#baela's characterization

[maglors-grief]

Can they please start giving Baela and Rhaena some lines this season 😭 They really didn't let them say one thing in s2e1, even though Lucerys was Rhaena's betrothed!! They said so little in season 1 that I can't even remember any quotes from them. This show has wronged so many characters and Baela and Rhaena are at the top of that list.

[navree]

The Velaryons siding with Team Black gets even more ridiculous when you consider that Daemon threw a tantrum (shocker) around the time of the Great Council of 101 AC when Rhaenys was even considered as a candidate opposing Viserys. This fool allegedly gathered together enough resources in preparation to rebel against the crown if it looked like Rhaenys would be selected as heir apparent instead of heir presumptive. Why she would ever forget something like that and allow Laena anywhere near Daemon is beyond my understanding.

None of the Velaryons should be on Team Black at all.

Corlys doesn't particularly like Viserys at all and has been routinely disrespected by him, not just in the matter of being purposefully led on with regards to the Laena marriage but even in how he's treated in Council. He's also absolutely got a grudge about Rhaenys not being on the throne and feeling shafted as a result, not to mention Daemon summarily executed a member of his family without trial, and the disrespect shown to his House should be enough to at least want him to remain neutral.

Rhaenys absolutely doesn't like Rhaenyra, she was deeply antagonistic towards her the second she was proclaimed heir (out of jealousy I guess????) and was also convinced that it wouldn't work out. Not to mention, even beyond how she was treated with the Great Council, look at her kids. Daemon kept Laena away from her family for a good number of years and then she died, only to behave like an ass at her funeral and get married well before was considered appropriate. Rhaenyra "disrespected" Laenor with the Harwin Strong affair and their children, which we know Rhaenys was aware of because she brings it up to Corlys. And she thinks Rhaenyra killed Laenor to marry Daemon, because Rhaenyra has deliberately made it look like she had Laenor murdered, which alone gives her every right to hate Rhaenyra until the end of time. There's no way she would agree to betrothing her granddaughters to the Strongs, there's no way she'd go to Rhaenyra's side in the civil war she predicted just because Rhaenyra hadn't burned Dragonstone down in twelve hours, honestly the character they've written likely should have agreed to Alicent's proposals because that whole "we don't rule ourselves but heavily influence those that do and wield power that way" is literally what she already does with Corlys.

Baela, again, shouldn't be on board with Team Black either. Like I said, she was shunted off to Driftmark because Daemon the Targaryen supremacist wanted to devote all his time and energy to his pureblood Targaryen marriage and subsequent pureblood Targaryen children at the expense of his daughters. And while on Driftmark, she watches Rhaenys rule it alone, act as Lord of the Tides herself. And I'm meant to think she never once thought about how Driftmark should have been Laena's by rights, as Corlys's eldest, and thus her's by rights, as Laena's eldest? She's fine being a consort, a position with considerably less power, to Jace, who she does not know at all because she's spent all her time in either Pentos or Driftmark, while her inheritance, her rights, get passed not even to her little sister, but to some kid who isn't even Laenor's? No, why should she be on board with that after her treatment and how she's been raised? Even if she doesn't have any issues with Rhaenyra herself, the disrespect shown to her and her family by Rhaenyra's faction isn't something she should look past.

Rhaena meanwhile has been treated apparently like shit by Daemon her entire life, all because she didn't have a dragon (and because Daemon is a giant flaming asshole). And like her sister, she has to settle for being a consort, but even worse, to someone who, according to the laws of their country, has absolutely no right to the inheritance he's getting, which should be either her sister's or her's. Again, even if there's no issue with Rhaenyra on Rhaena's end, the treatment from Rhaenyra's allies like Viserys and Daemon is bad enough that it should give her pause. Plus, both Rhaena and Baela were dragged to watch their father get immediately remarried to someone else after their mother just died, that doesn't engender much love towards him or his new wife, who they had only met like two days ago.

None of the Velaryons should support Team Black at all, because the treatment they've received from people who were firmly on board with Rhaenyra's succession (or at least came on board eventually) has been atrocious since Rhaenys was first denied the Iron Throne all those years ago. And you might say "but that's petty why can't they just supported Rhaenyra because of feminism", but 1) feminism does not exist in Westeros, the concept of a movement towards female empowerement and equal treatment does not exist in this country or in the minds of its people, everything is on a case by case basis which is why Rhaenyra herself keeps to male dominated primogeniture when dealing with issues of succession 2) yeah it's petty and selfish, but this is a dynastic struggle between one (1) family. None of them are in this for altruistic reasons, everyone's looking out for themselves and are motivated by their emotions and their desires, not any lofty goals or ambitions. Everyone is selfish here, the Velaryons have the right to be selfish too especially to advance their own self interests.

[atopvisenyashill]

it could be the writing not the casting but rhaenys and baela are not headstrong and wild enough

it’s 100% the writing, I think they suffer from like, the same thing indira varma and gemma whelan or even oona chaplin did which is that they have good casting for the ACTUAL CHARACTER but the writing is so bad so you’re listening to ellaria hiss at doran about how dorne will not be ruled by weak men and you’re like “what the fuck just happened.”

like the fact that iirc it was daemon in the original script who has to hold baela back from decking Aemond during the family dinner but they changed it in the show, or they jusr straight up don’t even FOCUS THE CAMERA on rhaena during a scene where she’s just got engaged and is clearly very pleased by the match like……smh. really racebent the dragon twins so they could shuffle them off to the side and nevermind that they are important political players after the war, or that rhaena is the last dragon rider (until dany).

[bohemian-nights]

It's time for people to accept that Daemon is a terrible father, and it's ok lol

There is no denying he’s a sh*tty father and he’s sh*tty in ways that don’t even make sense.

How do you hate the Targtowers, you have an excuse to attack them, and yet you sit back and watch your underage daughter being harassed by a creepy pervert. Did the show forget that Baela indeed is his biological daughter? Even if he’s sh*tty he should still want to defend her because of his own pride and hate. He does nothing and it pisses me off.

[alicentsaegon]

Wish I lived in the magical alternate reality where Team Green is portrayed favorably and the writers are biased for them, like Team Black fans claims they are

[swanyras]

a scene we should have actually got! instead they gave us feetfinder.com, teen aegon jerking off, and the continuous addition of unnecessary brutality against women 😓

BAELA TARGARYEN in HOUSE OF THE DRAGON Dialogue from the Season 1 Deleted Scene

[normalbrothers]

hotd episode had lots of moments i liked some were a little ??? to me, but also i have to rewatch with subtitles + there needs to be more than one episode out for me to form an opinion on a season anyway (like yk when it's completed)

[addamvelaryon]

Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason Corlys was turned into a clueless NPC whose importance is heavily diminished from the source material. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason Laena, Laenor and Addam all had their characterization, relationships and storylines warped in service of other characters. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason characters from the books had their existence erased. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason we got several new OCs whose storylines are fleshed out. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason Nettles’ storyline has been divided amongst the other characters. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason Daeron was retconned out of existence so that his family doesn’t even mention him, before being shoehorned back into existence with a diminished role. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason Criston is obsessed with having relationships with women despite his strict adherence to maintaining his honor. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason he claims that Blood & Cheese was propaganda created by Alicent. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason Alicent doesn’t care about the Green cause and is very willing to sacrifice her family for a crumb of Rhaenyra’s affections. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason Helaena doesn’t care about her children getting hurt and is very ready to get over it. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason Rhaena has no personality beyond her lack of a dragon. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason Alyn has no personality beyond his lack of a father. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason Baela’s only purpose is to give a pep talk to other characters. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason Daemon killed Rhea and raises a hand to Rhaenyra, in the show, though that never happened in the book. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is why Daemon mistreated Laena and now ignores Baela & Rhaena. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason Rhaenys acts like a preacher of peace. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason Aegon regularly bullies Aemond and why Aemond committed treason against Aegon. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason characters’ ages are all over the place. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason characters’ personalities are not consistent over the course of two seasons. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason Rhaenyra is not simply a woman fighting for her birthright but a fanatical cult leader who believes herself to have a divine destiny. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason he won’t let Rhaenyra or Alicent commit to the war, despite their family members dying one after another. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason he created a contrived plot where Rhaenicent have secret meetings with each other. Ryan Condal’s practical issues is the reason the showrunner insists that the succession war that tore a family apart is actually about two old friends struggling to get back to each other.

[whateverthought]

Oh, House of The Dragon is a feminist show? Team Black is a feminist team?

They wrote out Nettles, a canon black woman. They threw away Rhaena's storyline and subsequent characterization. They wrote out her storyline and replaced it with the canon black woman's storyline. Because Rhaena's a black woman in the show? Are they the same now? Because women's stories are interchangeable?

Rhaenyra has spent 5 episodes making no decisions during a War, they changed her grief from ugly and volatile and brutal to the more appropriate sad and weepy, as all good mothers should be.

They changed Laena's death so they can set a precedent for how honorable Rhaenyra's will be. To prop up a white woman. Why is her death not her own?

Daemon kills his wife, who he calls misogynist names constantly, by his own hand. No plausible deniability, no assassins, he's there. Why did they show it? A woman's death that was only implied to be his fault in the books, but they had to portray a woman's death. What did it accomplish? What did I have to see so bad? Is this Domestic Violence?

Both Daemon and Rhaenyra have sex on the day of Laena's funeral, with her family in the building, including her grieving daughters. And then they get married that week. That was his wife, mother of his children, someone whose death brought him to tears. Even if Rhaenyra isn't friends with her in the show canon, she should have some respect for this woman. Do they not honor the dead in Westeros? Do they not have mourning periods? Religion or not, her body was closer to the castle than it was the bottom of the sea. Why did she have three actresses? Why did she have an extra growth spurt? Why was her adult actress significantly older than both Alicente and Rhaenyra's? Wasn't she younger?

Why does Baela only support Jacaerys but not her sister? Why does Baela talk about Rhaenys but not her mother? Because her father has a new wife? Why does Rhaenyra care if Helaena was hurt or scarred by Jaehaerys death when they don't interact at all? Because she's a mother too? Does that make her saintly now? Was Rhaenys not a mother when she wanted Laenor dead? At his sister's, her daughter's funeral. How does she know Helaena is an innocent? How can Rhaenyra be ambitious enough for the throne, how can Alicente be a silver-tongued usurper but not Helaena? Why doesn't Rhaenyra have female friendships? Why are all her female conversations only about making her queen and the war? No wonder people ship Alicente/Rhaenyra

[horizon-verizon]

Corlys was likely willing to settle for Luke as heir because he was already betrothed to Rhaena.

Before there's a misunderstanding, I'm taking this to mean that bc Rhaena is of his blood through Laena AND bc she is of House Targaryen "officially" (he wants to be close to the crown and Daemon is married to Rhaenyra...Rhaena who has been growing up with this pair since they married very soon after her own mother's death before Rhaena even turned 3-4, like Daemon losing Alyssa when he was 2-4 and maybe having no very little memory of her) and thus Corlys was okay to go along with Luke being his heir but not particularly thrilled about it like Viserys was adamant about Rhaenyra over Aegon.

Because some might take this to mean that he disliked the boys or was held against his will, when the situation is more nuanced and he definitely did have some will and leverage in some instances.

Rhaenyra doesn’t need to use violence to force Corlys’ decision about his heir.

Before more misunderstandings from others, I doubt he would have taken Vaemond's challenge as opportunity to name Vaemond as his heir even if Vaemond was of his blood by being his nephew. Which apart from him making the very dumb decision of openly calling R's sons bastards showing how much of a liability Vaemond was to him and his house and Corlys' own ambitions to be close to the throne, would explain why he was fine relatively with Luke being his heir but preferring someone a lot closer to himself either through him or his son, by name or by "real" blood. I think he wasn't necessarily thrilled about Luke being his heir, either.

Rhaenyra wasn't using force/violence against Corlys bec she couldn't get away with that if she tried, I think she was being insistent and alarmed when she pressed Corlys in his sickbed. She'd definitely seriosuly offend Corlys, as OP states above why, she couldn't afford to do. Plus, Rhaenys would have never allowed such a thing and we know her own character, even if Daemon was behind Rhaenyra with his own dragon. They couldn't afford to lose Rhaenys' support, either. Finally, it wouldn't be either a good look on her to press the leader/heir-maker of another house or try to take advantage while they are sick.

("A Question of Succession")

Rhaenyra had Vaemond killed under the reasoning of his naming her kids bastards explicitly. And yes, of course, it was a way to get rid of competitors for her sons, but mainly the fact that she and his body parts fed to Syrax like how the Queen Dowager Rhaena had her husband Androw Farman's corpse fed to Dreamfyre after he killed all her friends shows that emotion was the leading drive in Rhaenyra's dealing with the Driftmark succession even, her responsein trying to keep her sons and herself safe. Vaemond presented the opportunity once he called her kids bastards in the maybe strategic or tactical point and she maybe could had the thought of her sons benefiting from the act during or after Vaemond's execution/Syrax meal, but it's apparent she acted swiftly, was caught off guard and was not as calculating as one might think. She was already also alarmed by Corlys possibly passing without assuring her son's place and thus more security. Again, another thing others might misunderstand.

While it may have made Rhaenyra look evil and tyrannical--and thus bad for her and her sons' image to other [privileged male] lords (further showing it wasn't that calculated a response) for how violent it was esp the Syrax bit--it also was in still under the declaration the king/her father already made about people who dared tried to call the boys bastards would be executed.

This is all why she doled out violence against Vaemond but not Corlys, Vaemond who was not someone either Corlys nor Rhaenyra had any strong affection, attachment, benefit before or after his "charge", or any other allyship. And again, can't really blame her; Vaemond made clear he was her and her sons' enemy and a danger to them all. She's had years to defend herself and her sons. Goes to show the crap about this system.

House Velaryon follows Andal succession.

True, but I also think that if a house head wanted to, he/they/she can make the choice to choose someone with their name and/or blood despite those laws as it has been done many times before both outside of a war context and in peacetime. We've had Lannisters choose to have a whole different other man not of their house to become the head through marriage to a Lannister woman, for example. Westerosi lords & anyone who has the control tend to do what they think they can do and are free to do according to circumstances. There's really not that much of a persistent authority that could make them choose a different successor, more so rivals for domination, of which Corlys didn't have much. I think he preferred to go by the Andal customs of succession bec it is tradition, he's traditional while being cunning and flexible when he feels the need, and he didn't want to induce as much trouble for imself, house, and the ruling Targs with naming an unconventional/non-secure candidate in as far as from Visery's example as possible. Like OP states, he really only could have Luke as a possible heir bc he'd be endangering his own prospects and inviitng Laenor being called a cuckold, which reflects badly on him and the house itself. Possibly even *gasp* have the "taint" of homosexuality. He's got a certain rep he wanted to maintain.

So Corlys' will is very much not a passive thing here in determing hos the house does its succession thing. it was by Corlys' will that the house follows the succession "laws"/customs of the Andals at this time of history and the story. Other lords before and after him could act differently if they had room and the will.

Okay so Baela can’t get Driftmark because she is of blood and fire, as she tells Corlys and he accepts this reasoning. “Driftmark must go to salt and sea.” Then how come Corlys was okay with Luke as his heir but Luke wasn’t salt and sea. Corlys also doesn’t want Joffrey as his heir but Joffrey is the same age now as Luke was when Corlys first spoke of him inheriting Driftmark (s1xe7). Corlys tried to kill himself in the following episodes when he went to fight in the Stepstones, so he was okay with leaving Driftmark without an heir of salt and sea. But now he’s not okay all of a sudden.

You do realize that Corlys, as he exists in the show, is just there to prop up other characters, right? Trying to find any deeper meaning behind his actions is a lost cause.

HOTD changed many aspects of the Driftmark succession. In the book, Corlys did not particularly want Luke as his heir. Rhaenyra had to force the issue and she proved that she was willing to have people killed/maimed if they opposed her. Corlys was likely willing to settle for Luke as heir because he was already betrothed to Rhaena. Later, when Luke dies and Joffrey becomes heir, Corlys is already making plans to have Joffrey replaced by his own blood. Joffrey is betrothed to a Manderly girl, and betrothals are not easily broken, so he can’t just be betrothed to Rhaena now. Which is why Corlys proceeds to appoint another heir, who is actually of his blood. F&B never officially referred to Luke as Corlys’ heir (compared to the other heirs to Driftmark), probably because the situation was not so easily accepted by Corlys. Like I’ve said before, Corlys considers being a Velaryon and being his heir as two separate things.

In the show, Corlys accepted Luke as heir from the beginning, even before the betrothal with Rhaena had been made (the show scene is inspired by a book scene between Jace & Viserys). Rhaenyra doesn’t need to use violence to force Corlys’ decision about his heir. The show portrayed Corlys as a person who doesn’t really have a problem with his heir not being of his blood in season one. The events of season one were portrayed in such a way to keep Rhaenyra’s hands clean. But now Corlys’ actions in season two don’t match up with his actions in season one because of the various changes that have been made.

The reason Baela and Rhaena were never considered for Corlys’ heirs in the book is that legally they can never inherit Driftmark while Rhaenyra’s Velaryon sons live. Laenor was the heir to Driftmark. So naturally, his sons will be heirs after him. Then it will be Laena. After her, it will be her daughters. Once Laenor and Laena die, the matter comes down to their children. There is no situation in which either Baela or Rhaena could be named heirs to Driftmark ahead of the boys, especially if one of the boys (Luke) is older (it’s not like the situation with Rhaenyra versus Aegon, where Rhaenyra is older). If the Dragon Twins were named heirs ahead of Rhaenyra’s sons, it would completely expose that the boys are illegitimate (why is Lord Velaryon randomly making his granddaughter heir ahead of his grandson?). Everyone would know and it would create a huge scandal. Laenor would be considered a cuckold publicly. It also makes house Velaryon lose any potential ties to the Iron Throne. King Viserys would either have to start executing Rhaenyra & her sons for high treason or he would start targeting Corlys and his family if they dared to expose Rhaenyra (just look at what happened to Vaemond and his family). Either way, the situation would get ugly. So of course, Corlys has to play along with the ruse. He doesn’t attempt to change the line of succession at that point and is willing to settle for Luke because it at least serves his family’s interests. During the war, Corlys has the upper hand over Rhaenyra, so he can attempt to change the succession accordingly.

There’s a reason why Corlys later passes Addam & Alyn as Laenor’s bastards instead of acknowledging that he is the one who fathered them. There isn’t anything stopping Corlys from saying he’s the father. At the time, Rhaenys is dead so Corlys has nothing to be afraid of. But Corlys’ intention is to change the succession to favour his own blood and the only way to do that is to pass Addam & Alyn off as Laenor’s sons instead.

House Velaryon follows Andal succession. Laenor’s sons (Jace/Luke/Joffrey) come before Laenor’s nieces (Baela/Rhaena). Laenor’s brothers (Addam/Alyn) come very last. By passing Addam & Alyn off as Laenor’s sons, and by virtue of them being older than Joffrey, they are ahead in the line of succession. And when the succession issue has been resolved as Corlys sees fit, there would be no further reason to change it to make either Baela or Rhaena the heir.

It’s easy enough for Corlys to make Addam his heir over Joffrey in the book because of the way the Red Sowing is structured. Corlys took part in planning that with Jace. It was said that whoever claimed a dragon would be honoured by being ennobled. So it’s not particularly a suspicious situation for Corlys to act at this point. Once Addam succeeded in claiming a dragon, Corlys can “reward” him by naming him heir to Driftmark. Rhaenyra needs Corlys on her side, since he’s providing the majority of her army, so she has to accept the situation with Addam (even if it means passing over her own son, Joffrey). Jace supports him in this decision because he was making active efforts to appease Corlys to keep him on their side.

The show complicated matters with all the changes it made in season one, and now season two. If HOTD had portrayed Corlys more similar to his book counterpart (aka reluctant to accept Luke as heir in the beginning), then there wouldn’t be as much confusion about Corlys now being reluctant to accept Joffrey as heir. So long as Laenor’s sons exist, Baela and Rhaena were never going to be considered as heirs to the Driftwood Throne.

[rhaenin-time]

One of the reasons Baela and Rhaena don't feel distinct from one another or fleshed out like their book counterparts, is because the book first parallels Baela with Daemon to define her, and then further characterizes both girls by contrasting them against one another. By distancing them both from Daemon, HotD removes that core kernel of characterization. So they clumsily try to solve this by replacing Daemon’s influence with Laena's, which only serves to further throw off all the characterizations.

I mean, Baela's characterization is so tied to Daemon in a way that, in their circumstances, implies a close connection. And the way they tried to change key traits of Baela, Daemon, and their connection that are tied to the core of their characters, traits that are important to their upcoming actions, is so blatant that I can just leave this here without explaining.

One day, I will explain further. For now, I just think it's fascinating how must this says even if I say nothing.

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I mean the writers know where we're headed. And it's not like they haven't followed that characterization otherwise.

So why does this matter? Why does it feel "off" when they distance Baela from Daemon? Why do the changes not feel "true?"

Play me out, Tuvok:

[queenvhagar]

https://www.tvinsider.com/1146698/house-of-the-dragon-season-2-finale-ending-explained-rhaenyra-alicent/?srsltid=AfmBOoqdQdIbMFTMUBy1NeTmKjtwi291Uj-QHYNCpct-Y5TGxCxK_Ypp

“Alicent is left with nothing and without the person she wants with her most”... Can we FINALLY stop pretending that Alicent’s main reason for doing what she did is to protect Helaena ?

Congrats Rhaenicent stans, Alicent officially became a Satellite Love Interest. The only real characterization that she receives is the fact that she’s obsessed with her former childhood friend and her ONLY desire is to be with her. Literally no action, thought or monologue in the series is in no way not connected, even a little, to please and/or become more intimate with Rhaenyra.

Unfortunately House of the Dragon perpetuates more than one harmful trope when it comes to writing women on the show. Some characters like Alicent now, following the finale and the abandonment of her family, and even Baela, who is in the majority of her scenes this season shown in interactions with her love interest (the Moondancer chase and Corlys scene the exceptions), seem to dance dangerously close to the Satellite Love Interest trope:

A key passage that I found really connects this to these characters: "The test, of course, is to ask, "What does this person do when they're not being a love interest?" If it's hard to answer, you probably have this.

Both Alicent and Baela are written around their love interests. All of Alicent's motivations come back to Rhaenyra. Despite her being in the Sept, she lets her go. She advocates for inaction when it comes to action in the war with Rhaenyra. She isolates from her family and eventually abandons them to reunite with Rhaenyra and seek her forgiveness. Any realistic characterization or motivation she could have had as an independent character in this specific context are lost in favor of her being the (former) love interest. As for Baela, many of her scenes are with Jace talking about his struggles or interests. Even in one of the first scenes she has following the death of Rhaenys, the woman who raised her, Baela comforts Jace for something he is going through and not vice versa. She isn't shown to grieve her grandmother, but to support Jace's feelings of inadequacy and inaction. In other scenes, she's asking him about his family or admonishing him for being upset about a valid concern of his, but there is little that Baela is allowed to do or show outside of being Jace's love interest. Outside of loving Jace, who is Baela allowed to be?

All of this is connected to another classic trope that the show perpetuates:

The trope is summed up in this passage, and for those critical of House of the Dragon's characterization of men and women onscreen, this will sound all too familiar: "This trope is rooted in the female/male = passive/active dichotomy. Essentially, it's the idea men are expected to be out doing things, but women are expected to just sit there looking pretty, emotionally reacting to events, and avoiding actions."

In season 2, men drive the plot, and women react to it. However, the show attempts to be clever about their perpetuation of this trope by assigning value to the action. The men who act and drive the plot are violent, self-centered, and/or incompetent in doing so, while the women who react are level-headed, reasonable, and peace-loving. Nonetheless, this kind of writing does nothing but create a kind of gender essentialism that harms the characters by oversimplifying their motivations and limiting their characterization. The writers are simply reusing outdated, sexist tropes and attempting to present it to viewers as peak feminist storytelling, and it's a disservice to the audience, the actors, the production, and the original source material and its author, who actively challenged the idea of passive female characters by filling his stories with complex and ambitious women with competing motivations.

[flamingtwiggy]

HoTD ABOverse Jacegan-centric fic idea.

I cannot write a full fanfic for the life of me because my grammar is shit and there’d be so much repetition, and I don’t want to give out crap. But I’ll share this idea out because I want it out of my head.

(Notable) Alphas:

Viserys I Targaryen

Rhaenyra Targaryen

Harwin Strong

Daemon Targaryen

Cregan Stark (b. 108 AC; presented at age 11)

Rhaenys Targaryen

Baela Targaryen (b. 116 AC; presented at age 12)

Aegon II Targaryen (b. 106 AC; presented at age 12)

Aemond Targeryen (b. 110 AC; presented at age 10)

Joffrey Targaryen (b. 117 AC; presented at age 12)

(Notable) Betas:

Corlys Velaryon

Laenor Velaryon

Criston Cole

Otto Hightower

Larys Strong

(Notable) Omegas:

Alicent Hightower

Helaena Targaryen (b. 109 AC; presented at age 10)

Daeron Targaryen (b. 114 AC; presented at age 12)

Jacaerys Targaryen-Strong (b. late 114 AC; presented at age 14)

Lucerys Velaryon (b. late 115 AC; presented at age 15)

Laena Velaryon

Rhaena Targaryen (b. 116 AC; presented at age 12)

Arra Norrey (b. ~116 AC; Cregan Stark’s first mate; presented at age 10)

Unpresented (because they’re children):

Viserys II Targaryen

Aegon III Targaryen

Jaehaerys Targaryen

Jaehaera Targaryen

Rickon Stark

Valyrian Alphas and Omegas are rare, a class where the old Valyrians would (with magic at the time) change their sexes accordingly to match the ideal parts of their presentation (Alphas with cocks, Omegas with cunts). The change is most painful for a male Valyrian Omega, as it often involves castration and months-long process of the body developing a womb and vaginal productive system. The change often made it easier for male omegas to handle birthing, and for female alphas to bond with and mate male omegas.

Jacaerys is a Valyrian Omega. He spent nearly half a year a-bed during his presentation.

Baela is a Valyrian Alpha, Daemon’s particular pride and joy.

Alpha-Omega relationships are most ideal, as well as Alpha-Alpha. Omega-Omega is not common. The only pairing that is subject to criticism and often humiliation is Beta-Omega.

True or Fated bond mates exist, but are rarely encountered (among high-folk mostly because arranged marriages and such). Characterized by an irresistible draw to each other, and the inability to mate with any other if they’ve met their fated mate. Any pre-existing bonds are often rejected and dissolved (by magic ABO happenings). Cregan and Jacaerys are one such pair, of course.

Side note: I cannot believe that while looking up when all the characters were born, that Arra Norrey was apparently born sometime before 116 AC. Jacaerys was born late 114 AC, so if we go by that reference of age, Arra may have been a child bride. Then again, she was said to be Cregan’s childhood best friend, and Cregan is about 6 years older than Jace.

Also, these ages are so screwed, it’s a whole mental map trying to set everything so they don’t conflict with times and each other ages. :P Also show timeline does not match book timeline, so that adds another hiccup. At this point, I’m basically mix-and-matching.

Basic Plot Points:

What if Rhaenyra did worry about what her first pregnancy with Harwin’s child that resulted in Jace, about his looks? And she grew so worried and disappointed when he did inherit Harwin’s colorings that she gave him away out of desperation.

A few days after Jacaerys’ birth, when rumors grew of Rhaenyra’s infidelity to Laenor, Rhaenyra arranged to have Jacaerys “kidnapped” or “killed” and one of her ladies-in-waiting took the babe away from the Keep and gave him to a random woman on the street, who turned out to be one of the whores of the Street of Silk. Could be Mysaria. Vermax had hatched and bonded with Jace, so Mysaria is stuck with a baby and his dragon.

Despite her disapproval of Rhaenyra’s affair with Harwin Strong resulting in a child, Alicent found it more insulting and repulsive that Rhaenyra obviously arranged the disappearance of her first-born. It grew more bothersome when Rhaenyra continued the affair and produced Lucerys and Joffrey, and kept them to avoid anymore suspicion that she was getting rid of her bastards. Rhaenyra was also weighed with the guilt of giving away her first baby boy, and heavily regretted it after experiencing the joys of motherhood with Lucerys.

Time skips galore to Laena’s death and funeral, where Aemond bonds with Vhagar. On the joy ride that is his first flight, he encounters Jace riding Vermax, but he doesn’t get to speak with him. He doesn’t mention the encounter to anyone, especially after Lucerys, Baela, and Rhaena confronted him about Vhagar and he loses his eye. When he’s better, he investigates Jace and Vermax, and they become close friends over a few weeks. Aemond is the one to teach Jacaerys High Valyrian, starting with basic dragon commands.

Alicent eventually finds out about Jacaerys and his parentage, she and Otto resolve to foster him in the Keep, to one day use to their advantage. They manage to manipulate a sickly Viserys into legitimizing Jacaerys as a Targaryen and Lord Strong of Harrenhal, all while keeping the news from reaching Rhaenyra on Dragonstone. This is around 126 AC.

(Current) Titles:

Prince Jacaerys Targaryen, Lord Strong of Harrenhal

Prince Lucerys Velaryon, Heir to Dragonstone

Prince Joffrey Velaryon, Heir to Driftmark

Lady Baela Targaryen

Lady Rhaena Targaryen

Lord Cregan Stark of Winterfell

According to the timeline I set, it should be about 128 AC when Jacaerys presents as an omega while he is living at and helping restore Harrenhal. Upon receiving a raven about his falling ill while presenting and 3 months passing since Jacaerys last was conscious, Aemond took residence at Harrenhal and vigilantly protected him. This is also the year that Arra Norrey canonically dies while giving birth to Rickon Stark.

Baela and Rhaena present in 128 AC as well.

Around 129-130 AC, Lucerys Velaryon presents as an omega, and Joffrey as an alpha. Viserys hosts a tourney in their honor, celebrating the presentation of his favored grandchildren (miffing Alicent as there was no such celebration held for her own children). Rhaenyra and Daemon convince Viserys to invite among the lords, Cregan Stark, after learning of his recent widowing in the hopes that they can secure an alliance with the North by betrothing Lucerys to Cregan.

The hosts traveling from the North are welcomed midway at a near-completely renovated Harrenhal by Jacaerys and Aemond. They spend a day resting, and those who do not wish to rest are invited to join a small hunting party with Jacaerys leading. Vermax is about as big as Syrax, having grown more free-range at Harrenhal than most dragons. Jacaerys bonds with many of the knights and lords in the hunting party, but gets along the most with Cregan.

Upon arriving at King’s Landing, the host of Harrenhal, including Aemond and Jacaerys, accompany that of the houses of the North. Jacaerys and Aemond are the last announced after Cregan Stark, having landed Vhagar and Vermax together on the beach, and this is the first time Rhaenyra hears of Jacaerys.

Jacaerys knows that Rhaenyra is his mother, and he holds resentment towards her. At some point during the festivities, he publicly or privately confronts Rhaenyra with the show!canon monologue:

“Did you think I would have dark hair? When you took Harwin Strong into your bed, did you think I might favor him, or did it not cross your mind?”

Rhaenyra attempts to calm him and show that she regrets her past decision heavily, but Jacaerys cannot forgive her for the years of anguish he went through without his true mother. Much of his resentment lies in that after abandoning him, she went on to have two more children just like him.

Meanwhile, Lucerys attempts to bond with Cregan, driven by Daemon and Rhaenyra’s suggestion for him to consider the Lord of Winterfell as a possible mate. He is constantly in the company of Baela, Rhaena, and Joffrey as they observe all the knights and lords. Daeron Targaryen is also present, and he is Lucerys’ rival for Cregan Stark’s attentions.

The relationship between Jacaerys and Lucerys is bitter. Lucerys sees Jacaerys as a threat to him in every facet of his life, and he cannot believe that Jacaerys may be his older brother who his mother abandoned. Jace being legitimized as the son of Rhaenyra and Harwin poses a threat to Lucerys and Joffrey, as it casts a heavier shadow onto the boys. And Rhaenyra refuses to publicly acknowledge Jacaerys as her own at the expense of Lucerys and Joffrey. As a result, he is antagonistic towards Jace, and his closest friends Baela, Rhaena, and Joffrey support him. He is also slightly scared of Jace because wherever he is, Aemond is sure to be close by.

Daeron and Jacaerys aren’t necessarily friends as Jace is with the rest of Daeron’s siblings, but they aren’t “enemies” like Luke and Jace. He manages to spy upon Cregan and Jace, and realizes that he and Lucerys have no chance at Cregan, so he backs off seriously considering him as a mate. He does continue to rile Lucerys up with taunts, because he finds it funny and cute, in an odd way.

The highlight of the tourney is the crowning of the Queen of Love and Beauty, which is an honor for the tourney champion to bestow to a lady or omega of their choosing. Despite being a lord, Cregan is known as one of the best swordsman of Westeros, therefore his participation is expected. It becomes rumored to all attending that either Prince Lucerys Velaryon or Prince Daeron Targaryen are expectant to be crowned by the lord, and their respective mothers Rhaenyra and Alicent may betroth their omega son to the lord as a result. It comes as a surprise to most of the royal family when Cregan crowns Prince Jacaerys instead (except for Aemond and Helaena because they are his closest friends, and Helaena could sort of tell with her dream-seer powers; Aegon bluntly states that it was obvious to anyone not lovesick for Stark).

Cregan officially courts Jacaerys, and they decide to marry/mate any or all of three ways: by the Old Gods, respecting Cregan’s heritage; the Faith of the Seven, respecting Jacaerys’ beliefs; and the Old Valyrian tradition, respecting Jacaerys’ heritage as a Targaryen.

Side note: An alternative and more dramatic take to this is Daemon and Rhaenyra successfully arranging with Viserys for Cregan to mate with Lucerys after the tourney, but frustrated and driven to his wits end, Cregan mates Jacaerys under the Weirwood tree the night before the last day of the tourney, during a feast/dance. Rhaenyra tries to resolve this by proposing Cregan follow Aegon I’s example and mate Lucerys for duty while keeping Jacaerys for love. The issue is that once an alpha takes his true omega, attempting to claim another tends to get rather bloody. Historically, most alphas or omegas tend to be torn apart by both the alpha and their true mate if they try. And also, Cregan did not want to have two or more mates. As he tells Rhaenyra “You would submit your son to an empty life. I would never love him as I love my Prince Jacaerys. I would never bed him, not even for duty. He would waste away in the cold of the North, constantly longing for a better life til his dying day.”

A couple of tiny and side moments:

Jacaerys and Mysaria being mother and son, because she raised him for a bit before he was discovered by Alicent.

Jacaerys wears some extravagant and more…revealing outfits than in the show. May be influenced by being raised in a brothel house…also he is an omega so they do have a bit more freedom in dressing pretty. Jacaerys is a very beautiful omega, basically.

Cregan and Jace have some training battles, because Jace is also a fighter and a Lord, so he must know how to fight. Cregan appreciates that Jacaerys is not a dainty and demure omega; he proves to have a raging fire that can conquer the coldest of winters in the North.

Jace and Daemon do not like each other. Daemon despises Jace’s very existence because his position threatens Rhaenyra’s claim as well as their little peace. And he gets in the way of everything. And the Strong host just loves messing with Daemon and humbling, as is show canon. Simon Strong is definitely with Jacaerys the entire time of the tourney.

Jace and Baela would’ve definitely been betrothed were they not sort of enemies on circumstance. However, my stance on incest is that I don’t support it, not even slightly. So I don’t see any potential for a threesome between Jace, Baela, and Cregan.

Sara Snow may be a part of Cregan’s party in tourney, if she’s not taking care of Rickon in the North. And if she is, Cregan asked her to craft the crown of flowers that he gives to Jace. It’s this crown of flowers that has all the omegas and ladies attending the tourney bumbling with excitement that they might be on the receiving end of it.

Corlys and Rhaenys become more upset at the evidence that Jacaerys, and by extension Lucerys and Joffrey, are not true Velaryons. Rhaenys always firmly believed Rhaenyra got rid of Jacaerys because he was not Laenor’s, so when it was officially announced, she was done. The only saving grace is that Baela and Rhaena are definitely Laena’s, and they may or may not be betrothed to Lucerys and Joffrey respectively…

Lucerys eventually accepts that his mother screwed them all over and sowed the seeds they reap. Moreover, he reconciles with Jacaerys and learns how to be a younger brother. Aemond still creeps him out by lurking in the shadows.

End Notes:

I am not TG, and I do cast a dark light on Rhaenyra and Lucerys especially with this narrative, but I needed some drama with it. Anyways, I’m glad I could blurb this out to stop thinking about it so much. Sorry I won’t be writing a full fic to anyone who would be interested in reading it.

[thevelaryons]

Prince Jacaerys x Baela don’t call my attention as much as other pairings for them. Baela’s personality is totally unique and takes a blow from not being allowed to be more than a wife for him. I want to know your thoughts on Baela’s best ship and Jacaerys’s best ships. I don’t see that love being shown as strongly as the other examples we have for couples. I haven’t finished F&B yet but I do know how this ends.

I think it depends on which canon you are looking at for Baela. In the show version, Baela is the love interest and in the book version, Baela is a character who has love interests.

Showverse Jacaela made the dynamic a lot more equal than it was in the book. Baela is treated as Jace’s partner in everything. They are meant to be perceived as a romance. Though it does come at the expense of Baela’s own personality. She’s not the rough, flirtatious tomboy of Fire & Blood but more of a softspoken lady always ready to support Jace (just as he is there to support her). Though the writers clearly favour building up Jace more, hence scenes of Baela expressing her frustrations about her father are used to prop up Jace’s characterization and his own daddy issues. I’d say majority of show!Jacaela scenes are about Jace wanting to prove himself/Jace’s troubles about bastards/Jace’s position as heir, with Baela always being the love interest at his side.

Bookverse Jacaela is quite different. In fact, Jacaela didn’t even really exist as a ship until HOTD because the dynamic comes off less romantic in the book. If it’s a romance, then it’s a rather lacklustre one:

Lady Rhaena’s twin, Baela, remained on Dragonstone. Long betrothed to Prince Jacaerys, she refused to leave him, insisting that she would fight beside him on her own dragon…though Moondancer was too small to bear her weight. Though Baela also announced her intent to marry Jace at once, no wedding was ever held. Munkun says the prince did not wish to wed until the war was over, whilst Mushroom claims Jacaerys was already married to Sara Snow, the mysterious bastard girl from Winterfell.

Once Jace returned from the North, and took up control of the castle as Prince of Dragonstone, Baela expressed her wish to marry him. I’ve said before that I see this as Baela asserting herself as Jace’s consort and future queen (as Daemon’s mini me, she is acting as her father would to assert himself in the family through marriage). But the fact that Jace didn’t fulfill Baela’s wish speaks volumes. Even Jaehaerys married Alysanne when she asked it of him. They had a private ceremony then in the future they had a grander one when they made their relationship public (they also waited years to consummate until they were ready). Jace’s own brother, Aegon, doesn’t consummate his marriage with Daenaera until many years later. So Jace could’ve married Baela and then in the future once the war is over, they would have a larger wedding + consummation. There being no wedding at all seems like a significant detail, otherwise GRRM wouldn’t have bothered including that in the text.

I do think that the cheating rumours are likely false since it doesn’t really fit Jace’s character. Also, at that point in the story, Jace was trying to appease Corlys. He had to name Corlys as Hand, but a more certain way to retain Corlys’ loyalty would’ve been to marry his granddaughter. It would be a promise that Corlys’ bloodline would sit the Iron Throne one day. Again, I believe it’s a very significant detail that the marriage between Jace and Baela never happened in the book. While I do think Jace would’ve married Baela eventually, in the future, it was not something high on his list of priorities at the time. That is to say, Baela was not really a priority to Jace in the book canon. This is obviously different on the show, where we are shown Jace actually prioritizing Baela a lot more. In the book, I think he may have cared for her, because she is family, but it was not any deeper than that.

Leaving Sara out of the equation since there’s no confirmation if she actually exists, I personally think the most significant relationships Jace has in the book, outside of his parents, are with his sworn brother, Cregan, and his milk brother, Daeron. In the show canon, there isn’t anything special to say about Jace’s trip North (he interacts with Cregan for a minute at best) and Jaceron doesn’t exist because Daeron was temporarily erased. However, we are given substantial details about these dynamics in the book. Jacegan appears to be a very popular relationship for Jace. I personally prefer these two as only friends though I don’t necessarily have any issue with them as a romantic couple. That being said, Jace is 14 years old in the book when he meets the 21 year old Cregan so the age gap is a bit questionable. Though by ASOIAF standards, I guess it’s normal. Jacegan is personally not my favourite ship for Jace because that would be Jaceron.

Jace and Daeron’s relationship is quite important to the narrative of the Dance. They were born close together and became milk brothers from the beginning. They were supposed to be representative of a positive future for the Targaryen dynasty, yet they become divided because of the increasing conflict between their families. Jace and Daeron were expected to be each other’s equals, they were made to train and study together, and attend the same feasts and balls. Daeron is said to be in his older brother’s shadows yet he should at least be on the same level as Jace. Except he isn’t because Jace is openly favoured by the King himself while Daeron gets no great show of affection from his own father. Daeron is the only one in his family who is also sent away from the capital while everyone else gets to stay together in King’s Landing. The boys’ appearances are directly compared to each other from the moment of their birth. The favoured heir who looks like a bastard and the trueborn Valyrian prince who is sidelined. They could have been friends in a different time, but in this story, they can only become enemies. Over the years, their actions still affect each other. It is Jace’s dragonseed plan that causes trouble for Daeron and eventually leads to his death. Even in separation, the milk brothers are connected. One detail that I’ve always liked is the parallel between the scenes of Jace and Daeron making plans for how to proceed with the war, but these plans are foiled by the supposed interference of the gods: “Yet the plans of men are but playthings to the gods. For even as Jace laid his plans, a new threat was closing from the east.”/“Men may plot and plan and scheme, but they had best pray as well, for no plan made by man has ever withstood the whims of the gods above.” These are the descriptions given before the beginning of the battles that would kill Jace and Daeron, the Gullet and Second Tumbleton. Though there isn’t any great show of love in this dynamic, it has always been one of my favourites because of what it represents for the Dance as a whole. Even HOTD erasing them doesn’t lessen my enjoyment of the relationship, since I primarily focus on book canon anyways.

For Baela, her most significant relationships, outside of her parents, in the book are with her twin, Rhaena, and her eventual husband, Alyn. Those are the ones GRRM wrote about extensively. Since all three characters are well fleshed out in the book, so is Baela’s role here. She is not just a supporting role to either Rhaena or Alyn, but a power player in her own right (with many of her actions being enabled by one or the other two). Incest is not a dealbreaker for Targaryens and Baela/Rhaena make an excellent match because of how seamlessly they operate together. I don’t know why the show created a bit of disconnect between the Dragon Twins, with Rhaena feeling bitter about Baela not understanding her concerns and the two of them growing up separately. In the book canon, they grew up together on Dragonstone and were said to be very close. It’s not until the war that they are separated. Though the more baffling decision is HOTD aging up Alyn. Book!Baela rejected the idea of being married to someone much older than her and instead chose Alyn, who is the same age. The characters’ ages in the show are kinda all over the place, but apparently the actor playing Alyn is in his 30s and even older than the actors playing Rhaenyra/Alicent/Criston, whereas the actress playing Baela is in her 20s. So show!Alyn is clearly older than show!Baela who is either 16 or 15. It defeats the whole purpose of the Baela/Alyn relationship which is supposed to be one of equals. Although it seems like the show is setting up some kind of dynamic for Baela and Alyn already, since season 2 had the scene of Baela calling herself “blood and fire” in her conversation with Corlys as a parallel to Alyn saying he is of “salt and sea”.

Baelyn’s relationship in the book is a marriage of convenience. Baela actually took a big risk when she decided to run away to Driftmark. The last time Baela had asked a boy to marry her, she would’ve been left disappointed when he didn’t fulfill her wish. Unlike Jace, who was Baela’s stepbrother and betrothed, Alyn may be her cousin but he is also a stranger for all intents and purposes. Ultimately, Alyn did agree to Baela’s proposal to help her escape her forced marriage. Since Baelyn have very similar personalities, they do work well together as partners, but at the same time, they are also known to quarrel with each other. The book does mention that they always end up reconciling whenever they clash:

Yet in the end they reconciled, as they always did.

Their dynamic is written to be complicated but it’s also one of the most interesting ones in the book. On the one hand, Alyn is willing to wage war to protect Baela, and later was willing to oppose the small council in order to protect her from a forced marriage, he defers to Baela and treats her as a higher authority than he does the king & queen, he names his flagship in honour of her, he makes her part of his political plans, he seems to have no issue with the idea of Baela expressing her sexuality through relationships with other people, etc. But on the opposite end, Alyn does seem to chafe against the notion of domestic marriage that Baela seems more favourable of. He craves freedom and adventure. That being said, Baela is often shown to be doing her own thing in the book too; she’s not confined to the role of wife. So while they may act as a couple at times, in other instances, they are their own individual.

Since Baela grew up watching couples in her family like Corlys/Rhaenys, Daemon/Laena, Daemon/Rhaenyra (regardless of whatever private issues those couples might’ve had), she would have certain expectations for how she wants her marriage to end up. While Jace may be a disappointment because he denied Baela the marriage she wanted, Alyn disappoints in other ways. Though he does at least try to prioritize Baela in the book. But whether that’s Alyn simply doing his duty to Baela since she is his wife, or out of genuine affection, is left ambiguous. I would say that Alyn grew to love Baela but he’s not in love with her. As for Baela, she probably felt the same way about Alyn. There is a part at the end of Fire & Blood where Baela expresses her jealousy over Alyn’s fond regard for another woman, so that does suggest Baela’s possible romantic interest in Alyn. But that’s the last mention of them. Fire & Blood 2 will have more details on the development of their relationship, and if Alyn reciprocates Baela’s growing interest in him. My impression of book!Baela’s romantic prospects is that Jace was just meant to be a placeholder for Alyn. GRRM clearly intended to depict Baela and Alyn as each other’s main love interest, considering how much he wrote about them. I find it fascinating how Alyn shares many similarities with both Laena and Daemon. Leave it to GRRM to create a love interest for Baela who is just a combination of her parents. Even the fact that Alyn and Baela have matching burn scars, complimentary sea & moon symbolism, grand displays of defiance for each other, all suggest a deep connection between the two, despite the stormy nature of their marriage.

The only other noteworthy relationships Baela had were with some of the other boys at Dragonstone. After the Battle of the Gullet, the rest of Team Black moves to King’s Landing and Baela remained behind at Dragonstone. I don’t think these relationships are of any particular consequence because we don’t even know the names of the boys Baela hooks up with but it’s still relevant for Baela’s own characterization. Tbh I do find it odd that GRRM didn’t write anything about Baela expressing grief over Jace’s death but the idea of her Dragonstone boy getting hurt moved Baela to tears:

As a younger girl she had oft been chastised for wrestling with squires in the yard, but of late she had taken to playing kissing games with them instead. Not long after the queen’s court removed to King’s Landing (whilst leaving Lady Baela on Dragonstone), Baela had been caught allowing a kitchen scullion to slip his hand inside her jerkin. Ser Robert, outraged, had sent the boy to the block to have the offending hand removed. Only the girl’s tearful intercession had saved him.

Though it’s possible that at that point, Baela has already moved on since her relationship with Jace was only an arrangement made by their parents, and now Baela is learning to express herself as more than just a consort. In which case, her relationship with the Dragonstone boys is a necessary starting point for Baela’s development.

Baela became a more prominent character near the end of the Dance, in the book. Despite this, she actually had more depth as a character than Jace (died in the first 1/3 of the Dance) and Alyn (he did even less than Baela during the war and only came to the forefront in the Regency). While the show did increase Baela’s presence, it fails to capture the complexity of her character that was present in Fire & Blood. Her primary purpose in show canon so far has just been about developing Jace’s character.

[linberlyy]

That promo shows that the writers even have team black minsunderstanding their characterization.

“They’re usurpers. Were the rightful heirs”

-Rhaenyra literally committed treason and forfeited her title when she gave birth to a white bastard child and tried to pass him off as her black husbands. Bastards can’t inherit anything.

“We do things the right way”

-when there is literally Daemon on the team.

-Killing Rhae Royce was the right thing?

-Groping your niece in public so you can ruin her reputation so the only one left to marry her is you.

-Wanting to have your baby brother tortured after your child just maimed him.

-Being smug and gloating at your big age because you see that your father cares nothing for his wife and children/your half siblings.

-Suggesting to actually kill your husband, only to have an actual murderer talk you know just faking it?

-Killing an innocent, to fake that death.

-Fleeing Kings Landing, doing nothing on Dragonstone. While letting Alicent and Otto to do all the work and successfully rule the seven kingdoms. Then coming back and insulting the people who are doing your job/

-USURPING THE BLOOD VELARYONS WITH YOUR BASTARD STRONG SON. CORLYS ALLOWING THIS TO HAPPEN TO HIS BLOOD FAMILY BECAUSE HE VALUES HIS OWN REPUTATION, EGO AND NAME OVER HIS FAMILY’S THOUSANDS YEARS OF HISTORY, BLOOD, SWEAT AND TEARS. “The old, the true, the brave” I think not

-Beheading Vaemond because he wasn’t standing for that shit.

-Blood and fucking cheese. The murder of babies. One of the foulest things to happen in the entire series. Up there with the abandonment, Rape and murder of Elia Martell and her babies and 11/12 year old Jeyne Poole being given to Petyr Baelish to be sold at his brothel.

“We seem like more of a family”

“Everybody gets on with each other”

-Daemon celebrated the death of Aemon and Baelon, then stole Baelon’s egg

-Rhaenys has disliked Rhaenyra since she was 14.

-Laena was a second choice and knew this all of her marriage. Daemon kept her from her family until she died.

-Daemon ignored his own child because she didn’t have a Dragon.

-Rhaenyra wanted to murder Laenor.

-Rhaenys ignored Rhaenyra’s sons, had nothing to do with them, never agreed to pretend to be their Grandmother, didn’t support Lucerys being the heir of Driftmark and only spoke in favor of him because she was backed into a corner and she also tolls in the service of men…

-Rhaenyra didn’t tell Corlys and Rhaenys their son is actually alive.

-Corlys and Rhaenys think they murdered their son. Rhaenys’a dislike is now a hatred

-Baela peaced the fuck out after that freaky Valyrian wedding and barely knows those people, especially her betrothed/stepbrothers.

-Rhaenyra’s sons are treated like royalty but Rhaena who is still hungering for her father’s attention, approval and affection is basically a glorified hostage to keep the Velaryons in line and is a servant to Rhaenyra. They have a formal where we only see Rhaena refer to her as “Princess” and “My Queen”. She seems to have no thoughts other than to serve “Her Queen”

-Daemon and Rhaenyra never gave Rhaena a new egg, yet they keeps finding eggs for each of their new pure Targaryen babies they keep having. He never took his daughter to see if she could claim one of the many at the Dragonmont. If he did why does she light up at the possibility of unclaimed dragons being used in the war? Free Rhaena

-Rhaenyra never told her son’s who their actual father is . Jace asks her and she gaslights him. She sends Luke on a mission and tells him that he has “Baratheon blood from your Grandmother Rhaenys” the boy dies with that lie being one of the last thing is mother told him even though he too knows Harwin Strong is his father. Rhaenyra doesn’t even offer him a “I’ll tell you about your father when I see you again” like Ned told Jon. Rhaenyra had no intentions of EVER telling them

-After they murdered his brother, Corlys was ready to abandon Rhaenyra, Daemon and those bastards and go back to Driftmark with Rhaenys and his real Grandchildren BUT Rhaenys reminded him that the girls are stuck with the Strong boys.

These people just seem like they just act in scenes yet they don’t actually watch the episodes to see the story come together. Either that or they’ve bought into their character’s superiority complexes. For the Team Black actors to have such a basic black and white, good vs bad outlook and understanding of their characters and see even their worst actions as good, is bad. The writers have failed to show the moral grayness of the book.

Everyone should see this post. it's just great. nothing to say 🤝🏼

[applepie2523]

"I feel like some of this criticism towards the show being pro-Black is unfounded, but there is truth to the sentiments, specifically in how key moments in the narrative have been framed and brushed over, while similar things have been focused on in a different manner

For example, the dichotomy between focusing on the girl Aegon rapes vs completely disregarding the person that Daemon killed to let Laenor escape his life

We get a lot of focus on Dyana and get showcased Alicient's veneer of hypocrisy- she who veils herself in religion but covers up her son's heinous crimes. Then we get a scene of her disparging her son for his vile behavior and hugging Helaena for the shame Aegon brings to others and his own marriage.

On the other hand, when Rhaenyra and Daemon plan for the fake-death of Laenor, the guy Daemon kills is a completely throwaway moment, and the focus of the scene is how there plan allows for Laenor to leave Westeros behind and live a happy life

Simply put, these two scenes where two random, "unimportant" people are victimized are presented in completely different manners which provoke completely different reactions from the audience. With the Laenor scene, the audience walks away happy because Rhaenyra and Daemon don't kill Laenor like it seemed they would from their speech and the focus is triumphant and just. The dead guy doesn't matter in the slightest. With Dyana, it completely shatters any sort of character arc or sympathy that Aegon may have had and firmly places him- who is the figurehead of the Greens- to be a character that is reviled by the audience and whose downfall is something to look forward to. Who the hell can even possibly support a rapist? Murder is something audience members can forgive, justify and accept- rape never ever

There are other moments throughout the show that are along the same lines. For example, giving Rhaenyra the opportunity to propose a marriage between Jace and Helaena as a peace offering that is rejected places her in a more sympathetic light as someone who was genuinely trying to reach out and make amends. I understand that this is an adaption and things are justifiably changed, but in the books, Corlys immediately has Jace and Luke bethroed to Baela and Rhaena so his true blood ends up on the throne and the insult of trying to pass off Strong bastards as true-born Velaryons is lessened. By making Corlys literally not care about blood and names, it gives the show an opportunity to make Rhaenyra look better

They also remove some of the brutality and ruthlessness of Rhaenyra. Instead of ordering the death of Vaemond and feeding his corpse to Syrax for insulting the parentage of her children, Vaemond is killed in court. And although violent and sudden, it is framed in a "good" way to the audience, since it directly follows the amazing Viserys sequence of coming to the throne and defending his daughter, along with the incredibly touching Daemon-Viserys moment of helping him to the throne

Likewise, the "questioned sharply" line following Aemond's mutilation is not framed in a way to express to the audience that Rhaenyra meant for Aemond to be tortured. She says he must be questioned sharply and then that transitions to Viserys simply questioning Aemond

This is kind of what, for me, makes the show pro-Black. If I had to characterize the show, I would say it's pro-Black and goes out of its way to make Alicient sympathetic. But overall it doesn't care too much for the Greens

I also feel like they slightly undermined the story that they themselves were trying to tell and set-up prior to the episode 6 timeskip and change-up of the actors. The show was clearly setting up that the primary motivation of the Greens was Alicient fearing for the safety of her children and family from Rhaenyra (with the rift starting by Rhaenyra's lies at the Godswood and Otto's departure in the rain) and the danger that Daemon posed

This would have required the Blacks and Daemon to be more unsavory and vicious in the post-timeskip episodes than they ended up being at all, because the show went out of its way to avoid that kind of stuff. For example- and this is a huge point that I think has been overlooked- the whole point of Rhaenyra and Daemon faking the death of Laenor was to signal to their enemies- ie Alicient and the Greens- that they were dangerous and should not be messed with.

The death of Laenor should have struck some fear in Alicient over what the two newly weds could have done to her own children. But narratively, literally the only consequence of Laenor's death was to introduce some temporary tension between the Blacks and Rhaenys that is ultimately resolved in the very same episode. The potential impact it should have had on Alicient is just not present

Another consequence that was completely ignored was the impact Rhaenyra and Daemon's marriage should have had on Viserys. It was already set up that he greatly disapproved of whatever was going on between the two of them in the earlier episodes, but there was no payoff to that once they got married. In the books, this is what causes Viserys to kick Rhaenyra out of court, but the show instead wanted to focus on the positive relationship between Rhaenyra and Viserys and Daemon and Viserys in his last episode

Now I'm not saying that that decision was a bad one- it was really touching and incredibly emotional- but paired up with everything else, I think the post-timeskip show has definitely tilted the narrative to be pro-Black and undermine what earlier parts of the story was trying to set up. It's doing this while also trying to maintain some sympathy for Alicient

The one very stand out thing that they have done is Aemond's character though. Obviously he will be a villain, but they've done an incredibly good job at making him sympathetic and understandable (I will fiercely maintain that he has done absolutely nothing wrong so far in the show). I wish that were extended to the rest of the Greens as they could make them the obvious villains they should be in the narrative, while still making them sympathetic and understandable." -- by a random person on the r/asoiaf subreddit