#ask me about my wlw joanna ships!

[joannalannister]

PINK CRINOLINE ↳ Margot Robbie as Joanna Lannister ♛ Shohreh Aghdashloo as Loreza Martell ↳ ↳ WLW midcentury AU

I was never spellbound by a starry sky What is there to moon glow, when love has passed you by Then there came a midnight and the world was new Now here am I so spellbound, darling Not by stars, but just by you

1945. Still reeling from her husband’s death, Loreza Martell knows her people have no time for grief. In San Francisco, delegates from 50 nations meet to decide who will lead the post-war world, and Dorne cannot--will not--be left behind. But as a charter to unite the nations is written, Loreza finds only loneliness in this cold, foggy city ... until a young translator for the Conference catches her eye. Joanna is quick and clever, and her hands are warm, but her husband is not one for sharing. The two women enter into a forbidden affair, with deadly consequences. 

[the-hilda-librarians-wife]

I worry a lot about how Hilda’s dad will be handled.... he is never mentioned by hilda or johanna, except for being implied in the mountain king comic by something hilda said. he’s in no family pictures. if he is alive he is not there for hilda at all. even if he died before hilda was born, why no mention of him? it feels like he’s not meant to be a part of the story. And I just... love Hilda and Joanna’s dynamic.... And I want Joanna to have development w/o Hilda’s dad involved....

And as a lesbian, there is something special about single mom characters with no mention of the father in the story. So yeah, I am biased I guess.... but still, I wish if he was going to be important there was hints or any kind of build up to it from the beginning. (also even if Johanna is bi, which is valid, I still prefer the story as is without Hilda’s dad jfgdgjgjfrgj) Also, thank you so much for reading these anons.... I’d love to hear any thoughts you have on the topic too.... ^^

Hey nonny! First of all, thank you for these asks!

I wholeheartedly agree with you. I remember before I began shipping sketchbook, I used to think Hilda’s dad would be a sailor, because there’s a lot of boat imagery in their house. But looking back, that really would be bad foreshadowing. Taking in consideration season 1, there’s nothing to link back to a father. For this reason, in my humble opinion, the appearance of a father in season two would only serve the purpose of shock value. And I’m really hoping that Hilda (the cartoon, not the character ncncbcncncjbckxbxn) is better than that.

One of my most common thoughts about season 2 is that I don’t want the librarian’s character development to revolve around a man, but I had never thought about the same happening to Johanna. Now that you mention it, if a father is included, it... really might happen. And it’s such a bad prospect. Johanna is one of the characters I want to see more of, and there’s SO MUCH to develop and explore with her character.

As for being biased... me too bitch, the fuck

Lmao okay, you’re in wlw zone here, my friend. There is something SO SPECIAL about a single mum with no mention of a father. I personally headcanon Johanna as bi, but for the reasons that were discussed above, I really wouldn’t like for a male character to pop up as her love interest, even as a former one. I may be as biased as you, but like... we’re from an under represented group, and we saw the chance to relate and project onto a character. To have that taken from us by bad writing would be really sad, and there’s no shame in being worried about how that will be handled. In fact, you can be sure you’re not the only one who is. I can assure you that I am too.

All that being said, I imagine this ask was sent because of the Bellkeeper? I mean, it isn’t related to him, but all the wlw Johanna stans have become a little uneasy because of this guy, so maybe you were encouraged to send the asks because the bell guy made you all “ugh” as well. If that’s the case, my friend (doesn’t even watch Hilda, just listens to my bs like a real angel lmao) pointed something really interesting out! Usually, shows make love interests have contrasting colours, and Johanna and Mr. Bell have the same colour pallete. So I think that may be a reason not to worry! My money is on them being related.

But whatever happens, you can rest assured that there will always be place for our sapphic Johanna headcanons in the fandom. She’s a character that matters a lot to us, and if we see ourselves in her, not even canon can really take that away from us. We have a nice, supportive little community over here, and even if we don’t like how the situation is handled on the show, hey, that’s what fix-it fic is for 😅

Btw nonny, you sound like a really cool person! If you ever want to talk more about Hilda or about whatever, feel free to dm me! Once more thanks for the ask, talking about this makes my own worries about the matter feel smaller

[rtarara]

On Supergirl and Homophobia

I am seeing a lot of posts saying how calling out what happened at SDCC as homophobic is ‘ridiculous’. I’d like to address first the scope of what homophobia is, then move onto how the incident was driven by homophobia. 

Definitions:

When you hear the term homophobia, it conjures up images of assault or of slurs being thrown out in the open. This is often not the case. Incidences of homophobia can range from the above to smaller instances that make you question whether of not you’re being ‘hysterical’ or ‘dramatic’ for thinking you’re being discriminated against or not. Merriam-Webster defines homophobia as: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals. 

An example that I have in my own life is that my conservative Christian relatives often ‘forget’ to call and invite me to gatherings. Another is that they will avoid any talk saying I’m married. In these cases, it falls under aversion for not wanting to be around us because we’re gay, and discrimination for not treating our marriage as equal to that of my sister or cousins. It would be easy in the silence to say that these things were the result of personality conflicts or something in my own behavior (Was I too touchy? Did I say something that mentioned homosexuality or gay culture when they didn’t want to hear it?), but time, study and the support of allies in my family has helped me to see the behavior for what it is: homophobia. 

The Issue:

In the case of the SDCC video, we see Jeremy Jordan start off singing about the season and joking that hoover was the only thing that rhymed with Vancouver. It was fun and silly. He moved on to sing that Kara Met Lena and they were best friends. This was great. He then, unprompted, turned to the camera and shouted that they were only friends. By changing his focus to the camera, he shifted the address to the people watching and those who shipped Supercorp specifically. This is an audience of predominately young queer women. Melissa Benoist loudly joined in and Jeremy continued that they were not getting together and they were only friends. The rest of the cast present was laughing. 

The cast gleefully mocked and dismissed a group of young queer fans. By addressing them directly, this action was a form of silencing and bullying. Part of his message was to shut up about queer things because they won’t be canon. It was a JOKE to think they could be.

The greater societal context of that is that they won’t be canon, BECAUSE it’s two women. The level of joy in the mockery was really a way of distancing themselves from gay people and othering them. This is an act of homophobia because wlw (supercorp supporters) were singled out for mockery and silencing. It had a profound negative effect on a lot of people. This is a natural human reaction to being mocked, especially for disenfranchised groups because it is devaluing those who are already devalued by society.

During the recap they also failed to mention the canon lesbian storyline, which was one of the bigger ones for the year, lending to the overall impression that gay people were not important or welcome or worthy of any sort of inclusion. 

The interviewer spoke that, “Any show like this naturally has such a fandom that there’s the natural shipping that goes on.” He gestures to Melissa and Katie and says ‘your two characters, you know about this...” They joked about having no idea while Mechand was like ‘I know about this.” Between that and the singing, this shows that the fandom is one that the show is aware of, members of which (young queer girls), they have been seeing online and at various events. They have a context for who they are talking about. 

Jeremy then took over and said that he felt like he was going to get destroyed, Melissa said something along the lines of, “Maybe, yes” and Jeremy gave a joking ‘I’m sorry’ and said “I just debunked Supercorp live.” Melissa said, “That’s pretty brave.” 

Yes, Supercorp is a vocal fandom. It’s a large fandom, but calling it brave to mock a group of wlw publicly because they might be called out on their homophobia speaks to the self-congratulatory martyrdom of those who speak out against gay marriage and then point out how ‘cruel’ gay people are when they get blowback for it. It’s a lousy thing to do and it serves a greater homophobic purpose as setting up wlw as the ones perpetrating bigotry and ‘forcing their beliefs on people’.  

The interviewer asked if they were caught off guard by fans seeing things that might be there or could be there and what they made of it at this point. 

Melissa said that, ‘It was surprising, not what Katie and I expected to say the least.” She looked very uncomfortable at the prospect of a character she plays being perceived as queer, but did not say anything further negatively. 

Katie was very affirming/not at all uncomfortable. She spoke about how she often plays character with that subtext and she thought this time that it wasn’t there, but, “Wow I was wrong, apparently.” She went on to say that they’d talked about it and was adamant about how wonderful it was that people could take away so many things from the art that they created—that anyone could read into and see anything and that was what THEY saw in it, then to take that away. This was wonderful and a great example of being a great ally. Melissa did nod along at this point as Katie tried to elevate the conversation.  

Chris broke in and said, “Sexuality is all about others perceptions of yours.” He tried to cover it by saying, “That was sarcasm.” This was really a particularly vicious jab because what he was implying was that it’s terrible of gay people to see themselves in this characters because they’re straight. It implies that by not seeing them as 100% straight, queer people are invalidating their (the fictional character’s in this case) straight sexuality and that is wrong. He is saying that a queer reading of the text has no value. It is homophobic because it devalues queer people and plays into a heterosexist world view that because something seems straight it CAN’T be queer.  

Jeremy played the, “I went to musical theater school. I know all about other people’s perceptions of sexuality.” As to say that being perceived as gay was a negative experience that he knew a lot about. 

There was a lot to unpack in a relatively short interaction, but I hoped this helped explain to some extent. There is also the fact the wlw representation has historically been treated as a joke, ratings stunt, or way to titillate straight men. Mocking what would be a really healthy ship based on mutual support as some sort of lunacy is incredibly harmful. 

A Few Themes:

1. It wasn’t that supercorp was gay. It was just that those fans are annoying/intense.

There is definitely a section of fans who is too intense and lacks boundaries and manners. I’ve seen this section of fans in a lot of fandoms, both in wlw ships and in sci-fi fandom in general. It does not make it right, but young wlw fans are the ones being singled out AS A GROUP for it. This is really common with minorities and it in no way excuses degrading them because they are girls who like girls. Mocking a group of queer people and making them a punchline is not an appropriate response to this. 

2. Well Eliza says things about Bellarke so it wasn’t just Supercorp.

The possible Supercorp relationship in no way degrades either of the characters or a marginalized group of people (as is the case when Eliza speaks about Bellarke). She has also, to my knowledge, never directly mocked those shippers in song. There is no history of straight ships being mocked or derided. This is an apples to oranges comparison. 

3. They were shitty to Rahul so they deserve it. People are just responding.

There were some very shitty things said to that man and he didn’t deserve it. Some were from Supercorp shippers and some were from people mocking Supercorp shippers (the tweet that he retweeted and called out was mocking the wlw fans by being shitty to him). This is why it was completely acceptable for him to talk about the intensity of the Supergirl fandom and even Supercorp. He didn’t mock anyone and people were not mad at him, they just wished that the hate was less visible and that things had gone down differently.

That doesn’t mean that the cast has a free ticket to mock wlw shippers.

4. It’s just a fanon ship, so they’re sick of being asked about it. They are being too pushy.

Content creators decided to tap into fandom as a revenue stream and way to increase ratings/merchandise sales. I think this shift started around Twilight and the Jacob vs Edward debates. Content creators encourage shipping to promote sales. It’s not altruistic. They almost always leave any mention of queer ships out. Queer people have stopped accepting that because they are less afraid than they used to be. It’s actually pretty brave to ask in the vast flurry of Peeta vs Gale, to declare yourself Team Joanna and ask about that. It isn’t rude to be gay and engage in the same way as straight shippers do. It isn’t rude to see your ships as equally valid. There are those who take it too far in all aspects of shipping, but gay people aren’t terrible for pushing for representation. 

I think it would be more productive to ask why actors were so bothered by the idea of a main character being bisexual that they decided to mock a large swath of their fanbase. 

5. They didn’t mean it. They have done X, Y, Z things for gay people in the past.

Doing something homophobic, doesn’t mean you are strictly a giant homophobe. Everyone is a little homophobic in the way that everyone is a little racist. Growing up in a heterosexist society does a lot of damage. What matters is learning and moving on. I’m going to give Jeremy a chance to show change. Good allies listen when they’re told that they’ve made a mistake. The rest of the cast has not apologized yet, but if they can do so meaningfully and show change as well, then that would be for the best. 

6. People are Overreacting

You don’t get to decide how people feel about being mocked for their sexuality. They are not being awful for posting things like this, calling out bad actions and asking for change. They aren’t even wrong for saying that they no longer wish to watch the show or interact with a certain actor or actress.  

You CAN call out individuals if they are using hateful language themselves, as always, but you can’t lump all the hurt wlw shippers together in one boat and say negative things about them.