#as I’ve learned marrying outside of her faith as a woman isn’t really allowed anyways

[lesbianfakir]

I was just going to give fakir’s parents names and a little bit of backstory for my fic but now I’m on jstor reading a book about interfaith marriages between Muslim women and non-Muslim men. Help me

[dearmrsbitch]

March 5, 2020 - And the Christians and the Pagans sat together at the table...

 Q. Can’t support a pagan friend: I’m a thirtysomething who lives in a midsize West Coast city with very liberal sensibilities that I share. There’s a reason I moved here! I am also a Christian who goes to a mainstream Protestant church. I’ve never seen much disconnect between the two and I have many friends of other faiths, primarily Muslim and Jewish, whose religious functions I sometimes attend, like a wedding or a child’s entry into life or their religion. I value getting to experience these things with my friends and learning more about them, their religions, and the world. I grew up poor in the South but was lucky that we were always clean, well-fed, and warm. A good friend who lived in my neighborhood could not say the same and her unfortunate start in life has affected her ability to thrive as an adult. She is divorced from an abusive husband, in recovery for alcoholism, and trying to support two children with little help from her ex and often active hindrance from her dysfunctional family. Health issues make it hard for her to work, and poverty gets in the way of her work as well, as she sometimes can’t afford a uniform she needs or fix her car to get to work, and has been fired from one position because of her bad teeth that are a result of years of not having money to care for them. I have a lot of sympathy for her and her children.

 She has written a few children’s books about her faith and has set up a small independent internet business to offer services connected with her belief system. I would love to support her, but she is pagan/Wiccan. This isn’t exactly a problem, as I don’t think it’s immoral. I just don’t want a children’s book on spells or to spend money on a tarot reading. My old friend spends a lot of time online talking about things like her “marriage” to a Norse deity that just make me roll my eyes in a way I know I should be ashamed about. I could probably get over my aversion to this and at least donate to her nonreligious crowdsourcing page that is just asking for money for utilities and food for her kids, but she also spends a lot of time online talking about how awful Christians are. Just Christians. While I know I’m not fully supportive of her faith, at least I know it’s bad of me to judge her on hers. I would never publicly demean her or her religion, much less do it several times a week. I feel so bad for her and would like to help, but every time I get close to donating, I just think about how much she hates people of my faith. Should I donate anyway?

Dear Christian type person,

Well, I think you’re all being deluded, but that aside....

Look, I’m a hardcore atheist, but when I get invited to a religious event, like a baptism, Bat Mitzvah, etc., I bring a gift, I spend money, I sit through nasty religious wedding services that declare marriage only between a man and a woman and bite my tongue because I don’t want to interrupt my friend’s vows with the priest their mom told them to get or she wouldn’t pay, etc.

If you’re comfy buying a gift for a Bris, you can buy a book from her.  Donate it to a library or the Spiral Scouts, or something pagan friendly.  It’s all the same.  If you’re spending money on a Muslim themed gift for your friend, you can spend money on a Pagan book.  Because from the outside, it looks like you’re okay with conferring with other “People of the Book,” but like, fuck them pagans.

Most of your rituals come from the Pagans by the way, your religion at this point, besides the Monotheism (with a trinity?) has more in common with modern day Wicca than you think, except, you all hate gays and women, where most Pagans are cool with that. 

Light your Christmas tree, worship your chocolate bunnies.. burn your incense in temple.

Now, let me surprise you. I’m not anymore a fan of Paganism than of any other religion, they just sit a bit higher because they aren’t as much of assholes as the rest of the faiths usually.  They drink more, fuck more, dance more, etc. Less hateful usually.  But I laugh as much as being married to a Norse god as you do - however, how are those nuns doing that are married to Christ?   Cause either you see the hypocrisy there, or you’re just prejudiced because one is you, and one is them.  Pagan religions invented the idea of being a “bride of a god,” long before the big three were a blip on the map. 

Her ideas pre-date yours, and even if they’re not mentally healthy, you have to remember that they don’t seem normal because you live in a heavily Christian society.  A society that she has to contend with on a daily basis.  One that mocks her, one that discredits her views.  ONE WHERE DAMN NEAR EVERY POLITICIAN LEGISLATES IN ACCORDANCE TO CHRISTIANITY WITH NO RESPECT FOR OTHERS. 

People are allowed to be upset about the dominant view of a society if they are a minority group that is essentially - doing nothing wrong.  She’s existing as a pagan, and maybe her religious beliefs are that churches should pay their taxes, child genital mutilation should be outlawed, etc etc., and she has no chance to see her religion respected in the same way that yours is.  You may be liberal, but, little one, you are still adhering to a system that is overall, highly conservative, demeans women, donates to vicious shock therapy programs that cause teens to kill themselves when they can’t “pray the gay away,” and HIDES THE SYSTEMATIC RAPE AND ABUSE OF CHILDREN.  (Protestants too, Catholics just like to rape boys more.  Get the sexism there?  Our society cares less about the little girls raped in Protestant churches than the little boys in Catholic ones.)

God damn.  Fuck.  How do you not see this?  I have a friend whose husband is a super hippy Christian dude.  He had to vet every charity he gave to.  You know why?  Because even the most progressive looking Christian charities can have their money funneled to gay conversion therapy, or to the Salvation army that turns away gay people and transgender individuals who need a place to sleep.  He didn’t find one really good religious charity that he felt he could trust beyond a shadow of a doubt to trust with his parishioners donations.  No matter how liberal you are - you still sucking on Chick-Fil-A and acting like bigot chicken ain’t a big deal.

She has a right to criticize the religion as a whole.  If she lived in Israel, she’d be upset about Jewish law, in a Muslim country, Sharia law.  Because the big three aren’t fair and just in their application of law.  Sure she’s got a chip on her shoulder and maybe her whole life is her fault, but she still gets to complain that the dominant religion of the country, one that professes “Love your neighbor,” does not have national healthcare, and churches are basically tax shelters for money that could do so much for all of us, and that evangelicals cheer on the caging of children just because they are brown.  If you love Jesus so much, then FUCKING ACT LIKE HIM.  Christians in this country, by and large, would be hated by Jesus, loathed even for the sheer hypocrisy.  Watch “Jesus Camp,” those are the fucks she’s railing against.  

And you, you my dear liberal Christian.  What would he say about you?  He picked up several people maligned by society and took them in, and fed them, and helped them.  He commanded you to do unto others, and do good in his name.  And she is asking for donations to help with utilities and food for her kids, and you’re upset because you don’t like her Facebook quotes. 

People like you are why I left religion finally, entirely.  I realized there was no amount of religion than can make a good person do more good, but religion will make a good person do bad things, in its name.

Mrs. Bitch

[bartsugsy]

Is it just me or is anyone else so offended by Rebecca's character because she is such a pale shadow of female representation? I'm outraged that in the 21st century a woman can be not even a set of character traits, but literally a walking (nice dressed) uterus who bends in the wind. No agency whatsoever. Deplorable! Rebecca makes me miss the 90s and the riot grrrl movement. She makes me want to daub myself in blood and put on a baby doll dress and scream into the abyss. What were they thinking?

ah anon, you know i can’tresist a good rebecca ask. it’s my weakness.

and like... you’re really not wrong.

i mean, i don’t know if it offends me - well, yes, it does, buti think rebecca was brought in for a few specific narrative purposes and iguess that’s ok in and of itself, but they’ve never fleshed her out into muchof a real character beyond those purposes so she exists in her currentiteration as a supporting character and they don’t seem to have any desire tochange that. which. just makes it uncomfortable, the more you think about it. andapparently I’ve thought about it a bunch.

i think the other thing is… those narrative purposes she has aremostly related to male characters. they’ve fleshed this out a little but mostlyshe’s been fairly irrelevant to every storyline - except one. there is onestoryline in which she is completely necessary in her function and it is clearly entirely the reason why she was brought in in the first place.

what i’m saying is that rebecca white literally exists todevelop robert sugden as a character and prop up his relationship with aaron.

(you could maybe argue that she is important to the whitestorylines but those have had very little long term affects beyond the waysthat link robert to the whites. i want to go into this more but i need toactually rewatch her white storyline stuff first, so maybe i’ll change my mind,but tbh it feels more like… her relationship with her family is a by-product ofbringing her in for her main purpose of affecting robert and robron. again,that’s for another post)

but that in turn leads to her being written like an inconsistentplot device. i think i’ve sort of developed enough of a fanwanky reasoningbehind her actions so far, but it doesn’t work as well as i’d like. it doesessentially boil down to her being in love with robert, though - she’s, ithink, actually a very tragic character and i have a lot of sympathy for her -but it takes a hell of a lot of mental gymnastics constantly to bring me backto that place, because the show doesn’t care enough to do it for us. and it’sannoying. because i do think they could make her story so compelling if theywanted to.

but ultimately they wouldn’t, because robert is in many ways avillain in her story and the story they want to tell is more robert being avillain in his own story (and again, that’s another post all on its own).they’re not telling rebecca’s story. not at all.

anyway! basically. female character essentially being the toolthe show uses to explore male character robert and his relationships. great. gr e a t.

and because what’s the point in making big sweeping contentiousstatements if you can’t back them up:

so the big thing the show has tried to drill into our headsrepeatedly is that robert was with chrissie for her money and her power,largely. he loved her in his own way, but he loved himself way more. he flirtedhis way up the company through lawrence, exploiting lawrence’s complicatedfeelings about his own sexuality and attraction to robert (see: the iconicscene close to the beginning of ryan!robert’s introduction where he saysexactly that to larry and suddenly we are given a window into why exactlylawrence hates robert so vehemently, to the point of faking a heart attack tostop his first attempt to marry chrissie). saw an opening and got with chrissieand then rebecca and then eventually chose chrissie, who undoubtedly has moreof a pull in the running of the company and more access to the money, as opposedto free-spirited rebecca, who we’ve seen is not at all competent at working inthe business and has very little overall experience with it.

we see robert repeatedly reaping the benefits of the whites’money and power - and the position that we know he is in fact very good at,thereby earning his own money on top of that (but again - in a position hefasttracked his way to via chrissie and lawrence).

anyways (you already know this is gonna be long af bc look howmuch im rambling) we see, particularly in the argument after chrissie finds outabout the home farm robbery and his reaction to almost dropping the cheque shegives him - and really everything robert does in that break up with chrissie,when he’s desperate to get his old life back, that robert ultimately cares moreabout the money than he does about his wife.

fast forward to robert post-coma, post-redemption arc and nowfully committed to being in a relationship with aaron. he still loves money andfights hard to make as much of it as possible, usually still somehow at theexpense of the whites, but we as an audience don’t have any solid proof thatrobert really cares more about aaron than he does about his og love, money.

we’ll come back to this in asecond, but the other thing we see in robert’s relationship with chrissie isthat he never exactly had any compunction to remain faithful to her. he says to aaronearly on (in the barn) that he has had a bunch of one night stands, but neveranything beyond that, which is the first indication to the audience that somehowaaron is different for robert. we later learn that he did in fact also sleepwith rebecca multiple times. according to robert, it was all before he andchrissie got serious, whatever that means in rob’s mind , at which pointhe stopped, although we also know that he and rebecca had sex at rob andchrissie’s engagement party (side note, my best guess - that was the last time they slepttogether and also when he knocked her up the first time).

anyways, outside of rebecca and later, aaron, robert had alsohad a bunch of one night stands and just… generally couldn’t keep it in hispants.

again, robert and aaron later become a real couple, long afterhe and chrissie are over for the last time and robert doesn’t seem to beinterested in anyone else (at all, he basically puts his life on hold tosupport aaron throughout the first part of 2016). but - equally, he’s never putin a situation where he’s had the chance.

bringing this back to rebecca - one of the first things she doesis show that she is working with robert to take down chrissie - she’s angry atchrissie for not telling her about lawrence getting shot, or anything that’sbeen going on (and - it’s chrissie that she wants to hurt, not larry or lucky,so we’re once again treated to two girls treating each other like shit for abit, joy of joys) and she wants to help robert get chrissie her comeuppance andalso protect her inheritance. robert brought her in and robert is the onlycharacter she’s not lying to, when she first comes to the village. her sceneswith her family all have the undertone of the fact that she is doing thisbecause robert convinced her to - it’s all about robert’s revenge, narrativelyspeaking.

to bring back my earlier points about robert’s love of money andinfidelity, a lot of her early scenes exist to set the stage for robertproposing in ssw and to show the audience that rob has, in fact, changed - sheoffers him all of home farm, all of that power back, and he says no. she triesto sleep with him repeatedly and he turns her down again and again.

and this pattern continues - she keeps pushing him and he flirtsback, kisses her even - his stupid way of keeping her inside so that they caneventually clear andy’s name, as he says to her when he finally shuts her downonce and for all outside the courthouse. the lines he says to her repeatedlyare things about how important aaron is to him - the show starts to build upthis picture that aaron is special to robert, but also robert is still hisrobert sugden-y self and isn’t above doing stupid things or pushing his stupidplans too far in order to get his way.

like. god i’m not going to list them all THIS IS LONG AND EXTRA TM ENOUGH but there are literallygifsets that exist of all the ways robert proclaims his love for aaron torebecca. so much of their scenes are used to both strengthen our knowledge ofhow much robert loves aaron and also to sow those seeds that robert does stupidand reckless things at the expense of that relationship sometimes - that heloves aaron but he sure as hell also loves money too.

but - again - in the narrative, we’ve been shown repeatedly thatwhen push comes to shove, robert always chooses aaron, that he doesn’t have anydesire to be unfaithful to aaron and he won’t choose money over hisrelationship. even when he was unfaithful, it was basically the product of an emotional breakdown as opposed to his apparent motivation of eh this person is hot and i’m bored why not when he was with chrissie.

and rebecca is the tool that leads the show to show us that so so often.similarly, rebecca is the catalyst for aaron’s jealousy and his eventual prisonstoryline.

everything since her entrance has slowly allowed the show tobuild up to aaron and robert breaking up. every one of their storylines hastied into that, or somehow been driven by her presence. every single one. andthe thing is… it’s nothing to do with who she even is - beyond that initialmanipulative streak she had which has disappeared entirely, it seems.

i know i’ve spoken a lot about her lack of agency as acharacter (and... just about her in general... here here here here here here here here and here are some casual examples... jfc...), so i don’t want to rehash that aspect but… it is more than that,isn’t it? it’s not just her lack of agency - it’s that, while she is absolutelyCRUCIAL to everything that has happened to robert and aaron and the constantcatalyst for every bad decision they’ve made, to showing us the ways thatthey’re not working, it’s not about who she is. who she is is irrelevant. theonly thing she ever needed to be was in love with robert and passive enough tokeep getting pulled back into his orbit and to help him do his bidding,regardless of how he has treated her. she never needed to be more than that andshe really… isn’t, in all honesty. again, i spoke earlier this week about herlack of core characteristics and that plays into that. more than that, eventhough she is the character that has been driving robert and aaron into Troublewith a capital T over and over, none of it has ever really been about her.

mostly - mostly it’s been about showcasing problems that alreadyexisted between them, working towards potentially resolving those issues, or atleast highlighting that they exist.

one argument to the above - recently it has become more abouther in the sense that aaron says that robert sleeping with rebecca inparticular, as his ex and as the catalyst for aaron’s initial jealousy - androbert being tied to her in particular with a baby, was so much more painfuland untenable to him than it might have been, had rob instead slept with arandom.

(it would never have been a random though because as the showtold us, even robert and rebecca sleeping together wasn’t about rebecca - itwas about robert in pain and wanting to hurt aaron. rebecca was an easy targetfor robert - the only thing she needed to be, in that episode, was desperatelyin love with robert enough to ignore any moral compunction she initially had tonot sleep with an emotionally destroyed dude who was married to someone sheproclaimed to like, which she was).

again - it always, always comes down to aaron and in particular,robert. and MORE THAN THAT, we now have robert on screen, being shown in apretty sympathetic light (for rob), in agony over the loss of aaron, once againallowing robert to show character development, to show his absurd love foraaron. and getting into spoiler territory, we know he’s going to get pulledback into the white orbit in a particularly 2015, pre aaron’s good influenceway - something made particularly possible by this brand new unshakeable bondto the whites through his son, who is currently chilling inside rebecca

(although you would never know if from her outfits)

none of rebecca’s story has been about rebecca. she’s pregnantand they haven’t even shown that really - not much beyond the fact that herfamily are supportive and the ways in which it has affected aaron and robert.

she just. she exists for robert and aaron and their story.possibly also the end of the whites, but that’s to be seen. that’s it. andthat… kind is really offensive.

or at least, it’s just writing that is very careless towards afemale character - something which is incredibly prevalent across the show as awhole, but particularly irksome here because this is the storyline we reallycare about lmfao