#bc it allows me to analyze more of izzys character and the show as a whole

[ourflagmeansgayrights]

ok so like i get where ppl are coming from with the “the crew loves izzy” takes but also like. ok. i think that take involves a certain amount of reading very deeply into the text to a degree that is almost reading against the text at some points. it’s like when ppl pour all this energy into an underdeveloped and unportant side character—none of those layers ppl add to the character are strictly contradicted by the text, but it clearly wasn’t what the writer intended for anyone to really focus on. and yeah, death of the author, just bc the writers didn’t intend for ppl to think abt something that hard or care about it that much doesn’t mean we’re not allowed to do whatever the fuck we want. but bc i love analyzing the shit out of this show i do want to talk about WHY i think the textual support for this headcanon isn’t rlly there.

first of all. when archie is like “why are we trying so hard to save this guy, he’s kinda a dick” and jim’s like “yeah but he’s our dick.” rather than elaborate on what makes izzy special to them they’re like “it used to be that the crew all had each other’s backs no matter what and things were better back then” while reminiscing fondly about 1. olu and 2. that shot from season 1 where the whole crew is hanging out except for izzy who’s sulking in the background hating everyone. if this was supposed to be an “izzy’s a dick but we love him anyway” moment i would expect jim to talk about. yknow. izzy. instead to me ot comes across more like an “izzy’s a dick but crew is crew, we stick up for each other even if we don’t particularly like each other bc it’s us against the world” which isn’t as impactful from an izzy stanning perspective but i think makes for, like, an interesting allegory abt the queer community. we all gotta defend the rights of ppl in our community even if those specific ppl are dicks and we don’t get along with them.

second of all. after they save izzy’s life and get caught by ed they all leave the room and then a few minutes later a gun goes off. maybe someone saw ed leave the room before the shot was fired, but either way they think either ed just killed izzy or izzy just killed himself. and then they DO NOTHING ABOUT THIS. nobody checks on the body. they put all this effort into saving izzy’s life and then when their efforts are foiled they do not seem that bummed out about it. the next scene with any crew member in it is frenchie talking to ed on deck, and ed is like “go take the day off” and frenchie is like “oh nice!” and he’s like, confused and a little concerned about ed suddenly steering the ship rlly erratically, but he also seems pretty excited about getting some time off (after so many raids in a row i would be too lol). and THEN!!! in the next scene where we get the whole crew, they’re crowded in the hallway that leads out to the deck and the conversation they have isn’t “oh my god i can’t believe ed killed izzy after we cut off izzy’s leg” it’s “maybe ed’s better now? maybe killing izzy was all it took? he seems pretty cheerful for the first time in ages, maybe ed’s okay?” like literally they think ed just killed izzy and they are more worried about ed’s emotional state than they are grieving a beloved shipmate

then in 2.04 the crew B plot is so blatantly “the crew struggles to trust each other again but after seeing izzy be incredibly sad and pathetic they remember that a good crew has each other’s backs no matter what and so they extend izzy some unearned kindness and make him a new leg” that i’m amazed that other interpretations even exist. like literally they’re all drawn away from screaming at each other with weapons drawn by izzy making some dramatic announcement and then falling and then drunkenly crawling away and refusing their help rambling “youre born alone you die alone” over and over again or whatever melodramatic bullshit he said. like he’s muttering abt being miserable and alone and there’s a WHOLE ROOM OF PEOPLE!!! standing RIGHT THERE!!!! like “oh hey man do you need help standing up? no? no ur just gonna crawl away? um. ok.” and then they all go “well at least we’re not as fucked up as that guy. maybe we should do something nice for him?” like they are literally almost explicitly motivated by pity, not fondness. which yeah, it’s probably fucked up the way they use izzy’s new disability to sort of emphasize how pathetic he’s being, but i think the intention there is not that izzy’s pathetic bc he’s disabled, he’s pathetic bc he’s refusing to accept help. like the crew doesn’t go “yikes 😬 at least we don’t have his issues” abt izzy falling down when his makeshift prosthetic breaks, they go “yikes 😬” when he bats away their hands and goes on a weird mumbling tirade. definitely not the most sensitive way to depict izzy in this mental state, but that’s a different post probably. for the sake of THIS post tho: the takeaway i got from this scene is that the crew is remembering how to be there for each other again. it’s easier for them to let go of their paranoia and stop being so defensive and distrustful when izzy is there as an example of what happens when you’re TOO defensive and distrustful. “the crew makes a leg for izzy bc they care about him on a personal level” did not seem to be the focus of that story arc. to me.

in 2.05 we get our first ever instance of a character expressing appreciation for something izzy said or did or some trait he expressed (except for stede that time in 1.06 when izzy backed stede up on wanting to do a fuckery, which he only did specifically bc he wanted stede to fucking die and ed was taking too long), and it’s lucius saying he loves the shark izzy whittled. but during the entire episode leading up to that scene izzy is either in syede’s storyline where he’s not engaging with the crew or he’s getting snarked at by lucius, and not in a fun teasing way. like during that whole bit where izzy steals his cigarettes and calls him “twatty” lucius just looks so fucking annoyed and then uncomfortable. and then at the end of the episode izzy is sort of offering him advice and lucius is just sarcastically like “that sounds healthy.” and within this storyline, the point of these scenes isn’t rlly abt the developing and deepening relationship btwn izzy and lucius, it’s abt lucius individually coping w his trauma. izzy in this episode kinda exists in a weird place in the narrative, where he plays a supporting role in two different characters’ (lucius’s and stede’s) storylines without getting a central arc for himself. and both of those two storylines are only really about lucius and stede respectively, izzy is just there as this a static character who imparts wise advice. which is a very weird role for him to take, imo, but on top of that it doesn’t rlly contribute any sense of like, actual bonding btwn izzy and the other two.

and in 2.06 they just enjoy the show izzy puts on. they like listening to him sing. it’s all very cute! but also. i would not say that it shows the crew really cares about izzy?? i was in pit orchestra in high school and all the lead theater kids were always fucking assholes but they were also rlly good singers and it was fun to listen to them. i would mouth along to the words being sung by bitches who seemed to be trying to be sharpay evans irl for some bizarre fucking reason. like, cartoonishly mean girls. so like, the crew listening and dancing to izzy’s song doesn’t rlly sell “the crew loves izzy” to me. if anything, i would say that actually a stronger indicator of the crew loving izzy would be wee john sharing his makeup, and it’s a shame that we don’t get to see this happen. i mean that genuinely, i think that would’ve been a great moment to rlly strengthen izzy’s arc and it just. doesn’t exist on screen. and this isn’t like the finale where we know for a fact that they had to force a 40-minute episode into 30 minutes, Calypso’s Birthday has a runtime WELL under 30 minutes. it would’ve been SO easy to add another like 45 seconds of izzy and wee john getting ready together, but the only moment they show us is izzy walking in and discovering drag for the first time. it feels like the focus of this scene is less about a moment of connection between two characters and more about izzy individually having a gender breakthrough—and that carries on with the rest of the performance, too. bc it’s a performance, it’s everyone looking at izzy, it’s izzy a half step away from the crew as he puts on a show. the narrative framing of all this puts the focus entirely on izzy as a solo act, not on izzy as part of the crew. they like his performance, but we aren’t rlly shown evidence of the crew liking him as a person.

and that’s kinda it for izzy and the crew! up until he’s actively dying in ed’s arms and they’re all in the background silently weeping, at least (and btw, speaking from experience but uhhhh it’s pretty normal to cry when u watch someone die even if u have literally no connection to the person dying). even when they’re helping him back to the ship, ed is the one who notices he’s injured, nobody notices until he’s already giving izzy support. and i fully believe roach flips off izzy’s grave marker with fondness, but that’s also like. the only little personal moment any of them aside from ed has during the funeral. they do all laugh at his pinocchio joke earlier in the ep but idk if that one line can carry the entire weight of “the crew loves izzy” on its own. apparently there’s some shots during the zheng v stede fight where izzy can be seen in the background close to jim and archie??? but like, you can’t tell me a background shot of izzy standing near some crew members is strong textual support for the crew loving him. and i don’t think i need to argue abt any scenes in s1 bc literally every single crew member who was on that boat, ivan and fang included, was about to fucking drown him in the fucking ocean.

there is one single scene that gives actual strong evidence that anyone other than ed likes or cares about izzy. it’s the part at the end of impossible birds when fang is crying after ed shot izzy. so maybe fang specifically loves izzy, even tho izzy used to pull fang’s beard a lot and fang didn’t like it bc it hurt. idk.

here’s the thing tho. in 2.01 the writers use dialogue very effectively to tell us about the kraken era. the crew doesn’t say much, but what the do say tells us a lot: we know that archie thinks the kraken era is all normal pirating stuff, jim felt like the wedding raid (which seems like their only raid on a civilian ship and not a military one) was a step too far, frenchie is Not Okay but he’s doing a fantastic job repressing everything, izzy looks tired but the specific thing echoing in his head right before he starts crying in front of the crew is ed telling him “if you can’t do the job, someone else will.”

and we know fang, who’s known ed for decades, has never seen ed like this. and the specific thing he mentions as something he’s never seen from ed before is not batting an eye when ivan died. meaning that even before meeting stede, fang would’ve expected ed to have some sort of reaction to ivan dying.

and the thing about ivan is that we know next to nothing about him. he has very little dialogue in season one. we don’t even know how long he’s been working with ed—long enough to have at least heard about fang having to put his dog down bc “the love of a pet makes a man weak” when fang joined ed’s ship years ago, even if ivan wasn’t actually there yet at the time—but we do know that watching ed tell ghost stories was apparently the most open and available he’d ever seen ed get. so it doesn’t sound like ivan and ed were especially close. ivan was almost certainly less close to ed than izzy was.

if fang expected to see ed have some sort of reaction to the death of an ordinary crew member (who mightve been working for ed for decades, might’ve been working for him for months, we really can’t say) who wasn’t even that close to ed, seeing ed casually and unflinchingly inflict a life-threatening gunshot to his first mate must’ve been fucking earth-shattering. and interpretation is also supported by what fang actually says while he’s crying at the end of 2.01—it’s not “i can’t stop crying, izzy’s hurt” or “i can’t stop crying, izzy’s going to die.” its “i can’t stop crying, ed shot izzy.” more than the imminent demise of a crew member, fang is shaking and sobbing and traumatized because he can’t believe ed would do that.

and if that feels like a reach, just remember what happens after the leg is cut off, after the crew most likely believes ed shot izzy again, this time 100% fatally: the whole crew is crowded in the hallway, and fang asks “do we think he’s… better?”

fang is not sad about izzy. or if he is, it’s dwarfed by how much more sad fang is about ed.

in conclusion: have fun with ur headcanons i am not the boss of you but also there is less canonical textual evidence of the crew loving izzy than some of y’all seem to think k byeeeee

[yungstallyns]

That's fair! I think whether Sissyphobia can be considered a subtype of homophobia or it's own separate classification is a topic serious scholars could debate endlessly. I have wondered if fans are using 'homophobia' to describe different things. Honestly while it's funny to say, my bigger accuracy issue is with 'Izzy INVENTED homophobia' treated as serious analysis. Whatever his problen is, while he might stand out on the ship, he's not alone outside of it.

Oh for sure I feel like the topic has a lot of nuance and it could be talked about forever. And homophobia is definitely something that exists within our flag means death universe and not something new created by Izzy lol because it's alluded to briefly when Lucius talks about beards and how I used to pretend he was straight and things like that but I don't think that the show wants to subject the viewers to the reality of actual explicit homophobia which is a part of why I don't think Izzy is being homophobic but he also hasn't done anything overtly homophobic.

Piracy seems to be male-dominated mostly from what we see in the characters in the show, so it's most certainly affected by this toxically masculine society and I feel like we could really have like long conversations about it and the inherent interactions toxic masculinity has with homophobia.

Because toxic masculinity interacting with homophobia most certainly exist I think the way Steve grew up and the way he was treated by his peers and his father definitely was a reflection of him being a gay child who had interests that were not traditionally masculine. So I can also see from the view of being hostile towards things that are traditionally feminine interests and behaviors being seen as homophobia and really yeah there's just lots of nuance to the conversation when talking about Izzy specifically. I suppose my interpretation of it is he doesn't seem to have a problem with men being together it's more so rooted in the toxic masculinity rejection of emotional vulnerability on top of what society dictates a pirate should be which is sadistic cruel and without mercy. Because if he had a problem I think with certain characters being gay he certainly wouldn't have made black pete first mate who he knows was having relations with Lucius. But do I think the rejection of Stede and the way he does things based in the toxic masculinity could be viewed as a form of homophobia yes I just personally in the case of Izzy do not see it as being rooted in him being actively homophobic,a perpetuation of a toxic masculine homophobic society maybe, and we could go into a big conversation about it forever lol.

But my original point was that that specific scene that's been referenced did not prove Izzy to be homophobic and it seems like a good chunk of people misinterpreted what was going on and took it as evidence as to why is he is actively homophobic therefore should not be enjoyed as a character.

But in no way his Izzy invent homophobia in 1717 lmaooooo, it's definitely alluded to being a real part of society in the show