#badcrowleytakes

[badaziraphaletakes]

All the people saying Crowley's trauma has "made him a better person" need to read this

@peculiar-persephone

[badaziraphaletakes]

Okay this blog is basically now BadAziraphaleTakesAndBadCrowleyTakes

Behold:

NEITHER! OF! THEM! ARE! NAIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And we literally have an actual therapist on record saying their relationship and the way they behave toward each other is HEALTHY and that it's only the circumstances that surround them that are unhealthy!!!!!!!!!!! What more proof do we need?????????

[badaziraphaletakes]

This is not how a healthy relationship looks

This is how Crowley feels about this post:

Friendly reminder that:

1. Crowley is not petty about things that are painful for the two of them. He banters with Aziraphale because he knows he likes it, not to upset him.

2. Crowley knows d*mn well that his plan wasn’t any better than Aziraphale’s. He knows they both only have sh*tty options. And he knows that’s not Aziraphale’s fault.

3. Crowley needs to apologize just as much as Aziraphale does. In their final conversation (for now), they both were stressed and terrified and inadvertently hurt each other by saying hurtful things they didn't mean. (And in Crowley's case, he kissed Aziraphale without consent. He didn't mean to hurt him by doing it, and Aziraphale didn't object and kissed him back, and Crowley let go quickly, as he should have done, but it was still wrong of him.)

Thank you and good night.

[badaziraphaletakes]

Bad Crowley Take for y'all, to mix it up a little bit!

Me when I read this:

Y'all, Crowley did NOT choose to fall. He’s said so many, many, many times. We're getting real tired of explaining this. (EDIT: What I, Mod X, meant to convey here is a. That given that Crowley said he didn’t mean to fall, it feels wrong to doubt his word about his own ab*se, and b. Whatever else Crowley may or may not have chosen, he definitely did not choose being thrown into a pool of boiling sulfur - assuming heaven knew it was there- on himself. No one “chooses” to be tortured that way. Hope this clears some things up. Sorry for the confusion caused by my poor wording.)

And one person’s ab*sive household (company? I don't even know lol) is NOT a "better" or "worse" experience to live through than another. That's just not how it works. We do NOT get to say one ab*se survivor had it “better” than another.

[badaziraphaletakes]

Inside every bad Aziraphale take, there is an equal and opposite bad Crowley take

CROWLEY DID NOT NEED TO BE TRAUMATIZED IN ORDER TO BECOME A GOOD PERSON

HE WAS ALREADY A GOOD PERSON BEFORE HE FELL

TRAUMA IS NOT NECESSARY FOR CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT

Also please, for the love of Frances McDormand, stop saying that the less-Autistic-appearing, higher-masking, post-fall, traumatized, more subdued version of Crowley is a better person than our happy excited Autistic Starmaker. That take is rancid and I'm getting real tired of explaining why.

[badaziraphaletakes]

Bad Crowley takes now, too... this day just gets better and better

This is a bad Crowley take. I haven't seen the victim-blaming language applied to him before, but there's a first time for everything, it seems.

Like, how can you blame someone who's had his kind of life for having a "flight" reaction?

[badaziraphaletakes]

Is anyone else getting a little tired of the "Ineffable Dumbasses" thing?

Like, I'm sorry, but how would you have handled their situation better than they have?

[badaziraphaletakes]

Thank you answering my ask! I come bearing gifts - plesae forgive my terrible scribbling over the usernames as I'm graphics illiterate :(

Hopefully you can read this pile of UTTER NONSENSE. Ta! Sadie

He... he has literally always had the choice to show Aziraphale the door???? If anything he has never had the choice to choose to NOT show Aziraphale the door! Why aren't we talking about the fact that Crowley's never had the chance to openly express his love to his husband and tell him how much he means to him?? That's the real injustice here.

It would be SO MUCH EASIER and infinitely safer for both of them to show each other the door and yet for 6000 years they have chosen again and again (and again and again and again and again and again) not to do that! That's part of what makes their relationship so beautiful!

I mean, yes, there's a kernel of truth in there about how the fandom woobifies Crowley and treats him like some kind of pitiful golden retriever with no mind of his own. That annoys us too here at BAT. (Seriously, we talk about it at least once a week 😂) He's also our good Autistic not-a-boy, and we won't let anyone babify him on our watch. (Is 'babify' a word? Whatever, it is now lol.) But... isn't implying that he doesn't have a choice about staying with Aziraphale an act of woobification in itself?

Oh and Aziraphale had to be 'talked into trying to save the world' BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANY WAY TO DO IT!!! He agreed the moment he heard a viable plan for stopping Armageddon that wouldn't get him or Crowley incinerated.

And... "doing nothing for 6000 years"? Don't even get me started, ugh.

[badaziraphaletakes]

The Starmaker: A whole essay apparently

I don’t necessarily think the anti-Aziraphale hate is, for the most part, people projecting - at least not more than would be the case for any other character in any fandom.

I think it is primarily due to anti-Autistic bias, and here's another reason why:

Because the moment the fandom most dislike in Crowley - namely, the moment when they say “Nice to meet you” and go right back to being excited about their stars instead of adhering to social pleasantries - is their most Autistic moment. And happened during the period of time that overall they were acting at their most autism-esque.

So many people have said that moment was them being arrogant and superior and self-absorbed. Autistic people get called that constantly. (I’m ashamed to admit that I too fell into the trap for awhile of thinking that moment was them being arrogant, too. I’m not immune to this kind of bias. Anti-Autistic prejudice is so pervasive in our society that we can’t get away from it.)

People have said Crowley was a better person after they fell (despite the fact that we’ve seen that their defining moral trait, their tendency to question injustice, was already in place before then). Given that post-fall Crowley acts FAR less like an Autistic person, that take gives major “they were acting really Autistic before but then they had a super traumatic experience and that fixed them” vibes, and I REEEEALLY don’t like it. (I also have extremely mixed feelings about the “trauma makes you a better person” idea to begin with, but that’s another conversation).

People are even saying Crowley had to fall in order to become someone who could love Aziraphale and be loved by him… WHAT?!!! I’m going to be doing some thinking about what that implies, but I can tell you right now it’s not good.

Our beautiful, excitable, joyful, Autistic-esque Starmaker was just as worthy of Aziraphale as Crowley is. There was NOTHING bad in what we saw of them as opposed to post-fall Crowley, nothing that suggests they “needed to fall to learn a lesson” or anything like that, and I’ll fight anyone who says otherwise.