#because I can actually go through with making a new Durge/Tav and play right away

[parasite-core]

…I want to make a new Durge. A bard ‘conducting a beautiful symphony of murder’. Sounds like fun.

[fictionplumis]

To preface, I definitely think this is a matter of different people needing different messeges and seeing different things reflected in a character. As someone who has never felt trapped in an unhealthy relationship and had only experienced people around me going through that, this isn't the kind of message I need to take away from a character or would be looking for in them, but what you see, OP, is still just as valid for you.

The times I've played and romanced Astarion, I don't consider him abusive or that Tav's love fixes him.

He's an asshole, for sure. Distrusting due to his past, manipulative due to his past and what he's had to do for survival, yeah, but that's before they actually get together. The timing of when Tav hooks up with him depends on what quests you do before the main one, but for the most part, he's beginning to trust Tav and be less of an asshole when they hook up.

And that first time hooking up isn't the beginning of the relationship. That doesn't start until Act 2, I believe?

Someone can be an asshole without being abusive, and to me, Astarion seems like the kind of person where he's an asshole to anyone he doesn't know and trust.

Him manipulating Tav into the relationship in the first place is a really dick move and a betrayal of trust, but doing an abusive thing isn't the same as being an abuser. It wasn't TAV'S love that "fixed" him, it was his own love for Tav that made him not want to do such a shitty thing. An abuser doesn't genuinely strive to be better, and Astarion does.

My playthroughs where I romanced him were all Durge playthroughs where he was resisting the Urges, but Astarion is nothing but supportive and caring.

That only lapses where Cazador is involved, who is the main part of his trauma and the thing that's always taken everything Astarion cares about from him. He once again pulls out the manipulation tactics to try to get Tav on board with him Ascending if you voice any displeasure with it. He's scared. He believes it will protect what he has. And I'm not sure he fully sees the shittiness of what he's doing.

And that also happens in healthy relationships sometimes. No one is perfect, and people sometimes do shitty things without realizing it, especially if they're trying to work through a lot of complicated feelings.

Aside from matters involving Cazador, Astarion doesn't belittle Tav, doesn't try to control them, doesn't try to isolate them, doesn't so much as get jealous if Tav wants to hook up with someone else. To me that shows it is just this one thing, just Cazador, that makes him falter in trying to be a good partner.

When the Ascension comes, he is blinded by that power, rather than wanting it to protect Tav and himself. I wouldn't see that as a red flag in itself. Everyone had their vices and temptations. Now failing the persuasion check and him throwing a hissy fit, THAT'S the red flag. That's an abusive Astarion. That's someone who will toss you aside the second you don't do what they want.

I see that Astarion as completely separate to the Astarion who has all this promised power in front of him, everything he's ever wanted while under Cazador's thumb, and instead hears Tav, listens, and decides that the promise of a new life with Tav is more important.

I see it as two seperate Astarion's because that's the check that makes our breaks the moment. You can do everything right, and he leaves you over that. Or you can some things right, some things wrong, and he still listens. It's like a branching timeline, one timeline where Astarion is a piece of shit, one where he's not, and nothing you can do will change which universe you're in, it's all a matter of luck. Or rather, a roll of the dice.

I can see why someone might think that it's Tav's love that "fixes" him because you're playing Tav, and if you want this "good ending" then you have to pick the choices that would make Astarion better. Mechanically, yes, the player really likes Astarion and therfore making an effort to "fix" him by caring for him.

But I can't help but get immersed in these games. My character doesn't do things in an attempt to fix Astarion. My character would dump Astarion on his prissy little vampire bum if he continued carrying on like a jerk and wasn't visibly making an effort to be better. And in my mind, it's Astarion falling in love that makes him want to be better, at least to this specific person.

Now, as to whether Astarion is a good person...

LOL

But not being a good person doesn't mean you can't be a kind and caring partner to the person you love, and it's up to the person you love to decide whether they're okay with you being an asshole to other people.

The problem with the Spawn ending in regards to the relationship message it sends.

The more I think about it, the more I begin to understand my main issue and gripe with the Spawn ending. Aside from how OOC this ending is and how it makes no sense character, motivation or psychology-wise: Spawn encourages the idea that you can fix a jerk and he can become so much better with the power of your love and guidance while in reality, it's a horrible message to send.

“I can fix him” is exactly how people end up in and stay in an abusive relationship - they live with the hope that “my love can make him a better person” and - surprise - it never works and leads to a broken relationship at best, being trapped in this relationship at worst.

Sending a message that your “fixing” can truly work is horrible and, honestly, a cruel reality would have been a far better ending: your ‘anti-ritual persuasion’ doesn’t work, Astarion lashes out at you and leaves, leaving you to realize that it is always important to wake up and leave your toxic partner, instead of wasting your life trying to be their life coach and saviour.

Real victims of abuse need to realize this: that it's important to leave an abusive, toxic partner, to recognize their manipulation and how unhealthy it is, not witnessing what Spawn ending showed: another instance of a problematic relationship which was magically fixed “if you try hard enough”.

Cinema Therapy - while discussing Twilight - tackled this topic, and their input is really the best way I can ever explain why Spawn is such a horrible ending with a terrible message for everyone - abuse victims or not. “Fixer-upper” is a terrible mentality, the concept of fixing is horrible for both parties and toxic partners need to be avoided: not stayed with in hopes that “my love can make them better”.

Spawn romance ending is not just a myth - it’s a very toxic myth. Same thing with Ascendant.

Hate Ascendant all you want, you can absolutely have your preferences, but please don’t think that Spawn is in any way better just because it's less on-the-nose.

Ascendant Astarion is obvious in his toxicity, and people pick up on that and don’t want this “bad ending” - but Spawn is the same toxic relationship but better disguised - something that abusers are good at - disguising their worst sides, showing you the good side so you would remain trapped in this unhealthy relationship.

And frankly, I prefer Ascendant far more in that regard: it's horrible, creepy, dark, but it shows you how problematic his love is, and raises your alarm bells that you need to leave this sort of relationship; Meanwhile, Spawn romanticises this problematic relationship and that is the worst part.

I would rather see an over-the-top Ascendant who teaches people to be alarmed and leave toxic partners, than Spawn who teaches them to stay with unhealthy partners because “you can bring out the best in them”. 

No. You can’t.