#because it also gives me the opportunity to clarify certain aspects that might seem confusing or complicated

[meimi-haneoka]

Hello! I'm the not-word-good anon from earlier who should've gone to sleep before sending that ask XDThing is, I don't think Kaito tried to hurt anybody but one person. First of all, the danger of the artifact seems (from how I understood it) to come from the accumulated magic being dangerous specifically to the non-magical Akiho, not that it's inherently designed to harm. It's just a side-effect. (1/5)

Awwww hello anon, thank you for replying to me again!! First of all I want to apologize for the delay (again) of my reply, truth to be told I had started replying to you already yesterday......and then....due to a mistake, I ended up losing everything I had written, and it was a long ass reply (as probably this one will be, let's see if I have the patience to re-write all of that 😂). Unfortunately the auto-save wasn't turned on so here I am, typing everything once again from scratch! I also want to thank you for your nice words (about 'what I do', I just really try my best to spread my love for this series) and I'm really glad to know that my posts have encouraged you to come out of your silence and theorize about the story!! I appreciate a lot the enthusiasm and passion that I can feel from your words, so will you allow me to reply even if we might not agree on all aspects? Is that okay? (Also, I hope I received all the intended asks because there are some numbers missing, hahah)

Let's start from the beginning, Akiho's artifact. I think we have a differing idea of how the spell that the Association and the Squids have imposed on Akiho works. Maybe it's also due to the official ENG translation, I have checked that part and that chapter/scene in particular was translated with lots of inaccuracies, so maybe that's why. If you can, I suggest you to look for Impatient Scans' translation of chapter 35 (where we find out about the ritual through Sakura's experience), you can still find it on sites like Manganelo. Impatient Scans always did such a perfect job with their translations (see, it's not that I'm against any translation that is not mine: they really did a wonderful job, sticking to the original text and meaning as much as possible, and it's really telling that a fan scanlation did a better job than the official one but was forced to interrupt due to copyright reasons) so I totally recommend reading their version till the last chapter they released.

Back to us, and the artifact. Basically, the spell they decided to use on Akiho in that ritual is first of all considered a taboo spell, for evident moral reasons, but not only: its purpose is to turn a human being into a magical artifact. And it's so taboo that it ends up being dangerous even for the casters: we find out later, in fact, that both the Association and the Squids had some members losing forever the ability to perform certain magics as a consequence of having participated to that cursed ritual. The purpose of the artifact is indeed inherently harmful for the bearer, because its goal is to hoard and inscribe on the body of the bearer as many magic spells (obtained from magic books) as possible. And it's specifically said by Kaito that one of the effects of this spell is to crush the soul of the bearer. You have to imagine the body of the bearer as a container with a small balloon inside, representing the person's soul: what happens if you keep stuffing that space with more and more things, till you reach the limit? At one point, the balloon (= the soul) will break. Poof. Disintegrate. That's what got Kaito so on edge and so desperate for this whole time. Because that's a kind of death, per se. A body without a soul is like a walking corpse. Akiho wouldn't have been Akiho anymore. And the spell is specifically designed to obtain that effect because a magic artifact is so much easier to control if the human hosting it doesn't have a soul, a conscience. So it's apparent that, regardless of the bearer having magic or not, the artifact would've obtained that effect anyway. Even if it was passed on Sakura after a switch. And Kaito knew of this, that's why I don't agree on the fact that he would've passed it to Sakura nonchalantly.

Indeed, Kaito turned out to act precisely as you said: he attracted all the distrust and rage on him, but he didn't care, as long as he could bring to completion the only thing he genuinely ever wanted in his life - to keep Akiho safe and happy, without harming anyone in the process. Kaito unfortunately was "stinking" of self-immolating tendencies since long time, particularly for the past he had. Even just seeing how he used time magic without any regard for his life was already an indication that he didn't intend to get out of this alive. My comments on your predictions: 1) It's true that Nadeshiko's watch disappeared after the time rewind, so we don't know exactly where it ended up to, but as the Time Card was created with that appearance, it probably went inside that Card.

2) About Rika meeting Akiho, please keep in consideration that the JP text (differently from the ENG) only said that memories were rewritten by Kaito, not the actual facts or reality. Surely, discrepancies changed some things as to accomodate Akiho into the Kinomoto's household, but from how I interpreted things, this is just a giant hallucination everyone is under, for the effect of the forbidden spell. So it's entirely possible that things up to the point of the enforcement of the spell STILL happened exactly as they happened, but after the spell was activated, everyone's memories (and certain things like the costumes, roles etc) were changed to accomodate for the outcome Sakura and Kaito wished for (the change of the roles in the play, and Akiho being born as Sakura's sister). Because, as I've seen someone pointing out in the fandom, if the entire fabric of reality was rewritten, the artifact itself wouldn't even exist to begin with. Instead, we sadly know that Kaito had to take it into himself, with all the crushing spells (another indication that the artifact is harmful for whoever takes it in: Momo told Kaito that it would be harmful for him precisely in this chapter). This also makes things relatively "easier" if the kids want to reject this situation/break this spell and go back to normal. One thing is retrieving their true memories, another is to mess with reality itself. Also your point 4), Lilie's ring should be with Momo right now. We have seen Akiho's mother placing it on Momo's ear in the flashback, and it's represented by Momo's crown (which she didn't have before receiving that ring from her) in her true form.

Your point 5) is actually very interesting: while I do think that the dragon might be a representation of the seal imposed on Kaito, that same dragon was also depicted on the cover of the book where supposedly the Squids and Association took the ritual to turn Akiho into an artifact from. So yeah, we might have more surprises from here on out!

[chasekimberly1994]

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[sundayschoolpodcast]

You might have already addressed this but I keep hearing about people being upset with what happened to Fiore and was wondering your opinions? I'm not exactly sure what's upset people? I think there's unanswered questions and we may see him and DeBlanc again. Seth and Evan hinted to as much in their AMA. There was an illusion to a homosexual relationship between Fiore and DeBlanc but it was never confirmed. They loved each other but I think it was very innocent. I think they were supposed to be

Second half of message: 

Seen as innocent, since they are angels. They didn’t seem to understand the way the world worked in a lot of aspects. Two angels sleeping together doesn’t mean that it has to be sexual. And if Fiore and Cassidy had sex that doesn’t make him or Cassidy gay. It’s an angel and a vampire who I’m sure the concept of sexuality and even gender didn’t play into it…. If I’m making any sense lol

Response (Rachel’s, aka @hermouthslipped ): Ahh yes. Haha well, I have a Fiore/DeBlanc blog, so I am almost certainly going to be biased in this regard. That said, I will put forth my best effort approach the question impartially. 

To begin, let me say that I understand why the episode would not strike you as particularly devastating. I think there was (and is) a very passionate sect of fans who invested themselves in this aspect of the story, but they (we) were giving spotlight to dialogue and actions which otherwise could be overlooked by the blanket statement “The angels are weird.” 

But Fiore and DeBlanc were written to be together romantically. You’re right, sexuality transcends whatever the two of them were before they came to Earth - Yusef spoke at length about the characters struggling now they were a part of the physical world, a world they did not understand at all. In terms of pain, this means they’ve never felt it before. In terms of sex, this translates to the scene with the vibrator Jesse finds in their things - looking inquiringly at DeBlanc, DeBlanc replies unabashedly with “It was our first time, we didn’t know what we’d need.” (Sundowner)

This quote reflects the two’s profound confusion over how the world works - and makes the most sense if DeBlanc means “It was our first time…having human sex.” It also reflects how completely oblivious they are to what is and is not considered strange to humans. This fits in with their behavior a lot throughout the season - DeBlanc and Fiore apparently thinking that the “cut him open with a chainsaw” plan would satisfy Cassidy, DeBlanc and Fiore never feeling the need to explain why Genesis apparently lives in a coffee can, DeBlanc and Fiore being absolutely scandalized by Jesse’s curiosity about where Genesis came from, etc., etc…If Fiore slept (as in sex) with Cassidy, then he was surely sleeping (as in sex) with DeBlanc. I would actually be extremely uncomfortable with the scenario if that weren’t the case…it would feel much more exploitive and almost predatory - if Cassidy officiated Fiore into a variety of sex he apparently had no knowledge or experience with before. As I read the scene, Cassidy slept with Fiore to provide the “friendship” Fiore was so obviously lost without, the friendship he got from DeBlanc…friendship which would more aptly be described as a romantic relationship. It helped Fiore, because he was so alone at the time. I don’t think Fiore would have gotten the heart-eyes music when he looked at Cassidy laughing at his joke if he had not already experienced that sort of intimacy with someone else who he identified as a “friend.” The sex with Cassidy was ultra-intimate in what (who) it reminded Fiore of, and so it could not be shown - whereas the sex with the prostitute could be played for laughs, as Fiore was clearly completely uninterested. 

But you’re right, they left it ambiguous. There was enough room for viewers to not consider Fiore as in a relationship with DeBlanc. And that is a lot of the reason so many people are upset. Dominic Cooper referred to DeBlanc as the “love of [Fiore’s] life.” But none of the actual show runners had the balls to admit frankly that that was the nature of the two’s relationship. They offered the idea of Fiore sleeping with Cassidy as consolation prize to us not hearing them admit verbatim that Fiore and DeBlanc were together. This decision pissed a lot of people off, myself included. 

Now, this might be out of left field, depending on how much you followed the angelship theories, but the other integral component of DeBlanc and Fiore’s relationship was (is) this: DeBlanc is not an angel - he is a demon. I was (am) more sure about that aspect of the show than I was (am) sure about the “being in a relationship” aspect. Yusef said as much in an interview. DeBlanc speaks over Fiore when Fiore seems about to disagree with DeBlanc about the two of them being “from heaven.” (He says “Both of us” before Fiore can contradict him…as we see with the conversation about the angel phone, Fiore is not good at shutting up when he needs to.) DeBlanc talks about having been to Hell before, Yusef says that DeBlanc “took this job” to get out of hell, and explains Fiore isn’t as afraid of Hell because “He’s from heaven.” DeBlanc also never touches the angel phone. (He doesn’t have “angel hands”)

Now, if they were changing the direction of the story, that would be one thing. But it does not seem as though they are. In this last episode, Fiore never said DeBlanc was an angel - even though he was given plenty of opportunities to. When Cassidy asks “So the Saint can kill angels, right?” Fiore responds with “He can kill anyone. He killed DeBlanc.” 

The writers could have just had Fiore say “Yes, he killed DeBlanc.”

Another hint is given when Jesse is talking to Fiore about Eugene: “You said once you’d get him out for me.” To which Fiore replies: “Well, that’s not going to work. Not anymore. Besides, I’m never going back there.” 

Fiore could have just said “Well that’s not going to work. I’m never going back there.” Replying in the way that he did implied that there are two reasons Fiore is not going to rescue Eugene - one reason is stated, Fiore refuses to return to Hell. But the other reason, the first reason, is not stated. I think it makes the most sense for it be referring to the fact that Fiore no longer has DeBlanc to help him navigate hell - which DeBlanc would be able to do, because DeBlanc is a demon.

A final hint is the fact Fiore referred to both himself and DeBlanc as the individuals who hired the Saint (”we hired him, his contract is with us, he’ll listen to me”)…this is rather strange, because it sure seems like DeBlanc was killed more or less immediately…long before he could be counted as “hiring” anyone. IF DeBlanc was a demon, this would make more sense - as it would imply that both an angel and a demon are needed to open a contract with the Saint. McTavish has said that the Saint has not just been promised the opportunity to be reunited with his family, he has been promised the opportunity to be reunited with his family in Heaven. Transferring the Saint from Hell to Heaven would be a transaction involving both sides. 

I bring up this aspect of the fan theory because it recasts the two of them in my mind - I do not consider them to both be angels, and that alone means that they are less innocent than they might seem. Fiore knows about sex and prostitution. And DeBlanc at least knows that vibrators are not a component of gay sex - something he apparently learned, as he felt compelled to provide an explanation to Jesse.  

Of course, the logical conclusion from 1) Fiore and DeBlanc being together + 2) DeBlanc being a demon while Fiore is an angel is this: Fiore and DeBlanc are the celestial beings who conjoined and created Genesis. I am okay with this not being true (I have a lot of evidence supporting and refuting this aspect of it), but it just seems astronomically improbable to present two separate, unrelated angel/demon relationships. Had this theory been confirmed, Fiore and DeBlanc - a gay couple, at least to viewers (because you’re right, gender isn’t really a thing in Heaven) - would have been seamlessly woven into the plot in a capacity which does not make their characters’ arc based solely on their sexuality - yet while still exploring the latent theme of “forbidden love” - without the forbidden love referring to gender. 

The comics were extraordinarily homophobic. Were this theory to be a reality, the TV show would be fixing the original story’s failings in a manner which is progressive, thematically rich, and brilliantly subtle.

As we stand with the show now, they have - depending on whether or not you believe Fiore and DeBlanc were in a relationship - either killed four gay characters (I’m counting the mascot suicide in the finale), or killed two gay characters, and two gay-ish characters (again, if you do not believe that DeBlanc and Fiore were ever actually together.) Now, IF Rogen and Goldberg’s reddit chat actually yields hope in terms of continuing the characters’ story, I can forgive them. But I am wary, it was disappointing to hear how they referred to the two of them in Talking Preacher (aside from Cooper.)  

Now, I suppose I (we) could just be seeing what I (we) want to see. I have picked over this show so much, and I know that when you are in so deep - your vision can become fogged. And so perhaps all of this will sound like a conspiracy theory to you - which I get and understand. All of this however is the basis for the intense betrayal angelship fans felt at the episode’s conclusion - and why so many of them (us) are afraid to hope that the story will ever be reopened.

I hope this clarifies the emotional reaction certain fans are having - again, I do understand that this is not an aspect of the show universally followed. If you want to hear our reasoning for why we consider the relationship having existed (or presently exists, depending on how optimistic you are) - Kathryn (@priscillajeanohare) and I devoted our third episode to exploring the three aspects of the angelship fan theory…it expands on more of what I presented above.

Apologies for the long, long, long post - and thank you so, so, SO much for writing in, and for listening - it means a ton when you guys talk to us, we absolutely love it. Cheers.

–R

[healthytalkzone-blog]

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That should not even be glorified by a remark.

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Moonbats saved my rear end today. This tendency is my overriding focus. I am a stranger to it. I never lost perspective on the importance of my hokum. You may or may not need to read that provided that I must touch upon one point regarding it. By the way, I understand that not everyone is like me. A minority of fanatics take the initiative by researching and developing Bemass Muscle although I don't want them to fall short under the strain.

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