nancy's boyfriend and his connection with Will and El could be dangerous. If Vecna targets those two specifically (which he probably will) the people around them are in danger, which excludes Steve. He will probably be busy helping Dustin getting over Eddie.

Confession #56

Like I mentioned before, they won't kill off one of their most loved characters. The people who say Steve's only purpose is to die just want him to be off the show so their favorite character has more screen time, in my honest opinion. (Which I get! I also want my favorite characters to have screen time, but I don't want that to happen by just randomly killing the other characters??? LOL)

I have never in my life seen a post that provides a good reason why Steve should die, and that's because there isn't one. (I'd be open to listening, but so far there has not been in my eyes a solid reason as to why Steve should die. Like you said, it's not GoT.) They spent so much time and work on his development...to just what? Give him a brutal death in the last season? It's not logical.

I'd say out of the older teens, Jonathan and Robin are in danger. Jonathan because yeah, he unfortunately was semi non-existent in season 4, which does suck because he was a big part of the first two seasons and one of the things I like about Jonathan is his connection with Will. And I think your spot on by saying he'll be in danger if Vecna targets Will and El, which is already evident that's going to happen. Anyone who is really close to Will and El are going to be in danger the most I believe. (Jonathan, Mike, Max, Hopper, Joyce)

The only reason I say Robin is because I'm like 95% sure Maya said she wouldn't care or mind if they killed Robin off, but please don't quote me on that because I could be misremembering.

And yes, I believe Steve will be helping Dustin grieve Eddie's death. Due to the GA's reaction to Steve, his story, and his growth, and then factor in that the creators of the show quite literally changed shit in the story so Steve could live and have an arc, and then also factor in that the Duffers absolutely love Joe Keery and the way he portrays Steve.....he's most likely one of the safest characters in the show.

[thestobingirlie]

Hello!! Just wanted to say thank you for your absolutely refreshing takes. It makes me feel like I'm not the only one which is so nice. I love checking your blog and reading through your responses, they're always so insightful!! Especially about Steve, Robin and Nancy

One thing ive been thinking about lately  that ive been wondering if you have thoughts on (but no pressure if you dont!) - is Nancy's plan to take down Vecna in s4. She saw the vision , she's ambitious and determined to take Vecna down, but she's also unempathetic, doesn't think about consequences and always needs to be right. She bulldozes over everyone and a part of me wonders how differently it could have gone if they didn't follow her plan. Or adjusted it. I mean, Steve has severe road rash up his whole back and arms, has been bitten, strangled, and is breathing in the toxic Upside Down air - and she still wants to go back into the Upside down relying on him. She dismisses his concerns about the bats and then the bats kill Eddie. A lot of this is probably just the Duffers writing decisions but get this boy some medical attention please oh my god take his injuries seriously. Nancy gets herself another gun even though they don't work on Upside Down creatures.

Sorry this isn't more coherent! Nancy is just so complicated and fucked up and interesting to think about!

thank you so much! i love compliments <3

thanks for calling my responses insightful! i try not to get too lost in what i want for characters and my interpretations and stick to what canon presents us with. obviously my opinions will always seep through, but i’m glad you like them!

i think the thing with nancy’s plan is that the duffers don’t want to make nancy look like an idiot, but her plan was designed to fail.

so everything that goes wrong is kind of outside of her control. there’s an earthquake, and they get caught by vines. eddie chooses to run back into the horde of bats. jason shows up and breaks max’s walkman.

the duffers didn’t want the audience to look at the plan and blame nancy for how it went wrong, because she’s their girlboss.

the thing is, when you look deeper into the plan, it’s just kinda stupid. she has someone majorly injured on the main vecna hunting team (and god someone please help this boy, he’s bled through his bandages nearly the second they’re on), she’s using a gun against an upside down creature when she’s never seen that work (steve has an axe that he just doesn’t use against vecna?), eddie and dustin aren’t given any kind of firepower to defend themselves, and everyone completely forgot that jason was after them.

i think if we’re going within the realm of canon, no plan they came up with was ever going to work because the vecna defeat has to wait for s5.

but within fanon, i do think if they’d waited a little more, if nancy had been a little more willing to listen to the others, planned a little better, this much shit wouldn’t have gone wrong. nancy finds it difficult to consider other people, she can’t always see the big picture when she’s focused on saving people, she’s not super emotionally in tune with others, and as a result the boy that’s seen two people get horrifically killed in the last few days gets put on the suicide mission.

though we also have to remember nancy is traumatised by what vecna showed her, so i don’t know if she ever would’ve been able to think clearly. she’s feeling guilty, and desperate, and so she reasons out max putting herself in danger as for the greater good.

sorry this didn’t end up being more about nancy! nancy is very fun to dive into, and her role in the plan is super interesting, especially because i don’t think she’s a particularly good leader figure, but i think the plan sucked because the duffers needed it to suck. and if the duffers wanted vecna defeated in s4, her plan would’ve worked, and nancy wouldn’t have girlbossed her way too close to the sun.