#beastclaw josef

[katyahina]

Hey so are Izzy’s admirer and beastclaw Jozef different characters or the same guy actually?

The complication seems to come from the fact that with some Tomb Prospector summons and enemy variants, their face data are identical! So, enemy variants of Executioner are sharing the sliders with Queen Killer, enemy variants of average Tomb Prospectors share the sliders with Gremia (technically, because they have generic placeholder face model instead of sliders used to create NPCs)... and Izzy's Admirer hostile NPCs are just enemy variants of Beastclaw Josef!

(Josef)

(Izzy's Admirer/Successor)

You can already tell they have identical faces! I would like to 1000% confirm this, if I get a decent free-camera tool for Bloodborne to do this, but so far it seems legit! Another interesting detail is that the summons (Gremia, Queen Killer and Josef) have absolutely identical weapons and clothes sets to their "enemy" counterparts! I take this information from a certain Bloodborne wiki all compiled by one guy (@Mephistophea on Xitter, absolute chad) where many datamines are included just to confirm lack of differences! Here ( x ) is the page for Izzy's Admirer, confirming that he has the same clothes and weapons (Charred Hunter set + Beast Claw) as Josef, and here ( x ) is the page for a nameless Tomb Prospector that has the same clothes and weapons (Tomb Prospector set + Rosmarinus and Ludwig's Holy Blade) as Gremia! Mind that there is a variant of hostile Tomb Prospector NPC that has different weapons (Kirkhammer and Repeating Pistol). And... well, with Queen Killer, you can say that hostile variant is the same - naked NPC except for Gold Ardeo and Logarius' Wheel :p

The thing is, two of these hostile NPC are found in preset (so, "canon" dungeons): a single preset Izzy's Admirer in Lower Loran and a single preset Tomb Prospector in Isz! Needless to mention that 'Izzy's Admirer' somehow earned a "profile picture"...?

So yeah, I personally think that this is valid to make an exception for these specific two hostile NPCs since they are found in preset dungeons and make them their own characters! But also, these hostile hunters are just variants of generic hostile NPCs found all over Root Dungeons, besides they respawn... And ALSO, 'death' is a very loud word for Bloodborne lore, so for all we know preset Izzy's Admirer and preset Tomb Prospector might be Josef and Gremia but more in "shadow of the past" form. Like, we kill Henryk and after that we can summon him for the hunt! ...but also, we never need to kill these preset hunters to summon Josef and Gremia...

My answer is, it is up to interpretation! Because Chalice Dungeon summons and enemies specifically went under the 'videogame mechanics' razor the most imo! The certain thing is though, that 'Izzy's Admirer/Successor' is a covenant, and they all use Beast Claw, roam Loran dungeons and wear Charred Hunter set! My headcanon is that they just try to find whatever 'epiphany' that Irreverent Izzy had (in Loran), and wearing Charret set might be either because of their fear before fire (as those seeking beasthood power), because they all were Powder Kegs that agreed with Djura but went above and beyond, or a mix of both ideas! I myself choose to personify Josef and Izzy's Admirer from preset dungeons, and see them as different characters!

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Somewhat relevant information:

(Image from official guide, found on Xitter ( x ))

Here you can see all hostile Chalice Dungeon hunters, SOME of which also made it into being summons! Gremia is Tomb Prospectof B, as you can see! But also, there was a plan for a Vileblood Drifter summon named Leo and Bone Ash Hunter summon named Carla! These names are cut content and I found here ( x ) (together with mysterious 'Defeated Hunter'). Fandom has an agreement that the face data for unused NPC that still exists in the game files is likely Leo:

So yeah, in the conclusion, I myself apply the known face data to Hunter summons (Queen Killer, Josef and Gremia), make unique one for hostile variants found in preset dunegons (single Izzy's Admirer and single Tomb Prospector B) and reuse the unused hunter face for Leo, which I count as Cainhurst character! (I combined the Cainhurst portrait of female Knight and cut NPC Carla, because Carla is a very Cainhurst name and I would not put it past a Vileblood to connect with their ancestors and join Bone Ash Hunters to defend her clan from their own curiosity, but that's another story lol. Though actually this is an idea of @val-of-the-north, I just stealeded it :> )

(Here is the face data page: ( x ))