#aynohyeb

[folksy]

wait i want to hear your new and improved version of angel (show)

well right off the fucking bat is the fact I would have kept this scene in

literally feel that would have been so great. it is fucked up and that’s why I feel it’d be so good to include it. he’s struggling with his journey and he fed from buffy a few months ago. he’s got that bloodlust. and the fact that when he meets doyle, doyle mentions to him that he needs to become more personal with who he helps otherwise he could slip and feed from them would be more resonant if that actually happened at the end of the episode. let angel be fucked up and have bumps on his path to redemption. he’s allegorical of a recovering alcoholic- have him relapse because that happens. and then it makes it more meaningful as we see him work through it in the show.

I would also let angel be explicitly bi. he already gets to be the butt of the joke with his sexuality and masculinity brought into question. he’s even made gay jokes himself. let him be attracted to men openly. we KNOW he and spike have fucked let’s get more on that and jokes about it. let him be flirty with men. I know he’s repression guy but in my vision he can be repressed and openly bi. maybe some homoerotism with doyle (not too much tho as he needs to be into cordy to transfer the visions to her)….. similarly lorne is obviously so gay coded but I want him to be more explicitly gay too <3 so it’s a no brainer I would like the show to have our LGBT characters

just better writing towards the female characters and related plot lines. like fear of pregnancy is an issue (such as expecting where the men deceive the women and they get pregnant with demon babies) but it needs to be dealt with more care. it feels a lot like cordy is our only main female character so let’s repeatedly knock her up with demons as a vehicle for issues regarding pregnancy. and it’s yucky

branching from above, more non-white characters! I’m white but like it’s pretty obvious the buffyverse has issues when it comes to race and gunn was finally a main cast member of color. I wish there was more on him and his old gang. they’re only brought up a few times following gunn joining the team and there’s an obvious rift with not only gunn aligning himself with a vampire, but these are all white people he’s joining. issues regarding gunn and race are kind of present in s5 with him becoming a super lawyer- it’s his time where he’s not the angry black man of the streets used as the muscle but instead an educated and respected black man. that’s why he’s so afraid about losing his lawyer knowledge. but it is also assimilation. so yeah better convos on race both with actual characters of color and the allegories through the demons (like in AYNOHYEB where angel is clearly paralleled with the biracial woman, I get what they were going for and again I am not biracial, but it still felt off)

these above points were ideas I already had in mind mostly lol below are ones I thought of when prompted

more cordy fighting! badass fighting cordy…. though I don’t hate it as much as others (I’m just like whatever. in terms of it narratively but the circumstances leading to it and the misogyny inflicted onto cc and her character- I’m very critical of that) I would still do away with the s4 plot line of her being the incubator for jasmine. idk how to do that plot differently it’s 4 am rn but disregard it. don’t have cordelia fuck connor and get pregnant. I know the issue at hand here is cc’s pregnancy which I feel could be played about differently but I can’t think right now. because like they could have cordelia actually being pregnant (groo?) but then idk how to incorporate another baby into the storyline. because angel could still have the angst with connor independent of that storyline, and those lead to him killing connor and then accepting the wr&h offer. I didn’t mind the jasmine story apart from the issue with cordy. maybe cordy can have some type of injury or affliction that leaves her bedridden and she’s helping from the sidelines? because she does do that to an extent already lol but it doesn’t force a pregnancy and possession narrative onto cordelia. perhaps I could think deeper on this

WAIT I’d also have more crossovers with buffy characters. buffy and dawn and anya and xander and giles and willow and tara. I need them to meet the angel team. also in an ideal world maybe whisk spike from buffy and have him join angel sooner

[evilwickedme]

Babes are you now or have you ever been is basically the perfect episode? It keeps you on your feet, has an engaging story, has a twist ending, perfectly foreshadows the events of the season as well as setting up its themes, plus fifties costumes and makeup. Destiny has Spike and a surprise appearance by Lindsey at the end. Don't get me wrong, Christian Kane can get it and Spike is literally my number two character in the buffyverse, a love so strong it is keeping an autistic man (my boyfriend) from going on a rant every time he's on screen (we're only in season two). But the episode itself is very shenanigans, no oomf. AYNOHYEB has shenanigans AND oomf. Vote wisely

Vote on more episodes here!

See the full list of quarterfinal polls here.

Are You Now or Have You Ever Been: In the 1950s, Angel aids a woman hiding from her past in a hotel with a long history of death and mayhem. In the present, Angel hunts a demon. Destiny: Spike receives a mysterious box in the mail, which emits a flash that somehow re-corporealizes him. He's thrilled to be solid again, but it also causes reality to start deteriorating at Wolfram and Hart; the Shanshu Prophesy is thrown into confusion by the presence of two ensouled vampire champions in the world. Angel and Spike's rivalry descends into a fierce brawl as they fight over a mystical grail in order to resolve the conflict.

[we-pay-for-everything]

Are You Now or Have You Ever Been

@spacelyspace requested this episode, saying it was one of her favorites. It’s one of mine too, so thank you for asking me to review this! 

AYNOHYEB is perhaps the most perfect Angel episode ever. It has amazing direction, amazing production, amazing acting, amazing writing, amazing soundtrack, amazing casting, amazing everything. It’s in my top 10 favorite Angel episodes. 

I think I’ll explain, point by point, what I find compelling in this episode. 

First of all, there’s the story in the present. As it happens with much of seasons 1 and 2, Cordelia and Wesley are the comic relief and ground the flashbacks to the present. They research the hotel and guide the story. I think it works wonderfully because it gives the characters focus, screen time and injects humor into the episode, balancing it out. I particularly like the scenes at the hotel when they’re trying to kill the demon. Gunn and Wesley bicker and Angel, as usual, is stuck as the “father” of the group, which is one of my favorite dynamics. In the beginning, Wesley looked up to Angel and valued his opinion. I find it sweet and amusing that when the demon (don’t really remember its name) told Wes that he was particularly paranoid, Wesley didn’t rest until Angel said he wasn’t:

Wesley:  "Angel, you don't find me...especially paranoid, do you?" Angel:  "Not especially."

I have to give kudos to the costume and set department for the exquisite job they did with the hotel and the period stuff. Angel looks particularly good! 

I think it’s interesting when Tim Minear set the story, at the time of McCarthyism, racist, homophobia, etc. It was the perfect place for a paranoia demon to put down roots. Secrets abound in the hotel: the male, gay prostitute (or so it appeared), Judy and her secrets (her race and the money), etc. The flashbacks can’t be longer than 25min and still the story is so rich! The bellhop and the manager stand out particularly in terms of side characters. Two morally corrupt people that the paranoia demon takes advantage of easily. 

I really do like Judy’s character, especially in the present. This story is set about 20 years after Angel rescues a puppy (Orpheus), turns a soldier in the submarine (Why We Fight) and 40 years before he drinks from the dinner owner (Orpheus). Considering the timeline, Angel’s state of mind makes perfect sense. He was lonely, tormented and trying to keep out of society. Naturally, Judy and her insistence in befriending him interest Angel. He finds himself wanting to help. He did help someone when he rescued a lady’s puppy, but that time he wasn’t strong enough to control himself and sent the woman away. This time, he helps Judy as an act of friendship, and perhaps she was his first “friend” ever, It’s quite sad when she betrays him due to her fear of being caught and the influence of the paranoia demon. 

I confess that the first time I watched the episode, I expected Angel to kill the demon and save the day. However, it’s a lot more interesting and shocking when he doesn’t. It’s chilly when Angel turns to the paranoia demon and tells him to take everybody. It works as a preview of the Angel we’ll see in the upcoming episodes, especially in Reunion when he traps the lawyers in the cellar. Even Angel looses his faith in humanity and before he met Buffy, he didn’t have much faith to begin with. 

I think Tim Menear could’ve ended the story there, but he decided that Angel and old Judy should meet in the presence. I quite liked that decision. Judy was very moving and it was a chance to show how much Angel has changed. Kudos to David Boreanaz for portraying so much warmth and forgiveness in present Angel. I shed a few tears when Judy died with her hand in Angel’s. ("I'm just going to rest. Just for a minute and then I'm going to go out." *tears*)

 Angel finally kills the paranoia demon and decides to move in into the hotel. it just goes to show how strong Angel is, to surround himself with shameful memories, of literal and figurative demons. However, like Angel, the hotel is not evil anymore. Kudos again to Tim Minear for making the hotel feel like a real entity that represents Angel. 

100/10. Fenomenal episode! 

Send me a BtVS/AtS episode and I’ll give you my brutally honest opinion

[giffingbuffy]

buffyverse character arc appreciation | angel

[sulietsexual]

Angel. Are You Now Or Have You Ever Been

I used to really not like this episode, finding it slow and tedious to get through. But through many rewatches it has slowly become one of my favourite AtS episodes and one which I think is vastly underrated and is actually a beautiful study in human nature, showing how panic and paranoia spread quickly and with devastating consequences, and how the road to hell is truly paved with good intentions.

As viewers, we tend to forget that Angel’s story existed before Buffy. Because she is the one who truly brought him back into the human world and helped him to re-connect with humanity (his own and in general) I think it’s easy to just assume that all the years leading up to meeting her were bleak and emotionless for Angel. And, indeed, the beginning of the flashback seems to emphasise this, with an ensouled but isolated Angel cut off from humanity, content to live in his own, tiny, confined world. The disruption to this world caused by Judy is so endearing, as we see Angel at first resist the urge to get to know her but slowly be drawn to her, to her humanity and her need to be “rescued”, so to speak.

I think this episode really shows that, even through his depression and isolation, Angel’s urge to protect and help has always been present, and that connecting with people, with humanity is what sparks it. This is a running theme in his show and is quite ironic really; Angel is an isolated person and doesn’t like to interact with humans but he needs this interaction in order to stay connected with his own humanity. It’s humans and their humanity which evoke the champion in him and AYNOHYEB really illustrates this.

It also represents the downside to humanity, the weakness and fear which breeds hatred and violence. Judy makes an impulsive and terrible mistake when she blames Angel for her crimes, her fear of persecution and racially-motivated violence spurning her into an act of desperation. The scene where the Hotel inhabitants hang Angel is raw and visceral and shows how out-of-control mob mentality gets. Their stunned silence and horror at what they have done after “killing” Angel is powerful and emotional, as they contemplate their own weakness and fear and what it’s led to. Angel’s loss of faith in humanity predicts the loss he will experience later in the season, after his discovery of W&H’s Home Office and the way he walks away from the Hotel foreshadows his abandonment of the lawyers to the sadistic hands of Darla and Drusilla.

This episode also touches on an aspect of Angel’s character which isn’t often explored; the fact that Angel will outlive everyone he loves. When he meets up with an ageing Judy, one of the first things she does is comment on how he hasn’t aged. I once read a standalone non-canon BtVS novel in which Angel befriended a doctor during WWI (I think) and then revisited her years later, only to find she was an old dying lady, and he was hit with the realisation that one day that will happen to Buffy. Seeing Judy emphasises this, showing how Angel will eventually lose all those whom he loves. It’s quite tragic really. But Angel giving Judy forgiveness and therefore peace is beautiful (and is another running theme on AtS, how forgiveness is healing and transformative).

I really love this episode. The flashbacks are really well done and I like the present-day scenes too, as the gang discover Angel’s past with the Hotel, not to mention the really funny scenes with Gunn and Wes sniping at one another and Wesley’s underlying paranoia coming to the surface. All up, a really beautiful episode which deserves more appreciation.

[mossomness]

Yay---if you love talking about ATS, can I ask you more stuff?! If not, please feel free to ignore! Who would you say is your very favorite non-Wesley character? What are your three (or so!) favorite and least favorite episodes from each season, and which 5-7 episodes from the series would you name as your all time favorites? Do you love the Wesley/Cordelia bond (end of S3 aside!) a fraction as much as I do?! ;) And how would you rank the btvs seasons from your favorite to least favorite?!

You can always ask! Holy crap, what fun questions!

My favorite non-Wesley character: I have often answered with Fred for this question, but I think over time, Angel has edged her out. (I blame fanfiction for this. Angel is featured far more than Fred, and it has led me to analyze his character more).

3 favorite and least favorite episodes per season (least favorite is difficult because I really love this show):

Season 1: 3 favorites - Five by Five, Sanctuary, and To Shanshu in LA. 3 least favorites - Bachelor Party (perhaps my least favorite from the entire show), She, and I guess Sense and Sensitivity (I don’t dislike the episode, I just don’t like it either.)

Season 2: 3 favorites - The Pylea Arc (I’m counting it as one and you can’t stop me), Redefinition (the Angel half is boring as hell, but the Cordy, Wes, and Gunn scenes more than make up for it), and a tie between Darla and AYNOHYEB. 3 least favorites - Happy Anniversary, Untouched, and Dead End.

Season 3: 3 favorites - Billy, Waiting in the Wings, and Sleep Tight. 3 least favorite - Provider, Couplet, and Double or Nothing (or if you want to lump the last 5 episodes into one, I’d pick those).

Season 4: 3 favorites - Deep Down, Spin the Bottle, and Soulless (this one was hard to narrow down). 3 least favorites - The House Always Wins, Slouching Toward Bethlehem (I guess? I’m not really a fan of the amnesia stuff, but I don’t hate it), and Inside Out (I could write a whole post about why I picked this one. I would like it except for one line. When Skip was going through the gang saying what Jasmine had orchestrated, when he got to Wesley he said ‘sleeping with the enemy’. That implies that without Jasmine’s interference, they wouldn’t have gotten together, and that their relationship somehow led to her awakening - which it didn’t at all. And there was a freaking good thing they could have said instead like ‘translating a false prophesy’. Come freaking on. They dropped the ball on that one).

Season 5: 3 favorites - A Hole in the World, Not Fade Away, and Lineage. 3 least favorites - The Cautionary Tale of Numero Cinco, Just Rewards, and Why We Fight.

5-7 all time favorites: I’m just going to name my top 10 because it would be a disservice to leave out numbers 8-10. A Hole in the World, Not Fade Away, Spin the Bottle, Billy, Lineage, Smile Time, You’re Welcome, Deep Down, Time Bomb, and Waiting in the Wings.

Do I love the Wesley/Cordelia bond?: They are my ultimate brotp. Their friendship is so beautiful. From their character descriptions, you wouldn’t think they would click, but they do so well. They are so in sync, and they care about each other so much. Neither of them had really had friends who loved them unconditionally before, and they found that in each other.

Rank of Buffy seasons: 3, 2, 5, (1, 4 and 6 are pretty close together in my list and I don’t really hold one above the others.), and 7.

[folksy]

girl I’m just trying to watch the end of aynohyeb and darla is here tearing up the litterbox taking a dookie

[we-pay-for-everything]

I'm asking my favorite bangel blogs the same question. Since you are one of my favorite bangel blogs I like to ask how would you describe Angels love for Buffy through out both btvs and ats series. You can include the comics s8 to s12 if you want.

First of all, thanks for considering my blog to be one of your favorite Bangel blogs! Secondly, I'm sorry it took actual months to get back to you. Thirdly, I don't really read the comics or see them as canon...

Angel's love for Buffy, and Buffy's love for Angel, evolved naturally, following the progression of the characters and series. Their relationship always served a purpose. In the beginning, Angel's character was meant to contrast or complement Buffy's. Angel in s1 was supposed to be as immature and emotionally constipated as Buffy, which fit season 1 in general (even Giles was a bit immature and very emotionally repressed). If you think of the events of Becoming and Orpheus, Angel's personality in s1 doesn't fit him - because it's meant to reflect Buffy's immaturity - but you can interpret Angel's behavior as him putting on an act. We saw it in AYNOHYEB that Angel can act cool and aloof when the situation calls for it, as a way of keeping people away. Pair that up with decades of social isolation and an unprecedented crush, and you get Angel's hot and, mostly, cold attitude towards Buffy in the first seasons and a half.

Angel's love for Buffy in s1 and half of s2 was a bit immature, confusing, selfish, and shallow, but it brought him back to life. Buffy fought demons worse than Angel and begrudgingly accepted that responsibility. Angel got a taste of what it felt like to fight evil, and as he fell in love he became more open to other experiences and emotions. His self-hatred didn't exactly diminish, but he realized that he had free will and was capable of taking responsibility for his past actions in a more suitable way. As Buffy matured, he did too (or rather, his characterization changed). Their love grew stronger because they did. In the first three seasons, Buffy is Angel's priority.

Beginning with AtS, this changes. Buffy stops being his first thought as he accepts the role he's been given. He's not with Buffy anymore, so he learns to live for himself without self-destructing. His love for Buffy is just there, for the lack of a better word. It reminds him of simpler times, and encourages and gives him hope (particularly after IWRY and learning about the Shanshu prophecy). I feel like there are periods in Angel's life when he reconnects with Buffy even from a distance - in season 2, after Forever and the Darla fiasco, and in season 4, because of Connor. Buffy and Angel become more compatible as the shows progress and they experience similar things.

I don't think Angel's love for Buffy changes much in AtS. Without contact it's not possible for that to happen. However, it does mature, consolidate and become more adaptable. Angel's love for Buffy in the beginning was sort of intrusive to him - incompatible with his self-hatred and with Buffy's life. But after leaving Buffy, over time he comes to terms with their parting and begins to accept the love he feels without guilt or remorse. Angel watches Buffy grow up from afar, and his admiration for her, and their connection, deepen. Most of all though, as Angel learns about himself, grows into himself, and carves a life for himself, Buffy stops being unattainable or a fantasy (which is visible in Chosen). She becomes more real to him - partly, because he sees her stumble, partly because his own experiences force him to truly understand her - and so his love for her just becomes natural. By AtS season 5, Angel knows he will always love Buffy and that doesn't bother him at all. He's proud of her and treasures their love - he learns to accept her love for him too. He's confident enough to actually pursue other relationships knowing they are mostly temporary (meaning, his feelings for Buffy never get in the way of his feelings for other women, because his feelings for her are forever and he knows he can't be with anyone regardless). If I had to choose the biggest difference between Angel and Buffy it would be this. In the end, Buffy is always trying to find something more permanent so her feelings for Angel do get in the way of things (see Riley), and Buffy never truly accepts her parting with Angel (see Selfless). But Angel is a vampire who knows he will always be alone, so he welcomes all the pain that comes with loving Buffy.

Thanks for the ask! I think there were other things I wanted to say that I didn't, and my brain is sort of scrambled right now, but I hope I did okay! I'm out of practice with these things now...

[we-pay-for-everything]

A lot of anti-Bangel people like to say that Angel asking Buffy "Do you love me?" in "Lie To Me" was 'emotional manipulation'. I personally don't believe it was, but what do you think about it?

Emotional manipulation is often accidental - the emotionally manipulative person is usually immature and unaware of how their words and actions affect others. Angel’s definitely a bit immature in the first two seasons of BtVS (mainly due to the fact that Buffy was so young), but you can retroactively understand why. 

Taking Angel’s whole story into consideration, in season 1 he started off a bit cold, like he’d been in the 50s (AYNOHYEB). As Angel’s feelings for Buffy grew, he began to uncover a warmer, kinder side to him which had been neglected for decades. In season 2, Angel allowed himself to be feel more and to worry less. Because he was more vulnerable, his emotional limitations became more apparent. In season 2, Angel was scared, unused to people, overwhelmed by his feelings. After being cursed, Angel became a very empathetic person so his understanding of right and wrong improved. However, he mostly saw the worst of people because he exposed himself to the worst. He didn’t see how mature human beings carry themselves; he didn’t really speak to anyone. Angel only had experience dealing with the bad guys. He was emotionally in a state of *arrested development*. 

Angel asking “Do you love me?” is cringey and immature. But he wasn’t being emotionally manipulative. We know he would’ve told Buffy the truth regardless of her answer, and he clearly wasn’t trying to soften the blow or to remind Buffy of how she felt for him so she’d take things better. Angel was only feeling insecure because, to him, Drusilla is the worst thing Angelus ever did. 

The way Angel asked Buffy clearly shows it wasn’t manipulation. He was neither sweet nor coercive. He asked her bluntly, not once by twice, and even berated her for having feelings for him. Angel wanted to be loved, but hated himself. The way Angel confessed to Buffy about Drusilla shows he wanted to be hated and punished. But Angel couldn’t help seek reassurance from Buffy that he wasn’t a complete monster and could maybe be accepted by her. Regardless, Angel didn’t lie or sugarcoat the truth. That’s why it wasn’t emotional manipulation. He spoke awkwardly and immaturely, but he certainly didn’t knowingly emotionally manipulate Buffy and she certainly wasn’t manipulated by him. Her reaction says it all: she was shocked but stood strong; she didn’t comfort Angel, and Angel didn’t ask for comfort.

Thanks for the ask!

[we-pay-for-everything]

What was the point of Wesley betraying Angel was that the plan the writers had all along or an unraveling of season 3's plotline? Was it because the writers wanted an excuse for him to go dark and explore a more ruthless Wesley? They destroyed a friendship along with making Wesley someone I didn't like anymore. But honestly the whole of season 3 is a mess and I wish I could rewrite it because I despite it lol

I don’t know if Wesley betraying Angel was planned at the beginning of season 3 (or earlier), or if it just happened as the writing for season 3 evolved. Both are likely. However, as Wesley’s actions in late season 3 are so discordant with who he was in the beginning of the season, it probably just felt right to the writers to go there (due to the unraveling of his character, which may have been planned). 

As to the purpose of Wesley betraying Angel? I’m sure the writers didn’t want to make Wesley unlikable, or to casually ruin his friendship with Angel. But, truth be told, they did ruin plenty of relationships in season 3 because of their single-minded focus on Cangel and on a pointless Wesley/Fred/Gunn love triangle. 

I think the writers might have been too concerned with relationships, and put characters and plot second, to the detriment of the first. Wesley’s unraveling was mainly because Fred “chose” Gunn over him, and because he didn’t feel worthy of being with Fred (damn you, Billy). Plus, with Cordelia being obsessed with Angel, and Angel with Connor, Wesley was accidentally and purposely isolated from everyone, leading to him making some unwise solo decisions.

Wesley may have betrayed Angel, but I think that was just a by-product of his actions. Wesley made the same decision in AtS season 3 as in BtVS season 3 (re: Faith). He trusted corrupt people - either because they seemed earnest enough, or because he thought it was the only way of handling things by himself (he was the authority figure in both seasons after all), and he made an important decision without consulting anyone else, knowing his friends would disapprove. On BtVS season 3, due to the fallout from his actions (re: losing Faith to the dark side), Wesley was fired, and lost whatever trust and respect others had for him. He regained it by deferring to Buffy in the final episodes. On AtS season 3, the consequences were way more dire, because his actions were as well. He was essentially fired, he nearly lost his life (because of Justine, not Angel), and he lost the respect and trust of those closest to him. 

Wesley has always had a dark side. We saw in Five by Five what happens when he’s pushed too far. He was going to kill Faith because he couldn’t get through to her. And he knew killing someone would have consequences, but perhaps he didn’t care. We also saw in season 1 that before Wesley and Angel truly became friends, Wesley would’ve killed Angel or Angelus if he had to. 

I get that Wesley’s decisions in season 3 seem rash and out of character, but they’re very in character. Wesley didn’t make the decision to kidnap Connor lightly. First, he meticulously translated a prophecy, and then he consulted some sort of expert on them. The burger joint thingy gave him proof that the prophecy was legit. He predicted the signs of the apocalypse (the rain, the earthquake, the blood, etc.), and Angel himself validated Wesley’s fears when he said his son smelled good enough to eat(!). Wesley required proof before he started taking the prophecy seriously, and he debated himself for a long time. As a former Watcher, he believes in prophecies and in evidence, and in making really hard choices even if he’s hated for them. Wesley had to be pragmatic, otherwise Connor could die. Giles is the same way (remember seasons 5 and 7?).  

And Angel has a history of indirectly (and directly) hurting those he cares about. He nearly destroyed Buffy because of Angelus, and in AYNOHYEB, Angel left people (his friend included) to die. Connor could’ve easily triggered Angel’s curse, and Angelus would’ve murdered Connor. Also, there were a whole bunch of entities that wanted Connor and were capable of doing a lot of fucked up shit to get him. Lilah, in particular, wanted Connor dead. Isn’t Wolfram&Hart capable of turning Angel around to the point of murder? 

Wesley’s actions were extreme, but we have to consider their context. Angel had been too caught up in his son to see things clearly. Any parent would deny being capable of killing their child, but in Wesley’s world, everything is possible. Also, things had been escalating with Holtz, and shit was getting dark. Wesley spent hours, by himself, in his little office, translating that prophecy. His mind was in a dark place already; the perfect mindset for paranoia and fear to take hold and guide his actions. 

I don’t think Wesley’s actions were unjustified, or his reasoning unreasonable (haha). They made sense to Wesley, in Wesley’s world. It wasn’t bad writing. Bad writing was Angel’s personality change, or Fred’s love triangle. The writers just tapped into a different side of Wesley, one we’d seen before. 

Bottom line is: Wesley fucked up, and even his best case scenario (Connor and him living HEA together) was terrible. But, people fuck up, Wesley’s intentions were good, and he thought things through before kidnapping Connor. 

Season 3 messed a lot of shit up, but it didn’t ruin Wesley or make me like him less. His relationship with Angel is one of my favorites, and one of the reasons why it’s so interesting is because of how it evolved. First they were indifferent to each other, then friends, then Wesley hero-worshiped Angel, then they were equals and close friends. After season 3, their friendship never recovered, which is so sad, but also understandable. Wesley isn’t a very open person, and neither is Angel, and normal relationships are hard to fix. Imagine mending a friendship in the Buffyverse, when things go to shit every Tuesday. 

Ok, I said what I wanted to say. I loved answering this ask! I love discussing AtS so much, and I love Wesley! So...

Thanks for the ask!

[we-pay-for-everything]

Top 10 AtS episodes!

The order of the episodes is ever changing, but right now:

Not Fade Away

Epiphany

Lullaby 

Home

Origin

Deep Down

I Will Remember You

Sanctuary

A New World 

Judgment or AYNOHYEB

Idk, something like this.

Thanks for the ask!

[we-pay-for-everything]

1-30 Angel the Series??

Top 5 Episodes? Not Fade Away, Epiphany, Home, Lullaby, Sanctuary (and IWRY, Five by Five, Judgment, AYNOHYEB, Deep Down, Orpheus, Origin, Shells, etc.) I love so many episodes...  

Bottom 5 Episodes? Destiny, The Girl in Question, Birthday, Untouched, Awakening, etc.

Top 5 Characters? Angel, Wesley, Lilah, Faith, Connor! (Gunn). 

Bottom 5 Characters? Jasmine!Cordelia, Gavin, Linwood, Knox, Spike. 

Top 5 Romantic Ships? Buffy/Angel, Wesley/Lilah, Angel/Darla,  Doyle/Cordelia, uh... Angel/Wesley. 

Bottom 5 Romantic Ships? Connor/Cordelia, Cordelia/Angel, Fred/Knox, The Beast/Cordelia, Justine/Holtz. 

Top 5 Platonic Ships? Angel/Connor, Angel/Wesley, Angel/Faith, Gunn/Wesley/Cordelia, Angel/Lilah.

Bottom 5 Platonic Ships? Justine/Holtz, Holtz/Connor, Gavin/Linwood, Connor/Jasmine, Lindsey/Spike

Season Ranking? 2-1-4-5-3

Character You Relate To The Most? Angel. Always and forever. 

Character That Inspires You? Angel, duh. 

Character You Can’t Understand? Lindsey. 

Best Written Character? Lilah. She’s perfect from first episode to last. 

Worst Written Character? Jasdelia. CC’s acting was terrible and the writers should’ve found a way to improve the character despite that. 

Most Cliched Character? Cordelia, probably. AtS doesn’t have many cliched characters. Only the one-episode ones are more cliched. 

Most Unusual Character? Jasmine is an outstanding villain. Also, Illryia.

Most Inspired Storyline? Angel’s in season 2, for sure. The Darla/ Buffy parallels, Angel’s depression, Wolfram&Hart’s involvement, the existential themes, etc. are brilliantly executed. However, Jasmine’s storyline is so creative and genial.

Favorite Hero? Angel, of course. 

Favorite Villain? Wolfram&Hart, but that’s too vague. I’d say Lilah but she’s not 100% a villain. So, Jasmine. 

Best Person? Anne Steele.

Most Influential Character? Wolfram&Hart. They’re behind everything. 

Most Manipulative Character? Big scale: Jasmine, and Wolfram&Hart, but smaller scale: Lilah and Darla. Overall, Wolfram&Hart. 

Best Performance in an Episode? Amy Acker in Shells. 

Most Visually Stunning Episode? Are You Now or Have You Ever Been.

Most Impressive Special Effects? Shells. I love the slow-motion scenes and Illyria transforming into herself. 

Character with the Best Aesthetics? Lilah Morgan. 

Favorite Song? The main theme, I guess. Or Mandy!

Best Writer? Tim Minear. He wrote most of the best episodes. Ask any AtS fan to name their favorite episodes and half of them are probably his. 

Favorite Theme? Depression, which the show explores from different angles: isolation (every season except for 3 kind of), lack of purpose (seasons 1, 2 and 5 especially), loss, anger, sadness, etc. It’s what makes the show so relatable and timeless.  

5 Words You Associate _____ With? Timeless, deep, silly, inspiring, progressive (for TV in general, not politically). 

This was hard! Thanks for the ask!

[we-pay-for-everything]

Is there a storyline you wish had happened o AtS but didn't?

This is an excellent question. If only I had a better answer. 

Any storyline involving Gunn. He knew L.A better than anyone, he had friends who fought demons too, he had experience. All of that could’ve been used in a few episodes, at least. 

This isn’t a storyline per se, but a more thorough background of the characters. How did Gunn become a vampire hunter? How did he get to a position of leadership? What was it like for Wesley to grow up learning to become a Watcher? How did Lorne establish Caritas? 

More Anne! I think Anne, like Faith, represents Angel well. She’s all about hope, accepting help, finding your purpose in life, being kind, never giving up, relying on your friends. An episode per season of Anne could’ve been great - like a thread that unified the seasons. Plus, she’s just interesting. 

In retrospect. Vampires have first hand accounts of history. They remain unchanged by time while also evolving. In AYNOHYEB, that particularly racist and dark period influenced Angel negatively, yet he didn’t relate to that mentality. Angel’s self-hatred was at an all time low in the 40s, but he was happier in the 80s because he liked Barry Manilow. Darla and Dru seemed to have been happier in the 19th century. Spike was permanently stuck in the 80s, but Angel got along best with teenagers and 20 year olds of the 90s. How was Angel’s mental health, his beliefs about religion and redemption, his faith in humanity, a product of time? Would Angel have killed sick humans and “lowlifes” after being ensouled, had it happened in 1970s as opposed to the 1870s? There was room in the show for more flashback episodes. It made sense to have explored Angel’s past more.

The history of Wolfram&Hart. How was W&H created? The origins of the Wolf, the Ram and the Hart are mentioned in passing, but due to their importance, more info was required. Imagine a flashback of Illyria/Jasmine interacting with W&H? Or of Angel(us) unknowingly crossing paths with W&H and getting their attention. So many possibilities. 

Thanks for the ask! Sorry for the answer. 

[we-pay-for-everything]

Angel - five main character traits - stoic, petty, compassionate, intellectual, devoted

Hi! Thanks for indulging me!

Stoic: This, to me, is one of his main traits. However, after the Darla arc, the writers turned Angel into someone who was as goofy as he was stoic. In my head, the real Angel (BtVS s1-s3, AtS s1-Epiphany, s4) is stoic. But goofy Angel, the product of bad writing, is canon too. I’ll always see Angel as a stoic character though, and I think it characterizes him well.  

Petty: I wouldn’t call it a major trait. I think Angel’s pettiness is somewhat random. Joss loves it and accentuates it as often as he can. While I agree that Angel is petty, I don’t see it as a defining trait, personally. 

Compassionate: This is a major one for me but I’d say it’s more empathy than compassion. Angel’s capacity to relate to others is natural but he can turn it off too (Ie. in AYNOHYEB, Angel let apathy and cynicism triumph over his desire to help others), so while being compassionate is a major trait of Angel’s, it’s not just a personality trait, but also something he works very hard for, something he had to learn.

Intellectual: The way I see it, Angel’s intellectuality was big at first, during BtVS and AtS s1. However, that side of him didn’t align with his AtS role of leadership and heroics. The intellectual, sensitive types are a teen fantasy that the writers explored on BtVS. On AtS, the intellectual role was filled by Wes and Fred. Imo, the writers dumbed Angel down throughout the seasons. Angel’s always strategic, intelligent, pragmatic, idealistic. Yet, while intellectuality is pretty subjective, it doesn’t define him in the end. 

Devoted: I definitely agree with this one. Angel is devoted. He functions best when there’s something he can be devoted towards. A champion, a father, a friend, a boyfriend, a CEO, a P.I... Angel committed to all of these roles to the best of his ability, even when he was forced into them. 

In my opinion, Angel is: 

Empathetic: We already covered this one. Angel can relate to people, he can inspire them, he can forgive them, he can help them. He wouldn’t be a champion without this trait. Angel does things with purpose. Redemption is one purpose, and helping people is another. 

Strong: Angel can endure almost anything. He’s resilient, hard to corrupt, moral. To me, one of Angel’s most impressive talents is his ability to move forward with his life, to reinvent himself when needed. 

Unbalanced: Despite his qualities, Angel is often unhinged. In season 2, he let a vendetta and his need for redemption ruin his life. In season 4, he let his feelings of disappointment and inferiority destroy his son. In season 5, he couldn’t balance being a champion and a CEO. Angel’s emotional state, his relationships, his job, are always on the line and in conflict. His permanent struggle with depression is a consequence of this. 

Heroic: Angel thrives on nobility and heroics. Angel tries to live with his conscience and find forgiveness by putting on this role of hero and martyr. His intentions are pure and genuine, but Angel becomes dependent on fulfilling his role as champion, which is why I consider it a character trait.

Daring: Angel defies expectations. He dares to dream big, dares to piss off anyone he doesn’t agree with. He’s a champion because he doesn’t let himself be cowered by powerful people. He does his job his own way. 

Thanks for the ask! This was harder that I thought it’d be! 

Send me a Character + 5 Main Personality Traits...And I’ll tell you whether or not I agree with the description + What my 5 main personality traits for the character are.

[we-pay-for-everything]

Sorry that you are a feeling unwell. Sending you a hug. What are your favorite Gunn episodes?

I’m feeling better now, but you guys are great! Thank you. I’m sending all of you a hug too :)

I’m not just choosing Gunn-centric episodes, because most of those sucked, tbh. I’m including the episodes when I love Gunn most! In order:

Judgment: love Gunn’s official introduction to Cordelia and Wes. 

AYNOHYEB: Gunn and Wesley’s bickering is hilarious. 

Redefinition: awesome Gunn/Wesley/Cordelia bonding time. 

Blood Money/Happy Anniversary/The Thin Dead Line: (season 2 was great for Gunn!) I love Gunn/Wes/Cordelia and the Gunn/Anne BROTP. 

Tomorrow: ONLY because Gunn and Fred are cute there! 

Deep Down: I like Gunn and Fred playing house, haha. 

Players: probably my favorite Gunn-centric episode. 

Shells/Underneath/Origin: I like Gunn’s arc here. His regret for what happened to Fred and his atonement. 

Not Fade Away: what a badass babe, and love him and Anne! 

It’s hard to choose my favorite Gunn episodes, alright?! But thanks for the ask!

[we-pay-for-everything]

I’ve seen people draw paralells between Klaroline and Bangel. As someone who ships them both, do you see those ships as having major similarities?

Honestly, there are a few parallels, if you try to find them, but it’s a bit of an insult to Bangel to compare it to Klaroline. Angel’s good, Klaus’s an asshole, Buffy and Angel share mutual love, respect and trust, and Klaus and Caroline don’t. 

I think, because Klaus is bad but has a bit of a redemption arc, that people feel he resembles Angel, with Buffy and Caroline both having an humanizing effect of their men. However, Angel’s redemption is true. He’s a good person that didn’t kill people with a soul lightly, and decides to make amends for all the wrong he did. This decision was made before he officially met Buffy. You can trace Angel’s desire for redemption and to self-flagellate all the way back to AYNOHYEB and his 20 year stint in the alleys. Whistler gave Angel a choice, and a way to realize his desire to be better and do more, and Angel took it. Obviously, his connection to Buffy - how he related to what she was experiencing - also drove him to that decision, but it was more than that. It came from within Angel and not Buffy. 

The thing with Klaus is that he, like Damon, don’t truly change. They have fake redemption arcs. Redemption involves a person deciding they want to change and continuously making the choice to be different. This choice needs to come from within and can’t be dependent on another person. If, without a love interest, that person goes back to what they were or if they go back and forth, then that’s not redemption at all. Klaus talks a good game on The Originals about wanting to be redeemed but he kills and destroys lives without remorse. He only acts pouty about it when Karoline or Cami complain. Damon, likewise, only does nice things for Elena, or even Stefan. That’s not redemption, so Klaroline and Bangel aren’t comparable in that way. 

What the two ships might have in common is that Klaus’s eternal love is similar to Angel’s, and that Klaus lets Caroline in more than other people, like Angel with Buffy. Caroline and Buffy are also perky, sassy, badass blondes but I don’t see many comparisons beyond that.

Thanks for the ask! Sorry that this became an ask about the dissimilarities between Klaroline and Bangel...