#beastclaw josef

[katyahina]

Hey so are Izzy’s admirer and beastclaw Jozef different characters or the same guy actually?

The complication seems to come from the fact that with some Tomb Prospector summons and enemy variants, their face data are identical! So, enemy variants of Executioner are sharing the sliders with Queen Killer, enemy variants of average Tomb Prospectors share the sliders with Gremia (technically, because they have generic placeholder face model instead of sliders used to create NPCs)... and Izzy's Admirer hostile NPCs are just enemy variants of Beastclaw Josef!

(Josef)

(Izzy's Admirer/Successor)

You can already tell they have identical faces! I would like to 1000% confirm this, if I get a decent free-camera tool for Bloodborne to do this, but so far it seems legit! Another interesting detail is that the summons (Gremia, Queen Killer and Josef) have absolutely identical weapons and clothes sets to their "enemy" counterparts! I take this information from a certain Bloodborne wiki all compiled by one guy (@Mephistophea on Xitter, absolute chad) where many datamines are included just to confirm lack of differences! Here ( x ) is the page for Izzy's Admirer, confirming that he has the same clothes and weapons (Charred Hunter set + Beast Claw) as Josef, and here ( x ) is the page for a nameless Tomb Prospector that has the same clothes and weapons (Tomb Prospector set + Rosmarinus and Ludwig's Holy Blade) as Gremia! Mind that there is a variant of hostile Tomb Prospector NPC that has different weapons (Kirkhammer and Repeating Pistol). And... well, with Queen Killer, you can say that hostile variant is the same - naked NPC except for Gold Ardeo and Logarius' Wheel :p

The thing is, two of these hostile NPC are found in preset (so, "canon" dungeons): a single preset Izzy's Admirer in Lower Loran and a single preset Tomb Prospector in Isz! Needless to mention that 'Izzy's Admirer' somehow earned a "profile picture"...?

So yeah, I personally think that this is valid to make an exception for these specific two hostile NPCs since they are found in preset dungeons and make them their own characters! But also, these hostile hunters are just variants of generic hostile NPCs found all over Root Dungeons, besides they respawn... And ALSO, 'death' is a very loud word for Bloodborne lore, so for all we know preset Izzy's Admirer and preset Tomb Prospector might be Josef and Gremia but more in "shadow of the past" form. Like, we kill Henryk and after that we can summon him for the hunt! ...but also, we never need to kill these preset hunters to summon Josef and Gremia...

My answer is, it is up to interpretation! Because Chalice Dungeon summons and enemies specifically went under the 'videogame mechanics' razor the most imo! The certain thing is though, that 'Izzy's Admirer/Successor' is a covenant, and they all use Beast Claw, roam Loran dungeons and wear Charred Hunter set! My headcanon is that they just try to find whatever 'epiphany' that Irreverent Izzy had (in Loran), and wearing Charret set might be either because of their fear before fire (as those seeking beasthood power), because they all were Powder Kegs that agreed with Djura but went above and beyond, or a mix of both ideas! I myself choose to personify Josef and Izzy's Admirer from preset dungeons, and see them as different characters!

___________________

Somewhat relevant information:

(Image from official guide, found on Xitter ( x ))

Here you can see all hostile Chalice Dungeon hunters, SOME of which also made it into being summons! Gremia is Tomb Prospectof B, as you can see! But also, there was a plan for a Vileblood Drifter summon named Leo and Bone Ash Hunter summon named Carla! These names are cut content and I found here ( x ) (together with mysterious 'Defeated Hunter'). Fandom has an agreement that the face data for unused NPC that still exists in the game files is likely Leo:

So yeah, in the conclusion, I myself apply the known face data to Hunter summons (Queen Killer, Josef and Gremia), make unique one for hostile variants found in preset dunegons (single Izzy's Admirer and single Tomb Prospector B) and reuse the unused hunter face for Leo, which I count as Cainhurst character! (I combined the Cainhurst portrait of female Knight and cut NPC Carla, because Carla is a very Cainhurst name and I would not put it past a Vileblood to connect with their ancestors and join Bone Ash Hunters to defend her clan from their own curiosity, but that's another story lol. Though actually this is an idea of @val-of-the-north, I just stealeded it :> )

(Here is the face data page: ( x ))

[majitek]

dfsxjjfdhssd sorry for the asks spam but that was actually a very interesting read!! I love talking about ships, I just never have a chance to xD And you are the first person I've met in the fandom who ships Brador and Simon (which is very unexpected looking at how all other fandoms treat 'enemies' duos of this kind) and? I love?? the tragic implication? We've seen stories about people abandoning their fractions/ideals for love, but seeing a character abandone love for their ideals instead is just so much more painful...... Also here is a bit that might interest you - whereas we only personally meet 2 Djura's friends, description of the Gatling Gun mentions that Djura had THREE companions! It is speculated that mysterious third companion is Beastclaw Josef (a co optor in dungeons) and I honestly believe this x) Overall? This is a free spot for a fan-character, or some WILD connection between pre-existing ones. Ok ok ok now for THE ask - how do you see Henryk x Gascoigne, considering Gascoigne is not.... quite a free man? Maybe as a thing in the past, or maybe even cheating, or something I cannot even suppose yet? I am curious o:

IT RLY IS SO TRAGIC💔 THEY MAKE ME SO SAD😭😭

Hrngg I'm definitely n o t  a fan of how a lot of ppl portray the ship (it makes me really uncomfortable. I dont recommend trying to look for ship content💀💀) which is why I don't rly talk about it ydjdhdh, but I am absolutely enthralled with the version in my head😫!!! So I'm glad you found it interesting too!! :"D

I could ramble for so long about them but ANYWays, I did know about the 3rd!! Im ngl I couldnt remember if it was 2 or 3 bc I keep seeing both descriptions n I got confused💀💀😭 so ty for confirming that!!😳😳 oh man when I first heard about Josef, it was when I thought I saturated all the lore for the powder kegs💔💔 so i got SO EXCITED TO SEE THIS WILD MF LMAO. I imagine that spending so much time with the beasts, they just decided to embrace it like Izzy, I love this guy so much.

AND for the actual answer to the ask... im ngl I have no idea OOF. Uhhh when I first started liking it I DIDNT KNOW HENRYK WAS APPARENTLY IMPLIED TO BE THE GRANDAD??? But tbh I always just thought of it like how some children call other non-relative adults "uncle/aunty" or "big sis/big bro" (I know we do this a lot in asian cultures at least). Mm It couldve been a thing in the past?? Perhaps Henyrk still harbors some feelings even after💔💔😭... theres also poly relationships if theyre cool with that🤔!! Its complicated, I dont look at it too often and I kinda just bounce around whatever idea feels right if I'm browsing gascoryk content😭

[katyahina]

Powder Kegs stuff (Just some observations as I search for third friend of Djura)

Okay so....

First things first, it is not necessary that the entire Powder Kegs workshop was like, 4 people - not impossible but lets just leave the possibility that it might refer to like, closest friends or something, just in case! We already know who the two of them are:

(Bruh, sharing face data with Simon is odd... @majitek says him and Simon are twins that split because one hated guns but other loved them and I absolutely believe it x) )

Interestingly, Djura's Ally doesn't use any sort of Powder Kegs related weaponry, besides being called ally/friend/whatever has different ring than being someone's student. So in fact it is not even certain if the first guy is a Powder Keg per-say, he might even be just someone that joined Djura's side on the beasts after remorse on what happened with Old Yharnam. But all in all yeah, whoever this guy really is, it is simple and not-contradictory to assume that he is indeed one of the three 'companions'. Both guys wear Charred Hunter Set, too!

(From now on I am going to use literal word-to-word picks from my fav document, LastProtagonist's translation guide ( X ), just in case so here's why cranky wording. Notice how original script makes it way more evident Charred Hunters hunted victims of beasthood right as Old Yharnam was being burned, not afterwards some survived the fire, like official translation makes it sound, hence the huge fire resistance! Basically hunted those who were refusing to burn + tried to escape.)

So yeah, since both the guy that's with Djura in Old Yharnam and the guy with Gatling Gun that is in the Nightmare cave surrounded by beasts that don't attack him wear the same, AND Djura stopped hunting beasts after what happened with Old Yharnam, it is fair to assume third person should wear the same attire! As for who could the third person be, I have a few versions!

1) Beastclaw Josef

He is one of the co-optor summons in Loran - area that is full of beast patients that also do fill Old Yharnam and Hunter's Nightmare, he has Charred Hunter set. And clearly isn't opposed to beasthood? I would actually say it is the most certain choice, however, there is another character in the game that meets the same 'checkmarks':

This is Izzy's Admirer! They're hostile hunter found in the Loran as well, with the only difference with Josef that he wears Tomb Prospector Hood (since Charred Hunter Set doesn't have headwear), instead of Black Hood like Djura's two buddies and Josef. Kinda understandable - he is probably exploring to follow footsteps of Izzy that apparently cracked the code on how to benefit from beasthood... if not be happy with it - 'apostate' refers to person that was with a religion institution but betrayed it, which in Bloodborne context means to consciously betray 'Fear the Old Blood'/fear of the beast within man.

Josef also is a rare dungeons helper that doesn't use Torch - probably to highlight that beasts fear fire, so since Charred Hunter provides highest Fire resistance in game for all we know maybe he obtained these clothes to be more protected from fire (though it can be the case for Izzy's Admirer too). In the case if Josef started to lean to beastly side more even before Old Yharnam was burnt (since he uses Izzy's trademark weapon that increases beasthood), the actual charred hunter could have chased Josef in the dungeons and get killed - who knows!

In either case, it is possible that Josef was the third guy, but the evidence we do have is not as binding as I used to think! Besides if 'Djura's companion' specifically refers to Charred Hunters that helped to burn the town and then regretted it and allied with Djura on 'beasts are men' thing, it'd make it a bit strange that Josef does help the player to hunt beasts?

2) Beastly Hunter

He is a hostile hunter met in Hunter's Nightmare! Firing Hammer Hunter Badge allows you to buy some beta versions of what's eventually created in Powder Kegs. I already mentioned this, but most likely the word heretics here refers to how they created weapons heavily contrasting the "holy" blades of Healing Church hunters, rather than them eventually ditching the hunt because Healing Church decided to burn Old Yharnam. It'd make sense to close the entire workshop as that happened, however when it was functional it was still known as 'heretical', moreover some weapons are genuinely messed up! Like, Boom Hammer is even SAID to be loved by those that hated beasts the most. Also the Molotovs that are made by both Oto Workshop and Powder Kegs mention how after Old Yharnam was burnt, this is now basically the rule to use fire against beasts:

Either way, narratively, I struggle to see the meaning of Powder Kegs separating from Oto Workshop. Firing Hammer Badge lets you buy Piercing Rifle, Delayed Molotov and Delayed Rope Molotov, whereas with Powder Keg Hunter Badge you buy Stake Driver, Rifle Spear, Rope Molotov Coctail and Oil Urn - basically similar complex gadgets + burning stuff but more advanced. Nothing contrasting, so would not there be more sense to stay where they were and continue to improve?

But like, beastial hunter is now almost entirely a beast AND also drops the rune that is associated with Laurence's downfall and overall failure to control beasthood. So in fact, if Oto Workshop as it was fell for beasthood - they would probably HAVE to relocate and rename! Besides remember that Healing Church spread bullshit rumor that beasthood was like a virus one could contract, so should this person be close to Djura, that might have only added to already existing motivation to burn Old Yharnam - to prevent "virus" from spreading!

(Interestingly, it is hinted by notes that Old Yharnam was burn on the Bloodmoon night (so when Hunter's Dream was created), and Djura used to be a Dream Hunter himself, maybe even the very first Dream Hunter depending on how fast you wanna make his change of mind, so yeah you can say his character development was NOT instant)

So yeah, the more I think about it, the more I realize 'three companions' probably refered to people the closest to Djura, because if companions refers to just the workshop it's strange to have one only made of four people (albeit funny thought), but if it refers to Charred Hunters that grew sympathetic of beasts - Izzy's Admirer kinda breaks the number. Somewhat. Probably. Anyways, I see one more possible option:

3) Valtr

Okay but hear me out:

Have you noticed that League exists to crash Vermin, but you can ONLY see Vermin with the Impurity rune (dubbed by LP as Stagnation here), but this rune WAS discovered thanks to Valtr, and Iron Helm is symbol of being head of the League, but its previous owner is said to be one-eyed, but Valtr has both of his eyes?

...

Okay so basically, for myself I concluded that previous owner, if they were truly relevant to the League, was at least a "co-founder" of sorts for the League since it cannot exist without a Rune discovered thanks to Valtr! However, it is not even NECESSARY that original helmet owner was leader - 'passing from generation to generation' might refer less to a history and more to intention to pass it down, because Valtr cannot help the League anymore after stopping seeing Vermin.

As for what it has to do with Powder Kegs - the bucket helm actually is not a whole bucket, but chunks of metal weldered together in awkward manner if you look closer. Meanwhile Djura is conveniently "missing" right eye. Granted his Grey Wolf Cap has a model that covers right eye with bandages even when worn by the player, but... not to play a mind-reader, but seems like it is a pointless thing, unless they just intended to make Djura one-eyed but had to cover hunter model limitation on it at least with a set piece. I pesonally believe this more than them intending one-eyed Valtr yet being too lazy to remove one of Valtr's eyes when after he passes the helmet you can OBVIOUSLY see his face with no datamining needed!

ANYWAYS!

It might be all cropped to that helmet being Djura's awkward welder helmet as he was working on creating his weapons. It is possible that Valtr simply commissioned weapon from Powder Kegs and was not affiliated, but we can't know for sure.

What we DO know is that he was called "forbidden" beast eater, and Yharnamites recycled story of his arrival as some sort of cringy drama, so it could fit 'kind but stupid' Djura to pick up a hunter that had his reputation ruined before even BECOMING a hunter. Valtr could have snatched the helmet from Djura after he backed off on hating beasts - as both some token of lost friendship and a reminder to do better than him! Though I mentioned headcanon that since you can get Vermin dropped from red-eyed Old Hunters specifically, AND the only scourge beast that has red eyes in the entire game is in Old Yharnam - Valtr and Djura might have unspoken agreement that if someone League pursues ends up in Old Yharnam they leave them be, they'll probably soon to become a beast anyway if they were so "impure".

In fact, I think this option could work well if you don't want to make up separate character for whoever owned Iron Helm before but nor you want to remove Valtr's eye!

Conclusion

Everything in this game is designed to have several choices with neigher being entirely clear and Miyazaki drinks tears of lorediggers and NOTHING else ever! So yeah, in both cases with beastial hunter and with Valtr being the possible third person, 'third companion' would refer more to bonding over weird weapons workshop business rather than specifically sympathizing with beasts! Works with how the only character 100% confirmed in item desc to be apprentice of Djura also has a Powder Keg weapon.

Actually, it can get even worse - maybe 'three companions' DO refer to Djura's Apprentice, beastial hunter and Valtr, meanwhile his ally is just some boyfriend guy that helped to burn the town like many others but was convinced by Djura to reconsider his ways, would explain lack of any Powder Keg weapon from him! Not necessarily though.

I myself struggle with choices, but pesonally I lean more towards third companion being beastly hunter because it lets me add more character to Josef and I did already fill the gap with 'one eyed person' to explain some other concept in the lore and what it has to do with League's mission! But... yeah either way I had fun compiling all these thoughts and checking how many ways there really is! In fact, third companion can be a fan-character altogether - NEVER underrate the ways well-added FC can help the story! These all are just canon-tied possibilities.