#at least i know I'll always be an asexual lesbian even if i dont know if ill ever actually date girls

[cowboyjen68]

Hi Jen, and hello every butch reading this. I need your help.

I don't know where to begin, this has veen a problem for me for almost a decade now. I've followed you (Jen) for a few years now, and you're a very comforting figure to my brain, so I was hoping you and possibly others could help me out a bit. If not answers, then some good advice, open mindedness, patience, and possibly links to resources and helpful places. I've wanted to reach out to older butches and such about my issues with gender for a while, because I've flipped between a few and always have my mind coming back to butch in some form or another. Whether I act on it between each circle back or not, it stays.

I came out as some flavor of trans around 13, and then moved towards binary FtM around 14 or 15, which is when I met my first partner ever. I've had a ton of jumps back to being just kind of butch but in a weird middle butch state of not lesbian, not ftm, not anything but butch. I grew up in the midwest for 10 years (starting at 10,) and came out as a lesbian at 11 or 12. Regardless of how I was identifying in highschool, I was bullied and catcalled as a lesbian my whole childhood, seen as a d/ke, called it, I got the worst of it all, had girls try to kick my ass and dudes try to "turn me." I hung out with the fem cishet alt girls half my height and half my weight, carried them around, I was the ugly tall bitch that protected them. Had a wicked shaved head, wearing mens clothes handmedown, mens boots, brought a swiss army knife everywhere and my own wallet and housekeys. Getting pencils thrown at my head, smoking weed in the girls room, forced to change in the gender neutral stall for gym cause the school didnt know what to do with me. Guys would honk as they went past and shout dyke at me, so I started trying to blend in with highlighter shirts and jeans etc. Typical midwestern shit. I feel that despite now living as a man, i had the lived experience since a very young age (even before moving to the midwest,) of a butch. I am now fully living life as a cis man, stealth, and dating an amazing queer trans dude whose possibly genderfluid, and also very fem. He also identified as a lesbian for a long time and experienced a lot of toxicity there, and was nonbinary in his past, and I met him when he was agender and queer. He's amazing, I'm going to marry him, and he's everything I love in a partner. Feminine, went to cosmetology school, pretty nails, chubby, likes to bake and shop and wants to cook me steak, wants me to carry his stuff and his groceries, calls me his scary dog privleges, wants to scratch my sideshave. He realized he was trans and came out after we met, and I've been his biggest support against everything else, and I always will be. I love him, I'm attracted to him and he's the only person i ever have been. So I dont think I qualify anymore as a butch, despite using the term and being a butch for so many years. I was a butch, I still feel it even if I'm not really into many people at all including women (also on the aro/ace spectrum haha), but now I'm a man, I have a beard, I have a boyfriend I will never leave, who knows how I feel and loves me and we both know no matter where we end up gender wise or sexuality wise that pretty much me and him are it, and if it contradicts, who gives a shit, yknow?

My dating history has always been feminine nbs, feminine trans boys, and femme lesbians. I have never dated a masculine cis man, masculine nb, anyone masculine at all. For lack of better terms due to my situation, I have always been butxh4femme and at least masc4fem. I have always been the guardian and gentle giant of my fem partners, I also am mostly a stone butch due to sexual trauma and asexuality. Due to my aroace-ness, I've also hardly dated literally anyone lmao! Maybe 3 people longterm and seriously in my entire 21 years. This is getting really long, and I'll be honest, I've been yelled out of all communities I've been in for being so damn complicated. I'm scared I'll hurt mt partner and he'll feel I don't see him as he is, I'm scared I'll hurt lesbians despite living and growing as one most of my life, I'm scared I'll hurt me by identifying as butch because I feel like I'll have to detransition. I also kinda look fuck ugly without a beard nowadays, cause lord knows I've shaved that shit fullon twice now because of this exact issue.

I want to be called sir, and I love being on T. I hate getting a period, and my bottom dysphoria is agonizing, but I probably wont get bottom surgery. I want to not be catcalled. I want to get top surgery eventually, and maybe I don't want a full beard. I wanna cut all the sleeves off my shirts again and get some sexy workboots and jeans. I know I want my pretty femboy boyfriend on my arm forever, I don't care how he ends up identifying or me either, and to see him wear his dress on our wedding day. I want to be butch but still be seen as a man, but I don't think I'm allowed because so many people have shit on me for it and said I'm not. But I still wear my keys on my belt. I still lift the heavy shit, emotionally or physically, every day for him. I still do my role, I still protect the people around me. But I don't want people to look at me when I say butch and assume me or my boy are women, out of respect for him and me too.

Advice needed, please, anybody that's willing to help me and help me find my path. It's been so back and fourth so long. Thank you.

- R

i am sorry for taking so long. Fall is a very busy season with all my jobs ramping up and getting ready for winter on the homestead.

Your writing was a lot to absorb and I admit I read it several times and had to come back because it weighed on my emotions and heart heavily. I was driving tractor last night so I had lot of thinking time. I went over in my head how you much feel, how I could possibly answer this with any coherant advice or even just some comforting words.

You are only 21, my advice if you were my child (i have 3--25 year olds, a 22 year old and a 16 yo), would be to slow your roll. 3 serious relationships by 21 is a lot. At a time when we are sort of socially and mentally programmed to be free and using our energy to exlplore our individuality you were putting efforts into maintaining viable relationships with other people who were probably also trying to figure themselves out. I was 23 before I even had one serious relationship and i was probably still NOT ready for it.

When we never live a single life or a life on our own it becomes hard to separate who we are from our partner. It is normal to bounce off of each other and to both want badly to share the same values, identity and interestes EVEN if as individuals those things might never have lined up.

I am NOT a therapist nor can I possibly know you or your exact feelings, I can only go by what you told me. When I am asked for advice I am honest but kind, go from my experiences and or those stories I have been told by friends. Sometimes what I say is NOT what you want or expected to hear. That is okay. You can take what I say or leave it. Or use what helps, ignore what doesn't . So here it goes.

My point about you both meeting young,and thus relying on each other to work on your individuality comes into play here. You are both, I am guessing around 21. Neither of you have had any time to forge exactly who you are. Stastically what are the chances of two women who both lived as a lesbian meeting after you transitioned  and the partner ALSO being trans but not coming out until AFTER the fact. Until after the relationship has progessed.? Speaking in terms of how many trans people are in the population that feels like quite a statistical anomally. What are the chances? Now I suck and math and I know the percentage of any given population in the LGBT+  community as compared to greater society seems sketchy, based on shitty research and at best a bad guess. It just gives me a bit of pause and might give you some food for thought, a chance to think over outside influence vs life long dysphoia or other factors. 

 I preface this by saying I can in no way know you or your partner or pasts or any actual feelings, only what you have told me. I appreciate your stark honesty and your willingness to admit you are struggling. Reaching out is hard even as an anon. Is it in any way possible your partner was influenced heavily by wanting badly to share your life, your values, to feel more inline with you and to feel more close to you and to solidify the relationship in a space that she perceives as more comfortable to you. OR perhaps even your friend group?  

You talk aboout pressure from all sides to be this or be that and if you are a trans man I am sure she was getting not too subtle pressure to not use lesbian even though she was maybe just fine with that, it felt right. There is a vicious push from inside the house to tell people how to describe their sexuality and relationship when it is no one’s business. Others feel uncomfortable when two people live their lives as they see fit and don’t rely on how people perceive them to be happy. It makes some people nuts  in fact. 

To your concern about detransitioning or not or what makes you happy. I know detransitioners and they slide just fine back into the lesbian community they used to have or they have found their own new lesbians friend group. It is not impossible. At many events I have been to in my life, women’s festivals included, there were tans men there who lived soley as men outside the protective walls of women spaces but were happy to be seen as women within the safety of the limited time and space of the event. You can find community among lesbian no matter how you land, it just takes a little bravery and ultimately being okay with yourself. 

I am not going to tell you it is easy no matter the path you choose. Reidentifying as a woman with a full beard and staying on T is never going to be as easy as just saying “I am THIS “. You would have to spend time coming back out, explaining etc until such a time you formed a community who knows you and understands your past. 

Everything you described that you love is everything I love about being butch, I am short, 5′3 so I didn’t experience some things like you have as tall woman in high school, BUT I was definitely clocked as a lesbian even with great effort to be seen has just wearing “typical midwestern shit”. My entire wardrobe was T shirts, sweatshirts, jeand and tennis shoes. I gave up my beloved cowboy boots because others said they made me “look even more like a boy” and in the 1980′s I tranlated that to “butch lesbian” even if I did not have those words. I knew damn well what they were inferring.  

I also know lesbians who take T and remain in the lesbian community, they just feel they need to pass more as men in the larger world for their peace of mind, safety, job, whatever. So deciding that lesbian and butch is right for you does not mean you can’t continue to utilize tools that help you to feel okay. 

This is getting a bit long and I will admit I am unendingly biased, I have never denied that and don’t hide the fact that I think being a butch lesbian is wonderful. GIven all the factors and insecurities you have shared with me being a butch seems like the path of least resistance. Cutting back on T, not constantly worrying about “am I or am I not” and getting back to the basics of what you seemed to understand as you were coming out, before there was transitioning on your table. EVEN in the face of bullying and knowing being a lesbian was not desirable to the outside world you could not escape it and you came out. Perhaps because when you can’t escape you meet something head on and embrace it since that pulls power from the outsiders. 

When you and your partner are alone, away from all others. In the safety of you bed, talking softly and about your day or your plans tomorrow, the world gets no say. You both know that is true in your hearts and please don’t let those in the world, in our own community poison that with pressure and accusations. DO NOT give them control of  your heart, of your love. 

Best of luck and butch hugs to you.

[potentially-lemongrass]

hey! um i wanted to ask a bi queerstake member whose dated about this, um I want to marry in the temple and I know that means I'll have to marry a AMAB person, is it bad that I want a nb/nb aligned masc person or at least a bisexual or asexual partner? i feel like i wont find someone like that, I just want someone who understands and is also queer but also fits kind of with the church narrative. is that weird? you dont have to answer this I just wanted to ask since no one talks about it i guess

honestly my perspective on dating has changed a lot since meeting B so I might say something completely different to what I was saying in previous months. (and of course, as always, this is just Ryn’s Opinion TM so take what you will). Also, looong post incoming as this is also a bit of a life update/journal entry since it’s been a while. I’m using B to respect his privacy and as always, I know that i’m super personal on here but please don’t try to doxx me or find out more than I’m willing to share <3 I’m slightly paranoid so I feel like I always need to say that. 

ANYWAY, I am still decidedly bisexual ✌ and so I’ll fight against bi erasure all day long since I’m a cis woman dating a cishet man. I will never be a straight woman and B totally understands and respects that. However, it also doesn’t exactly matter?? since I’ve chosen him so I’m not dating any men OR women.

Before meeting him, I was thinking about dating in the abstract especially since I really never had a serious relationship with anyone. I was fantasizing about dating girls and feeling deeply cheated that the Church was robbing me of that opportunity. I was angry, deeply depressed, and just generally not in a good mental place.

Coming to college was when I decided I wasn’t mentally going to “do” Church anymore. I skipped a few Sundays, and still signed up for Institute but I was angry and very determined to distance myself from the Church. I had to know if I even wanted to do this with my life and part of my master plan was getting a girlfriend. (although with the caveat that dating a girl, *just* to date a girl and not a guy, isn’t the best plan and I should have been more focused on romance)

I didn’t expect to meet B and when I did, I was deeply worried about getting a man who was “Peter Priesthood” and I would never be able to share my queer identity with him. B isn’t at all like that. He spent enough time around the queer kids in high school to really get a feel for the struggle and he’s never ever made me feel weird about it. He’s even encouraged and asked me to talk about it so I didn’t feel like I had to hide anything.

I came to two conclusions (well, maybe two and a half). 1) I’m definitely bisexual. Over the summer, I had briefly wondered if I was a lesbian and comp het was just taking its toll. Nope. Men are hot and my bf is absolutely a snack. So if anyone is looking for advice about figuring out sexuality, just try dating someone. I totally believe that you can know your sexuality without experience but it most definitely helps if you know what you’re talking about.

2) I missed church. I hadn’t realized it until I walked away but I truly do have a testimony and I longed for the presence of the Spirit in my life. So I chose to turn back. I read my scriptures and prayed sincerely and listened at church. No, I’m not entirely happy with the Church. There are things that make me cry and cringe and grit my teeth, but I have decided that I want to be here.

Part of that realization was B. My friend asked me if I could see myself getting married in the temple and I realized suddenly that I could. Suddenly it wasn’t a faceless man dragging me into a suburban life of mommy minivans and LDS conformity. It was the thought of B and I, holding hands and promising each other forever in the most eternal sense and it was me, making covenants with Heavenly Father. He and I both know that I’ve always had real joy in my life when I was doing my best to keep His commandments.

What I really needed was to accept my queer identity and feel like I could date girls if I wanted to. Finding B and finding my testimony were linked, as wild it is to say.

Not to say that that road would be easy. I’m not even close to being ready for marriage. B and I are figuring things out, both between us and with the Church. If faith was neat and simple, it wouldn’t be such an enduring theme throughout all of history.

 But maybe sometime in the next 5 years? Maybe in 2-3 years? I might be Mrs. Lemongrass. (pffft yes we’ll assume we’re taking my tumblr url as a last name lmao)

SO now you’re wondering about how that applies to your actual question. There will definitely be people in the Church who match what you’re looking for. My philosophy is that there really is someone out there for everyone. You’re trying to forecast for the future which is great and necessary but love doesn’t happen in the abstract. A Relationship TM isn’t some nebulous concept or a copy and paste letter. It’s what happens when you and a specific other person like each other a whole lot and it goes from there. Your relationship won’t look like mine or your parents or anyone else’s because you and your future partner are unique people.

So you totally may find someone in the Church who is queer and down for a temple marriage. Keep in mind as well that you may also find someone in the Church who is cishet and that works too. Just because someone isn’t queer doesn’t mean they can’t understand--assuming no one will ever understand you has always felt arrogant and dismissive of the power of empathy imho--so a cishet guy could be just as amazing.

So there’s no need to feel bad about wanting a specific type of person but don’t close yourself off! Enjoy the journey and put yourself out there with confidence. No one is good at relationships; they’re inherently awkward. You’ll say dumb stuff or fart in front of them or they’ll overshare and you’ll panic. Just trust the process, laugh at yourself, and realize the only thing you can really do is live in *this* moment. I hope this doesn’t sound condescending at all! This is just all my big sister advice that I can think of. Remember that you are loved, always, always, always by our Heavenly Parents and They’ll help you figure stuff out.

[uselessfrick]

I'm pretty sure there's a homophobe in my 1st period class.

So yesterday me (I'll be "B") and my friend, we'll call her "A" were talking about the LGBTQ+(my friend is apart of it, and im an ace{i mentioned that separately because depending on who you ask, im more of an ally than part of the community, but that's ok I can be an ally}) community, and I asked a question that I was always curious about. Here's the conversation (also my friend is not the homophobe, he'll come in later in the story/rant):

B: so I have a question, but I've always been afraid to seem offensive.

A: it's ok, what's your question?

B: you know how there are some extremists from religion that don't like homosexual or trans people? I was gonna ask if someone born in a female body, but he is a man, and someone born in a male's body but there a woman, if they were in a relationship do you think that the extremist would like they're relationship?

A: well, I think they would probably agree with the relationship, but still target them because of their genders.

(Here is where "C" comes in {i have it that way because this was a conversation between A and B and he needed to C his way out of it.)

C: So you're saying that all people who practice religion are extremists?

A: No, and we clearly said "some people from religions"

B: Seriously, if you were going to eavesdrop and bud into our conversation then you should've at least evesdropped right.

C goes back to his computer work but it doesn't end there.

(Sometime later in the conversation, we were talking about the flags and why most of the time asexual/aromantic flags are not represented in videos where they explain what each means)

A: no, I get what you mean but sometimes people will demand to have it replace another flag, like bisexual, even though that's kind of ridiculous.

B: yeah. There are always going to be some people like that tho, in every group. Like how some people think that if a bi person tends to lean towards one side that they automatically aren't bi, or if they don't like someone then all the sudden the person is saying "oh that just means that they don't like my gender" even though it's not.

A: I know right, I mean im a lesbian

C looks up in disgust: oH i DoNt AgReE wItH tHaT.

A: what do you mean you don't agree, it was a fact, you can't just disagree with someone's sexuality just because you don't like it.

C: oh i take an ethics class so i know everything (then he goes on to incoherent mumbling)

The bell rings

C: by the way i'Ll cAlL pEoPlE bY tHeY'rE bIoLoGiCaL gEnDeRs (and get this) BECAUSE THERES ONLY TWO

B: what about a person born with both genitalia, huh?

C:thats no-

B: no, it's very possible what do you call them since "there's only two genders"

A: yeah, seriously what do you call them?

C stays silent, finally.

B: see? You don't even know, because there's not only two, there's a whole spectrum and just because you can't comprehend it doesn't mean it dosen't exist!

C walks away.

A: seriously what was with that guy.

B: i know!

We continue to walk to our next class and are still mad by 4th period.

[imagined-comfort]

Advice from gladio and ignis. I'm a lesbian,have been in a relationship with a girl for 6 months. I'm asexual and she dont mind, but I always catch her masturbatin or watching porn, always done when I'm around where she knows I'll be. she talks nonstop bout how she wants to fuck other guys and get creampied and I'm disgusted. literally talking bout cheating on me infront of me? I wanna break up for multi reasons, but I don't want it to seem like " the lesbian not dating the bi" how do I do it?

Hey babe,

..I don’t like hearing what she’s doing. What she’s talking about...that’s unfair to you. 

If she was really ok with you being asexual, then she’d find some other way of...well....what I mean is, with something like this I think communication is key. You need to explain your needs to each other, not just say you want to--*sigh*--yeah. Let’s just say this is another reason to add to your list of why you wanna break up with her. 

She doesn’t seem to respect you. 

Not ‘minding’ your sexuality in the way she seems to be doing is also denying your emotional needs, right?

Honestly, if someone says, or judges you on the fact that you broke up with her because she’s bisexual...then I think you should remind who ever asks you to one: remember that she was willingly talking about cheating on you, and two: it’s none of their fucking business even if that was a reason. 

You’re not that shallow. You never have been. 

Gladiolus is right Darling, this whole situation is unfair to you. And it sounds as if you already have a multitude of reasons for ending this relationship. This, is simply one more to add to the list. Much as I wish there was a way to perhaps talk with her about things, and change the outcome, I think you know already what you must do.

How shall you do such a thing?

Concern yourself more for how you feel than how she does, and do not concern yourself with what others will think of you. While this sounds harsh and easier said than done, it will be the best way for you to start to let her go, so that you can sever ties as cleanly as possible. This way you can start to move forward from here, and perhaps find someone that is willing to be so much more respectful of you. 

You are not simply a “lesbian unwilling to date someone that’s bi” you are “ending a relationship with someone that has mentioned being unfaithful and who was using your sexuality as an excuse.” 

At least, this is how it seems to us. 

Know that if you need help further, we will be here for you Darling. We promise.

With Love, Gladio and Ignis