#because even though aegon sucks and they made him the worse thing a person can be and unredeemable

[llilychen]

it’s really sad that i always looked forward to rhaenyra and/or alicent scenes last season but i now feel the urge to fast forward every time one of them comes on screen

- every alicent scene is her looking sad or crying or her with cole but nothing she does adds anything of value to the plot

- we get the same black council scene in which the men are undermining rhaenyra twice per episode and still nothing is done (i do believe she will make some progress in the next episodes but it’s just so boring to watch her have the same scene over and over again)

cersei and dany i miss you both so much

[opinions-about-tiaras]

Pure cringe seems  like a big overstatement; the only really huge howler I'm seeing in here is Aegon III, who absolutely belongs in the top ten. In fact, I'd give him Viserys I’s spot.

Beyond that, though, this list is HIGHLY accurate and defensible, not pure cringe at all. There’s always quibbling over where to specifically put people but I think the broad tranches are accurate. Like... okay. There’s almost twenty if you count Rheanyra. Let’s break this down a bit.

The top five have an easy three picks; if you don’t have Jaehaerys I, Aegon the Conqueror, and Viserys II in there you’re probably just wrong. Viserys needs to be given a ton of credit for his time as Hand because his reign was so short and he did so little in it, but I feel like that’s very reasonable, and even if you don’t give him credit for that, he devoted his time in the office to things like reforming the Code Jaehaerys and doing stuff like coinage reform; those are the sine qua non of effective, well-intentioned monarchs. You might need to ding him for fucking up the succession, especially if you’re also dinging Viserys I for doing so.

Rounding out the top five... I’d absolutely put Daeron II and Aegon V in there. I’m aware you specifically have a dim view of Daeron the Good and that you have some harsh criticisms of Aegon the Unlikely’s effectiveness... but by the same taken, I’m also having trouble finding anyone on the list I’d bump up above them, because these rankings are relative and bumping someone down means finding someone better. Maybe Jaehaerys II, Maekar, or Aegon III... all of whom are in the top ten. So even there, this list isn’t out of line.

So that’s top five. So far so good. Top ten!

For the second five, your “basically competent, basically meant well” kings largely rule the roost, with one “wow, you sucked, but there isn’t anyone better” king showing up at the tail end. If you didn’t put Daeron II and Aegon V in the top five they’d go in here. If you did, though... this is where you’re gonna find Maekar, Jaehaerys II, Aegon III, and Viserys I.

Let’s talk about Viserys I for a second. His grandson should absolutely be above him, but his overall general ranking here is, I think, correct, and not cringe at all, because... who are you going to bump above him who isn’t already there, precisely?

Both of his kids are already down in the dumps with the shitty kings, where they belong. Daeron I? Even if you dump the entirety of the responsibility for the Dance on Viserys’ head, Daeron I is still much worse; he got far more people killed for no good reason. Viserys at least presided over three decades of peace and plenty; Daeron did... not.

Either Aerys? Ahahaha no. Aerys II is a top contender for worst Targaryen monarch. (I wouldn’t put him there but he’s in contention for it.) And Aerys I is an incompetent dreamer; Viserys I might have liked to party but he paid attention to the realm and picked more able subordinates than Bloodraven; Otto Hightower and Lyonel Strong were both top-tier Hands. For this reason I think he’s also bumped above Baelor.

Maegor? Aegon IV? I’d like to think we can both agree Viserys I is better than either of them. 

That just leaves Jaehaerys II and Aegon III. Jaehaerys II is only one spot behind Viserys on this list already, so the list is still doing okay. Aegon III, I absolutely agree is being done hard here; he should edge his grandpa and shove Aerys I out of the top ten.

I personally am a big booster of Aegon III. He made some terrible choices, but he took the job seriously and he had some iron in him. That moment on the ramparts of Maegor’s Holdfast when, as a child king, he faced down traitorous Kingsguard and rogue, self-appointed Hands and managed to prevail by nothing more than dignity and the power of his office and bloodline... that was a test of kingship many other kings of his house would not have risen to meet.

Rounding out the top ten... this is when you start getting the shitty guys. The last slot I have to give, grudgingly, to Daeron I. The Young Dragon is not my favorite Targaryen King; I find him highly overrated both out of universe and especially in-universe. But much like Viserys I, I cannot, for the life of me, find anyone to put above him. He at least was a charismatic leader of men and was victorious on the field of battle, even if he was terrible at the more important parts of kinging and ultimately lost his idiot war. That bumps him over people like Aerys I.

So that’s the top ten. So far this list is looking pretty good.

For the bottom eight, you descend into the shittiest scions the dynasty has to offer. Ironically, I think its actually harder to rank these guys than it is the kings that had a modicum of competence; their shittiness is harder to compare to the good kings... goodness, I guess.

So for slots eleven through fifteen... this is going to start, in my mind, with Aerys I, Baelor, and Aenys. I have no specific thought as to what precise order those three should be in, but this should be their general position; they meant well, but were SO incompetent that that well-meaning cancels out nearly everything else. They occupy that twilight area between kings who actually had some value-adds and those who were actively malicious and insane.

Fourteen and fifteen are Rhaenyra and her brother. Again, I have no dog in the fight as to specific order, but this is where they belong, and the ONLY reason they make it this high is because their competition is Maegor, Aerys II, and Aegon IV.

And then in the bottom you have the absolute dregs, Maegor, Aerys II, and Aegon IV. Any one of those three is a completely defensible pick for “worst Targaryen monarch.” I personally give that distinction to Maegor, but Aerys II isn’t something I’d argue with.

So yeah, this list is looking pretty good to me. “Only one real egregious howler” is pretty good for this sort of thing. Its far from the worst fan list I’ve ever seen.

An online article on Fansided ranked the Targaryen monarchs. 1. Jaehaerys I - 2. Aegon I - 3. Viserys II - 4. Daeron II - 5. Aegon V - 6. Maekar - 7. Viserys I - 8. Jaehaerys II - 9. Daeron I - 10. Aerys I - 11. Baelor - 12. Aenys - 13. Rhaenyra - 14. Aegon III - 15. Aegon II - 16. Aerys II - 17. Maegor - 18. Aegon IV. Any thoughts?

Pure cringe.

Any ranking that ranks Rhaenyra, who butchered her own people, over Aegon III, who tried his best to rule them fairly, is not something to take seriously. Someone who highly ranks Viserys I, who threw away good rule for decadence and civil war, is not one to take seriously.

Thanks for that, Anon. I need to rinse my brain.

SomethingLikeALawyer, Hand of the King