#avuncular incest

[litcest]

There's uncle niece incest on your family??? Drop the lore pls 🙏

uhhhhh the day i find a way to tell the story without sharing identifying information about me, I'll tell

[cleromancy]

ppl who r like "solid is raidens uncle" are so dunb like. First of all solidus is not actually raidens adoptive father solidus was quite literally being delusional and grandiose, you don't automatically become a childs father by killing their parents and inducting them into your child soldier army that's not how it works. secondly solidus is nothing to dave they never met and being cloned from the same source is not like actually the same as being brothers lol especially if neither of the clones in question see it that way. pleeeeaaaaaase stop trying to project nuclear family structure where none exists its embarrassing. you can want them to be non-romantically important to each other without validating solidus's bugfuck insane worldview or claiming that it'd be incest if they made out

[agentrouka-blog]

Lol if there is a significance to aria and danny flint, well... Anon, did you already accept that jon and sansa will marry basing on jonnel and sansa's names in the family tree????? 🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃 🤡

Yes, it proves that avuncular marriages is acceptable in the North and foreshadows just such a marriage in the future for Jon and Dany! <3

Conversely, Jonnel-Sansa never had kids, so this means that GRRM went out of his way to prove that Jon and his (still official) sister Sansa are NEVER going to be a happy couple, in a hidden family tree easter egg, even though no one asked about Stark sibling incest to begin with.

[atopvisenyashill]

the fandom interpretation of j0nerys is honestly so fucking boring, avuncular marriages are not uncommon in westeros so it doesn’t work as a forbidden romance either, what’s the point if there isn’t any hate-sex? 🙄😒 same with jonsa tbh, if jon doesn’t feel like he’s betraying ned and catelyn and GOD i don’t want it!

This ask is four days old and I can't believe I never saw it because that's EXACTLY my thoughts. If it's incest, it needs to be full of toxicity and guilt and weird consenst dynamics or I REBUKE IT!!

I actually have meta on whether avuncular marriages are considered incest or not in Westeros that's like 90% written (the answer is: it's kinda complicated and may even vary geographically?) but the fandom interpretation of like, Jonerys being the one good relationship either ever has before dying, the "sweet smelling" rose is sooooooo boring. Where is the Maegor-Rhaena "I love you because I believe you are owed to me and I'll show you by murdering your shitty weak husband and making you queen and making your daughter my heir" dysfunction?? Where is the Daemyra "My war mongering older relative grooms me into believing that the only way my enemies don't brutally slaughter my children is if I marry him and let him fight a bloody war in my name while also abandoning me because he can't deal with the cost of that war so the children he was meant to be protecting die anyway and then I'm eaten by a dragon" toxic sludge of a ship??

And as for Jonsa, I think I've mentioned it before a few times, but there's generally two camps for that ship, one that thinks its going to end happily and one that thinks its going to end tragically and I am firmly in the tragedy camp. I need Jon to think something along the lines that he's wound up being the exact sort of monster Catelyn always worried he'd be by ~seducing~ Sansa. I need him to cry in the godswood and beg Ned for forgiveness. I need him in the crypts touching the stone face of his mother and wondering if she'd hate him. I need religious worry from Sansa that she's damned in the eyes of her mother's gods. I need Sansa choosing between whether outing Jon's real parentage (and putting his life on the line as a Targaryen bastard) is worth the risk so they can marry legally, and decide it's not worth it and choose his life and freedom over being known as a Targaryen. If she's not weeping and telling him that his life is worth more to her GEORGE CAN KEEP IT. If it's not sad traumabonding while Bran and Arya are side eyeing because we all got trauma but seven hells you two fucking freaks, I would literally rather it just not be canon and them both to end single or Jon to end up with Aegon/Arianne and Sansa with Brienne LET ME LIVE.

[familyromantic]

New pinned!

Hello, everyone!! This is a blog about fictional incest ships ❣��

My name is Elizabeth

I'm an adult

My pronouns are she/her

English is my second language (first language is Russian), so I may make mistakes

I'm a proshipper/comshipper. (Fiction DOES affect reality, but fiction is not reality)

I'm mentally ill, I hope for your understanding and kindness

My other blog: @liveactionproblematicotd

My YouTube channel about shipcest (it was deleted, sorry!)

List of all media with canon incest that I have read, watched and played

I like sibling and avuncular incest, also cousins

Cousins/distant relatives/non-blood relatives is NOT incest to me (I still post them here)

I don't necessarily ship all the couples I post about!

I would love to talk/become mutuals, so don't be shy if you want to!

MAP/NOMAP/zoo/necro/real life incest DNI (unless it's a post specifically discussing paraphilias/consanguinamory, then you can interact). If you post pro-consang things in a way that's not clear you're not consang yourself, I'm not gonna waste my time clarifying either

If you twist my posts about fiction to make them look like it's about irl incest being normal, I will curse you 😊

Posts on this blog can contain slight to medium NSFW (no fully naked bodies, guro, etc.), swear words. 16+ recommended. Younger than 14 strictly DNI (I will block you). Most ships on this blog are shown in a romantic light, which does not mean these relationships are ideal or healthy. Use critical thinking

For antis: I respect DNIs, but I don't always remember to check them. So I apologise if I interacted accidentally. If you don't have a DNI though and I reblogged your post and now you're mad, that's on you (I will delete the post though, if you let me know)

Thank you for reading! :)

[sherlokiness]

Alys Karstark's uncle was also forcing her to marry him to get her inheritance. You are right that avuncular marriage isn't considered a taboo in westeros, even though it is very rare, only done to usurp women's inheritance. Cousin marriage is also not considered a taboo, Rickard and Lyarra being cousins as well as Tywin and Joanna. Only sibling and parent incest is taboo. And for Targaryens, sibling incest is ok too.

Hi, Nonny. Thanks for the ask.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Jon breaking up with Dany just because she's his aunt certainly will never happen in the books. JD virtually had no reason in the show not to get married but D&D just won't can't let them and even had to invent a ridiculous reason like Jon being icked by aunt/nephew "incest" cause he's a Stark from the North. How come Jon suddenly had modern sensibilities unlike the rest of the people in Planetos?

Tbh, I'm just imagining D&D asking George for why they absolutely can't have Jon and Dany marry when they're supposedly in love and George just goes "incest." They took that to mean he's icked by it when it's the opposite. He's a vile bastard who will fall in love with his sister. George probably also threw in Sansa's name in all the discussions bc she's basically the reason Jon shanked Dany.🫣🫣

Anyways, it's still George's fault partly for not finishing the books. I'm of the opinion that jonsa is GRRM's last card only meant for the books so that's why some of the math are not mathing in the show.

[nlights37]

In the ASOIAF Universe

Avuncular relationships are not considered incest. I know everyone reading this knows that but just putting that out in the universe YET FUCKING AGAIN and maybe it will permeate the thick local skulls out there.

Yes, even the precious, pious Starks engaged in avuncular relationships. My VERY favorite example is Jonnel and Edric Stark. Now, Jonnel and Edric were born from the union of Lady Lynara Stark (wife #3) and Lord Cregan Stark (Yes, THAT Cregan).

Now our two brothers, Jonnel and Edric, had a half-brother from Cregan’s first marriage to Lady Arra Norrey, named Rickon, who was of course older than our bros. Rickon and his wife Jeyne Manderly had two daughters, Sansa and Serena.

So what are two brothers to do? When hunting for wives? Why, marry your half-brother’s daughters of course! And they did. The two Stark brothers married their half-nieces, and nobody said ‘boo’. (Edric and Serena went on to have four children, I’m unsure about Jonnel and Sansa.)

This example doesn’t even touch upon the endless cousin marriages but good lord. These fools intermarried over and over and over with half the North alone, back into the same families. The entire North is related by the time the books start 😂🤣

[kellyvela]

I just read someone on reddit say no one will care for RLJ, because Aegon takes away all the political implications, so it will just be a heart in conflict dilemma for Jon himself 😂😂 lol we discovered this ages ago. RLJ can only have personal effect on Jon, because as said Aegon (whether he is real or fake) already exposes the hypocrisy of Daenerys' claim, even Jon's personal relationship with Dany (if there is any) will not be affected by it because avuncular incest is already present in the Stark family tree. There is only ONE way RLJ can have a meaningful effect, and provide some reprieve for Jon. There is a reason this reveal felt useless in the show.

Perfectly said, Anon!

[magalidragon]

I think the problem is there wasn’t a law in Westeros that said either a female or male can rule. For some reason, it goes to the male and by primogeniture Jon’s “claim” would have been seen as stronger than Dany regardless of Aerys because he’s older. Dany knew this and that’s why she was worried and said to Jon as the last male Targaryen he had a stronger claim. I honestly wish that was something the show delved more into in the last season.

Hello Anon! I disregard the show’s interpretation because they also had Jon and the Starks all “ew incest!” when Ned’s parents were first cousins and the concept of avuncular relations was NOT taboo. The Targs were “taboo” and got the “dispensation” if you could call it that because they married brother to sister. THAT was taboo. But I digress.

I’m speaking to the books at this point. I also firmly believe that book!Jon is going to be like “I’m a Targaryen!? SWEET! DRACARYS!” once he gets through the shock of it. That emo child loved Targaryens. He will support Dany’s claim at the end of the day and off with their heads to those who don’t.

It’s just all misogynistic at the end of the day that Westeros thinks women can’t rule. They even think Dorne is weird for disregarding primogeniture. It’s like current Murica right now, thinking women are fragile creatures who need protecting and should only be pushing babies out.

[shipcestuous-two]

Idk if Jane Austen's Emma has come up before since it's only fauxcest, but I always liked Emma + George Knightley's dynamic, as he's the only one willing to criticize her and gives off huge Big Brother Vibes, and has always been in her life since she was little. Plus, since Emma's sister and Knightley's brother are married, it adds another layer of pseudo-relation.

I LOVE Emma and Knightley/Emma. This has been one of my favorite ships for the better part of my life. I can't even remember when I saw my first version of Emma but I couldn't have been older than 12, and that was a loooooong time ago. In fact, I think of it as almost a formative influence on my shipping and my writing because I love it so completely. (And Clueless too, which is a modernization of Emma and, in my opinion, the best execution of two characters who have known each other for a long time realizing they are in love.)

Normally fauxcest/pseudo-incest actually puts me off. Since I'm super into the real thing, the "light" or "pretend" version just feels like a waste of my time. But Emma/Knightly is different, it's like the perfect meeting between incest and a socially acceptable relationship.

For anyone not familiar, Emma is of course a Jane Austen novel, so we're talking 1800s England. Emma belongs to a wealthy landowning family and the Knightley family owns the estate/lands "next door". George Knightley, the eldest son, has inherited the property. His younger brother John is married to Emma's older sister Isabella. Mr. Knightley lives alone and Emma lives with her elderly father. The wealthy class of the village are all friends but Mr. Knightley is in particular friends with Emma and her father (in addition to the two families being in laws) and frequently spends time with them in their home.

You mentioned Big Brother Vibes, which I definitely think is accurate. He's significantly older but they do belong technically to the same generation, their siblings are married, they share a whole brood of nieces and nephews, etc. and It never seems to make any difference that he's older - but company was a lot more intergenerational back then, particularly in a small village like that - so Emma would be used to spending time mainly with people older than her and it wouldn't feel like a big deal. They definitely interact as equals - I think Jane Austen shows that very expertly and intentionally.

I like to think of Knightley also as an avuncular figure/uncle type. And I don't say that because of the age difference. I'm sure some of you prefer to think of him as a big brother figure, which like I said, I don't disagree with at all, it's very accurate, but for me what makes it feel incestuous rather than just two friends falling in love is that while they might be described as friends, it's not really the most precise description of their relationship - he's more like an uncle figure. He doesn't live with them, they have never lived together, like an uncle, but he's like close family, and interacts as much with Emma's father, Emma's sister, Emma's former governess/Mrs. Weston, as with her. Because it's common enough to say about a friend "he's like a brother to me", it's a common comparison, but when you think of him as being like an uncle to her you get that sense of his connection to the whole family.

I'm rambling. The important part is that he's definitely more than just a friend or neighbor. And he knows her so well, probably better than she would like, because he sees everything. He knows she's leading Harriet astray, and he knows she dislikes Jane Fairfax, and he's perfectly content to tell her that her painting and her singing and piano playing are only so-so. But you know that he loves her dearly, even before he's necessarily in love with her. Like family.

In the version with Mark Strong and Kate Beckinsale, Emma starts getting jealous when she thinks Mr. Knightly has feelings for Jane Fairfax and that he's considering a marriage of some kind. She had clearly been convinced that he would be a bachelor forever - hers forever, in a sense, like a member of the family. It's even mentioned that if he marries he can't be alone with her and Mrs. Weston anymore, he wouldn't be like family anymore if he married. And she's distraught at the idea that Mr. Knightley would have a son who would inherit his estate, rather than it going to the nephew they share. She has, or feels, a familial claim on his estate.

Good stuff. Thanks, Anon, for wanting to talk about these two.

[alinaastarkov]

"Incest is disgusting!!!" screams the lot that ignore how interwoven such relationships are in the books. like the most romantic pairing that is widely celebrated in-universe is incestuous (Aemon/Naerys) and if its not siblings, its avuncular (rhaenyra/daemon, jonerys, etc.) and if its not avuncular it's cousins (tywin/joanna, rickard/lyarra, lucerys/rhaena, arya/jon, etc.) If an integral part of the books grosses u out, don't read it. otherwise shut the fuck up and deal with it.

[joannalannister]

If incest is taboo in westeros culture how is that Tywin was allowed to mary his cousin Joanna?

You can’t make a blanket statement like "incest is taboo in Westeros" because some forms of incest are not taboo in Westeros. For example, avuncular marriages and cousin marriages are acceptable in Westeros. Sibling incest is not acceptable, unless you are a Targaryen. Only Craster practices parent-child incest, because parent-child incest is taboo in Westeros. If you would like to read more about this topic, I recommend the tag for #incest on @asoiafuniversity (If you’re reading on mobile, you might need to open the link in a browser.)

[fcparagon]

If D&D didn't screw everything up, do you think Jon would still be unable to look past his relation to Dany like he did here, ending their relationship for good? Or do you think he would eventually look past it because of how much he loves her and by the standards of the show it's not seen as wrong as it is to us today?

Hi Anon! Well, I’ve actually been thinking about this for the past few days, and there are two points that came to my mind.

First of all, for some reason, even though the show is set in medieval times, when it comes to “incest” and “avuncular relationships”, somehow they take the societal norms and ideas that belong to modern times. In the medieval ages, incest was a thing that was practiced within royal families to keep the bloodline pure. It’s what the Targaryens in the world of GOT does, and we see such a relationship happening within the Lannister family as well. Although, close relationships such as brother-sister, father-daughter, mother-son are seen as vile and sickening, avuncular relationships such as aunt-nephew and uncle-niece are acceptable in the world of GOT. The Starks had avuncular relationships in their family. So it was quite surprising to me when we saw Jon having trouble accepting a romantic relationship with Dany, and Varys pointing out that a marriage won’t be acceptable given the situation of their relationship, even though such relationships aren’t new in Westeros, aren’t new in the Stark family as well. I’m sure Book Jon would’ve had no problem accepting her as a companion at all, but I guess D&D transferred modern ideals over to the world of GOT in order to not freak out the fans, which actually doesn’t make any sense. There’s literally no reason for Jon to have this much of trouble accepting Dany.

But let’s agree with the whole “aunt-nephew relationship is bad” thing. It is a fact that Jon truly loves Dany, and Dany loves him. The problem with this season is that we don’t even see how Jon absorbs the truth about his parentage, his thoughts regarding Dany, and the fact that once the truth is out, we barely see them talking through it. I believe that if Jon had more time mulling things over, understand the change in the dynamic of his relationship with Dany, and if he, for once, had an open discussion with Dany about where they stand in this relationship, I believe that eventually, he would’ve gotten over this barrier that he created between them, and accept her fully. The reason why Dany gets her heart broken by him, is because, on the one hand, he keeps on saying that he loves her, that she will always be his queen, and on the other, when she tries to engage in some physical intimacy, he backs away without even explain why, or ask her to be patient with this whole shenanigan, because this is a huge deal, and he needs time to come in to terms with it all. He just stays silent and gapes at her like an idiot. Lack of communication between them is, what I think, one of the major reason why Jonerys is breaking apart. Had Jon reassured her, that he will be there for her, and that he just needs a bit of time to understand it all, then I believe Daenerys would’ve supported him. At this point, Daenerys believes that he no longer loves her, because he keeps on silently rejecting her, without even explaining why. He keeps on saying, “You’re my queen”, and that’s just not enough to reassure a woman who clearly wants him to see her as someone more than a queen. 

[agentrouka-blog]

honestly, the more I think about it, the more I feel like a Jon/D@enerys romance wouldn't even really be taboo or forbidden (not only by targ standards but in Westeros in general). Obv we have Jonnel and his brothers marrying their (half-)nieces, but we also have Arianne once having had a crush on her uncle Oberyn (although that might have just been GRRM trying to shock people). I can't see it as a satisfying narrative choice.

I agree so much!!

Avuncular marriage is not uncontroversial, but unlike any of the other kinds of incest marriage that the Targaryens practiced in Westeros, this is the one that actually has examples outside their House. Right in House Stark!

So given that, why would The Shocking Incest Reveal be a plotpoint there? Dany wouldn't care, and Jon wouldn't have to care, either. The only incest less controversial than that is cousin marriage.

Answer is, it wouldn't matter. They could easily marry. The real problem with them being related to each other (and Aegon, never forget Aegon) is the threat this poses to Dany's self-perceived legal claim to the throne, which IS superceded by Aegon and CAN easily be superceded by Jon even if he's bastard-born, should any king nefariously lift a finger to legitimize him. Like, say, a half-brother trying to sabotage his rival aunt. And that actual complex and interesting problem really only comes into its own if there is no romance but instead (entirely predictable) conflict between Dany and Jon.

(Agree about Arianne and Oberyn, too. A lot of Arianne's and the Sand Snakes' childhood seems to be spent reacting to the traumatized and neglectful behavior of the parent generation.)

[kateofthecanals]

I think that person meant that Westeros has no problem with materteral and avuncular (aunt/uncle with their brother/sister children) incest. And it's true, we see Vic proposing to marry Asha; Stark uncles marrying their nieces, Targs, etc. But I agree, I don't GRRM wants to leave that message. I think Jon/Dany will be romance (but given how abrupt it came about in the show, maybe they will be), but they're bound to work together to defeat the Others.

I’ve been in this fandom and on this site long enough to know when I’m being baited and there was nothing diplomatic about that person’s comment (also the Dany avi was a big giveaway—Dany stans, please leave me out of your ship wars with show-Sansa stans & J0nsas, thx!). And like I said in that previous ask, other instances of incest in the story do not automatically make it acceptable in-universe (Targ Exceptionalism, etc). Re: Victarion & Asha, I meeeaaaannnn... consider the source?? Vic is not exactly a shining member of society, his getting a boner over the thought of marrying his own niece was not meant to be endearing, lol.

As for Jon & Dany, I’ve said many times before that a marriage isn’t unlikely but I have a hard time seeing it as a romantic pairing, not the least of which because (a) I don’t think a resurrected-from-the-dead Jon will be capable of such a thing, but also (b) if he IS, he’s more likely to have those feelings for Val than Dany, imo.

[familyromantic]

Incest fanvid playlists

Reminder that I have playlists on YouTube for incest fan videos (that aren't made by me).

Brother/sister

Avuncular (all gender combinations)

Bonus:

Cousins

Not blood brother/sister

I update these playlists regularly as I find videos!