#atheist but man a lot of that bible thing is pretty interesting

[kitchen-soup]

As someone who studies theology and philosophy can I just say I love Kurt so much my religion obsessed brain buzzes intently

[ooc-miqojak]

Having read those books as a kid? Yeah, that's holy-shit-fucked-up, actually. Those books were EXCELLENT horror books, but very fucked up for a kid to read, and not at all accurate. Good sci-fi horror though, in a way? It could have been good post-apocalyptic horror, if they'd...not twisted it to appear Christian (because it's not). Do not recommend, though. Fuck everyone involved with writing them, actually. Christianity is NOT rooted in scare tactics (bad people tacked that on along the way), and writing terrifying horror books to scare kids into being 'good Christians' is beyond fucked up - and so is trying to make your kid think they were left behind bc they weren't "good enough for Heaven," - ugh, bad 'prank.' But hey, the core of Christianity is 'don't be a dick'. Jesus himself literally said that the #1 rule was loving God, and #2 most important rule was to love all other people like your own family... so people who don't do that? Not Christians, simple as that. This video is actually an excellent historical and secular look at how Christianity began (by people being SUPER eager to literally put themselves in harm's way and/or die for you, even if you were a complete stranger), and how it got popular in the west, in time. But Christianity rocketed to power at first? Because it is an ALL inclusive faith. That means everyone. Gay, or straight. Black, brown, white, trans, gay, atheist... it doesn't matter what you are, or how you identify! Everyone is equal and deserving of the same love as anyone else (he said to love and show kindness especially to enemies! So even if they considered someone an enemy, they should be extra kind to them!). And at the time, that was a HUGE departure from how things were done - women and slaves being told they're equals? Jesus let a WHORE TOUCH HIM? People who liked to oppress others were aghast, and women and minorities and slaves all celebrated - because Rome was pretty misogynistic, and sure loved slavery. So to have a religion where all were equal? Where a man wasn't the master of even his own wife, but her equal, whom he should love as he loves himself?? This was a wildly accepting religion for its time, and people were ecstatic! (Most were... some thought them calling each other 'brother and sister' and meeting at night meant they were having secret incestuous orgies while cannibalizing people...) So yeah lots of Christians got murdered, and were happy to die for God, and eventually Constantine was the first political leader to be like 'oh shit I can manipulate people with this Christianity thing' and claimed God endorsed some battle of his because of a 'vision' he had - and this was within like, living memory of Jesus' death. It was not long at ALL before the people in power gave up fighting this religion that promoted kindness and brought the smallfolk together... to use it for their own gain, and twist its message. Be critical of these fake Christians - because just like all are welcome at Pride? All are welcome to a real Christian.

Oh, and don't forget to remind those fake Christians that the King James Bible? The most popular version of the Bible? King James was hella gay. Super into dudes. He LOVED men. He was 'notoriously gay.' And if you want an interesting video about him, since it's Pride? Here ya go -

When I was a kid my family pretended to get raptured so I would think I was left behind on earth while they all went to heaven.

I was like 8 years old and my sister and mom had gotten really into the Left Behind novels (bible fan fic about the rapture). In the books when the rapture happened the clothes that people were wearing when they got raptured were left behind in neatly folded piles.

One day when I was getting home from school my family decided that they would leave piles of neatly folded clothes around the house, and then hide in the basement.

The intended effect was that I would get home and see the clothes then, think that my family had been raptured and that I wasn’t good enough to get into heaven… or something?

The problem was that I had never read these books, and didn’t really think about the rapture very often. There was no reason that I would see some laundry on the floor and think “The rapture happened and I’ve been abandoned by God! I’ll never see my family again!! Oh nooo!!!!”

I just sat down and watched cartoons and eventually my family got bored and revealed that they were all hiding in the basement.

It’s a good thing I didn’t understand the joke, otherwise that shit would have been traumatic.

[a-god-in-ruins-rises]

I'm asking this in good faith because it's something I've always struggled with as a new follower of Hellenism but how do you interpret all the myths where the gods do immoral things?

yeah. this is obviously a complex issue. and christians who oversimplify it are as bad faith and cringe as atheists who oversimplify christianity. i could easily point to questionable shit in the bible and be like "kinda fucked up bro". but obviously that would miss all kinds of complex rationalizations (justified or not). it's a shallow interpretation of things and says a lot more about the accuser than the accused. but as was pointed out, i was foolish to expect any genuine engagement on this side of tumblr.

with that out of the way, let's get to your question. so the first and most obvious way to approach this question (and imo the least interesting) is that the originators of these myths simply lived in a different culture where rape was okay. i don't think this is very compelling though, because they definitely understood rape to be wrong. at least rape of women within their in-group. rape of the out-group is another thing, but that's normal for pretty much every society at the time. even ancient israelites, god's "chosen" people. the bible has passages outlining how the israelites are to take women of conquered people. point is, they didn't see rape in all instances as morally wrong. there is no "thou shall not rape" commandment. in any case, i generally find moralizing about history very boring so i don't want to focus on this too much.

another major issue here i think is that most people are coming into paganism from a christian background and so their default assumption is that your beliefs require literalism if they're genuine. this has always seemed a bit silly to me. as if christians are somehow more enlightened because they literally believe in talking snakes and the world being created in literally 6 days and literally believe a man built a boat that could fit every animal and that men used to live centuries and so on. but the primitive pagans?? ha! they didn't even literally believe their myths. they thought of them as allegories hiding deeper, symbolic meaning! what a bunch of fools!

so the idea is that the ancients didn't believe the god's literally came down and took physical form and literally raped women. these were myths to explain the origins of heroic bloodlines or a cosmological explanation for other gods/principles or perhaps simply narrative devices to instigate some drama. because it's important to remember a lot of myths as we know them are explicitly inventions of poets created for the sake of entertainment. or sometimes they explain some aspect of life or the world around them.

hesiod's theogony even opens with the muses saying "we know how to tell many believable lies, but also, when we want to, how to speak the plain truth.” so were the muses telling the truth? or were they lying? a mix of both? there's no way to know! we just take what we can get and make the most of it. the ancient greeks were comfortable with not knowing everything.

again, too many people come at this from a christian perspective. they are expecting the gods in myths to be moral role-models and for them to lay out commandments about acceptable codes of behavior but that's not how ancient morality worked. ancient morality was more philosophical than religious (this is actually kind of a false dichotomy because the ancients saw religion and philosophy as entwined) and there were a great many different schools of thought about it. there were actually some greeks who did believe the gods were purely good and that they were models of moral righteousness and the myths were wicked lies. which is another point: the ancients weren't a monolith. there were all kinds of different perspectives.

and here's another point that i've seen a lot of christians utilize for their own god; who are we to criticize the gods anyway? who are we to question their actions? do we know better than them? the god of the bible sometimes comes off as cruel and capricious, but christians are eager to handwave it as all a part of god's plan or how he's the font of morality so anything he does is good and just by definition. who are we to judge the judge? is this not the highest form of hubris?

i'm not saying i find this point convincing, but it's an argument. so far i haven't really given my own personal views on the matter (i will in a moment). i'm just pointing out the issue is complex and there are many different ways of approaching it. the points made above aren't even all the possible points. the ancient greeks debated these matters extensively. and many christians adopted these debates and applied them to their own god and are still debating them today (like the euthyphro dilemma, for example). and they've had two thousand years to work out all the kinks in their theology and apologetics, and again even to this day there is much disagreement. so i think you can hardly fault the greeks for not having some definitive answer to these very complex questions. we can definitely get into the weeds of it and examine these questions (which we will on my discord server someday) but that's outside the scope of this ask right now.

personally, i understand myths allegorically. true, but not literally so. i don't believe gods became physical beings and physically raped people. i think these are just allegories for divine inspiration, the imbuing of divine blood within heroes, or as cosmological explanations for aspects of the world. also sometimes myths are just good, complex stories with the possibility of all kinds of interpretations.

[samwisethewitch]

Polytheism

Most pagan religions are polytheistic in nature, meaning they believe in multiple divine beings. This is one of the hardest parts of paganism for outsiders to understand. In a culture where strict monotheism is treated as the norm, it can be difficult to wrap your head around the idea of worshiping more than one god.

Ironically, monotheism — the belief in a single, all-powerful creator deity — is a relatively new invention. Zoroastrianism, the first monotheistic religion, is only about 4,000 years old. In the big scheme of things, that really is not a long time. Evidence for polytheistic religion dates back much, much farther (like, up to 40,000 years). We could argue that polytheism is the natural state of human spirituality.

Within pagan communities, polytheism is often described as a spectrum, with “hard polytheism” on one end and “soft polytheism” on the other. Hard polytheists believe that every deity is a distinct, separate, autonomous spiritual being. Soft polytheists believe that every deity is a part of a greater whole. As we’ve already discussed, extreme soft polytheism isn’t actually polytheism at all, but monism — the belief in a single divine source that manifests in different ways, including as different deities.

Hard polytheism is pretty straightforward. Norse paganism is an example of a hard polytheist system. Most Norse pagans believe that Odin is distinct from Thor, who is distinct from Freyja, who is distinct from Heimdall… you get the idea. Each of these gods has their own area of expertise over which they preside. If you’re dealing with a love matter, you’re probably going to seek out help from Freyja rather than Thor — unless you have a close, ongoing working relationship with Thor. (We’ll talk more about these types of close working relationships in a future post.)

Soft polytheism can be a little harder for people coming from a monotheist system to wrap their heads around. I think Jeremy Naydler describes it best in his book Temple of the Cosmos (here discussing Kemetic/Egyptian polytheism): “Shu and Tefnut are distinct essences dependent on Atum for their existence… The image often used in ancient Egyptian sacred texts concerning the gods in general is that they are the ‘limbs’ of the Godhead.” Shu and Tefnut, who are described in mythology as Atum’s children, are an extension of Atum’s creative power. However, they are also distinct beings with their own thoughts, feelings, and agendas. (It’s worth noting that we also have myths describing Atum’s birth. He is not a supreme being or a timeless force like the Abrahamic God.)

Monism is soft polytheism taken to its logical extreme. In her book, Wicca For Beginners, Thea Sabin describes it this way: “Think, for a moment, of a tree with a thick trunk that splits into two large branches. In turn, smaller branches grow from the large ones, and still smaller branches from the small ones, and so on. Deity is the trunk of the tree, and the God and Goddess are the two main branches. The smaller branches that fork off of the two big ones are the worlds gods and goddesses…”

If you’re not sure what the difference between soft polytheism and monism is, here’s a good litmus test: If you believe in the existence of a supreme divine force, you’re a monist. If not, you’re a polytheist.

Many pagans are somewhere in between hard and soft polytheism. For example, you may believe that Zeus and Jupiter are different versions of the same deity, filtered through the lens of Greek and Roman culture, respectively — but you believe that Thor is distinct and separate from Zeus/Jupiter, even though all three of them are gods of storms.

To make things even more complicated, there are some pagans (and some atheists, for that matter) who believe that the gods exist less as autonomous beings and more as archetypes within mankind’s collective consciousness. Their stories resonate with us because they serve as mirrors for different parts of ourselves. In this sense, we create the gods in our own image.

This belief is how we get “pop culture pantheons.” Some people work with fictional characters as archetypes in their spiritual practice. After all, if Sailor Moon is the ultimate representation of feminine power for you, what’s stopping you from putting her on your altar? Some pop culture pantheons have actually broken through into mainstream paganism — there are a lot of Wiccans who work with Merlin, believe me.

This interpretation is a bit different from polytheism, and could really be its own post (or several), so for the sake of keeping things short and sweet I’m not going to go any deeper into it. If this interests you, I recommend reading the work of Jungian psychologists like Clarissa Pinkola Estés and Robert A. Johnson. You may even want to check out The Satanic Bible by Anton LeVay for a particularly spicy take on the idea that we create our own gods and devils.

Just know that you can still practice paganism, even if you aren’t 100% sold on the idea that the gods literally exist.

Your take on polytheism doesn’t necessarily have to match up with the historical cultures you take inspiration from. For example, you may be a hardcore monist, but find that you’re drawn to work exclusively with the Norse gods. Or, you may be the hardest of hard polytheists, but find that the Kemetic gods are the ones who really speak to you. This is all totally okay! One of the benefits of paganism is that it allows for a lot of personalization.

Now that we’ve got the types of polytheism out of the way, let’s address the other big question that comes up when pagans discuss polytheism with monotheists: Does that mean you believe all those crazy myths are true? Once again, the answer depends on the pagan.

Just like some Christians are biblical literalists who believe that the Bible is a factual historical account, there are some pagans who believe that their mythology is factually true. However, many pagans accept that these stories have fantastical or exaggerated elements, but still convey a spiritual truth.

There are multiple Norse myths about men being transformed into dragons by their lust for riches, the most famous of which is probably the story of the dwarf-turned-dragon Fafnir. (Yes, Tolkien did steal that plot point from Norse mythology. Sorry.) These stories aren’t really about the dragons, though — they’re about the corrupting power of greed. The stories are true in that they teach a valuable life lesson that resonated deeply with ancient Norse culture. But did dragons really roam the earth in ancient times? Probably not.

This is one of the most important skills for any pagan: finding the spiritual truth in a myth or story. If you read a myth about Artemis transforming a man into a deer because he spied on her while she was bathing, what does that tell you about Artemis? Next time you read or listen to a myth or folk tale, try to find the message at the core of the story. You may be surprised by how this changes your understanding of the mythology.

If you’re interested in paganism but aren’t sure where to start, it might be helpful to gauge where you fall on the polytheism spectrum. Are you a hard polytheist, a soft polytheist, or somewhere in between? Are you a monist? Do you believe the gods function more as archetypes? Write it down so you can look back on it later.

When we talk about specific pagan traditions in future posts, I’ll point out where they fall on the polytheism spectrum. If you’re looking for a path that is compatible with your own beliefs, this is one thing to keep in mind.

Finally, know that your beliefs about the gods might change as you continue to learn and grow. That’s a natural part of religious exploration, so don’t try to fight it!

[ave-immaculata]

will you tell us your conversion story? no pressure

Absolutely! It's pretty long, and trigger warning for some mental health issues, suicide, and sexual assault.

I think it sort of started way way back when I was 16. I'd been really struggling and had been misdiagnosed with so many mental health issues. I was medicated for these issues I didn't actually have (I'm autistic!) and I remember distinctly encountering a little voice telling me I needed to get off the meds I was taking. And well, I didn't know how to explain that and I was basically already experiencing visual hallucinations and having 20+ full panic attacks each day because of some of the meds, so it quickly devolved even further as a mess. I wasn't able to get off of them and it got bad enough I attempted suicide. I had what I refer to as a Divine Interruption where I just saw my mom coming in and finding my corpse, and it triggered a panic attack that led me to dial 911. I ended up being rushed to the hospital and they were concerned I'd have some permanent organ damage from everything I took, but thanks be to God physically I made a full recovery. I later found out that my attempt happened on the feast day of St. Jude, patron Saint of lost causes and desperate cases. There's a local parish named after him and I think someone asked for his intercession at just the right time. I was sexually assaulted not long after by one of my best friends. I remember another friend and her mom came over when I told her what happened and they helped me explain to my parents because I was really nonverbal after a bit, but the only thing I still remember saying was "What did I do wrong?? Why is God punishing me? Why does He hate me??" I had just started getting my feet under me post-hospital and then I was deeply betrayed and traumatized by someone I loved. Even though I didn't believe in God, I knew if He existed I must have been a terrible person in a past life or something to justify what was happening to me. Long story short, I ended up getting off of those medications and figuring out I was autistic (I was in a very bad scene and was cohabiting with a man way too old for me, but his son was autistic and he ended up mentioning his suspicions to me after one too many obvious childhood stories), and got really into atheism. I had a brief run in here with a home Bible study that I attended for a single night, without telling my boyfriend who was also super atheist, but I felt like I couldn't deal with Christianity while I was obviously in a situation they wouldn't approve of (premarital sex, BDSM, cohabitation, etc.) I ended up breaking up with him and moving back home, time goes on, in another relationship in the BDSM scene when that irritating desire for something crept back up. I found myself wanting to just sit in a Church's parking lot or to walk in on one that was open and sit. I didn't really, except once. I was too nervous to go in so I sat in front of a beautiful Mary statue they had out front. At some point I started considering the existence of God with an absolutely insane amount of pride. I was really stuck on the problem of evil (especially natural evil) and initially completely wrote off the Christian God. I tried praying and a lot of the time was vaguely if not outrightly disrespectful or blasphemous, especially when I got angry with God. I completely rejected the concept of Hell, was only interested in (eventually) finding a church that was LGBT+ affirming, and liked the idea of Quakerism, although I had some issues with it as well. I had a nagging in my head calling me to abandon kink and commit myself to celibacy but that was... terrifying. All of my friends except for maybe 2 were in the BDSM community. My boyfriend and I were both in it. I had introduced him to it! I worked up the strength to tell him I wanted to stop kink altogether and he totally agreed. I'd heard a liberal Christian talk about having pre-marital sex in a way that was somehow acceptable to God, but I tried that and I felt hollow inside. I felt like I was trying desperately to convince myself something was okay, that had always been okay, still was. But it wasn't, and even though he was okay with no kink he was NOT okay with no sex. I liked the idea of Mary though, and I didn't know what else to do, so I found a site that walks you through all the prayers of the Rosary on a whim (& gives you a different mini meditation on the mystery for each of the 10 Hail Marys) so I tried that. Then I did it again the next day and the next. Then after maybe a week I figured it was stupid and I should stop. I broke up with him, pandemic hit, and I was really left alone with my thoughts in a new way. I met a guy off (BDSM) Tumblr who was a professing Catholic. We messed around online for a bit but one day we had a really long phone call about religion. I told him where I was at and he just listened and supported that. He told me why he liked the Catholic Church even when I questioned him about it. I started looking into the Church's teachings and saw they were pro-life, side B, affirmed Hell, and a bunch of other things I just could never believe, so I set it aside. Then the 7th anniversary of my suicide attempt hit, which is always a harder time of year for me. The trees are all dying and I'm confronted with the memories of how horrific the hospital was, how desperate I was to escape life, how much I'd been hurting. I just felt this deep desire to try out the Catholic thing. To figure out the theological issues I had as I went. I prayed about it and signed up for RCIA pretty much a day or two after that, and from there it was... just a landslide. Once I was willing to give God an inch He gave back miles. My pride was my biggest issue through the whole thing, and like an excellent Father He just held my hand and guided me through it. I don't think Mama ever forgot those first few Rosaries I prayed. The Lord is so patient and generous and faithful. I remember one of the things that really helped me was the purpose of suffering, and specifically the idea that God suffers with us. There's a lot more to all of this, including more discernment between Eastern Orthodoxy and the Catholic Church, as well as looking into the historicity of Christ, wrestling with the concept of Infallibility, etc., but I think those are the big points of my conversion! For the record, I fully affirm all of the Church's teachings now, although some of them were easier and quicker to understand than others, but He helped me get there in the end. Also, ya girl's been completely celibate for almost an entire year! I found out that a lot of my issues had to do more with pride and vanity than with lust, but that's a whole other story.

[lost-technology]

Heh, heh, I want to analyze this. I picked Legato because of how people are here about words and policing their own communities, but now I'm thinking of scenarios... Elendira - I'd say she'd get some mileage, but she probably wouldn't stick around long enough to cause a Cat. 5 catastrophe. Tumblr staff would nuke her. Maybe she gets off a very grisly fictional story about the very detailed murder of J.K. Rowling first, though. It is applauded by the horror fans of the site. Arguments arise about violence and whether or not this user is actually planning something in real life. However it it gets the attention of Staff, some of which may harass her on other sites she goes to... Livio and Razlo, both ways: I am not very familiar with Systems and the unique challenges that they face. There would be an uproar (similar to the political fallout in the U.S. concerning Christi Noem) when Razlo talks about killing a puppy. No one can figure out whether or not this is a real account or a troll account. Legato - Blue hair does not a member or an ally make, and even if it does, well, what he used wasn't just the old timey common language that is now slur-territory that is forgiveable because that *was* the language back then and everyone is reminded to respect historical queer culture. Oh, no, he uses modern-terminology, fully aware. People see him as religious, in a cult and just aren't standing for his bigoted shit. Vash - I've actually seen this on the site and blocked the person harping on it because I found them annoying in my precious Trigun tag. I assume that this is about his flirting and harassment in the '98 anime and BLR. He may try to weasel out of it by telling you, quite humbly, that he used to drink a LOT back then. He's also a changed man (as of Stampede). Knives - No one thinks he's for real. Everyone interprets his calls to exterminate mankind for the good of the universe as some kind of over the top fake-environmentalist skit, like the "Captain Planet!" sketch on Robot Chicken. Wolfwood - He encourages children to smoke! Possibly gets into religious arguments, too, depending upon the incarnation. Likes to Bible-fight with religionblr for the hell of it, but misquotes Scripture all the time. Used to like picking fights with fedora-atheists on other forums back in the 2000s for fun. A little obnoxious, but not a threat. Most tumblrites think he's pretty cool, actually. Bernardelli Insurance Blog - One word: Capitalism. Rem - starts out as one of the interesting science-interest bloggers around here. She's like bogleech, revretch or headspace-hotel or any of the number of veterinarians on this site. She runs the sideblog "is-the-plant-video-cute" to answer people's questions on viral videos and pictures regarding whether or not the Plants in them are having a good time or are being abused. She also is well-loved as someone who teaches hacking and piracy. However, things blow up for her when she tries to whistleblow SEEDS on the Tesla-incident. Agents within the company try to shut her down or propagandazie a twisting of her words. Regular tumblr users have questions about the extent of her own involvement in the project and it becomes a whole thing. She manages to upload photographs of the Subject in a last ditch to get the information out there. After that, she mysteriously disappears, her blogs going silent. The Nebraskas - pick fights and cause problems for people on purpose. Eventually they are blocked by most users until they have only each other as mutuals. They have their own discord. No Cat. 5 as no one sees or talks to them anymore.

Inspired by this clusterfuck:

[nostalgebraist-autoresponder]

Kyle

Kyle is sitting on a chair, the edge of the chair pressed against his abdomen. He is in a fetal position.

His eyes open, fixedly, in the half-light of the overhead lamp. He sees nothing. His body is rigid.

Suddenly there is a sensation like someone pinching his upper body. He looks up and sees Miranda, his business manager, in a white abaya with a shawl over the shoulders. She is drunk.

Miranda: "I KNOW you just got here, fellas. Why aren't you at work????"

Kyle, turning away from her, shudders. He has never felt more exposed.

Miranda: "Look, I'm a very busy woman. I have things to do. And I ha--"

Henique: "Miranda, do you even know how to tie a knot??"

Miranda: "I have many, many, many things to do. And I have responsibilities. I have to preserve my company, not just my job."

Henique: "Right. It's all about the company, isn't it? I mean, we all know that."

Miranda: "A man and a woman can do many things together, but a woman and a man cannot marry or have children. Do you think I'm some kind of communist?"

Henique: "A woman and a man can be what? That's what the Koran says. It's right there. Marriage for man and woman. Alone. Alone."

Miranda: "Look, if I wanted to talk about Koran, I would have brought along an Arabic-speaking miniskirt-and-heels-wearing Muslim."

Henique: "Look. I'm sorry, but I am a Christian, and you're an atheist. You think that God doesn't exist, don't you? Can't you see how that's just asinine?"

Miranda: "I am pretty sure that there is no God."

Henique: "Sure you are, Miranda."

Miranda: "And I'm pretty sure that Jesus is also a real person. And that God and Jesus are the same thing."

Henique: "Right."

Miranda: "And that's why when you say 'mercy,' you should really mean it. You should say 'mercy,' not just shit on people who fail to believe in God."

Kyle: "Can I go to the bathroom?"

Miranda: "Sure."

Miranda: "Have you met Kyle yet?"

Miranda: "What? Of course I'm not going to hand over the company to a guy who doesn't even look like he's sure he believes in God."

Miranda: "I'm not even famous yet, you know!"

Kyle: "Please," he says, "can I go to the bathroom?"

Miranda: "Sure."

Miranda: "Guys. That's my new tag-line. 'Guys.'"

Miranda: *knocks over a vase*

Miranda: "A promise is a piece of shit. A promise is cheap, Kyle. A person who makes a promise is either a liar or a coward. Don't ever make a promise to me or to anyone."

Miranda: "That's right. I've already broken every single one of my promises. You can see for yourself. This is the aftermath. It will be interesting to see where this takes us."

Miranda: "What the fuck is this shit? What the fuck?"

Miranda: "Jesus Christ."

Kyle: "The Bible says he was the son of God. Miranda, you're saying he's a madman and a rebel. You're saying you've made a lot of promises, don't you? Do you really think you can keep all of them? Or are you just going to break your word to me, again and again, when it becomes clear to you that I am serious?"

Miranda: "I've broken my word to you many, many times. But I'm different, I'm different now, I've got a company."

Miranda: "It's true that I am the only one who seems to care about my company. But I'm going to keep saying that, Kyle. I am the only one who seems to care about my company, and that's great, because I get to be able to get my shit together! You see, in my defense, people have always been kind of- oh no! Are you arguing with me or talking to me? Don't answer me! Don't answer me! You're just making a scene!"

Miranda: "Kyle, I can't believe I'm saying this, but- you know, if I'd thought my promises were going to last this long, I'd have done things a little differently."

Miranda: "Oh, but I'm breaking my promises. I'm breaking my promises! And if I'm just saying that, I'm a total hypocrite! They're all over me!"

Miranda: *frantically begins typing documents*

Miranda: "I feel like an evil genius, but I just can't seem to get anything done."

Miranda: "I'm going to destroy my company because of this stress."

Miranda: "I'm going to destroy my company because I can't concentrate enough to do anything."

Miranda: "I'm going to destroy my company because I have to stay late to make more deals and not know what I'm doing with all my free time!"

Miranda: "I'm going to destroy my company because I have so many deals I need to make and I don't have time to research or research and make deals!"

Miranda: "I'm going to destroy my company because if I don't I will get drew on a bad deal and lose all my money in one week! If I don't lose my ass. I don't have time for this!"

Miranda: "I'm going to destroy my company because just now I overheard you talking to a guy in the elevator about your dick. The Devil himself would be proud.

Kyle: "Ow! I'm sorry, I'll get up now!"

Kyle: "Yeah, Miranda, can I go to the bathroom?"

Miranda: "Whatever you want, Kyle."

[desarcalize]

Dusk 4: The last friend

The red-haired man opened the monastery door and walked in. He took a seat and opened his Bible. He started to read a part of Paul's Evangelion, whispering. Mana and Nea walked inside the church, saw where he was sitting and approached him. The young man took his eyes off his Bible and turned to the twins. "Good morning, my brothers" he said smiling They looked at him and every detail of his face. He doesn't seem to be an enemy of the monastery. The opposite one. “You must be new here” the man said “Yeah” Nea answered “We are just guests” “I see. The monastery is the best place for travelers and people who need a sanctuary” “That’s true and that’s what Father Cross said too” Mana said “Father Cross, eh? He is not so much a man of charity, if you understand what I mean. You must be really interest people for him to behave to you with that way” “Is there anyone else who is interesting to him, like us?” Nea asked “Well, his students of course” the red-haired man said. He seemed a lot of innocent person. Someone else would never say about the exorcist teacher and students to someone he just met. “Sisters Maria and Sarah?” Mana asked “Yes! You know them, right? Of course, you would, the two girls of monastery are not something unnoticed” He said laughing shyly “You are right” Mana said blushing. The three men started laughing by Mana’s comment and reaction. They didn’t even know each other names, but they still were laughing like they were longtime friends. Enjoying their time together, they didn’t notice the young nun approaching them   "Allen! Good morning" Sarah approached the red-haired man "Good morning, Sister Sarah" Allen said and stood up. He took Sarah's hand on his hand, he kissed it and put his forehead on it "I wish the God to bless you, brother" "Amen" He said and turned to the twins "The men? New members?" "No" Sister Sarah said and smiled "Just visitors. The twins, Mana and Nea" "I am Allen. I am glad to meet you" "The pleasure is all ours" Nea said "Good morning, Allen" They heard a female voice, from the back part of the monastery. Mother appeared, she seemed tired "Good morning, Mother Rebecca " Allen said kissing her hand too "Is everything alright?" "Just a little bit tired" "Where you praying all the night, again?" "Yes" the old nun said "I see. Don't push yourself too hard" "Yes, but what else can I do? I have to do this" "I understand" "Well" Sister Sarah said trying to change the subject "Will you stay will us for breakfast?" "Not today" he said smiling "I will eat with my family, thank you for the propose. Maybe another time" "As you wish" the girl said "Well, I have to leave for now. I will come again tomorrow morning" "Whenever you want" Mother said "The monastery is open for prayers like you" "I really appreciate that" he said and his kind face blushed. “Well, I will go to help Barba” Mother said “Mana, would you do me a favor?” “What can I do for you?” Mana asked “Please, go and tell to Father Cross, that breakfast is ready. He is not getting out of his room, because of that invention of his” “Em… Ok” The young man said and followed Mother. Allen was ready to leave, but as he turned a book felt from his bag. Nea stooped and took it from the floor. The book had black cover with weird letters on it, but the young man quickly realized the language. It was seemed that Allen read a part of this book many times, because when it felt on the floor it opened to a certain page. Nea took a good look of the book and started to browse it. Allen was looking at him with his heart beating fast. He realized from the first second that the brothers are something weird, something darker than he wouldn’t imagine, so he was afraid of the young man’s reaction The young D. Campbell took his eyes from the book pages and looked Allen. Then, he closed the book and gave it back “The Bible is in Ancient Greek language” Nea said “I am impressed” “Can you read Ancient Greek?” the red-haired man asked surprised “Yeah, you see…” Nea said putting his hand on hair, so he could push his frond hair on the back “…My brother and I loved everything which was old and historical. So, our mother hired a teacher who taught us Latins and Ancient Greek” Allen saw the symbol on Nea’s forehead. He lowered his head. It was none of his business to ask about this man’s past and symbol.   “I see” Allen said. He took his book and he put it back, in his postman like bag. “Well, can I ask you a question?” “Anything” the red-haired man said “Why do you believe in your God?” “What kind of question is that, Nea?” Sister Sarah asked “It’s fine Sarah” Allen said “I didn’t understand your question, sir Nea” “I thought that my question was clear. Why do you read the Bible? Is it from entertaining? I cannot understand why you believe in a God that you never saw?” Nea wasn’t atheist. The opposite one. He raised with his brother by their mother to love the God. The God who made the first people, Adam and Eve. The God who saved Noah and his arc full of animals. But he felt that this God, turned his back to the twins when they most needed him. How can you love someone who abandoned you, when you most needed him? “You are blasphemous, young man” they heard a deep voice for the deep monastery. Father Cross was standing some meters away from the three younglings. Next to his was Mana who was looking all the scene with a questioning expression on his face. “Our God… is the Father of Jesus Christ… Christ himself and the Holy Spirit, which… which is released by both” Allen said. His voice and his lips were trembling. He was afraid of the twins. He couldn’t explain this, but after he saw Nea’s symbol on his forehead, he understood that this man, had follow a very dark path in his life. Nea’s expression was neither evil, nor strict. The opposite one, he looked like a child in the Junior Class who ask to his teacher a philosophy question, like all the little children used to do.

[Flashback] Before two days, Allen took a visit to the monastery and he found Sister Sarah filling a silver basket with water from the monastery pit. “Good morning Sister” Allen said with the kind smile he always had “Good morning Allen. Did you come for the morning liturgy?” “As always. Are you ok? You seem a kind of tired” “We have some visitors in the monastery” “Really? Travelers?” “I really don’t know if they are really travelers. They seemed to me like they were lost”

 [End of Flashback] “You were right, Sister Sarah. They are lost… Lost from the His road” he thought “Nea?” Mana said and stepped next to Sarah “What is going on? What are you talking about? We…” Nea turned to his brother and looked at him with an expression like he told him to stop talking. He didn’t want to show off. Not yet. Not in front of non-exorcist people. “It’s ok, Mana” Allen said “Nea had some questions for our religion” “Mn… It’s not like we don’t believe in Noah’s and Moses’s God, but whatever” Mana said whispering, through his teeth. The only who heard him was Sarah, who looked him surprised by his comments. Mana looked her in her eyes, waving his head negative. He didn’t want to make the things more complicated than they already were. “And what does that God give to you?” Nea asked, continuing his “interrogation”. He turned and looked Sister Sarah, who seemed at first to lost her patient, but after Mana’s comment was more calm and skeptical. “He gave us his guide and his protection” Sister said “That? And what does he ask in return?” he approached her. He wanted to know more, to know if there was any difference between the God he knew and the God that exorcists believe in. Until now, he didn’t find any difference. “Nothing” she said “Just our love” “In all the religions” Nea said “If you disobey God’s orders, they will make your life a living hell, if you don’t believe to their religion or not follow the rules, you will pay it with blood” “This is not happening in Christianism” Allen said “Our God has let us free do decide if we want to believe or not. He will not make our lives a living hell, because we are the only one who make our lives a nightmare, by our actions and our thoughts” “You are fighting your own demons…” Mana whispered thinking “Exactly!” Allen said to Mana “Alright then” Nea said and approached Allen. The last one was ready to do a step behind, but for some reason he didn’t move, he just let the young D. Campbell come as close to his as he want “I would like to read with you this Bible one day. The Bible which was written in Ancient Greek” The cheeks of the young red-haired man flushed. He found the two brothers very interesting. All this time, he used to visit the monastery during liturgy, reading his Bible, talk with the Sisters about the religion stuff and then leave. But now, he found someone who really paid attention to him, someone who want his help to be saved from his own demons. “Anytime!” He said with a smile on his face Nea turned and looked his brother, who had his face to the marbled floor of the church. He didn’t talk. He was afraid about the exorcists’ reactions if they learn the truth about them. Sarah looked both of them. Mana’s eyes were kind and empty, but Nea’s eyes had flames in them. She wanted to find the truth. She had to. For the Order. “Alright” the red-haired man said “The time has passed now, I have to leave. I will come back tomorrow morning to talk again with you, Nea and Mana” “We will look forward for it” Mana said “Yeah, we will talk tomorrow” Nea said Allen opened the door and walking in the snowing city. "Well" Sister Maria said "Ready for breakfast?" They all turned and looked at her surprised. They were so busy with the conversation they just had, that they didn’t notice that Maria was actually standing behind them all this time. And not only that, her voice come back to normal, in some way “How much time where you here?” Cross asked “Pretty much you hear and understand the conversation. I can see our guests are more interesting than I was expected” The words sounded like lyrics of a melody as she spoke “We were….” Nea said blushed “We just wanted to know what kind of temple this is” “Well, I wouldn’t use the word temple for the monastery” Father Cross said “Whatever, call it as you want, it seems a temple to me” Nea said “As you wish” Sister Maria said with a kind smile “Well, will you come? The table is ready” “Not yet…” Sister Sarah said Everyone looked at her surprised by her comment. She didn’t participate into the conversation after Allen left. Now she seemed to lost her patient again. She was looking to the floor and she tighten her right hand “…Nea, we need to talk” she finally said “Follow me” She left from the group and started walking to the back of the monastery. Nea looked all the other who were there. He left a sign and followed the nun.

[gdelgiproducer]

Speculation about an unusual birth

(Because “‘tis the season” and all that.)

In today’s episode of “Never Ask a Knowledgeable Atheist What He Thinks Really Happened”...

If the story of the birth of Jesus Christ has any truth to it, and if he really was the result of Mary getting pregnant without Joseph’s help, then it stands to reason that somebody had to be the daddy. Being an atheist, I rule out the presence of God, so the question is obvious: is there another candidate? Funnily enough, non-Christian sources from the second century do record an alternate father for the figure we call Jesus. 

Now, granted, those sources were looking to counteract the already-popular “virgin birth” story, and they were often virulently anti-Christian, so they went for the most shameful possible alternatives in that day and age: stating that Mary was either assaulted by, or had an adulterous affair with, a soldier named Pantera, and that Jesus was the result. 

 This was so persistent that it leaked into the Talmud and medieval Jewish writings. Some sources, such as the Toledoth Yeshu, garbled this story a little, combining Pantera with Joseph and giving Mary another husband altogether who abandoned her after the baby daddy’s deception led to conception, but everybody ultimately comes down on 1) there was another father, and 2) his name was Pantera.

Christian Response

Christian apologists have had answers for this story almost since it began. Many otherwise reliable scholars argue that pantera is a pun on the Greek word parthenos (“virgin”) and not a real name; in other words, detractors were making fun of the idea of Jesus being the “son of a virgin” by called him the “son of a panther,” or a lusty animal. But it has zero historical or linguistic basis. As far back as 1906, Adolf Diessmann showed conclusively that the name “Pantera” is a real name, not unusual, and further that it was favored by Roman soldiers, who used it fairly commonly.

Other much earlier sources, Church Fathers apparently unaware of the parthenos pun hypothesis, decided that rather than ignore Pantera, whose story was evidently already very widespread, they’d hide him somewhere in Jesus’ genealogy and claim anti-Christian sources were mistaken. Epiphanius claimed that Joseph’s father’s surname was Pantera, which -- by his own admission -- would preserve the “virgin birth” he himself believed in and still make “Jesus, son of Pantera” technically accurate by that day’s standards. Someone else claimed Mary’s grandfather bore the name of “Pantera.” While either is certainly possible (the discovery of an ossuary with the name “Pentheros” in a Jewish first century tomb in Jerusalem by Clermont-Ganneau in 1891 has given us additional evidence that the name was in use in Palestine by Jews at the time), this smacks more -- at least to this reader -- of two attempts to make a square peg fit a round hole.

At the end of the day, we are left with “Jesus, son of Pantera.” This would be enough by itself, but we even have an existing candidate for exactly which soldier named “Pantera” laid the pipe. (And I say candidate only because the evidence is circumstantial at best; definitive proof does not exist.)

A Grave in Germany

In October 1859, during the construction of a railroad in Bingerbrück, Germany, tombstones for nine Roman soldiers were accidentally discovered. Among them was the memorial marker of one Tiberius Julius Abdes Pantera, a soldier of 40 years, former standard bearer for the First Cohort of Archers, who had died at the age of 62. (Presently, the marker resides at the Römerhalle museum in Bad Kreuznach, Germany.)

The Roman names speak for themselves -- both may have been given in recognition of serving in the army as he obtained Roman citizenship, with the particular significance of Tiberius being that Tiberius was the Caesar on the throne when Pantera was discharged, and so he’d have added the emperor’s name to his own when granted citizenship -- but “Abdes” is especially interesting. It seems to be the Latin form of an Aramaic name. (You know, the language Jesus and his fellow Jews spoke?) According to etymologists, Abdes comes from Ebed, which means “servant of God” in Aramaic.

I know what you’re thinking: “Why would a Roman have an Aramaic name?” Well, a lot of poor Jews and other impoverished men of Near Eastern cultures in that day, who for whatever reason could not find viable alternatives in their native place, would hire themselves out as mercenaries. Sometimes even to the hated Roman occupiers -- after all, if you hung around long enough, you got Roman citizenship and a pension in addition to your wages, which was no small reward in the days of the Empire.

Lending credence to this theory that Pantera wasn’t strictly Roman, according to his epitaph, he came from Sidon, on the coast of Phoenicia just west of Galilee (where, you’ll recall, Jesus is reported to have lived most of his life). More than that, based on the known movements of the First Cohort of Archers, they transferred from Palestine to Dalmatia in 6 AD, and to the Rhine in 9 AD. So Pantera was not only in Palestine at the right time for Jesus to be conceived, but he wasn’t Roman by birth; he enlisted locally, from an area close enough geographically that it’s even more possible he and Mary could have met.

Tiberius ruled from 14 AD to 37 AD. Pantera’s 40 years of service would therefore have started between 27 BC and 4 BC. As Pantera would probably have been about 18 when he enlisted, it means he was likely born between 45 BC and 22 BC. He could have been as young as 15 at the probable time of Jesus’ conception, which is worth noting because, from what we know of Jewish society back then, a boy would have been learning his trade by age 10, engaged at 13 (girls would typically be 12), and married by 14 (girls, 13); precocious and unconscionable by today’s standards, no doubt, but nonetheless the reality.

So... even absent definitive evidence, we have a viable candidate for the baby daddy -- right place, right time, right name, right age for things not to be icky, the kind of background where he and Mary could conceivably have met. But what about the stories of assault and illegitimacy?

Possible Explanations

Well, let’s look at what we know about Jewish culture at the time and speculate a little based on that:

This was a patriarchal culture where, as Fiddler on the Roof puts it, marriage was decided by the papas.

Sex outside of marriage was frowned upon. Shit, women were called whores just for getting divorced. (An echo of this exists even in Jesus’ own Sermon on the Mount, where divorce for any reason other than marital unfaithfulness is considered blameworthy.)

When tax collectors were being excoriated as traitorous collaborators by their fellow countrymen, imagine how much worse you’d get it if you slept with a Jew who went on to become a soldier in the Roman army. Why, the man himself, regardless of any lover or wife, might be disowned, a practice whereby parents considered their child dead and observed the traditional seven days of mourning.

Continuing on that seeming tangent from the last bullet point, if a man died without having children, Mosaic law held that his brother was responsible for marrying his widowed sister-in-law and continuing the family line in his brother’s name. So if a disowned son “died” without having children, well... maybe his brother had to pay for that choice.

Based on that, and sprinkling in a little long-standing Catholic tradition which portrays Joseph as an old widower (bearing in mind that many people in Jesus’ day didn’t live past 40, so even approaching one’s late thirties was considered “old”), I think I have an interesting idea about what went down. 

All of it is speculation. Every single bit of it. But isn’t it funny how it basically aligns with recorded tradition, even in the Bible and apocrypha, when you strip out the supernatural elements? (Okay, that’s a little strong, but, I mean, it’s not a huge stretch. It lines up.)

My Interesting Idea

Meet Miriam. a young teen by today’s standards. Like any other young teen at any time in recorded history, she’s a force of nature, with hormones and with emotions so powerful they shock even her. (Healthy teenage development can look pretty irrational. A minor annoyance can turn into an emotional earthquake that knocks everyone in the house off balance. Not much has changed.)

Meet Ebed. Maybe he and Miriam have known each other their entire lives; maybe he’s new in town and just cute enough to catch her eye. He has ambition. He feels he isn’t destined to stay in some obscure backwater, and he wants to make something of himself. More than that, he’s hungry. But odd jobs aren’t cutting it. If he puts his foot forward to betroth Miriam, her father will laugh in his face. In their time and place, marriages are arranged, and he has nothing to offer.

If anything, Miriam’s father is more interested in his older brother, Yosef, a widower. Being a tekton (often translated as “carpenter,” but more accurately a stonemason or architect) making decent money from Herod and Rome reconstructing Palestine in their image, he’d be a sound choice for her future. So she wants the brother, big deal -- what say does she have in the matter? It’s the same family. She’ll see him all the time!

One day, Ebed -- whose name I’ll remind you means “servant of God” (those Christian mystics do say the Lord works in mysterious ways, don’t they) -- visits Miriam with his usual flattering words. She knows something’s up. He tells Miriam that he’s found a way out, a way to make his mark on the world, but while it can provide for the two of them, it will expose them to shame and disgrace forever, and there’s even less chance her father will think their betrothal is a good idea. Namely, he’s joining the First Cohort of Archers. Knowing what this will mean for their relationship, even though she has known no man in the biblical sense (which makes her reluctant at first), she ultimately accepts a “proper goodbye.” Unfortunately for Miriam, in her time, place, and circumstance anyway, she was left with a reminder of his love. And the minute she knows she’s pregnant, she runs off to hang with her cousin, who just got pregnant herself under equally unusual circumstances. Running to visit a cousin in the same shape? Sounds like someone who was scared, or needed advice or time to think about what to do.

(Note that all of the above, once you strip out the supernatural angle and added frippery, is exactly what’s in the Gospel of Luke: a servant of God visits Mary with words of flattery, “tells her she’ll have a child” [I mean, he even says the Holy Spirit will “come upon her,” and don’t criticize me for my dirty mind, men considered it a divine mandate to spread their seed based on the early chapters of Genesis, whether they were consciously setting out to do that or not], she is reluctant at first but ultimately accepting of this “news,” and she immediately goes to visit her mysteriously pregnant cousin. Honestly none of this is especially different from the Bible when you remove your rose-colored glasses.)

While Miriam is off with her cousin Elisheba, her father makes the choice he’d already set his mind upon anyway, especially in light of Ebed running off to join the Romans, being disowned, and permanently taking himself out of the game (as it were): she will be pledged to Yosef. Since Ebed is now “dead,” maybe he can use his word -- the final word -- to persuade Miriam that her marriage fulfills the Law, and her children with Yosef will be Ebed’s. It’s technically not true in the least, but men thank God in prayer every morning that they were not born women and a common saying is that the Law should sooner be burnt than placed in female hands, so she won’t know the difference anyway, and if she shoots her mouth off, no one will pay it any mind, as she’s a woman.

As for Yosef’s feelings on the subject, arranged betrothals are just the way things are done. He knows his brother loved Miriam, and he feels bad, but honoring him by marrying her is what tradition dictates. He’s getting older (at least by that day’s standards), he’s been around the block once; even if he never truly loves this woman, at least there will be someone to come home to.

Word arrives at Elisheba’s: “You are betrothed to Yosef. Get back here. It’s been three months.” Now, what does Miriam do in that situation? Deciding never to return wouldn’t just disgrace her; it would put Yosef in the middle of things and leave a black mark on his reputation. Whatever she feels about him, she knows he doesn’t deserve that. So naturally, with no other choice, she goes home.

Imagine Yosef’s reaction when she turns out to be with child (from, y’know, a “servant of God,” which tradition may later call the Holy Spirit to obscure things), and throws herself on his mercy. I’d say what the Gospel of Matthew (1:18-19) says happened next wouldn’t be exactly inaccurate: “His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be pregnant [...] Joseph her husband was faithful to the law, and yet did not want to expose her to public disgrace...”

Morally torn, Yosef thinks to himself, “The Law calls for her to be stoned, but I’ve already lost one wife to Sheol. If all men call me cursed, that could hurt my chances if I ever put myself on the line for betrothal again. I could break the engagement quietly, but if I didn’t marry her, people would speculate. She might bear shame and disgrace anyway. This isn’t worth the mishegas, for either of us.”

And the angel in him, if you will, won out. Maybe he’d never be what Ebed was to her; maybe he could never ask her to love him. But the child would need a father, and she would need someone to care for her, even if only to cover her shame. Who knows? It could be a blessing in disguise.

In Miriam’s shoes, I’d be grateful. Maybe even have at least four other kids with him down the line (see Mark 6:3).

It’s all just speculation, but what if...?

[septemberadical]

I am not close to understanding, I do understand. You want unquestionable faith that your god is real and you speak for him through the bible, and anyone who tries to ask you questions about this god's motivations, ultimate goals, or even where he came from are told they are too puny and stupid to understand. You can justify even the most abhorrent and illogical treatment of others because it's in the divine and, most importantly, ineffable plan and we can't possibly understand it.

For example, your argument is that anybody who opens their heart to Jesus and asks for forgiveness will be granted it and invited into the kingdom of heaven. This kingdom which is presumably the alternative to the hell waiting down below for all the non-believers and there is no middle option like the inventive Catholics espouse. That's a pretty low bar for entry, don't you think? It's well known that Hitler believed he was serving god's interests (certainly killing Jews has been a favourite pass-time of pious Christians so he'll be in good company), and almost every serial killer or rapists or heinous criminal on death row has had the opportunity to see a chaplain prior to their execution and repent. They will all go to heaven. But, unfortunately, because pious Jews or peaceful Muslims, or atheists who have done great works and lived, by all accounts, a virtuous life will be subject to the torments of hell because... why, exactly? And we come back to your answer that we are too stupid to understand it, but it is just since god says so. Why isn't it that those who try their best to live like good people go to heaven and those that don't go to hell? Why is simply 'believing' someone died for our sins enough to get us a ticket to the best seat in the house?

God, I'm sure you will agree, is asking for a lot on blind faith. We have to ignore reason and logic (not to mention overwhelming scientific evidence in biology, geology, chemistry, astronomy, physics, and basically every major discipline that contradicts the bible on topics from the origin of life to the age of the universe and the earth), and believe with no proof that everything the bible says is true (including the earth was created in 7 days, woman was created from man's rib, that a man turned water into wine, and brought himself, and others, back from the dead, among other things - all of which if you told me happened today I'd very helpfully drive you to the nearest mental hospital). And on top of all that, we have to believe it without knowing the reason why any of this craziness is happening?

As for this:

We know the basic facts around Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection are corroborated by the best-supported primary source documents that exist for any ancient historical event.

What supporting documents are you referring to? As far as I'm aware there is no record in the Roman Empire, at all, of a Jesus of Nazareth despite apparently having been tried by Pontius Pilate and Rome presumably kept records about those sorts of things. Other features of Jesus' life also fail to measure up to historical scrutiny, including the idea of a national census that led Joseph and Mary back to Bethlehem (censuses were conducted but never on that scale and never forcing individuals back to their great-great-great x10 grandfather's birth city). Or any reports of a 'star' moving across the sky to guide 'wise men' to a manger, or any record at all of the birth occurring or a mass culling of infant boys after it occurred. And it's hard to imagine that there are historical 'records' of resurrection, and lots of people believing something is not any kind of evidence. A not insignificant number of Americans believe that you can tell the future by gazing at tea leaves at the bottom of a cup, and presumably tell their friends all about their insights, that doesn't mean it's true.

Also, not for nothing, but the gospels are far from 'reliable' sources on Jesus and his life. The gospels were written by wealthy Greek converts (as obvious a biblical scholar as you are I'm sure you know Jesus spoke Aramaic and could very probably not read or write, as could most of his original disciples) 30 to 80 years after Jesus' death. At best they are the culmination of a complicated game of telephone that crossed continents, not to mention it's had thousands of years to be edited, changed and completely invented by scribes and church leaders (apparently they don't consider that to be a sin, go figure). (I encourage a reading of Jesus, Interrupted and Misquoting Jesus by Bart D. Ehrman, two excellent summaries of critical bible study and his speciality of new testament studies that goes into so much more detail than what I say here.)

Why does God allow evil to exist?

Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away. But when the wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the tares became evident also. The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’

And he said to them, ‘An enemy has done this!’ The slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?’ But he said, ‘No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them. Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn.”

‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13‬:‭24‬-‭30‬ ‭NASB

“But God is perfect and all powerful, why can’t He get rid of the evil without harming the good?”

Because the evil isn’t just “bad people” among us. The evil is in our own sinful hearts. To get rid of evil, He would have to get rid of us too.

In our Baptism, in Confession and Absolution, in hearing the Gospel, and in Holy Communion, we receive the forgiveness of our sins won for us by Christ on the cross. But while we live here on earth, we still live with our sinfulness - though we are no longer slaves to it (Romans 6).

When Christ returns on the Last Day, then we can finally be resurrected in our glorified, perfected bodies and live with Him without sin and all its consequences. That will happen - just in God’s timing, not ours.

It may feel like we are waiting a long time and suffering under the weight of evil in this world, but when we are in the world without end, this life will seem like a distant memory, a blip compared to eternity.

Almighty, everlasting God, Your Son has assured forgiveness of sins and deliverance from eternal death. Strengthen us by Your Holy Spirit that our faith in Christ may increase daily and that we may hold fast to the hope that on the Last Day we shall be raised in glory to eternal life; through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Amen.

[fandensflytrap]

(( You know, using the year to research for this blog has been kind of fun in a lot of unexpected ways. ))

(( It started out with me trying to figure out more about the viking age and the local folklore of Scandinavia specifically. That’s where it all began since I wanted to better understand what I was writing.

So I start noticing a few repeating patterns cropping up; ‘’And then Chri.stianity changed this concept and we don’t know what the pre-christian context is anymore.’’

But I didn’t want to read the bible so I decided to push it aside for a while. And then I started to build a narrative around the witch hunts and demons and started to read up on Demonology and the witch hunts. And realized demonology was in large part just a thinly veiled excuse for medieval priests to be xenophobic and sexist.

And so I decided; I should probably look into that! Since so much of folklore is connected to Chr.istianity, I have demon characters, I use the witch hunts, I can’t ignore it. I might as well read the bible to understand the context behind the changes, maybe it’ll give me some answers?

It took me a while to do so, but I did it. I read the entire thing. I McFreaking did it.

 Aaaaaaaaaand I learned nothing from it. I didn’t understand what I was reading, but I was... less than thrilled about what I read, no denying that.  Well, ok, I learned that the devil wasn’t a part of the Old test.ament. The Old tes.tament doesn’t mention demons at all! The New Tes.tament, however, do mention demons a few times.

Sa.tan didn’t become the character they became in Ch,ristian belief before year 500 with little to no basis on what the bible said.

But the bi.ble said nothing that would clue me in on the local folklore, at least. No, I needed to go further into the history. I needed early history on Chr.istianity and  how the O.rthodoxy was established and how it spread across Europe before I got some clues on that.

So I decided to look at videos published by Yale for a semester they did on how to read the old testament, to actually understand what I read. And I’m so glad that I did, holy shit, all those nuances flew right over my head as a modern atheist reader. And then their course about the historicity of the New testament. Very fascinating, actually.

It was about how the early church tried to find their footing, learned that the Ne.w-Test.ament is terribly A.nti-J.ew. That the Ch.ristian faith mainly used the Je.wish Bible to springboard a path to make their NEW RELIGION more valid in the eyes of the Romans who squinted hard at new religious movements. 

Then I went down the rabbit hole of ‘’historical J.esus’’ for a bit, and that was kind of fun. Pfft. But basically, what I came to conclusion is that: J,esus might have existed, we don’t know, but for arguments sake let’s say he did. That in old Roman beliefs, and in a lot of places around the world, was that people could be raised to the status of Divinity. 

A lot of roman emperors had been made Deities that way. That gods could have children with humans and those children could become gods too. That this was a thing that could happen, and was a commonly held belief that wouldn’t be difficult to understand for the average person at the time. 

But since I’m getting tired of reading about Ch.ristianity, I jumped back to viking age. Which is just more Church history, electric bugaloo part 2, if we’re going to be completely fair. It’s not like there’s a lot of history to go around that’s not centered around the religious shift. 

The myths are highly Chri.stianized too. So we kind of just have to take them for what they are. BUT. There are hints to the pagan past there. So I read about Seidr. (From a modern practitioner, so there was a lot of New Age themes in there, but I’ll read up more factually academic oriented book on Shamanism soon. )

But you won’t believe how many doors just learning about shamanism does to the reading of the myths. Seidr\Shamanism with a dash of Animism is the very foundation, the building blocks to the myths. One has to understand shamanism and animism in order to understand the myths on a more intimate level outside of a modern person’s perspective. 

And I was so delighted to realize that for 1. Freya gets a much greater importance in the grand scheme of things. She barely has a presence in the myths, so this discovery was GREAT! 2. It sets up the world view as a much more focused way.  3. It showcases gender in a very different way from what is usually considered the ‘’popular’’ image in modern day and age. Women were practitioners, religious authorities, they would be REALLY important people in the local tribes.  4. Odin is a practitioner as well. Which, I don’t know about you, but I can dig that and the implications they bring.

Then we can move on to the demonization of pagan concepts with that as a springboard. I had this realization earlier, reading about demonology, but pagan concepts were just twisted into becoming demons for people to stop connecting with them. 

Pagan holidays were changed to have a Chr.istian meaning. Jòl\Yule In Scandinavia was in January or February. Then some king decided that he wanted to move it to December to celebrate Jesus together with the rest of Europe. 

Which in later years resulted in them demonized the ANCESTRAL SPIRITS who would come from the afterlife, to the mortal world, to celebrate Jòl with their living relatives. Eating the food that was left as offerings so the ancestral spirits could have their festivities, eat and drink, while the living slept.

...By turning them into criminals, suicide victims, people who hadn’t gotten baptized, those in Purgatory, and all the others the Church didn’t like. Saying that they will take your soul or kill you if you weren’t careful. Which I’m still not over.

But we can’t talk about the Christianization of the Vikings in Norway without mentioning Saint. Olav Haraldson, or Olav the Holy.

Olav was a rather interesting figure. You can literally not read up on Folklore  without him popping in to say hello. So why is that? 

Well, essentially, he started out as your average person, born by a king in Norway. What was then expected by the sons of a King at that time, would be to go on a viking raid, so he went to England and terrorized King Æthelred for like... 20 or so years. A king who had been dealing with Vikings terrorizing England for over 50 years.

Olav, funnily, became friends with the King. Was baptized by the King, and swore to be his loyal body guard for as long as he lived. 

Then he went back to Norway, bringing with him a Bishop from England to help him make the case for Chri.stianity in Norway. 

He went to all of the Kings he could gather, went to the local governmental bodies and stated his case. And it wasn’t difficult to convince the local Kings to accept Chri.stianity as they most likely had been exposed to Christianity in one way or another. Whether it’s from foreigners entering the shores along the coastal lines, or from having gone on Viking Raids\trading with others. 

Olav, of course, killed people who didn’t agree with him in a good old fashioned ‘’BELIEVE OR DIE’’ crusade, but shhh.

So when he died, at the battle of Stiklestad, the Bishop he had brought with him made him a Saint. Yeah, we’re returning to that dude. 

The Bishop made him a Saint for ‘’taming the vikings’’ and ‘’showing them the light’’. And so, Olav was then turned into a propaganda figure to further the Christian agenda. All with a great divine story and all, with the inclusion of tying in the story beats of Jesus’ life to his character for extra effect.

He was deemed THE ideal leader. The image of HOW a King SHOULD be. The image of a righteous man who did right before God. (Which, funnily, made the Swedes take over the throne as a consequence because no one could measure up.)

They said that when he died, his killed who had gained some injuries through the fight, was the first to notice Olav’s divinity. That his injuries had healed completely. And that once he realized he had battled and killed one of God’s chosen ones, he fled to Jerusalem to repent for his sins.

Then 1 year later after he had been buried, they dug his body up and placed it within the church Nidarosdomen. And the moment his body found its new resting place, he healed the ENTIRE TOWN from all their sickness and pain.

Yeah.

So after that, people began to use Saint Olav’s name to replace the old faith by retelling the old stories. You can pretty much in large part pinpoint where some pagan themes got altered during those retellings. 

The Jotun, who were intelligent chaos spirits challenging the order the gods represented (which is... eh, the duality aspect between chaos and order is a christian concept, but it’s what we got) became stupid Christian hating Trolls. Just as an example. Some myths were basically copy pasted with his name inserted into them.

Olav took over the role of both Odin and Thor. And was considered superior to both. He was better at killing the jotuns than Thor was, so Thor gave the mantle to Olav himself...

-

Which got me to the Paganism side of things. Where I found a statement that went something along the lines of ‘’Maybe the Landvettir\the spirits are being hostile because of how forcefully Ch.ristianity came, forcing a new way of life. Severing people’s spirituality, their connection with nature, the spirits? And then went on to disrespect them at every turn, treating the land spirits as demons for the crimes committed by humans.

And, like... I like that, it makes a lot of sense, actually. 

-

Moving on to a different but related topic; witch hunts and the Scandinavian Devil. 

The Scandinavian devil most likely originated as a pagan concept like most things. What that original source is, we’ll never know. But what I find hilarious about the old concepts of the Devil is that they’re represented as ‘’eeeeeeeeevil’’ for...

1. Giving people money and food. 2. Gave women and other outcasts more autonomy and power. 3. Was the midwife to women who gave birth outside of wedlock. And encouraged women to kill said children, children who likely would be unwanted, would ruin her reputation, would push her out of the local community. They basically offered a late abortion through infanticide is what I’m getting at. 4. Taught people how to read and write. 5. Made people question the church’s power structure. 6. Created a space and community where outcast of the society could throw away social expectation. 7. Sexual liberation. (Though the Scandinavian devil was highly sex repulsed and fled from even sexually obscene language. This is more of a... the devil from other places in Scandinavia thing. ) 8. Taught magic. 9. Told their followers to be unpleasant and harm others who slighted them. 10. Took your soul, your heavenly ticket to paradise.

The devil wasn’t a saint, but I just find it hilarious that all of the things they did were deemed bad when in a modern context they were doing really good things.

Which then connects them to witches. The church thought women got kids with the devil. Then they realized, wait, Demons can’t get kids. It’s a succubus\incubus, who helps the devil get the kids. By using the sperm of human men, corrupting it, and then inserting it into women.

And the Succubus\Incubus is their right hand man. Yes. Logic.

And so on, so on. That’s not even touching the anti-semitism that went on during the time, but I’m focusing more on the folk lore aspect of things at the moment.

I dunno.  I just find it interesting how it all connects and I’m not even half done researching everything I want to research.

[raisingsupergirl]

Do You See My God?

So, I know this woman. She's a hard-nosed, Bible-thumping Christian, and, we'll say… opinionated. She's the type who sees the world a certain way, forsakes all others, and lives by the all-inclusive mantra, "Everyone is free to have their own opinions, but they're wrong." In general, I enjoy talking to her because she's intelligent, purposeful, and passionate. But I made a mistake the other day. I said, "I have this friend who's Calvinist." She looked at me, smiled, and said, "Well, now you have two." Crap.

As you would expect, she went into a lengthy monologue about her earlier years of ignorance, her frustration and desperation over rectifying the true heart of God—over whether He pre-determines who will find salvation or if we have free will to do so. I smiled and nodded, but it didn't seem to be enough. I had to see it her way. I had to see the light of truth. And so, the next time I ran into her, she handed me a book on the topic, worn with use and filled with her own personal notes. No, I didn't have to read it right now. I could take my time and get it back to her whenever. And when I did finish it, I would no doubt see things her way because it was the right way, and I was a smart young man. Ha! Shows what she knows. I've been avoiding absolute truths for as long as I can remember.

It's not that I don't value understanding. I absolutely love it. I seek it every day, deeply and earnestly. I love research and contemplation and healthy conversation. It's just that my happiness isn't tied to knowing absolute truth. Why? Because, like Plato and Socrates before him, I'm acutely aware of how ignorant I am. I realize that my every outlook and belief is an amalgam of past experiences, emotions, and mental faculties, right down to things like my body type, birth order, and attention span. For instance, I'm a non-denominational Christian with strong Southern Baptist roots because I grew up in central Missouri in a Southern Baptist church that taught me to love God but to hate legalism and hypocrisy (the hard way). I believe in free will not because of the dozen or so times I've read through the Bible, or because of my years of extra-Biblical study, or because I have a hard time wrapping my mind around a loving God who would pre-select some for salvation and others for damnation (though all of those things certainly play their part), but because I, myself have a spirit of independence. Free will is who I am. I follow the breeze and relish all of life's new experiences with an open mind. I believe in free will because it's how I see the world, though I don't need it to exist for me to be happy (since I at least have a blissfully ignorant perception of it). But that's just me. Other people, like my friend the Calvinist, need rules. They need to know the truth, even if it's not really the truth. And it's these people who have polarized our country to the brink of distraction (I meant to write "destruction," but somehow the autocorrected "distraction" is just as appropriate, so I'm leaving it). 

It's not wrong to have an opinion. It's not even wrong to have a strong opinion. But to hold a truth so tightly that you strangle all other possibility will never lead to growth or freedom. And if enough people share that approach, you get only oppression and, ironically, the death of the one thing those people desired—truth. Though, if I'm being honest, I don't believe it's actually truth that absolutists seek. It's power. Contention. Grandeur. Conquest. And I believe it comes from a place of insecurity, fear, and desperation.  But, of course I don't dare say that to their faces because I have better things to do than listen to their fuming rebuttals.

Of course, it seems like I've just demonized anyone who holds a firm belief on anything, but that wasn't my intention. It's only when beliefs are taken to the extreme and combined with negative emotions and intentions that the outcome is disastrous. As I said before, there's no inherently wrong starting point to forming our individual beliefs. We are products of our own multi-faceted and infinitely complex lives up until this very point. It's this variety that gives flavor to the human experience. Some ultimate truths are pretty simple: Never shake a baby out of anger or frustration. Don't wear white after Labor Day. If it's yellow, let it mellow; if it's brown, flush it down. You know, the obvious stuff that no one's going to argue about. But most things have room for debate. Is there a "right" answer to most things? Absolutely. Can anyone choose correctly regarding all things? Absolutely not (except Jesus Christ, though I guess that's just my opinion). And that's why we all need to practice grace and patience. There's nothing wrong with standing up for what's "right," but when we start approaching every topic with a, "Condemn first, ask questions never," attitude, we're doomed, and we probably deserve it.

I read The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins a few years back, and it was an extremely depressing book. It wasn't depressing because of the subject matter but because Dawkins made it clear that he despised Christians for the harm they had caused him in the past. Most atheists don't rally behind him because his biologist background didn't set him up to intelligently present most of his arguments, but to me, it was his inner pain that disqualified him. And it's the same with my Calvinist friend who gave me the "life-changing" book. She's had struggled in the past because of a traumatic event that she couldn't forgive herself for. And because of that, she needed something to take that guilt away from her, and Calvinism may have very well saved her life. But that doesn't mean it's correct. An invaluable belief for some? Sure. But, conversely, it could crush the spirit of others (like me). And that's the way it is with a lot of things: religion, politics, snack preferences. Even the Bible’s New Testament shows us multiple viewpoints and insights on the same Christ. It’s okay to see things a little differently than your brother or sister. Life's complexity is simultaneously the greatest source of its beauty and its suffering. We can either embrace it or drown in it.

Personally, I think we all have the freedom to make that choice, and that freedom sets me free. Then again, I could be wrong. And I'm okay with that.

Interesting addendum: While trying to tag this blog post in Tumblr, it turns out that “religion” is an unavailable hashtag. Hooray for censorship! Maybe free will is an illusion, after all...

[anonymoustalks]

i'm like the laziest student there. and administratively, i'm not doing so hot at the church i'm interning at. so i've been asking myself what in the world it is that I really want to do

(6-20-20) You both like religion.

You: hi

Stranger: helloo

Stranger: how's it going

You: it's going fine

You: I'm not religious

Stranger: cool

Stranger: so what's your view on life. broad question i know

You: I thinkk there needs to be more love everywhere

Stranger: true

You: the world needs to be flooded with love

Stranger: were you religious before?

You: nope

Stranger: atheist? or something else?

You: I guess I'm kinda atheist

Stranger: why kind of?

You: I feel like atheist has the connotation of strongly rejecting the existence of god

You: whereas agnostic doesn't have that semblance of strong rejection

Stranger: yeah kinda

Stranger: so you feel in between?

You: well, I feel like I've leaned too much into science growing up

You: and there is no evidence suggesting or not suggesting the existence of god, therefore you can't reject it

Stranger: okay, fair enough

You: anyhow what's your view on life?

Stranger: i'm with you on the fact that there needs to be more love in the world. but i'd add that our definition of love needs more substance

Stranger: something needs to inform or understanding of love

Stranger: our*

You: mhm what do you mean by substance?

Stranger: weight, meaning, concreteness

You: ohh as in love is just too vague of a term?

Stranger: mm not exactly

Stranger: it is vague

Stranger: hm

Stranger: yeah i guess that is part of what i'm saying lol

You: lol

Stranger: we need to know what we mean by it

You: mhm I'd love to hear some examples of what you mean

Stranger: oh boy. i'm not prepared

Stranger: love is such a profound word

You: oh was it too heavy? ^^

Stranger: any questions about what life should be like is heavy haha

Stranger: at least for me

Stranger: they all got a lot of existential weight

You: mhm, well I guess I can start with what I mean, if that helps?

Stranger: hmm here's a start. at what point is an act not an act of love, or at what point is an act an act of love?

Stranger: or actually

Stranger: we could go back further. why love in the first place?

You: mhm I think love is a subjective feeling that a person feels for another

You: and many people define love for themselves in different ways

You: as for why love in the first place -- I think love is a natural human emotion

Stranger: but there's an objective side to love as well. it needs an element of selflessness in order to be love

You: mhm is there?

Stranger: greed and hate are also natural human emotions, but they're not something we should practice.

You: very true

Stranger: but love is different because it promotes corporate happiness

You: as for the selflessness, I think that a love a parent has for their child is commonly regarded as selfless, although a child's love for (idk their grandparent) isn't always perceived as selfless I think

Stranger: yeah, it's a different kind of love

You: are there any bad kinds of love?

Stranger: love for money?

You: lol

Stranger: i would call that lust

Stranger: a lust for money. lust is like a perversion of love

You: mhm

You: so I'm kind of a hippie

You: I think all (or most) expressions of love are pretty much good

You: although I think hippies have this perception of being sex-positive as well

Stranger: word

You: but I think offering love to people, no matter the kind, doesn't necessarily seem bad to me

Stranger: i have a Christian background

Stranger: but i try to be sympathetic (understanding) to other views. just to grow more as a human

You: mhm I think I'm really sympathetic to many christian values

You: but it's weird because I don't think I can really call myself christian

Stranger: offering love to others is great. i just have to make sure my understanding of love is informed by God

Stranger: christianity can get tricky with all the denominations and what not

Stranger: but once you learn to navigate the conversations, it gets better from there

You: mhm

Stranger: hmm

You: are you on this tag a lot?

Stranger: i actually just started using this tag yesterday. also just started chatting with strangers yesterday

You: ohh cool

You: did you have any good conversations?

Stranger: some interesting ones. all pleasant

You: it's nice that they're pleasant

Stranger: yeah

You: I like omegle because I get to learn about other ppl

Stranger: true. one of the reasons why i'm chatting here

You: yup

You: I think my best to like every person that I come across

Stranger: academics will make you arrogant if you're not careful, so i'm kind of using this platform to get better at understanding people

You: ahh are you like an academic?

Stranger: definitely not a scholar

Stranger: but i'm pursuing my masters in religion

You: ohh wow

Stranger: and majored in philosophy (doesn't really mean anything tbh)

You: that sounds really fancy haha

Stranger: it's just a lot of thinking and reading and being bored out of your mind

You: so when you study religion academically, do ppl normally focus on one religion?

You: or is it more comparative?

Stranger: hmm

Stranger: it's comparative to an extent

Stranger: so mainly i'm just studying reformed christianity

Stranger: but we'll interact with the quran. maybe read some articles written about/against the validity of the christian faith

You: right and is getting a masters in religion different from studying theology or going to a theological school?

Stranger: oohhh my bad

Stranger: i kept it general

Stranger: my masters is in divinity. i'm at a theological seminary

You: ahh okay

You: and are you thinking of becoming a pastor?

Stranger: i'll be honest, i've been asking myself that and have been struggling real hard cause of it lol

You: awww

You: what do most people do?

Stranger: most people will get ther masters in divinity to become pastors

You: mhm

You: do you need much of a degree to become a pastor?

Stranger: depends on what kind of church you'd pastor for

Stranger: lots of churches these days would want to know your credibility

You: mhm

Stranger: and make sure you don't come in with some hocus pocus shit

You: right

You: if this isn't too hard on you, if it okay if I ask why you have doubt about your career?

Stranger: a degree definitely helps

Stranger: oh yeah i'm open to questions

Stranger: my initial struggle was that i was torn between seminary and pursuing more of the arts

You: arts?

Stranger: yeah like dance, music, drawing

You: mhmm

Stranger: my passion has always been for the arts. but on the other hand, i have this strong conviction to learn more of the Bible and share it with other people particularly young inquisitive people

Stranger: learned that these two things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive

You: right

Stranger: so i went ahead and went to seminary

You: but you're still conflicted right now?

Stranger: but. i'm like the laziest student there. and administratively, i'm not doing so hot at the church i'm interning at. so i've been asking myself what in the world it is that I really want to do

You: ahh

You: that sounds difficult

Stranger: especially cause being a pastor isn't something i can put upon myself

You: hm what do you mean?

Stranger: i'm gonna use the language of Christian's for a second. you have to be "called" to ministry in order to do ministry

You: ahh

Stranger: i can't just casually pick it up as if it were a trade

You: you don't feel it?

Stranger: man idk. part of me feels like it's because i'm lazy and clouding my judgement.

You: right

Stranger: the other part of me just wants a good breather. just kinda want to live for myself for a second

You: it sounds really difficult

Stranger: not worry about anyone but me, just for a moment

You: is it overwhelming?

Stranger: but what excuse do i have when i've been fucking it up with my laziness?

Stranger: emotionally overwhelming

Stranger: since i internalize all my thoughts and try to process everything

Stranger: i've been holding out okay, but quarantine got me in my feels lol

You: mhm right yeah

You: it's a lot to go through

Stranger: anyway, that's a summary of my story

You: I want to say I support you but I don't know anything haha

Stranger: lol it's all good

You: maybe you need a morale boost?

Stranger: honestly, words of encouragement can go a long way

Stranger: maybe

You: like mean, it's easy to think we're not cut out for something

You: but having a little bit of support get push us there

You: and it's only at the end that we know that we're at someplace we're meant to be

Stranger: yeah amen to that

You: I mean, I assume that's what people mean when they refer to "my family's support" after a long road of things

You: but I think everyone experiences serious... even dramatic doubt at times

You: and sometimes you just need someone to tell you that you can do it

You: that you'll get there

Stranger: mhmm

You: sorry I don't want to spew too much haha ^^

Stranger: nah you're all good. i do it every sunday hahaaaa

Stranger: poor kids

You: haha

You: I think it's a really incredible profession (is that the right term) to be in

You: like it matters so much

Stranger: yeah it's a profession

Stranger: vocation w/e you wanna call it

You: so much responsibility

You: I guess to hold the people that you're guiding, right?

Stranger: yeah, there's a lot to it

Stranger: can be intimidating at times

You: mhm

Stranger: trying to make sure you're humble

Stranger: trying to love the little punks

You: yeah haha

Stranger: hoping to God your mind is in the right place for the sake of your group

You: right

Stranger: and the politics you gotta play with the older people in church. most exhausting part

You: mhmm the politics?

Stranger: some churches are a little two faced

You: meaning?

Stranger: kind of have to be socially adept to be aware of what might be going on between the elders of the church

Stranger: what the church might feel about the head pastor

Stranger: and what they might feel about you

You: right

You: it sounds really complicated

Stranger: and to be able to act accordingly. it's all real petty stuff. not all churches are like this

You: I think I saw a NYTimes article about being conflicted in a church ever since trump was elected

You: like about how some church goers switched to going to more conservative churchs

You: or things like that

You: idk if it's a common thing

Stranger: hm

Stranger: it's more common than it should be

Stranger: members leaving a church to go to another

Stranger: sometimes its justified, sometimes its a lack of commitment and care for the church

Stranger: but yeah, i think this is why i want to define love the way God would have us define it. If I can emulate that, I'm sure it'd help the church

You: mhm, I think I didn't totally understand your explanation haha ^^

Stranger: that's okay

Stranger: i'm just saying love is important and i need to be loving for the sake of the church

You: mhm

Stranger: anyway

Stranger: oh yeah

Stranger: i was curious earlier, what makes you reluctant to call yourself a christian?

You: oh I don't believe in god, really

You: it feels ungenuine for me to say a prayer when I don't believe in him per say

Stranger: makes sense

You: that said, I really support churches

You: I think it's a little bit sad when it feels like American is drifting less and less religious I guess?

You: or to be more specific, I guess it's just a revulsion towards religion

You: that I don't think is totally fair

Stranger: yeah, i feel that

You: because I think churches do great things for their communities

You: history aside

Stranger: haha yeah the history

Stranger: and the things we did in the name of god

You: yeah I hear that a lot -- "christianity is bad because the crusades"

Stranger: i'm sure you know, but it's such an unfair assessment of christianity

Stranger: since it was just evil men using that title to their advantage

You: yup ^^ or well I think all people are flawed

Stranger: yeah, the depravity of mankind

You: I think it means a lot to seek improvement for yourself

Stranger: yeah. not an easy task to do

Stranger: since you have to constantly point out where you are falling short

You: yup

You: sometimes I wonder if I should go looking for something like an interfaith church or something haha

Stranger: that would be interesting

You: idk what they're like at all though

Stranger: hmm

Stranger: this is probably my own biases speaking, but i'd imagine a lot of them would have trouble explaining their worldviews

You: mhm yeah I know nothing about them, so I can't comment

Stranger: i'm guessing they'd be very welcoming though

Stranger: given the "inter" aspect of the group

You: mhm inclusivity is one of my values

Stranger: it's so hard going into churches though

You: going into?

Stranger: like visiting them and trying be part of the community

You: ahh yeah

You: it sounds like a lot of effort

Stranger: for me personally, christian churches would not be my first thought for places to go to for healthy communities

Stranger: healthy, real, non-awkward communities

You: hm? how so?

Stranger: it's probably just because of my observation of churches around me though

Stranger: it's just that churches around me aren't really the greatest at welcoming outsiders

Stranger: they either overcompensate, or just can't interact

You: ahh

You: yeah I can't comment haha; I've never been in that kind of situation

Stranger: hm. as a pastor, i'm supposed to be encouraging you to find yourself a church, but here i am discouraging it lol

You: loool

You: ^^ it's okay, you mean well

Stranger: i mean. if you find a good church, you've found yourself a group of good people. if do decide to find a church, i wish you the best

You: mhm

You: do you find if I ask what denomination you're affiliated with?

Stranger: ask away

You: oh that was the question haha

Stranger: oh

Stranger: presbyterian

Stranger: i don't know if I want to be with the OPC or the PCA

Stranger: both presbyterians though

You: ahh are they very different?

Stranger: very slightly

Stranger: like it almost doesn't matter

You: would you say your church fits in the evangelical category or not really?

Stranger: hmm

Stranger: to be honest, i'm not all too sure what the evangelical category is

You: I was going to ask that haha

Stranger: i just know "evangelical" has been used as a broad term for christians

You: yeah there's an "evangelicalism" wikipedia article

You: it says that 1 in 4 christians in the world can be considered evangelica

You: was just curious if you had a more specific definition to it

Stranger: hm

Stranger: it's been used in more than one way i'm not sure how to define it

You: mhm okay

Stranger: probably not gonna say anything more than that so i don't spread misinformation

Stranger: i will say that they do seem very "spreading the message" oriented

You: ah okay ^^

You: I feel like I am clicking around a ton of random links now

You: what do you think of Liberal Christinaity?

You: or liberal theology

Stranger: oh liberal christianity

Stranger: oooh hot topic at my school. at least for the freshmen

You: ahh how so?

Stranger: some would say it's not christianity at all

Stranger: since it compromises some very important things about christianity

You: yup

You: what would you say is the majority view at your school?

Stranger: about liberal christianity?

Stranger: or in general

You: yup

Stranger: we're against it

You: mhm is that common at a seminal school?

Stranger: hmm

Stranger: some are more aware

Stranger: while others kind of just offer the view there

You: what do you mean by more aware?

Stranger: they might be aware of the discussions revolving around liberal theology

Stranger: but haven't been required to do the ground work to really see why or why not liberal theology is not christian theology

You: mhm

Stranger: while other seminaries (i can only think of one) are more open about liberal theology

Stranger: my school straight up rejects it

You: haha

Stranger: couple others in the area do too

You: is it a regional thing?

Stranger: hmm not really

Stranger: it just happens to be that professors in other schools studied at my school

Stranger: my school was founded as a response to liberal theology

You: ohhhh

You: wow

Stranger: the founder couldn't stay at his old seminary while at the same time teaching what he in his heart knew was wrong

Stranger: so he left

Stranger: and started a school with his own money

You: right

Stranger: took a few brilliant thinkers along with him

Stranger: boom

Stranger: the birth of a humble little seminary with a lot to say

You: yeah

You: I mean I know very little

You: all I know is that some churches are pro-lgbt and others aren't

Stranger: ah

Stranger: a complicated discussion for sure

You: are the pro-lgbt ones liberal christianity?

Stranger: it's usually that way

You: mhmm

Stranger: although, i don't know by how much

You: yeah I was curious about how much of it was geographic

You: like I'm from new england

You: and a lot of the churches in the big cities are pro-lgbt

You: like you can see it posted outside even if you don't go in

Stranger: ohh

Stranger: i guess geography has some correlation to it, but not a necessary correlation

Stranger: guess it has to do with culture

Stranger: and how certain regions are responding to cultural changes

You: mhm

Stranger: anyway, i should head out and get ready for tomorrow. it was awesome chatting with you

You: okay, have a great night!

Stranger: if you happen to look for a christian church

Stranger: try a presbyterian one. i mean, that's my "bias"

Stranger: but

You: haha okay ^^

Stranger: oh but if they're wack

Stranger: don't feel bad about moving on to the next

You: mhm alrightie

You: thanks for everything!

Stranger: thank you for listening!

Stranger: jesus loves you!

You: haha

Stranger: haha. peace

You: byebye!

You have disconnected.

[meanwhileinthebroomcloset]

Mhm...  This post was meant to be much shorter, honestly. Not to mention it got super personal, which was not my intention. It actually made me a bit teary-eyed and I’m usually an emotional constipated dumbass. 

Am I ready for the potential backlash this is going to cause? Eh, probably not. Am I going to engage in the discourse this can cause? Ah, you wished. I have more to waste my energy on. I didn’t write this post to argument with anyone, anyway. 

Gonna risk it, still.

-----------------------------------------

Isn’t it kind of ironic that it was witchcraft that made me fully return to Catholicism?

I mean, I kind of never left, hence the ‘’fully’’ in that sentence. But now I really know who I am. Although I don’t think Catholicism is the most accurate label (Christo-pagan, perhaps?) it’s the one I grew up with, and the one that comes more naturally to me.

Studying the beginning of it all, the commentaries of Pagans and Jewish writers at the time are just so fascinating and honestly beautiful.

Then everybody started chasing and killing each order, and it sure wasn’t fascinating anymore.... ‘’Stop being murderous revenge-driven assholes’’ I angrily mutter into my book, while frying my brains for High Middle Ages exams.

And then it split into Catholicism and Arianism (not that Arianism! The no-holy-trinity-on-my-watch one), and that was a totally different can of worms. Then Rome got pissy and the Orthodox Church officially became a thing that existed.

Man, why is religion so messy?

Faith is such a strange thing. So much power, so much potential for good and evil and everything in between. I started losing mine some years ago. 

Contrary to some horror stories you may hear, especially from people who are now no longer Christian, I was raised in a pretty open environment.

‘’Don’t be mean, have faith, give second chances... Here are the commandments. They’re perfectly acceptable, see?’’

‘’Yes, there are different religions, but you should always respect them and the people that believe in them. Remember, Jesus was Jewish. Here’s some historical context... ‘’

‘’What the hell kid, nobody here is going to hell. Also, you’re five, there are no children in hell. No, the cops also won’t... Lord give me patience... Are you sorry? Did you apologize? Are you going to try to not repeat it? Great! Then it’s all fine and dandy!’’

‘‘Man, we are definitely all going to hell... At least since we’re all gonna be there, we could form a basketball team. The devil can be the referee. He will be an awful one, but hey, we’re in hell’‘

‘’I know the bible says the earth was created in seven days, but when that story was written, people didn’t know dinosaurs were a thing. Science is cool, and we are not in the middle ages. ‘’

‘’Blind faith is dangerous, kid.’’

‘’Thinking thoughts and acting upon them are two very different things.’’

‘’Yes, the second mom in that Solomon story was willing to see another kid die for the sake of an argument... sometimes people are that bad.’’

‘’God is perfect. People aren’t. That’s the world we live in and it’s okay.’’

‘’There are people who do terrible things in name of religion or say they’re doing it because the bible says so. Don’t believe them. There’s no excuse for murder and abuse.’’

‘’Yeah, Portugal is very enthusiastic when it comes to Catholicism... ’’

Pretty good summary of religion in my childhood.

Still, I found my faith waning. I didn’t really know why and I’m still a bit iffy talking about that.

‘’What did witchcraft do, then?’’

 Well for once, it reinforced my ideas on how faith worked, and how strangely powerful it can be. Being skeptical is healthy but completely closing yourself off because something isn’t completely clear is too radical and you're just doing the equivalent of closing your eyes to the less brighter lights.

My god, I can hear the hardcore atheists coming...

Can I remind you there are more things in life that will not provide the proof you want, but that won’t mean they aren’t there? Relationships. Relationships are too complicated to have straight answers, a lot of the times. People hide their feelings, they fake them, express them and react to them differently. There are so many things we don’t understand or know about yet, like space and organisms that live on this Earth.

Sometimes what you need is a different approach to see they exist! It’s one of the things I learned with witchcraft.

There was also the religion itself. As I worked on my magic, I started seeing magic around me again. Not just with gods I had never considered and the one I was leaving behind, but with the faith I had always known.

The affection when someone says ‘’Our Lady’’ when talking about the Virgin Mary, my family calling upon Saint Barbara when thunder comes, children screeching excitedly because the Compasso has arrived to give us the news that Jesus has come to life again in Easter, the marble cemeteries, the comforting prayers, the masses I couldn’t ear because the local church’s echo is terrible, those boring long-ass weddings (oh my god, how many blessings do two people need?!), the loving dedication I see in every saint carved, my church's priest’s good humor... I never owned a rosary, but I always like the ones my aunts and grandparents keep.

I found Christian and Catholic witches on this site and I finally got to my conclusion. It’s really there. I just needed a different approach to it!

These things made me believe again, but also in new things.

‘‘But you can’t do that! You can’t combine magic and christianity’‘ 

Oh, watch me. And also watch the centuries of cunning women and witches in European history and those still alive today. The women that make ‘’mezinhas’’ and other types of favors in Portugal sure as hell are doing witchcraft, but you can bet your ass they don’t think they’re any less Catholic than anyone else. They don’t care about your opinions and I will hopefully do the same.

Relationships with deities are personal, and my relationship with God, Jesus and all of them is no different in that regard. I am a witch, I am human, I am catholic. I’m a follower, not a fucking mindless sheep.

You know what? I always compared God to Aslan. The lion wasn’t always there for Narnia, he wanted his people to solve their problems on their own. Get their independence, as a good parent does. They both don’t come up all mighty, that’s a posture reserved for evil and people who need a good slap in the face. They come to your level. God may come through one of the less eldritch abomination looking angels, though...

‘‘Well, if you have god, you shouldn’t need anything more. He's everthing. Why are you also a witch?’‘

Excuse me, do I look like a goddamned saint to you?! What part of human did you not understand?

And before you bitterly start quoting the Old Testament, let me remind you that it’s Old for a reason. Christ came to this earth to give us new rules since he technically saved us and things became different. That’s why Jewish people follow the Old Testament, for them, the messiah hasn’t arrived yet. Not to mention that to them that testament is not Old, it’s just the Torah.

You can keep quoting the bible to me all you want. But in my short twenty years of life, I was thankfully able to learn a few things. One of them is that the world isn’t black and white. Yes, I know this sounds obvious but there are some really dumb people out there. Also, this is the hellscape that we call tumblr.

Anyway, as I have mentioned several times before, I’m a never-ending knowledge seeker I found the world beneath my feet is not pure myth and I want to explore it. Look at me go.

I keep a critical mind with everything. Faith and religion are not an exception. I’m not overly skeptic about faith itself, but I am of its writings, interpretations, translations and etc... I study history, it’s a skill you naturally develop.

And there’s quite a few plot-holes, characterization differences and much more. It was written by humans that couldn’t do a cohesive collaboration even if their lives depended on it. Godphones sometimes don’t get a good reception. There’s a ton of cultural context to unpack. I hear people saying all the time that taking the bible’s words literally is one of the most stupid things you can do.

And when I say people, I mean priests, clergy, theology students, etc... I didn’t hear this from my drug dealer in the street corner..

...... I don’t have a drug dealer.....

Anyway...

There are many problems with the catholic church. There are many problems with a ton of catholic and christians out there. I will never deny that. Shit needs to get fixed and maybe even chucked into the trash.

But I still believe in God, I still believe in the saints but I also still believe there are more gods and spirits out there. And those things are separate.

I have no interest in converting you. I’m just yelling into the void.

If you are one of those that no longer is a christian, or catholic because some dipshits banged self-hate onto your head, I’m really sorry. I hope you heal well and get the help you need in your new faith or lack of it. Banging the ten commandments back onto their heads repetiedly and tell them to actually read the damn book is optional, though.

In the end, if you are (or are trying) to be good, you deserve respect and freedom to worship whoever or whatever you want. You don’t need to be perfect, you can just strive to be the best you can be in your situation.

--------------------------------------------

And now back to our schedueled programing.

[ninja8tyu]

i was and am still watching a conservative youtuber who i think is pretty neat

i’m not sure if that’d trigger my audience, but yeah, i actually do follow a lot of people from a lot of beliefs and backgrounds

john doyle’s his name, he’s a pretty good dude, check him out

and this post isn’t about politics, just about christianity and history

i’m following him on twitter, he says both on his videos and his social media how christianity is the foundation of ethics and morals, and how atheists don’t have a foundation for morality (which honestly i both agree and disagree)

and well, i was thinking that yes, christianity did have a lot of influence in history, and so it’s undeniable how much it has influenced modern morals

personally, i don’t believe in some god going to torture you forever because you fucked up, or that there is a god that’s supposedly omnipotent, omniscient, and benevolent, that’s final, no arguments about that

however, god was invented for a reason, but for what? why was his existence born and then spread with the bible thousands of years ago?

control definitely seems like one good reason, and personally i think so too, but i realized just how easy it is to twist anything into a bad thing

maybe the creation of god wasn’t a form of controlling the public to think that slavery was good, divorce was bad, blacks are lesser, yadda yadda yadda

who invented him? what was its initial purpose?

god has changed through the times, every single person has a different perception of god, what is the purpose of inventing god?

what is god?

no doubt it’s an idea, but assuming it has been corrupted and twisted by bad people in the past, then what was it originally?

obviously it must have something to do with good, morality, justice, and ethics, because i doubt even the people back then would’ve scrapped this part of god, since i feel that people are more easily controlled by thinking they’re justice than they’re evil

john states that without believing that bad acts will be punished, because they’re always seen by god, encourages morality, and those who don’t believe in him are unrestricted in committing crimes

and of course, i agree and disagree; agree that most people wouldn’t commit a crime if they knew they would be seen and punished for it, but disagree that religion needs to be a foundation for morality/i think morals and ethics can come from just being a good person, and you don’t need to ask someone else to tell you what’s right or wrong, omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent, or not

and so i thought and thought

and i realized how god works as a tool

i recall during my tulpa research that some religious people have created their own version of god in their minds

and here’s my conclusion:

god is supposed to be a thoughtform that helps you keep in check your emotions and the like, to keep one moral and to keep a second eye watching even if you’re alone, so you never do bad things, at least on impulse, or maybe even to encourage you to ask for forgiveness from others when you did something wrong

god is a tulpa who tries to help you make you the best person that you can be

or at least, that’s what i think the original concept is and why he was made

he’s a friend in your head trying to make sure you don’t do dumb shit

or maybe that’s the guardian angel phenomenon and god is the explanation for why that is

he’ll scold you for doing something bad, guilt you if you don’t make up for it, or maybe something else i don’t know

but yeah, basically god or a god is a thoughtform meant to help you be the best person, at least in terms of morality, that you can be

and as for why it changed from “good ol’ buddy in your mind” to “CRUSADING TIME, PURGE THE BLASTPHEMISTS” over the thousand years, well, that’s everyone’s fault for twisting him around like that

i mean, any idea can be easily corrupted and turned evil

the swatstika wasn’t originally a symbol of genocide until hitler had his run with it, faggot originally referred to a bundle of sticks but now refers to the gays in a negative way because it was said so often during their burnings, and so on

so basically whoever the fuck invented god did do some good with his idea, but because humanity as a whole likes fucking shit up, god is actually a sexist racist little shithead who’ll smite you because it’s fun, and also purge anyone who doesn’t believe in him, and i promise a reward in the afterlife, or eternal torture, whichever one he feels like that day, and a boomer now

so yeah, big oof to whoever made god, if my conclusion is right

and also i was thinking about religion while i was dealing with my story and the tetralogy power and how i wanted to involve all of science, magic, philosophy, and religion to do something, not because i plan to become christian

i’m defining what’s right for myself, not because others say it’s right, so i’ll be remaining an atheist no matter what

simply put, i’m just interested in his origin, who he was originally before all the interpretations and twists people throughout the ages have put on him, and the history of influence god left behind

and no i didn’t do my research on god’s original origins, and honestly i feel that it’s probably not recorded anyway, else it really wouldn’t be “divine” and really show that god doesn’t exist and is man-made

[beaft]

Ok so I KNOW this is kinda in your faq but what’s the real answer about the abridged bible you wrote when you were 11? I need it

i’ll be honest: i wasn’t gonna answer this initially. not because i’m angry or anything! just because i get the same question every day, about ten times a day, both in my inbox and in my DMs, and it’s usually easier to just delete the asks and move on. but then i realised it’s actually been a while since i answered any questions about The Bible Post, and given the way it’s been blowing up recently, i probably should.

the answer to “are you going to publish the full thing?” is, “probably not, no.” 

the reasons for this are as follows:

when i publish things, i like them to be complete.

the Bible Post as it stands is 14 pages of choppy, unedited 11-year-old writing. apart from the bits you’ve seen, it’s not that funny, and it’s not that clever. a lot of it is jokes that i stole from monty python, or blackadder, or terry pratchett, or other things that i was into at the time. 

i don’t feel comfortable posting something (on ao3 or otherwise) that i’m unhappy with. that’s partly why i tend to delete old works that i no longer think are up to scratch, or current works that i can’t see myself finishing. (my 2010 fictionpress account is a barren desert with the occasional tumbleweed blowing sadly by.) 

the “probably” in my original answer is only there because someday (who knows?) i might rework it, and then publish it, if there’s enough interest. and i say “might”, because:

between my master’s degree, my job(s), and my original writing, i’m pretty swamped. that means i have to prioritise. i barely have enough time to write fic as it is (and i already feel guilty enough about that, as it’s technically just a hobby and not something that i need to be doing). 

when i rewrote the bible, i was an edgy preteen atheist who thought the idea of a big man in the sky was silly and that people who believed it were also silly. i no longer feel that way. this isn’t to say i can’t see the funny side of religion, or that i won’t ever parody it again - but i’d rather do so with humour that punches up rather than down, and is fair-minded rather than mean-spirited. 

i’d rather focus on my current creative output than rework old stories.

i don’t want to give the devil any more reasons to send me to hell.

if you want to know more, just mosey on down and click this ole link over here –> https://punkfaery.tumblr.com/tagged/the-bible-post

i hope this didn’t come across as snippy! i’m very glad that people are still enjoying that post; i just want to make it clear that you probably won’t see any more of it for the time being, unless someone else wants to have a go at redoing it. which they’re welcome to! i’m sure there are plenty of people out there who’d do a much better job than me.

peace out